The Asinine Offseason Thread IV - A New Hope
by vfettke on Jul 22, 2010 12:09 PM PDT
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PrintIt seems that asinine threads are popping up with the writers just hoping for boob pictures. Apparently I have created a giant big chested monster. For that I apologize.
But, no time to dwell. We need to get back to the task at hand: coming up with random offseason moves for our beloved Kings. So far this summer we've said hello to new friends Samuel Dalembert, DeMarcus Cousins, and Hassan Whiteside. We've also said goodbye to the much beloved, yet highly feared connoisseur of pancakes, Jon Brockman. So it's time for you to come up with your own ideas for the team.
Earlier this week Ziller said "The world is not your trade machine." Obviously, some of us disagree. Use this thread to tell Ziller to suck it!
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Darko for Cousins. If Khan thinks Darko is that good than he must be.
by oakland9 on Jul 22, 2010 12:20 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I have a request. I am a noobe to the Asinine Trade Threads.
I would really like to get my feet wet, but am intimidated. I would like someone to either post some instructions in a comment or write a Fanpost on doing the trades. It would be helpful to have someone walk through a couple of examples – and easy one and a more complicated one. It would be very helpful to have it be a how-to, along with some rationale behind it.
Thanks.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
an easy one^
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
There are no rules for the ATT -
It’s frontier posting!
But if I could wave a magic wand, I would suggest that folks that suggest trades do the following:
1 – Make sure that it works for the involved teams from a cap standpoint.
2 – Review the trade from all angles. That is, make sure that the trade makes some sense for all involved teams.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Or, step #2
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Okay.
The trade machine says that we can trade Beno for Carmelo Anthony. I assume Denver is over their salary cap. Obviously, this is not an equal trade so far as players, but the Denver Nuggets do get to reduce their salary. Hooray, I did an asinine trade.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
lol
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 22, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree. Why would you trade Beno for Anthony when we could trade Darnell for Anthony straight up?
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I stand corrected. Your trade is far more asinine than mine.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Corrected the link.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Maybe she likes magic that puts her to sleep.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 24, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't be intimidated
And you don’t need to have a rational trade. It’s the “asinine” trade thread, fer goshsakes! Here, I’ll give you an example:
Outgoing:
Francisco Garcia
Incoming:
Derrick Rose
Now, you can go the distance and use the ESPN trade machine. Just add your teams, and include the players you want, and click the trade button. It will tell you if the trade will work or not.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
For instance:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dh3rxk
Go crazy!
Here goes...
Well, as you already know, the trade machine says the trade was successful; however, the Hollinger Analysis says the Bulls will lose 7 games with the trade. Does that mean that the trade doesn’t make any sense?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
In this case yes, because Rose was a #1 pick
but sometimes there are other consideration like lux tax relief, filling a void in a roster, or the players contract is expiring and isn’t expected to resign with his present team. Most trade won’t be even as far as the quality of the players involved is concerned, so the number of wins will hardly ever be equal.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Okay. So, just because the trade machine says it is successful, doesn't mean it will make any sense.
Does the trade machine take into consideration the other factors you are mentioning, like the lux tax relief, or is that something you have to know, in addition as to whether the trade machine shows it is successful?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Bingo!
Okay. So, just because the trade machine says it is successful, doesn’t mean it will make any sense.
Unfortunately Slam_Dunk, not everyone gets that.
Wait so the NBA GM's dont log onto the trade machine and input their motivations, desires, personal biases, etc??
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly
this thread is for whatever you want it to be in regards to offseason moves such as trades and free agent signings. They can be over the top and ridiculous, like Donte and Landry for Chris Paul (asinine), legitimate ideas that you have that might actually be reasonable, or you can post rumors you heard about. Liestothegirls created these threads during last season (I think) to put all of these posts into one place rather than having a different FanPost for each idea (see: Kings160). I blatantly stole the idea from LTTG for the offseason – with his blessing of course.
#vfettkefordraft
I think it was a really good idea to post these ideas in one place. I've skimmed through them, but rarely made a comment.
It looks like a lot of fun, as well as a good way to become familiar with the teams.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Vfettke doesn't link the
‘Trade Machine’ as I used to
sloppy sloppy sloppy
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 23, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
He probably assumes most people have it bookmarked.
There is a convenience to have the link, though. Maybe he will take your hint, lttg.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
It's my home page, I would hope everyone has it bookmarked.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This one's EASY - Facilitate Paul to Houston!
Kings give:
14.2 Million TPE
Omri Casspi 2nd round pick(Bulls via Bucks via Brockness monster-you HAVE to include his mention here)
Kings receive:
Peja Stojakovic
Aaron Brooks
Houston trades:
Ariza
Brooks
Jefferies
Hill
Knicks 1st round pick
Own 1st roundpick
Houston Receives:
Chris Paul
James Poset
Julian Wright
New Orleans deals:
Chris Paul
James Posey
Julian Wright
New receives:
Casspi
Ariza
Jefferies
Hill
2 first rounders(NY and Houston)
1 second rounder(Bulls via Bucks via Brockness Monster-you HAVE to include his mention here)
Kings new roster after we sign Chism and R. Thompson and release Jackson
C: Dalembert, Cousins
PF: Landry, J. Thompson, Chism
SF: Peja, Greene
SG: Evans, Garcia, Thompson
PG: Brooks, Beno, Sloan(or Rice instead?)
Brooks gives us a great ball-handler and 3 deep bomber next to ’Reke. Peja helps spread the floor and gives us an expiring to deal with at the deadline.
TPE goes to NOH
Saving them nearly 15 million instantly, maybe even making them solvent for a change.
This is an EASY one?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Apparently.
But, I’d rather have cap space than Peja. Even if we do absolutely nothing with said cap space.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if Peja would fit our rebuild
He represents the, er, “softer” echelon of NBA players and has a proven history of choking when it really matters (it hasn’t got any better in NO). His veteran status would be good for our young guys, but at the same time he’s never really been a vocal leader, either.
I think that given time, Omri could be our updated version of him, albeit less of a pure shooter but more of a hard nosed defender.
by Signora Omicidi on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe the intent was to add Brooks to the Kings, Peja is an expiring contract
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yeah Brooks fits. Peja is just a means to an end.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
You really think this is about Peja?
Really? There’s this guy named Aaron Brooks. He’s pretty much the perfect GUARD next to ’Reke in the backcourt.
Peja’s just the price it would cost to land Brooks. Since we need shooters and he’s expiring(thus value at the deadline) this is pretty much a no-brainer. We trade Casspi for Brooks. Peja, Greene and Garcia can man the minutes at the 3. Brooks is a much better player at a more important position than Casspi IMO.
Getting smarmy with me doesn't change...
…the fact that your fucking Tolstoy-length trade idea post had nothing written about the trade being about Brooks. For what it’s worth, I’d love to land hime, but the truth is that far too many Kings fans still long for Peja to come back, and I made the mistake of thinking that you were one of them. Yes, really. Really.
by Signora Omicidi on Jul 22, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If you'd read the post it clearly says that the Kings get Brooks
And then he says:
Brooks gives us a great ball-handler and 3 deep bomber next to ’Reke. Peja helps spread the floor and gives us an expiring to deal with at the deadline
#vfettkefordraft
Can't stand the heat..then don't comment
So, yeah I’ll call you out when you make a dumb comment. It happens to everyone, everyday. The difference is whether you get butt-hurt about it like you did. Get over yourself, and try reading the post and formulating a response worth reading.
no
now you are letting the emotion of the moment take away from what really matters… hating the L@kers
Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings
by morecasspi on Jul 24, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta agree with morecasspi here
pissing on the Lakers is a much more important task, than fellow Kings fan noobies. Let’s get our priorities straight now. It’s a full-time job pissing on the Lakers.
Butthurt, no? Amused, yes.
Why? Because it’s nearly impossible for me to take someone seriously when they use, in a non-joking manner, the “Calvin pissing on_______” logo. Who’s next, Smills? Ex-Wife? Osama Bin Laden? Chevy?
When you decide to represent your fandom in a way other than rednecks and white trash, I’ll gladly admit that I wrote something dumb. Until then, make sure that you don’t scrape your knees climbing into your oversized pickup. What a fucking joke.
by Signora Omicidi on Jul 27, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't argue the issue...
…so you resort to deflection away from that issue.
Nice attempt though. But that says more about your ability to defend your comments, than anything about an avatar that I choose to display.
Using his logic
You should change your avatar to a Kings logo and then post the most ridiculously idiotic shit possible because then it’d be way more valid.
#vfettkefordraft
Even if he didn't spell it out
any mild to serious NBA fan knows Aaron Brooks is the far more valuable player than Peja at this point of their respective careers. Brooks is a damn good player entering his peak years, and the speedy PG/SG we don’t have. Peja is trying to remain productive in the twilight of his career and offer meaningful back-up minutes at best.
The problem with the trade is that if the Kings have to pick up Peja's contract, they shouldn't have to give up Omri.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Valid argument.
I’m one that believes Brooks could be a top 10-12 PG in the league, maybe that’s worth Casspi or not, I dunno. I just felt I would still do that deal if that was the price. Maybe Houston and NOH send 3 million each to Sacramento to off-set a bunch of Peja’s salary this year, making it roughly 8 million instead of 14 million.
I don't know that money is the main issue
we start out with 2 PG’s & 2 SF’s and end up with 3 PG’s and 2 SF’s. The only way that really works out for us is if Evans moves to SG. Which I’m not sure whether the FO is ready to concede that move Yet
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
If Peja is one of your SF's...
Then you really only have one SF.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Tomato vs. Tomahto
Evans is a PG or NaPG, Brooks is a PG or NaPG, Beno is a PG or NaPG. I think adding Brooks to the backcourt allows more minutes to go to Cisco at the 3 in all honesty. Brooks, Evans and Beno can see the bulk of the minutes in the backcourt with CIsco splitting time between the 2 and the 3.
I think we’re pidgeon-holing players into positions, rather than roles here. Adding Brooks COMPLEMENTS Evans.
An Arborist and a Lumberjack both work with wood but they're not the same
Whether people want to admit it or not Point Guard and Shooting Guard have specific skills and duties that define the positions. The use of PG or SG define skill sets that are needed at those defined positions. So both players are guards, but their physical make up and skill sets define where they can and can’t play.
Cisco has the skills and size to play SF, so do we call him a Forward. No, because he can’t play the PF. Could we trade Omri & Donte just because we have plenty of other Forwards on the team? Using specific names to identify a players role in the offense and defense, isn’t pidgeon-holing. It a short cut for communicating a players role.
If the FO want’s the offense to be run by Tyreke, what would you want them to can him, the NaPG who brings the ball up anyways and directs the flow of the offense? When they set up the defensive scheme do they say that the NaPG or the Na1, picks up the other teams player who’s has the ball as he crosses over the mid court line?
Tyreke is the PG if he is going to initiate the offense. And, if he’s the PG for 36mpg like he did last year, then if Brooks in on the court with him, Brooks will be the NaPG. Nobody in Houston is calling Brooks a NaPG. If Brooks is on the court, he’s going to be the PG, and if Evans is in the backcourt with him you can call him a SG, a NaPG or a Tree for all I care, but the offense will not be running thru Tyreke. And, that’s the decision that the FO needs to make.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Well said
but I think Reke really only played PG about 20 minutes a game, Beno did it the rest of the time.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 23, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Not exactly
Here’s what I got from watching the duo. Neither was a true PG or true SG. They both scored and distributed. As a combo they combined to be one true PG and one true SG. That’s why it worked so well. Beno and Tyreke are incredibly similar in their most basic styles of play. They both score really well and distribute the ball pretty well. Put them together and its a really good back court. Aaron Brooks, in my eyes, is a better Beno. He shoots a little better from deep and is super fast. Overall he’s a slightly better player who is also younger than Beno and probably hasn’t reached his potential, while Beno has. Putting him next to Tyreke would work and it’d work well. Not sure about the defense, but I’m not too worried about it either.
#vfettkefordraft
by vfettke on Jul 23, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think you can ignore the defensive side of the game.
Beno and Tyreke worked because they each scored well, and could switch defensive roles. Create a 3 man guard rotation of Brooks, Beno, & Evans, and who guards the SG when Brooks and Beno are on the floor.
Also, from a playmaking stand point, we saw too much iso from the Kings. Beno & Evans don’t make other players better. They rank 32nd and 30th respectively, in assists per 48 minutes. And, Brooks is ranked 34th in that catagory.
Adding Brooks without moving Beno, takes the ball out of Tyreke’s hand. And, he hasn’t shown the off the ball type of outside shooting needed to make him as successful as he is with the ball. If Tyreke could shoot the ball away from the basket as well as Beno or Brooks, I wouldn’t have any objection at all. But, then Reke would actually be the SG.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
But you're ignoring them as a combination
which is really important to my original point. By themselves the ranked lower in assists per 48 minutes. What are their combined rankings versus other backcourts that played a lot of time together? Neither one of them has that true point guard mentality where they make others better, a la Nash or Paul. But, when they played together it worked.
#vfettkefordraft
With the assists, was it because they weren’t passing, or because people weren’t making their shots. i know a lot JT would get a pass from Beno that he should have just shot up, but decided to dribble out instead
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
The lack of assists is more related to the type
a player like Nash averages 6 apg inside 10 ft. he’s setting up his teammates for easy baskets at the rim. If there is one place on the court where a pass can be intercepted or fumbled, it’s in the crowded paint area.
What makes a high assist pg is that he feed his teammates at the rim where the average bigs shoots between 55-70%. Most of the assists by Beno & Tyreke, are kickout for long 2’s and 3’s, where the Kings shot between 30-40%. So, they get almost half as many assists as a PG that sets up his teammates in the paint.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Again, it might work but it isn't the best option
and it works because Tyreke can play the SG on defense. That wouldn’t be the case with Brooks and Beno in the backcourt together.
There has been enough discussion, about Tyreke having a hugh advantage when the opposing PG is forced to defend him. But, that won’t work with Brooks who is 6-0. We end up with the same problem where teams put their best defender on Evans, and move their PG over to defend Beno, or Brooks if we had him.
Something new needs to be added to the equation. Having Brooks & Beno forces Evans into the SG spot defensively and offensively allows the opponent to cross match defensively.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Tyreke can handle being guarded by their best defender.
And even if we had a 7ft PG, as long as Tyreke is our best player, he’ll be guarded by their best defender. I’m starting to come around to just trying to get the BBCPA (Best Back-Court Player Available) to pair with him. I don’t care how tall or what mismatches we can create. I just want a baller.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 25, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Tyreke's days of abusing opposing PG is over.
People know this guy know. They’ll put their best player on him from here on out.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 25, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Totally agree with you on this vfettke
You articulated what I was trying to say. Together, we have two great guards that complement each other. pidgeon-holing them into positions is stupid and pointless. Let’s figure out roles and win basketball games.
Beno is not a great guard
But he’s solidly in the middle of the pack.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
The problem is
Those guys, while starters, were role players. We’re counting on Beno to start, play 30-plus minutes and be our third leading scorer. Which is one reason why we’re not very good, because on a better team he’d have a role more in line with the guys you mentioned.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jul 26, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you're saying
I just slightly disagree. We’re still rebuilding and Beno is/should be a 4th-6th rated option on any team. I see it right now going forward as Reke #1, Cousins #2, Landry #3 and Beno #4. Offensively that’s how we should role. Greene, Casspi and Garcia should round out our next best offensive options. Dalembert and Thompson should be next after them. But having Beno as your 4th option should at LEAST equate to the playoffs. If we can somehow consolidate our talent into another player that could make a better 2nd or 3rd option I think we’d have the trifecta necessary to compete for a ‘ship in the next 3-5 years. Until that time comes, we’ll have to make do with what we have, grow together, gain experience and become a better overall basketball team.
I think you are overrating Cousins
At least at the beginning of the season. As an offensive threat I’d rate his skills towards the bottom of the Tyreke-Landry-Beno-JT-Francisco-Casspi-Donte-Cousins group.
No doubt, though, the team will give him more opportunities early on to be a higher usage player. We’ll see how that works out. For now we’ll just pencil him in as an unknown quantity.
Re: Beno, he might be the sixth-best offensive option on a top-flight club, but I really can’t see a team with him as its third or fourth best scorer going anywhere.
I agree we need to add at least two top-flight players that are close in ability to Tyreke or better to become a contender. Right now I see our five best players overall as Tyreke, Landry, Dalembert, Beno and JT. If you turn that into Tyreke, Star 2, Star 3, Landry, Dalembert, Beno, JT and the rest, I think you have something worth talking about.
Maybe Cousins and Casspi or Donte will turn into those stars, or maybe they will come from future moves. I guess we’ll see.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
"I see the team right now, GOING FORWARD"
Meaning, while Cousins may not be the #2 option as a rookie, HE WILL BE going forward. I think Cousins will be either the ROY or runner-up to ROY. And going forward I view him as a top 3-4 cneter in the NBA. He’ll definitely be our #2 option after Reke IMO.
He's got a long way to go
to fulfill that optimism, particularly on defense.
And going forward I view him as a top 3-4 center in the NBA. He’ll definitely be our #2 option after Reke IMO.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
We haven't been talking defense
We’ve been talking about offensive option. But I do agree, they’re be a learning curve involved. I still think he realizes the majority of his potential.
No doubt
If he comes even close to your vision for him in a Kings uniform, we’ll have made out very well.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Scoring doesn't necessarily equate to making the playoffs
Of the 10 highest scoring teams last season only 5 made it to the playoffs. The Finalist were LAL 13th and Bos 19th in scoring, and the Kings were 18th.
The 5th highest scoring team last season was Tor and the 5th highest scorer on that team was Calderon at 10.3ppg and 6th was DeRozan at 8.6ppg. On the lakers Odom was 5th at 10.8ppg and Brown was 6th at 8.1ppg. On Boston Perkins was 5th at 10.1 and Wallace was 6th at 8.1ppg.
Sac if you eliminate Martin, had Casspi at 5th at 10.3ppg and Hawes at 10.0ppg. So, the Kings 5th & 6th placed scorers are already better than the players that both the Lakers and Celtics have. If you eliminate Hawes and Noc who was 7th, our 8th best scorer was Donte at 8.5 would put us 0.1 ppg behind LA and 0.3 ppg behind Boston.
The Boston starting 5 averaged 72.7ppg and LA averaged 82.1 ppg while the Kings were 73.5ppg. So, we already have enough scoring but until we learn to play Team Defense, forget about the playoffs.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Those teams do have go-to scorers, though
We have one emerging go-to guy; Boston and LA have 2-3 established stars and a solid support cast.
And, yes, they bring it on defense, which is not the strong suit of either Beno or Cousins. Fine as support staff, they are not main man material and we are going nowhere fast until we can find better options on both ends of the floor.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
If the Kings picked up Brooks
Tyreke would still be the primary ballhandler. It would work similar to the way it works now with Beno. Brooks would play off guard while bringing the ball up on some posessions and play the point when Tyreke was not in the game.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
If the Kings picked up Brooks,
we’d rule.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, you are a wizard.
Every trade you come up with makes some degree of sense for each team involved. Keep posting your ideas.
What if we then sent Brooks to Phoenix for Goran?
Think the Suns bite?
Although Beno might pout if he has to compete for the starting spot with Dragic
#vfettkefordraft
Lol
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think I'd rather have Brooks than Dragic.
Although Dragic would probably be a lot better defensively.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Suck it Ziller
/Please don’t ban me.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
by 49er16 on Jul 22, 2010 1:02 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Be sure to rec this
So it stays up on the rec list for a while.
by otis29 on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
trying to rec this green so people will read it
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 22, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone needs to Donte it.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I'll allow it!
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
it might be something you say to your son to scare him. “If you keep rec’ing it it’ll stay up forever and eventually turn green”
#vfettkefordraft
by vfettke on Jul 22, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
...But it will stay up forever?
Right?
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29c2aey
when they can actually trade Dalembert and Kings include next year’s first rounder
You can't link in the subject line.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 22, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Waive Darnell Jackson
Then sign Darnell Jackson with the remainder of the teams’ almost $17 million in cap space.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Darnell "The Lucky Juice Man" Jackson
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jul 22, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I bet after the 2nd waiving David Kahn offers him $5 million a year
so he’d only cost $12 mil of our cap
#vfettkefordraft
Well, it just takes the right team to believe in you.
If D-Jax went to MIN, he would make the all-star team…along with Darko.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
David Kahn isn't running the Kings
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
I like it.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Horrible Trade
New Orleans gets Darnell “The Lucky Juice Man” Jackson?
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Not to mention, having Durant would hurt us when we try to resign D-Jax after we waive him.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to admit
The NBA Trade Machine is addictive/helpful. If you don’t know how the NBA salary cap works or how a trade is made in the NBA the Trade Machine can help figuring out how it all works. Once you have it figured out, you’re addicted.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
How about the Kings send all prospective free agents to play in college for one semester
That way, Petrie will be able to REALLY evaluate their talents before signing them.
Jason Thompson for Jonny Flynn
Pretty clear that Jonny Flynn is not the PG long term in Minnesota with Rubio coming over and Luke Ridnour signed, and despite having the World’s Best Passer at center, they still need help inside. JT might be the odd man out in the big rotation, where Landry, Dalembert and Cousins are probably going to get most of the minutes.
Seems like the FO really liked Flynn. He had a pretty underwhelming rookie season, but at worst he could be a very decent backup, with the potential to be a good complement to Reke in the starting lineup.
This is a very interesting idea
My only concern would be that we’re putting all of our eggs in the "Landry is re-signing’ next year
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Yeah maybe trade Landry for Flynn and Lazar or Ellington.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 22, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, you and I are ready for Tyreke to move to SG, but is the FO?
And, what happens, IF (please don’t do the thing where we can’t look at if’s) we can’t resign Dalembert or Landry? I’d feel better about trading JT if we signed SD to an extention before he became a UFA. At least we’d have one of them returning. We finally go a solid frontcourt, but with this trade we could end up with only the two new rookies at the end of the season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I don't think it's so much about moving Reke to SG
as it is finding a good complement to his game in the backcourt. If Eric Gordon was available for example, I’d love to make that move and keep Reke at PG. I think the last piece in the backcourt just needs to work well with Tyreke, and skill should be looked at before position.
And I’m with you, with the concerns about not being able to resign those two guys. Like Casey points out, maybe Landry for Flynn may work better, but I haven’t thought about it enough.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
No way
I think we’d be willing to offer Landry $10 million/ year contract at end of next season. He is a cornerstone guy. Not my opinion, just go back to what PW and Petrie said about him last year, and our willingness to trade our best scorer to acquire him. We don’t turn around and trade Landry for a lesser version of Kevin Martin (Flynn). Makes no sense.
I think a lot of fans underestimate Landry because he is not a monster rebounder. He doesn’t always get the board, but he boxes out his man to allow a teammate get it. Cousins and Sammy D will appreciate that next season.
Adding Flynn would not supplant Tyreke either. Tyreke is our PG. Tyreke can play 10 minutes at SG, and 10 minutes of rest, which would give a player like Flynn opportunity at PG position.
Kahn had no problem justifying Darko's signing.
What would you expect the KIngs to say, "We really hated Martin’s defense, so we traded him for Landry because he was the only player that anyone offered us for Martin’?
Assuming we have as good a chance of resigning Landry as any other team, will the Kings front office bid high enough. Right now they just don’t seem interesting in handing out any hugh contracts. So, under the new CBA, will they be willing to exceed an offer of 5 yrs & $45-50M? I don’t know.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I just don't see Landry being worth 10 million a year
Not to the Kings, at least.
by MichaelMack on Jul 23, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Scola just signed a 5 year $47 million contract
I would think Scola is about in the same range as Landry
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 23, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Question
What if I told you JT and Scola were close to the same player..Let me show you using per36
JT / Scola Per 36
FG%: 48.4 / 51.9
FT%: 70.3 / 73.8
RBD: 9.6 / 9.8
ASS: 1.7 / 2.0
TOV: 2.2 / 2.0
STL: 0.7 / 1.0
BLK: 1.0 / 0.3
PFS: 4.6 / 3.7
PGS: 14.3 / 16.1
But wait there’s more: Adv Stats
JT / Scola Adv Stats
TS%: .529 / .556
eFG: .484 / .520
TRB: 15.4/ 15.6
ASS: 7.5 / 9.6
STL: 1.0 / 1.4
BLK: 2.1 / 0.6
TOV: 14 / 11.9
USG: 19.4 / 20.7
Ortg: 106 / 111
Drtg: 111 / 104
Am i saying they are exactly the same player..Hell no, but they are so close in everything , that is until you get to win shares because look at the amounts of wins. If they are this close on most of these levels, And yet Landry is so far ahead of JT, Why would Landry only make what Scola makes. Don’t you think JT could have way better stats on a better team, I think so.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
I'm not surprised. JT is good.
This year will open a lot of eyes.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 24, 2010 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Isn't that the point, and reason enough not to trade JT until Landry is resigned
Landry is worth $6-8M easy, but based on some the recent FA signings, it’s not beyond the realm of posibility that another team could offer him more. So, we finally have a solid group of bigs. So good, that we decide to trade JT for Flynn a PG when we already have 2 PG’s. The season ends and we lose Dalembert & Landry to free agency because we get out bid. Now, we’re down to two 1st year bigs (Cousins & Whiteside), but at least we have a good supply of PG’s.
Hell, we just turned into the Twolfs.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
hah!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 23, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
This is why we trade Landry if anyone.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No this is why you don't trade any big this season unless SD signs an extention
Then you can trade JT or Landry for a great piece to complete the starting lineup. But, then while Tyreke is developing his outside shot and Cousins is developing experience playing against NBA caliber bigs, we don’t need that final piece.
So, we mite as well, wait until we know which of the two we can resign for next season, and then use our saved cap space and extra talent to trade for the final piece when everyone is able to contribute.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Tyreke is a PG offensively
and a SG defensively. You need to pair him with a shooter in any case. If the guy is also quick enough to cover point guards, that’s a big plus. That’s where both Beno and Tyreke take it in the shorts currently.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Are you that impressed with Flynn?
Because I’m not. He doesn’t shoot well, and last year he wasn’t exactly an assist machine or a capable ballhandler. That said, is his play last year a bi-product of Rambis’ “offensive philosophy?”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Given that we liked him going into the draft last year
it could be a shrewed move to buy low. Then again, our interest could have been a… (wait for it…) smokescreen!
That said, I agree with edm7 that we’d be setting ourselves up to overpay Landry next summer, and there’s an argument that could be made that JT is a better long term fit with Cousins.
Flynn sucks.
No way I would trade JT, a young, promising big man for a mediocre at best guard. That violates every rule of a sensible trade there is.
Who cares if “we” liked Flynn going into the draft? At one point in time “we” liked Douby going into the draft.
A lot of people (as in, waaayy too many people) are very eager to trade JT away. After this season, his third, we’ll review this idea. I expect BIG THINGS from JT this year.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." -- MarcusC.
by PhutureKings on Jul 22, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you may be disappointed
I expect BIG THINGS from JT this year.
I hope you are right, but JT regressed last year. Instead of improvement, we saw plateauing and the same mistakes repeated: fouls, unforced turnovers, and zero low post ability. He finished the year relatively strong only because teams gave him little respect and games were meaningless. Now instead of being gifted the starting PF position, he will have to earn meaningful back up minutes.
Not sure how all that translates into heightened expectations.
Everyone’s got to harsh on JT and I don’t understand it. He’s in his second year of the league and , I hate to tell you no but he only regressed in a couple of categories. This is taken from HERE
Games : 82 / 75
GS: 56 / 58
Minutes: 2303 / 2357
FG%: .497 / .472
FT%: .692 / .715
ORB: 234 / 224
DRB: 372 /413
AST: 93 / 124
STL:46 / 41
BLK: 59 /73
TOV: 146 / 139
PF: 314 / 279
PTS: 910 / 939
Lets see 3 categories where he dropped off (In Bold)
A) FG% – Ok so he took a couple more bad shots last year
B) ORB- more then made up for on DRB and we had better rebounders last year with Tyreke and Omri (Over Kmart and Noc)
C) STLS – More play on Centers, more post up work will do that to you- Made up for by blocks
But his FT% going up , Assists going up , less turnovers and less fouls show is he is growing more into his role and shows he is a good PF in this league. Oh and btw to compare him to Landry here are stats for all of last year
Jt / Landry
Games : 75 / 80
GS: 58 / 29
Minutes: 2357 / 2469
FG%: .472 / 536
FT%: .715 / .806
ORB: 224 / 188
DRB:413 / 280
AST: 124 / 66
STL: 41 / 55
BLK: 73 / 63
TOV: 139 / 136
PF: 279 / 234
PTS: 939 / 1343
Total FG & 3pt made/attempts: 371/794(JT) 500/934
Am I saying JT is better then Landry..Nope..But give JT his due..He’s been in the league 1 less year and is out preforming Landry in a lot of places (marked in bold italics). Also remember JT was also going against centers in the league last year , whereas you didn’t see Landry doing it. I think this kid is gonna be great here and he loves it in Sac. Keep him here and worry about overpaying Landry next year. I think JT would be willing to take less then Landry will if we decide to keep him.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Jul 23, 2010 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Check out the advanced statistics on the same page. The only real area JT declined in was his overall shooting, but he improved across the board pretty much everywhere else.
JT had a really poor stretch of play during the season, but it seemed that something clicked the last 20 or so games.
Overall, there’s no way anyone can convince me JT regressed last season.
Just to remind everybody,
JT was a DD machine during the first third or half of the season last year.
Then just kinda trailed off.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Also to remind everybody
JT seemed to pick it up last year after resting his back injury
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it was more about
clearing his head and simplifying.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 23, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Could that have been Landry coming in and taking some minutes from him, could it have been the back injury, could it be they used him more against centers..Who knows but there are plenty of reasons this could have happened
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
And he started the year in fantastic fashion.
Some posters only want to talk about his bad stretch, ignoring 2/3rds of the season.
by MichaelMack on Jul 23, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think JT's hot streak took up 2/3rds of the season
It lasted for 2 months.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 23, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Hot streak may have been 1/2 of season, Consistent 1/3 of season, bad stretch 1/2 season..Even on consistent mode JT is not to shabby, and could be really great
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
To be honest I am not terribly high on JT
I think his performance early on in the year is about as good as I would ever expect from the guy. I don’t really see him developing many post moves and will probably continue to score in much the same way as he does now: put backs off of offensive rebounds and mid range jump shots. That being said though, at least he is somewhat consistent on offense, he can definitely rebound well, he so far has played a ton of games, and I think his defensive inefficiency is somewhat exagerated (whether it’s because he was playing with Hawes a lot or the fact that his constantly whining at officials after foul calls and that makes it look like he is losing the battle I don’t know).
I think that is a pretty valuable PF/C next to Cousins for the future if you ask me.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 23, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
With his consistency and less whining/fouls (Which I think he already started at the end of last year) he is a great cheap option right where he is ..Like i said don’t get me wrong, Landry is definitely better offensively, I would rather wait to see JT at the end of this year and see how he does before we could just go trading him off.
When i went to the trade machine, honestly i couldn’t really see anyone I would want to trade because guys worked well together, and because With Dalembert and DMC, we got what we were really missing in putbacks and with Defense around the basket. I think with them, Casspi and Greene are really gonna need to improve their 3pt offense and defense, as the lane will be pretty clogged up next year. As i said before I think best mentor for Casspi right now would be Doug Christie, who I think could really do a lot for him on the defensive side of the ball.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Ideally JT would be your #3 big
coming in at PF or C as needed.
That’s been my opinion for some time now. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I just don’t think he’ll develop into starter quality for a contender. Most teams would loooove to have him as thier #3 big.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 23, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Also remember, that JT played the majority of his minutes at Center
His numbers were close, but he was better at Center than at PF. And, I doubt that JT will see many minutes at Center this season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
JT playing PF next to Dalembert
is going to really help him. He won’t have to guard the best big anymore, not pick up cheap fouls as much, and that will let him focus on the game.
Anybody that says JT regressed last year is fooling themselves. You don’t have to think that JT is going to be an all-star, or even a full time starter in this league. But as far as the development of a young(ish) big goes, I think he is right on schedule…not ahead but not behind. If he is going to be an above average player in this league, barring injury, you should expect somewhere around 14 and 9 from JT, at the very least
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
It's not that I'm so impressed with Flynn
I think he had a so-so rookie season and was never someone I was really high on in the draft – I thought (and think) he’s just solid.
But I don’t know that I’m so impressed with Jason Thompson either. He’s definitely solid and was good early in the season, but I think Landry is probably the future at PF (I expect the team will find a way to keep him), DMC is the future at C, and quite honestly I think Hassan Whiteside is going to end up giving the team more than JT. They’re similar players, but Whiteside’s length and athleticism, shotblocking plus what looks to be pretty solid rebounding, plus an offensive game, I think will ultimately give him the edge.
It looks to me like both in the short term and long term JT is going to be the odd man out. At And if you have a chance to pick up a young PG on a rookie contract, it’s enough of a position of need that I think you do it if it’s available.
But I think there are compelling reasons not to do it as well – you could go from having a very deep front line to having just Whiteside and DMC if Dalembert/Landry aren’t re-signed, and maybe JT is a chip you hold for part of a bigger deal.
Any trade involving JT
perks my interest. Flynn proved he will be at least be a valuable back-up. I’d do this trade. We need speed in the backcourt and Flynn provides that.
I think the plan is to start Flynn along side Wes Johnson, so Minny probably not ready to pull the plug yet. But with Kahn toss logic out the window.
If Flynn was a bigger threat from deep I'd honestly consider it.
But he’s not. If Flynn was Aaron Brooks level or maybe even Ty Lawson level, I’d entertain something around that. But he’s not. I think that’s severely overpaying for Flynn(and I’m a big Flynn fan). Just not a fan of Flynn on THIS Kings team.
In fairness to Flynn
His rookie year was better than Aaron Brooks. Brooks shot 40% from three and averaged almost 20 a game last season, but that’s up from 33% and five points as a rookie. Meanwhile, Flynn averaged almost 14 points a game and shot 36% from 3 as a rookie.
If you make this deal, the assumption is that Flynn is going to get better and eventually become the kind of player Brooks is.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Not doubting that.
However, at this point I’d take a bird in the hand and roll with Brooks if both were available hypothetically speaking.
And you'd pay a lot more for the privilege
Then again, it’s not our money.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jul 23, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
No, but knowing that...
…you’re buying a reliable camry with a good title, and a perfect carfax is a lot better than grabbing a lexus with some shady history. Sure the Lexus might check out, but you don’t know. I’ll go with the sure bet, it’s less of a gamble and more of a reward is likely, IMO.
I would love Lawson
With Beno off the bench to change tempo a bit. I am just a big fan of his.
That's probably is the type of deal GP is looking to make.
Although I believe NOH will be looking from more than a hand full of role players and $4M in cap relief before they ship out Paul and Okafor
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Doesn't he want to save some space for this offseason
to re-sign Dalembert or Landry or both?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Althought I'd rather have Brooks than Landry or Daly next year.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, this is just ridiculous.
Landry, one of the most efficient big men in the league, is waaayy more valuable than Brooks.
Dude, we can get an undersized guard for a dime a dozen. How the hell do you value Brooks over Landry? Defend thyself from this asinine statement, sir.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 24, 2010 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude.
Brooks is effing good. And on our team, Brooks playing 30+ minutes on our team is worth more than Landry playing about 24 minutes a game like he will if DMC, Whiteside, JT, develop and Sam is able to contribute.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 25, 2010 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
If, if, if...
Landry’s PER is ridonkulous, especially for an undersized PF. Whiteside’s a long way out. JT will play well this year. Cousins will, too…but then the rookie wall pretty hard. Sam can’t score like Landry does, which makes them a perfect frontcourt pairing.
Landry is a “big” man that scores very well with a high PER and low salary. You don’t trade that for an undersized PG.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 27, 2010 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions
You can afford to when you are loaded up frontcourt and anemic in the backcourt.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 27, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, that's why I;m glad you're not the Kings GM.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 27, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow
I’d MUCH rather have Brooks as a RFA this summer, than Landry as a UFA. Also, if you haven’t noticed. We just drafted these guys named Cousins and Whiteside, already have JT and traded for a guy named Dalembert. While we have Beno and Garcia as complement to Evans in the backcourt.
Not only is Brooks a greater need, and a BETTER FIT for this roster, he also comes with INSURANCE in the form of RFA status, which makes him pretty much guaranteed to get a new deal with the Kings, whereas Landry could walk for nothing.
Typically I don’t like to trade Big for Small when the value is close, but this is one instance where I definitely would.
Brooks would be a PHENOMENAL addition to our roster. Even at the expense of Landry who is our most valuable trade asset.
If Landry is such a risk because he's an UFA,
then why would Hou give up Brooks? If it’s important to you that Landry might walk and we end up with nothing, don’t you think that Hou would be aware of that too. And, didn’t Hou trade Landry to us for a guard, so why would they want to trade a guard to get him back, knowing that they could lose him in Free Agency?
Plus they resigned Scola, drafted Patterson and traded for Hill. Again this is a one sided trade and doesn’t have anything to offer Hou.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I'm not debating what Houston would do here.
I’m just saying if I had a chance to trade Landry for Brooks. I WOULD.
Yeah HT, you make a good point.
But we want to trade Landry for Brooks straight up if possible.
The only reason they’d do it is to satiate the rabid mob that formed after Landry was traded to us!
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 27, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
That ain't happening.
The Rockets took Patrick Patterson for a reason.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Bah!
Dang…
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 27, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I was talking to Casey.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No problem.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I got confused, and forgot this was the Asinine Tread Thread
so I guess I shouldn’t argue against it, and you needn’t defend it.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Sure,
but my comments stemmed much more from a player comparison stand point and how each fit on our roster. Just because Brooks is on the rockets this year, doesn’t mean he will be after a year in free agency.
He’s the ONE Free Agent that stands out in my mind. And I could see him commanding 8-10 million on the open market.
With our abundance of cap space we could offer a FRONT loaded deal that would make it extremely painful for the Rockets to match next off-season.
I believe my involvement started after you tried to justify this
comment:
I’d trade Landry for Brooks STRAIGHT UP in a NANOSECOND.
but I understand that you weren’t speaking for Hou or how they would react. But, this is a really bad attempt at getting yourself out of a hole.
If you
could see him commanding 8-10 million on the open market.
I’m guessing that you expect him to start at PG and Tyreke to be moved to SG. Because I can’t see us paying that type of money for a backup PG, or
offer a FRONT loaded deal that would make it extremely painful for the Rockets to match next off-season.
I’m not sure the Kings are ready to give up on Evans being the starting PG after his 20,5 & 5 season. Maybe, if his outside shooting improves, but his playmaking doesn’t improve by the end of the season, they could be more open to moving Tyreke. But, I don’t see that happening this season.
So, if you’re saying that the KIngs might want to make an offer to Brooks next season, looking for him to be our starting PG, it could be possible. But, I don’t believe he’ll warrant $6-8M under the new CBA, and with Yao possibly retiring after this year, Hou will have his $17M to spend on resigning Brooks so the Kings would really have to overpay.
So, I really don’t see that happening either.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Trading doesn't have to be the traditional sense in this regard
We could pusue Brooks in Free Agency, sign him and let Landry walk. That’s essentially trading Landry for Brooks. But that’s neither here nor there. My point was that given the opportunity to add Brooks at the expense of Landry I would do it 10 times out of 10.
As far as who starts/sit. I DON’T CARE. I’m to the point that I want MESHING pieces. I don’t care who plays what. It’s about match-ups. On offense you create your mismatches with the type of personnel on your roster.
On defense, you match-up the best way that works. No matter what. Tyreke will ALWAYS have the other teams premiere defender on him, typically that will be a 2 or a 3.
So, the PG will always switch off onto the other guard we have or sometimes a 3 man.
So if you wanna call Brooks the PG or Tyreke the PG I don’t care. They COMPLEMENT each other. Brooks is a shooting PG, Evans is a ball-handling SG. Or if you want to simplify it. Evans is our PG and Brooks is our SG? Does it really matter? Not really. My point is that the two of them in the backcourt together bring a lot of the things we want to our unit FROM the backcourt.
Brooks is one of the most ideal fits in the league to pair next to Tyreke. Whether that’s at the 1, the 2, I DON’T CARE. I just want to see them paired up together.
They probably are, but they don't need $16M worth
Dalembert is going to have to take a cut if he wants a long term contract. Something in the same range as Haywood got with Dallas. He got 5yrs/$50M starting at $7.6M the first year and ending with $10.5 in the 5th year. So, if the KIngs gave Dalembert that kind of contract he’d be taking a $5M pay cut the first year. Give that to Landry and he gets a 166% raise to $8. So, we could give both players a 4yr/$40M contract or a 5yr/$50M contract, and our team salary for the 2 players would be the same as it is this year and it wouldn’t touch our cap next year at all.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Oh shiz...
Seems I forgot that their current contracts come off the books. Lol…wow.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 23, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
This is exactly what I see happening.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jul 25, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Kings-Nuggets
JT or Landry for Ty Lawson or Aaron Afflalo. I think the most likely scenario would be Landry for Lawson, and I think I’d prefer it that way. The Nugs would probably try to unload some pile of dump like Renaldo Balkman’s albatross contract on us, but I bet they would go for this trade without that, ultimately. Landry is a proven commodity, and a killer off the bench. They would be able to back up Nene and Kenyon Martin with Landry and Chris Anderson to try to make a title run (which would fail, but they’re all in at this point and over the luxury tax line). As far as losing Lawson, they would have a rotation of ‘Melo, Chauncy, JR Smith and Afflalo at the wings which would soak up a ton of minutes, then play Harrington at SF. I can’t see how they wouldn’t pull the trigger, especially with Carmelo’s looming free agency and the need to win “right now”.
For us: Lawson was a revelation last year. He was much more efficient than Jonny Flynn while backing up (and learning from) Chauncy Billups. He averaged 8.3ppg & 3.1apg while shooting 51% from the field and 41% from 3. Extremely efficient, only 22 years old but already very mature. This precipitates a move for Tyreke to off-guard full time (even though I don’t really subscribe to set positions). Depth chart:
Beno – Lawson – Jeter
Tyreke – Cisco – Wright
Donte – Omri
JT – Whiteside (remember, he’s rumbled that he would rather play power forward)
Dalembert – DMC
They could also substitue Afflalo, similar contract, similar numbers, 24 years old, but would probably start next to Tyreke, with Cisco backing up Afflalo and Beno backing up Tyreke. But I think they like his more veteran presence and would rather send out Lawson.
I think that’s a very competitive starting unit and a KILLER bench. We’re set for next year (we wouldn’t have BOTH Landry AND SammyD to deal with), even if we let Dalembert walk, all while maintaining cap flexibility. We clear up more minutes for Whiteside and DMC immediately, and bring in an efficient, level-headed point to be on the floor when Beno is resting. I’m brilliant.
Thoughts???
by Grantnapeareatskittens on Jul 24, 2010 7:29 AM PDT reply actions
My thoughts?
Bad move. You’re trading a very efficient starting PF for a back-up guard!?!
Why the FUCK is everybody undervaluing Landry so much? Landry for Afflalo, straight-up?
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 27, 2010 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Because it's fun to be an armchair GM.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree. But part of the fun is constructing trades that screw other teams, not ours!
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 27, 2010 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Heh.
Unfortunately that won’t ever happen in real life.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
My trade
Chris Paul to the Kings
Jamal Crawford and Francisco Garcia to New Orleans
Atlanta receives cap space
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
How does NO turn this down!?! What a great trade for them!
psyche.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
---
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jul 27, 2010 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
3 Team trade, Kings-Raptors-Pistons
This is probably my first trade….so go easy on me.
Kings receive: DeMar DeRozan, Marco Belinelli
Raptors receive: Jason Thompson, Chris Wilcox
Pistons receive: Darnell Jackson
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=256832o
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
Derozan might just be Toronto's best player
And they just locked up Amir Johnson, who is better than Wilcox, and drafted Ed Davis, who can end up better than all the bigs mentioned.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Good times!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2953mds
My asinine Presti-inspired CP3 3rd wheel trade here. I just thought it was odd how ESPN thinks trading Dalembert for Thornton and corpses of Peja and Posey would increase wins by 8.
I'm just curious
I know there was a post on this a couple of days ago, but is there any way we could possibly get our hands on Xavier Henry? As long as this thing is asinine anyways, my trade recommendation would probably be along the lines of offering our two second round picks for Thabeet and Henry, which doesn’t quite get Memphis under the cap, but very close. I highly doubt they’d go for it, but it would be worth an offer. Any other suggestions?
Not to mention
With the signing of Tony Allen, and bringing back Rudy Gay the Grizzlies have a glut of wing players, putting Henry at around 3rd on the SG depth chart. I’m not suggesting that they would give Henry away, but offering cap space for someone that they really don’t need could be something they bite at. I wouldn’t do it, but this is the Grizzlies…
Donte Greene, Whiteside and a 2nd rounder for Henry
We lose our ninth and 13th best players and get a possible guard of the future. Casspi, Wright and Garcia will soak up Donte’s minutes. Get it done, Petrie.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Not sure I'm quite willing to give up Donte
Though Henry may end up being the better player, Donte has still proven that he can compete on an NBA level while Henry has not. Whiteside I could do, especially if they unload Thabeet on us for cap space. I say we offer them Whiteside and our two second rounders for Thabeet and Henry. If I’m Memphis, and I have a player that’s on the verge of demanding a trade that’s redundant anyways, and I have a cheap owner, I at least think about this trade. I consider Whiteside on about the same talent level as Thabeet, for a fraction the price.
How many points in the NBA has Henry scored?
Memphis has Thabeet and just resigned Gay, so they want Donte & Whiteside why?
Is there any big that you haven’t suggested that we trade away for a guard? We’re already short on talent and you seem to be willing to trade away whatever talent we to have, in 2 for 1 trades. And now for a player that hasn’t even had one practice as a NBA player.
If Petrie does anything, it won’t be that. Maybe he offers them a future draft pick but Memphis doesn’t have any bad contracts to throw in except Randolph, so we can’t really use our cap space.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Memphis has Thabeet and just resigned Gay, so they want Donte & Whiteside why?
They also have Mayo playing ahead of Henry, so why would they want him? Answer: depth. So they have a guy they can’t sign who provides depth that they can trade for two signed guys who provide depth.
Is there any big that you haven’t suggested that we trade away for a guard? We’re already short on talent and you seem to be willing to trade away whatever talent we to have, in 2 for 1 trades. And now for a player that hasn’t even had one practice as a NBA player.
But also a guy who was the fourth guard picked this year, is tall and can shoot lights out from three. In other words, the perfect compliment to Tyreke and the type of guy Petrie has been saying we need to add to our team. And to get this “talent” that will improve the team’s talent level, I am proposing we trade our ninth best player and our 13th best player, guys who can easily be replaced. Is Donte really better than Casspi, Garcia and Wright?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
There you go again twisting the facts to fit your arguement
Why do they want Donte & Whiteside more than Henry, NewEraKings says
They also have Mayo playing ahead of Henry, so why would they want him? Answer: depth. So they have a guy they can’t sign who provides depth that they can trade for two signed guys who provide depth.
Ignore the fact that Memphis’ starting PG is backed up by their starting SG, and that their starting SG is backed up by Sam Young a 2nd round small forward. So, Memphis has 2 actual guards and 8 frontcourt players. But, according to you they would be better off adding 2 more frontcourt players for DEPTH, while trading away their 3rd best guard and leaving the starting backcourt with no DEPTH at all.
I had ignored Widows comment as being slightly unfair, but now I think he may have the best course of action when dealing with you.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I'd run to this gambit as well
if I was opposing a trade because the guy we were potentially trading for was a rookie while complaining that it’s not a good deal because we would send the other team a rookie and a future draft pick who will become a rookie. I guess our rookies become special after we draft them, but all the other rookies are crap.
By that line of thinking, we shouldn’t have drafted and then played Tyreke and Casspi. We shouldn’t have traded for Donte. We shouldn’t have drafted Cousins and Whiteside because, you know, those guys have yet to score a point.
Would you prefer we just trade all our draft picks from now on?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
You kind of conveniently forgot
that the Grizzlies just signed Tony Allen. And they also have rookie Greivis Vasquez that they are also trying to sign. They could also resign Jamaal Tinley and/or Marcus Williams cheap. And, of course, we all know that Donte could play the 2 guard for them. And Sam Young is a guard-forward.
So Conley, Mayo and Tony Allen will probably soak up most of the guard minutes. Vasquez will be the backup at PG, and Young can play some minutes. There may not be a lot of playing time for Henry anyway, particularly if his holdout gets long in the tooth.
So three centers, three PFs, Gay and Young, and three signed guards with more to come.
What is funny is if Vasquez signs, they will actually have more true guards than the Kings.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I stand corrected, I did forget about Allen
But, I still believe that Henry would be their 3rd best guard, as I stated. And, Vasquez has not signed yet, and I don’t think he can make up for the lose of Henry.
So, I stick to my point that adding Henry as their backup guard is more important than adding Donte as the backup to Gay & Young or Whiteside as the backup to Randolph and Arthur.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I agree
Unless they play Young primarily at the 2 and Donte backs up Gay and also plays some 2 and 4. And Whiteside has kind of the same role he would have with the Kings: project playing limited minutes.
Naturally, 1-2 guys gets hurt and they are glad to have that depth.
The whole point of the trade from their standpoint would stem from not being able to sign Henry at all and wanting to turn lemons into lemonade.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Really stupid line of thinking
How many points in the NBA has Henry scored?
As many points as John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins. As many points as all the other rookies.
Meanwhile, what about your known quantity and “talent” that we just have to hang onto because the guy who was drafted 12th hasn’t scored yet (and, my God, hasn’t even practiced!)? Donte Greene has scored fewer points than 27 guys who were drafted in 2008. And that doesn’t even count the undrafted guys.
But, you’re probably right, the team will simply fall apart if we make this deal.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Dude...your deal is stupid.
Way too much to give. I wouldn’t even do Whiteside for Henry straight up.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 26, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Ironically
Petrie might agree with you. In fact, I was considering earlier the scenario that we had the 12th pick instead of the 5th pick, Cousins was gone and Henry and Whiteside were on the board. He probably would have taken Whiteside. But now that we have both Cousins and Whiteside and also possibly Jackson, Whiteside might be a worthwhile trade chip to consider dealing to improve the club.
Anyway, Henry is too good a prospect not to take a stab at if this situation continues to linger. It’s too bad they aren’t in a condition to take on one of our bad contracts.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I doubt there is any way GP is dealing Whiteside until he knows that Whiteside is a bad fit alongside DMC.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Probably not even for LeBron, right?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Jul 26, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The Heat are over the cap.
So, no.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 27, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's get Asinine
SCREW YOU CHRIS PAUL!
That’s what the Hornets say. They wanna dump Okafor and Posey with Paul
Hornets trade: Paul, Okafor, and Posey
Kings trade: Dalembert, Casspi, Thompson and 2011 1st round rounder(top 3 protection).
Kings new roster:
C: Okafor, Cousins
PF: Landry, Whiteside, Jackson
SF: Greene, Posey, Wright
SG: Evans, Garcia, Sloan
PG: Paul, Beno, Jeter
I would do this. Now, would the Hornets?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Byron Mullens, D.J. White and Kyle Weaver are available from OKC
RealGM report here. Formulate your trades.
Weaver'd be the only one I'm remotely interested in
And that’s because of his defensive potential. Needs to grow lot offensively though.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Kings and Nuggets -
This does two things for the Nuggets. Gets them under the lux tax. And improves their frontcourt.
Kings deal:
Carl Landry
Darnell Jackson
Beno Udrih
Kings receive:
Kenyon Martin
Arron Afflalo
Ty Lawson
3 million cash
Why for the Pistons. Their frontcourt gets deeper while maintaining a solid 3rd guard off the bench. They shed ~10 million dollars to get under the tax while remaining competitive. They take on some long term money in order to save short term.
Why for the Kings. They position themselves for further financial flexibility while solidifying the future of their backcourt.
New roster:
C: Dalembert, Cousins
PF: Martin, Thompson, Whiteside
SF: Greene, Casspi, Wright
SG: Afflalo, Garcia, Sloan
PG: Evans, Lawson, Jeter
Neggets:
C: Nene, Andersen, Sperm Whale
PF: Harrington, Landry, Se. Williams
SF: Melo, Balkman
SG: JR Smith, Coby Karl
PG: Billups, Beno, Atkins
Pass
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
by Surprise Team on Jul 26, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
No no and no
I’ve said it a few times. I’m a firm believer in Simmons’ knucklehead rule. One is okay. More than one is not because they might hang out. Kenyon Martin is a certifiable knucklehead. I want him nowhere near Cousins!
#vfettkefordraft
I'm not saying he's a knucklehead
but there’s enough question marks that I don’t want Kenyon Martin to be one of his role models
#vfettkefordraft
I'm honestly not that worried him
but youngsters are impressionable. That worries me.
That and I absolutely cannot stand Kenyon Martin.
#vfettkefordraft
or his neck-lips.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 27, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I read that he got the neck lips removed. Broke up with the girl, I guess.
by basketball galactica on Jul 27, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That looks even worse.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Okay, here's an idea....PHI-NOH-SACTO
With Paul rumored to be staying in NOH, I can totally foresee this type of deal going down.
Hornets, Sixers, Kings
I truly believe that Andre Iguodala is the next big money, big time player to move teams. The SIxers have their back straight up against the Lux Tax threshold. I think they want to ditch their long term salary and begin a rebuild focused around Holiday, Turner, Young, Speights and Hawes.
I think that Iguodala is easily a target of New Orleans to appease Paul. With our cap space, we can help alleviate the financial concerns that both teams might have in order to get some value back in return and fill out our roster with some veterans.
My three way trade idea:
Sixers give – Iguodala and Kapono, Jodie Meeks 3 million cash
Sixers receive: Peja, Thornton, 1st rounder from NOH, 2 2nd rounder from Sacramento, 6.6 TPE
Sixers add shooting, slash future payroll, pick up a nice young asset in Thornton and gain a 3 future picks to help build up cheap talent.
Hornets deal – Peja, Songaila, Collison, and Thornton, 1st round pick(lotto protected), 3 million cash
Hornets receive: Iguodala, Darnell Jackson and Jodie Meeks, 1.3 TPE
Hornets get a dominate wing to help Paul, West and Okafor become competitive. The Hornets move enough cash to gain some financial solace.
Kings deal – Darnell Jackson, 6.6, 4,8 TPE and 1.3 million TPE’s, 2 2nd round picks
Kings receive: Jason Kapono, Darius Songaila, Darren Collison, 6 million cash
Kings add a nice young guard to their roster and get a veteran at the three and four for depth. THey receive 6 million to offset over half of the contracts and get themselves above the Min. salary threshold at the expense of 2 future 2nd rounders. All contracts, minus Collisons’ are expiring and give the Kings maximum financial flexibility going forward.
Kings new roster:
C: Dalembert, Cousins, Whiteside
PF: Landry, Thompson, Songaila
SF: Greene, Casspi, Kapono
SG: Evans, Garcia, Wright
PG: Collison, Beno, Jeter
waive Sloan’s non-guaranteed contract.
Hornets:
C: Okafor, Gray
PF: West, Brackins, Jackson
SF: Wright, Pondexter, Posey
SG: Iguodala, (Brown), Meeks
PG: Paul, (House), (Crittenton)
Sign Shannon Brown, Javaris Crittenton and Eddie House to contracts(using part of their MLE for all) to fill out the roster
Sixers:
C: Hawes, Battie
PF: Brand, Speights, Smith
SF: Young, Nocioni
SG: Turner, Thornton, Green
PG: Holiday, L. Williams, (E. Watson)
Signs Earl Watson for a vet. PG in the backcourt for the minimum.
by Smills9133 on Jul 26, 2010 12:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice deal for Kings and 76ers
I’m not so sure that picking up Iggy and his $56M contract over 4 years, is that much of an incentive for Paul to want to stay. Especially since it’s going to cost them 2 highly thought of young backcourt players.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Well one plays his(Pauls') position
And the other plays Iggy’s position. I think Iggy is a big enough upgrade both offensively and defensively to make this a worthwhile deal for the Hornets.
C: Okafor
PF: West
SF: Wright or Pondexter
SG: Iggy
PG: Paul
Is a very nice starting line-up.
Add in Brackins and Pondexter/Wright off the bench and that’s a pretty good rotation right there. Posey, Meeks, Brown and House can round that out and make for a pretty good team overall.
If NOH wants Iggy, they could probably do a deal straight up for Peja.
or Peja & Thornton for Iggy.
or Peja & 1st rounder for Iggy.
Philly would love to get out from under Iggy and Brands contracts.
NOH aren’t giving up 2 young talents just to save $8M this year. It isnt a price any GM would pay.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I'm not so sure Philly wants to do that.
The Dalembert trade cost them long-term financial flexibility, especially if they plan on re-signing Hawes this year.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
It got them under the tax
That was the point of the Daly trade from Philly’s POV, and also to get a cheap 21 y/o center that was a lotto pick. That was kinda a no-brainer from Philly’s POV.
Their financial flexibility is locked up in Brand and Iggy
their 2 contract $30M in 2011/2012 represent 66% of the 6ers contracts. But, Brand, Hawes and Speights are their only true bigs unless Jason Smith can make something of him self. Thadeous Young is a SF not a PF.
So, the only way to free up any real cap space is to trade Iggy. Peja’s expiring contract will free up $13.5M in cap space for 2011/2012, and Thadeous Young would fill in for Iggy. Holiday, Turner, Young, Brand, & Hawes as a starting lineup and a base salary of $34M excluding their 2011 1st rounder, would put Philly on the fast track to rebuilding.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Agreed
But the Daly trade still did get them under the luxury tax for this year until contracts like Kapono comes off the books. They also take a flier on Hawes to create a team under the roster they currently have.
I.E. Hawes, Speights, Young, Turner, Holiday vs. Dalembert, Brand, Iggy, Green, Williams
They have a nice young nucleus now at every position with the dealing of Dalembert. Couple that with the fact that they are lux tax free(by a hair) and the trade they made was a no-brainer for the Sixers.
Sure Brand and Iggy are holding their financial freedom hostage for the next couple years. But only Young and Hawes are up for extensions. Holiday, Turner and Speights will be on rookie contracts for the majority of the time they have those contracts. And they could EASILY deal Iggy for an expiring and change at any given moment.
One instance where they give themselves some breathing room is to deal Kapano’s expiring deal with 3 million cash to a team like the Kings(that have cap space and need a shooter at the 3) and perhaps sell off an asset(Smith, Speights, Hawes, future first etc) to a 3rd team to send 3 million dollars more to the Kings in a 3 way.
THat essentially gives the Kings Kapono for free, and the only assets we give up are trade exceptions.
You just gotta get creative.
Or just have have a wild imagination
Greene, Casspi and Garcia are all better shooters than Kapono, so why would the Kings take on his $6.6M contract for $3M in cash?
And, I think you’ll find that finding someone to take on Iggy and his $56M contract for expiring and change, would be a lot harder than you think.
Without moving Iggy before 2011/2012, extending Hawes & Young, plus signing that years 1st rounder, will put the Sixers over the salary cap even if they don’t make Smith a QO. Yes, they are under the cap this year because of the Dalembert trade, but they’re not out of the woods until they move Iggy.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Read the second paragraph
One instance where they give themselves some breathing room is to deal Kapano’s expiring deal with 3 million cash to a team like the Kings(that have cap space and need a shooter at the 3) and perhaps sell off an asset(Smith, Speights, Hawes, future first etc) to a 3rd team to send 3 million dollars more to the Kings in a 3 way.
See the bolded part about selling off another asset to send the kings an additional 3 million for a total of 6 million
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
I saw it but don't think it's possible under the CBA
which has a $3M limit on cash in trades.
Besides my point was that Iggy needs to be moved so that Philly gets some financial lea way next season. Kapono is an expiring this year so his contract will already be gone, and won’t help in 2011/2012. And, why would anyone trade away talent so that they can pay someone $6M to take a $6.6M expiring contract off their hands.
So, I don’t agree with his accessment that moving Kapono helps or that Iggy will be easy to move.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I believe it’s no more then 3 million from any one team. Now if you have multiple teams involved i believe each team out in their 3 million. I do agree with this fact though why would they give up all the talent when they can move him midyear for possibly a draft pick as an expiring contract.
Cap this year doesn’t matter until the end of the season anyways, so its not like they have to get rid of the guy, and even if they did, there are other teams probably willing to take him and 3 million, and hand back a 3 million dollar guy of their own.
I didn’t say i agree on this trade more of just wanted to push in about the 2nd team
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
As Pookey points out below, it's $3M per trade.
a 2nd player would have to be traded in a 2nd trade for the Kings to receive $6M.
The deal just can’t be done as outlined
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Okay
The rub is how many trades there are. It’s possible, WW & HT, that you can have one team make two trades, and the other team, involved in the same transaction, only make one trade.
An excellent example of that is the Dallas-Washington trade at the trade deadline.
Coon’s FAQ on simultaneous and non-simultaneous trades. He also wrote a good tidbit on it (that I found useful as I was unclear on exactly what constitutes each) on Hoopsworld.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But WW here is the thing
Dallas couldn’t send 6 million in cash even though there was 2 trades from Washington’s POV. Why? Because there was only one trade from Dallas’ POV>
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
OK here’s how it goes down.
Trade #1:
Sixers send Kapono, 3 million Cash, along with
A)1st round pick
or
b) Speights
Trade #2 (part A)-Draft Pick: We sell off Sixers 1st rounder for 3 million
Trade #2 (part B)- We sell Speights for 3 million cash to random team after requisite waiting period for trading
Its completely legal by NBA rules because it is 2 separate trades, with 2 separate teams.Or they could just like Gives us Kapono, their 1st and 3 million and we don’t do 2nd part of deal..Petrie with 2-1st rounders again..YES PLEASE
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
The Kings won't get 3 million in cash + a 1st rounder just to take Kapono off the Sixers hands.
Anyway, you’ve deviated from the point HT was making which was in one transaction you can only get 3 million as part of the trade.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know you say you can only get three million as part of a trade, but is that from only 1 team or from all teams in teh trade.Ok so here’s my question and its just so i understand a bit better- Not trying to prove myself right., can a team just send cash another teams way with nothing in recompense..Say for instance
From 76ers – Kapono and 3 million goes to kings
From 76ers-Speights goes to lets just say Nuggets
From Nuggets -Send 3 million Sacramento’s way for the ability to get Speights instead of it being sent to 76ers
Wouldn’t this still be considered one transaction, but since 6 millions is going to the kings kings from 2 different teams(3 million a piece), it would still fit under NBA rules.
I am not the most knowledgeable person on this and even reading through all the FAQ and info i don’t find that as completely clear. Also to tack onto this, Do you think they would give up a first rounder for us to just take Kapono..I know it would seem like overpaying for him, but if we could trade him off at the deadline, then it would only really cost us 3 million, which basically means we are paying 3 million for another first rounder. I know a trade is not guaranteed at the deadline, but would it be worth a shot.
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Whether it's legal or not isn't the point
Philly isn’t paying us $3M Plus a 1st rounder just to move an Expiring $6.6M contract. And, they’re certainly not giving up their best PF.
Rather than give up a pick or lose a valueable player, they’d simply sit on Kapono for one more year or at least until the trade deadline when his expiring contract might have some value.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Your scenario would be legal WW.
But you gotta remember it’s one team each sending cash.
That said, HT is absolutely correct that Philly won’t send a 1st rounder or Speights plus 3 million in cash. Even though I think you’re choosing that as a hypothetical to make your point, it’s unrealistic in live application.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yes.
It is possible to pull it off.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The rule gents....
…is 3 million per TRANSACTION. It’s possible to trade 2 players separately and therefore have 2 trades but it looks like one trade. Therefore as long as trades are done in separate transactions, there can be 3 million for each transaction.
Coon’s FAQ doesn’t shed much light on the matter. But that’s my understanding as it goes. It could be there’s a cap for 3 million on one set of trades, but that makes little sense.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Paul STILL wants out, lets accommodate him.
DEN-SAC-NOH
Denver trades:
Nene Hilario
Kenyon Martin
Ty Lawson
Arron Afflalo
2011 1st round pick(to NOH)
Denver receives:
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor
James Posey
Kings deal:
Omri Casspi
Darnell Jackson
Kings receive:
Ty Lawson
Julian Wright
NOH trades:
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor
James Posey
NOH receives:
Nene Hilario
Kenyon Martin
Arron Afflalo
Omri Casspi
1st rounder(DEN)
Kings new roster:
C: Dalembert, Cousins
PF: Landry, Thompson, Whiteside
SF: Greene, J. Wright, A. Wright
SG: Evans, Garcia, Sloan
PG: Lawson, Beno, Jeter
Nuggets:
C: Okafor, Andersen
PF: Harrington, Jackson, Sperm Whale
SF: Posey, Balkman
SG: Billups, JR Smith, Karl
PG: Paul, Atkins
Hornets:
C: Nene, Brackins, Gray
PF: West, Martin, Songaila
SF: Casspi, Pondexter, Peja
SG: Thornton, Afflalo
PG: Collison, (FA), (FA)
One other thought is
Denver and NOH could make a West for Billups/Jackson to better balance the rosters…
I think you missing a guy named Carmello
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
NOH - PDX facilitated by us the Kings
PDX out: Pryz, Miller, Oden, Rudy, Bayless and Batum, 2011 1st rounder, 3 million cash
PDX in: Paul, Okafor, Wright, D. Jackson
NOH out: Paul, Okafor, Wright, 3 million cash
NOH in: Miller, Oden, Rudy, Batum, 2011 1st rounder
Sacto out: Jackson
Sacto in: Pryzbilla, Bayless, 6 million cash
Portland gets Paul and Oakey
NOH gets Oden, Batum and a vet stopgap at PG along with a 1st rounder while saving cash now and later
Sacramento gets more help at the 1 and 5 and basically gets Pryzbilla’s salary paid for by facilitating the deal.
New rosters:
Portland:
C: Okafor, Camby
PF: Aldridge, Pendergraph, Jackson
SF: Babbitt, Wright, Cunningham
SG: Roy, Matthews, Williams
PG: Paul, Johnson, Mills
Sacramento:
C: Daly, Cousins, Pryz
PF: Landry, Thompson, Whiteside
SF: Greene, Casspi, Wright
SG: Evans, Garcia
PG: Beno, Bayless, Jeter
NOH:
C: Oden, Brackins, Gray
PF: West, Songaila
SF: Batum, Pondexter, Peja
SG: Rudy, Thonrton, Posey
PG: Miller, Collison
So...
We facilitate a trade to make a team in our own division better why?
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 28, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Kings-Thunder-Grizzlies Trade
Kings trade- Carl Landry, Darnell Jackson, Future 1st rounder
Kings receive- Thabo Sefolosha, OJ Mayo, cash
Thunder trade- Thabo Sefolosha, Kyle Weaver, cash
Thunder receive- Darrell Arthur, Darnell Jackson
Grizzlies trade- OJ Mayo, Darrell Arthur
Grizzlies receive- Carl Landry, Kyle Weaver, Future 1st rounder
I would love to pair Evans with Mayo in the backcourt and this trade would allow us to do that.
The Thunder get a quality underrated big man in Arthur for Sefolosha and a player they would have waived anyway in Weaver.
The Grizzlies pick up a big man to score points for them off the bench and also receive more compensation for giving up Mayo.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
I dunno man
Is there a way to make this work without including Darnell Jackson?
by otis29 on Jul 27, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No need to worry otis
The Thunder will quickly waive Jackson, leading to the Kings locking up Darnell with a max deal.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
by Surprise Team on Jul 27, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd just cut the Thunder out and make it...
Landry, Jackson and a lotto protected 1st
for
Mayo and Arthur
But methinks the Grizz will be looking to move Henry soon.
If we're trading Darnell Jackson we best be getting Gasol, Mayo, Thabeet and their next 5 unprotected first rounders.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I'm assuming Darnell Jackson
had Chuck Norris DNA. The reason I used the past tense was that the Chuck Norris DNA kicked Darnell Jackson out of itself. And thus made Darnell Jackson as awesome as he currently is.
sorry but this is a midseason trade
Knicks get: Sammy, lotto protected 1st 2 future 2nd rounders
Kings get: Wilson Chandler & Curry(the fat one)
Kings of course waive Eddy as they did to Hughes last season
Kings-Suns-Pacers trade.
I’ll admit this isn’t one of my better trades. (Actually, I don’t have any good trades)
Kings trade: Jason Thompson, Darnell Jackson (Sorry Aykis), Future 1st rounder
Kings receive: Jared Dudley, Brandon Rush, Solomon Jones, 2nd round pick
Suns trade: Earl Clark, Jared Dudley, 2nd round pick
Suns receive: Jason Thompson
Pacers trade: Brandon Rush, Solomon Jones
Pacers receive: Earl Clark, Darnell Jackson, Future 1st rounder
Kings get two good shooting wings, a possible future backcourt mate for Tyreke in Brandon Rush. They also get another big man in Jones to offset the loss of two big men.
Suns get their power forward of the future to match up with Robin Lopez in the frontcourt in Jason Thompson.
Pacers get some young prospects, save some cash, and store up a first rounder for later.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
What's that old rule?
Never trade big breasts for two wings.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Kings - Nuggets - NOH
Assuming the Nuggets can’t re-sign Anthony and don’t want to deal with LeBron Gate 2.0. Notice this has 2 seperate elements to a trade, but viewed as one whole trade in the net result.
Nuggets deal:
Carmelo Anthony, Koby Carl, 3 million cash
Nuggets receive:
TPE, Craig Brackins, Quincy Pondexter, and 2011 1st round pick, 2nd round pick(from Kings via Bucks)
Hornets deal:
Peja, Collison, Brackins, Pondexter, 2011 1st round pick, 3 million cash
Hornets receive:
Carmelo Anthony, Coby Karl, Darnell Jackson
Kings deal:
Darnell Jackson, TPE, 2nd round pick
Kings receive:
Peja Stojakovic, Darren Collison, 6 million cash
Why for the Nuggets – They get some nice prospects back for Carmelo who has informed the team he will not be re-signing and would like to join CP3 in NOH. This allows the Nuggets to get under the lux tax this year(with Sacramento’s facilitation), and gain some good assets to move forward with and not be left high and dry like Cleveland.
Why for the Hornets – They gain Anthony to give them the dynamic scorer on the wing to make the Hornetes contenders in the West going forward. Getting Melo’s Bird rights will allow them to re-sign him at season’s end and become one of the top 2-3 competitive teams in the West.
Why for the Kings – They help Denver get under the tax, get themselves well over the min. threshold(which we’re still below by about half to a full million dollar range right now. We grab Collison for our troubles and end up paying about 9.5 million overall after the cash comes Sacto’s way for the Peja rental(hey a vet, sweet shooting 3 that could retire a King) and a young prospect in Collison wjp could be a nice fit next to Tyreke.
Roster
C: Dalembert, Cousins
PF: Landry, Thompson, Whiteside
SF: Greene, Casspi, Peja
SG: Evans, Garcia, Wright
PG: Collison, Beno, Jeter
Inspired elsewhere
IMPROVED here.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1042008
Kings and Suns:
Kings deal:
Carl Landry
Suns deal:
Jared Dudley
Earl Clark
2011 top 3 protected 1st round pick
Why for the Suns – THey get there Amare replacement at PF
Why for the Kings – They get invested in JT as PF of future. Won’t need to overpay for Landry this summer and get two cheap, quality young players along with what could be a pick in the 3-20 range(who knows what the Suns do next year).
I actually like this idea. We lose the uncertainty in Landry and in exchange get Dudley who’s a defender/3 point shooter. Clark who is an intriguing prospect to me(Lamar Odom-eque when played at the 4) and that pick could really be something to write home to mom about.
After the trade -
C – Dalembert, Cousins, Whiteside
PF – Thompson, Clark, Jackson
SF: Greene, Casspi, Dudley
SG: Garcia, Wright
PG Evans, Beno, Jeter
I like this a lot for both teams
Landry in that system will do quite well. Landry reminds me a lot of David West. They even look alike. West and Paul are a great combo. Putting Landry with a great PG in Nash will make him look incredible. He’s not as good a rebounder as Amare could be if he actually tried, but he’ll at least be consistent about it.
#vfettkefordraft
Dudley would probably also play the 2
In fact, he’d probably play ahead of Cisco at the 2. He’s certainly not going to be third on the depth chart at those two positions. If so, you’re basically giving up Landry for Clark’s “potential,” which will remain untapped because you’re burying him behind Thompson (and probably Whiteside), and the late first-round pick.
In essense you are trading Landry for three role players when we already have a team with plenty of role players and one star. Why not instead trade three of our role players/picks for another player as good as Landry?
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Since three role players = a star
If I was going to target three young guards to pair with Tyreke, I’d have no problem with any of these three:
- Aaron Brooks.
- OJ Mayo.
- Stephen Curry.
All three are young and averaged more than 17 points a game last season.
If you think the Kings would be willing to dump Landry for two backups and a late first-rounder, it stands to reason these teams would jump at something like Donte, Beno and a protected first rounder.
Disclaimer: these three guys have all practiced.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
I'd prefer no Mayo
A guard playing next to Tyreke needs to have a nice mix of scoring and passing, like beno does. I don’t think Mayo does this well enough. It’s possible that he could, but I just don’t see it. Brooks and Curry would be fantastic, although we have no chance of landing Curry anytime soon.
#vfettkefordraft
Simple, no non-sense trade.
Kings trade Darnell Jackson for
Erick Dampier and 2011 second round pick.
The Bobcats get a fat trade exception and the Kings get a free 2nd rounder out of it after they waive Damp.
I'd be all for picking up Delonte West and his bag of crazy
Local KFCs would be ecstatic. Dudes with hot moms… not so much
#vfettkefordraft
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