2010 Positional Rankings, or How I'm Actually Kind of Excited About This Year's Draft (Plus STR Draft Board)
(From the FanPosts. An annual favorite ... -- TZ)
Ah yes. It's time for the 2nd Annual Positional Rankings Post, wherein I predict the fortunes of the draft picks, and which provides great fodder for future arguments as you can always pull the name Jeff Teague out of the hat and make me crazy.
Watch, I can prove it: "Jeff Teague"
DAMN you. GIVE IT SOME TIME!!!!!
See how that works? But before you write my inner-Nostradamus off completely, here are last year's predictions so you can judge for yourself how I did. And in case you're wondering: After TEARING IT UP IN TURKEY, Josh Heytvelt is now playing for Brandon Jennings' old Italian team. Next stop: world domination.
But enough about last year! 2010 Positional Rankings after the jump.
Note that these rankings are based on who I think will have the best career, not necessarily in the order I think makes sense for the Kings. If I don't mention a player it's because I haven't seen them play and didn't find a good YouTube replacement video. Everyone else I've seen in at least several games unless otherwise mentioned.
My basic draft philosophy:
1. Avoid guys who are underathletic and/or undersized but who pundits say "can just flat out play."
2. Raw upside guys: a) must be athletic; b) SGs and SFs need to be able to shoot and have a handle; c) bigs must have good hands; d) point guards have to be very quick and either really good at scoring or really good at passing.
3. Watch out for the unmotivated (and watch me ignore that hello DeMarcus Cousins my old friend!!)
Point Guard:
1. John Wall – It’s become trendy in some parts to treat John Wall as something other than the best draft prospect in the draft by leaps and bounds, and some contrarians are busy whispering that Evan Turner or DeMarcus Cousins is actually a better prospect. This is insane. It’s not super exciting when the guy you thought would be #1 by a mile at the beginning of the season is #1 by a mile at the end of the season, but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s still #1 by a mile. Wall has freakish Reke/Wade-esque finishing ability, he's dynamite in transition, he's an elite athlete, and he has some great vision. If he develops more consistent outside shooting and gains experience he could be one of the top players in the entire league.
2. Avery Bradley – Yes, indeed! It’s time for this year’s Jeff Teague, i.e. the player that I think is underrated but who will probably sit on a bench for a good team and we won’t know for a few years whether I should be merely chided or laughed straight off the website. Bradley is incredibly quick and athletic, he’s a tenacious defender, he has an unbelievably advanced midrange game for a freshman, and he’s a very creative passer. He needs to improve his shooting consistency, but make no mistake: Bradley can play PG and he is seriously talented. Think of him as a farther-along-at-the-same-age Russell Westbrook.
3. Eric Bledsoe – Bledsoe is a tough prospect to read. He is wildly talented and athletic and is capable of acrobatic shots as well as some impressive (though streaky) outside shooting. On the other hand, he often plays out of control and seems very immature: early in the season he had to be taken out of a game 30 seconds in because he managed to get into a shouting match and no one could calm him down. The question with Bledsoe is whether he has the maturity and work ethic to capitalize on his gifts and obvious intensity. I don’t know the guy, so who knows.
4. Armon Johnson – The dropoff from Bledsoe to Armon Johnson is steep. Johnson has good size, he’s pretty quick and can get into the lane, but his jumper is really weak. Since his point guard skills are also somewhat lacking you’re basically looking at a 6’3" shooting guard who can’t shoot.
5. Ben Uzoh – This guy is a phenomenal athlete and streaky scorer who can play some D, but is really more of a SG. He may be destined for a Ronnie Price career trajectory, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he landed somewhere.
Others:
Sherron Collins and Jerome Randle: Sub-6’0" point guards have a really tough time in the NBA when they’re not blindingly fast. Collins and Randle are quick, but I’m not sure that they’re quick enough.
Shooting Guard:
1. Evan Turner – He may well be the best SG in this draft, but I’m not really a fan. Much like our own Tyreke Evans, Turner is a crafty ballhandler and scorer who can change directions, get his own shot, passes decently, and is a subpar outside shooter. But here’s the problem: Turner is not as athletic as Evans (or Brandon Roy for that matter). He’s not nearly as quick, he’s not explosive, and he doesn’t have the same uncanny finishing ability. He also is an almost unparalleled turnover machine: his 4.4 turnovers a game represent half a turnover more than Wall, who is often knocked for being turnover-prone. Turner has to dominate the ball to be effective, but is he really good enough, efficient enough, and athletic enough to justify that in the NBA? And if he’s playing off the ball how is he going to contribute? He definitely has enough shot-creation and finishing ability inside 15 feet to be a solid player, but I don’t see a star.
2. James Anderson – Anderson is a versatile scorer with deep range both catching and shooting and off the dribble. Unfortunately, while he's a fairly good leaper, he is not very quick and is not the greatest ballhandler, so against good defenses he struggles to create his own shot. Still, he’s a very solid all-around player and his ultimate potential probably comes down to how well he adapts to the NBA three-point line.
3. Xavier Henry – An underwhelming athlete whose only offensive skill is catching and shooting. So: Jason Kapono. Or Kyle Korver. Or Martell Webster. You get the idea.
4. Jordan Crawford – Crawford had a pretty stellar end of season run, but I’m still not totally convinced of his NBA potential. He’s only 6’4", and while he’s fearless at the end of games, he’s also fearless about launching ill-advised shots and forcing drives. He’s pretty athletic and we all know he dunked on LeBron James in a summer camp, but I don’t know if he’s quite athletic enough or quite talented enough to make up for his lack of size. Basically: I worry that he's more Rashad McCants than Eric Gordon (or Marcus Thornton for that matter).
5. Terico White – White is another guy who can get up off the floor and is capable of some spectacular dunks, but he’s not that great creating his own shot. He is also slightly undersized for a SG at 6’5", but he’s a pretty good shooter and can handle the ball.
Others:
Elliot Williams – Very similar to Gerald Henderson in terms of size, athleticism, and game. And no, that isn’t exactly an endorsement.
Quincy Pondexter – He’s definitely athletic and had a strong season, but since he’s not a good shooter and not a great ballhandler I don’t really see what he’s going to do in the NBA.
Willie Warren – Just…. no.
Lance Stephenson – Somewhat crafty scorer, but really not that quick.
Greivis Vasquez – The poor man’s Francisco Garcia.
Small Forward:
1. Wesley Johnson – There is always a place in the NBA for athletic guys who can shoot. Johnson already projects as a JR Smith type of player who runs the floor and shoots 3s. But like Smith, Johnson doesn’t really have a versatile offensive game. He’s not effective taking the ball to the hoop or getting to the line, and he’s not good pulling up off the dribble. With his athleticism and shooting ability he seems like he could step in and be a solid contributor relatively quickly, but he won’t be a star unless he can learn to put the ball on the floor and vary his offensive game.
2. Paul George – George looks the part of an NBA small forward. He’s got the athleticism, size (6’9"), he’s a pretty good ballhandler, and he can shoot from outside. The problem is that he plays and acts like he’s already convinced of his own greatness. He takes horrible shots, shoots for a very poor percentage, coasts on defense, is careless with the ball, and is the type of guy who will make an awkward fast break layup and then yell at the opposing bench like he’s LeBron James. Dude. Come on. You played in Fresno. George has a whole lot of potential, but he needs a whole lot of polish.
3. Stanley Robinson – There is also always a place in the NBA for 6’8" freakish athletes with crazy hustle who can play lockdown defense and knock down open jumpers. Robinson could be an ideal glue guy/bench energizer on a team where he’s not counted on to score points, especially alongside a passing PG who can get him alley-oops. But his success is going to depend a lot on landing in the right situation.
4. Damion James – Good but not great at pretty much everything: good but not great athleticism, good but not great size, good but not great shooting, good but not great handle. He had four good but not great years at Texas during which he never really seemed to get all that much better. Despite all that, he may just be good but not great enough to be a solid bench player in the NBA.
5. Al-Farouq Aminu – So why do I rank Stanley Robinson and Damion James ahead of Aminu? It’s all about the jump shot: Aminu doesn’t really have one. You have to be unbelievably good at other facets of the game to stay on the floor in the NBA when you’re a small forward who can’t shoot. While he’s a pretty good rebounder, offensively Aminu is both clumsy and has terrible fundamentals. Look at how Darius Miles’ and Hakeem Warrick’s athletic gifts never really translated because they couldn’t put the ball on the floor and they couldn’t shoot. If Aminu learns some offense he could be a force. But he’s so uncoordinated I just don’t see it happening. A bust in the making.
Others:
Devin Ebanks – The quintessential smooth 6’9" small forward who can dribble, pass, run the floor, looks like a great prospect…. Only he can’t shoot. And that just never works. Billy Owens. Julian Wright. Earl Clark…. Devin Ebanks.
Gordon Hayward – When a player’s best case scenario is Mike Dunleavy Jr. that should really tell you all you need to know.
Luke Babbitt – A good shooter and able to score in a variety of ways. The problem is that he's so slow he makes Adam Morrison look like Carl Lewis.
Power Forward:
1. Greg Monroe – Here is the paradox that is Greg Monroe: 1) When it’s all said and done I think he’s going to be the best power forward in this draft. 2) The idea of drafting him makes me crazy. Monroe is extremely skilled, he's 6’11", he can shoot, dribble, run the floor, he is quick for his size, and he will be one of the elite passers in the NBA the second he steps on the floor. He is one of the most multi-talented offensive bigs to come into the league in a long long time. The problem is that despite his better rebounding this season he is earthbound, soft, he was a key player on two Georgetown teams that wildly underachieved, and he is a rather terrible defender, of which the Kings already have too many. All that said: Petrie will draft him. He just will. They've probably already sewn the jersey.
2. Craig Brackins – You know how Bonzi Wells realized he screwed up by not accepting the Kings’ offer and he signed with the Rockets but was never the same again? That was kind of the season Brackins had. After making the headslapping decision to return to Iowa St., Brackins struggled through a disappointing year during which he mainly was content to launch threes and contested long twos. He showed some signs life at the end, but this bad season obscures what a uniquely talented player Brackins really is: how many athletic 6’10" power forwards are comfortable putting the ball on the floor like a guard, pulling up from midrange, posting up, and shooting well from outside? This is still the guy who dropped 42 points on Cole Aldrich. If he rediscovers his heart he could be a serious sleeper.
3. Derrick Favors -- Other than Favors' admittedly very impressive reverse alley-oop against Clemson, this is what happens way too much when you go looking for Georgia Tech highlights: Oh wow! Oh wait, that was Lawal. Oh wow! Oh wait, that was Lawal. Oh wow! Oh wait, that was Lawal. One of the biggest questions I ask myself when thinking about pro potential is: What can this guy do in the NBA? Well, I don’t think Favors is skilled enough to consistently score on the block, and while I’ve seen him hit the (very) occasional 15 footer and he has a soft touch around the rim, he really doesn’t have much of an offensive game. Barring rapid improvement on offense you’re looking at him mainly as a rebounding/shotblocking/hustle guy. Only: he doesn’t really hustle, he’s a disappointing shotblocker given his athleticism, he's slow running the floor, he never showed aggressiveness, and he wasn’t even the best rebounder at Georgia Tech (again, that would be Lawal). Favors has lots and lots of potential: it’s not hard to squint and imagine him becoming the next Amare. But he was just so underwhelming in college that I can’t shake the feeling he’s going to end up being someone everyone would have been thrilled with if they drafted him at #15, but not so much at #2 or #3.
4. Ekpe Udoh – Udoh can do a little bit of everything offensively. He can score inside with either hand and he can shoot from outside. He’s not a great shot creator and he needs to add strength, but because he's both a good shooter from 15' and a good passer, he could be pretty deadly operating out of the high post. He needs to add strength if he's going to be a good rebounder, but he has some real shotblocking potential.
5. Patrick Patterson – Patterson diversified his game this season and added a consistent outside jumper to the mix. At 6’9" and not freakishly strong he’s somewhat undersized for PF, but because he is quick and has that outside jumper he could be a Udonis Haslem type, with an outside chance at Carl Landry territory. I’m not really a fan of undersized power forwards, but Patterson has the offensive and athletic gifts, as well as the hustle, to be one of the exceptions.
Others:
Ed Davis – Looks the part of an elite power forward and is a talented rebounder, only he has shaky hands and not much touch around the basket. He could be a pretty good rebounding/shotblocking PF, just don’t count on him for offense.
Gani Lawal – Relentless hustler, incredibly strong, improved his skills a lot this season. If you need toughness and rebounding, he’s your guy. Outshone Favors most of the season.
Donatas Motiejunas – What I know about him is mainly limited to YouTube videos, and from what I’ve seen he looks and plays a lot like Andrea Bargnani. With all of its attendant pros and cons.
Jarvis Varnado – Athletic and long-armed, which translates to some very good shotblocking. He’s not very polished on offense after four years at Miss. St., but he has the skills, as well as the cool name, to be the next Bo Outlaw.
Larry Sanders – The question about Sanders is whether he will ever be strong enough to be a good rebounder and post defender in the NBA. He needs to be, because shotblocking alone isn’t enough to keep him on the floor.
Trevor Booker – You have to love the ferocity that Booker plays with. You’d love it even more if he were taller.
Center:
1. DeMarcus Cousins – At this point the only person in America who has had their sanity questioned more often than DeMarcus Cousins is Lindsay Lohan. Cousins has real serious 20/10 potential - he's strong, he has great footwork, terrific hands, and is solid offensively both with his back to the basket (with an unstoppable jump hook) and facing up out to 15'. However, IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T HEARD, question marks abound about his conditioning, maturity, and heart problems of the motivational variety. Will he be Kenyon Martin, threatening to put his hands on someone when they prank him but otherwise able to keep it together? Or is he Eddy Curry, never sufficiently motivated to capitalize on his talents? His future (and the franchise that drafts him) hangs in the balance.
2. Hassan Whiteside – Unfortunately I was never able to watch Marshall play this season, so this rating is based solely on some grainy YouTube videos. Which naturally make him look pretty awesome. Long, extremely athletic, able to hit outside shots, incredible shotblocker. People compare him to Marcus Camby. What’s not to like? Well, there’s a reason YouTube is YouTube. They don’t show weaknesses.
3. Cole Aldrich – Notable for being quite possibly the least exciting draft prospect in the last ten years. You know he’s solid. You know he has a place in the NBA. And the idea of drafting him makes you want to fall asleep. Don’t worry. It can’t be helped. An entire fanbase is going to groan when his name is called and then promptly talk themselves into the pick the next day.
4. Daniel Orton – Um. Who knows? He’s big and athletic, but this season he basically just served as a foul machine. Your guess is as good as mine.
5. Solomon Alabi – He’s tall
Others:
Jerome Jordan – If you like your centers skinny and weak, Jordan is your guy.
Brian Zoubek – If the Collins twins could have long NBA careers why not Brian Zoubek?
My personal Kings draft board, balancing need and BPA (according to my own twisted logic):
1. Wall
2. Cousins
3. Bradley
4. Monroe
5. Favors
6. Johnson
7. Turner
8. Brackins
9. Udoh
10. Davis
11. Whiteside
12. Lawal
13. Bledsoe
14. Patterson
15. Anderson
Let the Teague jokes commence.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Comments
Great stuff nbrans
But Jeff Teague isn’t the real problem with your list from last year…this is:
Eric Maynor. Sean Singletary wants his career trajectory back.
GET A ROPE!
Pacifist ass-kisser
by otis29 on Jun 4, 2010 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I know!!
Forgive me Maynorverse for I have sinned!!!!!!!!!
by nbrans on Jun 4, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Maynorverse......
….and the legend has only yet begun.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
On an interesting sidenote
If the Kings do draft Monroe, it will be the exact same thing that happened when I was playing NBA 2k10 and downloaded the draft class someone modded. He won RoY too.
As for your list… its interesting. I’m pretty sure you and the GM of the Atlanta Hawks or Philadelphia 76ers would have a lot to talk about.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
In that you all really like athletic players
But not necessarily project athletic players.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Yeah, that's basically my philosophy
Completely raw and there’s a pretty good chance they’ll never pan out. But the nexus of high athleticism and high skills is where you find the top players.
Can you download new draft classes for 2k9, too? I wanna play with Tyreke, but don't want to dish out 40 bucks for a new game.
I have it on XBOX 360.
by UCIrvine kings fan on Jun 5, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
dang, poor kid. U spent this entire season without ever playing as Reke?
U’re missing out my man.
Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!
by Shizzo on Jun 5, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I downloaded a roster on 2K9
that was created by a third party.. and he created the whole rookie class using create-a-player.. it worked really really well, and players like Tyreke Evans and Brandon Jennings effectively mirrored how they played in real life. Try that?
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
I'm the best in 2k10 with the kings guaranDAMNtee it.
Mr GoldSk3et is the gamertag send me a FR if you want to play.
by Kingsfan_born_in_LA on Jun 5, 2010 6:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Where do you download these from?
I googled it, but it was talking about installing stuff on my computer?
I just wanna whoop my roommate’s ass (he’s a Warriors fan so he wants to use Curry) with Tyreke!
by UCIrvine kings fan on Jun 6, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Download it directly from the game
there’s a downloadable roster section in the menu.. Not sure if it works like this on PS3 cuz I gotz da Xbox.
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
If it makes you feel any better
I was really high on Teague last year as well and thought he’d be a diamond in the rough. Turns out he’s been a lotta of rough and not much diamond, but when he has a Chauncey Billups like career trajectory you and I will have the last laugh. Or not.
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Great post, nbrans.
Well worth the wait, heartily rec’d.
I’m really glad that your very informed opinion of Aminu supports my very uninformed opinion of Aminu. I’m also glad that you seem to be firmly in the “Pro-Cousins” camp.
I’m curious who you’d hope the Kings would take with #33, since there should be at least a few players available that you really like. To you, does the #33 pick rely heavily on who we take at #5? It does for me. If we get a big with #5 (Cousins, Favors, or Monroe) I’m looking for a guard at #33 who could either be a decent role player right away or, if we sign a FA Guard, someone who has enough potential to stick on the roster for a couple of years to see what shakes-out. If we get Johnson at #5 or trade back in the lottery to get another SG/SF like Henry, Bradley, or George, I’m looking for a big at #33 that will at least have some serious potential to see playing time within a couple of years as a rebounder/shotblocker.
So, if we go big with our first pick, who would you take out of the smaller players that might be available? If we go small with our first pick, who would you take at #33 of the bigs that may be available?
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
This is a tough call
Basically I feel like power forwards are like point guards last year – you could get a very good power forward late in the draft (Brackins, Lawal, Varnado), whereas the rest of the positions, especially at the guards, are pretty weak. I know a lot of people like Crawford (and Dominique Jones, though I haven’t seen him), but I’m just not sure how useful a 6’4" shooting guard is going to be on the roster as it stands.
So while I do think it makes sense to go big/small or small/big, I would advocate taking two bigs if they’re BPA at #5 and #33 – I don’t think you can have too many.
But with this scenario, if it’s Cousins/Monroe at #5 I like Crawford out of the guards that are likely left, and if it’s Johnson/Bradley at #5 I like Brackins/Lawal at #33.
by nbrans on Jun 4, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You draft franchise changing stars at the top of the draft
Not later in the draft. Just saying….
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Name 1 that hasn't been drafted in 1996 or 1984.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What is your definition of a "franchise changing star?"
Because Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis, etc. etc. all made a pretty big impact.
Kobe Bryant John Stockton types.
Not All-Stars. Not popular players. Players who made a paradigm shift of the franchise. I know all those guys were All-Stars, but that’s my point. Teams don’t miss on the super duper duper stars. Not after the top 10 picks or so.
And that’s my point. All-Stars and many quality players can be had. But franchise players who tremendously shift the direction of your franchise? Other than Arenas who simply was part of a couple of playoff teams as the main scorer, and Boozer who is part of a successful team, I don’t really see anybody else on that list being what I just described. And, with Boozer, I think that’s more D-Will than Booz. Just my opinion. Not the biggest fan of Boozer. With Arenas, I would never have built my franchise around him anyway. Again, my opinion.
The main game changing player for those Spurs teams was Tim Duncan. The Magic teams? Dwight Howard. Cavs teams? LeBron.
The best players in the NBA tend to be drafted 1st overall, if not in the top 3. Beyond that, it’s a guessing game as to where which player will do what for a team. Most of the top players in the L have been selected top 10, unless it’s 1984 or 1996. The one’s that haven’t had serious weaknesses that were diminished or simply less of an issue as time moved forward.
I don’t disagree players in the draft can’t help teams, or be very successful. But impact player? I look at those guys being Kobe/LeBron/Wade/Howard types. If that seems limited, well it is. The best teams have the best players, and those players are the rarest of the rare. It’s why so few teams win a championship. You’ll have to excuse me for wanting one.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tony Parker was MVP in the NBA Finals
That’s pretty high impact. Ben Wallace was undrafted and defensive player of the year on a championship team. I won’t bring up the name Rondo. I agree that you most likely get franchise players at the top of the draft, but never say never.
Though Geoff’s track record in the second round is far from inspiring.
You're not building your team around B-Wallace or Parker though.
I didn’t say guys weren’t successful. But building around them as a core foundation piece? Sorry, none of those guys were/are foundation pieces.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You're not winning a championship without them either
I take your point that almost all championship teams have a top draft pick as their best player and most franchise players were drafted high. But how does this apply to the Kings and the #33 pick again?
Kings need a player up front who can pair with Reke to take the Kings to that place. That player isn't there.
If that player is in this draft is another question.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Right
So I think it’s pretty well established that a star to play alongside a franchise talent can come from anywhere in the draft (or even outside of it). That’s why I’m feeling relatively optimistic about #33.
If the Kings are going to get that player it's more likely from the 5th pick (or a trade that derives from that pick)
I’m not sure about the 33rd pick. Many of those picks were in years where teams were looking at different things and certain players dropped for many reasons. I think the Kings can get a quality player (like Jerome Randle) with that 33rd pick, but not a star in the Ginobili/Parker type. I’ll be surprised if we see a major star drop past the 20 spot for awhile. Teams have improved their drafting strategies and what not.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Naw, the draft is still the draft
It’s still a crap shoot. There are less idiot GMs than there used to be, but there will always be sleepers. But yeah, the Kings are way more likely to get that with the #5 pick.
I think the point here is name a top
50 all time NBA player who was drafted after 10. I’m sure he or she is out there but no one comes to mind.
Top 100?
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
Crap!
was K*be a 13?
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
John Stockton at 16
Steve Nash at 15. Vlade Divac (maybe) at 26. There are a few in there. Not many.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I love Vlade
But he wasn’t a Top 50 all time NBA guy.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
What about top 100?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He'd be in the 90-100 range
maybe.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Lots
Nate Archibald, 2nd Round, Pick #19
George Gervin, 3rd Round (seriously), Pick #40
Clyde Drexler, #14
Dr. J, #12
Hal Greer, #13
Karl Malone, #13
Willis Reed, 2nd Round #10
John Stockton, #16
Dr J only dropped that far cuz of the issue with the ABA. LOL
And, i totally forgot about Clyde, Nate A, Iceman and Mailman.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But in Willis Reed's case
He was picked 10th. There was only 8 teams in 1964 when he was taken. For chrissake, John Havlicek was taken 8th overall in 1962.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I also forgot about Gervin.
He, like Dr J, jumped to the ABA and that hurt his draft stock. So teams weren’t willing to take him when he came out. The NBA teams knew he was going to be a star, but didn’t want to be like the Hawks who picked David Thompson 1st overall and then lose him to the Nuggets in the ABA.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And not only that
Gervin was already in the ABA at the time he was drafted. (He left after 2 years at Eastern Michigan.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Is this your guys way of saying
I should have thought about it a little longer? Although I am dumbfounded that you were able to name 62 oversights that were in the top 50!
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
It's a fluid deal really
Gervin, Thompson, Erving, Malone were the prime reasons the NBA wanted the ABA in the first place. It wasn’t an accident that 3 of the 4 teams (the other being the Pacers) had Gervin, Thompson and Erving on the roster as it was.
The ABA/NBA merger is so interesting in so many ways and greatly shaped how fans viewed the NBA back them. And to this day. Many good & bad things about that merger.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Greg Monroe
Petrie will draft him. He just will. They’ve probably already sewn the jersey.
I think it was a NBA podcast, or ESPN chat in which Geoff Petrie was said to have not been a fan of Greg Monroe. At the time it sounded like a reliable source. I think more than anything Petrie will continue the trend of picking tough-nosed players, so not sold Monroe fits this mold. Should learn more following weekend workout.
Great post, rec’d.
read em and weep
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/3/15/1374057/ex-mich-az-st-coach-bill-frieder
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Smokescreen? Mine or Petrie's?
I have no idea who Bill Frieder is other than that he’s a former coach. Is he friends with Petrie? Is he in the organization? I’m just curious if there’s reason to believe he knows what Petrie is thinking.
Just referring to the fact that..
…he has ‘informed’ information from Petrie. Whether it be legit or not is irrelevant. Where the information is from, doesn’t matter. Petrie doesn’t let information out unless it’s a planned leak regarding the draft.
Isn't Bill Frieder one of the friends of the Rise Guys?
All I remember about him was that he used to one of the assistants to Steve Fisher, who did an assistant turn for the Kings when Webber first came to the Kings, and that might be the connection.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I could be wrong.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He is a family friend of the Maloofs
there is an interview with him on the rise guys website where he explains this, and thats actually where he says this about Monroe. I would post the link, but the website is down right now. I’ll put it up when the site comes back up
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
I wish they were quicker about linking audio. Must be nice to be the only game in town.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I like Bradley a lot
But yeah, I may be irrationally exuberant about athletic scoring point guards. We’ll see.
I don't dislike Bradley.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I have a feeling
that we’ll be seeing him a lot next year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Hopefully, not in a Kings jersey, as much as I like Nate Robinson.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a King.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
There have been multiple rumors in the past of Petrie being interested in NAte the G8.
Match this with his reduced value and the fact that the Kings need a third guard and I think he might be a good fit. Bobby Jackson played a very similar role for the Kings that Robinson has for the Knicks and Celtics. Petrie likes combo guards that have no conscience and Nate is probably the closest thing in the NBA to that description.
If the Kings draft Wesley Johnson with the #5 to play the SG then Beno goes back to the bench and fills this role- so no Nate. If Cousins is the pick then I see the Kings thinking about a combo at #33 but really looking for the BPA and then going after Nate Robinson or Raymond Felton via FA. If this doesn’t work then I think the Kings will deal for a starting or back-up point. I like DJ Augustin for Hawes if the Kings take two bigs and if Felton resigns with the Bobcats. I could also see redistribution of assets in a Nocioni for TJ Ford trade.
The Kings need more than just the pick to fill this roster out. I would love to see a crazy off-season of Bosh/Lee and a drafting of Johnson or, Cousins and then use capspace to land a high quality guard in a salary dump. But, I just think that there is probably going to be more tinkering than real overhaul this off-season and Nate at 2-3yrs for 6-9 mill fits.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
Alright, I see your logic on this.
I don’t have any real problems with Nate Robinson, I don’t salivate at the prospect of having him. I am with you that there would be no Nate if Johnson is drafted. I would also love to see Bosh and a drafting of Cousins. As far as the guard is concerned, I could see them “tinkering” than do the whole deal. So, now that you explain your thinking, I can see that as a possibility. I still hope that doesn’t happen, although Nate is a good player.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Agree with that JJ
I think Nate is an option. I’ve thrown the idea of a 2 year 5 mil deal, or maybe a 8-10 mil, 3 year deal. I wouldn’t be opposed to that. He could be good offense off the bench as a combo G, with Cisco running the team.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
This is the deal I'm talking about.
A few years ago, Robinson was looking to get a whole lot more than this. After yet another atrocious 1 1/2 of Knicks ball, Robinson will be lucky to get a contact like this.
If people think I’m crazy just remember these names-
Vernon Maxwell
Tony Delk
Bobby Jackson
Eddie House
even Beno Udrih
GP loves his combos.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
The Mid Level also inspires mediocrity too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That is a belief of mine that I often profess.
None of the combo guys were MLE players though. I guess you could also add Quincy Douby to this list as well. The good thing about combo guards is that they seldom cost a whole lot of cash- 2-3 mill a year. It’s when you think they are starters and pay them accordingly- Beno- that you really hang yourself out to dry. I love what Beno id this last year but really, like Carl Landry, Beno is a great 1st guy off the bench player. If Beno and Carl are not starters but in your top 7-8, you have a good team IMO.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
At this time in 2008 Westbrook was supposed to go #10-#15
And he ended up going #4. A lot can change in the next three weeks. It’s not likely, but anything’s possible.
I remember him be more in the 8-12 range....
….but that’s splitting hairs. I don’t think Bradley’s anything more than a mid-1st rounder at best. I would love him as a 3rd guard. But not a starter quality player in the NBA.
See, I think he'd be ideal next to Tyreke
A rich man’s Beno, able to play smothering guards on PGs and handle a lot of the playmaking. But he’s still very much a work in progress, and I get why people aren’t sold.
I agree with you about ideal next to Tyreke.
Just not with the #5 pick. So you either trade down and shed Noc’s deal and get an asset or other. Or you go out and buy a mid-1st round pick to draft him there.
Exactly: he could be the ideal backcourt mate to Evans
This guy’s defense is what makes him special. And he has a good midrange game. Once he develops NBA range and some playmaking skills, watch out.
The 5th pick is perhaps a bit high for him, but I won’t cry if GP takes him anyway.
Interesting list, thorough thought process and some good oints. Reke’d.
Dunking Dutchman
Agreed
I would love to get both Cousins and Bradley. If we could trade into the 10-15 range and pick up Bradley, it would be ideal. I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Donte to get this pick as I think Casspi is ultimately going to be the better player.
IND and NOH are already in Lux Tax territory
no need to give away talent, they only want cap space and we have plenty were not going to use.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Great Read NBRANS
I agree on Monroe. And I liked him since last year. But as has been said I’m usually a fan of prospects from Georgetown. They always seem to have a decent to high Basketball IQ, and they always get questioned about the motor they have and then turn out to be very solid pro’s.
I hope we can get a 100% game changer who can help control the paint defensively. But if we don’t Getting a cog to our machine would not hurt. And I think Monroe could be much better than just a Cog.
We shall see though. I’m bummed that Monroe is not working-out with a group and instead is just doing a solo.
Bring on the workouts!
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 4, 2010 3:27 PM PDT reply actions
have been waiting for this nbrans and you did not disappoint, well done
I’ve seen Lawal all over the mock drafts, is it likely that he makes it to the second round? If Sac drafts Monroe does that make Hawes redundant? Hawes and Monroe seem to share many similarities in their game. If drafting Monroe allows Petrie to trade Spencer that would be fine with me and make the drafting of Monroe palatable. Otherwise my reaction to Monroe is the same as it would be for Aldrich, he just doesn’t seem to be a game changer for us.
I may have missed it (definitely going to reread your post) but since we don’t draft in a vacuum who are your picks at 5 and 33? Great stuff, have been waiting for this for…………………..almost a year. As soon as Dalt’s analysis gets posted I can quit looking at all the rest of the mocks posted around the internets knowing I have all the info I need to either freak out or cheer when the King’s first pick is announced. Thanks.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Thanks, Bluejohn!
For #5 my list is at the end. For #33 I agree with you about Lawal – I think he’s going to be tough, kind of like a bigger, more athletic Brockman.
I don’t think Monroe would necessarily make Hawes redundant as I think Monroe’s quickness allows him to play more PF. But he would certainly cut into Hawes’ role and may necessitate trading Hawes. I wasn’t very high on Monroe last year, but his improved rebounding this year combined with the fact that he’s quicker than Hawes makes me feel like he’ll end up being better than Spencer.
And yeah, I can’t wait for Dalt’s list too.
So when are we good to make fun of Teague for real?
Can we get excited when he finally matches up with Rubio?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Haha
I wanted to insert something along those lines, but I’m glad we’re on the same page.
So what’s with the excitement about the draft? You think the prospects may be a bit better than you thought at first or is it just draft fever?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
My excitement is coming from a few places
Part draft fever, part that I think it’s a deep draft (at least on rotational players) so I’m feeling good about the #33 pick, part that there’s less pressure on this draft since we got the ROY and the best SF in last year’s draft.
But also I think two guys at the top of the draft are overrated (Turner and Favors) so I’m feeling pretty good about where the Kings are picking.
by nbrans on Jun 4, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is pretty much how I'm feeling too.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 5, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Your list is so JeffTeague-diculous. I mean: It's Teagdiculous!
On a serious note, though, some issue’s with some of the stuff you said.
This is true of Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard and pretty much every player. Those guys would be stars in the right situation, but quite often their situation is viewed due to external circumstances sometimes out of each players control.
But his success is going to depend a lot on landing in the right situation.
Quite often, the circumstance the player is going to WILL determine their career. Tyreke Evans was great over his rookie season, regardless of position (combo G—but do we need to have this discussion again?) , and shows potential moving forward. I think we’re all pleased with this.
I disagree with you about Jerome Randle. Randle will never be a lockdown defender or a physical guy. But he’s a leader type who helped his teams to get better under Montgomery and can shoot. I realize that’s a limited assessment for a guy, but I’d rather have a guy who can do what Randle does and do it well. Not many 5’9 PG’s have a TS% of 60. Sherron Collins isn’t close. Avery Bradley? Forget it. And Randle had 2 years of 60+ TS%. Plus he can run the offense and could very well have leadership qualities that rarely hurts a roster. A role player who has a valuable skill can make a team better even if he’s not a star. That’s essentially Randle’s role as I see it in the NBA. Whose to say it can’t happen?
I think you’re making a big mistake putting Brackins at 2. We’ll see whose right here, but I think you’re underselling Favors. I’m not saying your criticisms of Favors are invalid, but I just don’t see Favors like you do. Part of it’s philosophy and part of it’s simple exposure. At this point, where I think you & differ on Favors, is that I see Favors having some real translatable qualities right now that can help a NBA team. You see him as being too raw. I see his playing with Lawal as playing to all of his weaknesses rather than his strengths. I see this being more of a Westbrook/Collison situation and you see it more of a Brandan Wright deal. (Wright wasn’t nearly as good rebounding as Favors though. And, the ACC by DR% was significantly worse in 2007 than it was in 2010.)
At this point, I think it’s more that I think highly of Gani Lawal than I do of Wright/Hansborough. (Although I liked Wright because of his potential. Should have known better. I’ve come a way at this stuff since 2007. But I guess I’ll always have Jason Smith….) Like you, I think Lawal could have an excellent career in the NBA.
I do heavily disagree that shot blocking is a major fundamental skill of defense. Look at Webber/Divac’s career D-Rating’s while with the Kings. Neither were great shot blockers (Webber was middling at best) and the Kings still played quality defense. It’s more about positional defense than anything else that gets you stops in the NBA. Rebounding matters too.
I do agree that Favors is too passive at times. Part of that was Lawal and part of that is I don’t think by nature he’s a go getter type of offensive player. That can change as Favors gets older.
It’s funny you have Orton & Whiteside on your lists. I wouldn’t touch either guy with a 10 foot pole. Just not feeling it with either. On the other hand, the Hawks had a personnel guy say in the AJC that he doesn’t expect much help out of the 24th pick. What makes this interesting is that this was said after Seraphin had his knee injury. I’m sure that having either Motiejunas/Seraphin in the mix would make this guy happier. (Note: Happier.)
Well done as usual. I do appreciate your perspective even though I don’t agree with it down the line. But since when are we all predisposed to agree with each other. That would just be StR group think……
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think that's a good point about situation
Though I think some players need the right situation more than others. Tyreke would have been good no matter who he played for – he was obviously better on the Kings than he probably would have been playing alongside Durant, but I don’t doubt that he would have made an impact.
But niche players like Robinson who are hustle/spot up shooters can be extremely valuable in the right situation, or not as much in the wrong situation. Kind of like how James Posey was so important to the Heat and Celtics a few years back but put him on a mediocre team and there’s not much value, or Robert Horry throughout his career.
Disagree a lot about OKC
Tyreke & RW0 are so inefficient offensively. I think much of the harmony that each creates wouldn’t have worked well. Presti made the brilliant decision to leave multiple players who were better (Curry, Evans) for a player who fit in perfectly for the Thunder on 2 ends. Most GM’s don’t.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
One area where we disagree.
It’s not always about the BPA when you have players like Westbrook/Durant on the roster.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I can.....
…but I wonder is the Curry you saw in GS the last 4 months the same Curry playing with Westbrook? Personally, I see it more of a fit/skills/rotation thing with Harden/Curry. I don’t think Presti was worried about Rubio/Evans at any point (especially Reke).
I don’t think Harden was that bad his rookie year. And, I don’t think you can judge him as a failure relative to his draft position. OKC had no choice to draft him at 3 because there wasn’t any real offers they wanted to trade down.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think Harden was bad
but Durant/Westbrook/Curry is a team on a championship trajectory not a Durent/Westbrook/Harden we’re getting pretty good trajectory.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I think they're missing up front anyway.
I’m not sure Curry helps them more than Harden cuz of the defense factor.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am late to the party - First off, the wait was worth it. You have an engaging voice describing the pros and cons of the draft
Rec’d the post.
As for Harden – wow! you guys are harsh. I am a Harden fan. I think as a 19 year old on an up and coming team he played well and often. He may or may not be an All-Star but he is a solid starter. He is a jack of all trades with room to grow. Few faults, good decision maker. He will overtake Thabo as the starter I am guessing – unless the Swissman? Switzerlander? can deliver some more passing and a mid range jumper. Not bad having a second squad of Harden, Maynor and Ibaka. These three will all develop a little slower because they will have diminished playing time. Patience my friends, patience, it has been only one year. Nice job Presti.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 5, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with what you said of Harden
I just think Curry could’ve been better for OKC.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I think the delusions of grandeur have grabbed you here.
You can’t have 6 stars on your team. You need a pecking order, and guys who can contribute to your squad without necessarily needing all the shots or the glory.
It’s a tough thing to do, and that’s one reason so few teams win so few championships.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
OKC has Durant and Westbrook as stars
I don’t see 6 anywhere. Unless you think Green, Ibaka, and Sefolosha are stars. Curry could be a third.
Let’s check the championship teams this past decade:
Lakers: Kobe and Shaq (two major stars!)
Spurs: Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker
Detroit: TEAM
Miami: Wade and Shaq
Lakers: Kobe and Pau
I see what you’re saying. You don’t need that many stars to win, you also need good role players. I just don’t see how Curry doesn’t help OKC more than Harden
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Defense versatility not needing the ball he duplicates Westbrook in his passing
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Let me put it this way Eddie
Think about all the things you need to be successful on a basketball court. Then remember that you can play only 5 guys at a time.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So what does Harden bring that Curry doesn't?
Or how does Curry negatively affect OKC on the floor?
I can see certain redundancy with some of his skills but I don’t know what else you’re thinking about.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Bigger & better defender.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
OKC needs to start Ibaka next year
and have Jeff Green work in as a 6th man of the year candidate. That is, of course, if Maynor gives Presti the green light.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Jun 6, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What team has ever had too many stars?
Yeah, the 03/04 Lakers didn’t end up winning it all, but that had as much to do with age than chemistry. I don’t buy this idea that you stop adding the most talent you absolutely can.
Of course you don't.
I’m saying it’s not that simple. Also, I think Ibaka will be that 3rd star.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think he'll develop offensively
as much as he’d need to in order to become a star. He’s still a very nice piece, and needs to start starting next year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I think you're missing a key point
about getting the most value for your pick. If you can get a potential star, you take him, even if he’s not a good fit. Figure out the fit later.
Think if they were playing Curry as 6th man and he played well, don’t you think they could get a James Harden type as well as another piece for him?
Yeah but why get two potential starts who play the exact same position? If they drafted Curry he wouldn't have done nearly as much with the Thunder as he did with the Warriors
Besides, if they were to get a “potential star” during the draft, it would have been Rubio or Tyreke not Curry.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
or Flynne I suppose
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you remember the hype around James Harden last year?
The next Brandon Roy!!! I think they thought they were drafting more than a roleplayer.
Is it just me or has it become the standard to call every SG prospect with somewhat questionable athletic ability the next Brandon Roy?
I don’t get it
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, basically
And it’s all based around the misconception that Brandon Roy is somehow not an extremely good athlete with a 40" vertical (which I repeat again and again and again)
and your right
He was definitely getting more hype than Tyreke or Flynn. I just don’t really understand people treating it like a bad draft pick. They already had a very young and talent Westbrook at the point. Westbrook was already a freak athlete who showed promise at the point.
I don’t see why people say they should have drafted on potential alone and thus picked Curry instead of Harden. If they were just going off potential they should have picked Tyreke. Of course, that would seem a bit odd given that he nor Westbrook can shoot. Why does everyone seem to understand that wouldn’t fit yet Westbrook and Curry together would have?
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Harden was a star in a tough conference
He showed the ability to create his own shot, was the team leader and led the SunDevils to a respectable record despite not much talent on the squad.
Harden is a poised, unspectacular player. I don’t recall the Brandon Roy comparisons, but it is the “under control” play of Roy that harkens to Harden.
And check out the combine numbers on Harden. He is not unathletic.
Lastly, yes, I would love to have him paired with Evans.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 6, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
didn't read right at the end
Why does everyone seem to understand that wouldn’t fit yet they claim that Westbrook and Curry together would have? That doesn’t make much sense to me.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Just a couple guesses
Curry can play off the ball and Westbrook can continue to handle it.
Curry can shoot from outside, Westbrook not so much (Imagine Durant in one wing and Curry in the other)
On defense, Westbrook can always guard the SG and Curry guard the PG.
They’re both combo guards (it’s similar to having Reke and Beno, only with Curry being better than Beno)
Out of all the PG prospects and after all we know now, Curry could’ve been a better pick. Doesn’t mean that Harden was a terrible pick either, it’s just that Curry could’ve been better.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Well I disagree with the logic then
On defense, Westbrook can always guard the SG and Curry guard the PG.
They’re both combo guards (it’s similar to having Reke and Beno, only with Curry being better than Beno)
These were two top 5 picks. These are guys you want long term, at least two contracts. I just don’t see Westbrook being able to play significant minutes guarding SGs. I just don’t. As for the comparison with Beno, to me the Beno/Tyreke combination is a lot more temporary. It’s not a perfect situation. Not saying it’s bad I just think it’s not the same thing.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
RW came in the league as a combo G
Some even said he couldn’t play PG. That’s why Rubio was in play with the 4th pick. I disagree 100% Westbrook can’t guard SGs. He’s a very good young defender.
And how is Tyreke and Beno not similar?
Both Reke and RW can’t shoot (yet), can handle the ball, and run their teams. They are also good at getting to the rack and are decent rebounders.
Curry is just a better Beno. PG skills with very good shooting.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Thabo is perfect in the starting position
I love him in the starting lineup; his great defense made up for Durant’s past deficiencies, and his shooting allows him to space the floor on offense. He plays a bit of a Bruce Bowen role, and I think Coach Brooks likes it like that too.
No matter how good Harden becomes, I just think he’s better as a 6th man, because he can create on his own when Durant and Westbrook sit.
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
decent argument
either way, nice to have options. The Thunder have a nice second unit either way and I expect this summer will improve it further.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 6, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I've often wondered what would have happened to Tyreke if the Kings had won the #1 pick.
Assuming that the Kings would have taken Griffin, would there have been any teams in the top 10 that Evans would have gotten 20,5,5 or have won ROY. What other teams in the top 10 would have been a good situation for Evans?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think there would have been other good situations. Maybe not 20-5-5 good but good nevertheless
Clippers, Grizzlies, and NY
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
If the draft order had remained the same
Except with the Kings going 1 and the Clippers 4th, I think Reke would have gone to Minnesota at 5.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Let's say the Kings jump to #1 and clippers silp to 2 and everyone else stays in order
how many of the top 10 take Evans. And, does he win ROY on any of those other teams. Who take Evans
Clipps- no
Griz-no
Thunder-no
Twolves-no (rubio)
Twolfs-yes
Warriors-?/no
Knicks-?/yes
Raptors-?/no
Bucks-yes
So, does he win ROY with the Twolfs, Warriors or Bucks? Or, possibly the Knicks?
I thinks the Twolfs take him at 6, to offer Rubio more salary to come over or to pay Evans less if Rubio stays in Europe. But, does Minny have the shooters to get Evans 20,5,5 or ROY which was driven by 20,5,5 I think not..
I think the only other teams where Tyreke can get ROY is NY and MIL. East coast bias or Evans taking Mil deeper in to the playoffs so yes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Also I don't disagree with you that much about Favors
I think you see what he can be, and you’re optimistic about him reaching his potential. I feel like even alongside Lawal he should have showed more than he did, though I think it’s a fair point that it probably detracted from his rebounding. You just see the best-case, I see the worst-case.
I don't see his worst case being that low.
I think that’s the real difference.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't think his ceiling is that low either
I’m not saying he’s going to bounce out of the league, just that I think he’s going to be kind of like Tyrus Thomas – someone you would have liked a lot more if you didn’t draft him in the #2-4 range.
I think Thomas would have developed much better in Sac than Chi.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Under Reggie or Kenny?
Ron-Ron and TT – the headlines would have been classic.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 5, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. Even with Uncle Ron-Ron around.
And, I’ve stated this in the past, but I don’t think it was the development of players or the losses that got Reggie fired. It was the inconsistent way Reggie acted when running the team, and how he handled Martin’s injury that peeved GP.
Beyond that, I would have much rather had Tyrus Thomas.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Still wouldn't mind Tyrus Thomas
depending on who we draft.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
you do know we are talking about the Tyrus Thomas who played for the Bulls and now the Bobs, right Aykis?
wasn’t sure you were a fan of his. I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 6, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
The one with a career 5.2% Block percentage?
and 20.8 % defensive rebound percentage? It’s his offense that people need to be worried about, not so much his head. I think he re-ups with the Bobs though.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I can see him after a few years
accepting the fact he is a role player and not taking so many dumb shots. I think he can still have a great deal of success. It’s not like he doesn’t have a drive to play in the league.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 6, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing that made the King's big men
quality defenders in the post (even though they were not good shotblockers) was taking charges! I would rather take a charge and be assured to get the ball back then block the shot and maybe get the ball back.
Just my opinion.
I think you should be able to BLOCK shots. But you can do so much more than simply blocking (as you both know). A solid presence in the middle alters shots and takes charges as well as get’s the occasional block.
Ala: Divac, Varejao, Webber, Ilgauskas etc.
Even though we have been starving for a good shot-blocker. I would just be happy with a decent post defender who can take a charge and block a shot here and there.
Also, did you see where the Kings were rated 20th in defense this past season? Quite the jump from dead last. (I know, I know slow getting on the boat here)
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 5, 2010 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, I think @ 15
You take a chance on Whiteside.
But again that’s just my opinion. :D (call it my Marshall bias if you must)
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 5, 2010 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Taking a charge often turns into FT's for the other team when the ref calls it Blocking
Blocks most often come from the weakside help defender, or in the case of Cisco, from behind after his man get’s by him.
But, I totally agree with having a decent post defender, but it needs to be a starter. Having one who plays 20mpg against the opponents reserves doesn’t gain you that much. And, he must be able to finish strong off the offensive glass. So, I wouldn’t rule out JT just yet.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Agree about JT.
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 6, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, HT
Going for the block doesn’t result in FT’s?
Again. I like blocked shots! They are the Dunk of the Defensive side of the ball. They get people jazzed up and get the crowd into it. But I would much rather have an effective Charge-Taker than Shot-Blocker due to the fact that you are assured the ball with the charge.
That’s all.
Other than that I agree.
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 7, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone could get injured in the charge. Some refs might see it as a foul and the call could go to the other team.
I’ll take the block.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
I can live with that, there's room for both.
Although charges are one of the least frequent defensive plays in the game, and Centers only average 0.15 per game. And of the top 25 only 2 average more the 0.5. It does does take a pretty brave guy to stand there with someone running full speed at them. But I imagine that most of the centers are just standing there when there man turns and drive into them. It more like being in the right place at the wrong time, than some act of bravery.
I’m just trying to show that there might be more blocking calls then charging calls, So, your not really guaranteed to get the ball back when you step out to take a charge. Or, going for the block.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I don't disagree with your basic premise here, (taking a charge is good)
but, that said, Vlade was a good shot blocker. Actually, make that a very good shot blocker. The guy is 24th all-time in the history of the NBA in that category.
Seems like I keep saying this but even though he didn’t get great elevation, we seem to forget that Vlade was a better than average athlete with good timing and quick reflexes.
C-Webb was also a very dangerous shot blocker, at least when his knees were healthy.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Vlade was a one of a kind center.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Agreed with that. But Specifically in his last couple seasons he really took a lot of charges/flops.
Still blocked a decent amount of shots. But post defense is so much more than raw shot blocking. That is all I am saying. :D
Blessings.Love.Peace
Want to listen to some independent music? Visit: www.nixonsghost.com
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 6, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep, agreed.
And what people don’t always realize is that to take a charge effectively requires quickness and great timing, in much the same way as shot blocking does.
It also takes a fair amount of guts to position yourself in front of a 230 pound guy driving hard to the basket.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
2010 Positional Rankings, or How I'm Actually Kind of Excited
TWSS
Nice title. That’s a lot of positions.
To be the best, you have to do your best. Otherwise, you are only second-rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Jun 4, 2010 6:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That’s a lot of positions.
Speak for yourself.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 5, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Well done, nbrans
As usual, bold, insightful and entertaining.
Reke’d.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
glad to see someone else high on Bradley
when I saw him at #3 for you, I did a double take to make sure there wasn’t another Bradley who played a different position
Great post
as always, one of the best posts of the year.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I'm high on Bradley also
I love the athleticism and the defense; the fact he’s got some offensive game is a plus. I wouldn’t really call him a rich man’s Beno yet, but he has a good chance to get there.
Great post nbrans, and very informative as well; I didn’t get to watch a lot of the prospects this year, so thanks for the information.
I like Bradley ok, I think that James Anderson is under rated by you.
I like the shooting that Anderson has and I think that he can be (if not already) a good defender. I like him next to Tyreke more than Avery B.
I agree with your take on Favors. He had the opportunity to impress and he has not. His team, most notably underachieved. I have a problem with that. Mostly, it is all the exceptions that are used to cover underwhelming play. Lawal, “bad” point guards. May be true, less likely than likely IMO.
I also like Udoh and think he is a solid player. As I mentioned, he is 23 (as are a few prospects this draft) and that is a fortunate thing for Ekpe. His most obvious fault is lack of size and strength. His now at the age where he will put on muscle. (yes, Jason Thompson will be bigger too – scary, but good scary).
I like PatPat and feel he has the chance to really excel on the right squad that is power forward poor. He will be a better Taj Gibson, maybe a bit more of a young Elton Brand (I have also called him Horace Grant and Paul Milsap – I may just like him because I can attach names to him).
Lastly – there is the Monroe controversy. skilled big men are few in the League – unless they are Euros. I think Monroe is young and is growing into his upside. He may be the Spencer Hawes that Paul Westphal is looking for. He may be just as stubborn and disappoint. If the Kings can get a true low post defender he (Monroe) may be outstanding. He may be a version of CWebb lite – which wouldn’t be all bad.
Thanks again for spending the time and effort to share your views about the draft. This is truly a highlight to the post season.
Thanks, BTE!
I definitely agree that Anderson is really good and has the potential to be a Michael Redd type, if he’s able to hit 3s consistently. I just have him low on my for-the-Kings rankings because I think down the line Tyreke is going to be spending more time at the 2, and accordingly a shooting guard isn’t going to have much of a chance at minutes. I still think the ideal is pairing Tyreke with a combo guard who can handle some playmaking but can also play off the ball and shoot when Tyreke is driving.
James Anderson reminds me a lot of James Harden actually.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
It's not a bad comparison
Though Anderson is a bit bigger, has more hops, and isn’t the passer that Harden is. But physically they’re built similarly and have somewhat similar games. People praise Harden’s ballhandling, but he’s still not very good at going right and Anderson is also sometimes a shaky ballhandler.
"He may be the Spencer Hawes that Paul Westphal is looking for."
This is why I’m a fan of Monroe; he is skilled like very few others and is athletic enough to be good. He is coachable, willing to learn, and really improve himself, and I’m not sure I see that willingness in Hawes. Monroe may be similar to Hawes but that difference is the one that makes Monroe the much greater valued player.
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
He is coachable, willing to learn, and really improve himself, and I’m not sure I see that willingness in Hawes
This (and the knee) issues are the only reasons why I don’t trust Hawes improving much. I worry about Cousins having very similar type of issues.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
red flag alert!
I am, of course, referring to DeMarcus “Red Flag” Cousins. That is always the concern with weight. Heavier players and bodies that are “too heavy” are at much greater risk for injury – the added stresses on a body cannot be dismissed.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 6, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
What, are you a doctor now? ; )
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
I had a dream last night
I was with Ziller watching the draft. Kings are picking… and we get a 7’1 Arab center named Mujih. No one knew him, no website had him in the 1st or 2nd round of the mock drafts. I searched the web and saw that he had some good double double games in a lowly Arabic league. We were all so frozen and angry, but still had hope.
It was frightening.
by ZenBaller on Jun 7, 2010 5:02 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
It's coming back in flashes lol
I remember me yelling “OMG THIS IS A PETRIE PICK! A PETRIE PICK! He’s got to be good!”
Great Stuff
Very informative and entertaining read…thanks!
I watch a lot of UK ball this year, and I wanted to weigh in on a few of the guys that aren’t getting as much attention as Wall and Cousins…
Eric Bledsoe
I’m a big fan of Bledsoe. He seems to lack ideal size, but he has great length (a ridiculous 6’7’’ or 6’9’’ equivalent reach for his height) and good intensity. He has played off the ball while at UK because Wall took over PG duties, but he’d still handle the rock and run the offense a bit even, when Wall was in the game — this experience seems like it would help Blesdoe become a great backcourt mate for Tyreke.
He is a streaky shooter, but also a fearless shooter at times, and I think teams need a killer mentality from at least one of their shooters. Defensively he provides great effort, though he tends to gamble in the passing lanes a bit too much for my tastes; this may speak to his youth, and can be fixed with better defensive coaching. Offensively he plays a little fast at times, but like his defensive gambling issues, may be a product of youth.
Patrick Patterson
I’m a huge Patterson fan. I watched the guy play for two years, and there’s basically nothing about his game I don’t like. Two years ago (before Cousins) arrived, Patterson averaged about 20-10, and most of that was blue collar work in the post. Oftentimes Patterson would run the floor and attempt to establish deep post position early, and you could watch him battle for position while his guards worked the perimeter. He would do this over and over, quietly making sure the team could take advantage of his effort, even if he wasn’t getting the ball often.
Defensively, I thought Patterson was phenomenal. Seemed like he was rarely caught out of position, and if he was he recovered quickly. He stayed home on his assignment when he needed to, and rotated when he needed to…and he showed pretty well on screens. His positioning on post defense was particularly good, and he did a good job of not going up early on shot fakes, staying grounded until the shot actually went up.
One of the stand-out things about Patterson is that even though he had established himself as a very good post player, he did what was asked of him and moved out into the perimeter once Cousins arrived. Not only did accept being taken out of the post, but he learned to improve his outside game so he would still be effective — his outside jumper, specifically his 3-pt shooting (!!) improved dramatically. He just doesn’t seem to make a fuss, and his high character persona seems to have shone through in interviews, workouts, and general reputation so far.
Patterson’s size has been an issue to some, although his combine measurements (in terms of height, reach, and athletic measures) seem to have come out fine.
Daniel Orton
I like Orton. He still has a ways to go in terms of experience and, to some degree, maturity level, but he has good size and defensive chops to make it as an NBA center. With regards to post defense, Orton was waaay better than Cousins this past year, even in limited playing time. He looked much more fundamentally sound defending the post, and was a good shot blocker.
Offensively, he showed some flashes, but his post game lacked overall polish, and he is nowhere near being a great offensive post guy. But, on a team where he wouldn’t be leaned on to generate much offense with his back to the basket, he could develop and thrive into a good rebounding, defensive presence.
Bonus: Trevor Booker
(disclaimer: I am a Clemson fan…but I’ll try to keep this as unbiased as possible)
IMO, if Trevor Booker was a few inches taller, he might be in the lottery discussion. That being said, he’s an interesting guy to consider with a later pick. He plays with high energy all the time, and is bursting with athleticism. He’s a post guy, but due to his lack of ideal size, he doesn’t play with his back to the basket all the time. He can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop, is a decent defender, and a good shot blocker. Defensively, you could count on him to play with energy and effort. Offensively, I can see him being a good off-the-bench big, setting tough screens, not requiring many touches, and taking only what the defense gives him. He also runs the floor well for a big, and would probably be good for a rim-rattling dunk on the break once a game or so.
Interesting comments on the UK players, sactoreg
I’d like to hear your thoughts on Cousins.
i’m slowly getting interested in Bledsoe, and I love what you wrote about Patterson. He looks like a great pick. The question is if you’d pick them at #5.
Dunking Dutchman
Actually
I was working on a FanPost I had titled “Why I Don’t Like DeMarcus Cousins”. I personally think if he’s available at #5, you take him, but I wanted to point out some of the things I observed that irked me about Cousins. However, a lot of stuff about Cousins has been posted since then, so instead of putting up the FanPost, I’ll just add some of the content from the (unfinished) FanPost here.
Mental Issues
Lets knock these out of the way first. Much has been chronicled regarding Cousins’ attitude and mental red flags, so I won’t rehash them here. What I will do is describe how I think they affect his play on the court.
When Cousins didn’t get a call he thought he should on offense, he was often late getting back on defense, as he took some time to complain a bit. Of course, a lot of players do this, but man, did it seem like he did it a lot…
When he didn’t get a lot of touches, his overall play seemed to deteriorate. When he becomes a professional he’s going to have to learn to deal with this. In general, I am not a fan of a guy who’s effectiveness drops when he isn’t getting touches on the offensive end. Upper tier guys (who you hope to have a chance of getting at #5) can contribute in different ways when their offense isn’t there for whatever reason, and I am a little weary about whether Cousins will able to contribute without being part of the offense often.
Cousins (to me) was not a good defender
Cousins did not seem to showcase good fundamental defense in the post. He was oftentimes abused by opposing guards driving to the hole. He tried to take charges waaay too early, quite often, which led to ballhandlers just dribbling around him for layups like he was a stationary cone. Cousins showed a lack of urgency in making defensive rotations as well.
Yes, he did block 1.8 shots a game, but I attribute that to a couple things. First, he has massive size — he towered over most college players, and college post men going heads-up with Cousins that didn’t have strength, great athleticism, and intelligent post moves (like many guys he will face in the NBA) just got their shot attempts rejected. Second, Kentucky’s perimeter defenders (John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Liggins) are all long and extremely athletic. They mostly stayed in front of their man, but when they gave up penetration it was in a way that funneled opposing guards into a wall of bigs; it was not uncommon to see an opposing player take a layup attempt with Patrick Patterson, Cousins, and heck, even another UK player all jumping in unison to completely obliterate the shot. Cousins benefited from this also.
Overall Post Playstyle
My roommate and I had nicknamed Cousins “The Black Hole”, as when Cousins received a pass on the block, regardless of whether it looked like he had a good scoring opportunity, he was going to put up a shot. Until late in the season, he did not pass the ball out once he received it down low. Of course, with most young players, he can learn to pass more, but I have my doubts that he will become a good post passer. On a team with shooters (Udrih, Casspi, Landry to an extent, from midrange) and guys that can cut to the hoop, his traditional post-up style without passing ability could be less than advantageous.
His style could also affect versatility on offense. Cousins was most effective around the near-basket area; he can hit a jumper from 10-15ft, but he was most effective sitting on the low block. Hawes can play the low post, but also come out to the high post and nail 15-18 footers (or threes…) and use his passing to find cutters. Landry can post up, but also has range on his shot, and is decent and putting the ball on the floor. Thompson also can post, but (especially early in the season) has show flashes of better-than-average passing ability. When any mix of Hawes/Thompson/Landry were on the court, they could play different parts of the interior on offense and mesh well. However, I think that if Cousins is on the floor, he has to occupy the low post, and may not contribute in other areas in terms of passing or setting up in the high post. In fact, in his one season at UK, Cousins presence on the floor forced teammate Patrick Patterson out of the paint area and into the perimeter. Patterson was a pretty darn good post player before Cousins arrived, yet he was relegated to perimeter offense when on the court with Cousins.
That ends what I had in the FanPost. However, there is a lot of stuff I like about Cousins (as I said, if he’s there at #5, I think you have to take him). He has quite advanced post moves for a guy his age, and he has good rebounding instincts. I think he could immediately step in and start at center for us, and the staff would find a way for him to fit decently well playing alongside Thompson or Landry.
As for drafting Patterson, I would not mind having him on the team, but #5 seems a bit high for him. If anything I would prefer us to trade down and pick up some assets on the way, and try to snag him with the lower pick.
by sactoreg on Jun 7, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
As you say, "If he's there at #5, you have to take him."
Despite all the critical points you make about Cousins, I think your stance on having to take him at the 5 spot is really an endorsement. I agree and only hope he will still be there at the 5 spot.
Just a few comments on some of your points:
When Cousins didn’t get a call he thought he should on offense, he was often late getting back on defense, as he took some time to complain a bit.
I see allowing events that happen within the game to interrupt a player’s focus, more common among the younger more inexperienced players. Whether it be a refs call, a hard foul, lack of a call, or even celebrating a made basket, I see this more among the newcomers. Veterans learn it can be costly to let these things upset their game. JT had to learn that his getting upset with refs for calling fouls on him, wasn’t helping his situation. Greene, likewise, has toned down and shortened his celebratory behavior following his dunks, alley-oops, and blocks.
He has quite advanced post moves for a guy his age, and he has good rebounding instincts. I think he could immediately step in and start at center for us, and the staff would find a way for him to fit decently well playing alongside Thompson or Landry.
Despite your criticisms of Cousins’ post play, I think your summation speaks highly for this young man. After all, he is a young man and as such has a lot to learn at the NBA level. The very fact that he can “immediately step in and start at center for us” speaks volumes, especially when you consider all the time and work that has been devoted to Spencer. Just think of the player Cousin’s will become with the coaching attention, which will be devoted to him.
I enjoyed reading your comments. I couldn’t comment as to your observations of him being a poor post defender and “Black Hole,” as I didn’t watch college BB. You do indicate that there was apparent improvement toward the end of the season of his passing the ball more to other players rather than always attempting to score. I seem to recall, there is another player who has been criticized for similar ball-hogging play, by the name of Tyreke.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Yeah, I think we take him at #5
The post was not meant necessarily to blast Cousins, just to point out some facets of his game I didn’t like, specifically regarding non-mental-issues stuff. He has potential and good physical gifts, and I think if those gifts are available at the #5, we should grab him.
Thanks
Very interesting. You summed up a lot of what I feared about Cousins, and unlike Slam Dunk, I don’t see much of an endorsement. Picking Cousins at #5 seems like a calculated gamble. I’d do it too, but I’m not comfortable with it.
Dunking Dutchman
You're right, there's not much endorsement there
And part of that is because the original intention was to only point out the bad stuff. There are things Cousins does very well that could help the Kings, but I only looked at the negatives.
Your last couple sentences sum up my thoughts just about perfectly.
Wow surprised I missed this. You should make a fanpost. I like your approach on the "red flags."
My roommate and I had nicknamed Cousins "The Black Hole", as when Cousins received a pass on the block, regardless of whether it looked like he had a good scoring opportunity, he was going to put up a shot.
Wow just looked at his assist numbers. Yuck. Eerily similar to Amare.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 7, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He's worse passing out of double teams than Al Jefferson.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If you really want to see a "Black Hole", watch Landry
He averaged 31mpg over 79 games and only averaged 0.8 assists. When he goes one on one he never gives up the ball.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yeah but he's not a major league headcase and you're not asking him necessarily to score and create double teams out of them.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Rebounding
I’m actually more concerned about Landry’s 5.9 rebounds in 31 minutes. In the last 5 games he only averaged 5.4 rebounds in 38+ minutes. Terrible for a PF
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Can we say bench scorer?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So sorry to be late nbrans
Fantastic write up! I have saved this onto my favorites to peruse it come draft day and beyond. My scores will be posted this weekend I hope, followed by comments in the next few days. I love it, but the number crunching after a while is a BIATCH. lol
btw, great call on Jordan Crawford. I tend to agree with you about transitioning into the NBA.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
This.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

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