GM Gone Wild
by section214 on Jun 18, 2010 9:15 PM PDT
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"No I'm not crazy, and neither am I. Next question!"
From 1998 to 2000, Geoff Petrie scorched the earth. He drafted Jason Williams. He traded Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber. He signed Vlade Divac, as well as Vernon Maxwell and Jon Barry and Scot Pollard (among others). He signed Peja Stojakovic, whom he had drafted the year prior. He drafted Hedo Turkoglu, signed Bobby Jackson, and traded Corliss Williamson for Doug Christie.
These were the moves of an aggressive and fearless general manager. Williams, Webber and Maxwell had "pasts," and Divac had to be overpaid to get him to come to Sacramento (or so the story goes). Peja and Hedo were unknowns; at least to most everyone not named Geoff Petrie. Ballsy moves that paid off in spades.
From 2001 to 2004, the deals abated, but impact was still felt. Williams for Bibby in 2001. Hedo and Pollard for Miller in 2003. Petrie became known as a conservative, a guy that pondered much, but rarely acted on his ponderings.
In 2005 – 2006, Petrie picked up the pace a bit, but was still thought of as a pragmatist:
2005 – The Webber deal. Bobby Jackson and Greg Ostertag for Bonzi Wells.
2006 - Peja for Ron Artest. I find this time interesting, because many are saying that Petrie is now building a tough as nails team for the first time. Show of hands – how many people would like to mix it up with Bonzi or Ron-Ron? Later, Petrie pulls John Salmons away from Toronto, leaving Bonzi Wells in the dust after Wells rebuffed a 5 year, $35 million offer.
2007 was fairly quiet, and many began wondering, is Petrie conservative, or dead?
And then 2008 rolled around, and somebody spiked Geoff Petrie’s coffee. The ponderer was gone, replaced by a guy that was suddenly making deals as if he were in a fantasy league. Since 2008:
Mike Bibby traded,
Jason Thompson (?!?) drafted with the 12th pick.
Ron Artest traded for Bobby Jackson, Donté Greene and a draft pick (that would become Omri Casspi).
Traded Brad Miller and John Salmons for Andres Nocioni. Also traded Shelden Williams and Bobby Brown for Rashad McCants and Calvin Booth.
Swapped 2nd round picks with Portland, netting Sergio Rodriguez and cash to pay his salary.
Drafted Tyreke Evans over fan favorite Ricky Rubio.
Traded Kevin Martin and Hilton Armstrong for Carl Landry and Joey Dorsey. Also traded Sergio Rodriguez to New York for Larry Hughes, and traded a future 2nd round pick to Washington for Dominic McGuire.
Traded Andres Nocioni and Spencer Hawes for Samuel Dalembert.
It was just a couple of years ago that some of us were questioning whether Petrie was nimble enough to rebuild a team. Sure, he had proven that he could assemble a winner. But could he deconstruct and reconstruct? Well, the salaries are gone, so I suppose the deconstruction is pretty much complete. The reconstruction has begun.
I’m not a fan of every one of Petrie’s draft picks or trades, but he sure seems to get a lot more right than wrong, and he sure has proven recently that he’s not all scared of taking a chance or pulling the trigger. I don’t know what the draft holds, and I don’t know which of the current players will or will not be on the roster at this time next year. But I know one thing, and that is that I am fastening my seat belt. Geoff Petrie is at the wheel, and he is flat, freaking nuts.
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this pretty much perfectly explains
why nothing is known by us. Either way Petrie goes on draft day will be a surprise to us.
if he passes on Cousins and drafts Monroe, STR will go in shock mode
if he takes Cousins over Monroe, everybody will be confused as to why Petrie didnt surprise us
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
Not necessarily...
Either way Petrie goes on draft day will be a surprise to us.
Just because Petrie has been a surprise to us does not necessarily mean that he has to be. Predictable, he is not. None of us can predict whom he will pick come draft day. None of us at STR nor none of the media prognosticators. However, if he takes Cousins over Monroe most of us will be pleased, but not shocked or surprised. Perhaps we will be able to take some comfort in knowing that all does not have to be wild and crazy. We want Cousins, Petrie gets him. All will be good in the world.
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Being GM for a small market team forces you to be creative.
And Petrie sure has adjusted.
One thing, though…2001-2004, the “conservative” years, also happen to be the years where Petrie’s early moves finally paid off in the form of a team winning ~70% of its games. You don’t mess with a Pacific Division champion.
Agreed
And I’m not saying that he should have made various deals during that period. But as a result, he picked up that conservative, monolithic label.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I remember awhile ago..
Chris Webber was trying to get a office position with the sacramento kings that he felt would attract more players because he is a popular guy. I’m unsure if that is a good or bad idea. I feel the sacramento kings arent going to get players unless they overpay them. sacramento is nobodies first choice. we could get better players i we were to do something that would bring attention our way. not sure what.
Lebron James to sign with the Sacramento Kings!! Now he is a REAL king!
Did you forget Hedo?
sacramento is nobodies first choice
Just kidding. It is funny that he actually specifically asked for Sacramento though. I think he knows we are generally pretty forgiving, and he needs that right now.
...
by prowseinthehouse on Jun 19, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I always wondered why the Maloofs didn't take Webb up on that
But now that we have Jim Gray and Bill Walton aboard, I’m REALLY wondering why we don’t have more Webber in the house.
One of the best parts of Chris Webber’s Sac persona has always been his popularity with fans and other players. Between the Kayte thing and the Webber thing, it makes me wonder what the criteria are for working for the Kings. Is there anti-player sentiment?
What kind of King’s fan can’t get behind a TV line-up of CWebb and Kayte on the pre- and post- game reports? Am I crazy for thinking that this show would be just as popular as the game?
by basketball galactica on Jun 19, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought Salmons was on the Sixers...
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
He was a free agent -
He had a deal in place with Toronto but was not excited about going there. Petrie offered him 25 cents more and he jumped at it.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 18, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhh, thanks.
I was researching it, but it’s kind of hard to find info on who tendered unaccepted offers to what players during certain off-seasons.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
What actually happened was that Salmons was offered the full 5 years of Mid Level plus a trade kicker.
That’s what got him here I believe.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Toronto offered 5 years, 23 mil
Sac offered 5 years, 25.5 mil, and yes he did have a 15% trade kicker.
Well that made a difference.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Plus God told him to go to Sacramento.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
A Monty Python reference
Not enough of those. That guy was hilarious I tell you.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Stop groveling. I hate it when you grovel.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 21, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes Maam
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Now bring me a shrubbery
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 22, 2010 5:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Also
Could add the Sharif Abdul-Rahim signing to the mix. That was a pretty big signing at the time, especially considering the controversy over his knee.
gotta be good to be lucky, and lucky to be good
A few developments jump out at me over the last 7 years worth noting and (oddly) most involve the Rockets ??
1. Also took big chance on Jimmy Johnson but then couldn’t keep him after last good playoff run (JJ signed w Hou);
2. After Bonzi’s monster playoffs vs. Spurs, if he’d taken GP’s offer, Kmart would never have been given the PT to blossom after an awful R year .. Artest was at 3 and Bonzi would’ve manned the 2. (Bonzi signed w Hou instead)
3. Held on to Bibby for 1 year too long, but finally dumped his contract w/o getting a decent player back.
4. Artest trade to … Houston, brough salary relief w Bjax’s 1 year deal and 2 good young players
5. Kmart’s injury this year proved that Kings weren’t going to be better w/ him in the lineup so why not dump the salary … on Houston, in return for first decent low-post scorer since … Vlade?
Does this mean we might trade down to 14 on draft day? Louis Scola anyone? joking
Who's Jimmy Johnson?
The nascar guy or the football guy?
Then the X-Files being, looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan with Isabella Rossellini lips and breath that reeked of vanilla Chig Champa,
did a slow-mo Matrix descent out of the butt end of the banana vessel and hovered above my bug-eyes, my gaping jaw, and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip and all I could think was: "I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice that I pissed my f***in' pants."
by kangsfan on Jun 19, 2010 5:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Extenze
he has taken over for Smilin’ Bob
by betweentheeyes on Jun 19, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting insights Section
We all see the Glory Years Kings as the prototypical Petrie team and the types of players he likes. This time around as he’s rebuilding he’s going in a different direction. He’s adding toughness and seeing the need for defense. He drafted 3 guys last year that are tough as nails and don’t know what the word hustle means. To them hustle is normal. He traded for Dalembert knowing we need toughness in the middle. To me, this is further proof that if Cousins is there that’s who Petrie is taking. Cousins may have an attitude, and it may show on the court. But he’s tough and wants to win. And quite frankly, having Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins for the next 15 years makes me think that this Petrie dude knows what the hell he’s doing
#vfettkefordraft
This shows us simply that Petrie knows HOW to build dynasty level teams.
He built the first team around his stars(Webber and Peja).
Now he’s building around his new star(Evans). Getting Landry, having THompson and Casspi. Things are settling into place. Hopefully we land that #2 guy this draft and we can build a younger version of the glory years. I think Cousins is that guy.
Going forward our building blocks look like:
C: Cousins
PF: Thompson/Landry
SF: Greene/Casspi
SG: Evans/Garcia
PG: Beno
That’s solid. Maybe in free agency we land that final piece that begins our upward climb back where we belong….THE PACIFIC DIVISION champs and rightful heirs to represent the Western Conference in the NBA finals.
SCREW YOU $tern. Petrie’s bringing us back in SPITE of your biased officials, poor lottery positions and unfavorable marketing campaign that always seem to forget about Sacramento. SCREW YOU $tern.
Evans and Cousins is beastly
Overall that lineup is solid. I see a need for another guard to come off the bench or that can play well enough with Reke that Beno can come off the bench. I also like the idea of Landry as a bench guy too
#vfettkefordraft
agree.
A CONSISTENT outside shooter. That would not be Greene or Garcia. Someone in the YOUNG Ray Allen mold, I would think
If only we could find the Young Ray Allen tree, and give it a shake.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jun 19, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Someone like Xavier Henry, for example?
He looks like this year’s James Harden.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I'd kind of prefer that Omri or Donte turn into consistent outside shooters
I honestly want another Beno type of guard. Udrih is perfect next to Tyreke, but he’d also be a great guard off the bench as well. He can get inside as well as shoot the jumper and he’s also a decent distributor.
#vfettkefordraft
if beno could just play better defense I would be sold
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Jun 19, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Donté and Omri are already pretty decent shooting SFs
Donté shot 37.7% from 3. Good for 5th best SF last season
Omri shot 36.9% from 3. Good for 11th best SF last season
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 19, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
In terms of PER
Omri is the 7th worst starting SF in the league.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Eh for a rookie I would think that isn't too shabby
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, and for a 25-win team it's not too shabby
It’s a position we can improve ourselves at.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I agree that we need to get better at the SF
The question is whether that will happen internally or externally. Have Casspi (21) and Greene (22) peaked? Time will tell.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I doubt whether they have peaked
The question is whether we should give them more time or try to get better now, whether in the draft (Johnson), trade (Prince) or free agency (Gay).
At some point you drop the qualifiers (not bad for a rookie) and try to put the best players on the floor. Giving up on Hawes might me a tell on which direction Petrie & Co. are now leaning.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Hey I'm fine with getting Gay at a reasonable price or if Cousins gets picked and the Kings decide to go with Johnson
But I would probably prefer Cousins and Favors and would be okay if the team feels Monroe is a talent. I also have zero interest in overpaying for someone like Gay.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
.
Hey I’m fine with getting Gay at a reasonable price
That can’t not be intentional
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
by JediLeroy on Jun 20, 2010 3:25 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
LOL
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 20, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
All this time...and I didn't know it was something you could buy.
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
- John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Crap not sure I can rec this and keep my dignity.
Ah, screw dignity!
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 20, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
No doubt
And I wouldn’t pass on Johnson at #5. I’m not enamored of Gay and the price tag that he’ll probably carry, and I don’t really want Prince, but I would take him as a bi-product of a trade that would improve the KIngs in the long term. I guess that my take is that improvement is needed at the 3, but I don’t think that we need to overpay for it.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree with most of this
Although I’m probably higher on Prince. I think he’s a definite upgrade at the 3.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
prince
Didn’t have much better numbers than Casspi and Omri hit rookie wall halfway thru. I wouldn’t be surprised in least if Omri has better year than Prince next year. Donte too.
LaMarcus Aldridge is the most over rated and over paid player in NBA. Tyreke Evans will be better than Brandon Roy this year.
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 19, 2010 4:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Prince is an upgrade,
and on both ends of the floor.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Better than Artest, though
Weird.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 19, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, like everything, it's not a perfect stat
Artest’s role on the Lakers is like guys like Battier and Bruce Bowen whose contributions tend to be undervalued by PER.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
So,
it’s a telling stat for rookie Casspi (who started only 31 games, by the way), but not for Artest?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Your words
Not mine.
Casspi played the most minutes per game, which is why I ranked him as the starter. Donte and he have about the same PER.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
And to be frank
Artest played 46 of 48 minutes in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. If Casspi and Donte were on the Lakers, they’d be battlling Adam Morrison and Luke Walton for scraps of time instead of combining to average about 45 minutes per game for the Kings. They’d be the guys whose rooms Artest would be charging the porno flicks to.
Don’t get me wrong; both players provided some nice highlights during the season, but they also disappeared for weeks at a time. Playing young guys extended minutes is why we are at the bottom of the totem pole in the NBA. Hopefully they will both continue to improve this season, but there’s nothing wrong with strengthening the position if we can in the meantime.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jun 19, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I was just wondering
why you used PER as a measuring stick for Casspi, yet it is a flawed statistic when it comes to Artest. I’m not sure that I buy the explanation, but if it suits you, cool.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
As I explained above
Artest’s role has changed to focus more on defense and less on shooting. That sometimes gets lost in PER as has been discussed with guys like Battier and Bowen.
When Artest had a more prominent offensive role, such as during his tenure with the Kings, he was consistently one of the top 10 SFs in terms of PER.
Casspi is pretty much an offensive player. I think PER probably does a fair job of capturing his contribution. I remember it being fairly high early in the year when he was especially productive, and obviously the numbers wilted as he hit the rookie wall.
There are certainly other approaches such as your fairly subjective look at Dalembert and how he compared to other centers. Maybe a similar look at Casspi-Donte and how they stack up with other starting 3s is in order.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jun 19, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I would imagine
that most of the tenured small forwards would fare very well against Casspi or Greene. I would venture to say that small forwards that have started 31 or fewer games in their career would not fare nearly as well against Casspi.
That said, the solid argument could be made that Casspi is a better small forward for the Kings at this time than Artest (for example), given his history. However, Artest would be the much better option for the L*kers.
Oh, and I am allowed to be subjective when writng my opinions – just as you are allowed to be subjective in your use of statistical analysis…a right that you are wont to exercise from time to time.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Your opinions are generally backed by carefully chosen stats
and you are also “allowed to be subjective in your use of statistical analysis…a right that you are wont to exercise from time to time.”
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Ah -
The standard “I’m rubber and you’re glue” response – well done.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yep
I probably should have just said, “Whatever, pot.”
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Ooh -
And a nifty “I know you are but what am I” follow up.
This is fun – let me try one, in honor of Father’s Day:
Player A: My dad could lick your dad.
Player B: Oh yeah? Your dad would probably like it!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
My dad's dead
So your dad is free to lick him all he wants.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
It's his stock in trade
New name, same schtick.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
Artest stats were lower because he was on great team.
Prince doesn’t have that issue. In my opinion with Prince aging Omri or/and Donte could have just as good a year. And if not we sure know a lot more what to expect out of our younger players, which good considering hardly anyone expects us to make playoffs. Trading for Nocioni and calling it a upgrade is one thing. But I really don’t see a reason to be interested in Prince rt now.
LaMarcus Aldridge is the most over rated and over paid player in NBA. Tyreke Evans will be better than Brandon Roy this year.
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 20, 2010 2:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Prince is 30
If you look at the vets on the Lakers and Celtics, age = experience and comes in handy in big games. Prince should be able to play another five years at a minimum.
The only reason to be interested in Prince is to make the team better. I’m assuming that is still the goal, right?
I’m not writing off Casspi and Donte. Both have some athleticism and good shooting skills. As with all young players, decisionmaking and consistency are the big areas they need to improve in.
When you have no choice, you forcefeed youngsters minutes and live with the results. But the Kings have some options to get better.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I just dont kniow why you invest
In a player who in best case scenerio will be very minor upgrade and take time from two young players you are invested in.
LaMarcus Aldridge is the most over rated and over paid player in NBA. Tyreke Evans will be better than Brandon Roy this year.
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 20, 2010 6:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Probably because
he’s a bigger upgrade than you think.
He’s super consistent; you know he will deliver 13-5 and 3, because he’s been doing it, year in and year out. On a team that can play great one night and stink it up the next, he can be a pillar of stability. He also is committed to defense.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
But...
You’re still talking about a one-year rental. He’s not part of the future.
You applauded trading Hawes and Noc because they were not going to be part of the team going forward. Why does that standard not apply here?
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 20, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Because if we get him
He could be part of the future. Again, he’s only 30. In any case, it would give the team increasing flexibility and more options.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Not seeing how it gives us more flexibility.
It ties up a boatload of money, he’s a guy who will play 30 mpg, which relegates both Greene and Casspi to extended time on the bench when we need to be seeing what we really have there, and if he is someone we end up keeping, he’s at least going to require MLE money.
He’s someone we sign if we expect to make the playoffs this season.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 21, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he's someone we consider signing
if we expect to make the playoffs in the future.
He could be the piece that gets us over the hump and into next year’s playoffs as well, depending on how much we do to improve the team elsewhere this offseason.
And all that money that’s being tied up goes away after next year. Besides, maybe one of our small forwards grows up and takes the job and we let Prince leave. Or he becomes a nice trade chip at the deadline for a contending team that needs some help.
If you add Prince, you have a starter at each position in the top 15 in terms of PER. That should position you for a run at the outer rim of the playoffs. If they are able to upgrade at the 2 guard, then the team is also better positioned for the future.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jun 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree.
I don’t think Prince is enough of an upgrade to make the Kings a playoff team for 2010-11.
I think it slows the potential growth of Greene and Casspi this season to have Prince ahead of them in the rotation.
I agree he’s a good player. But I’d rather miss the playoffs this year and groom one of our very young SFs to be the starter of the future. If neither of them steps up this season, then we make a move. But not for someone as old as Prince. I’d like to see us be contenders for several years instead of having a very short window based on an aging vet.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 22, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent piece. Rec'd
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I woke up today convinced it'll be Monroe. No idea why that happened, or why I feel comfortable with it.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
I'm thinking its going to be Monroe as well.
Even if Cousins or Favors are on the board. My main reason for thinking this is because the two things that would excite me most that could reasonably happen is for Cousins/Favors to drop and the Kings to pick one of them. Since that’s what I want, we’re getting Monroe, who I won’t really be excited for.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Especially, our dear friend up north.
Having said that, if pookey’s dreams come true and we get Favors, it might be fun to see a pleasantly-disposed pookey.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
This would definitely be a good thing
mostly because Favors will probably be fucking awesome
#vfettkefordraft
If Pookey chills, so does Hades
I’ll believe it when I see it (I am sure I will get there).
by betweentheeyes on Jun 19, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm good with a Monroe or Cousins selection if it happens.
I prefer Favors, but I’ll be shocked if the Kings get the opportunity to take him. 3 teams that could use an athletic defensive player are picking ahead of them. The odds are small (and I don’t believe the recent workouts will do much to sway teams) that Favors drops to the Kings at 5.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
really? you're cool with Monroe?
say it ain’t so, pookey. He’s OK and everything I guess, but dang, man… this is the #5 pick we’re holding! We need to walk out of this with someone who has the potential to be a great player, which I don’t think Monroe is likely to become.
Also, can anyone enlighten me as to why Monroe seems to have become the consensus expected pick by so many of those who doubt Petrie will draft Cousins? Did I miss a rumor or a tidbit of info posted somewhere?
I know the Kings worked Monroe out again, but they also did the same with Whitehead and Udoh. Why is it any less likely that one of those two guys’ names will be called?
I assume it’s because Monroe is supposed to be a typical “Petrie-type” player, which as I think we’ve seen proven around here lately, is a myth. To anyone who believes this I have two words to consider “Samuel Dalembert”
Anyhoo, at the risk of repeating myself I’m gonna repeat myself and say that it’s damn unlikely that Cousins will slip past 5. If the Kings don’t draft him (and I don’t think they will), it’ll be because he was already off the board or because he was available at 5 and they traded the pick and (probably) end up with one of the three other bigs in this conversation with a later pick. (and yes, I prefer Udoh or Whitehead to Monroe).
It makes almost no sense to draft Greg Monroe with the 5th pick unless they’re absolutely in love with the guy, which is why it won’t happen.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
have to tease you
I think you mean:
Hassan Whiteside
by betweentheeyes on Jun 21, 2010 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
ha
that’s like the second or third time I’ve done that… 8>p
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Actually, I think I had Hassan mixed up with Alfred North Whitehead
The 20th Century English philosopher and co-author, with Bertrand Russell, of the Principia Mathematica. Easy mistake to make, right?
http://www.illc.uva.nl/~seop/archives/fall2002/entries/whitehead/
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
On the other hand
If Favors falls to the Kings and then pass him up for Monroe, I would pay to see the Pookeysplosion
You all need to cool it with the draft day meltdown build up.
You over hype it and it is sure to disappoint.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 19, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I fully expect GP to pull something completely out of left field this year. Something sure to surprise everyone
I expect him to pick whichever one of the ’top 5" slides to us.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 19, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I will remember this period fondly when we are contenders again
The anticipation, the conjecture – it’s an awesome time of year for a fan of a non-contending team. That said, I’d like to get on with the fond rememberances sooner than later.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Does that include W Johnson over Monroe?
I sure as hell hope so..
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
Yeah. Monroe is not one of the 'top 5'
If he wants Monroe, I’d expect some form of the Detroit trade. Where we move down.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 19, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
To paraphrase the immortal Forrest Gump
Draft choice is as draft choice does..
If GP decides that the best prospect is Greg Monroe at #5 and the Kings pick at him at #5 than in my mind, he is the BPA. You can’t pick a player, decide what his rank is and magically trade for him at that spot.
Who is left to trade? Cisco, I guess. That means that the team you are trading with must accept him and their pick for #5. Might happen, but probably not.
Jes sayin’.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 19, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
i don’t care for monroe , he is Compared to Brad Miller , a Softy. Defense! Samuel , Cousins ,Varnado. We get Somehow Jerome Randle , we got something snappy.
He was also compared to Chris Webber.
Not like it means anything…
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 19, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually,
he’s been compared to post-injury Chris Webber. Big difference, that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I can see Monroe having an impact in this league
Granted it will probably be about a LaMarcus Aldridge sized impact but I guess that counts for something.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
If Cousins was gone
I was ok with Monroe. But you just ruined him for me with your LaMarcus Aldridge comparison
LaMarcus Aldridge is the most over rated and over paid player in NBA. Tyreke Evans will be better than Brandon Roy this year.
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 19, 2010 11:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but I am a little biased against him
Only because the two times I saw him play he wasn’t very impressive. Not the best reason to not like a guy but still.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
This.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Please don't feed the bear.
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Jun 20, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Why the Sixer trade this week?
I woke up wondering why the Sixer trade went down a week before the draft and two weeks before the Kings had massive cap room. For example, Sixers could have dumped Dally on us after July 1 for nothing, or for Noc or for just Hawes because we would have had the cap room to absorb Dally’s contract. Was there a reason for Sixers urgency? Or does GP have a reason to make the trade before July 1 because he has something else in the works in which he’ll need the July 1 cap room? Since a swap of picks was not part of the deal, what was the urgency of a deal that apparently had been discussed for months?
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jun 19, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions
Why are you questioning a trade that was good for us?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Maybe he would have been happier if we had been stuck with Noc.
Pretty expensive bench warmer.
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
- John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Not questioning the trade
questioning the timing and whether its a sign that Sixers might have something else in the works (perhaps moving their pick which would affect draft order) or whether we have something else in the works.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jun 19, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
excellent point
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Maybe
Some combination of the 2 pick to Minny for the 4,
Then Min takes Turner, and Philly takes leftovers of Cousins, Favors.
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
I like this kind of conjecture!
I started wondering the same thing, trying to dream up scenarios, but my poor small brain soon became overheated.
Luckily Geoff Petrie has a large cranium chock full of hoops knowledge, so I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s something to this idea.
Another shoe yet to drop…
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
I don't think the date mattered either way
Both teams have been talking about it for awhile. They both knew they wanted to do it so why not do it. I am guessing you are wondering why they would do this now given it could have draft day implications. If that is the case, trust me, nobody is changing their draft day strategy over the likes of Spencer Hawes and Dalembert.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
maybe
The Kings didn’t want to use their cap space to absorb Dalembert, then still need to find a trade partner to ship off Nocioni. Why would Philly trade their starting center and not at least get another big man in return? Even if they’re going big in the draft, they’re in the same position as the Kings – they need A LOT of front court help.
by Kevin Conroy on Jun 19, 2010 11:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Comparisions
If you believe that Dalembert brings more than Hawes does to the team, then you should be for this trade. The fact that Noci was added shouldn’t really matter because the guy said he wasn’t playing for us next year. So if it sweetened the pot for Phili, who really cares?
Secondly, you have to remember that it takes two to make a trade. Do you jump on what looks like a good deal now or wait and hope no other GM presents the 76ers with a better offer to them? Since they have been working on this for months, ALL options have been explored between the two teams so it was either do it or walk away.
I like this deal simply because it gives us a player that can provide the Kings with the defense/rebounding/shotblocking that team desperately needs and we loose a player (Hawes) that has shown that he cannot provide it.
Your 2nd paragraph is key, and an excellent point
Apparently, the 76ers were also having conversations with Detroit. I don’t know that Dalembert was involved, but if the 76ers had crafted any deal with Detroit it could have changed the dynamics of this deal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Likely would have been Tayshaun for Dalembert
or some variation of that
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 19, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
which Philadelphia wouldn't have liked because
They would be “forced” to have to draft a Center with the #2 pick. It is apparently that GP “giving up” on Hawes was the key in getting this trade done. Probably in previous talks, the Kings were not offering Hawes into the mix.
and it looks like I was right....
Just read a news article that had Dallas talking to Philadelphia about Dalembert.
I’d mention that Sam seems pleased to be coming here, more over. Perhaps some of it is just rhetoric, but he seems, at this point, to be a fellow who will help solidify the team, not spend his time disgruntled and boisterous.
by Charles L. Pierro on Jun 19, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Moreover, I’ll mention that he has a track record of being a community man. Webber found a home here when he didn’t expect it. Sam may feel the same. Sac’s a great place once you get right down to it.
by Charles L. Pierro on Jun 19, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Damn you for taking that excellent screen name
What I wouldn’t give to be able to hit rewind and take “Charles L. Pierro” for myself!
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Hah.
It’s my real name, actually.
by Charles L. Pierro on Jun 19, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Really.
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
- John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
During the year
Watching games I was salivating at the thought of getting good pick and shot at Cousins. Nobody produced like him. He has legit size and is both skilled and good down low. Then I kinda got a little scared off by media. Cousins may be most talented player in the draft. Maybe most ready to produce. He has tools that can’t be taught. We need a home run pick and a big. If Cousins is on board I think GP takes him. This isn’t the 12th or 16th pick. GP doesn’t have to be cute or pull a Euro. At 5 a talent will be there. I hope its Cousins
LaMarcus Aldridge is the most over rated and over paid player in NBA. Tyreke Evans will be better than Brandon Roy this year.
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 19, 2010 11:32 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
With Noc and Hawes gone
Do we still have the ability to pull off the Prince trade that was discussed previously?
Bringing Prince or a similar small forward in, trading down and drafting Xavier Henry to play shooting guard in the future is what I have in mind if there’s a way to pull it off. Obviously Garcia would have to be in the deal.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Garcia is definitely up for grabs, no idea if Detroit is interested.
Someone might be, but we’d be taking back a lot of salary for at least one year, one must conclude.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Don't play poker with this man. Some of my scattered thoughts on Geoff Petrie.
Whenever I think I understand exactly what Geoff Petrie is going to do, I feel like the Sicilian in Princess Bride and I am arguing with the man with the Iocane powder.
We look back (in engaging style, nice write up Section214) and see success, we stare at the present with a grimace and a glimmer of what was and what could be. How did this happen? Simply, Sacramento hit some back luck. If you compare the Kings to other small market teams, even the most successful have gone up and down over the last 16 seasons since GP’s arrival in Sacramento. The most successful would be San Antonio. They have been blessed with a durable centerpiece, Tim Duncan. If you can imagine that Chris Webber could have remained healthy wouldn’t the path of the Kings look much different today? On the reverse: If Tim Duncan had blown out his knee to the extent of CWebb, would type of team would the Spurs be fielding? These are abstract, unanswerable questions but written to support a point. The fall of CWebb began the collapse of the winning seasons to the low point seen last year. His egg dominated the basket, and you know the cliché – unfortunately, Humpty-Dumpty happened.
Petrie has built a winner in Sacramento before. It takes brains, guts and luck. Right now the luck part is up and down (the 4th pick last season, the 5th pick this season). Finding a coach that can be counted on is a good start. Finding the pieces that this coach can use is the current stage of the rebuild, which is now just one season old (You can’t build a pick up truck with sports car parts). The team needs to be re-tooled. This new team will not resemble the Adelman teams in the past. It is not to the desire of ownership, it is not the style of the coach. For a General Manager, the approach is different, the task the same.
Being a Sacramento Kings fan means that you have to believe in (that does not mean never question) Geoff Petrie. He is the only two time Executive of the Year in the League today. He has a proven track record. He operates under a veil of secrecy because that is his style. It works. The trust is there, and the mystery is fun. Viva la Petrie!
by betweentheeyes on Jun 19, 2010 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
Sometimes
A “this” is all thats needed.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Only one issue with this post.
You can’t build a pick up truck with sports car parts
El Camino… Ranchero…
Other than that. You hit it squarely on the head. Rec’d! Green baby green!
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
If your idea of a El Camino is a sports car...
than you must be a redneck.
Sorry, I had a Jeff Foxworthy moment.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 19, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Nicely written, bte.
I want to thank my psychiatrist. - Ron Artest, June 17, 2010, after winning NBA Championship.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
- John Wooden
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
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