Jon Brockman and the Changing Specialist Needs
Jon Brockman was perfect for the Sacramento Kings in 2009-10. With Spencer Hawes (one of the worst rebounding 7-footers in the league) as the presumptive starting center and only Jason Thompson, Sean May and a cavalcade of long small forwards at the power forward position, Brockman served as the antidote to the team's rebounding woes. As one of the league's best offensive rebounders from Day 1, as well as a decent defensive rebounder, in Brockman the Kings had a glass specialist, someone they could plug in when the shots weren't falling in order to get a few extra chances. It helped win some games, and helped build Brockman reputation and personal brand. (The bad-ass nickname suggested by Aykis and run with by the Kings didn't hurt, either.)
The Kings don't need a rebounding specialist any longer. Brockman may still have been a better offensive rebounder than any current King -- he really might be the best in the NBA -- but what Brockman offered is no longer a "need" in Sacramento. DeMarcus Cousins can rebound the hell out of the ball on both ends. Samuel Dalembert is one of the three best rebounders in the NBA, on both sides of the court. Hawes is gone, and the Donte Greene/Omri Casspi experiments at power forward are likely over, so the only time the frontcourt will be lacking in rebounding at one of the two positions is in Carl Landry's minutes. If Dalembert or Cousins is at center (likely -- these are the team's two centers now, no matter whether Thompson is better suited there or not), the rebounding won't be an issue.
A rebounding specialist isn't needed here. But a few other types of specialists do make sense.
A perimeter defender. The Ime Udoka/Desmond Mason special. (Heck, toss in Dominic McGuire.) A player who can come in and shut down a hot opponent. The Kings don't have such a player; Francisco Garcia may be an alright defender, or perhaps even "good." But he'll be asked to handle much of the offensive duties while on the court. Greene may be the closest player Sacramento has to the perimeter defender specialist trope.
A shooter. Kyle Korver, Jason Kapono, Eddie House. A player who can come in and let it fly. Typically a shooting specialist because they suck on defense and have trouble driving the lane or passing.
Change-of-pace point guard. This was Sergio Rodriguez. The unfortunate thing is that Sergio actually played well in Sacramento last year; with Beno Udrih and Tyreke Evans, and the team apparently wanting to put a traditional shooting guard in the starting five with Evans eventually, there just wasn't a reason to hang on to Spanish Chocolate. With Evans, a bully, and Beno, a pick-and-roll gunner, soaking up minutes, there's room for a lightning quick point guard behind them. The problem? Few are available.
***
The Kings may not find any of those specialists on the market right now. But -- depending on what happens with Landry and Dalembert next summer -- it looks like those will be the needs going forward as the Kings transition from rebuilding team to potential playoff team. Brockman just didn't fit a need, and his "upside" wasn't so great you could justify keeping him around "just in case." The Kings would have been short-sighted to keep him in this environment.
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Couple things
1) Totally agreed about Nessie. A 6th big at 1.5 million dollars? No thanks. Never.
2) I’ve said for awhile that I thought the Kings would bring back Udoka because he can play defense and soak up those few minutes at the 2/3 defensively when Paul Westphal will ask him. Plus he’s a veteran and won’t complain if he doesn’t get many minutes. Udoka is still hanging onto his career and an opportunity here won’t hurt him long term.
3) Sam Amick talked about the issue with Sergio was multiple fold. One, he really didn’t improve over his time in Portland much. Two, he was brought in as a cheap 3rd PG option to help light a fire under Beno Udrih (which it did) and that pissed off Sergio. He wanted more of an opportunity. I never understood the Sergio love, but it’s not like the guy was in major demand in the NBA. There’s a reason he went back to Spain.
For whatever reason, a change of pace 3rd PG is nice. But those players want more minutes than they are likely to get and unless that player is like Udoka with his attitude, it’s not necessarily going to end well.
4) I wouldn’t mind if the Kings went after Jason Kapono. He even might be available depending on what the price is. It’s not like Kapono’s contract is beyond next year. I just wonder if the Sixers would deal him at this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sergio
My thing with Sergio is that he actually performed well in his limited minutes in Sacramento. He got caught up in a struggle for minutes behind Evans, Beno and (for a few weeks) Martin, and because Beno played so well losing Sergio in the Martin trade wasn’t a huge deal. But he played well, and it’s a shame that now — when we could probably use a fast PG — he’s back in Spain.
Sergio had that mysterious ability
To make his teammates play better, or at least seem to.
Statistics are often misleading, but I think it is somewhat telling that Sergio was one of the team’s best as far as adjusted plus/minus, showing how well he fit his role in the minutes he got, at the least.
For some reason they jumped the gun and got Sloan. I hope he can show is why this pre-season, because his Summer League sucked.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Jul 20, 2010 6:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The thing about Sergio was
unlike Beno or Tyreke who drive into the paint and look to score, Sergio would drive thru the paint looking to pass. Sergio on average created more assists to the bigs than Beno & Tyreke combined.
But, I believe Pookey is right, finding a quick PG willing to come in as the 3rd PG with limited minutes will be hard to find. Especially, one that can be affective and not turnover the ball. Maybe a vet playing in Europe who desperately wants to make it in the NBA and is willing to play his role for a couple of years waiting for his big chance.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I wish we had Sergio back.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Ain't feeling ya on Sergio.
Never will.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And Sergio didn't want to be here after the break either.
He was pushing for a trade.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Why do you think that was?
I think we were all confused with Westphal’s rotations for a while there.
Well according to Amick....
…it was because he wanted more time than PW wanted to give him and he didn’t like being used to motivate Beno.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'd imagine so
Looking at his game logs, I see lots of sequences where he’d get 15 to 20 minutes one game, 5 to 10 the next.
Again
According to Amick the main reason Sergio was brought in was to change the pace and light a fire under Beno. It worked so there was no real to keep Sergio by the trade deadline.
It’s not like Sergio would have stayed if he was unhappy. He would have been a restricted FA (at best) and could have ended up doing what he ended up doing: Going back to Spain.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not disagreeing with you on the Kings POV here
That doesn’t automatically make it the right decision though.
Don't disagree with me.
That’s what Amick said although I tend to agree with the Kings.
I see Sergio appealing to fans as “well if the Kings did this, this & that” kind of deal. It seems nice but in reality what Sergio did in bigger minutes NEVER impressed me. His defense was suspect, he didn’t always run the offense well or not turn over the ball.
I’m not a fan of a guy as a 3rd PG unless he’s an older, experienced vet who understands that he won’t get those minutes barring a major catastrophe. A young guy like Sergio will ALWAYS want more minutes than was ever available with Cisco and Beno around let alone Tyreke.
I think the franchise made a decision that is hard for fans to accept but is the right call. You can’t have 12 rotation players and really make it work. That’s too much talent and ego’s to try and get it work together. You need to have a few lemons on the end of the bench to optimally motivate your top tier talented players to play as hard as you can. Injuries are always a concern, but that’s true if you have 12 high end rotation players or 8. If you experience a high end rotation player injury, like Chris Webber, there isn’t an amount of players you’re going to be able to replace him with. That is unless you think Keon Clark, Scot Pollard and Hedo Turkoglu were all going to morph to become one super ugly dork.
My point is that seems like a good idea in theory is a bad idea in practice because it never works in reality. Players have egos and want more minutes. While you want players with that desire to play more, it’s also difficult to justify a small PG like Sergio with his strengths and weaknesses.
Simply put, the advantage of Sergio vs the disadvantage of Sergio is the issue. There was just a bigger disadvantage to keeping Sergio vs keeping him regardless of the perception. Why would Geoff Petrie trade him away if he was such a tremendous asset to the franchise?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Winning teams have depth
I am responding to your points on not being able to keep a lot of high end rotation players. If you want to win championships you figure out how to keep talent and rotate them in. I get what you are driving at, but at the same time teams that win championships are deep. The Kings need to figure out how to be a deep team. How to keep enough talent happy to win a championship.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
How deep were the Lakers last year? 2009?
How deep were the Celtics in 2008? How deep were the Spurs in 2007? The Heat in 2006? The Pistons in 2004?
There are varying answers to this. My point is that many of these teams only really played 8 guys consistently. If you have a player like Tyreke Evans, than the concept of a 3rd PG is more of an idea than a reality. If you’re going to play Evans 40 MPG in the backcourt, a 3rd PG is probably not going to play.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Are you saying I am wrong?
I’d be happy with 8 to 10 quality guys. We don’t have that, yet. We aren’t there, yet. We need depth. We need quality guys and some specialists as TZ has pointed out.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Yeah you're wrong.
At least about championship teams. Especially in relation to quality guys. That varies from person to person me thinks.
As far as the Kings, quality guys would depend on your definition. I think Cisco Beno & Tyreke are quality players in a NBA rotation. Not championship quality yet, but since the Kings might need to make the playoffs a few years in a row before ascending to that status, I’m not quite worried about it.
Sammy Dalembert, Carl Landry, Jason Thompson, DeMarcus Cousins. 4 more “quality” guys I’d take in most situations. Except maybe Orlando or LA. And, again, I don’t think i need to point out why.
Omri Casspi or Donte Greene may develop into another rotation guy. Even then the Kings have time since both guys are 22.
My point here is that I don’t think the Kings are that far away from 8 quality rotation players. And that’s assuming Whiteside or Casspi/Greene doesn’t pan out.
I think the Kings are pretty close to getting a quality rotation. Now it’s just about getting the players who are playing to grow together and improve as players.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
OK
So, championships don’t get won because of depth? They don’t get won because you have more quality players on your team than the other team. There must be some other reason why teams win championships then. Some other reason that you see teams spending too much money on too many players.
Why did the [redacted] win? Was it all just K@be and Pau or were there some other quality players involved that stepped up. Is it just a star and if so then why do we see two or three stars along with players like Rondo, Perkins, Davis, etc. I know you don’t like Rondo, but does his quality suck? Do specialists like Eddie House not have any role at all?
So, maybe it is just person to person and based on your preference and perspective on what wins games. I see there being a lot of things going into it. A lot of reason why Houston can take on LA and almost win the West without McGrady and Ming. It takes more than just depth, but I would say you cannot win a championship if you don’t have enough quality players. Then again, that is just me.
I can agree the Kings are getting there and will be there at some point. We ain’t there yet, but have nice talent to develop.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I remember
during the season, and in the playoffs, all the talk about the Lakers was how weak their bench was. Didn’t seem to hurt them too much.
Think of it this way MBS, take 2 teams whose top 10 players would score out like this on a scale of 1-100:
Tm1 Tm2
95 90
90 85
80 80
75 70
75 70
60 65
60 65
50 60
50 60
40 45
Which team do you think is going to win? If you just add up the numbers, team 2 has “more” talent, but team 1 will probably win more games, because their top end, 35-40 mpg talent is better, as well as their starting, 25-30 mpg talent.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
I wouldnt have called the L*kers this year a "deep" team...
outside of Odom and possibly S. Brown, no one on that bench would be mistaken for “high end rotation players”
My thing about Sergio is that I've always felt that he was brought in for financial reasons not basketball ones
Every time he played more than spot minutes his lack of defense became apparent. The Knick’s offense would have seemed to be a perfect fit for his game and even after playing ok in New York the main reason they were considering bringing him back had more to do with his cheap salary than it did with his game.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
It never crossed my mind before...
That is unless you think Keon Clark, Scot Pollard and Hedo Turkoglu were all going to morph to become one super ugly dork.
but that is one SUPER-ugly dork…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with Pook.
Sergio was a turnover MACHINE that couldn’t hit a jumpshot.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 20, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Sergio shot 47.6% last season.
Her averaged 1.5 turnovers a game with Sacramento.
I’m pretty sure we could live with a true point guard putting up these type of numbers.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jul 20, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
His assist to turnover ratio was better than Tyreke's
He’s definitely a high turnover guy, but he’s a super high assist guy as well. And, as you noted, his shooting had improved over the prior couple of seasons.
That’s the only thing that bugs me about the Sergio thing – he appeared to be a productive point guard the majority of the time he was called upon by the team. And he was only 23 when the team had him.
This common wisdom that Sergio was some kind of butterfingered, poor man’s J-Will doesn’t really jive with the reality.
I love facts
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Jul 20, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I just have certain bad games that stuck in my mind I guess.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 20, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I loved the guy, but when he made a turnover, it usually was a memorable one.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Steve Nash was 2nd in assists and 4th in turnovers
turnovers hurt especially stupid ones like traveling or setting illegal picks, but you can live with a PG missing the man on a long break away pass or overthrowing your man on an alley-oop.
It’s not always about the number but the type.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I would have to agree
The thing that often bothered me last year was that with Tyreke and Beno the offense would take longer and longer to get set up and moving. It just ground to a halt at points, but then they would plug Sergio in and the whole team came to life.
Instead of taking the maximum time to get the ball up the court it would up in a few seconds. People were running and moving. The uptempo game was the perfect counterpoint.
Keeping Sergio, because of this, would have been a plus.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I was sorry to see Sergio traded, but no crying about it now.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Jul 20, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely agree with Ziller on Sergio
There were some games when Sergio came in and completely sparked things to life, and I was never sure why he would fade in and out of the rotations (but then, that has been a perennial complaint of mine about Westphal).
It seems like Sergio was still chafing at being third string yet again, and that probably contributed to the Kings giving up on him so soon. But it would be nice to have a player like him – a quick point guard who would also hopefully be a better defender than Beno, which could give the team a spark.
Darren Collison seems like the perfect fit, though he wouldn’t come cheaply, if at all. Someone like him though.
These are good points
Add to that the fact that Sergio is only 24 years old. Looking at his ongoing improving statistics the last few seasons, you have to wonder why he hasn’t gotten a more complete look from a team.
me too...
I really like his D and he hit some big-time three’s in a couple of games…
Act like a sober human being, not a drunk Internet username. -- Brian Galliford
by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice write up TZ
You hit the nail on the head about Brockman. As much I would have loved for him to return, he became expendable. It’s unfortunate, as he embodied some of the things we lacked for so long, rebounding, hustle, rebounding, character, rebounding…
As for perimeter defender, shooter and pg, I have doubts that we will find those players either in summer league or training camp. I’m good with bringing Udoka back, but shooter and pg are two glaring weaknesses that may need to be filled by signing a mid-level type veteran player and we appear to be somewhat late to the party in that department. Many of the name players have already re-signed or moved on to new teams.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Have a great career, Jon
Wish you nothing but the best.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
loved you bRockMan...but
Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three Long two three
A few more specialists left off....
The Babysitter: Jack Haley may be the most famous babysitter of all time. This is the character guy who may not have a huge impact on the court personally, but does have a huge impact on the court vicariously. If SL showed us one thing it was DMC is talented and immature. He’s going to need that extra attention to make sure he stays on an upward path. Brockman was the perfect babysitter because not only does he lead by example off the court, he has the resume and skills to kick some butt on the court in practice when DMC isn’t hustling.
The PR Man: Old School PR man – Bobby Jackson. Not a new concept in the NBA but much more valuable in the age of social media. Fans want to be connected to players, they want to meet them, interact etc. JB was this guy for the kings. Sure you have access to many of the kings players via twitter etc. but as you can see by his sheer # of followers – Brockman was special. The guy oozes friendliness, character, and dare I say grace to the tune of 300K+ followers compared to other players that have less than 10K. Sure those folks aren’t all Kings fans – but ALL of them are getting updates on what the Kings are doing which continues to get the brand out there in the public eye.
by Madzillagd on Jul 20, 2010 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I like your points
but I think we still have those things on this team. There are still a lot of high-character guys that will be a good influence on DMC off the court, and Donté and now DMC seem to fill that “new-media savvy” role pretty well.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 20, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
i agree.
i do think we have some of those guys on the team – but i’d rather have those guys focus on the court and not have to focus on those apects. i’d rather have JT in the gym more hours than running around to every Carl’s Jr in town doing appearances.
First I would like to say Brock was a class act all the way
And GP was a class act for making the right call for the team, and then doing what he could to do the right thing for Brock. Last year I talked about adding some vets. I may have been a year premature. But I believe that the Ninja is the perfect example of what we need this year—vets with good attitudes that are happy to come in and do what they do for as much or as little time as they are needed. Especially if the price is right and their contracts are not too long.
I was and am a fan of May for that very reason. Don’t know that we need another big man now, but May didn’t complain about minutes. He was always cheer leading. He did what he was asked. And he a couple of key assets that PW knew how to use. Plus he was relatively cheap, and he was willing to sign a short-term deal.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
I am with you.
If the Kings brought back May and Udoka (or one or the other), I wouldn’t mind at all. Both are high character guys who won’t complain about minutes, but will act like professionals when they step on the court.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I agree with TZ on the team's three needs
but is that his order of need?
I’d put them at:
1. Change of pace
2. Perimeter defender
3. Shooter
My Reasoning is that I believe that extreme change of pace serves a team not only on offense but potentially on defense as well, it upsets the applecart, makes teams adjust to you.
More or less tied in my mind I give a slight edge to perimeter defender as it is quite possible that if healthy, we already enough (adequate) shooting in Cisco, Casspi and Greene.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
One more guy
Its akin to the PR guy, its called the professional, its a veteran player who knows the league, understands why practice is important, being punctual and listening to the coach, why you stay after practice, why you lift weights. Treating the media and the fans with respect. You help the younger guys about what being a pro is about and how to deal with bumps in the road and to avoid all kinds of troubles of on the court and off
With the loss of what would have been the Kings 6th Big, Jon Brockman
does the possibilitiy of a trade for a Courtney Lee become much less likely?
The Nyets are looking for another frontcourt player – JT or Carl Landry come to mind on the Kings – and now the Kings cannot afford to lose either one (with rookies DMC and Hassan Whiteside filling two of the spots and SammyD not a tradeable opton with his $13M deal).
The value of both JT and Landry may be higher for the Kings in any case. Landry is the Kings 3rd best player and a very reliable and consistent performer. JT is now in his 3rd year and primed to perform more as a veteran with more control and a better head for the game. Removing either from the roster would be a gamble, but you need to give something up to gain something and the loss of Jon Brockman limits the expendability, however unlikley, of either of those two frontcourt players.
D league for the Change of Pace PG/Combo Guard
In reading some comments and enjoying the volleys between PG and Everyone else I have thought long and hard about a our guard rotation, and barring an impact trade I feel we need to look to the D league to find someone, there have been many players that have bounced around in the D-League, CBA and Europe that come in and be very successful role players and make some impact a few years into their career. Guys like Mario Elie, Eddie House, Bruce Bowen, Parrgo, Arroyo, Calderon, Axabuike, Morrow.
I recognize that there is a reason they are in the d-league, but it cannot hurt to try and see what we can get as I am not super keen on bringing in another true rookie with our young team. At least a d-leauger might not be disruptive and might be game ready and will be cheap.
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
PG wasn't a strong position in this years draft
so I never thought that there would be a lot of undrafted PG’s from which the Kings could choose. But, as the 3rd PG, that player wasn’t going to get a lot of PT anyways baring injury, so there was always the opportunity to pick up a project PG and allow him to develop.
I think there are options in Europe. Players who would gladly join a NBA team even knowing that they weren’t going to get major minutes. Players with experience who wouldn’t be spectacular but also wouldn’t make a lot of mistakes when there number was called.
I think the SG is the position where you need to pick up real NBA talent, and be willing to pay the price for it. Not necessarily trade a player for them, because I don’t think we’ve added enough talent yet. But, give up a future draft choice if need be. I think that GP is really looking to use his cap space to pick up talent by faciliating a trade between 2 teams over the salary cap. And, if that’s the case, he’s probably willing to take his time. Baring injury we have enough talent to have a 3 guard rotation. So, right now the only problem we have going into the regular season, is that we don’t have the required 13 players on our roster that the CBA demands.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Good Points HT..question though
I think you may be right regarding a strategy of using draft choices and salary space to pick up a quality 2, then we would have a versatile 4 guard rotation with Beno playing more PG and we could find/devlop that third PG.
Now who do you speculate that guard would be?
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
We need a...
deadly spot up shooter, probably two (or at least another one who forces the defense to react like he is) so badly. I’m not truly up on who is available, but even if the Maloof’s want to get by with the least amount of payroll possible they still have enough to spend to add a guy like this to the squad. While it seems funny to be sweating out players who are likely at 7-8-9 on the depth chart when you team as won 42 games in two years… it seems like we much closer to rising up than a 25 win season would indicate.

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