LeBron James, Tyreke Evans and the Fear of Someday
by Tom Ziller on Jul 8, 2010 12:18 PM PDT
in Commentary
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PrintTonight, LeBron James will announce his decision to leave or stay with the Cleveland Cavaliers, a team based near the only home he's ever know, the only pro team he's ever played for. So much analysis after The Decision will be based on the potency of the new team, should LeBron leave. The legacy of King James. How damaging this whole episode has been to his brand. How despicable a young, black and rich showman has become by daring to upset the Old World Order and take his message into his own hands.
I, as you can obviously tell from that, don't agree with the popular senitment that LeBron is some great narcissist for handling his free agency in this manner. I certainly don't have sympathy for the whinging, thrashing media who simultaneously paint James as an egotist as they report his every muscle movement.
The only entity I really feel for through all of this is the collective fanbase of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Not the nouveau LeBron bandwagoners of the last seven years. But the real fans, our counterparts, the cats and kittens who have cried real tears, banged desks in real frustration and swore to write off fandom for good ... only to come crawling back before opening night of the next season.
If LeBron leaves, I can only imagine Cleveland will feel like a funeral.
And this is where Tyreke Evans comes in.
In today's NBA, with singular stars running the game, any team worth its salt runs up against the very fear Cleveland faces today: What if he leaves? Of course, some teams (Lakers, Celtics) have less to worry about, thanks to historic success and free-spending owners. (Even still, the Lakers nearly lost Kobe Bryant in 2004. The Celtics nearly lost Paul Pierce in 2006.) Small markets in the NBA face even greater fears, thanks to a deck stacked for the major cities. Shaquille O'Neal leaving Orlando remains the best example of crushing exit, not just because the Magic lost the most dominant big man of the '90s, but because said big man went on to win four titles (and counting) elsewhere.
Tyreke is our LeBron. He's our megastar, albeit in-the-making, unfinished, "potential." We are a small market. We cannot offer the nightlife, the luxury-tax supporting cast, the history of greatness. We have purple jerseys, Omri Casspi and a biblical mascot. When Evans becomes a free agent -- whether that be in three years, or in six years -- we will know this fear. Billboard pillow talk to Chris Webber? That ain't nothin'.
All humans fear rejection, and a desertion like LeBron may commit tonight, or like Tyreke could commit in the future, feels like a stab in the heart. That's part and parcel of hitching your apple wagon to a star. You want the glorious game-winners, the playoff victories, the chance at ultimate glory? Then you must risk the greatest pain. That's how it is, and it won't change. Be prepared, and hope for the best.
That hope may be running out in Cleveland, and that worries me. But we have at least three more years, and maybe 14, maybe 20. Enjoy them, and embrace the day.
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I'm hoping that Tyreke
models himself more after Kevin Durant than after LBJ.
I, as you can obviously tell from that, don’t agree with the popular senitment that LeBron is some great narcissist for handling his free agency in this manner. I certainly don’t have sympathy for the whinging, thrashing media who simultaneously paint James as an egotist as they report his every muscle movement.
I kind of expected you to explain why you don’t agree with the popular sentiment. Because the next line quoted above seems an indication that you do agree, and then you change the subject. Something got lost in the editing process?
Dunking Dutchman
Not that I agree
But the answer is in your quote. He’s stating the media is crucifying him over Le Decision, while they’re also the ones who give him the power to do this, by following his every move.
I don’t normally do disagree with much that Ziller writes, but I think this move by LeBron is a bit much. I didn’t like that with two years left on his Cavs contract he started talking about 7-1-10. I don’t like that he torments his current fans like that. And I think this ‘special’ makes things worse – especially if he doesn’t resign with the Cavs. Either way, I just don’t see why this show is necessary. It’s completely over the top. Just make the announcement, and then hold a press conference, like everyone else. The only reason you’d do otherwise is if you think you deserve better than everyone else.
Then again, being the nba information whore that I am, I will contradict everything I just wrote by watching tonight’s stupid-ass special. But being that we aren’t accountable for our own actions, I’m going to blame the media for making me the information whore that I am. Gotta go hit refresh on the STR and ESPN webpages – see you guys later.
Maybe I'm biased though
As I’ve always that that LeBron (the personality, not the ball player) sucks. Never liked his attitude.
Personally, I prefer the Kevin Durants and Tim Duncans of the world.
I am with you on the Kevin Durants and Tim Duncans.
I am a huge fan of Kevin Durant. He makes a great role model for other players to emulate. LeBron looks at basketball as a business. He is spending too much time in the backroom counting his money and courting his own fame.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Tyreke
Yes on Durant. Yes on Duncan. Durant’s decision to sign a really long and modestly paid salary (considering his ability, leadership and dedication), could easily be just as important as LeBron’s ‘DECISION’ in terms of its effect on hoops for the next 5-6 years. But it was quite, low-key, and basket-ball focussed.
Let’s hope our star follows the Durant model rather than the LeBron model.
I absolutely disagree
If one can’t tell the difference between the classy, graceful, and humble way that Durant handled his business verus the “hey everybody look at me” way that James has handled his then I don’t know that any amount of debating will do any good. And the color of his skin has absolutely ZERO to do with it.
Wonderfully put TZ.
I too feel for the Cleveland fanbase, especially if he really does announce that he’s leaving on national television tonight (I still think he’s going to stay). But this day could potentially set the Cleveland franchise back into the dark ages, something that they might never recover from.
Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster". Follow me on Twitter here.
This is all true
But you could have written this from a whole other standpoint, replacing Lebron with Kevin Durant. Maybe Tyreke and the Kings are more like Durant and OKC where humility and loyalty win out in the end.
The question, in my mind at least, is whether or not Tyreke wants dominate the headlines or dominate the court? Judging by his personality and fairly quiet demeanor I think the latter is the case. I hope.
#vfettkefordraft
It's that whole "blue print" thing that scares me.
The Kings really need Cousins to be a star to make this team go from good to great to dynasty in a few years. I expect Reke to stick around for that second deal but after that, who knows. If the Kings are perennial contenders, he may have a tough time walking away.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
I think the Cousins pick was huge
both literally and figuratively. It was the guy Reke wanted, and while they haven’t played a minute together yet, it has the makings of a great pairing.
Hear, hear!
The only entity I really feel for through all of this is the collective fanbase of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
LeBron
led the 17-win Cavs to 35 wins in his rookie season, 42 in the next and then five straight playoff trips, including a trip to the Finals. They never lost an opening round series in his time there. And still he is a disappointment despite two MVP trophies.
Tyreke will be measured by stats, but more important to any legacy is where he leads the Kings while he’s here.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Great point
and I think that puts us in a better position. I trust Geoff Petrie to build this team around its superstar way more than I’d ever trust Danny Ferry.
#vfettkefordraft
This just shows how important it is for Cousins to be a star and not a bust. His development will be the key to whether or not we keep Reke in Sacramento for future contracts. If he turns out to be a top 5-10 big man in the league I can’t see Reke leaving for another team.
Cleveland was never able to give LBJ a sidekick. They had so-so guys with career years, guys at the tail end of their careers – but never the Pippen, the Pau, the Shaq (in his prime) that MJ, Wade & Kobe had.
by Madzillagd on Jul 8, 2010 12:30 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I think this is the answer
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 8, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have panned down before commenting above-
This is how I feel also.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
Another thing
is getting a good coach. James only had mediocre coaches while in Cleveland. If Westpaul can continue to do good things here, there won’t be as much a worry about good players leaving. Let’s face it, there’s no worry of guys like Durant or Roy leaving because they’re in a good situation with a good coach, even though they play in tiny markets.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Jul 8, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Winning & direction heal all wounds.
By having a clean rebuild like we have, it has helped us stock up on young talent that will get better as Tyreke gets better. Thus hopefully landing us in a more KD like position than Lebron.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
I agree
With most of the post except for excusing James for his role in this drama. I wholeheartedly agree that the media has every bit as much to do with this overhype as LeBron does. However, the media’s job in sports particularly is to report, to educate, to entertain, to break news and rumors. The Tiger Woods drama of a few months back is the perfect example of this. LeBron, however, is a beloved player in his home state. He represents the best chance for the hard-luck sports city of Cleveland to ever get a championship. The problem I have isn’t with him leaving. Its not with the idea of him blowing his chance at a legacy. Not even to leave for hotter chicks or more endorsements. It’s leaving and publicly devastating his loyal fan base in Cleveland on a grandiose TV special. Its like putting your breakup on pay-per-view then driving past your ex’s house with the new hot chick just to be an ass. He’s turned a contract decision into a circus, and leaves Cleveland dangling. Those fans deserve more respect than that. And THAT is on LeBron and no one else.
I know the media only cares about ratings
so ultimately, it is “our” (the general public’s) fault. Apparently, that is what we want to see. I’m not sure when ESPN turned into the sporting world’s version of The View, and rumor based reporting became ok. I just can’t stand it anymore. I guess that is what happens when you have to fill 24 hours of programming with 15 minutes of information.
I does have a weird feel.
Kind of like a guy who’s been together with a girl for like 7 years and before he decides if he is going to finally marry her, he wants to openly have sex with 5 or 6 women ….just to be sure. And now, low and behold, one of those girls is a little bit hotter.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
Sorry, It, not I.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
I think a lot of it will depend on Tyreke.
Is he the guy who has been given everything, including his talent, or is he the guy who knows what it is to put in the work to succeed? To be honest, you guys can answer that better than I can. But I don’t remember hearing about Evans like I have Brandon Jennings, John Wall, OJ Mayo, and the like. James is in that style. Hyped by the media, getting by on talent, not work. And in this last playoff series, that came to fruition.
That’s not to say that those guys aren’t good. They are. Really good. You can’t pass those guys up. But they also go to where the attention is. But guys who work to get where they are seem to be a lot more loyal to the people they work with to get them there. And from the outside, I see Tyreke Evans as one of those guys. I don’t know if Cousins is, but Evans seems more in the line of a Kevin Durant type, a guy who’s good and knows how he got there. The only way I see Evans bailing is if the franchise bails on winning (see: New Orleans Hornets).
But like I said, you guys who have been following the Kings closer than I can probably tell this way better than I can.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Very well put, TZ
I completely agree that I feel awful for true fans of Cleveland. I think the bandwagon fans quickly fell in the trap of not caring about the regular season, but the true fans are there, and they don’t deserve this. Even if he stays, they don’t deserve the torment he’s put them through for over a year now.
I find it interesting that Danny Ferry is already gone, removing the easiest scapegoat should LeBron leave. Ferry consistently failed to deliver a quality sidekick, or a supporting cast that would grow and develop with LeBron.
I also worry about Tyreke Evans taking this path. As vfettke said above, hopefully Tyreke mirrors Durant’s approach, but this is the biggest concern about The Blueprint. As was also said above, hopefully Cousins develops and can be a lethal 1-2 punch with Tyreke. I think it would certainly lessen the chances of Tyreke’s departure.
I would love nothing more than to watch Evans and Cousins run this town for the next 15 years, with multiple titles along the way. But as a Kings fan, I’ve been conditioned to expect that reality will not match my ideas. For now, I’ll enjoy the ride.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Was that a shot at Woj over at Yahoo?
He seems to be knocking out about 3 full page articles a day complaining about how Lebron is pining for attention. Way to go Woj…that’ll show him!
by markdog333 on Jul 8, 2010 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Some might call that "ironic"!
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
don't ya think?
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
Reading Woj article he does appear to be doing a bit of that. In Woj’s defense it’s not quite the grumpy old sports writer chastising the young player for getting special attention.
He’s basically claiming he’s been behind the curtain and Lebron’s camp has deliberately staged and planned a lot of news to in order to fuel this circus.
OT: Looks like David Lee's heading to the Dubs
http://twitter.com/gswscribe/status/18058978600
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
That's a lot of offense.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
That's a good pickup for the Dubs if it happens.
Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster". Follow me on Twitter here.
deal far from done apparently
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5364903
If Azubuike gets traded to the Knicks, I think he will become a breakout start in D’Antoni’s system
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jul 8, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
breakout *star*
"I have missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot...and missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why... I succeed." Michael Jordan.
by Surprise Team on Jul 8, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
While I really like your post....
I disagree about LeBron.
He is handling this like a total douchebag.
The ONLY questions at this point should be 1) how he has been treated in Cleveland; and 2) is the front office competent enough to give him the complementary parts to win? Aside from that he now has a very good head coach – Byron Scott is a titanic upgrade to Mike (Cito Gaston) Brown, who I really think was a TERRIBLE coach. In addition the Cavs dumped a very uninspired Danny Ferry (whom I think sucked) and replaced with a question mark – Chris Grant.
Personally I think the Cavs have earned a short term deal at least, so it can be determined what Grant will do. You can be assured that Scott will get the tempo up to where it should have been so as to create more open court opportunities for LeBron. With a much more pleasing style, I think it will be far easier to attract talent to Cleveland.
As for all of this multi-media superstar crap……
Whatever. The dude is a big man with a high school education. Without hoop he would be working behind the counter at Arby’s. I am sick of multi-millionaires bitching about not being billionaires. Get a real job or shut up.
Personally I think the Cavs have earned a short term deal at least, so it can be determined what Grant will do.
Wait, you think LeBron should sign a short term deal with Cleveland to give them a chance to improve the team? With a new CBA coming into effect…really??
I am sick of multi-millionaires bitching about not being billionaires. Get a real job or shut up.
Perhaps you can link to some of LeBron’s quotes bitching about not being a billionaire??
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
Yes. Really.
It was referred to in a 60 Minutes interview.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/26/60minutes/main4895042.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
In the next 15 or 20 years, I hope I’ll be the richest man in the world. That’s one of my goals. I want to be a billionaire. I want to get to a position where generation on generation don’t have to worry about nothing. I don’t want family members from my kids to my son’s kids to never have to worry. And I can’t do that now just playing basketball.
LEBRON JAMES, Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Dec. 10, 2005
If he leaves Cleveland
it will probably be for less money.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
So on December 10, 2005
When LeBron James was 20 years old, he said he wants to be a billionaire. And you have extrapolated that out to him “bitching about not being a billionaire”?
That’s pretty weak, Hoops Mike.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
To add
Saying that he’d be “working behind the counter at an Arby’s” and not doing anything with his high school education is distasteful.
It sounds like you’re taking this whole thing pretty personally.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
If I am it is my opinion - Isn't that what this site is about?
I don’t see any credibility to the notion that you are the arbiter of what is tasteful.
I just have an opinion – one clearly opposed to your own.
It's my opinion that what you said is distasteful
You have every right to say it, and it’s not like I flagged it. So you might want to save the huffing and puffing.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
That's OK. It's my opinion that you are childish for having to respond to every post of mine that you disagree with.
What exactly is your “skin in the game?” You accuse me of taking LeBron’s decision personally, yet you seem to run to the defense of all things “LeBron.”
I don’t really care what he does, but I still think he is being classless (up to this point) in his FA actions.
It seems that you are missing my broader point, which is: how much is enough? If you are getting a max deal, then HOW can you actually be concerned with your “brand” or “market.”
Many of today’s athletes are completely insane.
It demonstrates how little perspective these folks have when their asses have been kissed for so many years by a stupid public. (Several folks have addressed that sentiment already)
How much is enough for anyone?
My issue with your point of view is this assumption that any of us would do anything different in his shoes.
These athletes aren’t insane Hoops Mike – they are Americans.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
Nonsense.
I know a slew of people for whom your statement is false.
In addition, there have been a multitude of athletes whom have turned down more lucrative offers from bigger markets to stay put.
Why do you presume that all people are motivated by is money?
There is nobody in this world that's been in the situation LeBron James is in right now
Not one person.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
Does that mean that one can't comment?
Ego is still ego.
Greed is still greed.
BTW – I think Alex Rodriguez HAS gone through a similar offseason. The difference is that he didn’t call for a one hour show to be devoted to his selection.
No
he just decided to tell the world he was opting out of his contract during the World Series. In which he wasn’t playing, and his team’s biggest rival was.
Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won 10 f-- games, not 10
by PoetryInMoten on Jul 8, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but if he left Cleveland, how would you know that it was done just for money?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
I don’t. I think my contribution to this thread has been split into a couple of different ideas which are being unintentionally conflated.
I was just saying that I am tired of many athletes complaining about dollars when they are getting tens of millions regardless. If you are complaining about 10 million dollars that you are leaving on the table, when you are going to receive 90 million anyway, I’m not very sympathetic. It is a non-specific observation.
An example I provided earlier was with regards to a quote that LeBron had made. I was never limiting my comment to LeBron, nor was I meaning to suggest that his motivation for this decision was simply money. I do think, however, that in the end his decision is based upon his legacy and brand (those do lead to money). I personally would find NOTHING compelling, noble or exciting about him latching on to Miami – in fact, I’ve just decided on calling him LeBron Wade if he does decide to go there. Rooting for Miami becomes like rooting for the Yankees as a non-New Yorker. It is like jacking all of your Nintendo stats to 99.
It is like jacking all of your Nintendo stats to 99
That actually did give me a good chuckle.
I would disagree about it being like the Yankees though. There is a cap in place that everyone has to abide by and the Heat made an educated risk to try and go after three of the big players. It could have easily fallen apart on them with Wade leaving to Chicago and Lebron and Bosh joining up in Cleveland. And heck if the three players already had some secret packed I can’t really judge three friends deciding they want to play together. Now if they in fact had that little deal between each other and are just putting on a show with all this unnecessary drama then yes that would be painfully annoying on their part but as far as I am concerned the Heat haven’t done anything wrong.
That being said, yeah I would most likely root against them unless they are playing the Lakers.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
I agree that the Heat aren't doing anything wrong.
That is quite different than saying that I need to like it.
I’m not sure what you aren’t agreeing to with regard to the Yankees. I was just commenting that adopting a star-studded team when you aren’t from the region (or are a young kid) is the least impressive fandom. It takes no serious intestinal fortitude to be a yankee fan, nor now, a Heat fan.
Well, I heartily agree on the bad coaching
and think they should have dealt with it a year or more ago, though it’s hard to fire a 66 win coach.
I don’t understand why they never managed to land him a true complimentary player, an excellent big man IMO might have done the job. The rest of the pieces are as good as all the role players that went in and out of Chicago for MJ.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 8, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This is where my opinion differ a bit
Not saying Cleveland obtained the best talent to put around him but seeing how players came to Cleveland and played worse I have my suspicions that Lebron is partly responsible for his teammates lack of development.
I've seen this line of thinking bandied about at a few sites
But haven’t seen anything tangible to indicate it’s true.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
Did you WATCH the playoffs?
LeBron went one-on-three constantly and also jacked up lazy threes repeatedly.
In Mike Brown’s system (which to be fair, LeBron was constrained by), LeBron regularly disregarded teammates in the playoffs.
Again
Is there anything TANGIBLE to back up this line of thinking, besides your anecdotal evidence?
Hell, I didn’t even say bignerd was wrong, I’m just curious if there’s some research on the subject.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
What kind of proof do you require? How would that stat be measured?
One piece of evidence would be to look at the stats of all players who played with James. Did their stats elevate with him? Did they decline?
I don’t think LeBron “hurt” the performance of others on a team I fully agree is fairly talent-poor, but neither do I see him elevating anyone’s play per se.
One piece of evidence would be to look at the stats of all players who played with James. Did their stats elevate with him? Did they decline?
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
You can probably pull it from +/- stats. Not sure if usage rate and assists percentages would do the trick but you might want to take a look.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Let me give it a shot
What you didn’t see from last years Cavs team was getting certain players established with touches early. Shaq, Jamison and Mo struggling you didn’t see a conscious effort to get these guys a few easy baskets to get their confidence back up early and at least establish another threat on the court. Instead it was Lebron 1 on 5 to start until it was bottled up the 3rd quarter. At that point it was pure desperation as James tried to get his teammates the ball for the first time in dire situations without a feel nor confidence for the game.
Go all the way back to the early Bulls dynasty. Bill Cartwright would have 8 of his 12-14 points in the first 6 minutes of the game to establish him and the post threat early. The Bulls also wouldn’t wait til the late 3rd before getting Pippen his chances to create on his own. The Lakers currently make a conscious effort to get Gasol into the flow early because he will get lost later if he isn’t involved early. These are concepts that were completely missing from Lebron’s Cavs team and could explain why players played worse in Cleveland. Ya, maybe it’s the coaching but it was failure to move the chess pieces he had across the board effectively.
I'm right there with you.
It was like Magic in the Showtime era.
Rambis and AC Green usually got their points early, on plays run FOR THEM.
Again though, in fairness to LeBron, Mike Brown wasn’t making many adjustments, or getting guys in positions to score.
bignerd, I wasn't disagreeing with you - you may well be correct
I’ve just seen this line of thinking dished out pretty regularly, but without any backup data to go with it.
If I get a few minutes, I’ll see what I can come up with.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
I’m not sure what the statistical data could prove. You know the current Shaq is already the worst Shaq. Jamison was a mid-season trade so you can blame a lack of continuity. Mo Williams has always been hot and cold. Some of the other key pieces on the Cavs squad have only existed with James so it’s difficult to get any comparison.
I’m fairly confident watching Cavs playoff games they didn’t utilize their roster effectively nor seemed to even grasp this concept for stretches of games. Again, it could be the coaching. I know Barkely has been pointing this out early in the playoffs the last few seasons and correctly predicting it would lead the Cavs demise.
Agree somewhat.
While the Cavs certainly never had a Pippen, they never had a Dennis Rodman nor a Horace Grant either. Toni Kukoc – no. The Bulls teams actually were quite talented.
I actually think that without LeBron, the Cavs might not even have made the playoffs.
Here is really the big question
Lets say Lebron goes to Miami or NY. How will he be received when he plays his first game back in Cleveland? Will his “friends” in Akron still wanna play softball with him? Will he still be able to hold a summer basketball camp in the state of Ohio?
And I think that is the difference with Tyreke. I think Tyreke understands that this is HIS team. I remember how heartbroken he was at the lottery when we found out we were getting pick #5. I agree that Cuz does need to be that superstar to pair with Tyreke so he doesn’t feel like he has to do it all himself.
Just a thought
but who do you think is in worse shape if Lebron decides to go elsewhere? Cleveland or New York?
I’m thinking New York because of all of the picks they have traded away.
Now even though Reke
has only been in the league for 1 year, i feel Reke doesn’t want to be in a big time city. SacTown fits his personality. Quiet, and Ninja. SacTown sneaks up on people and people don’t realize how good the team is…Just like REKE!
by shadowchicken on Jul 8, 2010 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm not too worried about it, for now.
For a few reasons.
1. Tyreke doesn’t seem to be an egomaniac. This can change though.
2. Tyreke will be very, very good. I don’t think he will be Lebron/Wade/Kobe/Durant good. More like Brandon Roy/Joe Johnson good with more of a killer instict.
3. Every year there are only a few teams with the cap space to sign a max player. Usually these teams are terrible teams.
4. This(#3) will give Sac more money to throw at him & a better team for him play with.
5. Because of reason #2 I don’t see 6-8 teams (including some very large market teams) depleting their roster & giving away draft picks to clear space for him.
6. We have a great GM & owners who are fans & like to win. The economy won’t be bad forever & eventually the Maloofs will have to spend but will also have the money to spend on a contending team.
All these things can change but for now I am confident we will be ok.
Oh yeah thanks for the downer in a slow offseason Ziller. Good thing I have these reasons because if I didn’t you would have to talk me off a ledge.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jul 8, 2010 1:22 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
To add
while they seem to have taken a bit of a hit with the Great Recession, the Maloofs did show a willingness to spend when the team was winning. I expect they’ll play it cheap for the next year or two, but once we’re back in the playoffs (hopefully 2011-12) they might open the purse strings if the economy isn’t still in the tank.
Team Reke >>>>>>>> Team Lebron
At least I know when its Reke’s turn to decide upon free agency his support system will be looking out for his own best interest instead of their own. At least I’ll know if Reke decides to leave Sacramento it’s because the Kings organization blew it.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Team Tyreke has been a very good influence on him and helped him keep his head from getting too big (not to belittle Tyreke’s own role in keeping himself level-headed). He seems to actually enjoy the small-market feel of this team and has embraced his role as the player to rescue this franchise. Whether that’s due to having the right people whispering in his ear or due to his own feelings, I don’t know, but either way I think his behavior would be much different. Team Tyreke and Tyreke himself have handled everything with dignity and class and I couldn’t imagine the same sort of circus resulting from Tyreke’s free agency.
Agreed.
When Tyreke got caught speeding, his brother(s) chewed him out. Tyreke later said:
“Apologies to fans, the Kings and my fam for bad decision making. Driving is a privilege & speeding was a mistake. I’ve def learned my lesson”.
Compare that to LeBron from two years ago:
“It’s no big deal,” James told the newspaper. “I was on my way home to go to sleep. You have to abide by the rules. I made a mistake.”
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
We've argued about this ad nauseum
So I’ll bow out of the LeBron debate with this one last post.
I do think this one-hour reveal is fairly lame. LeBron should make his decision, notify the teams involved, hold a press conference and then get to work. Whatever…I’m not watching it, so it doesn’t really mean a damn thing to me.
The point I’ll make is this. Over the last couple of days, I’ve seen LeBron James called about a million different names – I’ve seen quite a few references to “primadonna”, “narcissist” and “attention whore”.
Here’s what I haven’t seen – I haven’t seen LeBron making the media rounds. I haven’t seen LeBron indicate his preference for one location or another. I haven’t heard LeBron publicly make a promise to any organization that he’s going to come play for them.
What I have seen? Hundreds of thousands of words from guys like Bucher, Adande, Broussard, Wojnarowski, etc. Talking about LeBron, LeBron, LeBron. Trying to put the puzzle pieces together by parsing the words of people that know LeBron…or hell, people that don’t know LeBron.
Yet, LeBron is the bad guy here?
Today is the first day that free agents can officially sign contracts. LeBron James is apparently making his decision today. He’s not dragging this out, but he’s making a bit of a spectacle of the announcement. I may be a bit of an old fogey, but I recognize that this type of “reveal” falls right in line with the type of entertainment so many Americans enjoy these days. Not my cup of tea, but I’m probably in the minority in this regard.
Ultimately, the level of vitriol pointed at LeBron James is way disproportionate to his “culpability” here IMO.
But this is America, and if we aren’t building up our icons, we love tearing ’em down.
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
Fair enough.
I actually agree with your assessment.
(I don’t love the way LeBron is handling the announcement, but it isn’t like it is the worst thing a star player has ever done!)
Thank you sir
And sorry for the pissing match…
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
No worries!
Same here (I’m sorry).
If sports arguments can’t get snarky and stupid then what good are they..???
:-)
I'd like to think we are channeling our inner-East Coast sports fan. :)
"Matt Cain's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be, at anything. Matt Cain has a gift. He has a gift, and when you acknowledge that, then maybe we will have something to talk about."
He already made the rounds
He toured New York, New Jersey, Los Angeles, Miami and had them each bow and kiss his ring (except, well, he doesn’t have a ring yet). To say tonight is a “bit of a spectacle” is an epic understatement. And while I wouldn’t go as far to say he made his teammates worse, he clearly quit in the playoffs against Boston. His head didn’t’ look like it was in the game. What gives?
He didn't tour anywhere. He never went on any supposed tour and he never created all those hypothetical shoes.
He held all his meetings at the LRMR office. He never went to the Knicks dinner or events, he never toured Chicago, he never partied in South Beach on a recruiting pitch. He didn’t do any of those things. Show me your sources and proof of these things occurring, and I’ll immediately submit that I’m a clueless dumbass.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
well he was in ny
but that wasn’t an official visit. he was having dinner with jay-z prior to 7/1 because several writers were questioning why that wasn’t tampering given jay-z is an owner.
Having dinner with Jay-Z, a common occurrence for him, is not touring NY.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
agreed
I dont blame Lebron one bit. I don’t blame Bosh or Wade either. They should take their time cause it’s their life that will change, not ours. The only thing I don’t like is the one hour show, and since I don’t like it, I won’t watch it. Otherwise, he’s done nothing wrong, in my opinion.
rec’d
I absolutely agree with this post. Reke’d.
by Charles L. Pierro on Jul 8, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
In case you guys don't know
All proceeds gained from LeBron’s announcement is going to charity, not his pocket. I dunno how that’s douchebaggery.
Also, I would like to pop the bubble on where he's going
He’s going to Miami.
Several sources close to LeBron spilled the word this morning, plus LeBron is hosting a party in Miami, after his announcement, according to Yahoo!.
That is indeed the word...
And if that is a case then the NBA is becoming a joke… Small market teams draft and groom players to eventually move to large market team of their choice and compete for / win a title.
by OrangeLazarus on Jul 8, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Umm isnt that the way NBA’s been…You have the richie Rich teams who’s owners dont mind going over the luxury tax to try to put teams together, then you have teams that wanna find good players, and keep them in respectability..I look it just like the heat have just become the Yankees/Redsox of the NBA while the Kings are more like the A’s right now- A farm system for the Big Boys
Judgment day is coming!
I guess I shouldn’t write that fan post detailing “The Rise of Small Western Market Teams” in two seasons. OKC, Portland, Sacramento and Memphis might be the best teams in the conference in the not so distant future. Even have to say Utah losing Boozer still has more young talent than the Lakers and Suns. Spurs ought to be rebuilding and I’m sure Denver by than will have imploded.
...
I am not saying we won’t have good teams in the West, or even different good teams in the west. I am saying that if LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh all end up in Miami with multiyear contracts, it doesn’t matter what any other team does.
Since 83-84 there have been only 7 different teams to win a title. I don’t see any new ones getting added to the list any time soon.
by OrangeLazarus on Jul 8, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure I like that potential Miami line up yet. They will be good but three all stars and no role players hasn’t worked in the past.
All Stars?
All Stars? Dude… This is 3 of the top 10 players in the league with LeBron being #2 and Wade making the top 5. I think it is a little different. Really, who do you guard? Next season is going to be a joke…
by OrangeLazarus on Jul 8, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Who's # 1?
"So your a Yank? Thats ok, were all just people. People are all the same. But we like Canadians better." - Guy at the grocery store. "wow"
I hate to say this but...
Kobe is #1…
by OrangeLazarus on Jul 10, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Miami will be a joke when all is said and done.
anthony carter looks like he could be a great F.A. pick-up for the kings this year.
Ionno about that Memphis thing
And, naively, I’m gonna include the Clippers in that grouping.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
Agreed.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Agreed.
It’s just a pathetic attempt to NOT look like an egotistical douchenugget.
by caseycheesecake on Jul 8, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
I am gonna start calling him LeBron James Cameron, because he is like “Avatar.” Eye-candy and entertainment wrapped in self-absorbed, over-dramatized, substance-free hype.
Of course, he’s not talking to the media first-hand. He has cronies doing all of this for him so he can sit back and say, “It wasn’t me. It was all my peeps. I just did what’s best for me.”
But, he also allowed this to become an ego-driven circus of monumental proportions. I have a Nielson ratings box in my home, and I will not be watching, because I can’t justify giving this attention-whore more attention.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
I still feel like this Miami thing is a bait and switch and he'll go back to Cleveland
LeBron is way, way, way too savvy to have this special and then not go back to Cleveland.
Here's my question
If you’re going back to Cleveland, and you were gonna do that all along, why didn’t you, years ago, just say: “I’m staying in Cleveland,” and make that clear to everyone? Acting on the fence badly damaged the team there as Ferry desperately tried to build for today, instead of developing talent in the long term, because it was feared that if they couldn’t win a championship with him there, he would leave.
Technically he might have not made up his mind until recently. Here is my uneducated take on it.
I personally almost wonder if Lebron was trying to have the best of both worlds. Maybe he and Bosh and Wade (possibly Chris Paul) did make some sort of gentlemen’s agreement about joining together. But when it came time, Lebron didn’t want to screw over the Cleveland fans. So he tried to have the best of both worlds and see if Bosh would come over to Cleveland in a sign and trade.
If Lebron does choose Miami I would think it is because they did in fact originally strike an agreement (weird I know) to all play together. Lebron tried to manipulate it for his benefit in Cleveland but Bosh wasn’t going to have any of it. Maybe Bosh just loves paying less taxes or maybe he just felt like he made a promise that he intended to keep. It almost sounds like Bosh basically told Lebron that he was going to uphold his end of the deal and join Wade in Miami, the only place where under the cap all three can join together under good contracts. He basically let Lebron know he wasn’t backing out and giving Lebron the chance to make up his own mind whether he would join them or stay home.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Because dithering creates leverage
Obviously Cleveland was going to pay LeBron the max. But the fear of losing him caused two necessary and important things to happen: Brown and Ferry were shown the door, and he got a chance to see where the other pieces landed before finally making up his mind.
But he submarines Ferry from the start by dithering.
Who knows what sort of team Ferry might have built if the pressure to win now because Lebron might leave wasn’t there.
Pressure to win now?
They only had the best player in the league in his prime. WTF were they supposed to wait for? LeBron wasn’t the one who made them overpay Boobie and sit on their hands at the deadline last year and trade for a washed up Jameson. All of that happened because they wanted to win, not because LeBron might leave.
Lebron's leaving has been a sword above the heads of Cleveland's front office
ever since he signed that short extension. When he signed that short extension, he was strongly implying that whether or not he sticks around is conditional on the success of the team in the next couple years, so the front office there kept building for the next couple years.
So........
LeBron possibly leaving meant they felt pressure to create a winning team around him?
Yeah. What a horrible situation when people feel pressure to do their jobs.
Stranger things have happened I suppose.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Bron to Miami is bad for the league.
Bron to anywhere else is cool, but, seriously if he goes to Miami, I just hope to the gods of basketball cause implosions of unmatched proportions.
"We're trapped inside the matrix, forced to play our hand. We're filled with so much hatred, the kids don't stand a chance." -- B.o.B. (aka Bobby Ray).
by PhutureKings on Jul 8, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if a team of LBJ, Wade, Bosh
and 10 d-league players wins a championship. There are gonna be times when only one of those guys is on the floor with 4 other guys who can’t create their own shot and defenses are gonna eat them alive at that point. And if there’s an injury that only gets magnified.
He's leaving
Why would he do an hour long special to explain that he’s staying? He needs that hour to explain to the Cleveland fans why he’s leaving.
And, if you’re Lebron looking out West at the Lakers…do you really think you have a chance at beating them if you stay in Cleveland? The only team that has a chance at competing against the Lakers for the next three years is Wade, Lebron, and Bosh.
That's why I've always had a love/hate relationship with the NBA
Besides San Antonio, what other small market team has won a NBA Championship in the past 30 years? The league is built for teams like Los Angeles, Detroit, Miami, Boston, and Chicago to win championships. Hopefully this changes in the next five years with Durant in OKC and RekeDMC here.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Ultimately team success dictates if the player is willing to stay
because if the Kings are clearly near championship level, then resigning Evans won’t be so hard. He would want to stay to be a part of what is a winning culture.
Because as all NBA players will tell you, there’s only one thing sweeter than money.
Winning.
This.
I call BS
First, wonderful reporting and commentary Ziller. These past few days have me admiring your work even more.
I am calling BS as we fans seem to want it both ways. The detractors on this site would erase all of LBJs’ grand standing if he joined the Kings. The fans of will fan their fluttering hearts this season maybe next, and then, complain and wonder about the -- (fill in the blank) after that. (they haven’t won, they have won- now what?, why are ticket prices so high?).
Is there any love as fickle as that of a fan? How many LeBron tattoos are to be erased by Cavs fans? How many babies named LeBron are going by their middle names? Why is fan hate more enduring than fan love?
LeBron is nothing if courageous. Yup. Not brave, mind you, the rewards are much too great. He has flung open the door for this behavior to be an available weapon at every NBA bargaining table henceforth. Balance of power has been adjusted to little less overwhelming for Ownership. It will no longer have to be “just take the $$ and shut up”. As no one else has seen to do that (other than trade me demands) I gave LeBron some credit.
Lastly, the Cavs Gilbert response is so Vince McMahon. Two months ago LeBron was the toast of the town, a shining example of humanity. Today, he is the scum that scum scraps off of it’s shoes. Money can buy a lot of things but loyalty, not so much. I haven’ heard divorce referred to as “pretty” before, and I don’t think Cleveland and LaKing will change that.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 9, 2010 8:59 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with you..Would Gilbert have said he quit on them in the playoffs if he stick around, Would fans be burning his jersey if he stuck around. Gilbert is a kid who has just been told he can’t play in the game, so he’s telling all the rest of the the kids hes taking his ball home. The badmouthing is inexcusable and honestly Stern needs to do something about it.
Lebron didn’t promise the Cavs he was gonna stay with em, and like all other professional athlete’s he’s there to win and get his money. If he feels ownership isn’t doing him right(Which by this reaction by Gilbert) then he has the right to leave just like any other player in almost all other sports once his contracts up. Maybe he was mad that ownership didn’t try hard enough to get another free agent, maybe he’s mad about the new head coach, maybe they forgot the gummy worms at his locker.
Judgment day is coming!
I'm glad the Kings were never in the game for LeBron
Or Bosh really, but I could understand him some. I wouldn’t have minded courting Wade, but there was no way he would come to Sacramento with all the other options out there.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
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