On Hedo Turkoglu and Bad Ideas
by Aykis16 on Jun 8, 2010 9:45 AM PDT
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PrintAs you've no doubt heard, Hedo Turkoglu has apparently expressed a desire to return to Sacramento. Ever since Turkoglu was traded from Sacramento, there have consistently been rumors of Sacramento and more specifically, Geoff Petrie, wanting him back, so there could be credence to the rumors that the Raptors and Kings will talk.
But I think its a bad idea, unless the Raptors make a horribly lopsided trade in Sacramento's favor. Here's why.
1. Hedo Turkoglu has 4 years and 43.8 million left on his contract. The 4th year is a player option for 12 million dollars that Brother Hedo would be absolutely insane to waive. Taking into account that the new CBA will likely lower the salary cap and player salaries, Hedo's contract could look even worse than it does now.
2. Andres Nocioni, the player mentioned in the Woj article as being the one dealt for Turkoglu, has only 2 years left, with a 3rd year as a team option that is unlikely to be picked up. Also, Nocioni's contract declines slightly, while Hedo's rises each year.
3. Hedo has been declining for 3 years in a row now. He will be 31 to start next season, and his statistics from last year are not much different than Andres Nocioni's Per 36 minutes. In fact, Noc averaged more points and the same amount of rebounds as Hedo Per 36. Their FG% and 3P% are relatively comparable as well, although Noc was better from distance. The only thing that Hedo really trumped Nocioni on was assists (4.8 to 1.8 Per 36).
4. Hedo's talent would be largely negated in a system that requires Tyreke Evans to have the ball in his hands most of the time. Hedo is often labeled as a "Point-Forward" because he is so good at creating for others while he has the ball in his hands. But in Sacramento, the ball is going to be in Tyreke's hands for most of the time. Can Hedo play as effectively off the ball?
5. Hedo is definitely a downgrade when compared to Nocioni on the defensive end. While Nocioni was perhaps not as effective on defense this year as he was in years past, Hedo has never been known for his defensive prowess, and his lack of real speed or athleticism limits him in this area. Paul Westphal clearly values defense, sitting players or playing them based on their defensive effort. This was most noteable with Spencer Hawes and Donté Greene.
6. Hedo's addition would mean that if Donté Greene or Omri Casspi (Not to mention that the 5th pick could end up being Wesley Johnson or Al-Farouq Aminu) ever develop into good or even great players, we would have a $10,000,000 + backup for a few years.
Never Forget. Woof.
7. Acquiring Hedo kills a bit of the cap flexibility that Geoff Petrie has taken so long to acquire. A team looking to deal Hedo is not working from a position of strength, as the Kings so often themselves have learned (Chris Webber, Mike Bibby).
8. (Thanks to KF10) - Hedo's contract has a 15% trade kicker, so if the Kings traded for him, his already horrible contract would become 15% worse.
The only way I see the Kings making this trade is if they are able to unload both of their worst contracts (Nocioni and Garcia), and pick up a youngster in Derozan as well as the 13th pick in this years NBA draft. Then it might all be worth it, as Nocioni and Garcia's contracts are lumped into one bad contract as well as reducing our wing depth. Derozan and the 13th pick would be the sweetener for having to take his contract off of Toronto's hands. Just Derozan or the 13th pick wouldn't be enough in my opinion.
I think a lot of the facts back me up. It just wouldn't be a good idea to re-acquire Hedo. I loved him when he was here, and will remember his time here fondly, and I don't want to tarnish those memories. So I'm sorry Brother Hedo, but I just don't think it would work out.
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Good points...
You are right. We would have to get a lot to make it worth it. Definitely have to get a young talent and the 13 pick. Even then, after feeling the bit of the dog, I doubt it happens.
The only thing I would add is that Hedo worked out well in Orlando because they needed his ball handling skills and that may be true is Sac as well.
The offense just stagnates. We lose ball movement and the game grinds to a halt all too often. It got better in the later part of the season when Tyreke started running the ball up the court, but I missed the Spanish spark plug.
If Hedo could keep the ball moving and come with some nice talent as accessories then it might tip the scale a bit.
Tough call.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Yes
and let’s not forget that when Noc gets in there, he never, ever, sees a shot he doesn’t like, creating loads of fast breaks for the opposition. To me, this “possible trade” comes down to obtaining the 13th pick and maybe DeRozan also for getting rid of Nocioni. So, in that case, it would be the pick and DeRozan for Cisco. I know Hedo’s contract is a problem, but so is Noc’s. Hedo is not a bad addition to the Kings. What he is capable of doing is a real boon to the team for the next couple of years.
I think there's a slim possibilty of this trade IF
The Kings have thier heart set on Cousins (or someone) and they their next guy is likely available at #13.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, that #13 pick could be the key
I was wondering why GP was working out guys that are between 5 and 33. This may be why…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I'm throwing out a question here...
Could Hedo do for Donte what he did for Rashard Lewis?
by Travis Mays Hayes on Jun 8, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Different players
Hedo two years ago is not today’s Hedo. Donte is also not Rashard Lewis (at least yet). Systems are also different.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
You don't mean teach him how to get a phat contract and then underachieve, right?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I agree with you for all the reasons you stated
plus I think we are past the time where we need to bring in players from our glory years to drum up support from the fanbase. We have the rookie of the year and a top 5 pick that will probably end up pretty good. I think the time has come to start looking forward instead of looking back.
personally, i know hedo wants to come back but i dont want him back
i want DeRozan (a very athletic wing player to match with Tyreke in the backcourt who doesnt need the ball a lot)
and the 13th pick (which is an interesting spot in this years draft)
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
But if we trade to land the 13th pick...
then all you great writers will have to Re-Post all your Mock Drafts.
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
that is why
i never made one, and they arent mock drafts they are big boards
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jun 8, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
well, I made two mistakes...
One, I replied, when it should have been a normal post. and the formentioned Big Boards
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
I wouldn't.
The 13th is an unknown quantity.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I'll take a chance on Henry or Bradley at 13
don’t do the trade til draft day, and hang up if they’re not there
I think Hedo would be better suited for a contender then a team rebuilding
I wish him the best of luck with some other team, but not ours . . .
Ba-da
Wasn't Toronto a contender?
Still, I could see him as a Spur or maybe a Rocket.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
Was thinking the Rockets as a fit myself. Nice two-man game with him and Yao.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jun 10, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Loved the Hedo when he was here...
but that amount of contractual obligation would be a stranglehold on us… The Kings spent two years getting horrible trying to remove themselves from that noose. Don’t jump back in it!
No way T.O. does that..
People here (in Toronto) absolutely love DeRozan. Him, Weems and il Mago would be the last people Colangelo trades.
Well then Hedo can stay there
That contract isn’t too appealing.
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
I would make that deal happen , we got Omri Casspi with the 20 something pick. ( Not a Bad Pick )
Imagine what we can do with the 13th pick. Very Tempting.
For the capologists out there
What are Noc and Garcia still on the books for in terms of years and $$$ owed?
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ShamSports is your guide my friend
Nocioni has two years guaranteed left for $13.5 million, with a 3rd year team option for $7.5 million. No team is going to pick up that team option.
Cisco has three years guaranteed left for $17.4 million, with a 4th year team option for $6.4 million. That could possibly be picked up depending on how his career goes from here on.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Link
But Cisco has three years left ranging from 5.5 to 6.1 (with an additional team option year)
Noce has 6.8 and 6.6 with an additional option year
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Funny
No one mentions Beno as our bad contract anymore.
Not one person
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
He works so well with Reke and Westphal.
Plus he’ll only be 28 this year. I think Cisco will also be able to redeem himself from bad contract status if given the chance.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
by Aykis16 on Jun 8, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree on Cisco
He’s a valuable player – and a leader.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that's something I failed to mention in my post
Cisco is a great teammate, always plays his hardest, and is a great mentor for the young guys (especially Omri). He is often referred to as the leader of the team by his teammates, and he’s a fan favorite (Andy Sims doesn’t count).
Meanwhile Hedo is pretty lazy and doesn’t really give his all when he’s on the court, especially not last year.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Right
If Cisco can stay on the court (Thats important to remain a leader) I think we need that veteran(ness) for at least another season.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
If you all think this Hedo deal is bad for Toronto now
Just wait until February as the CBA and a possible lock out looms ahead.
NFW do the Kings acquire Hedo unless it as TZiller paints it, and even then it is a big hesitation as Hedo becomes the highest paid King for the next four seasons.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 8, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think it's a horrible deal
But I’m stubborn.
Also, I don’t think Beno can become Wabeno if we don’t constantly talk about how overrated/overpaid he is. If he were a gremlin, criticism would be his water.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Jun 8, 2010 10:15 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hedo is not worth it...
His contract is huge and goes up every year. He needs the ball in his hands a lot and he wouldn’t be that great of a fit. The fact that I would do just about anything to get Noccioni out of town makes this trade interesting, but we would be screwed in the long run. But derozan and the 13th hmmmm…..nah still no good. Beno’s contract sucks.
Yeah, no Hedo please.
Love the guy, but not at that price for that long.
I’d love me some Brad Miller though. Accept your destiny as Spencer Hawes’ Obi-Wan Brad! Teach him the ways of the goofy, white, pick setting, passing Center!
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Jun 8, 2010 10:13 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
frankly, today i dont care about this
today is the day to root for the celtics, so for now, anyone that wants to talk about turkoglu can…
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 8, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
did someone mention cake?
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jun 8, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 14 recs
I love the Panda!
I wanted to adopt, but all the good looking babies were taken
by joeytothelimit on Jun 8, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think this has been discussed already but...
Hedo has a 15% trade kicker. Meaning that, his contract will be approximately ~$50 million.
Rebuilding the Kings.
by KF10 on Jun 8, 2010 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Source?
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
It is within his contract details.
“Signed and traded to a 5 year, $52.8 million contract in July 2009. Contract contains 15% trade kicker.”
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/raptors.jsp
Rebuilding the Kings.
by KF10 on Jun 8, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
Thanks. I’ll update the post.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
That can be waived I believe
and probably would be if he wants out. That would be his Give.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
You can't waive a trade kicker outright though.
You can only minimize the trade kicker for salary purposes/matching.
Rebuilding the Kings.
News to me
Thanks
(What do you mean by minimize?)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I meant he can lower his trade kicker to match salary purposes.
But he can’t waive his TK completely with no reason.
Rebuilding the Kings.
If Hedo wants out bad enough
is he allowed to renegotiate or void his contract? He’d be a fool to pass up on the money, but the only way it makes sense for the Kings to take him if he’s closer to the $4-5 million/year mark.
-Garrett Calcaterra
you're dreaming
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't happen until 3 years down the road.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or 2 years from now I mean.
Has to happen 3 years into the contract. By then, Hedo will have less incentive, not more, to renegotiate.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I had the same thought...
I thought in general rules of contract law that if both parties mutually agree to terminate an agreement, they can.
However, I don’t think that Hedo wants to take a pay cut to come here.
he wants to come here because our starting 3 spot (forseeably) would be his to lose, Jerry Reynolds comes up with fantastic names for him during games, and apparantly he likes the city and organization.
I agree with everyone else.
Toronto would have to get bent over like a prisoner for us to take Hedo back though….
You can't waive a trade kicker outright.
Unless, it is for salary matching purposes. But then, you are only minimizing the trade kicker not fully eliminating it though.
Rebuilding the Kings.
Here is what KF10 is talking about. Via the Coonmaster.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Why is Hedo Unhappy in Toronto??
Despite the positive assets that the Kings could get in a trade – DeRozan and #13. Should Hedo be no happier here than Toronto, that contract is going to be a rather huge albatross if Hedo brings little or nothing to the court.
Hedo doesn't like the way the organization and fans of Toronto have treated him.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
its nothing new...
Contract = expectations
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
You covered all the weak points of the scenario
Even if they take Noc and Cisco for DeRozan and the 13th pick, we would still lack cap flexibility.
Not true
We’d be slightly better off in the short term. Still have Max cap room.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Only a $100,000 or so difference though
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooops, (I'm PGing)
Plus the difference in the rookie hold between the #5 and the #13
which is substantial
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Its essentially a wash for the next two years
and you get DeRozen
(I’m not advocating this trade other than in the ‘devil’ sense though)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
That's what I'm seeing as well
Hedo’s contract wouldn’t start to hurt until 12-13. So, would the 13 and DeRozen be basically worth 2 years of crap Hedo contract?
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Depends on if Geoff has his eyes on someone in the #13 range, I say.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 8, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I say do the trade
Kings get- Hedo, Derozan, 13th pick
Raps get- Noc, Cisco
Draft: 5th- Demarcus Cousins, 13th-Avery Bradley(Warriors are lookin at Xavier Henry with the 6th)
Rotation:
Reke/Beno/Bradley
Derozan/Greene
Hedo/Casspi/Greene
JT/Landry/Greene
Cousins/Hawes
KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS
That remains a weak-ass front court
Cousins is going to be a bust, and we will continue to be punked trotting those fellows out.
The rest of the lineup frankly isn’t much to brag about, either, unless one of the guys is your kid.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Alright guys, I'm done with the Hedo talk for now
Gonna get ready and head off to ARCO in a bit to check out the big man workout. I’ll try to get a report up with film as soon as I can.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
I always wondered with the big men tryouts
Does it look a little like a freak show walking into a room with a bunch of guys who are almost 7 feet tall?
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 8, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
it's not exactly something you would see every day
Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 8, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll let you know
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
can you tell them you are Jimmy Kimmel
and get a STR exclusive interview?
Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings
Good points; I like that trade idea for Derozen and the first round, but there is no way that deal would happen…not for Garcia and Nocioni that is haha. What do you think about trying to get David Lee with all of that salary space that Petrie has been saving up?
5th pick....
I feel its going to be Greg Monroe or Demarcus Cousins, so no need to sign another big, if we could even interest one.
KINGS WILL BE 10-11 CHAMPIONS
So....
I know this is kind of a stupid question, and you’ll have to forgive me for my attempt to apply logic to something as emotionally charged as basketball, but here’s what I want to know:
If Toronto is unhappy with Hedo, they’re kind of stuck, because they have to pay out the terms of his contract. But since Hedo is unhappy in Toronto and wants very much to be traded, why would he not offer to re-negotiate his contract with Toronto to make it more palatable to other teams?
Hedo could always reject any offer he found unacceptable, because his original contract would be in effect until a new one is signed.
I’ve always found this somewhat puzzling— that players who are unhappy in a city or situation don’t take some of the responsibility on themselves to better the odds of being able to move.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 8, 2010 11:02 AM PDT reply actions
I don't remember Hedo has a no trade clause in his contract. Are you sure?
Rebuilding the Kings.
That's not what I said.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 8, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry. I only had 2 hrs of sleep.
Rebuilding the Kings.
If I had to guess
I’d say because he wants to have his cake and eat it too (keep big contract and get traded), which he’s more than likely to get away with.
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how can he get away with it while mistreating the raptors ?
the team will not easily give up assets to help him get away with that. athe team would probably buy out the 40 million left on the contract (30 million and the last year the contract is expiring so I don’t include that since there are teams that value that) before giving up 2 valuable rebuildign pieces.
what are toronto's choices here though?
buy him out and he still gets paid. Trade him, and he still gets paid. Keep him and he still gets paid, plus he metastasizes. He’s not going to renegotiate for a lower amount. He should suck it up and earn his pay. He’s put Toronto in an awkward spot, to say the least.
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Good point
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 8, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
$$$$$$
Greed over happiness
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I just don’t get that.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 8, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Its never been my MO either
Thats probably why I’ll never be wealthy
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Wealth is relative.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 8, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Low blow, bringing up relatives
my mother-in-law wa here the last two days.
Argh! She makes the stereotypes seem kind and gentle.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha!
The important question – does she read StR and does she know your screen name?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Sorry.
Didn’t realize it was such a painful subject.
SB and I really like each other’s families.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 9, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
if nocioni is the best player coming back, the team is rebuilding and would not entertain this trade
turkoglu still needs to prove that he’s worth that contract but more than a couple teams (the raptors included) probably wouldn’t mind switching one of theirs for his. both sides want the problem resolved (raptors do not mind playing turkoglu and paying him the contract as much as turkoglu wants out the raptors have the advantage).
he might be worth his contract in sacramento since he wants to play there.
whether or not the raptors are rebuilding they are not trading derozan or the pick. the only option that might get a trade done is sacramento exchanging what they consider to be bad contracts for turkoglu.
The thing is, we only have two bad contracts (plus Beno's is debatable)
and our bad contracts combined aren’t as bad as Hedo’s contract on it’s own. That’s why all the trade proposals here have Toronto sending assets with Hedo. So if Toronto is unwilling to send assets with Hedo, then I don’t see how a deal gets done with the Kings. It would have to be with a team that has bad contracts as bad as Hedo’s bad contract. That may very well end up being the case.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jun 8, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Lets put an end to this nonsense
You guys need to stop wasting your time talking about this. There is a 0% chance the Kings will get either the #13 pick or DeRozan- nevermind both! What have you guys been smokin’? Hedo is a big baby and a Prima Donna, but he is still a decent player. And the Raptors do not need to move him. He has asked to be traded, but that doesn’t mean he will be. Why would the Raptors do this guy the favor of trading him where HE wants to go? Who cares!?. What’s in it for the Raptors? Bad contract for bad contract is the only thing thats going to happen… or nothing at all. Put this one to bed because it is just ridiculous.
by Marcus Vujacic on Jun 8, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Like what you say matters?
I love it when new people sign on and start telling people posting here what to do. If you were a longer term member you would know that this is pretty silly (i.e. stupid). Much more stupid to do than post seemingly far-fetched trade scenarios.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Dude I hope that's not your real name
Actually I hope it is. Anyone who calls themself Vaginacic out of choice has some serious issues.
I might as well call myself benji liberace.
I love beating dead horses.
because trading Hedo before July 1 means....
that Toronto might be able to resign Bosh and bring in another quality FA to play with him?
As the person above me says....
You guys are completely stoned if you think the Raps would ever do a trade like this. There is no way they give you 13 or Dero, let alone both.
Living in a dream world people. Get your kings-goggles off and you’ll realize this is the most ridiculous and unlikely deal you could propose. Good thing none of you are GMs.
Nobody is suggesting Toronto would do this trade
Aykis acknowledges that it would be terrible for Toronto:
But I think its a bad idea, unless the Raptors make a horribly lopsided trade in Sacramento’s favor.
(Emphasis mine)
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jun 8, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let cisco be a role player and let noc expire
sign a good free agent or absorb a better player in a sign and trade, I wouldn’t do this trade until after david lee, joe johnson, and others sign with teams if at all.
Hope
by Ultrakingsfan on Jun 8, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So is it some kind of Canadian thing
To come onto another team’s blog and accuse the posters there of doing illegal drugs?
Weird. I always thought our northern neighbors were non-agressive, eh?
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 8, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
No
Just cause they are wimps militarily and in general doesn’t mean they can’t be crass, rude, asses.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
You be bitter too if you were from Canada.
The only thing you could brag about is hockey and Whistler.
Yawn.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
by PhutureKings on Jun 9, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I get you might love DeRozan and all. He has some potential.
Although he was seriously unimpressive in his rookie season on a team with no real starting 2 gaurd.
Sorry though, calling us stoned makes you look bad. Most of us here don’t even like Nocioni(even though he had just as good/bad a season as Hedo) & a lot of us don’t think too highly of Cisco(even though at this point in his career would run circles around DeRozan) but Hedo’s contract is easily a top 10 worst contract in the league. Probably even top 5.
Let’s see:
Gilbert Arenas 4 yrs/$80 mil, 22.6 pts/7.2 ast/ 36 min
Elton Brand 3 yrs/$51 mil, 13.1 pts/ 6.1 reb/ 30 min
Rashard Lewis 3 yrs /$67 mil 14.1 pts/ 4.4 reb/ 32 min
Baron Davis 3 yrs/$42 mil 15 pts/ 8 ast/ 32 min
Hedo 4 yrs/$44 mil 11 pts/ 4.6 reb/ 4.1 ast/ 30 min
These are my 5 worst contracts. Now let’s look at Noce & Garcia.
Andres Nocioni 2 yrs/ $13.5 mil 8.5 pts/ 3 reb/ in only 19 minutes
Francisco Garcia 3 yrs/$17.4 mil 8.1 pts/ 1.8 ast/ 2.6 reb in 23 minutes in 25 games coming off a serious(but not career threatening) injury
And for good measure DeMar DeRozan’s stats
8.6 pts/ 2.9 reb/ .07 ast (ouch) in 21 minutes.
Oh yeah his contract is 3 yrs/ $8.4 mil
Factor in the toughness & intensity Noce/Cisco bring to your SOFT ASS TEAM, the veteran leadership from Cisco your team seriously lacks, & the fact Hedo is a soft ass cry baby. I wouldn’t say this trade is as crazy as you see it. Maybe you are the ones with rose colored Raptors goggles.
I love beating dead horses.
Right.
Enjoy Hedo’s shitty attitude and his even shittier contract!
LOL
This page unintentionally left blank.
As a Blazer fan
If/when we win a title I will consider the decision NOT to sign Hedo as one of the most important parts of that quest.
I hope your organization isn’t that stupid.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
it wasn't your org's decision
Portland still wanted Hedo, he burned you guys for Toronto for more money. You got lucky, nothing else.
Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.
by sac_faithful on Jun 8, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt this trade will happen.
Hedo is over the hill with a gargantuan contract and everybody knew it last summer.
Derozan has a great deal of potential, but I don’t think his numbers look all that great. He finished the season being more productive off the bench than as a starter. Can he shoot?
Who knows what we’d end up with at #13.
This is a no for me.
Derozan was 4 of 16 from 3-point range.
To put that in perspective, I can think of at least three seasons (1999-2000, 2001-2002, 2004-2005) when Chris Webber was more productive for us from three-point territory.
This trade is a no for me, too.
Eddie Curry will be traded before Hedo is
Toronto’s sign and trade for Hedo is one of the worst recent signings I can remember. After Bosh leaves and they try and rebuild with David Lee or whoever they get the ineptitude of this trade will be magnified as the losses pile up next season. First Triano will get fired and then Colangelo and the Raps are still going to be among the worst teams in the Eastern conference. We can fantasize about any trades we want but Toronto is going to be stuck with the reality of Brother Hedo’s stinking mess of a contract for years.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
The problem with Toronto
is that even if Bosh leaves (which he likely will), they still have a ton of bad contracts. Calderon, Turkoglu, Bargnani – that’s more than half their cap space in 3 guys who are relatively mediocre.
Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".
Verdict: No Hedo.
To get the Kings to do take on Hedo’s contract, the Raptors will have to do at least what the Knicks did for the Rockets to take Jeffries, and a few handies on top of that.
One of the worst contracts in basketball is only getting worse.
Noc will be an expiring next year, and he’s probably as valuable as Hedo as a player, and certainly worth more as a trade chip. (Try to name some contracts you think are worse that Hedo’s. Off the top of my head I can think of :Arenas, and . . .
. . . . I’d rather take Brand over Hedo)
PS I love how that guy from RaptorsHQ created multiple accounts just to post here. Cute.
Well, there are only a couple of guys on that site in the first place soooo
I suppose they’re used to it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 8, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Something not being discussed about Demar Derozan
is how he would factor into the offense. While true he is very athletic, he is not a good shooter but a very strong and athletic player who drives to the hoop very well. Would we really want both of our backcourt players to be great at driving to the hoop but not that great shooters? I like Derozan and his ptoential, but I have a hard time picturing him playing well in the offense with the Kings. We need a player or two to play outside more to help with the spacing.
is it possible?
To get hedo, derozan, and the 13 for noc, cisco, and the 33. And then swap both of those to philly for their two or something? That would only be if you really wanted Turner or Favors than I guess and not good other wise because you lose so many picks…:(
by oakland9 on Jun 8, 2010 1:08 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
What do the Kings need
Post defense, shot blocking, low post scoring
Hedo is another wing player a position that the Kings have too many players at alread, he is a marginal defender with a big contract going into a lockout followed by major changes in way players get paid. I’d pass, not only that but this year there may well be a number of free agents who are looking to get paid and aren’t going to get paid, maybe the Kings might well end up with some players that fit needs the Kings have
this, to me...
… is the dealbreaker. He simply doesn’t address any of our most major needs.
by henryclemente on Jun 8, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Its tempting to get another lottery pick & or DeRozan..
DeRozan is a intriguing prospect, and it would be interesting to see who we could grab with the 13. That alone would make this trade interesting. However, while I like Hedo, I don’t see him coming in here and providing that much for us, plus his contract is gargantuan.
Overall, I think the Kings stand pat, and see if they can steal a good guard at 33.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
really Why not?
we werent gonna get a big free agent anyhow. Tukoglu has been in a slump and has a horrible contract, but his highs are too high to ignore. He is a small forward, and even though we need the center and pf positions, our small forward position was the least productive. the kings will likely draft cousins, so let’s just call this offseason a roll of the dice. After all the Maloofs own the Palms, let’s Gamble this yr! and get out of the lottery hole, and be the tm that we were 7-10 years ago, with 61 Wins!
Hedo does not = getting into the playoffs, dude.
Hedo = past his prime, overpaid, whiny, greedy, bad for the franchise (see spurning POR and subsequently bending over TOR and ass raping them), not a fit here, unnecessary and an impediment to growth for players who are actually a part of our future core.
That’s why.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
Its good either way
Id do it without Derozan with the 5th and 13th pick and take Monroe for Center and take Eric Bledsoe who played great next to John Wall and would be great with Reke
Here's my opinion on all this
Doesn’t this deal go against everything the Kings have been trying to do for the past 3 years. Rebuild. The Kings are nowhere near being contenders. They won’t get much better and if anything Turkulo will get in the way of development of Donte, Omri, and possibly Wesely Johnson. There is no need to do this deal. Honestly there isn’t. The Kings may not even be playoff contenders after this. And if Green and Casspi do become good players next year or the year after you have a 10 mil+ contract playing as a backup and taking minutes away from them.It would just be downright stupid of the Kings to do this. They have a good plan that will work and very soon they could be in the same class as the TrailBlazers and Thunder. They don’t need anymore aging and declining vets. I thought the Kings stopped doing that.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
by MJ5 on Jun 8, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
my sentiments as well MJ5
my version:
The Skiny for Toronto:
Hedo was a wonderful player. He signed a big contract on the premise he would perform and lead. He did neither. He now wants out.
For Sacto:
What type of team do you want to build? If you want to build a team that plays tough D, rebounds the ball and clogs the middle, and stays financially nimble for the CBA and future FA additions, the acquistion of Hedo makes no sense from any of those standpoints.
If you read up and down this post – this is as unaminous a vote of NO! I have seen on this site in some time.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 8, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Reked Aykis
spot on.
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
Not Sold
I think we are bagging on him more than we should, he is still a very effective player and can contribute and make teams better, the loss of some athleticism and speed deffinantly hurts, but he is a smart player and knows how to score and play the game of basketball.
But, I think we can get someone more dynamic than him for cheaper and have the same good affect on this team. I think he can still be a good player though.
I only take Hedo if he comes with a signed and traded Chris Bosh.
"Seriously guys, why are they pissed off? Because of the rape... are you sure? That doesn't add up." - Daniel Tosh on Kobe Bryant
by Ice_9ine on Jun 8, 2010 8:31 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
the Difference also with Hedo and Noci is that Hedo wants to be here in Sacramento and Noci does not. I have heard this thru Argentina and here. the Fact that Hedo wants to be here in Sacramento is a Plus to me , But Yea , I Agree. it has to be Noci and Garcia for Hedo and Derozan , the 13th Pick for this Deal to work , but i think our 33rd pick to toronto could seal the deal. Now if Sacramento can get away from not giving up the 33rd Pick , Even better. I really Like Derozan , Lots of upside and potential.
I mean we can get a good player with the 13th pick , and with Derozan.
I would pull the trigger on that deal. Noci does not want to be here anyhow.
I can see this:
The only way I see the Kings making this trade is if they are able to unload both of their worst contracts (Nocioni and Garcia), and pick up a youngster in Derozan as well as the 13th pick in this years NBA draft. Then it might all be worth it, as Nocioni and Garcia’s contracts are lumped into one bad contract as well as reducing our wing depth. Derozan and the 13th pick would be the sweetener for having to take his contract off of Toronto’s hands. Just Derozan or the 13th pick wouldn’t be enough in my opinion.
Otherwise I am just seeing visions of Kenny Thomas
(sorry for the lack of a period
I Spilled coffee on my keyboard this morning
I always wondered what would happen if I spilled a drink on it
now< i know> it totally f"s it up>
can anyone tell me if it will go back to normal when it dries up? i have another one in storage< but of course i don"t know where that is>)
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Just dry it out. Should work fine unless your use damaged the wiring.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
It finally dried out and seems to be working. There are just a few things which seemed a little bit tweaked.
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
-John Wooden
Sure.
You can actually wash your keyboard in the dishwasher, top rack, no dry cycle, and let it air dry for at least 24 hours.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 10, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I know its possible in other sports, but can......
a trade be done here where Toronto pays a portion of the salary owed to Hedo?
If Hedo is so serious about coming to Sacramento, can he waive the 15% salary increase? (Don’t think the Player’s Association would be thrilled with that)
Is a trade where we get Hedo (Toronto pays $20 mil of the contract) and a future 1st round (lottery protected) for Noc reasonable?
If trade is “allowable”, does the $20 mil count against Toronto’s or Sacramento’s salary cap?
Just some curious questions to see if this can be made more reasonable for both teams.
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