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How Andres Nocioni Figures Into It All

In case you missed it, Andres Nocioni renewed his displeasure with the state of the Kings, and told Spanish-language media he won't return to the Kings, either because he will have been traded or because he will take a buy-out to escape his lucrative contract.

Part of what made Nocioni a decent acquisition (aside from the cap savings in the 2008-09 and 2009-10 seasons) is that this is who he is. He wants to play, and he'll fight to be on the court. Maybe his game as a bit of what Tim Thomas' would define as "fugazy" -- a lot of El Chapu's so-called defensive prowess is the old Coach K bit: Nocioni scowls and beats his chest and gets in his defensive crouch. He actually quite mediocre on defense. He sags off his man way too much, and his lateral quickness leaves much to be desired.

But I digress. I was trying to compliment him, wasn't I?

Star-divide

Oh, right, he's tough. He's spirited. He's a competitor. You can't fault him for that. Perhaps you can fault him for taking his displeasure so public for the second time in a year. (He made similar comments at the tail end of the thrilling 17-win '08-09 season.) But again: his career is more than halfway over, and his current team continues to stockpile 21-year-olds. I see where he's coming from.

In the end, to get his freedom, it will likely take sacrifice from Nocioni to leave town. The only trade Nocioni could be involved in would be the Kings moving down in the draft (packaging their own No. 5 pick with Nocioni for a team in the late lottery or thereabouts) or taking on a bad contract. As we've been over ad nauseum, Geoff Petrie isn't a fan of trading down. If he likes a player who'd be available at No. 10, he will pick that player at No. 5 without hesitation. We also understand the team isn't likely to take on a bad contract, mostly because bad contracts almost universally belong to veterans, and the team is focused on building through youth.

That leaves the buy-out, which would entail Nocioni giving up a substantial sum of future salary for the opportunity to sign elsewhere. It sounds good on paper, but getting players to relinquish cash is easier said than done. And really, to make it worth Sacramento's while, Nocioni needs to give up at least half his salary. He's owed $13.5 million over two seasons. When you consider Nocioni can be traded but his salary couldn't be in the event there's a buy-out, couple with the obvious fact that Nocioni's production (however middling and apparently superfluous) would be unavailable in the case of a buy-out ... it's not like the Kings can take a couple million in cash savings and cut him loose.

Well, they could, but they'd have a really hard time justifying it.

We're almost to the point where we need to decide whether the Nocioni trade was a failure. To do that, I'm afraid we need real answers about how deep into financial trouble the Maloofs were in 2009, and how much better things got this season. And I'm afraid those answers will never fully come out.

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Buy-out

I think the fact that in a year he’ll be an expiring contract is strong item to consider - as you pointed out. At which point, based on the likely revised CBA, his overinflated final year would represent a very attractive chip for the Kings. The Kings should consider this as part of the present value of Noce’s buyout. And, that in and of itself, may make his contract more appealing to other teams willing to take a veteran flier?

by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 9:41 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

this!

"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."

by SactoRyan on Jun 10, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think his deal is that bad myself

It’s decreasing, team option in a few seasons. He’s no K9, IMO.

Pacifist ass-kisser

by otis29 on Jun 10, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, not in that ball park

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Correct

NO WAY do the Kings buy him out.

What possible reason would they have to do this? This is a business. We would be throwing an asset (his contract) away for less than its true value. As we have seen repeatedly, salary slots and final year contracts are a HUGE element of today’s NBA. Nocioni is an asset that does not have to get on the court in order to help us. Next year we can likely unload him for value as some team will want his expiring contract. In the meantime Petrie can be very selective in any deal that could include Nocioni.

His whining has NOTHING to do with our franchise or plans. Who cares? If he is a distraction, the team can just send him home; if not, we can use him off of the bench until his contract expires or is traded. There is NO reason to buy him out.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

if he becomes back to Locker room, and you have to remember, this isn’t his last year, hes got another one to go..If the Maloofs have a chance to shed some money being spent, they will do it..Look at everything else they have done lately.K9 wasn’t an asset, he needed to get bought out and he was in the final year of his contract.

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

In the last year ALL you are doing is shedding salary as there is no additional year to divide a buyout amount with.

It IS interesting that they couldn’t trade his expiring deal though. I wonder why.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you just send him home and keep paying him...

instead of giving him a buyout for less money? 1 million, 2 million, 4 million whatever the savings, it’s still savings. Add to this the fact that the Kings get cash off the cap back if he signs anywhere else in the world as a professional basketball player.

I see three options-

1. A lateral trade of similar contracts that redistributes talent among teams- Noc for Diop/Muhammed.

2. A lop sided trade where the Kings take back a much higher priced player. Noc for Hedo.

3. A buyout. Kings save 20-30% of Noc. contract and get further relief with the
(new contract – league minimum x 1/2). Noc takes say 9 million instead of 13.5 distributed over 2 years (4.5 per). Noc signs a new 2yr/6 million dollar contract in Europe (3 mill a year). 3 million – 750,000 = 2.25 mill x 1/2 = 1.125 million. per season. Kings pay Noc 6.75 million over 2 years instead of 13.5 million.

Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. The Kings will exhaust options but in the end, negotiating a buy out is probably in the best interest for both the Kings and Noc. We are talking about nearly a 7 million dollar price break over two years. Cash that can be used on other players or for trades.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

nice breakdown, rec'd

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

While I agree with the intent of your post, I don't believe any future European contract

would give us cap relief as you state in item #3. I think we’d have to get Noc to factor his anticipated Euro salary into a lower initial buyout. Or allow him to seek a verbal on a Euro contract before finalizing the buyout agreement.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree there are problems with item number three.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to steal Pookey/Larry Coon's work but read this:
If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers — see question number 55), the player’s original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team — it doesn’t even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player’s new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead)

It’s pretty cut and dry here. Pookey posted this in another thread so I want to make sure the credit is given where it due. Larry Coon, which authored this information is the man in regards to the cap. Not that anyone is infallible but it’s pretty straight forward information.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

No steal it.

It’s not like I’m not stealing it from Coon.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

After you Pookey, I consider myself pretty good with this CBA stuff.

Sometimes it’s hard to get your head around it but Coon is spectacular. Maybe we can get your FAQ sheet re-posted and in the rec list for the impending free agency window.

I think we have also missed a very important point in the Nocioni article. He said:

They told me that they agree and that they will try to trade me to a team that’s competing, sometime by the draft that’s coming in 15 days. I just have to wait.

Is it just me or did Noc just tell us that the Kings are working on draft day trades? I find this amazing, cool, awesome…… The Kings need to be active early and often. If they believe that they can’t deal Noc, I see a quick buy-out from this information which also means that we should see a lot of action come FA. The Kings hold a lot of cards and this should be a wild 2 or 3 weeks.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd have to make tweaks for it.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yes he did or that's what Eddie's translation seemed to imply anyway.

I’ve always had the feeling that Brand’s contract is in play if the Kings want Favors or Cousins. (I see Favors being more likely at this point. But that’s me.)

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Something is brewing and I like it.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the 76ers are definitely a trade possibility and probably the only one in regards to the draft

Only reason to move up to 2 would be to select Favors.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't you mean Cousins?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would pray and hope they don't move up for Cousins

IMO Cousins is the type of guy who I wouldn’t move up for but if he’s the best available I wouldn’t mind too much.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

If they have their eye on him, which I hope and pray they do, they was get him rather risk losing him.

If they stay at the 5, they risk having to settle for Johnson, Monroe, or Whiteside.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

they will try to get him...

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey

If you missed it in the other thread, instructions on washing your keyboard in the dishwasher here.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

What Wally said.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

The SMART thing to do

would be to move Noc/#5 for Brand/#2 THEN deal #2 to the Wolves for #4,#16, #23. At that point, try and move Garcia for an expiring with one of those later picks to justify the Brand salary. Take Cousins at #4 and a guard at both #23 and #33.

by Smills9133 on Jun 10, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's assuming Philly does that.

Which is not necessarily a wise assumption.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

And if he did that, didn’t he just ruin GP’s nice secrecy he always has!

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt it.

I doubt any decision to trade down, on say Philly’s part, has been determined. It’s not like Stefanski is going to use Noc’s comments as a big thing against the Kings here. He can’t. Stefanski is likely aware of the teams that want to move up. He knows the Kings are looking at Favors & Cousins like he has.

I doubt this moves the needle of a draft day trade one way or the other to be honest.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was the most interesting part for me as well

I wouldn’t bet on a move being done by then but you never know.

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 10, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing though Eddie.

Even with that being said, it’s worth remembering that most teams do deals around the draft because right now they’re evaluating draft prospects. Come draft time, all the teams are talking so it’s much easier to get deals done then.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

It’s just hard for me to envision Petrie making deals draft day. It just seems out of character. We’ll see… shoudl be interesting either way

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 10, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mike Bibby was dealt for J-Will on draft day.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

When was that though?

2001? 2002?

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 11, 2010 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

2001

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sergio was essentially a draft deal right

although I think it happened prior to the actual draft.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

by hozr on Jun 11, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, he traded for Sergio last year

And after drafting Spencer he basically said they had tried to move up with six different teams. So it’s not completely out of his style, but yeah, his track record has been pretty quiet on draft day.

by nbrans on Jun 11, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally forgot about Sergio.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 11, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

No stress, I want to make sure my information is up to snuff so having others double check my work is always ok with me.

This is an exciting development. The cap implications of Noc taking a pay cut are huge. The Kings already have close to 21 million to work with. If they can shave another 2 or 3 million off that figure, they become players for multiple high quality players. I know a lot of people are against the Hedo idea but could you imagine adding Hedo, Cousins and a player like Lee and only giving up Noc and Garcia? Again, this is going to be a crazy couple of weeks.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Add Cousins and Lee

And we have some insane depth in the Frontcourt.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hawes would likely become expendable if this happened though

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps Hawes for DJ Augustin here.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've been preaching this deal for a long time.

If the Kings can add the depth in the front court, Augustin is a perfect trade candidate, as long as Felton signs back.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Augustin would be a great partner for Tyreke in my opinion

Can shoot and handle the ball, also young.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

A perfect swap IMO as well.

Petrie will be on the prowl for a combo guard if they don’t draft Wesley Johnson with the #5. Augustin, Nate Robinson, Pargo, TJ Ford (in a straight up swap for Noc) all come to mind as players that would work with the current backcourt.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have Jerome Randle.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm already convinced Nate Robinson will be a King next year.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too

I’ve accepted it and am slightly okay with it. I like Beno and Reke as starters. I have no problem with a cheap Nate rob

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hawes for Aaron Brooks

excites me a lot more and the Rockets could get Bradley or Bledsoe at #14 to replace Brooks. Hawes then gives the Rockets Yao-insurance in case he really doesn’t recover. Hawes would be great with Adelman.

by Smills9133 on Jun 10, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Houston does this?

"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"

by chenp22 on Jun 10, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

No. Houston does not do this.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

This.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, they don't do that either

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess I was saying "Houston does not do this"

but trying to get smills to realize..

"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"

by chenp22 on Jun 10, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

People are stupid.

Mushroom Mushroom!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guess so..

"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"

by chenp22 on Jun 11, 2010 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Augustin

Was bothered by an injury last season but he looked tough, real tough, his rookie year. He has the rare talent to create plays in the air, his ft% is great, and he’s a fantastic 3pt shooter.

ailene voisin is wack!

by Bambooozled on Jun 10, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just saw your chat with Coon. I'm linking it in my writeup at EC so you know. Thanks.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

No problem

Since you have it all copied up you mind making it a comment here?

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

There’s a clause in the contract that says what happens to unexercised options when the player is waived (and a buyout is a form ..of waiver). It depends on what that clause says. There are also things they can do upon mutual agreement — mutually amend the…contract to either eliminate the option or move the option window (if necessary) and the team can pick up the option before …waiving the player). So if they want to, they can work it either way. But if the player gets paid for the option year, the ...buyout applies to that year.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks Pook.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think what Sham was saying that Noc has no money for the team option.

Therefore it would only be spread out over 2. It’s possible both are right.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or more rather

It’s likely that Sham/Coon are both right. Sham in the particular circumstances, and Coon’s general rule.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, that is awesome.

If he would take 9 million in a buyout, as you suggested. That would be great, but then to have that 4.5 per year amount dropped another million or so when he signs in Europe. Sounds great.

That option is almost better than any trades I could see, unless we provide cap relief and get a nice pick or young player in return.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nice analysis.

I do have some disagreement with you on one factor. A buyout would have to remove so much of Nocioni’s contract to be of use that he wouldn’t ever agree to it. I think interest in Nocioni is FAR less than he would like to believe.

I agree with you on the other two.

I don’t want Hedo’s contract (although I have always liked him both as a player and as a teammate.)

I LOVE your #1. Any center who can play defense would be a welcome sight for two years (even if they have a bad contract).

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings already have major cap space.

Where this money comes into play is really for the owners. If they can shave some 4 or 5 million off the books over the next 2 years, it allows for Petrie to go a little bigger in free agency. If they need an extra 2 or 3 million up front to get a player to choose Sacramento then this could open that door. It also puts the Kings in the 23-24 million cap space range after the picks are signed which allows them to sign a big free agent and still have millions to make other moves like Hawes @ 3 million for a 6 to 8 million dollar player. Flexibility, that is what a buyout gets you.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It seems to me you are eliminating the possibility of moving Nocioni’s full contract in some other move.

It is not a given that his contract gives us LESS flexibility than would a buyout. If we move him this year we are on the hook for nothing, whereas in a buyout we are paying him to play elsewhere for the next two years.

I’m not saying that you are wrong necessarily, but it isn’t all that clear cut.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look, the Kings already went down this road and it took them no where,

No one wanted Noc at the deadline or in November when Petrie approached the Celtics for expiring contracts. And his contract is no better today than then. He still has 13.5 million owed over the next two years and with the uncertainty of the CBA, that is a lot to take on unless you are giving something bigger out in return. If the Kings can’t deal him in the days leading through the draft and into free agency, then I believe he will be bought out and sent packing. I only see him as a real asset in acquiring a bigger contract and even then , the Kings have the cash to absorb more than a max level player already so it will come down to whether or not another team will be willing to take back something in exchange for their player and at this point Noc is a negative asset in that kind of trade.

A hypothetical example: the 76ers are looking to unload Iggy and his remaining contract. The Kings offer Noc for Iggy while another team offers nothing for Iggy but a future second round pick. Iggy goes to that other team.

The only way I see this going down is my original 3 options. Noc is a negative trade chip right now and I very little room for change in that scenario. You don’t keep a guy who is willing to take a pay cut to walk for two years just in case he might have trade value later.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t see your point. Things change. Just because Nocioni wasn’t moved earlier doesn’t preclude the possibility of moving him later.

Besides, your hypothetical isn’t remotely real. Philadelphia isn’t giving Iguodala up for nothing. I think that any deal there involves Brand’s contract – in such a deal you can be sure that a contract like Nocioni’s has more value than a second round pick. It is about shedding salary as we have been discussing. His contract has value to US.

We are basically arguing just to argue. I agree with 85% of what you are saying. If the buyout is not saving us much, I just don’t think we should do it.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the Kings do a buyout (and that may depends on how trades work out first), then expect a 50 cents on the dollar buyout or somewhere around there.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

50 cents on the dollar trade?

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, buyout

Kings buy him out for half of what they owe. Works nicely for all parties involved. He’d be a likely star in Europe and could make quite a bit over there.

Pookey, what if Noc took a buyout at about $3.5 million for each year, whether its 2 or 3 or whatever. If he went and signed in Europe for $2 million a year he’d only count aas $1.5 million against our cap, right?

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't have time to think about the setoff right now.

Let’s walk down that road when Noc take a buyout V. It’s easier that way.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm... okay

I thought it was a pretty easy question. Guess not. God I love the salary cap

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not an easy question to answer without knowing the details of A) the buyout and B) a new contract that Noc signs.

Okay?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is especially true with a European contract.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good thing the Kings have a good attorney to work this out.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Has nothing to do with the Greek prez lady or Levien. (I can't spell her name off the top of my head.)

It has to do with financials that won’t be known until down the road. When you know that stuff, then you can take care of all those things. Right now we’re too far ahead of the game to speculate on money specifics. Unlike Mikki Moore whom we could reasonably guess what setoff would be, that was partly because we knew that Moore was owed 2 million for this past season and what not. Situation is a bit different with Noc.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

But I asked a hypothetical question with hypothetical financials given

and her names Matina Kolokotronis. And she’s a bit of a cougar:

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hercules, Hercules.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Looks like 'Reke passed her that invisible sandwich.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 10, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like she is hypothetically measuring something.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

she seems to be a classy lady

and you handled that remark very appropriately. Nice to see.

by betweentheeyes on Jun 10, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

She does seem like a very classy lady.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

arg sorry

Read it completely wrong. Thought it read “If the Kings DON’T do a buyout then expect a 50 cents on the dollar buyout …”

Hence my confusion.

As an unrelated sidenote, I don’t know how to read or right good. It’s a good thing I have a job that deals with reading and writing. Awesome.

The internet is destroying my brain

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not a dollar for dollar savings.
The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player’s new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran

Per the quote cited by jj above.

Minimum salary for a 1 year player is around 750k per here

So, using your example of a $7 million buy out and Noc signing for 2 million a year. The way I read it, it would look like this:

$3.5 million – 1/2($2 million – $750k) = 3.5 mil – 625k = $2.875 million counted against our cap for each of the next two years.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Noc will take so little.

The normal buy-out for a player has always been a small break for the team. Nocioni is in a different situation but the players union is going to have major issues if he takes 50-60%. If Noc really wants out and already has something waiting in Europe then maybe he takes a 3 million dollar hit in each season but that is a lot of cash to leave on the table.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Noc might

But I doubt his agent will.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. Was just using vfettke's numbers since it was his question

I think if we end up buying him out, his buyout amount plus his Euro contract will equal right around 13.5 million. So, maybe he takes a buyout of 9 mil and signs for 2 mil a year. He doesn’t leave much cash on the table and we end up saving a couple of mil a year.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he doesn't accept it, he can just sit at the end of the bench next season.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe that the right of set-off is used when the Player refuses to a buyout and is waived

If Noc is willing to negotiate a buyout then the right of set-off can be waived if both parties agree. Noc can agree to any buyout amount and waive his right of set-off.

If both parties agreed upon $8M as the buyout amount, then the Kings would have $4M of the buyout added to their team salary for each of the two remaining years of his contract. The option years isn’t considered as part of the contract unless the option is accepted which it would be.

Noc could sign anywhere at any amount or length of time and it wouldn’t affect what the Kings pay. One last thing, Noc can agree to have the $8M paid over 4 year, but for salary cap issues the Kings would still only use the 2 years left on his contact.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh

HOw did you come up with this logic? I’ve never heard that a team couldn’t pursue setoff if a buyout is reached.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't say that the team couldn't persue set-off

They can certainly refuse to waive it, but it’s in the players best interest to have it waived.

 His buyout amount is the new amount he is owed under his contract. If the player agrees to a buyout of 50% of what he’s owed, the set-off can only lower his buyout.

So, the player won’t agree to a buy out and right of set-off.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Noc can't get his freedom otherwise.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

7AzAnd, if the

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Keyboard died, sorry

Noc can’t get his freedom, and the Kings get stuck for the full $13M. Unless they can trade him. And, if they can trade him what are they going to get back, a great player, a draft pick or some young talent with potential.

No, their going to get more bad contracts. A buy out is a win-win for the team and player. You take the best deal you can make and you part ways friends. That’s GP’s style.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Aren't you just dismissing the idea of a trade, too quickly?

Right now, Kings have a bad contract with a player who doesn’t want to be here (potential cancer). Even if they traded him for another bad contract, they would get a guy who has a better mind-set (one would hope) for being in Sacramento. That could be a win situation. At least they would get a player who contributes, rather than spending money for nothing.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's the bird in the hand theory

We don’t know if we can trade him for anything valuable. And, we might not be able to grant his wish to be traded to a contender. Giving he the opportunity to return to Spain, may be the best thing for his family.

So, if we can come to an arrangement, that saves the Kings even $4-5M over two years and makes his family happy, why not.

Remember the money saved could be added to a bid for a fa which could help us outbid our competition. And, $3m is the going rate for a non-lottery draft pick. So, a buy out may be the best thing for both parties.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see your points. The thing that gets me...

Noc won’t be giving the Kings any services when he leaves, so I have a problem paying him a ton of money to basically walk away.

Your argument is that it clears some money off the books to use for something else like a FA or non-lottery draft pick.

It sounds like the GMs look at money as chips to be used for acquisition opportunities. Just having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

There once was a guy who played for the Kings

whom they traded for three smaller priced players. This one guy had one of the largest contracts in the League. Nonetheless, the team that acquired him kept him for a season and decided that it was better for their team and their future if they just agreed to a buyout and paid this player forty million US American dollars to just leave and go away. The folks in New York (well Isiah Thomas) were so impressed they did the same thing to A HeadCoach.
Paying Andres Nocioni a buyout may be the prudent and amicable thing to do, it may be the best business move to do and it may be the best personal move as well. This is not ground breaking precedent.

by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Bte says it well.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 12, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

He usually does -

Which is why I hate him so much…

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 12, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

You shouldn't hate a bald Jew since you're near that fate yourself.

It’s bad form me thinks.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 12, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow. Forty million to just leave.

You’re right. It is not ground-breaking precedent. For me, it is still new, as I hadn’t thought this through, before.

You did a very nice job of explaining it, bte. At first the idea seems counter-intuitive – to pay someone a ton of money to just go away, but now it is beginning to make more sense that in the end there will be a savings, which will free up a team to have more flexibility.

Thanks guys!

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 12, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

HP paid Fiorina $21 million to leave

I always tell my boss that I’ll leave for a cool mil. That’s value!

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 12, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

You know you have arrived, when you can retire on what someone is willing to pay you, just to see you go.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 12, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

well yeah of course

that’s why everyone wants to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 13, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would want to be the CEO cuz of the money and no other reason.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2010 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just found this on Coons, question 56

dealing with set-off

Teams and players may negotiate a waiver of the team’s set-off rights. Typically (but not necessarily) this is done when a contract is altered as part of a buyout (see question number 61), but not at other times.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

No v, the buyout and set-off are not the same.

The set-off is waivable. Noc would want it waived, since it would only reduce the amount of his buy out which is already a reduction of his guaranteed salary.
 
If he agrees to a buy out at less then what he is owed, then half of that is the amount of salary charged to the Kings team salary over the next two years and nothing more.

The third year of the contract is an option and options aren’t counted as part of the contract until the option or ETO is exercise. Which the Kings wouldn’t do/

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings won't waive the set off.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then Noc might not agree to a buy out amount.

Even if Noc were to get the same contract from a European team, the Kings would only save $3M per year. One half the difference between his new contract and min vet scale of $750K. So, $6.75M – $0.75M = $6M /3= $3M is the set-off so the Kings still need to pay Noc $6.75M-$3M= $3.75M

Now Noc isn’t getting that kind of money in Europe. Which means the set-off is going to be far less. So, it’s in the best interest of the team to accept a guaranteed savings of $2-3M per year then to gamble and have him sign a $1.5M contract in Europe and end up still having to pay him $6M per year.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

This all gets very confusing.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

In what way?

the money, or the difference between a set-off and a buyout.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

All of it. There are a number of various options which could occur with difference consequences.

This is worthy of a fanpost.

$6M /3= $3M

BTW $6M/3 = $2M

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay. I am obviously missing something.

Let me put my reasoning into concrete terms and maybe you or someone else can tell me where I am off in my reasoning.

Let’s say I contract a baker to bake me a birthday cake for each of the next two years. If I like his cakes, I may extend his contract a third year. Each cake costs $300, so I have committed $600 for the two future cakes.

Later, the baker comes to me and says his wife doesn’t like to live here and wants to move. He says that if I pay him $300 he will go away and I won’t have that commitment to pay him. I don’t want to pay him because I won’t get any cakes for my birthday.

Finally, feeling sorry for his situation, I pay him $300, which leaves me $300 to use any way I want. I still want my birthday cakes, but now I only have $300 to contract for two cakes.

How do I come out ahead?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because it's better than the 600 dollars you're guaranteed to pay him.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if he plays.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is it better?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because there's no point to pay someone money you don't have to.

Especially when you have better players. This is the reality of doing business in the NBA. Some players won’t take a buyout because they don’t have an opportunity to play elsewhere.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

So in my metaphor...

I don’t initially contract with the baker, someone else does. Someone else paid him more than he is worth. I ended up getting this baker, through a trade of other goods, along with his weighty contract. When the opportunity comes to get rid of this baker, I am willing to pay him half, because I really don’t want to pay him the whole amount.

Okay, I’ve got it.

Thanks.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup you got it now.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad typeing and proof reading

That was supposed to be $6M/2 =$3M.
If the set-off isn’t waived the team gets salary relief of 1/2 of the difference. So if the difference is $6M than 1/2 is $3M.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

That helps.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we are having an issue here.

From my understanding, the right of set-off has nothing to do with the players pay. Noc will work his buy-out and then if he signs somewhere else the Kings get to do a “salary cap paper write-off” based on the players new salary. The player doesn’t have to give money back, it is just a reduction in cap responsibility for the team.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

So in effect....

Noc agrees to a 2 yr 9 million dollar buy-out. The Kings save 4.5 million in actual pay. Noc signs with another team for 2 yr/6 mill. The Kings don’t receive any of this money, Noc now makes 15 million total. Then the whole 3 million – 750,000 × 1/2 thing happens. This figure is then knocked off the Kings cap figure as an exemption of sorts.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is from Coon's question 56

It says

If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers — see question number 55), the player’s original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team

So, as I read it they get to reduce the teams salary because they aren’t paying the player the original guaranteed portion of the contract. They have reduced the guarantee by the amount of the set-off.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good find.

I remember this situation when Michael Finley got bought out by Dallas and signed with San Antonio. It would behoove Petrie to allow Noc to find a nice contract in Europe and then work from a more level position of power. If Noc can get a 2/6 or 2/8 from a European team, I see him being honorable and reducing the Kings contract by that value. This is a very unique situation because Noc’s preference to continue to play and possibly return to Europe.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, but honorable is how I would describe GP

He’s not going to dump Noc’s contract on a bad team and force Noc into an even worst situation. And, he’s not going to take on a bad contract just to appease Noc. That’s why I think the only true choices for the Kings are make him play out his contract or come to an agreement on a buy out.

So, I don’t know when, but I do expect that Noc gets a buy out before the start of training camp.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

It will be sooner than that.

Petrie is going to want as much cap space as possible. Not becuase he will use it but being the guy with the big stack often makes life easier.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

i disagree

I think a critical thing everyone is not really considering is that in 1 year his expiring contract is more valuable to the Kings that whatever buy-out savings.

For example…we take your #3 option and essentially give $9.0M instead of $13.5 over the same period of time. Sounds great, we just saved $4.5M between this year and next…

Except, if we didn’t do a buyout we pay Noce this year’s salary ($6.85M) and then, in a year, he’s a veteran with an expiring contract due $6.65M in that final year (he has a team option too, but whatever). So we’d theoretically be able to flip his expiring contract for a bundle of goods then - which as a veteran with an expiring contract, would yield us more in return (i think) that a vetern with 2 years remaining. So if we wait 1 year, we’re only out Noce’s 2010 contract: $6.85M instead of the buy-out amount.

Not sure if this is a clear explanation…but the bottom line is, if Noce really wants to leave today, he’s got to come down a lot more than a few million bucks from his $13.5M.

by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Except we couldn’t even flip K9 this year into anything and we had to buy him out…

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only way an expiring contract helps is if you’re willing to take on a multi-year contract that another team doesn’t want. This past trading deadline, we weren’t willing to take on any multi-year contracts.

by twasserm on Jun 10, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I’d like to know why that went down that way.

Maybe our front office just blew that.

Hey, if Utah can mismanage their salary cap into handing Eric Maynor to Oklahoma City for cash, then I guess anything is possible.

We have 20 mil. under the cap to play with. We really don’t need to clear more space.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

We didn't buy him out

Just waived him.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

And by waiving him, the Kings bought out the remaining months on his contract.

Kenny Thomas had his contract bought out. He just didn’t negotiate a lower price to help the team because his career is all but over and every dime counts.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you JJ, was just about to say same thing..

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we are pretty much in agreement.

His contract IS the asset.

It gives us a better bargaining chip than any small amount (relatively speaking) we would save in a buyout.

by Hoops Mike on Jun 10, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

It used to be an asset.

With the new CBA looming, nothing is guaranteed. Widowwolf is right. Look at Kenny Thomas. Look at all the other assets the Kings had this year that could have been used to purchase players with long term contracts. The Kings want to partake in this free agent class or be the conduit that allows another team to get those players. They showed us this last year with the Martin trade, the collecting of expiring assets and the retention of Kenny Thomas. The Kings are going to lay in waiting for a Chicago to come calling looking to dump Deng or Miami with Beasley (unless they draft Cousins) or any one of another half dozen players (Okafor, AK-47, Dalembert, Murphy….) that will be offered up for cap space alone.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup

Agreed…and some cash strapped team may hopefully yearn for that contract. Maybe not, but no use letting his contract go for the sake of saving a couple million today, when you could save around that same amount later.

by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

How are you going to save that amount later?

Good teams would like to have Noc as a bench asset. The problem is, not very many good teams have cap space. The only way to save money with Noc is through buyout, trading him to a team with cap space of dealing him for a player within a 125% of his contract which isn’t going to come close to the savings of a buy out. I just don’t see a marginal team with cap space absorbing Noc and his contract.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because

You’re proposing that via a buyout we’re gonna save some portion of Noce’s existing contract. Fine. But, if we don’t do a buyout, in a year he’ll be an expiring, which we could ideally flip to a team looking for expiring contracts and willing to give up either younger promising players with smaller contracts OR a better player than Noce will a longer, more expensive contract.

If this doesn’t pan out (which is entirely possible) we can certainly negotiate a buyout with Noce then…or release him outright. With the buyout or release, even if it’s not as much as the discount we’d get today, we’d get some relief even in a year - hence savings later. Worth a year to check out the landscape.

My point remains, his contract is more valuable than he is on the court - to us and other teams, especially in a year. So his buyout amount today should reflect that.

by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jun 10, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you see the Kings spending all 23-24 million in cap space this off-season?

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

All depends.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

You guys are talking about taking a risk-

That you can find value for a player 1 1/2 years from now. What we are proposing is something like 4.5 million in straight cash savings and another 2.5 million in “cap savings” for a total of roughly 7 million of a 13.5 million dollar salary. Add to this that Noc is not happy and can become a bigger headache.

So you want to forgo 7 million in salary cap savings which translates to 4.5 million in cash savings because you might be able to get something of value in 1 1/2 years. That doesn’t make any sense. Would you rather have 3.5 million this year and then an additional 3.5 million more at the beginning of next season or maybe, possibly some value out of Noc at next years trade deadline? That is an easy question to answer.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 10, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Especially since you have other contracts like Beno/Cisco you can trade if you need to.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 10, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not Beno!!!!

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

How many teams came offering young promicing players for K9's expiring contract

None.

Pay Noc, $6.75M this year in hopes of getting something of value at the trade deadline next season. You got better odds of winning the lottery as the 12th seed.

If you can save just $3M off his contract, that’s enough to buy a draft pick. That’s the best chance of getting young talent.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

this this this this

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 11, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Petrie won't buy a draft pick.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, you know him better than I do. So, maybe not.

But, my point was that even getting $3M back from Noc’s guaranteed money is more valuable than letting him play out his contract.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point-

Save cash on Noc and then buy a pick. I like it.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Saving cash on Noc.

I can see that. But, who knows what happens though?

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Maloofs will order Carl's hamburgers and a bottle of wine

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think we are going to end up buying him out

but we have to pursue a trade for him as hard as we can although nobody wants him without moving down

at first i thought maybe michael beasley until i realized that miami needs their cap room for FAs

the only plausible option I see is if that some team in the top 4 makes a terrible pick leaving us two “stars” left: favors, cousins
then we could take which player we didnt want and the warriors did want and only offer to exchange them if nocioni was included

which after i just explained it doesnt seem so plausible anymore

"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.

by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 10:16 AM PDT reply actions  

btw

what happened to that chapu4u guy…

"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.

by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 10:16 AM PDT reply actions  

banned - you missed his meltdown?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I missed it to

Damn. He could’ve at least signed up as Chapu2You

What happened?

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oops, just read that it is listed below.

Quite entertaining.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know how Cujo was a nice doggy then went suddenly rabid?

Same story with chapu. He went from harmless to pretty mean-spirited overnight.

Pacifist ass-kisser

by otis29 on Jun 10, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who was Cujo? A troll before my time?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a Steven King book/movie reference

a story about a dog that gets rabbies and goes all kinds of batshit insane.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 10, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks. I just got my cultural lesson for the day.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah i missed it

"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.

by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

anyone know the tread

or was it deleted?

Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings

by morecasspi on Jun 10, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't remember where it was

But it was hilarious. Much name-calling.

My only regret is that we lost shampoo4you in the bargain. He/she hasn’t been back.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

damn

can’t believe I missed it!!

by Dub_TC on Jun 10, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

it was mostly bashing tyreke's past if I recall correctly

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Jun 10, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bring him Back!

I was wondering why he wasn’t weighing in.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Jun 10, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

Reading the thread, it seems like he got a raw deal and perhaps had a semi-valid point that just happened to tweak someone the wrong way. But I guess these kinds of decisions are hardly error-free.

"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal

by NewEraKings on Jun 11, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nah

I was pretty pro-Chapu, and still agreed that he needed to go.

Pacifist ass-kisser

by otis29 on Jun 11, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for your two cents, CC

He was warned both on and off line, and he persisted. You’re entitled to your opinion, as you are entitled to open your own blog and establish your own rules.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 11, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

StR Groupthink!!

That’s what it is

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 11, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

StR groupthink is overrated.

In the delusions of Pookeybrain is where it’s really at Yo!

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's at EC Inc though

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 11, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

No here too.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......

Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's cool

I’m just assuming it was something beyond that thread, because I’d be surprised if you were banning someone for saying being convicted of a DUI was lesser than being connected, although not charged, with a murder. Not trying to redredge up that argument, by the way, just saying it was his opinion and he obviously voiced it vociferously. If you thought that crossed the line, so be it.

"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal

by NewEraKings on Jun 11, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait a second, is NewEraKings realy CoolCat?

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 11, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

How did I miss that?

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Check out his comments and it makes sense

Not that there is anything wrong with his comments as NewEraKings or Coolcatreport.whatever it was. Just that the tone of the comments is the same.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 12, 2010 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not at all

You’re a solid contributor, and you always wipe your feet before you come in.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 11, 2010 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. The problem with Chapu4you was that he was always a hater

What worked for him is that most people thought he was joking. Though in the end it was pretty clear that he was never joking.

Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru

by Kfan in Korea on Jun 11, 2010 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly. The amazing part was that he hid that side of himself for so long.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with Noce

I understand his feelings and hope they extend to cutting us a very good deal so both sides can be happy. I worry about happiness winning over $$ though. Noce might be one of those few guys that it is true for however. If he can conditionally negotiate a two year deal in europe worth $3.5-$4 mil per (a fair value for him I think) I’ll be happy if the Kings pick up the rest of the tab.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Hey, I'd like $3 mil a year to play two games a week rather than four myself.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's always something.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 10:33 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Redd's an expiring right?

I think it more likely that it would just be a straight swap.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 10, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

no he has a player option for next season

if his knee is fine I would do this trade even though redd would be expensive

Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings

by morecasspi on Jun 10, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow vfettke

Redd would be an expensive gamble . . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 10:47 AM PDT reply actions  

I've been throwing this one out there for awhile

Basically the Bucks get to save $5 million on Redd’s deal and pay it over two years. Kings pay him his $18 million this year and get a mid first rounder

#vfettkefordraft

by vfettke on Jun 10, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

So I guess that means you're in favor of

Passing [on] the Buck?

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

by hozr on Jun 10, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he REALLY wanted out...

AND hopes to go to a good team, then shut the eff up and let a draft day deal go down! If the Kings promised to move you, and you want out, then why threaten the Kings’ trade leverage by opening your mouth? Keep him, send his whiny ass to Reno until his contract expires.

by IamPurple on Jun 10, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

You can't send a vet to the D-league.

A buy-out makes sense for both parties, as long as Noc is willing to be reasonable in his monetary demands, and it seems like he would be.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Failure

I mean there has to be at least a deal done in principle or else Noc is completely assinine to make these comments… Which could be the case given his past transgressions. Time will tell.

As to the deal being a failure.

I thought that all of those deals, done at that time, were about saving the Maloof’s money. That they weren’t about making the team better, but I guess that could be viewed as me being a bit cynical.

If you view saving money as the main deal and criteria then the deals were somewhat successful. If the deal was to make the Kings better then they are a failure.

The truth is, however, most likely that they were trying to save money, but still get players they liked. We know that Noc is going to cost them into the future if he stays, is traded for a worse contract, or even with a buy out. We also know that he hasn’t produced or made the Kings much better.

Given that I think we may have the answer… Seems like a failure to me or at best a marginal success.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Jun 10, 2010 12:31 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

This.

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was partly about money

but they wanted to change the culture as well

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jun 10, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

good trade @ the time

rember, the Kings dumped Miller’s huge contract and Salmons to start the rebuilding effort. On paper, Noc was a good add – gritty, tough D (on rep), who could score & reb from the 3, where Kings had only Cisco and Donte’ (who did nothin’ as rookie)

And IF (big IF) Noc had turned around his career, ala Doug Christie, in his new home, he might be viewed as steal at $6.5MM per year and it would be a good thing that he had 3 yrs left on his contract.

Good idea, bad result.

by Watty4ever on Jun 10, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

i have a suggestion.

i ran this trade by the ESPN trade machine just to see what it would do. the results are quite nice for both teams. it involves a certain Toronto Raptor. by the name of Jose Calderon. we are indeed of a point guard and he maybe a bit pricey. but i think he would be willing to play for us. at the least.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c3crok
food for thought i guess, or a fun conversation

thanks

by fffindeed on Jun 10, 2010 12:51 PM PDT reply actions  

I would require a first round pick to even consider this deal.

Just extra money spent on a player we don’t really want. It basically adds a year to the already bad noc contract.

"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."

by SactoRyan on Jun 10, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the idea of looking around for trades.

What about the Michael Beasley idea revisited?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 10, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

thats what i was thinking

but why would miami take a big contract like nocioni and cloud up their cap space, they want to sign two big free agents…

"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.

by Surprise Team on Jun 10, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

They want to rid themselves of Michael Beasley.

What if the Kings traded Noc for Michael Beasley and either the 18th pick or a second round pick. Would that work?

Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden

by Slam_Dunk on Jun 11, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Miami wants to rid themselves of Beasley for cap space.

They need to resign Wade, but he won’t if they don’t bring in some help. If they dump Beasley they have enough cap space to sign Bosh or Amare. Beasley is only owed $5M, Noc is owed $6.75M, So, taking on Noc’s contract make things worse for them.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 11, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

The Kings have plenty of cash for both Beasley and a near max money player even without buying Noc out. I don’t see this happening but if the Kings could buy-out Noc, I could see a Beasley trade and the signing of another 10-12 million dollar player as long as Cousins is not the ##5 pick.

Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.

PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.

by jjham15 on Jun 11, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

???

Reke’s a better PG than Jose, and Beno is just 1 step behind him. We dont need another PG, unless he’s a 3pt specialist. (Mo Williams)

KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS

by haze0945 on Jun 10, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need SG more then PG right now, and we need more of a old Peja, 3 point specialist, someone who will hit their free throws, and someone who won’t get in the way of Reke’s drives..What I wouldn’t give for 10 years ago of Vlade and Peja

Reke
beno
Peja
JT
Vlade

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Times have changed..........

Reke
Derozan?
Hedo
JT
Cousins/Monroe

We have a whole 2nd unit for 3pt shooting
Beno
Donte
Casspi
Landry
Hawes

KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS

by haze0945 on Jun 10, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah i know but could you imagine Vlade feeding into Reke, who if no shot, kicks out Peja for the three…

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jun 10, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rehab

for Weed-n-Knee

Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.

by Shadrack on Jun 10, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know this is a random observation

But my goodness, that is one pasty white boy in that photo!

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 1:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Voisen'd

Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.

by Shadrack on Jun 10, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, no.

If I were Ailene Voisin, I’d have said something about alabaster biceps, and the obvious anguish he is feeling which is somehow tied to the way he was treated as a child.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

haha, right!

ElmersGlue4You

Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.

by Shadrack on Jun 10, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is Pasty...like,

Elmers Glue, and I worked a Chap4you RIP reference.

Anyways.

Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.

by Shadrack on Jun 10, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Noc

Many things here may well be true

He doesn’t want to be here

He is overpaid

Contracts alas are guaranteed

The Kings want to give the younger/other players more time at this position

He wants to play for a winning team, (Kings fans would like to have a winning team, so both parties have that in common)

He is a gritty, physical and sometimes chippy type of player which is not a bad thing.

In short just because someone wants something doesn’t make it so. In short both Noc and many Kings fans would like for him to be else where for the money he makes but I can’t see this happening sadly

by Murf on Jun 10, 2010 3:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Question:

Suppose that after next year (2011-2012, the final year of Chapu’s contract), there’s a lockout. If the lockout lasts half the season, do the players forfeit half their salary? If the lockout cancels an entire season, do they forfeit that whole season’s salary?

If so, I wonder if this could enter into the Maloofs’ calculations as they consider buyouts. In essence, it would make the final year of Chapu’s contract partially unguaranteed (he’d only receive the money contractually due to him if there are NBA games occurring), which might make them less willing to buy him out unless it comes at a major discount. If Chapu makes the same calculation and expects to be playing in Europe, could it inspire him to take a cheap buyout as well, seeing as NBA contracts, though usually quite secure, may be less than secure for the 2011-2012 season?

Of course, none of that would enter into salary cap calculations, but it may be a concern in terms of actual dollars, which tend to actually matter to the actual Maloofs.

by twasserm on Jun 10, 2010 4:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Interesting thought

They would be paid based on what the new collective bargaining agreement says, but the odds are it would be proportional to what % of the season is played.
If I were a betting man I would say half a season or more, meaning if I were Noc I would be thinking I would only be getting 10 of my 13 million at best. I would take a buy out at this seasons full rate and
then look at my options, Europe or USA.

There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.

by ElRonToro on Jun 10, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Something is brewing

Despite what many have said, I think Noc has trade value and it’s not just for Kings to trade down on draft day – the teams that might want Noc and willing to pay for him are probably teams that think they’re close and need a tough, savvy vet with his skills … maybe Orlando? Denver? OKC? Utah when Boozer departs? Spurs? Suns? Even with the new CBA, $6.5MM per is not crazy $$ if he fits in at the 3 for a team that needs a complementary piece

And most of those teams are drafting late 1st round, so maybe the Kings ship #33 and Noc for late 1st & comp salary for a younger player that can help more at 4,5 or 2. If he pans out, win-win … if not, he’s an expiring contract for his new team to trade next summer or ’12 trade deadline

To me, that makes more sense than buying him out or sitting on him for another 1.5 years.

by Watty4ever on Jun 10, 2010 6:59 PM PDT reply actions  

not to be a bother but

Calderon shot 40.6 percent on 3s and 45.8 percent on long 2s, and those jumpers comprised most of his attempts. to be blunt he is a shooter, he does occasionally drive to the basket and when he does hes shockingly efficient. he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to create Reke would still bring the ball up and all he would most certainly help stretch opposing defense . however i do agree he does have a large contract. and the Raptors only pick once in this draft making it hard for them to sweeten the deal. even still i would take his slightly more reasonable contract then Hedo. the kings are looking for a solid PG/SG in this draft anyway. meh whatever

One man wolf pack....

by fffindeed on Jun 10, 2010 7:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Claderon is an effective shooter,

but not a prolific one. He takes less than a shot every 3 minutes, which ranks him near the bottom of the point guard list for shots taken per minute. To be fair, much of that is because he is a pass first PG. But he is not and never has been a scorer.

He does need to have the ball in his hands to create…for others. He has never shown himself to be a particularly great off the ball player. If that’s what you’re looking for, you can do a lot better than Calderon and that contract.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 10, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

ailene voisin is wack!

by Bambooozled on Jun 10, 2010 8:58 PM PDT reply actions  

his contract will be an asset???

     I thought K9’s contract was going to be an asset one day too. Never happened. Instead we waived him. Move Noc or buy him out otherwise you may be waiving him one day too.

by noreboundsnorings on Jun 11, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions  

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