This is How You Remind Me, 2010 Edition
by Exhibit G on May 3, 2010 10:37 AM PDT
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PrintLast year I did a quick article on who different draft prospects reminded me of. Looking back on that article, I think I did pretty well overall. Three calls were tough to judge: Rubio, Griffin, and Monroe. Tough to judge my Rubio call since he hasn't come over to the NBA, and you could easily argue that Tyreke Evans (noticeably absent from last year's post) will be the best guard from last year's draft class. Also tough to make a call on Blake Griffin, since I apparently should have compared him to Greg Oden. And, of course, Monroe opted for another year in college.
Since I didn't completely crash and burn, I figured I'd give it another go for this year's prospective draft class, in accordance with my motto of "if at first you don't fail miserably, keep going until your luck runs out". My simplistic observations after the jump.
Similar to last year's installment, this is not making comparisons to styles of play. This is a comparison of how players are perceived in light of the draft. Since the Kings are assured a top 6 pick, I'll review the players who will be in play for the top 6 picks, along with a bonus thought on Greg Monroe (who probably won't be top 6 in any mock drafts, let alone the actual draft).
John Wall
John Wall reminds me in some ways of Michael Beasley. Beasley was considered the hands-down Number 1 pick during his season at Kansas State, only to have the Bulls snag Derrick Rose at the last second due to questions about focus and work ethic. Let me first say that I would be stunned, absolutely stunned, if Wall doesn't go first overall in the upcoming draft. But I think he could be one of those "can't miss" prospects who might not end up as good as advertised. Wall could easily turn out to be the amazing talent that everyone expects him to be, and I would be delighted if the Kings lucked into the first pick this year. But there's just enough of a question lingering in the back of my mind, and I can't fully explain it.
Evan Turner
I really think Turner has a chance to end up as the best player from this draft. He reminds me of Kevin Durant's college and draft situation. Everyone figured Oden would be the number 1 pick all season long, despite Durant leading an upstart Texas team to a really solid season. At this point, even an Oden defender would struggle to tell you that Durant didn't deserve that first overall pick, but such is life. Wall will probably still be the number 1 pick, but Turner could turn into something special. All of that being said, I feel the need to reiterate that I am comparing the situation, not Turner's potential ceiling compared to Durant.
Derrick Favors
Favors reminds my of our very own Tyreke Evans. A lot of people were high on Evans as he was coming out of Memphis, but I didn't get it. I hadn't seen Evans play very much, and I just wasn't convinced. I feel the same way with Favors. A lot of folks are really high on Favors right now, but I didn't see a lot of him. It's seems like he's been good, but I can't tell you much about him.
DeMarcus Cousins
Everyone goes with Derrick Coleman because they play a similar game, but both have questions about work ethic. To me, Cousins is a dozen other players who came into the league with question marks. I have no idea if he'll be successful or not. Personally, I tend to be wary of players who have questionable work ethic before they become millionaires.
Wesley Johnson
Johnson reminds me a lot of fellow 'Cuse alum Jonny Flynn. Flynn will be a solid NBA player, but was probably taken a bit too high. I think it has a lot to do with Syracuse being right in the heart of the East-Coast Bias. Not every player from Syracuse is going to be amazing. I still think Johnson can be solid, but I'm not completely sold. But I'm an idiot, so he's probably the next 'Melo.
Al-Farouq Aminu
Aminu remind me of Jeff Green. Coming out of Georgetown, I knew basically nothing about Green. I hadn't heard a lot about him, but suddenly he was being considered worthy of a high pick. I've heard almost nothing about Aminu. This doesn't mean he'll be successful like Green, it just means that I can't really make any other type of prediction. It also means I should probably watch more college hoops.
Cole Aldrich
Aldrich reminds me of J.J. Redick. Very solid player, high basketball IQ, but he's probably not going to grow a ton more as a player. You know what you'll get, and you'll get a solid contributor, but he's not going to turn into the next Dwight Howard.
Greg Monroe
Here's what I said about Monroe last year:
Greg Monroe - Monroe reminds me of Kevin Love. In case you're not picking up on a theme, I'm not necessarily talking about specific skill sets. Kevin Love was knocked with the "not big enough" label, and Monroe is quickly going the same route.
My goodness, another year proving his skills, and yet the same criticisms remain. I still believe the Love comparisons. "Not big enough" seems to be getting replaced with "not athletic enough" or "not driven enough", but I think the comparison still works. Remember hearing about Love running like a duck? Hasn't stopped him from having a productive NBA career. I think Monroe will be a very solid, and possibly a very, very good NBA player.
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found the article a little light...
liked the idea of your article, however I didn’t really get any more insight or opinion one way or another on most of the players profiled. I was intrigued by your assertion that Wall may not be all that is advertised once he hits the NBA. However, you didn’t back up your feeling with any…well anything. Other then Cousins having flags due to possible work ethic, it seems like you just stated that you really didn’t know much about each individual player. If you don’t know about them, do some research and formulate your opinion or just don’t write about them. this posting needs a part two with more substance.
by gaindeyouth on May 3, 2010 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Read the first line again
This article is all about how G sees these guys so far. If you want a concise breakdown with facts and figures, go see Chad Ford. This is just some light predictions and opinions…
by Rickyflip on May 3, 2010 11:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly. But it's fair criticism
I probably should have included the intro from last year’s article instead of just the link. The whole premise of this is that I don’t delve deep into college hoops, and I’m not going to get bogged down by over analyzing everything trying to find a stat to back up my impression. Every year people over-analyze prospects and convince themselves of a player’s potential. I wanted to do the opposite.
These are impressions, nothing more. The article is meant to start discussions.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
I Resemble (not resent) that Remark
“Every year people over-analyze prospects and convince themselves of a player’s potential”
Yah, I wonder who does that on this blog every year?? :-)
I enjoyed the article E. I think that you are fairly right on. I also don’t see Wall being quite as good as the astronomical hype he has but he should be a fantastic player all the same. Evan Turner looks very impressive. Your feelings seem very close to what I feel and I AM a stat guy and follow these players closely.
Very odd.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Funny thing
I’m not great with statistical analysis, but I actually value it more than what I see with my eyes. Personally I think we need a balance of visual impressions as well as statistical analysis.
I do a preview like this each year (2 years in a row now for this site). It started when I got pissed that the Hawks were going to take Marvin Williams instead of Chris Paul. I thought it was absolute lunacy.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Can't wait for your new rankings.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Seconded
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 4, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems to me
you made some prescient comments about Tyreke last year that pretty much panned out.
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
I wasn’t suggesting that the article needed absolute facts or nothin. just some backing of opinion is all. i was intrigued about the ideas expressed about wall. Seemed like a stance that is/has not often been seen and I was interested to flush it out some. as for the just getting the discussion started,…well it seems to me that it has been ongoing pretty strong for quite some time. actually, i found the opinions expressed interesting, just looking for a little more substance to go along with em.
More
When Beasley was at Kansas State, everyone touted his ability to score seemingly at will. He was the clear leader on the team, and took the team into the tourney. I’m too lazy to look, but I think they made it to the 2nd or 3rd round if I recall correctly.
At the time, I didn’t know why I didn’t like Beasley, but I wasn’t sold on him. Beasley is still a capable scorer at times, but there are too many other holes in his game and he’s struggled at the NBA level.
With Wall, he’s clearly an amazing athlete. And at time he shows flashes of absolute brilliance. I feel like people are looking at his athleticism and being blinded to the development that he still needs. Everyone is touting him as the surest number 1 since LeBron. Well, everyone said that about Greg Oden too. At the start of every NCAA season, we’re in a huge rush to anoint the next #1 pick. We’ve been talking about John Wall since last year’s draft. He was considered the front-runner since before he played his first college game.
I think the flashes of brilliance and athleticism are overshadowing the weaknesses. LeBron was ready for the NBA right away. I don’t know that Wall truly is. I think he’ll struggle. This isn’t to say that he won’t eventually be really good or even great. But I think everyone is grasping at potential.
Personally, I felt that was all a little too long-winded for the nature of this post, but I hope that helps.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
I agree, I don't think your comparison makes any sense
I can understand your just voicing a hunch, but if you can’t back it up in any way and most evidence points the other direction, how does it make any sense?
Because you think he may struggle early on in his career, that reminds you of Beasley? Most players don’t become superstars their rookie year, as evidenced by the fact that Evans joined a group containing only a handful of players that had averaged 20/5/5 as a rookie. Most guys show flashes early on, but need time to develop. Most point guards are more like a Deron Williams with 11/4.5 as a rookie that take time to develop.
The concerns with Beasley coming out of the draft were surrounding his immaturity, too-jovial-not-serious-enough nature, and questions about his work ethic. Then almost right out of the gate after being drafted he gets caught in a room with a couple other guys with weed, backing up why those concerns were justified.
How many negative stories have you heard about Wall’s work ethic, leadership, or seriousness? How about a write-up from draftexpress about the 2009 nike hoop summit, an all-star game that he could be forgiven for not giving 100% to:
It was very positive to see leadership and intensity from John Wall during the practices, in a setting where many of his teammates didn’t appear to be taking the experience so seriously. The representatives from Nike had very positive comments about him outside of the practices as well, which can only be viewed as good news considering he has been labeled as being a bit immature in the past.
That is what separates him from many other highly-touted prospects that end up busts. He has shown a clear track record of work ethic, passion, and leadership. Does it guarantee he will be a superstar? Of course not, but it means the risk factor is lessened.
Whoa
Let’s slow down, here.
I didn’t like Beasley, and the same sort of hunch is how I feel about Wall. There’s a hesitation. That’s where the comparisons end. This article is not comparing styles of play, and its not a comparison of personalities. It’s a contrast of draft situations and my opinions.
As for this:
if you can’t back it up in any way and most evidence points the other direction, how does it make any sense?
It makes sense because there is no “most evidence” that you refer to. This very statement of yours supports my notion that I feel like most people are blinded to Wall’s faults. That’s the point.
Once again, I’m not questioning Wall’s work ethic, seriousness, or leadership.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
First off
It is a sign of intelligence not to throw out a bunch of baseless opinions and formless conclusions if you recognize you have not done due diligence to offer a point of view rooted in well-formed thought or analysis. So I disagree with the above criticism of Exhibit G. If you don’t have a strong take, why fake otherwise? I respect that. A lot of B.S. on forums comes from guys who have no friggin’ clue but pretend to be an absolute authority.
As far as John Wall, let’s remember: The NBA is about SPEED. Quickness and speed kill in basketball, at all positions, on O and D, and Wall has speed to burn for 40 minutes a night. A few years back, they did away with the no hand-checking rule. And now speedy guards with skills are having their way. But Wall is more than fast. He has serious ball handling skills, passing instincts and creating angles, penetration moves, solid shooting fundamentals. He can be terrific defensively. His left hand is incredible. He looks close to ambidextrous with his ability to finish left.
A lot of performance at the collegiate level has to be tempered with the understanding of playing against zones in a structured system that does not maximize player skills. The turnovers and shooting range are of little concern in my mind, and normal at his stage in development. Remember, Tyreke upped his scoring by 3 points (17 to 20) from Memphis to SAC against far superior players. I see Wall just as polished, though he has more natural PG skills than Tyreke.
I disagree John Wall will struggle. Players with all the physical and athletic gifts who struggle tend to have a primary move, maybe a secondary move, but lack a series of counter moves. Wall has a toolbox of moves to break down defenders, with speed as his primary weapon. He also has an efficiency of movement at the point of attack. There is little wasted motion. This will serve him well at the next level.
I hate to bring up this name but as long as we are bringing up comparable NBA players, John Wall reminds me of Kobe Bryant in his athletic prime. If he has the same work ethic, he can be that dominant. At the same age, Wall > Kobe.
If I was to have one question on Wall, it will be his ability to finish in the paint. We know with his quickness he will get to the hoop, but @ 6’4 and 180 lbs, can he finish consistently over taller defenders? Can he absorb contact, draw fouls, without shying from imposing defenders? He is going to have to develop a little runner, or a 5 to 10 foot floater. If he adds this shot to his arsenal, he will be that much tougher.
No one is a sure thing for super stardom. But as far as no-risk # 1 picks go, Wall is the closest thing to LeBron since LeBron.
Beno averaged 72% at the rim on 2.5 FGA's per game.
Will Wall be able to make a living at the rim like Evans, No. But, then I wouldn’t think we’d want him to. As for Wall being the closest thing to LeBron, that’s probably a little bit too strong.
There are a lot of great PG’s in the West, and I’m not sure Evans could make an All Star team for the next couple of years as a PG. And, Wall hasn’t proven that he can beat out Evans for the starting PG spot on the Kings, yet.
What does make Wall a promising player for the Kings, is that Evans game translates to the SG position in every category except shooting percentages. In pts, rebs, asts, fga’s, and steals Evans would have ranked in the top 5 of West Coast SG’s.
The main problem I see with Wall is that he only shot 31% from the college 3, while Evans shot 30% from the Pro 3. Add, that Evans gets to the rim and finishes at a higher rate than Wall, and who wins the starting PG spot probably comes down to Assists/TO’s.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I am not
comparing Wall to LeBron in terms of their games. Totally different. I would compare Wall to Kobe as an athletic specimen, and similar in some of their playing mechanics. I draw the comparison to LeBron only to the extent that I think John Wall is the surest star entering the league since LeBron went #1, on par with a Kevin Durant, and ahead of Rose. Tyreke and Blake Griffin. And certainly a better pro prospect than Deron Williams and Chris Paul, as highly touted as they were.
I wouldn’t get caught up in Wall’s three point percentage. Certainly he needs to improve, but it doesn’t mean a lot. When you can blow by your defender at will, outside shooting is not your focus as an offensive player. There’s no reason he cannot become a proficient shooter. His quickness will force players to back off him, allowing him plenty of open looks.
I am launching a web site on basketball shooting soon. If Wall is launching bricks next year, and all else fails, and especially if he is wearing a Kings uniform, I will twitter him the link ;)
Great discussions
This is what I hoped this story would generate.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
random related thought
with all of these incredible athletes who are mediocre (or worse) shooters and who excel at getting to the rim, the importance of a defensive low post presence and shot blocker becomes all the more valuable.
by betweentheeyes on May 4, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understood your analogy
I disagree that Wall will have the same impact or success that LeBron had when he entered the NBA.
The point I was making about the 3pt shooting was that Wall won’t get to the rim any easier or more often than Evans does. So, unless Walls 3pt shooting leaps ahead of Evans shooting
Wall hasn’t proven that he can beat out Evans for the starting PG spot on the Kings, yet.
And until he does, I see him as mostly hype. Show me the assts/to ratio. But, until I see more Wall & Cousins would be my main prospects.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
good point about turner
I still can’t decide whether I think he’ll be a great player or just a very good player…when someone is that talented, thier greatness can ussually be determined by thier work ethic and athletisism. The vast majority of the time, to be great you need to have both skill and great athleticisim, and Wall has tha. Turner doesn’t.
Thats why I woult take Wall with the #1 pick. And it hurts to say that, because I love Turner.
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Am I the only one that is concerned that Turner is a Junior?
I haven’t seen him play. I watch very little college basketball. If he’s such a stud, why didn’t he come out last season? After his Freshman year?
Looking at his stats, he had a pretty good year last year, but his freshman year looks a bit weak. That team included Conley and Oden though, I believe.
To me it’s a little like the Thabeet pick last year. He was in Spencer’s draft and pulled out because he was dropping, then two years later he’s a #2 pick? He didn’t suddenly sprout wings, he was just two years closer to his ultimate potential.
Did Turner’s ceiling go up, or is he just two years farther along the growth path. How does 21 year old Turner compare to Wall or Favors in two years?
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 3, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points
From what I’ve seen, Turner was really impressive. I like him quite a bit.
From what I have heard, he had some problems with his attitude early on. Since then he’s matured and had time to become a more well-rounded player. I think he has a lower ceiling than Wall or Favors, but you also have a more developed player and better idea of what you’d be getting. Risk/reward trade-off.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Agreed, and Johnson is a 4th year junior
He sat out a year when he transferred from Iowa State to Cuse.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yeah. I saw your post below, after submitting this one. Good to know I'm not alone.
@G point taken on the risk/reward trade off. I agree, just am not sure others take the extra years of development into account.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on May 3, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Turner is a late bloomer the way Brandon Roy & Danny Granger were.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nice
if we can, give me Turner or Favors. The more I read about Cousins … the more I don’t want him.
Can someone please provide a link
to a story about Cousins’ work ethic? I have read some links about his attitude, temper, fights, psyciatric meds but I have never read anything about bad work ethic.
I’m not saying they aren’t out there. I’m just saying I don’t remember reading anything bad about it. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on May 3, 2010 2:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This link mentions work ethic, but no specifics
There is a lot of great information on Cousins.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I'm not sure he was saying that Cousins had a work ethic problem.
in the last paragraph he wrote
those pesky intangibles. Those things that are hard to quantify with statistics, but easy to see on and off the court and easy to put into words: Work Ethic. Coachability. Basketball IQ. Effort. Focus. Maturity. Mental Toughness. Competitiveness. If those things are there, they can turn a good college player into a great NBA player.
He might just be questioning if the intangibles are there. At least that’s how I read the last sentence.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Oh, I agree with you.
The writer does list those “intangibles” among his list of weaknesses, but he really doesn’t provide any support or specifics for a poor work ethic. I was merely providing allbenji’s a link which mentions poor work ethic.
I am with you, I think the writer may have been questioning those intangibles. I just didn’t write my opinion about it, because I was just going to let allbenji and other interested people draw their own conclusions. I am with allbenii. I haven’t read anything about poor work ethic. Being clumped together with other intangibles doesn’t really say anything about his work ethic.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
to add from DX
on Favors bio, DX compares the two prospects directly although without specifics.
“With that said, Favors’ terrific intangibles make it quite a bit easier to see him reaching his incredibly high ceiling compared with the likes of a DeMarcus Cousins for example, and it wouldn’t be surprising to see him improve rapidly over the next few years.”
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NCAA-Weekly-Performers-21610-3396/
Maybe they just hate on DC over there, but personally idc. I want Favors anyway.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
Thanks for the comparative info from DX.
I would have been nice if he would have elaborated on these “intangibles” a little bit more, with specifics and facts. But, it is pretty clear he favors Favors over Cousins, because of those intangible intangibles.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Givony thinks that Favors is a lot more emotionally stable than Cousins is.
And, he’s right. Cousins has attitude issues, conditioning issues, needs the ball to be effective, and other things. Not to mention the anti-behavior meds which bother me less than they should if he weren’t in better condition. (That scares me.)
My bet is that the Kings may end up choosing Cousins or Al Farouq Aminu or Cole Aldrich if they don’t get a top 3 pick. As talented as Cousins is, he has many red flags, and some of them are on the court.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Do you have a link for the "anti-behavior" meds
or the name of the meds?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Nope.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nothing further, Your Honor.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
To add to this. Here is a link, which could explain where this whole rumor started.
"Random Anonymous Scout Speculates DeMarcus Cousins is on ‘Bigtime Meds.’ "
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
It doesn't need to be proven in court.
I’m not trying to slander Cousins here. I have issues with his game on THE COURT. If he is in on those meds, and has conditioning issues, I’m not sure that isn’t a health issue there.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But as long as it's only speculation at this point (and it's going to be only speculation--NBA teams won't say anything about it because it will be used against Cousins publicly)
So really, if this is going to be about anything, it’s about the on court stuff. There is a lot of stuff there with regards to Cousins IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As to the speculation...
I was surprised to discover that it may well have been the comments by one scout that started this whole thing about the psych meds. There could be some truth to it or it could be a rumor that caught on with no basis.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I know you aren't trying to slander Cousins.
I was making a bit of a joke with the “Nothing Further, Your Honor”statement. No offense, intended.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
No offense taken.
I didn’t find the statement offensive. Just thought I should clarify. Your point did come across joke or not.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well technically pookey couldn't have slandered him, given slander is the oral version of defamation
technically it would be libel … and i’m a smartass
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point.
Also, technically, he was only repeating something that was already posted on the Internet.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I was pointing out that it's a potential red flag and it's something that will scare teams away. Possibly even GP & the Kings.
Don’t rule it out just because it seems unsubstianted at this point. Also, as I’ve said, there are plenty of red flags with Cousins on the court regardless of anti-behaviarol meds.
To tell you the truth, the meds don’t really concern me. But I don’t have to deal with Cousins on an up & close personal basis either.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't rule it out the concern
I was pointing out that it’s a potential red flag and it’s something that will scare teams away. Possibly even GP & the Kings.
I agree with you completely. The possibility that he may have taken some psych meds doesn’t bother me. He would not be able to play as well on the court if he was taking some heavy psych meds.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
^I don't rule out the concern
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Thanks for the effort SD but this post made him sound like freaking Tim Duncan
I am on the Cousins bandwagon but lately I have heard a few people comment about work ethic. I don’t think I want anyone on this team with bad work ethic. This is my reason for wanting some type of evidence or professional opinion on this matter.
I love beating dead horses.
I understand you reasoning for wanting some concrete evidence or professional opinion on the matter.
We may have to wait to get better intelligence about Cousin’s work ethic. I am just as interested as you are, as I am on the Cousin’s bandwagon.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I've asked the same question before without any response
As I am also curious. I was actually just taking people’s word for it that he had attitude problems, but then I was on youtube to see some video and there was a video of him fielding questions from reporters. It made me question people saying he has an attitude and is arrogant because he seemed very level headed in the interview, and said he just want to play ball, and at times even poked fun at himself, so now I am thoroughly confused on where to stand regarding Cousins.
Deeper than the stare of a man that lost it all, wider than the outstretched arms of the law, wider than the eyes of a newborn child, we're committed, to go the extra mile
by prowseinthehouse on May 3, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Meds?
That doesn’t sound good. If he is taking meds that definitely lowers his stock.
All that I have seen is one CBS sportsline article that really painted him as the loose cannon on the KU squad because he can lose his temper.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with the guy just because he threw a nasty elbow in a game after getting a little roughed up.
Wall
I like Wall and want Wall because of his star power. No player since LeBron has been hyped as much since High School. What Wall would do for Sac is bring that STAR power that we haven’t really had since CWebb. That means more national TV appearences and the ability to attract other big name free agents. Oh yeah, plus what he brings to the court.
If we don't get a top 2 pick...
Just saw Raja Bell on Rome and he would be a good fit to start at the 2. Good defensively and a sharp shooter from range. That would be a solid FA signing who would fit well in out system.
He is a pretty good vet
I would imagine he signs for the minimum with a contender though since he is getting older.
Raja
I think if we were in a position to make a playoff run, that might be a good move. But I think it would be a bad move for a rebuilding team.
Exactly, unless Geoff feels we need a veteran presence to show these young guns how to do it right
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
After watching the OKC run this year I might be overly optimistic about our chances at make a run next year. If we draft another stud, sign an allstar or make a big trade (I.e. Bosh in a sign and trade) or any of the combinations above, I would have to beleive we would enter next season as a team with a realistic chance at making the playoffs.
maybe not as hyped as LBJ
but i have a nagging worry that Wall is going to be more Mayo than LBJ. Lebron was a lock because of his size+athleticism. Wall has the athleticism but he doesn’t have the size. Mayo is a good player but nowhere near LBJ and I seem to remember him getting huge hype pre/post USC. not saying he shouldn’t be #1 necessarily – but not sure he is a definite superstar.
Wall doesn't have size?
he’s 6’4 with a great wingspan at the PG position. Who else would have more size than him at the 1 not named Tyreke evans?
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
yes
but that’s average in the nba. obviously his game is about speed & quickness but i’m just saying he isn’t unique the way LBJ, Reke, or Durant are – where they have the skills, athleticism + body for their position. kidd 6’4, deron 6’3, billups 6’3, westbrook 6’3, rose 6’3. i don’t see wall as a lock to be a superstar. good – yes, superstar – not sure.
as for the kings – i’m not sure having 2 guys that can’t shoot in the same backcourt is going to work. reke can use his size currently to post up pgs if they are guarding him. if you bring in wall then you are guaranteed that reke will get guarded by 2s – which will reduce his effectiveness in the post because he’s be going up against guys that are 6’5+.
Wall - what is not to like?
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Turnovers schmurnovers
The dunks, Rik! THE DUNKS!!!
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 3, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry
I somehow forgot about the dunks.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Wall could be a very good player, but he still has some holes in his game.
Dunking Dutchman
I can live with some holes in his game.
Tyreke has a few holes in his.
Dunks are the icing. Nice, intimidate the other team.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
Favors is good at the ducks, too.
Check it out: Put Favors in the Dunk Contest
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
I think B52 was good at the ducks
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on May 3, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
But Turner isn’t projected as a point guard. Wall is. And with an 1.62 assist to turnover ratio, I’m not overly impressed.
Turner is a scorer, with more range, and a very good rebounder for his position. Wall does rebound fairly well, but not that good.
I just have trouble with the notion that Wall is sooooo far ahead of the pack. IMO, he isn’t.
Dunking Dutchman
That video eventually led me to the Derrick Rose (Sr.) vs. Tyreke Evans (Jr.) video.
And for that, I thank you.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on May 3, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Wall - what is not to like?
The fact that he’s probably going to go #1, and we aren’t going to have the #1 pick. I’d love to see it fall to us, just don’t expect it to at all….
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Think positive.
Put all of the negative thoughts and all the times things haven’t gone Kings’ way behind you. There is a very good chance the Kings are going to get someone good out of the draft. I just might be Wall.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
It's hard to critique this article when you don't have a good analysis or backgoround
on any of these players. Everyone knows Wall, given he’s the most hyped player since Lebron. I think Turner or Cousins are the best options for us. Wall and Tyreke are both ball-dominant guards, and their pairing would be forced more than a natural fit, like a Tyreke/Turner backcourt. And Cousins is a beast, I have watched him a lot. I would love to have Cousins as our starting center come Oct 1st, instead of Spencer.
Good analysis and "backgoround"
Sorry for not doing technical analysis such as “Cousins is a beast”. I’ll try harder next time.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on May 3, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Really Ex G
couldn’t you have added one or two more cliche’s? Then I would have loved it.
There will never be another Kareem.
maybe some fillers
tremendous motor…great upside….a true sleeper….. All the things that really help me decide who would be a good fit. Great job per usual G
or when in doubt you can always fall back on nbran's favorite
“the dude can just flat out play”.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
If we get either Favors or Cousins
I like them starting at PF, and Spencer as the starting C. His rebounding will be less of a liability starting next to them, and I think his offensive game would be a good fit. I would love to have JT and Landry off the bench at PF and C too.
I like Favors or Cousins starting at PF
JT starting at C
and Spencer starting at prima donna for the Sacto Ballet
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Freshman, Junior, Freshman, Freshman, 4th year Junior
Not being sure when your talking about Freshman, is certainly understandable. It’s always a crap shoot. I’m actually more concerned about the Juniors who still have wholes in their games and may be closer to their ceiling concidering their age and athleticism.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Very good points
Turner was very raw his freshman year, a long way from where he is today.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Two big differences on Wall and Beasley
1) Beasley was known to have a checkered past, a bit of a headcase and work ethic issues. Wall, while some academic problems (Like Rose) has always been praised for being a leader in practice as well as games, and according to Calipari “one of hardest workers”
2) Beasley is very undersized. In college he was ‘6-10’. At the combine he showed up 6-7 with a 7-0 wingspan (aka about Lebron james/Carmelo size). But since he can’t play SF effectively, at PF that’s a big difference. He can’t just bully in the post like he did in college.
Wall for all intensive purposes does NOT look undersized. We shall find out but I expect him to measure somewhere like Derrick Rose and Dwayne Wade. 6-4 with long span
Beasley
Good point about Beasley’s size.
As for the past, there was the breaking and entering story last year about Wall. Seemed innocent enough, and certainly nothing to be overly concerned about, but not a spotless past. And with anyone in a Calipari program, there are questions (depending on who you listen to).
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
for all intensive purposes
should be – for all intents and purposes.
I’m a card carrying member of the grammar police, sorry….
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Thanks J, that was bothering me a little bit too.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on May 3, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But we have "intensive purposes" for a player of his caliber..
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
Hard to argue
With the De Facto authority on all things grammar related. The question is…..What’s his vertical compared to his true height (sans sneakers…)?
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
Greg Monroe
Is a guy who if taken 12-15 will make a team very happy but if taken 6-10 will leave someone upset. I don’t like your Kevin Love comparison, cause Kevin Love is a MONSTER on the boards.
Monroe could be a rich man’s Brad Miller. Or an Unathletic Man’s Lamar Odom.
Again
I’m not comparing styles of play.
I’m saying exactly what you said. He’s a little underrated and will probably go low enough to make a team very very happy.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Aldrich is like 700 feet tall!
Reddick looks like a hobbit. Bad comparison.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on May 3, 2010 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
But they're both white
Everyone knows all white players are the same. Larry bird, Greg Ostertag, Steve Nash, Scott Pollard etc.
Yeah
Like a Most “rec’d” etc.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Sex'd
Bill Cosby is laughing at his sweater…
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
I'm thinking this is Lou Carnesecca's absolute favorite Playgirl Cover
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson..."
by Olberdingleberry on May 3, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW...Peaches wants you to cut out the Mutumbo Dong Exclusive for him
..Claims Lam borrowed this edition from his collection and never returned.
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson..."
by Olberdingleberry on May 3, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like the the idea of adding Favors to our frontcourt
And I actually would rather have the #3 pick and have Favors than team up Evans with Wall or Turner.
This comparison with Tyreke just makes me all the more sure that he is the man we need.
With Favors, you can push him to develop my starting him at the 4 right away (I think you can team him with either Spencer or Jason) and let Landry come off the bench and play the 4th quarter like he did in Houston. Or if he really isn’t ready it’s no big deal, Jason and Spencer can fight over the center spot while Landry continues to adjust well to his starting role, and Favors can take over the hustle spot that Brockman had early last season, but with better defensive rebounding and shot blocking.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on May 3, 2010 1:08 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
is it weird
to root for a lower lottery selection spot, if only to make it so there isn’t a shitstorm of debate over why the team picked someone?
by TheFifthMookie on May 3, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not too weird,
but I’d rather have the undeniable talent that will be available in the 1-5 spots as opposed to the crap shoot of prospects after those picks. No doubt at least a handful will be immediate contributors, but who those guys will be are anybody’s guess at this point….
"he looks like he is going to take a bite out of a huge invisible sandwich..." - wallywagon11
It is
Because we have GP. GP is not afraid to use a pick on someone the pundits will disagree with. I have full faith that if GP gets the #1 pick, he will pick the best player. Not who the media think the best player is.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
Favors = Nazr Muhammed?
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on May 3, 2010 2:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm all for Favors, but obv would rather trade down and acquire extra assets
I assume that’s ur ideal position also
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
If we get favors we should demand he wear number 31
We will call him 31 Favors.
by brianmc27 on May 3, 2010 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Negative rec for the Nickelback reference
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I hate to follow a guy like jfdiso
but I have finally decided on Favors if we get the #3 pick…and my rationale is simple, Favors is a can’t miss and Cousins could be a miss. At #3 you can’t afford a miss,
Favors can board, defend and march up athletically. Work ethic and attitude rumored to be great. If he’s not NBA ready we have a foursome of JT, Hawes, Landry and Favors . That group could match up with anybody not named Dwight Howard in some combination. Although I am hoping Labdry can play some 3 next year.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
agreed on Favors
i have a hard time seeing him as a bust
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
I love to follow a guy like ElRon
and I’m down with Favors as well. Also, but it’s a big ALSO:
Great to see you on the front page again G.
This is the beginning of the draft season which will only get more interesting after draft order is determined in the lottery. I was one of those who voted for a sure #3 because I think Favors will still be available there, depending how it all shakes out, he may not be there at 4. On the other hand we were all waiting for GP to take Rubio with the 4th pick last season.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
JT vs AR v 2.0
interesting to me the idea of favors vs cousins. on the surface this reminds me a lot of the decision petrie had with JT or Randolph. One has the NBA body (JT) and the other has the potential for greatness (AR). Petrie i think went with the safer pick and turned out that he was right to this point – JT has been relatively consistent compared to ARs up-and-down act. JT has shown that at a minimum he’ll be a backup that will play for 10+ years in this league with the potential to be a long-term starter. AR still hasn’t proven he’ll be in the league 5 years from now I don’t think.
Back to Cousins vs Favors. Cousins has the NBA body and for that reason alone on the surface he might look like the safe pick. But here i definitely would vote for Petrie taking the risk on the upside guy and going with Favors. He might not have the size but he appears to have a much bigger upside than Cousins. We’ve already got enough average big men on the team, time to take a chance on a potential star.
Though, isn't Favors generally seen as a safer pick than Cousins, due to DC's "red flags"?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on May 4, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
And Favors has an NBA body, he just isn't as big as Cousins
Favors: 6’10 246
Cousins: 6’11 270
I would rather have the guy who is an inch shorter that is a better athlete, already plays better defense, and has better upside. And btw here is the rookie measurements for Dwight Howard: 6’10 240. DH is now listed at 6’11 265.
Don’t put your eggs in the Cousins basket just because he’s a little bigger atm.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
Let wait until the combine to get actual measurements not college published hype.
but actually based on those stats we already have a Favors, isn’t Donte 6’10 and 240 with great athletics and plays defense. And, Donte’s has better offensive skills.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
that is the truth
Favors doesn’t look 6’10" but if he plays 7’0" it doesn’t matter. Dwight Howard measured as 6’9" at the 2004 combine
by betweentheeyes on May 4, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions
this
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
I agree
much hype will be settled once measurements and workouts begin. I think it is quite fascinating how we all look at the same products and have different opinions.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
I like this G
Simple way of looking at this prospects. How we feel about these players has a lot to do with who we choose as our favorite. Many times, we’ve seen little of them and we’re just going by our gut feeling so your post is an example.
I remember last year how Reke always reminded me of Derrick Rose. It was just the Memphis connection, because their games were so different, but there was something that felt right about it. That’s why he was my 3rd-4th favorite prospect.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Wall vs. Turner: The question of offensive fit
From a team dynamic standpoint, I feel that Turner is a better fit in the King’s current half-court offensive philosophy. His superior court sense and movement off the ball could work wonders with a Reke/Beno backcourt (although someone’s got to develop into a consistent 3-point threat). Add in Turner’s defensive proficiency, and he’s worth a second look should we draw the top slot (not to mention being chosen over Favors/Cousins if we take the second pick).
That being said, Wall’s freakish athletiicism and realistic potential to develop into a very special player are, in my opinion, too tempting to pass up.
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson..."
by Olberdingleberry on May 3, 2010 11:13 PM PDT reply actions
Favors is the pick in my estimation.
This cat is a hard worker, he is a solid character guy, he isn’t an ego guy. He is a better rebounder, defender, and shot blocker than Cousins, he has a great around the bucket game but needs to move it out some but honestly… interior defense and rebounding is what we need so badly I think he will be a Dwight Howard type of guy. His athleticism is great, he is the type of guy that can “jump out of the gym” be a slam dunk champion, which is always great publicity for the franchise.
This guy has amazing upside and playing in a city like Sac where the fans realize we won’t be winning today is an ideal fit for him to develop into the player he can be. He has a RIDICULOUS wingspan, they’re claiming he has a 9’1" standing reach… that is nuts. He has work to do but nothing seems to show that he won’t be in the gym working his ass off. I love your comparison to Tyreke and I realy hope he is our pick.
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