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NBA Draft's Big Men as Rebounders

Yesterday, I linked over to my graph and column regarding this season's big men prospects on offense. Grading defense at the college level is nearly impossible. But rebounding is assessable. So here's a graph showing the top big man prospects as well as top prospects from the past two years who made the NBA. The x axis show offensive rebounding (further to the right is better) and the y axis shows defensive rebounding (higher is better). This is not adjusted for the size or strength of the opponent, but by virtue of being rebound rate it is adjusted for pace.

Bigmen-reb-tz-560px_medium 

(Click to enlarge. TWSS.)

DeMarcus Cousins is second only to Duke mammoth Brian Zoubek among draft-eligible players on the offensive glass. Look at Cousins, now look at Jon Brockman. Now look at Cousins again. Seriously?

Cousins ranks just below Greg Monroe and Cole Aldrich in defensive rebounding. The contrast in the Cousins-Patrick Patterson and Derrick Favors-Gani Lawal relationships is interesting, both here and on offense. Cousins' superlative scoring and rebounding made the more experienced Patterson a role player. Lawal, though, ranks better than Favors on both offense and rebounding. Yet Patterson is higher than Lawal on nearly every draft board you can find, and Favors will likely go ahead of Cousins. I know defense and attitude plays a significant role in Favors-Cousins, but it's still interesting to me how this has shaken out.

And yes, I'm closer to "in the tank for Cousins" every day that passes.

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GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel

by iashwash on May 27, 2010 7:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Cousins

His attitude has not kept him from rebounding yet.

by mayfieldcol on May 27, 2010 8:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Let me be perfectly candid:

I’m not nearly smart enough to understand most of these charts.

But the colors is purty.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on May 27, 2010 8:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks for the bucket of cold water!

You’re probably right though!

David Stern: “With the 5th pick of the 2010 NBA draft, the Sacramento Kings select…someone other than DeMarcus Cousins.”

Me: “Damn you Aykis!!”

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by outrider on May 27, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Rec'd

I for one am looking forward to the Petrie rollercoaster. “I am trapped in a glass cage of emotion!!!!”

by Citadel 29 on May 27, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Why not?

You think they’re going to find a way of rotating Love Jefferson and Cousins while maintaining one of the worst swingman core in basketball?

by Josh L on May 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

Minny isnt taking him.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on May 27, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it would almost be as nonsensical as drafting two point guards back to back with the #5 and #6 picks.

Wait… ruh-roh…

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 27, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe BP could be right

The fact that Kahn took two PG’s in a row last year, tells me that their collecting assets, and aren’t concerned about fit. Rubio is the big key but he won’t be here for another year. Minny could take Cousins and experiment for another year with how he fits. Does he work better with Love of Jefferson? Then the following year, they probably have another top lottory pick, and some nice players to trade to get a top SG.

They also have $20M in cap space this season to pick up talent. Remember as bad as they were this year, they still averaged over 15K fans per game, which is 2K more than the Kings.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's also someone knew who may influence who Kahn takes.

I forget his name off the top of my head, but he was just hired to replace Fred Hoiberg in scouting. The guy is from Indiana.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

someone new^

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

the guy with the Sopranos Used Car Salesman name

Tony Ronzone. Great name. The guy’s got to think Khan is stugats

by betweentheeyes on May 27, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

one thing though

Minny loses their draft pick next year. Have a feeling Khan might bow to pressure and actually attempt to field a team, not just assets.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 27, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Technically it's only if Minny doesn't have a top 10 pick

They lose it regardless of spot in 2012 to LA though.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh

Thought that happened in 2011. Nevermind, NEXT year after this one they will probably actually try and field a team.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 27, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarifaction, Pook

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

For those who need proof.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I had to bet money on an early second round sleeper

I would pick Kenneth Faried.

He kinda seems like the guy everyone thinks Aminu will be. He is just a couple years older already, and thus has less upside, and played at a small school in a weak conference. But the ACC was pretty weak this year as well.
In the mode of hustling rebounding specialists like Brockman for our second round picks, I vote Kenneth Faried for the 33rd pick.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 8:12 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I'm with you on Cousins TZ

Don’t know much about his passing skills, but if they are at least serviceable, he could be even more valuable.

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by outrider on May 27, 2010 8:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Is Robin Lopez a poor def. rebounder in the NBA?

Or were his numbers low from playing next to his brother?

by sdfd on May 27, 2010 8:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Does anyone know...

Who Hill and Garcia are here?

Is that Grant Hill and Cisco Garcia?

Are they here to show is who the real big men are?

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 8:21 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Jordan Hill (from Arizona)

And Charles Garcia (from Seattle)

by nbrans on May 27, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol I knew that

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 8:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I thought it was Sean Hill and Jeff Garcia!

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on May 30, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've been in the tank for Cousins

and I’m staying right here!

#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"

by vfettke on May 27, 2010 8:31 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm wondering...

are any of you aware of any big men who have overcome similar concerns over conditioning and/or attitude early in their careers and become all-star caliber players?

Dont get me wrong, Cousins is very effective, regardless of his conditioning and attitude. I’m just wondering if there is a positive precedent for this young fella.

by DustyG on May 27, 2010 8:36 AM PDT reply actions  

Umm... Shaq?

Shaq’s always had pretty questionable conditioning and has been known to play himself into shape during the season. He’s also a jokester with a pretty jovial attitude in general. Some may consider this immature.

#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"

by vfettke on May 27, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno about shaq

I don’t recall many questions about his conditioning. I could be wrong but I do seem to recall his body fat %s to be ridiculously low when he came into the league.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 27, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was a gradual thing

#vfettkefordraft
"The Kings will get a top 3 pick in the 2010 draft. Book it!"

by vfettke on May 27, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, I remember he was huge, but it was all muscle

I wish I could find some proof, but I remember his body fat % was something crazy for someone so huge, like 3% or something.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 9:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

12%

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on May 27, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

when he was a rookie?

where did you get that number?

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 27, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Looking at that chart

Cousins looks comparable to Brendan Haywood as far as measurements and athleticism.

by kingsfan300 on May 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

How are you judging athleticism based on that chart?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seems a little limited in it's scoop for a guy that's nearly 300 lbs.

how does his sprint speed and agility numbers compare to the bigger centers in the league?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Verticals

As far as the results, you can find it here (count me as one of those folks that dislikes NBAdraft.net, but at least they have the athletic results up) .

As far as Cousins’ agility and sprint numbers, they came out to 11.4 and 3.55, respectively.

In comparison to other big men, he ranked above Brook Lopez, Tyson Chandler, Emeka Okafor, Andrew Bogut and Joakim Noah in agility numbers. In his sprint numbers, he ranked only above Brook Lopez, Desagana Diop, and Sheldon Williams.

by kingsfan300 on May 27, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup

My first thought too

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on May 27, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup #2

Should also be mentioned that Webber didn’t do much for his first team nor really his second team.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think Cousins, with all the bad stuf, can very well become an all star in this league, just worried it won’t be until he gets traded around a bit.

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 27, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most guys DO grow up

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on May 28, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Z-Bo

attitude problem. light seemed to come on in memphis last yr, a few teams removed from the one that drafted him.

by fire_voisin on May 27, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Til yesterday that is...

"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11

by Sacto_J on May 27, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Um... Charles Barkley?

He was always a little chubby. But he had insane leaping ability when he was younger, regardless, and long arms that let him play bigger than what he actually was.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 8:54 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

and he has small hands. Good Point. the guy was chubby.

by Beer_man on Jun 5, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rasheed Wallace

He isn’t fat, but he has never been in great shape, and you would be hard pressed to find a bigger head case.

But when he wanted to win, he was extremely dangerous.

I think Cousins might be a little mix of Rasheed with a bit of Barkley’s Alabama charm.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 8:59 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes, he has some major issues

But Stoudemire is up their with LeBron in athletic ability.

Cousins is no where near that.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 10:09 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Patterson's stats from last year …

… may be more representative. He had 9.3 rebounds a game, difficult to get more with the Cousins behemoth (and even Orton) standing in his way.

by MC_Welk on May 27, 2010 9:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Can we get a graph that shows all the potential lottery picks?

Maybe one like this with rebounding, one with TS% and usage rate or something like that?

Some of the players that might be considered at the 5 spot like Johnson, Aminu, and Henry are not bad rebounders.

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 9:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Are you going to completely ignore the fact that Cousins eats kittens and refuses to recognize the State of Israel?

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 27, 2010 9:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Whoa, SD

I think some of the more unseemly characters around here are rubbing off on you!

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 27, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just couldn't help myself.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haha!

Usually I can tell your posts just from the writing style…not this time, damn.

by lead_pipe on May 27, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right when you thought you had me figured out...

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Either way, he is clearly unfit to represent any organization with any degree of pride and decency.

Whatever team drafts this monster is going to forever regret the day they did.

Anyone think David Kahn reads StR?

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 27, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can he read?

I kid. I’m a kidder.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on May 27, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No TZ!!!!

We need you to write about how great Monroe is (and anybody else) and how much of headcase Cousins is, how fat and out of shape, and how much of a lockerroom disaster he would be for teams.

We need the groupthink-driven sports media to hype Cousins as the second coming of Satan so that he drops to the #5 and we can get him.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on May 27, 2010 10:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Ditto.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget about Cousins' cocaine habit.

Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl

by Viliphied on May 27, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cousins is Roy Tarpley, Oliver Miller AND Shaq rolled into one?

We must get him now! I’m totally on board with Cousins!!!!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

No wonder he's so fat, that a lot of rollin

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I Doubt It

I don’t think that the teams ahead of us will pass on Cousins. They see charts like this and they know how big of a stud this guy could be. All he has to do is keep his personality in check. That could be a problem though. I think it’s one of the things that is keeping Beasley from attaining his potential. His work ethic. Statistically, Cousins is a beast. So was Beasley in college. The difference between the two is huge though. Three inches. 6’8" to 6’11". Cousins should be a force on the glass and in the paint on both ends.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on May 27, 2010 11:10 AM PDT reply actions  

But

Isn’t Cousins the second coming of Ron-Ron? Isn’t that the concern that some teams will have about him?

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on May 27, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think so. There is the concern that he could hurt somebody.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

If he drops to the 5th pick

I would totally take a chance on him. Unless he really is a BAD interviewer I would take the risk on him. If the Kings had a 1-3 pick, I might not but at #5, there are no “sure things” in this draft. Why not take a chance on a guy who could be an perennial all-star?

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on May 27, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

the concern that he could hurt somebody is one of his positives

I think Petrie and PW are on the same page with this one, they want someone whose can be an enforcer in the paint, and Cousins is the BPA for that role. My question is weather PW can handle the DMC tude (it seems like he couldn’t handle Dorsey). My solution: draft Cousins, then call up Worldwide Wes and get Coach Cal on the Kings staff. Move PW up to the front office and Calipari—a father figure to Reke, Cousins, and half of next year’s rookie/soph all-star game rosters—to the head coaching spot. Tyreke+Cousins+Calipari+Uncle Wes=I can get over losing Kayte.

by basketball galactica on May 27, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

by hurt someone

they meant like actually full on getting into a fight because of his temper

Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?

by wallywagon11 on May 28, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

No telling with these GM's..

Look at how much of an outlier Blair was on the Offensive Glass. But perceived knee issues made him toxic in last year’s draft. It’s concievable that the head case stigma surrounding Cousin’s could make him slide to five and beyond.

"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson..."

by Olberdingleberry on May 28, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope

that we can land Cousins. Instant upgrade in the frontcourt. If he isn’t available, we could assume that either Favors, Johnson, or Turner will have slipped as I just don’t see anybody else sneaking into the top 5. This could be favorable as I believe Johnson would be an excellent fit with ‘Reke, and would rather see this than to see us reach for a big and take Monroe (or anyone other available big) with the 5th pick. There’s enough bigs in this draft where you can possibly trade down for another pick or pick the best available big in the 2nd, where there are still plenty of options. I’m crossing my fingers for Cousins, but think Wesley Johnson would make a balanced addition. But for God’s sake we don’t need to reach for a big. After Favors / Cousins, there’s just not enough to merit the reach (In my humble opinion…)

"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11

by Sacto_J on May 27, 2010 11:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Go ahead and jump in the tank TZ

I’m waiting down at the bottom. Everyone knows I want some serious size – that nothing helps a playoff run more than being able to just wear down your opponent and score easy baskets inside when jumpshots stop falling.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on May 27, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm curious - thinking about Oden

are there any past injury red flags anyone is aware of?

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on May 27, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

No but Cousins isn't 47 either like Oden.

The Sacramento Convergence concept offers Sacramento, the Central Valley, and the State a solution to feasibly construct a new multi-use Entertainment and Sports Complex.

by jjham15 on May 27, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The biggest red flag about Oden was that his left leg is shorter than his right leg....

…but that’s not unheard of in players at Oden’s size. He had a wrist injury at OSU, but I’m not sure how that effects Oden’s knees at all.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh! A wrist injury could most definitely affect a players knees by a process known as

osteo-callosum-transfer, whereby neurons from the injured wrist send messages through the corpus-callosum, which can send messages by way of the central nervous system to interfere with bone production at the knee.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Rec'd for scientific sounding smart-ass bull-shitting.

"Seriously guys, why are they pissed off? Because of the rape... are you sure? That doesn't add up." - Daniel Tosh on Kobe Bryant

by Ice_9ine on May 27, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 27, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait! Are you calling me smart-ass?

Scientific bull-shitting is one thing, but smart-ass bull-shitting is another? I am offended!

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 28, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd as well.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Damn, I was hoping you would fall into the sar-chasm.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 28, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

You've certainly always been a fan of size, LTTG. There's no denying that.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 27, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

The wife too

(maybe after I’m gone . . . .)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on May 28, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just curious

How does Cousins compare to Thabeeeet on the LTTG “I heart Big Men” meter?

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on May 27, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he's more 'all around' ready

I still think Thabeet could end up as one the league’s best defensive big men.

Thabeet had no charactor red flags, everyone says he’s the nicest guy in the world – so it’s different there as well.

I’m not quite as crazy, insanely desperate for interior defense as I was this time last year – though I still think its one of the biggest pieces to a championship team and if you have a chance to add it you can’t hesitate over a 19 yr old (who’s never actually been in trouble – important point) acting like a teenager sometimes.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on May 28, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was an idiot at 19 yrs old - straight up

These kids have their heads on better than I did in order to be competing like they are doing.

I don’t think Cousins will scare GP or PW unless they interview him and he comes across as a punk… I think they look at talent and see if they have a decent human being. Tyreke came with baggage that still comes up now and again.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on May 28, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hear Ya' Stang

Simply calling me an idiot at 19 would have been an insult to idiots everywhere……If you were to throw that kind of money at me when I was 19, I probably would have been dead before hitting 23.

"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson..."

by Olberdingleberry on May 29, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm confused at how this correlates with how they translate in the NBA

I look at the guys already in the NBA who are higher, and I don’t see many very successful stars. Guys like Thompson, Brockman, Spreights, Hill, & Beasley all seem to be successful in college, but none would be considered stars in the Pros. While the Lopez brothers chart very poorly, but are having good careers as starters in the NBA.

Really, from looking at the chart the only player doing well in the NBA that shouldn’t be a surprise is Blair. So, considering all the concern about his knees, from looking at the chart I don’t understand how all 30 teams passed on him in the 1st round.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 3:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Brockman is a very successful rebounder in the NBA

This chart is referring only to players’ rebounding ability.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on May 27, 2010 3:08 PM PDT reply actions  

(reply to HighTops)

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on May 27, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't say they weren't successful, only that they weren't stars,

While Brockman is a fine player, he will never be a starter in the NBA. And, the long term future as a starter for the other 4 players I mentioned is still in question. Furthermore, I suspect that the purpose of the chart was to help decide who we should take with the 5th pick in the draft. And, with that pick, I assume we would all like a star. So, does the chart really help us make that decision? I don’t know, that’s why I brought up the Lopez brothers. I don’t believe that anybody on this blog would pass up taking Brook Lopez over anyone else on the chart. Yet, he has one of worst scores on the chart.

So, I’m still confused about how their college stats translate to the NBA. And, what part of their success is due to the teams they end up on?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 27, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Easiest pick ever

Drafting fifth in a five-man draft means zero risk. Just let the first four teams do all the guesswork, then take the remaining stud. if you don’t like that guy, trade him for more draft picks (OKC has three first rounders), or veterans (Philly is shopping Dre-I and Dalembert).

by basketball galactica on May 27, 2010 4:58 PM PDT reply actions  

it's that easy

the experts tell us it’s a 5-man draft, and Aminu, Aldrich, etc. are clearly a notch below the Top 5 … so unless you can trade down for value, it makes the most sense to take whoever’s left. And like I wrote on another thread, it’s hard to argue that Favors has more upside than Cousins in terms of talent, so I’d be happy to roll the dice on Cousins at #5 knowing that he might easily be the 2nd best player in this draft. And Johnson is probably a better fit alongside ‘Reke than is Turner, so I’d be happy with him also.

by Watty4ever on May 27, 2010 5:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Here is to hoping that Cousin falls to #5 and....

Lawal falls to #33. Now wouldn’t we all be happy with that draft……

by Fredman on May 28, 2010 10:31 AM PDT reply actions  

If we get Cousins at #5, I'm hoping for a guard at #33 that can shoot and defend.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 28, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

not many 2 guards in this draft that interest me

and free agency isn’t deep either. Joe Johnson (too much $$$), Ray Allen (isn’t leaving Boston) and Rudy Gay (restricted FA)…maybe Kyle Korver.

by Fredman on May 29, 2010 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like Korver's shooting, but not his defense.

"Seriously guys, why are they pissed off? Because of the rape... are you sure? That doesn't add up." - Daniel Tosh on Kobe Bryant

by Ice_9ine on May 31, 2010 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are asking for a lot at the 33. The talent pool seems to drop markedly after the 10 spot.

I am just hoping that we get someone who is not just crap.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 29, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's reasonable to hope that someone will be there at #33 that can contribute.

Obviously, no one that is considered a “total package” is likely to be there, but what about the PG from Syracuse, for example (Rautins)? Apparently he shot the lights out at the combine, and I believe Petrie interviewed him there as well. Maybe he can be a serviceable defender and maybe not, but I think there will be enough talent on the board and we have such a need for guard depth that there should be someone worth taking a chance on and feeling pretty good about.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on May 29, 2010 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope there will be someone left at that spot that can contribute something for us.

If any one can sift through the players remaining at this point, it is Petrie and his brain trust. I wasn’t familiar with Rautins, but looked him up. He has an average or 12 points per game and 40.7 3-point shooting average. We could certainly use someone who can hit some 3-point shots.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 29, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

But, will PW play anyone who doesn't play decent defense,

unless he has too. Ime got a lot of playing time but was the 2nd worst 3-pt shooter on the team. I think anyone we pick up at 33 is going to have to be a good defender first and a 3 pt shooter 2nd.

In fact, I can see the Kings going big again at 33. I don’t see PW or GP being hot to pick up another rookie guard. I don’t imagine they would have the talent to take much playing time from the 3 guards we already have.

If we don’t get Johnson, I think the best plan is to go with the Beno & Tyreke backcourt to start, and pick up a FA PG to play along with Cisco. And, be a backup in case of illness or do I dare say unfortunate circumstances. It’s just with Beno & Tyreke getting major starting minutes, and Cisco already a fine backup at the 2, defensively and shooting the long ball for at a good percentage, I don’t think we need another backup 2, starter maybe but not backup. Plus Donte and Omri filled in adequately last season.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 29, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

well said, HT

I can’t quote stats or manufacture eye catching charts with well presented statistics (I would bet Ziller gets a gleam in his eye for your work HT) but in my acendotal view, this team won’t advance in the win department unless they increase their possessions and limit the other teams production. The Kings are going to score but outscore very few a lâ Suns/Warriors. With Mr. Evans at the helm they are more of a drive and kick or pass around the arc (it isn’t a 3 point circle why do we call it that?) type of team, as you have shown that means more effective outside shooting. I would love to see Udoka improve his shooting but at this point in his career that is more hope than expectation.

Until that changes (and it should to take better advantage of Landry’s low post game) the Kings need rebounds, lane cloggers and ball stoppers, as they haven’t seem to implement an effective lane collapse defense – yet..

Brockman nees to improve his offense to see the floor more. If he can be a 6 & 6 guy for 12 minutes a game he would be a wonderful role player.If not, than an athletic lane clogger/shot blocker/defender (Varnado? Brackins?) would be a good way to go. If that type of player is not available than drafting an instant offense guard would be second best. The Garrett Temple, Desmond Mason, Ime Udoka, Dominic McGuire types have been tried with little success.

by betweentheeyes on May 29, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with Brackins and Varnado, with the 33 pick.

Although it could mean the end of PT for Brockman if we take a big at 5.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 29, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Love Varnado in the second round.

Makes for a very interesting bench with an offensive rebounding specialist like Brockman and a block specialist like Varnado.

That is, if they sign Brockman back.

"Seriously guys, why are they pissed off? Because of the rape... are you sure? That doesn't add up." - Daniel Tosh on Kobe Bryant

by Ice_9ine on May 31, 2010 5:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is an arc because it is only a piece of a circle.

"Seriously guys, why are they pissed off? Because of the rape... are you sure? That doesn't add up." - Daniel Tosh on Kobe Bryant

by Ice_9ine on May 31, 2010 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good arguments all around.

You are probably right about PW not playing anyone who doesn’t play good defense, since that has been a major focal point. So, there probably will be more emphasis on selecting a good defender. It could be somewhat dependent upon who they get at the 5th pick. If they get Cousins, then the defense priority may not be as high. If the select Wesley Johnson, the defense is going to be very important.

I am in agreement with you about the plan to go with Beno and Tyreke backcourt, and if they don’t get Johnson, to pick up a FA PG.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 29, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed and if they do pick up Johnson they most certainly won't be taking another guard at 33.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on May 30, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. They definetely won't.

To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.

by Slam_Dunk on May 30, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

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