How Andres Nocioni Figures Into It All
In case you missed it, Andres Nocioni renewed his displeasure with the state of the Kings, and told Spanish-language media he won't return to the Kings, either because he will have been traded or because he will take a buy-out to escape his lucrative contract.
Part of what made Nocioni a decent acquisition (aside from the cap savings in the 2008-09 and 2009-10 seasons) is that this is who he is. He wants to play, and he'll fight to be on the court. Maybe his game as a bit of what Tim Thomas' would define as "fugazy" -- a lot of El Chapu's so-called defensive prowess is the old Coach K bit: Nocioni scowls and beats his chest and gets in his defensive crouch. He actually quite mediocre on defense. He sags off his man way too much, and his lateral quickness leaves much to be desired.
But I digress. I was trying to compliment him, wasn't I?
Oh, right, he's tough. He's spirited. He's a competitor. You can't fault him for that. Perhaps you can fault him for taking his displeasure so public for the second time in a year. (He made similar comments at the tail end of the thrilling 17-win '08-09 season.) But again: his career is more than halfway over, and his current team continues to stockpile 21-year-olds. I see where he's coming from.
In the end, to get his freedom, it will likely take sacrifice from Nocioni to leave town. The only trade Nocioni could be involved in would be the Kings moving down in the draft (packaging their own No. 5 pick with Nocioni for a team in the late lottery or thereabouts) or taking on a bad contract. As we've been over ad nauseum, Geoff Petrie isn't a fan of trading down. If he likes a player who'd be available at No. 10, he will pick that player at No. 5 without hesitation. We also understand the team isn't likely to take on a bad contract, mostly because bad contracts almost universally belong to veterans, and the team is focused on building through youth.
That leaves the buy-out, which would entail Nocioni giving up a substantial sum of future salary for the opportunity to sign elsewhere. It sounds good on paper, but getting players to relinquish cash is easier said than done. And really, to make it worth Sacramento's while, Nocioni needs to give up at least half his salary. He's owed $13.5 million over two seasons. When you consider Nocioni can be traded but his salary couldn't be in the event there's a buy-out, couple with the obvious fact that Nocioni's production (however middling and apparently superfluous) would be unavailable in the case of a buy-out ... it's not like the Kings can take a couple million in cash savings and cut him loose.
Well, they could, but they'd have a really hard time justifying it.
We're almost to the point where we need to decide whether the Nocioni trade was a failure. To do that, I'm afraid we need real answers about how deep into financial trouble the Maloofs were in 2009, and how much better things got this season. And I'm afraid those answers will never fully come out.
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Buy-out
I think the fact that in a year he’ll be an expiring contract is strong item to consider - as you pointed out. At which point, based on the likely revised CBA, his overinflated final year would represent a very attractive chip for the Kings. The Kings should consider this as part of the present value of Noce’s buyout. And, that in and of itself, may make his contract more appealing to other teams willing to take a veteran flier?
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 9:41 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
However, in the meantime...
Kings fans will continue to bitch about Noc’s deal until he’s on a plane somplace else. I don’t think I could stand reading that kind of non-stop complaining for the next twenty months.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jun 10, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I don't think his deal is that bad myself
It’s decreasing, team option in a few seasons. He’s no K9, IMO.
Pacifist ass-kisser
No, not in that ball park
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
no one complains about his deal next season when it is expiring. then he is the most popular guy on the team...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Correct
NO WAY do the Kings buy him out.
What possible reason would they have to do this? This is a business. We would be throwing an asset (his contract) away for less than its true value. As we have seen repeatedly, salary slots and final year contracts are a HUGE element of today’s NBA. Nocioni is an asset that does not have to get on the court in order to help us. Next year we can likely unload him for value as some team will want his expiring contract. In the meantime Petrie can be very selective in any deal that could include Nocioni.
His whining has NOTHING to do with our franchise or plans. Who cares? If he is a distraction, the team can just send him home; if not, we can use him off of the bench until his contract expires or is traded. There is NO reason to buy him out.
if he becomes back to Locker room, and you have to remember, this isn’t his last year, hes got another one to go..If the Maloofs have a chance to shed some money being spent, they will do it..Look at everything else they have done lately.K9 wasn’t an asset, he needed to get bought out and he was in the final year of his contract.
Judgment day is coming!
Why would you just send him home and keep paying him...
instead of giving him a buyout for less money? 1 million, 2 million, 4 million whatever the savings, it’s still savings. Add to this the fact that the Kings get cash off the cap back if he signs anywhere else in the world as a professional basketball player.
I see three options-
1. A lateral trade of similar contracts that redistributes talent among teams- Noc for Diop/Muhammed.
2. A lop sided trade where the Kings take back a much higher priced player. Noc for Hedo.
3. A buyout. Kings save 20-30% of Noc. contract and get further relief with the
(new contract – league minimum x 1/2). Noc takes say 9 million instead of 13.5 distributed over 2 years (4.5 per). Noc signs a new 2yr/6 million dollar contract in Europe (3 mill a year). 3 million – 750,000 = 2.25 mill x 1/2 = 1.125 million. per season. Kings pay Noc 6.75 million over 2 years instead of 13.5 million.
Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. The Kings will exhaust options but in the end, negotiating a buy out is probably in the best interest for both the Kings and Noc. We are talking about nearly a 7 million dollar price break over two years. Cash that can be used on other players or for trades.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
nice breakdown, rec'd
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
While I agree with the intent of your post, I don't believe any future European contract
would give us cap relief as you state in item #3. I think we’d have to get Noc to factor his anticipated Euro salary into a lower initial buyout. Or allow him to seek a verbal on a Euro contract before finalizing the buyout agreement.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree there are problems with item number three.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Not to steal Pookey/Larry Coon's work but read this:
If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers — see question number 55), the player’s original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team — it doesn’t even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player’s new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead)
It’s pretty cut and dry here. Pookey posted this in another thread so I want to make sure the credit is given where it due. Larry Coon, which authored this information is the man in regards to the cap. Not that anyone is infallible but it’s pretty straight forward information.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
No steal it.
It’s not like I’m not stealing it from Coon.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
After you Pookey, I consider myself pretty good with this CBA stuff.
Sometimes it’s hard to get your head around it but Coon is spectacular. Maybe we can get your FAQ sheet re-posted and in the rec list for the impending free agency window.
I think we have also missed a very important point in the Nocioni article. He said:
They told me that they agree and that they will try to trade me to a team that’s competing, sometime by the draft that’s coming in 15 days. I just have to wait.
Is it just me or did Noc just tell us that the Kings are working on draft day trades? I find this amazing, cool, awesome…… The Kings need to be active early and often. If they believe that they can’t deal Noc, I see a quick buy-out from this information which also means that we should see a lot of action come FA. The Kings hold a lot of cards and this should be a wild 2 or 3 weeks.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I'd have to make tweaks for it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And yes he did or that's what Eddie's translation seemed to imply anyway.
I’ve always had the feeling that Brand’s contract is in play if the Kings want Favors or Cousins. (I see Favors being more likely at this point. But that’s me.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Something is brewing and I like it.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I think the 76ers are definitely a trade possibility and probably the only one in regards to the draft
Only reason to move up to 2 would be to select Favors.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I would pray and hope they don't move up for Cousins
IMO Cousins is the type of guy who I wouldn’t move up for but if he’s the best available I wouldn’t mind too much.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
If they have their eye on him, which I hope and pray they do, they was get him rather risk losing him.
If they stay at the 5, they risk having to settle for Johnson, Monroe, or Whiteside.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
they will try to get him...
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Hey
If you missed it in the other thread, instructions on washing your keyboard in the dishwasher here.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks. Sounds like a last resort option if you spill something on it that you can't get off - like honey, cooking oil, or paint.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
What Wally said.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The SMART thing to do
would be to move Noc/#5 for Brand/#2 THEN deal #2 to the Wolves for #4,#16, #23. At that point, try and move Garcia for an expiring with one of those later picks to justify the Brand salary. Take Cousins at #4 and a guard at both #23 and #33.
That's assuming Philly does that.
Which is not necessarily a wise assumption.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I doubt it.
I doubt any decision to trade down, on say Philly’s part, has been determined. It’s not like Stefanski is going to use Noc’s comments as a big thing against the Kings here. He can’t. Stefanski is likely aware of the teams that want to move up. He knows the Kings are looking at Favors & Cousins like he has.
I doubt this moves the needle of a draft day trade one way or the other to be honest.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That was the most interesting part for me as well
I wouldn’t bet on a move being done by then but you never know.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Here's the thing though Eddie.
Even with that being said, it’s worth remembering that most teams do deals around the draft because right now they’re evaluating draft prospects. Come draft time, all the teams are talking so it’s much easier to get deals done then.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Good point
It’s just hard for me to envision Petrie making deals draft day. It just seems out of character. We’ll see… shoudl be interesting either way
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Mike Bibby was dealt for J-Will on draft day.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
2001
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sergio was essentially a draft deal right
although I think it happened prior to the actual draft.
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
Well, he traded for Sergio last year
And after drafting Spencer he basically said they had tried to move up with six different teams. So it’s not completely out of his style, but yeah, his track record has been pretty quiet on draft day.
Totally forgot about Sergio.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thanks. I looked in the faq, and could only find references to NBA teams. Turns out I read right over your bolded part
Here’s the link to JJ’s quote. In case any one’s interested.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No stress, I want to make sure my information is up to snuff so having others double check my work is always ok with me.
This is an exciting development. The cap implications of Noc taking a pay cut are huge. The Kings already have close to 21 million to work with. If they can shave another 2 or 3 million off that figure, they become players for multiple high quality players. I know a lot of people are against the Hedo idea but could you imagine adding Hedo, Cousins and a player like Lee and only giving up Noc and Garcia? Again, this is going to be a crazy couple of weeks.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Add Cousins and Lee
And we have some insane depth in the Frontcourt.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Hawes would likely become expendable if this happened though
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Perhaps Hawes for DJ Augustin here.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I've been preaching this deal for a long time.
If the Kings can add the depth in the front court, Augustin is a perfect trade candidate, as long as Felton signs back.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Augustin would be a great partner for Tyreke in my opinion
Can shoot and handle the ball, also young.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
A perfect swap IMO as well.
Petrie will be on the prowl for a combo guard if they don’t draft Wesley Johnson with the #5. Augustin, Nate Robinson, Pargo, TJ Ford (in a straight up swap for Noc) all come to mind as players that would work with the current backcourt.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I'd rather have Jerome Randle.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm already convinced Nate Robinson will be a King next year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Hawes for Aaron Brooks
excites me a lot more and the Rockets could get Bradley or Bledsoe at #14 to replace Brooks. Hawes then gives the Rockets Yao-insurance in case he really doesn’t recover. Hawes would be great with Adelman.
Houston does this?
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
No. Houston does not do this.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
This.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No, they don't do that either
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I was saying "Houston does not do this"
but trying to get smills to realize..
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
People are stupid.
Mushroom Mushroom!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Augustin
Was bothered by an injury last season but he looked tough, real tough, his rookie year. He has the rare talent to create plays in the air, his ft% is great, and he’s a fantastic 3pt shooter.
ailene voisin is wack!
Just saw your chat with Coon. I'm linking it in my writeup at EC so you know. Thanks.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No problem
Since you have it all copied up you mind making it a comment here?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
There’s a clause in the contract that says what happens to unexercised options when the player is waived (and a buyout is a form ..of waiver). It depends on what that clause says. There are also things they can do upon mutual agreement — mutually amend the…contract to either eliminate the option or move the option window (if necessary) and the team can pick up the option before …waiving the player). So if they want to, they can work it either way. But if the player gets paid for the option year, the ...buyout applies to that year.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thanks Pook.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think what Sham was saying that Noc has no money for the team option.
Therefore it would only be spread out over 2. It’s possible both are right.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or more rather
It’s likely that Sham/Coon are both right. Sham in the particular circumstances, and Coon’s general rule.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yep, that is awesome.
If he would take 9 million in a buyout, as you suggested. That would be great, but then to have that 4.5 per year amount dropped another million or so when he signs in Europe. Sounds great.
That option is almost better than any trades I could see, unless we provide cap relief and get a nice pick or young player in return.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice analysis.
I do have some disagreement with you on one factor. A buyout would have to remove so much of Nocioni’s contract to be of use that he wouldn’t ever agree to it. I think interest in Nocioni is FAR less than he would like to believe.
I agree with you on the other two.
I don’t want Hedo’s contract (although I have always liked him both as a player and as a teammate.)
I LOVE your #1. Any center who can play defense would be a welcome sight for two years (even if they have a bad contract).
The Kings already have major cap space.
Where this money comes into play is really for the owners. If they can shave some 4 or 5 million off the books over the next 2 years, it allows for Petrie to go a little bigger in free agency. If they need an extra 2 or 3 million up front to get a player to choose Sacramento then this could open that door. It also puts the Kings in the 23-24 million cap space range after the picks are signed which allows them to sign a big free agent and still have millions to make other moves like Hawes @ 3 million for a 6 to 8 million dollar player. Flexibility, that is what a buyout gets you.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
It seems to me you are eliminating the possibility of moving Nocioni’s full contract in some other move.
It is not a given that his contract gives us LESS flexibility than would a buyout. If we move him this year we are on the hook for nothing, whereas in a buyout we are paying him to play elsewhere for the next two years.
I’m not saying that you are wrong necessarily, but it isn’t all that clear cut.
Look, the Kings already went down this road and it took them no where,
No one wanted Noc at the deadline or in November when Petrie approached the Celtics for expiring contracts. And his contract is no better today than then. He still has 13.5 million owed over the next two years and with the uncertainty of the CBA, that is a lot to take on unless you are giving something bigger out in return. If the Kings can’t deal him in the days leading through the draft and into free agency, then I believe he will be bought out and sent packing. I only see him as a real asset in acquiring a bigger contract and even then , the Kings have the cash to absorb more than a max level player already so it will come down to whether or not another team will be willing to take back something in exchange for their player and at this point Noc is a negative asset in that kind of trade.
A hypothetical example: the 76ers are looking to unload Iggy and his remaining contract. The Kings offer Noc for Iggy while another team offers nothing for Iggy but a future second round pick. Iggy goes to that other team.
The only way I see this going down is my original 3 options. Noc is a negative trade chip right now and I very little room for change in that scenario. You don’t keep a guy who is willing to take a pay cut to walk for two years just in case he might have trade value later.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I don’t see your point. Things change. Just because Nocioni wasn’t moved earlier doesn’t preclude the possibility of moving him later.
Besides, your hypothetical isn’t remotely real. Philadelphia isn’t giving Iguodala up for nothing. I think that any deal there involves Brand’s contract – in such a deal you can be sure that a contract like Nocioni’s has more value than a second round pick. It is about shedding salary as we have been discussing. His contract has value to US.
We are basically arguing just to argue. I agree with 85% of what you are saying. If the buyout is not saving us much, I just don’t think we should do it.
If the Kings do a buyout (and that may depends on how trades work out first), then expect a 50 cents on the dollar buyout or somewhere around there.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
50 cents on the dollar trade?
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
No, buyout
Kings buy him out for half of what they owe. Works nicely for all parties involved. He’d be a likely star in Europe and could make quite a bit over there.
Pookey, what if Noc took a buyout at about $3.5 million for each year, whether its 2 or 3 or whatever. If he went and signed in Europe for $2 million a year he’d only count aas $1.5 million against our cap, right?
#vfettkefordraft
I don't have time to think about the setoff right now.
Let’s walk down that road when Noc take a buyout V. It’s easier that way.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hmm... okay
I thought it was a pretty easy question. Guess not. God I love the salary cap
#vfettkefordraft
It's not an easy question to answer without knowing the details of A) the buyout and B) a new contract that Noc signs.
Okay?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This is especially true with a European contract.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Good thing the Kings have a good attorney to work this out.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Has nothing to do with the Greek prez lady or Levien. (I can't spell her name off the top of my head.)
It has to do with financials that won’t be known until down the road. When you know that stuff, then you can take care of all those things. Right now we’re too far ahead of the game to speculate on money specifics. Unlike Mikki Moore whom we could reasonably guess what setoff would be, that was partly because we knew that Moore was owed 2 million for this past season and what not. Situation is a bit different with Noc.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But I asked a hypothetical question with hypothetical financials given
and her names Matina Kolokotronis. And she’s a bit of a cougar:

#vfettkefordraft
by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hercules, Hercules.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Looks like 'Reke passed her that invisible sandwich.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 10, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Looks like she is hypothetically measuring something.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
she seems to be a classy lady
and you handled that remark very appropriately. Nice to see.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 10, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
She does seem like a very classy lady.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
arg sorry
Read it completely wrong. Thought it read “If the Kings DON’T do a buyout then expect a 50 cents on the dollar buyout …”
Hence my confusion.
As an unrelated sidenote, I don’t know how to read or right good. It’s a good thing I have a job that deals with reading and writing. Awesome.
The internet is destroying my brain
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not a dollar for dollar savings.
The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player’s new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran
Per the quote cited by jj above.
Minimum salary for a 1 year player is around 750k per here
So, using your example of a $7 million buy out and Noc signing for 2 million a year. The way I read it, it would look like this:
$3.5 million – 1/2($2 million – $750k) = 3.5 mil – 625k = $2.875 million counted against our cap for each of the next two years.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Noc will take so little.
The normal buy-out for a player has always been a small break for the team. Nocioni is in a different situation but the players union is going to have major issues if he takes 50-60%. If Noc really wants out and already has something waiting in Europe then maybe he takes a 3 million dollar hit in each season but that is a lot of cash to leave on the table.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Noc might
But I doubt his agent will.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree. Was just using vfettke's numbers since it was his question
I think if we end up buying him out, his buyout amount plus his Euro contract will equal right around 13.5 million. So, maybe he takes a buyout of 9 mil and signs for 2 mil a year. He doesn’t leave much cash on the table and we end up saving a couple of mil a year.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If he doesn't accept it, he can just sit at the end of the bench next season.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
I believe that the right of set-off is used when the Player refuses to a buyout and is waived
If Noc is willing to negotiate a buyout then the right of set-off can be waived if both parties agree. Noc can agree to any buyout amount and waive his right of set-off.
If both parties agreed upon $8M as the buyout amount, then the Kings would have $4M of the buyout added to their team salary for each of the two remaining years of his contract. The option years isn’t considered as part of the contract unless the option is accepted which it would be.
Noc could sign anywhere at any amount or length of time and it wouldn’t affect what the Kings pay. One last thing, Noc can agree to have the $8M paid over 4 year, but for salary cap issues the Kings would still only use the 2 years left on his contact.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sigh
HOw did you come up with this logic? I’ve never heard that a team couldn’t pursue setoff if a buyout is reached.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I didn't say that the team couldn't persue set-off
They can certainly refuse to waive it, but it’s in the players best interest to have it waived.
His buyout amount is the new amount he is owed under his contract. If the player agrees to a buyout of 50% of what he’s owed, the set-off can only lower his buyout.
So, the player won’t agree to a buy out and right of set-off.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Noc can't get his freedom otherwise.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
7AzAnd, if the
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Keyboard died, sorry
Noc can’t get his freedom, and the Kings get stuck for the full $13M. Unless they can trade him. And, if they can trade him what are they going to get back, a great player, a draft pick or some young talent with potential.
No, their going to get more bad contracts. A buy out is a win-win for the team and player. You take the best deal you can make and you part ways friends. That’s GP’s style.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Aren't you just dismissing the idea of a trade, too quickly?
Right now, Kings have a bad contract with a player who doesn’t want to be here (potential cancer). Even if they traded him for another bad contract, they would get a guy who has a better mind-set (one would hope) for being in Sacramento. That could be a win situation. At least they would get a player who contributes, rather than spending money for nothing.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
It's the bird in the hand theory
We don’t know if we can trade him for anything valuable. And, we might not be able to grant his wish to be traded to a contender. Giving he the opportunity to return to Spain, may be the best thing for his family.
So, if we can come to an arrangement, that saves the Kings even $4-5M over two years and makes his family happy, why not.
Remember the money saved could be added to a bid for a fa which could help us outbid our competition. And, $3m is the going rate for a non-lottery draft pick. So, a buy out may be the best thing for both parties.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I see your points. The thing that gets me...
Noc won’t be giving the Kings any services when he leaves, so I have a problem paying him a ton of money to basically walk away.
Your argument is that it clears some money off the books to use for something else like a FA or non-lottery draft pick.
It sounds like the GMs look at money as chips to be used for acquisition opportunities. Just having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
There once was a guy who played for the Kings
whom they traded for three smaller priced players. This one guy had one of the largest contracts in the League. Nonetheless, the team that acquired him kept him for a season and decided that it was better for their team and their future if they just agreed to a buyout and paid this player forty million US American dollars to just leave and go away. The folks in New York (well Isiah Thomas) were so impressed they did the same thing to A HeadCoach.
Paying Andres Nocioni a buyout may be the prudent and amicable thing to do, it may be the best business move to do and it may be the best personal move as well. This is not ground breaking precedent.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Bte says it well.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You shouldn't hate a bald Jew since you're near that fate yourself.
It’s bad form me thinks.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wow. Forty million to just leave.
You’re right. It is not ground-breaking precedent. For me, it is still new, as I hadn’t thought this through, before.
You did a very nice job of explaining it, bte. At first the idea seems counter-intuitive – to pay someone a ton of money to just go away, but now it is beginning to make more sense that in the end there will be a savings, which will free up a team to have more flexibility.
Thanks guys!
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
HP paid Fiorina $21 million to leave
I always tell my boss that I’ll leave for a cool mil. That’s value!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
lol
You know you have arrived, when you can retire on what someone is willing to pay you, just to see you go.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
well yeah of course
that’s why everyone wants to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 13, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I would want to be the CEO cuz of the money and no other reason.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Unfortunately, that is the mindset of some basketball players, once someone shows them the money.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Just found this on Coons, question 56
dealing with set-off
Teams and players may negotiate a waiver of the team’s set-off rights. Typically (but not necessarily) this is done when a contract is altered as part of a buyout (see question number 61), but not at other times.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
No v, the buyout and set-off are not the same.
The set-off is waivable. Noc would want it waived, since it would only reduce the amount of his buy out which is already a reduction of his guaranteed salary.
If he agrees to a buy out at less then what he is owed, then half of that is the amount of salary charged to the Kings team salary over the next two years and nothing more.
The third year of the contract is an option and options aren’t counted as part of the contract until the option or ETO is exercise. Which the Kings wouldn’t do/
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The Kings won't waive the set off.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Then Noc might not agree to a buy out amount.
Even if Noc were to get the same contract from a European team, the Kings would only save $3M per year. One half the difference between his new contract and min vet scale of $750K. So, $6.75M – $0.75M = $6M /3= $3M is the set-off so the Kings still need to pay Noc $6.75M-$3M= $3.75M
Now Noc isn’t getting that kind of money in Europe. Which means the set-off is going to be far less. So, it’s in the best interest of the team to accept a guaranteed savings of $2-3M per year then to gamble and have him sign a $1.5M contract in Europe and end up still having to pay him $6M per year.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This all gets very confusing.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
In what way?
the money, or the difference between a set-off and a buyout.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
All of it. There are a number of various options which could occur with difference consequences.
This is worthy of a fanpost.
$6M /3= $3M
BTW $6M/3 = $2M
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Okay. I am obviously missing something.
Let me put my reasoning into concrete terms and maybe you or someone else can tell me where I am off in my reasoning.
Let’s say I contract a baker to bake me a birthday cake for each of the next two years. If I like his cakes, I may extend his contract a third year. Each cake costs $300, so I have committed $600 for the two future cakes.
Later, the baker comes to me and says his wife doesn’t like to live here and wants to move. He says that if I pay him $300 he will go away and I won’t have that commitment to pay him. I don’t want to pay him because I won’t get any cakes for my birthday.
Finally, feeling sorry for his situation, I pay him $300, which leaves me $300 to use any way I want. I still want my birthday cakes, but now I only have $300 to contract for two cakes.
How do I come out ahead?
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Because it's better than the 600 dollars you're guaranteed to pay him.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Because there's no point to pay someone money you don't have to.
Especially when you have better players. This is the reality of doing business in the NBA. Some players won’t take a buyout because they don’t have an opportunity to play elsewhere.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So in my metaphor...
I don’t initially contract with the baker, someone else does. Someone else paid him more than he is worth. I ended up getting this baker, through a trade of other goods, along with his weighty contract. When the opportunity comes to get rid of this baker, I am willing to pay him half, because I really don’t want to pay him the whole amount.
Okay, I’ve got it.
Thanks.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Yup you got it now.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Bad typeing and proof reading
That was supposed to be $6M/2 =$3M.
If the set-off isn’t waived the team gets salary relief of 1/2 of the difference. So if the difference is $6M than 1/2 is $3M.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think we are having an issue here.
From my understanding, the right of set-off has nothing to do with the players pay. Noc will work his buy-out and then if he signs somewhere else the Kings get to do a “salary cap paper write-off” based on the players new salary. The player doesn’t have to give money back, it is just a reduction in cap responsibility for the team.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
So in effect....
Noc agrees to a 2 yr 9 million dollar buy-out. The Kings save 4.5 million in actual pay. Noc signs with another team for 2 yr/6 mill. The Kings don’t receive any of this money, Noc now makes 15 million total. Then the whole 3 million – 750,000 × 1/2 thing happens. This figure is then knocked off the Kings cap figure as an exemption of sorts.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
This is from Coon's question 56
It says
If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers — see question number 55), the player’s original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team
So, as I read it they get to reduce the teams salary because they aren’t paying the player the original guaranteed portion of the contract. They have reduced the guarantee by the amount of the set-off.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Good find.
I remember this situation when Michael Finley got bought out by Dallas and signed with San Antonio. It would behoove Petrie to allow Noc to find a nice contract in Europe and then work from a more level position of power. If Noc can get a 2/6 or 2/8 from a European team, I see him being honorable and reducing the Kings contract by that value. This is a very unique situation because Noc’s preference to continue to play and possibly return to Europe.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Yes, but honorable is how I would describe GP
He’s not going to dump Noc’s contract on a bad team and force Noc into an even worst situation. And, he’s not going to take on a bad contract just to appease Noc. That’s why I think the only true choices for the Kings are make him play out his contract or come to an agreement on a buy out.
So, I don’t know when, but I do expect that Noc gets a buy out before the start of training camp.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It will be sooner than that.
Petrie is going to want as much cap space as possible. Not becuase he will use it but being the guy with the big stack often makes life easier.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
i disagree
I think a critical thing everyone is not really considering is that in 1 year his expiring contract is more valuable to the Kings that whatever buy-out savings.
For example…we take your #3 option and essentially give $9.0M instead of $13.5 over the same period of time. Sounds great, we just saved $4.5M between this year and next…
Except, if we didn’t do a buyout we pay Noce this year’s salary ($6.85M) and then, in a year, he’s a veteran with an expiring contract due $6.65M in that final year (he has a team option too, but whatever). So we’d theoretically be able to flip his expiring contract for a bundle of goods then - which as a veteran with an expiring contract, would yield us more in return (i think) that a vetern with 2 years remaining. So if we wait 1 year, we’re only out Noce’s 2010 contract: $6.85M instead of the buy-out amount.
Not sure if this is a clear explanation…but the bottom line is, if Noce really wants to leave today, he’s got to come down a lot more than a few million bucks from his $13.5M.
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Except we couldn’t even flip K9 this year into anything and we had to buy him out…
Judgment day is coming!
Maybe
I’d like to know why that went down that way.
Maybe our front office just blew that.
Hey, if Utah can mismanage their salary cap into handing Eric Maynor to Oklahoma City for cash, then I guess anything is possible.
We have 20 mil. under the cap to play with. We really don’t need to clear more space.
We didn't buy him out
Just waived him.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
And by waiving him, the Kings bought out the remaining months on his contract.
Kenny Thomas had his contract bought out. He just didn’t negotiate a lower price to help the team because his career is all but over and every dime counts.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I think we are pretty much in agreement.
His contract IS the asset.
It gives us a better bargaining chip than any small amount (relatively speaking) we would save in a buyout.
It used to be an asset.
With the new CBA looming, nothing is guaranteed. Widowwolf is right. Look at Kenny Thomas. Look at all the other assets the Kings had this year that could have been used to purchase players with long term contracts. The Kings want to partake in this free agent class or be the conduit that allows another team to get those players. They showed us this last year with the Martin trade, the collecting of expiring assets and the retention of Kenny Thomas. The Kings are going to lay in waiting for a Chicago to come calling looking to dump Deng or Miami with Beasley (unless they draft Cousins) or any one of another half dozen players (Okafor, AK-47, Dalembert, Murphy….) that will be offered up for cap space alone.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
yup
Agreed…and some cash strapped team may hopefully yearn for that contract. Maybe not, but no use letting his contract go for the sake of saving a couple million today, when you could save around that same amount later.
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
How are you going to save that amount later?
Good teams would like to have Noc as a bench asset. The problem is, not very many good teams have cap space. The only way to save money with Noc is through buyout, trading him to a team with cap space of dealing him for a player within a 125% of his contract which isn’t going to come close to the savings of a buy out. I just don’t see a marginal team with cap space absorbing Noc and his contract.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Because
You’re proposing that via a buyout we’re gonna save some portion of Noce’s existing contract. Fine. But, if we don’t do a buyout, in a year he’ll be an expiring, which we could ideally flip to a team looking for expiring contracts and willing to give up either younger promising players with smaller contracts OR a better player than Noce will a longer, more expensive contract.
If this doesn’t pan out (which is entirely possible) we can certainly negotiate a buyout with Noce then…or release him outright. With the buyout or release, even if it’s not as much as the discount we’d get today, we’d get some relief even in a year - hence savings later. Worth a year to check out the landscape.
My point remains, his contract is more valuable than he is on the court - to us and other teams, especially in a year. So his buyout amount today should reflect that.
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you see the Kings spending all 23-24 million in cap space this off-season?
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
You guys are talking about taking a risk-
That you can find value for a player 1 1/2 years from now. What we are proposing is something like 4.5 million in straight cash savings and another 2.5 million in “cap savings” for a total of roughly 7 million of a 13.5 million dollar salary. Add to this that Noc is not happy and can become a bigger headache.
So you want to forgo 7 million in salary cap savings which translates to 4.5 million in cash savings because you might be able to get something of value in 1 1/2 years. That doesn’t make any sense. Would you rather have 3.5 million this year and then an additional 3.5 million more at the beginning of next season or maybe, possibly some value out of Noc at next years trade deadline? That is an easy question to answer.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Especially since you have other contracts like Beno/Cisco you can trade if you need to.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How many teams came offering young promicing players for K9's expiring contract
None.
Pay Noc, $6.75M this year in hopes of getting something of value at the trade deadline next season. You got better odds of winning the lottery as the 12th seed.
If you can save just $3M off his contract, that’s enough to buy a draft pick. That’s the best chance of getting young talent.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
this this this this
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 11, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Petrie won't buy a draft pick.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well, you know him better than I do. So, maybe not.
But, my point was that even getting $3M back from Noc’s guaranteed money is more valuable than letting him play out his contract.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Good point-
Save cash on Noc and then buy a pick. I like it.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Saving cash on Noc.
I can see that. But, who knows what happens though?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Maloofs will order Carl's hamburgers and a bottle of wine
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
i think we are going to end up buying him out
but we have to pursue a trade for him as hard as we can although nobody wants him without moving down
at first i thought maybe michael beasley until i realized that miami needs their cap room for FAs
the only plausible option I see is if that some team in the top 4 makes a terrible pick leaving us two “stars” left: favors, cousins
then we could take which player we didnt want and the warriors did want and only offer to exchange them if nocioni was included
which after i just explained it doesnt seem so plausible anymore
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
btw
what happened to that chapu4u guy…
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
banned - you missed his meltdown?
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Chapu2u is half the man Chapu4u was
Then the X-Files being, looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan with Isabella Rossellini lips and breath that reeked of vanilla Chig Champa,
did a slow-mo Matrix descent out of the butt end of the banana vessel and hovered above my bug-eyes, my gaping jaw, and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip and all I could think was: "I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice that I pissed my f***in' pants."
by kangsfan on Jun 10, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
It was some time ago. I don't remember the thread. Perhaps Pookey will know. He seems to remember such things.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Oops, just read that it is listed below.
Quite entertaining.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
You know how Cujo was a nice doggy then went suddenly rabid?
Same story with chapu. He went from harmless to pretty mean-spirited overnight.
Pacifist ass-kisser
by otis29 on Jun 10, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who was Cujo? A troll before my time?
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
It's a Steven King book/movie reference
a story about a dog that gets rabbies and goes all kinds of batshit insane.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks. I just got my cultural lesson for the day.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
yeah i missed it
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
anyone know the tread
or was it deleted?
Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings
I can't remember where it was
But it was hilarious. Much name-calling.
My only regret is that we lost shampoo4you in the bargain. He/she hasn’t been back.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
it was mostly bashing tyreke's past if I recall correctly
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Jun 10, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring him Back!
I was wondering why he wasn’t weighing in.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Jun 10, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep
Reading the thread, it seems like he got a raw deal and perhaps had a semi-valid point that just happened to tweak someone the wrong way. But I guess these kinds of decisions are hardly error-free.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Thanks for your two cents, CC
He was warned both on and off line, and he persisted. You’re entitled to your opinion, as you are entitled to open your own blog and establish your own rules.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
StR groupthink is overrated.
In the delusions of Pookeybrain is where it’s really at Yo!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No here too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's cool
I’m just assuming it was something beyond that thread, because I’d be surprised if you were banning someone for saying being convicted of a DUI was lesser than being connected, although not charged, with a murder. Not trying to redredge up that argument, by the way, just saying it was his opinion and he obviously voiced it vociferously. If you thought that crossed the line, so be it.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Wait a second, is NewEraKings realy CoolCat?
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
How did I miss that?
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Check out his comments and it makes sense
Not that there is anything wrong with his comments as NewEraKings or Coolcatreport.whatever it was. Just that the tone of the comments is the same.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 12, 2010 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Damn! Just read the exchange in the shootout thread and it was brutal.
Should I be very afraid?
There can only be one Noce!
Not at all
You’re a solid contributor, and you always wipe your feet before you come in.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yeah. The problem with Chapu4you was that he was always a hater
What worked for him is that most people thought he was joking. Though in the end it was pretty clear that he was never joking.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 11, 2010 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. The amazing part was that he hid that side of himself for so long.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
I'm fine with Noce
I understand his feelings and hope they extend to cutting us a very good deal so both sides can be happy. I worry about happiness winning over $$ though. Noce might be one of those few guys that it is true for however. If he can conditionally negotiate a two year deal in europe worth $3.5-$4 mil per (a fair value for him I think) I’ll be happy if the Kings pick up the rest of the tab.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
Hey, I'd like $3 mil a year to play two games a week rather than four myself.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
It's nice to know we have a new Kenny Thomas.
Andres Nocioni (woof!)
by DirtyDribblers on Jun 10, 2010 10:19 AM PDT reply actions
There's always something.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 10:33 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Redd's an expiring right?
I think it more likely that it would just be a straight swap.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
no he has a player option for next season
if his knee is fine I would do this trade even though redd would be expensive
Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings
Wow vfettke
Redd would be an expensive gamble . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I've been throwing this one out there for awhile
Basically the Bucks get to save $5 million on Redd’s deal and pay it over two years. Kings pay him his $18 million this year and get a mid first rounder
#vfettkefordraft
So I guess that means you're in favor of
Passing [on] the Buck?
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
that buck won't stop here
They give up too much
by betweentheeyes on Jun 10, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
If he REALLY wanted out...
AND hopes to go to a good team, then shut the eff up and let a draft day deal go down! If the Kings promised to move you, and you want out, then why threaten the Kings’ trade leverage by opening your mouth? Keep him, send his whiny ass to Reno until his contract expires.
You can't send a vet to the D-league.
A buy-out makes sense for both parties, as long as Noc is willing to be reasonable in his monetary demands, and it seems like he would be.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Failure
I mean there has to be at least a deal done in principle or else Noc is completely assinine to make these comments… Which could be the case given his past transgressions. Time will tell.
As to the deal being a failure.
I thought that all of those deals, done at that time, were about saving the Maloof’s money. That they weren’t about making the team better, but I guess that could be viewed as me being a bit cynical.
If you view saving money as the main deal and criteria then the deals were somewhat successful. If the deal was to make the Kings better then they are a failure.
The truth is, however, most likely that they were trying to save money, but still get players they liked. We know that Noc is going to cost them into the future if he stays, is traded for a worse contract, or even with a buy out. We also know that he hasn’t produced or made the Kings much better.
Given that I think we may have the answer… Seems like a failure to me or at best a marginal success.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Jun 10, 2010 12:31 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It was partly about money
but they wanted to change the culture as well
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
good trade @ the time
rember, the Kings dumped Miller’s huge contract and Salmons to start the rebuilding effort. On paper, Noc was a good add – gritty, tough D (on rep), who could score & reb from the 3, where Kings had only Cisco and Donte’ (who did nothin’ as rookie)
And IF (big IF) Noc had turned around his career, ala Doug Christie, in his new home, he might be viewed as steal at $6.5MM per year and it would be a good thing that he had 3 yrs left on his contract.
Good idea, bad result.
i have a suggestion.
i ran this trade by the ESPN trade machine just to see what it would do. the results are quite nice for both teams. it involves a certain Toronto Raptor. by the name of Jose Calderon. we are indeed of a point guard and he maybe a bit pricey. but i think he would be willing to play for us. at the least.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c3crok
food for thought i guess, or a fun conversation
thanks
I would require a first round pick to even consider this deal.
Just extra money spent on a player we don’t really want. It basically adds a year to the already bad noc contract.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
I like the idea of looking around for trades.
What about the Michael Beasley idea revisited?
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
thats what i was thinking
but why would miami take a big contract like nocioni and cloud up their cap space, they want to sign two big free agents…
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
They want to rid themselves of Michael Beasley.
What if the Kings traded Noc for Michael Beasley and either the 18th pick or a second round pick. Would that work?
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Miami wants to rid themselves of Beasley for cap space.
They need to resign Wade, but he won’t if they don’t bring in some help. If they dump Beasley they have enough cap space to sign Bosh or Amare. Beasley is only owed $5M, Noc is owed $6.75M, So, taking on Noc’s contract make things worse for them.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yes.
The Kings have plenty of cash for both Beasley and a near max money player even without buying Noc out. I don’t see this happening but if the Kings could buy-out Noc, I could see a Beasley trade and the signing of another 10-12 million dollar player as long as Cousins is not the ##5 pick.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
???
Reke’s a better PG than Jose, and Beno is just 1 step behind him. We dont need another PG, unless he’s a 3pt specialist. (Mo Williams)
KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS
We need SG more then PG right now, and we need more of a old Peja, 3 point specialist, someone who will hit their free throws, and someone who won’t get in the way of Reke’s drives..What I wouldn’t give for 10 years ago of Vlade and Peja
Reke
beno
Peja
JT
Vlade
Judgment day is coming!
Times have changed..........
Reke
Derozan?
Hedo
JT
Cousins/Monroe
We have a whole 2nd unit for 3pt shooting
Beno
Donte
Casspi
Landry
Hawes
KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS
Yeah i know but could you imagine Vlade feeding into Reke, who if no shot, kicks out Peja for the three…
Judgment day is coming!
I know this is a random observation
But my goodness, that is one pasty white boy in that photo!
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 1:55 PM PDT reply actions
No, no.
If I were Ailene Voisin, I’d have said something about alabaster biceps, and the obvious anguish he is feeling which is somehow tied to the way he was treated as a child.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
haha, right!
ElmersGlue4You
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
What does that even mean?
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He is Pasty...like,
Elmers Glue, and I worked a Chap4you RIP reference.
Anyways.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
Noc
Many things here may well be true
He doesn’t want to be here
He is overpaid
Contracts alas are guaranteed
The Kings want to give the younger/other players more time at this position
He wants to play for a winning team, (Kings fans would like to have a winning team, so both parties have that in common)
He is a gritty, physical and sometimes chippy type of player which is not a bad thing.
In short just because someone wants something doesn’t make it so. In short both Noc and many Kings fans would like for him to be else where for the money he makes but I can’t see this happening sadly
Question:
Suppose that after next year (2011-2012, the final year of Chapu’s contract), there’s a lockout. If the lockout lasts half the season, do the players forfeit half their salary? If the lockout cancels an entire season, do they forfeit that whole season’s salary?
If so, I wonder if this could enter into the Maloofs’ calculations as they consider buyouts. In essence, it would make the final year of Chapu’s contract partially unguaranteed (he’d only receive the money contractually due to him if there are NBA games occurring), which might make them less willing to buy him out unless it comes at a major discount. If Chapu makes the same calculation and expects to be playing in Europe, could it inspire him to take a cheap buyout as well, seeing as NBA contracts, though usually quite secure, may be less than secure for the 2011-2012 season?
Of course, none of that would enter into salary cap calculations, but it may be a concern in terms of actual dollars, which tend to actually matter to the actual Maloofs.
Interesting thought
They would be paid based on what the new collective bargaining agreement says, but the odds are it would be proportional to what % of the season is played.
If I were a betting man I would say half a season or more, meaning if I were Noc I would be thinking I would only be getting 10 of my 13 million at best. I would take a buy out at this seasons full rate and
then look at my options, Europe or USA.
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Something is brewing
Despite what many have said, I think Noc has trade value and it’s not just for Kings to trade down on draft day – the teams that might want Noc and willing to pay for him are probably teams that think they’re close and need a tough, savvy vet with his skills … maybe Orlando? Denver? OKC? Utah when Boozer departs? Spurs? Suns? Even with the new CBA, $6.5MM per is not crazy $$ if he fits in at the 3 for a team that needs a complementary piece
And most of those teams are drafting late 1st round, so maybe the Kings ship #33 and Noc for late 1st & comp salary for a younger player that can help more at 4,5 or 2. If he pans out, win-win … if not, he’s an expiring contract for his new team to trade next summer or ’12 trade deadline
To me, that makes more sense than buying him out or sitting on him for another 1.5 years.
not to be a bother but
Calderon shot 40.6 percent on 3s and 45.8 percent on long 2s, and those jumpers comprised most of his attempts. to be blunt he is a shooter, he does occasionally drive to the basket and when he does hes shockingly efficient. he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to create Reke would still bring the ball up and all he would most certainly help stretch opposing defense . however i do agree he does have a large contract. and the Raptors only pick once in this draft making it hard for them to sweeten the deal. even still i would take his slightly more reasonable contract then Hedo. the kings are looking for a solid PG/SG in this draft anyway. meh whatever
One man wolf pack....
Claderon is an effective shooter,
but not a prolific one. He takes less than a shot every 3 minutes, which ranks him near the bottom of the point guard list for shots taken per minute. To be fair, much of that is because he is a pass first PG. But he is not and never has been a scorer.
He does need to have the ball in his hands to create…for others. He has never shown himself to be a particularly great off the ball player. If that’s what you’re looking for, you can do a lot better than Calderon and that contract.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
his contract will be an asset???
I thought K9’s contract was going to be an asset one day too. Never happened. Instead we waived him. Move Noc or buy him out otherwise you may be waiving him one day too.
by noreboundsnorings on Jun 11, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions

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