The Decision and the Damage Done
by rbiegler on Jul 9, 2010 4:48 PM PDT
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PrintIt is an indication of just how bad, both in conception and execution, the LeBron James’ ESPN special was that a day later the only person who seems to be defending The Decision (and it should be noted defending The Decision is distinctly different than defending the decision) is Stuart Scott. A man so nihilistically, cynically dedicated to aggrandizing the celebrities he covers for the sake of his own self-aggrandizement that he makes Billy Bush blush. Multiple people, admittedly me included, are seemingly fine with the decision, understand the logic of a lifetime of harsh knees and harsher winters, know there is in Miami, in a backcourt of Wade and James, the potential for something transcendent, even if said transcendence is manufactured. LeBron out big timed the Big Apple. New York and its history and geography and basketball legacy were going to bring LeBron to the world. Instead LeBron, and Bosh, and Wade, brought the world to them. At, what most contend, is the expense of not just Cleveland but the global casual fan base that empathize with their loss. That is the supposed schadenfreude of last night’s announcement, the irony that LeBron James, in an attempt to solidify his brand-name, instead did his Christian name irreparable harm. He won’t be forgiven for what he did to Cleveland the thinking goes. He’ll never be able to go back to being LeBron. The reality, of course, is that this is wrong. He will and he can. Unless you’re from Cleveland.
The second most consistent, and easily most interesting, counterpoint comparison that has been made between LeBron and another NBA player in the last 22 or so hours is to Kobe Bryant. Kobe, they say, would never agree to play with a guy most see as a reputational rival. While LeBron is conducting fake interviews with a reporter with whom Kobe famously conducted fake interviews (good news for Cousins assuming Gray doesn’t use last night’s performance as a stepping stone to vacate Team Maloof for Team James) Kobe, they say, is probably in the gym, focusing on another title. Kobe, they say, successfully escaped Shaq’s shadow, while LeBron flees Cleveland to hide in Wade’s. And yet seven years ago, right around 4th of July weekend, it was Kobe Bryant, the newly christened moral protagonist to LeBron Inc.’s crass commercialism antagonist, who was out committing irreparable harm to his own career. It wasn’t necessarily the insinuated action itself that hurt Kobe, though that certainly didn’t help, it was the massively immature way he behaved subsequently; the expectation that his celebrity would be his acquittal; his overt willingness to throw Shaq under the bus; the gaudy gift for his wife. All of those actions shone a tone deaf, entitled brat suffering from a sort of eternal arrested development. Kobe’s could never redeem himself, they said. He could never escape the melodrama of his megalomania. He lost endorsers from Nutella to Sprite to Adidas. He caused a coach synonymous with Zen to so lose it he not only quit the following season but wrote a gossipy, name-calling, tell-all. He tasted Shaq’s ass. And yet seven years later he’s being presented as LeBron’s hard working, grounded inverse and LeBron is the new poster child for the permantely childish. Why? Because Kobe won.
We talk a lot about fans caring about athletes more than they care about us. That we’re forever left to be victims to their self-indulgence and self-entitlements. But the truth is athletes and fans both only care about one thing, winning. That’s why Cleveland is despondent today. Not because of what LeBron meant, but because of what LeBron’s leaving means. Irrelevance. Why are our favorite Kings Webber and Divac and Christie and not Salmons and Ellison and Moore? Because those guys won. Sure we have sentimental favorites. And sure we have sentimental memories about the All Stars. But most of those memories are tied to play-off games and moments that matter. A team that can transcend allows a fan base that cares for that team to feel the same way. It’s why so many look now at the “pact” as so callous. Suddenly basketball has its Yankees. And maybe there is some truth to that. But frankly as an objective fan of basketball I’m objectively excited for the Heat. And if they win the way they could win; if they put up 200 against the Wolves in January; if the no-look LeBron of lore and yore re-manifests with finishers like Wade and Bosh, our hostilities from a Thursday in July will diminish. What’s the old Angels in America quote “Nothing's lost forever. In this world there’s a kind of painful progress, longing for what we’ve left behind and dreaming ahead. At least that’s what I think."
And at least that's what I think. Unless you’re from Cleveland.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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The greatest damage LeBron has done was somehow making people forget that Kobe is the real villain
How in the hell could LeBron go from being a likable superstar to arch-villain in a few short months? He was so idiotic to do that special. If he had gone about this humbly Cleveland would never have forgive him, but a lot of other people would have accepted it.
That said, I find it utterly preposterous that I’m seeing people say with a straight face, “Kobe would never have done that.”
WTF?! Were you even alive during the mid-’00s? Kobe would have found a way to do much worse.
The alleged rape. Destroying the Kobe/Shaq dynasty. Nearly leaving for the Clippers (THE CLIPPERS), then re-signing with the Lakers, then missing the playoffs, then petulantly demanding a trade, then recanting, then refusing to shoot during the second half of a game 7 blowout just to prove a point, wanting to be called the Mamba, then riding the idiocy of Chris Wallace to two championships, the second of which he was the second best player on his own team.
The Michael Jordan imitation interviews, the fake intensity, the overlaughing where he tries to make it look like his teammates like him, the clenched jaw face….
If another person says “Kobe would never have done what LeBron did” I seriously may lose it.
by nbrans on Jul 9, 2010 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 10 recs
I don't care if you like Kobe or not,
The fact is that he is much more competitive than LeBron ever will be and has exponentially more heart than LeBron ever will.
Bringing up the rape is laughable, by the way.
Kobe WOULD NOT have done that. Go ahead and ‘lose it’.
Honestly, this is completely ridiculous
LeBron is being called out for what, for quitting in a playoff series he wasn’t going to win (which Kobe has done) and changing teams (which Kobe would have done if he had his way)?
Heart didn’t get Kobe to the playoffs when his teammates sucked.
by nbrans on Jul 9, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
This might be totally wrong but oh well
I almost get the feeling that after Kobe lost all the endorsements after the whole Colorado thing and then won again years later that people almost somehow consider him more “real.” As in “Oh it’s not fake like Lebron’s act. Kobe is really insanely competive and I respect that.” They don’t see him doing all the Sprite and McDonalds ads like he did in the past. I know I have seen some high profile Nike ads over the last few years but I don’t recall it being anything like before the Colorado allegations.
I almost feel like the over exposure of Lebron in the media and his brand has created an insanely high standard for him. Maybe not a high standard but maybe it has basically lifted up to such great heights in popular culture that if he made one small step that was not in line with the Lebron myth we see in the adds, people were just waiting to tear him back down.
I know I personally have been annoyed with the Lebron brand for some time now and really thought it was ridiculous the way he set up that special. That being said though … I mean come on that isn’t the end of the world. He was a free agent. He didn’t owe anybody. I don’t really care about his legacy in the end. If he can’t reach the heights of MJ so what.
I just
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
That may well be a part of it
Part of it also is that people have short memories, especially in sports. We’re a “what have you done for me lately” culture already, and in sports even moreso. Kobe’s coming off a championship, LeBron’s coming off a disappointing playoffs and some overly-contrived hype. So people are comparing 2010 Kobe to 2010 LeBron, which I suppose is partially fair, but doesn’t tell the whole story at all. People seem to have already forgotten the ridiculousness in Kobe’s past, which in my opinion far far surpasses anything LeBron has done.
In the long term I think LeBron will be fine. He looked pretty shellshocked today, and I think he’s smart enough to learn from this. He made the best basketball decision possible and left loads of money on the table in the form of salary and probably endorsements too. For someone who has been accused of being solely about building wealth, it wasn’t a great short term decision. It was a basketball move, pure and simple. And if they start winning championships people will be breaking their necks to jump on the bandwagon.
by nbrans on Jul 9, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am actually pretty amazed though how everyone is acting like it would be okay if he went to NY or Chicago
Okay maybe not everyone but I have read a few articles that suggested this. It’s odd to me. Why do I care about Lebron’s legacy of being so great he single handily brought a championship to one of those towns? I don’t know. On one hand people are saying what he did was horrible to Cleveland yet at the same time it’s okay if he up and went to New York or Chicago?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
To me, it's not about why he left Cleveland, it's how he left Cleveland.
Who can blame him for taking less money to have a better shot at winning? Most of us usually enjoy watching a player show that it isn’t all about the money.
Lebron is apparently OK with watching his stats dwindle, giving up some all-time scoring records, and is comfortable knowing that he won’t be compared to MJ because he joined the South Beach, manufactured Dream Team. It seems to go against his previous statements that he wants to be a billionaire athlete, make himself into a brand, blah, blah, blah. But whatever.
The problem I have with it is that he strung Cleveland along until all the major FA’s were off the market, went onto national television, and dumped them. He made his free agency a bigger deal than it needed to be and now Cleveland is stuck trying to fill the void that the best player in the world left.
Had he issued a statement on July 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th that said he was going to sign with Chi, NY, NJ, Miami, or LAC, I would’ve been fine with it. He was a free agent and could do what he wanted. But Instead, he waited for Wade and Bosh to decide what they were going to do, called up ESPN and asked for a one hour time slot to announce “The Decision.” After all that, to me, the only right answer to Jim Gray’s question was “Cleveland.”
by blako on Jul 9, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
very well said. Although Dan Gilbert was almost as classless with his letter, I was blown away that he said LeBron didn’t talk to him since the playoffs ended, even though gilbert tried. Also, not even talking to Izzo was also a jerk move. He showed no regard for others throughout the ENTIRE process.
I am also slightly surprised he chose miami if he really wants to win. I can’t picture that it is honestly a better fit than Chicago or even New Jersey if Favors develops. He’d have an all-star point guard and two dominant bigs at either of those places, and better role players around him.
exactly
the second he knew he wasn’t going back, HE should have called the Cavs and told them that. He at least owed the Cavs that much. Now all the major FA’s are gone, and Cleveland’s stuck. Complete selfishness, IMO.
Isn't that Cleveland's fault?
They should have been operating on worst case scenario and talking to the other free agents. And if what Gilbert has subsequently said about LeBron is true, I’m failing to understand why the Cavs didn’t immediately renounce his rights and pursue other free agents?
P.S. Other “big name” free agents weren’t coming to Cleveland if LeBron wasn’t there.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I think
Gilbert’s at fault for letting Lebron get away with murder while he was a Cav. Also, you’re right. If Gilbert is correct, he should have forgot about re-signing him and went for someone else. Even though I do agree that no one would end up there, the opportunity of bidding for someone like Amare or Joe Johnson is better than having to bid on Josh Howard or Nate Robinson.
But as far as Lebron letting the Cavs know at 6:01p that he’s not returning …. I think that’s clearly Lebron’s fault. He brought up, "well if they ever got rid of me … " That would be the equivalent of the Cavs releasing Lebron one day before the regular season started, IMO. That wouldn’t be cool either.
Yeah, he definitely handled "The Decision" poorly
At the very least, LeBron needs better advisors.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I'd trade a bit of public opinion for the chance to earn 2.5 million for a worthwhile charity.
So, yeah he didn’t come out of this as a winner(PR wise). But if his goal was to maximize the cash going to his selected charity, I’d say it was a success.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 10, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he actually thought the money to charity would make up for the Cleveland breakup
Like Cleveland fans would say “He ruined our franchise and dumped us on national TV….but he’s doing so much good for the kids!”. He definitely needs better advisors, because he doesn’t have a clue sometimes.
For the record, though. The money to charity is great. It’s far more important than anything we debate on here, and that has really been lost in the coverage of this whole thing.
I think that
would have worked if he actually told the Cavs, when he actually knew he wanted to leave, that he was leaving. It would have come off a lot more professional to call the Cavs that morning (since he said he after talking to his mom that morning he was leaving) and say, “it’s been good, thanks, but I wanna move onto other opportunities.”
But instead, he left them in the dark, and now no one cares that he basically got 2.5 mil into the pockets of the Boys and Girls club, which sucks for him.
Wouldn't have really worked though.
If he told the Cavs that morning that he was leaving, then it would have leaked with 100% certainty, and it wouldn’t have gotten the ratings, and thus as much money for charity, that it did. Not defending The Decision, I’m just saying.
The 2.5 million was probably on condition that he reveal the decision on air.
If he’d called the Cavs it likely would have leaked and cost the charity the cash. So weigh a billionaire’s feelings vs. a needy charity. Easy decision for me.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 10, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he may have thought that. If he did he was foolish.
But, he was going to Miami. He was going to be ripped by many, no matter what he did.. Getting some cash for the kids out of the deal isn’t a bad thing, imo.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 10, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree. He'd have been ripped no matter what he did.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 10, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
He would have been ripped hard for leaving.
From people like me. Or the Ken Berger’s of the world. Or Brian Windhorst’s and the like. But many people have been less harsh towards LeBron but ripped him for the decision to do it the way he did.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And he'd have been ripped if he'd stayed and he'd have been ripped
if he had gone to play baseball and he’d have been ripped if he’d cried and he’d have been ripped if he’d gone to NY. etc. etc. etc.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 10, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
He would have been ripped hard either way. I'm not arguing the point.
But he wouldn’t have been ripped for his legacy and quitting Cleveland. That’s the damning point here. All the other stuff is essentially for being a drama whore. Which, is nothing new on the LeBron meter.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed. He would not have been ripped for leaving Cleveland by most people.
Personally, I think he would have been foolish to remain in Cleveland. He was ripped for how he did it. It was more important for him to get his hour on the air, than to handle his departure from Cleveland with more decorum. He could have handled that hour any way he wanted. For instance, he could have drawn out the drama of his response, by first telling the world that he was leaving Cleveland. He could made a statement giving his thanks and appreciation to Cleveland, before revealing where he was going. It still would have been cheesy, but better than how he handled it.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
He didn’t reveal anything to Cleveland because he wanted all eyes on his hour special. Hence he’s taking a lot of heat for that.
That is certainly one possibility.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Oh I know he
would have gotten ripped, just not as bad. I don’t think people would be attacking him personally so much.
For the record, it's going to the Boys and Girls club in Greenwich, Connecticut
which is one of the richest communities in the country. Not that giving to an already-privileged community is a bad thing, but it does further indicate a pretty stunning tone-deafness. If this was really about magnanimity, wouldn’t it have been best to give to kids in Northeast Ohio?
No kidding
if I were on his “team” … I’d tell him to take that 2.5 mil and give it to a Cleveland charity. Might look better to people outside of Cleveland (if he truly cares at all).
But what’s done is done … after all this, I still think he’ll be fine in 2-3 years, except in Cleveland, of course.
Now he's a bigger dick
If had just returned Petrie’s call Sacramento’s Boys and Girls club would have gotten a piece.
Agree
Gilbert is to blame for allowing LeBron to sign off on trades, bring his buddies along for road trips at Gilbert’s expense, hiring a masseuse for Lebron etc. However, Gilbert was stuck between a rock and a hard spot. Do you really renounce rights to the best player in the world, the only big name free agent that is considering signing with your small market franchise?
It sounds like Gilbert put up with a lot of sh*t from LeBron because he thought he had to in order to re-sign him, and when he got burned on national television, he decided to rip him. Gilbert’s letter/actions were childish but I don’t know how much differently I would have done things if I were in his shoes and watched the value of my franchise drop by up to 50% in about an hour.
Yes. It does sound like he put up with a lot of shit from LeBron.
It is a lot like a man who did a lot of things and spent a lot of money on a woman, only to watch her leave for another man.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
The Cavs couldn't exactly court big name FA's with the mid level
Which is all the Cavs could offer any prospective FA. Now they have cap room, but at the time with LeBron’s Bird Rights they had no cap room to offer a FA more than the mid level.
Now, with the trade exception coming from Miami it’s a bit different too. Unless the Cavs renounce the TPE, they still won’t have cap room.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Couldn't they have renounced him from the start?
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
not really
If they had renounced him from the start then they would have eliminated both the sign and trade possibility and the ability to offer him six years, which would have taken them out of the race for his services altogether. So renouncing his bird rights would have essentially meant not pursuing him.
Yup. Pretty much.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But they claimed early on (yes, I know this was posturing) that they weren't willing to do a sign-and-trade
And your last sentence is actually my point. If Gilbert hated LeBron to the level that he’s subsequently shown – why would he want to keep the guy?
I’d have more respect for Gilbert if he’d renounced LeBron from the start and ripped him THEN. Or saying he didn’t want him back but was willing to do a sign-and-trade so his franchise could get something back.
Doing it after the fact (and after he’d been hoping to bring LeBron back) is what’s preventing me from feeling bad for Gilbert. The guy was willing to sell his soul to the devil AGAIN, and now he’s righteous?
My ass.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
You always do this
Who has claimed that Gilbert is righteous? You keep making up these strawman arguments to rail against.
Outside Cleveland’s fan base no one is applauding his letter.
Oh please
Outside Cleveland’s fan base no one is applauding his letter.
Did you read the fanshots on his letter? I’d bet at least 80% of the replies from the StR crowd supported the letter.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
Understanding where the letter was coming from.
Now one is applauding the behavior nor claiming that action is the righteous thing to do.
No one? Really?
Ok then.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I would disagree with this just because in reality people often want to give themselves a chance to back out of big plans like this until the very last possible minute.
I have a hard time seeing him being 100% sure until coming up pretty close to the special. That being said though, that might be a sign that the whole one hour special is a dumb idea in the first place.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I just went
with what he said. he said when he woke up that morning he knew what he’d do. If he said differently, my opinion would probably be different.
ridiculous comparing the cavs and lakers
We will see this year but I bet the Cavs dont win 30 games without LeBron. The Lakers without Kobe win 50+ games. The Cavs best big man Jamison isnt close to as good as the Lakers big man off the bench (Odom).
Kobe is a way bigger prick than LeBron could ever be. His own teammates hate him. Having a better team and getting his way makes Kobe more competitive?
I agree LeBron handled the situation terribly, I think he regretted doing the special as soon as it started, you could see it in his face and him sitting there how uncomfortable he was.
On a side note I can see Shaq making his way back to Miami now. They need a C to let Bosh play PF. He doesnt need any cash and he never likes to be far from the spotlight and another cheap ring.
by OKO on Jul 9, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, but they'd beat the shit out of the Cavs minus LeBron
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
a team of gasol actually being the first option
along with bynum, odumb, artest and a quality point guard actually feeding the post, could easily win 50 games
you only see flashes of how great gasol is, due to the gunning of the volume shooting rapist
by lchristmas on Jul 10, 2010 10:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That's mostly cuz Gasol isn't that assertive.
He’s not a real franchise player. While I dislike LeBron James, I never liked Gasol much better. It’s amazing I like any player.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Jason Smith
yeah.
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
Tim Duncan Chris Paul Dwight Howard Kobe Bryant (although not nearly as much as I once did)...
…..Carmelo Anthony to an extent, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Yao Ming, Manu Ginobili, Andrew Bogut, Brandon Roy among others.
I like other players too, but they aren’t major league stars.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Right up there with Abraham Martin & John.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I forgot about Durant cuz he just didn't enter my mind at the moment.....
…..and Tyreke is in there too. Curry as well, and hopefully Blake Griffin. Westbrook is another guy I like, and I have a feeling I’ll be liking Wesley Johnson soon. John Wall, Derrick Favors and maybe DMC joins them.
It’s not that hard to really make my list.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To what extent do you like Carmello?
He really looks like the odd one out on that list.
Assuming Kobe was a typo for Korver.
Dunking Dutchman
They push themselves and their teams to better things.
Nooen is perfect, including them, but they do push their teams. I don’t think LeBron has. Never will really.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Talent gets you a lot of things in the NBA. Talent is king after all.
LeBron has so much talent that it creates the illusion that he’s doing more than he really is to push his teams to win games.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree with you.
I also agree with an earlier comment you made that D-Wade will be the leader in Miami.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
He must be David fucking Copperfield then
Cause it looked to me that he pushed a team of scrubs to 60 plus wins a couple times. Quite the illusion.
Taught him everything he knows
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jul 10, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Good analogy actually.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We may even see them tanking for the lottery.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Oh the Cavs organization would never do a thing like that ;)
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
amen
I don’t care for much of Kobe’s antics, his desire to be like MJ, and he can be a bit of a phony. Will he pout and and be a dick to his teammates well yeh!. Having said all that you know that he wants to win rings and to be seen as one of the greatest players ever. He played through the last season with an injury that needed surgery, but he didn’t get it as that would have meant missing games and losing a chance to win another title
The fact that Kobe is a dick, most great players are to their teammates, its about winning if Lebron can’t to that in Miami imagine the pressure he will feel then.
I understand why he left, he and his team handled it really badly, I think he was always going to leave, had he told Cleveland what was up and put a letter the Plain Dealer saying thanks, the fans wouldn’t have liked it but I think they would have understood. Putting on the show last night was just awful
No, he would not have done that.
Probably because he wouldn’t have been as trusting and naive, being the pr!ck he is, to expect a decent response. LeBron clearly expected that people would understand and appreciate his honesty. He was honest. He didn’t share everything, but he was honest. I respect that.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I didn't feel that LeBron came across as all that honest. As you point out, there were things he didn't share.
Omissions are a form of lying. I did not think he was very forthcoming on a number of questions, particularly the one pertaining to when he made up his mind about his decision.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I am not the only one to think LeBron was less than forthcoming:
4. When Gray asks LeBron, “Was it always your plan to play with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh?” watch as he hedges for a second in between the words ‘Well," and “I mean,” before answering, "Well, I mean, I’m looking forward to it. To say it was always in my plans, I can’t say it was always in my plans because I never thought it was possible." In that one little hedging moment he starts, ever so slightly, to smile. And everybody knew what that smile meant: it meant, “What the fuck do you think? Of course, we’ve been planning this for years.” So he smiles, giving the deal away completely, then instantly switches gears and just turbo-lies right into the camera. I thought: this is just like politics! A terrible, totally unskilled liar, telling a completely transparent lie, who then improbably gets let off the hook by the sycophantic moron interviewing him. What is it about this story we love so much?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Time heals all wounds
Lakers 2004-05 go 34-48 with Bryant.
Lakers 2005-06 go 45-37 with Bryant.
Lakers 2006-07 go 42-40 with Bryant.
Much of this was perpetuated because the great “competitor” issued a “him or me” proclomation to the L*kers in regards to Shaq. Over the years, there has been talk from time to time (baseless or not) of Kobe going into the tank, Kobe not caring about anyone but himself, Kobe wanting out of LA. All of that seems like a lifetime ago.
The above mentioned years covers Kobe Bryant age 26-28. LeBron James is currently 25. Several years from now, today will be a lifetime ago (Cavs fans notwithstanding).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jul 9, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
(read with drunken Joe Namath voice)
I wanna kiss you…
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
So I guess we know what you're doing Saturday night:
1. Geting drunk with rbiegler.
2. Propositioning Section.
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
Every Saturday night
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Things change quick
See Martin, Kevin.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I am with you.
Good stuff. He chose to go where he can win. He hates losing as do all competitive people do. Why is that so hard to understand.
And the Lebron hate is just ridiculous. I don’t understand it at all. The dude isn’t a bad person.. Unless you are from Cleveland.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Or dislike world-class self-aggrandizement.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jul 9, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn't just self-aggrandizement
The media has hyped him and the Cavs hyped him so to lay it all at his feet is a bit much. Sure there is some ownership there, but I would rather see a bit more realism. Not some version of reality so far fetched.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
His nickname is 'King James'...
The guy isn’t exactly meek either. Did you see the interview he had during the complete farce of a welcoming interview the Heat had?
"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"
Lame
So instead of taking it upon himself to bring an organization to a title, he has to encourage two years of salary dumping for a handful of teams and bring in two superstars with him. Cleveland didn’t have the cap room to do what Miami did because they were trying to win and keep Lebron happy so he would stay. They could have dumped cap room too if they were going to lose him because they didn’t, but they chose to be loyal. Lebron went and Boozers them for it.
The NBA was already the WWE though, with David Stern and his fixers…. doesn’t matter to a team like the Kings, where we wil always be down on the lottery and iced by the refs in the playoffs, if we get there.
So now it's LeBron's fault that certain teams dumped salary?
What’s next – the Kennedy assasinations?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Well it would explain why he looks so much older than his listed age.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Was Oden the second shooter?
Then the X-Files being, looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan with Isabella Rossellini lips and breath that reeked of vanilla Chig Champa,
did a slow-mo Matrix descent out of the butt end of the banana vessel and hovered above my bug-eyes, my gaping jaw, and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip and all I could think was: "I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice that I pissed my f***in' pants."
Yeah he shot Oswald.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wow
Well played.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ouch
Then the X-Files being, looking like some kind of blue-green Jackie Chan with Isabella Rossellini lips and breath that reeked of vanilla Chig Champa,
did a slow-mo Matrix descent out of the butt end of the banana vessel and hovered above my bug-eyes, my gaping jaw, and my sweaty L. Ron Hubbard upper lip and all I could think was: "I hope Uncle Martin here doesn't notice that I pissed my f***in' pants."
by kangsfan on Jul 10, 2010 2:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Possibly the single most disgusting part of this entire fiasco is
The fact that newly-minted Kings family member, Jim Gray, did not interview LeBron as a member of the media. he interviewed James as an employee of the person he interviewed,
“Are you still biting your nails, boss?”
Welcome to journalism in the age of monopolization. I can’t wait til Gray leaves Sacramento for greener pastures, and I hope the door does hit him in the ass when he does.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jul 9, 2010 5:41 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
It shows me that he felt that even the fawning turds at ESPN couldn't be trusted to get enough of James' balls in their mouth.
Which everyone knows is utterly impossible.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jul 9, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, he wants to control his own message.
I don’t blame him. Though I do blame him for it sucking so bad. The direction and production of it were just crap.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I care. It was a fake interview, which gave LeBron control of the questions.
It was an orchestrated dialogue leading up to the big exciting climax.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I can’t wait til Gray leaves Sacramento for greener pastures, and I hope the door does hit him in the ass when he does.
You and me both.
I saw Gray on Charlie Rose about a week ago. He was introduced as an employee of the Kings organization. It made me want to vomit.
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
This
He’ll never be able to go back to being LeBron. The reality, of course, is that this is wrong. He will and he can.
having watched the party he looked like a man torn between two loves
Better yet a man who just broke up with his girl of 7 years, so he could move in with his two best buds, only to realize that now he misses that girl.
that wouldn't surprise me
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Not sure that it's "he misses that girl"
Maybe he’s just freaking out a bit because all the girl’s friends just trashed his house, his car and are waiting outside.
Don't say stupid shit. You won’t be perceived as stupid. - pookeyguru
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 9, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I doubt if he is missing "that girl."
He is probably thinking about all the bad press he received as a consequence of “The Decision.” He thought that he was going to come off as the big hero. Wade and Bosh, on the other hand, look delighted.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
This is a great picture for some captions.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Caption
Lebron thinks to himself. ‘They are not going to burn this jersey… Damn, can’t believe that"
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I like the road and alternate jerseys
The white home jerseys are pretty ugly though.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Since most bandwagon casual fans...
Love Kobe even though he admitted his rape victim did not consent, I would assume Lebron is off the hook at some point, in today’s contrived and manufactured NBA/WWE.
Personal feelings about Kobe and LeBron aside
that was a provacative, literate, and engaging post. Easily one the best I’ve read in quite a while. Well played, sir. More please!
All honesty
If…and I say IF…the Lakers and Heat meet in the Finals who do we root for? Who is the lesser of the two evils?
F#ck Kobe Bryant.
F#ck Shaquille O’Neal
F#ck Phil Jackson
F#ck Rick Fox (twice)
F#ck Sasha Vujacic
F#ck Robert Horry
F#ck Derek Fisher
F#ck Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney and Ted Bernhardt – I’m still waiting for them to have their jerseys retired at Staples.
F#ck Every Laker fan who comes to Arco Arena, wears his hat sideways and stands up and cheers with his arms out and his back to the floor whenever Kobe scores a basket.
Oh, and F#ck Jack Nicholson, Dyan Cannon, and that silver haired douchebag wearing the snakeskin boots.
Who’d I miss?
by B-RAD on Jul 9, 2010 9:46 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
The Heat for me
The L*kers and Celtics remain my least two favorite teams. And to tell you the truth, I think that SVG and Otis Smith are a pair of jag-offs, so I’ll probably root for the Heat over Orlando, too.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jul 9, 2010 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Heat
It took me 0.03 seconds to decide that one.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 9, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely the Heat. Not close.
There’s no history of bad blood between Sac and Miami, and I sincerely doubt Heat fans will be as omnipresent or as annoying as Lakers fans.
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
B-RAD
See your signature.
Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster". Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jul 10, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow that's a tough call.
Can both lose?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Heat. Period.
There will never be a scenario where I will root for the Fakers. It’s just not possible.
RIP, Coach Wooden.
Thank you, Geoff Petrie.
by JETisKing on Jul 10, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
All honesty
If…and I say IF…the Lakers and Heat meet in the Finals who do we root for? Who is the lesser of the two evils?
F#ck Kobe Bryant.
F#ck Shaquille O’Neal
F#ck Phil Jackson
F#ck Rick Fox (twice)
F#ck Sasha Vujacic
F#ck Robert Horry
F#ck Derek Fisher
F#ck Dick Bavetta, Bob Delaney and Ted Bernhardt – I’m still waiting for them to have their jerseys retired at Staples.
F#ck Every Laker fan who comes to Arco Arena, wears his hat sideways and stands up and cheers with his arms out and his back to the floor whenever Kobe scores a basket.
Oh, and F#ck Jack Nicholson, Dyan Cannon, and that silver haired douchebag wearing the snakeskin boots.
Who’d I miss?
by B-RAD on Jul 9, 2010 9:59 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Is there anybody out there that was previously a Lebron fan that now hates him?
Anybody? I doubt it. All this incident did was give people that hated Lebron before something to talk about. Anybody that makes more of this than that is either full of shit or just really good at convincing themselves of whatever they want to believe in.
Of course.
That was directed at the people here that are pretending that this incident ruined his legacy, when they have really just hated him all along. I haven’t found one person that liked him before that doesn’t now.
I didn't like LeBron then or now.
He ruined his basketball legacy IMO. You don’t like that? So what.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
For this to have ruined his legacy, it would have to have changed someone's opinion about him.
And I have yet to see any evidence that it did.
His legacy is what it is.
My opinion of LeBron has nothing to do with his legacy. I hate and, in many ways still do, Michael Jordan. But his legacy is always going to be what it is: A basketball brawler who earned everything he got on the court. He earned his stripes and took it on the chin and kept coming. LeBron just quit.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And this goes back to things like shaking hands and the dunk contest.
Not important things in of itself, but LeBron James has never understood the need to respect the game or pay your dues. He never thought he had to do any of it. The backlash, that he never saw coming because he’s a deluded tool, was a long time coming if he left Cleveland.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Your opinion of his legacy is obvious.
All I’m saying is that your opinion hasn’t changed, and not many other (or even any that I’ve seen) opinions have changed either, so it’s pretty disingenuous to say that this incident ruined his legacy. All this little sideshow did was give those that already hated him something to talk about.
No my opinion of his legacy on the court has changed.
That’s my point. That’s what you don’t get.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
His "legacy" is essentially the aggregate of everyone's opinion of him.
And if those opinions haven’t changed, then his legacy hasn’t changed. That’s my point. That’s what you don’t get.
Jordan's legacy isn't the opinion.
It was the journey he took over his career to be successful. That’s what you don’t get.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You really don't understand what a legacy is
Legacy: something handed down or received from an ancestor or predecessor
All athletes leave behind when they retire are the memories of their accomplishments and the impression they made on people. Since there is no universally agreed upon measure of the accomplishments of individual athletes in team sports, their legacy is based on our perception of what they accomplished and/or what kind of person/athlete they were during their careers.
Jordan’s legacy is based on our impression/opinion of him and his accomplishments, just like everyone else’s. Most people (including me) consider his scoring titles, numerous MVP’s and championships more important than the fact that he frequently acted like an abusive dick to teammates, cheated on his wife, punched Steve Kerr in the face, and drafted Kwame Brown. I’m betting that most people will also consider Lebron’s MVP awards, scoring titles, and whatever else he accomplishes on the basketball court throughout his career to be more important than the way that he announced which team he would play for.
my opinion of him has changed in 2 ways
as a person, he previously seemed ok. I was always put off by the “king james” and “chosen one” bullshit, but, advertising, so whatever
its now apparent that he really is that much of an arrogant dick in real life, and he went out of his way to dicktease and then crush a downtrodden fanbase that has done nothing but worship him since middle school so he could “um, take his talents, um, to south beach”
as a ballplayer, I saw him as a franchise player and possible rival for the all-time greats who could carry a team to multiple championships
he doesn’t even see himself that way, so how could anyone else anymore?
and this started for me on the court when he quit and went out like a little bitch against the celtics. the failure to even go down swinging was inexcusable
that, and “the decision” to go gravy-train second banana, has killed his legacy not to mention his current rep…
heat/(redacted), i’m rooting for the long-overdue staples center meteor…
by lchristmas on Jul 10, 2010 10:06 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This.
I tend to agree with you that he went out of his way to dangle Cleveland, fully intending to crush them. If he felt bad for leaving Cleveland, there were so many times along the way, including his appearance on “The Decision” to make his anguish about leaving Cleveland known. There was none of that. Nothing, nada, fini. No goodbye, no thank you, no I wish you all the best. These are not the actions of a man who appreciated his former fan base or the franchise that bent over backward for him for seven years.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
He definitely ruined the Hometown Hero angle which is the legacy or myth every single one of his advertisers was banking on.
Well that one and “The Chosen One.” I honestly don’t think those are going to be his story arch anymore. (By the way, this marketing crap is seriously turning these guys into comic book characters. Totally devoid of reality.)
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Wade's real. Bosh is real.
Boozer is real even though he’s a dipshit in his own real obnoxious way. Amare is totally comic bookish but that’s mostly in the way he carries himself than anything else.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wade is a bit of a comic book character to me.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I can see that. Bosh is too vanilla though.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would pay to see someone call Bosh "vanilla" to his face.
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
I recall Shaq calling Bosh either “soft” or “girlie” and not many people came to Bosh’s defense. If I had to pick a PF to insult to his face that might be the one I’d hedge my bets on.
I think Shaq called Bosh "the RuPaul of big men"
something very close to that
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
Here is a link for that.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Stan Van
I am historically not a petty person. But I will admit freely here that I detest Stan Van Gundy with every aching fiber in my body. He fucked this team over royally at a time when they least needed it and so blindsided them with his Kinkos dark of night abandonment that it lead to the Theus era, the darkest of dark ages in our collective memories (with the exception of Section, who suffered through Dick Motta). I don’t dispute the factor that Orlando was, and is, the more appealing place to coach given the roster and his proximity to his family, but his, and Otis Smith’s, self-righteousness in general and post LeBron in particular, actually makes me kind of happy that they now have to worry about being beat by the team that unceremoniously dumped and embarrassed Van Gundy a few years ago. Primaily because he unceremoniously dumped and embarrassed Sacramento when they were they went out of their way, and out on a limb, to recruit his ass.
last sentence
should more accurately read something like “Primarily because he unceremoniously dumped and embarrassed Sacramento when they went out of their way, and out on a limb, to recruit his ass.”
Smith is also the guy
that publicly stated that Petrie wanted Turkoglu, but that GP was only offering “crap.” Otis Smith is a bitch.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Let's be honest
Otis Smith is the bitch
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I always felt that because of the Maloofs misguided attempts to dress-up and play Petrie and and all of our knowing the consequences of that and expressing our subsequent frustrations we were way too forgiving of Van Gundy. He was never going to win a championship in Sacramento. But he’s now not winning one in Orlando either.
I’m buying a Heat hat.
Should we ever meet, I'm buying you a drink
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You should buy a Magic hat.
And then burn it.
"I feel ten feet tall right now...and strong as an ox!"
This is THE PERFECT way to sum it up for me
Defending The Decision is distinctively different from defending the decision
This is exactly how I feel. I live the team he chose and why (at least my perception as to why), but I think how he did it was lame. Not nearly as lame as people are making it out to be, but lame none the less.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 9, 2010 10:30 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am with you.
Pathetic attempt to capitalize on a decision that meant so much to so many. Sadly, LeBron thought he was doing something good for his brand.
Truth is, on talent alone, and nothing else, I’d rank DMC 1st.
PookeyGuru- June 1, 2010.
***Update***
Cousins can be a major star.
PookeyGuru- June 23, 2010.
His brand is all but destroyed now.
Sure he’ll still sell stuff now, but the Heat aren’t his team. He’s not “The Man” anymore.
Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster". Follow me on Twitter here.
Yeah that is where I am at too
Well plus the fact I was never the biggest fan but that really is neither here nor there.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
The Decision.
Please tell me what you think. Today at work while reading countless stories online pertaining to Lebron. From being a coward, to not being a leader, to ruining his legacy, etc. A thought crossed my mind regarding the absurdity of why he chose to reveal his choice of a team using, “The Decision” on ESPN. Do you think that when Lebron or whoever within his group birthed the idea of this show that it was with the intention of him returning to Cleveland? Then after it was promoted he changed his mind? Nobody in their right mind that had a sliver of kinship to a team, city, state (as Lebron seemed to have for Cleveland) would ever put their team/fans in a postion to not only endure what Cleveland had to due to the broadcast, but also string the organization along and not give them the opportunity to explore options with other free agents? It was reported that even A’mare would only sign with NY if it was a sign and trade so Phoenix would get something in return.
Just a thought…
Dont confuse activity with achievement.
One point
Why couldn’t Cleveland have explored options with other free agents? Especially if Gilbert really hated LeBron as much as he says.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
Because they couldn't Otis.
They tied up all their cap room in various players (including Varejao, Williams) to improve the roster to entice LeBron to stay.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I guess my point is
That you can’t fault LeBron for Cleveland’s inability to pursue “other” free agents during this period.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I can when he pushed Cleveland to sign Ilgauskas, Hughes, trade for Williams, O'Neal and Jamison.
All moves that kept Cleveland from playing in this year’s FA race.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well they should have told him NO
They run a franchise, if they didn’t feel comfortable with the signings they shouldn’t have made them.
Either way, it’s turned out disastrously for Cleveland. If they had made their own choices (I still don’t know if I believe LeBron pushed all the buttons here), maybe they put a team together that wins a title – and LeBron stays.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
I agree with you on one part - the franchise should have told LeBron, "no."
However, LeBron kept Cleveland dangling, when he could have told them that he was not returning.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
He didn't have to tell them anything
He was a free agent. He played out his contract. He was allowed to shop his wares, and he could let his suitors know when he’d made his decision.
Chris Broussard made a rare (for him) relevant point. Owners and general managers have a habit of not being forthright about player moves. One day they say they have no plans on trading a guy, and a week later he’s gone (hello Kevin Martin).
And I don’t have a problem with that – it’s the way the business works. But if the owners are going to play by their rules, they have to play by the player’s rules as well.
Please, for the love of god - someone take the gas can out of Dan Gilbert's hand!
by otis29 on Jul 11, 2010 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, he was not obligated to tell them.
Afterall, LeBron has always maintained that basketball is a business. In your words, it’s the way the business works.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I can when he pushed Cleveland to sign Ilgauskas, Hughes, trade for Williams, O'Neal and Jamison.
All moves that kept Cleveland from playing in this year’s FA race.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Enjoyed it Rb
Don’t agree, obviously, but enjoyed it nonetheless.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I understand the hate, because humans are a selfish race by default
Instead of thanking him for giving them the best chance a team could had to win a title, they all rip him, including the owner.
The team had LeBron, the greatest talent ever, for 7 years and they didn’t manage to create a team around him and win. They only brought in a bunch of average role players and 2 over-aged all stars last year. We’re not in the 80s and 90s anymore when you can take over with one superstar. The speed and the strength of the game has multiplied. The Cavaliers management has shown the world the definition of “fail”.
And yes of course, LeBron is an egoistic self centered bastard for making a show out of all this (a show he didn’t even execute well), but he made the right choice. This is the best trio ever in basketball and I’m glad it happened during my NBA-watching-prime.
Any record worse than 72-10 is of course a failure.
by ZenBaller on Jul 10, 2010 4:21 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
True but
You don’t think Labron was not consulted on any of these moves or had some input. I’m sure there were some players here the Labron wanted and got signed because he wanted them. No he hasn’t won its the teams fault?
I think it would be great to have a real time best player real time NBA draft with the 30 best players acting as GMs and drafting the other players, then you would see how much these guys know about talent and who can play together
I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere
but does anyone else think it’s funny that the guy who got the most money this Free Agent season was Joe Johnson?
by Dub_TC on Jul 10, 2010 7:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It was like everyone went, Huh?
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
Ha, I hadn't actually thought about it.
Crazy business.
Wow, I did not realize that.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I knew it but I didn't think about it in that context.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
A big reason is years
JJ has been in the NBA 2 more years than Wade/Bosh/James. That’s the main reason why.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What is the difference between the Gorbachov regime and a professional sports fan?
Sports fans are fickle suckers…
Ok, a stretch there.
We humanize these sports figures like we know them. We don’t. The psychology of the fan is a paradox; laundry counts for so much but it is ultimately about game time performance. Showmanship. Promotion.
The most dominant active player isn’t even discussed because he has a most glaring fault: he is boring. He is a gentleman. He doesn’t do major endorsements. But championships and accolades are insignificant if we can’t berate him.
As for LeBron and company, it is July and the NBA is relevent. That is self promotion done well.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 10, 2010 8:23 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
he may be a gentleman
but eric maynor is not boring
by lchristmas on Jul 10, 2010 10:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Duncan has a wonderful legacy.
One of the best ever in the NBA and that’s saying something.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
he's one of my favs
I don’t like individual guys most of the time, but I have the upmost respect for Tim Duncan.
Is this the reason for the shine-do?
So, the light just shines of that brilliant cranium of yours?
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
What i didn't know, was it is actually sign and trade
Heat continued working on sign-and-trade deals for both players, which were completed long after the event ended, around 11 p.m. The Heat sent two future first-round and two second-round picks to the Cavaliers for James, while packaging two first-round picks to the Raptors for Bosh.
Judgment day is coming!
I haven't really participated much in the post "Decision" fallout
one, because I’ve been busy with other stuff. Two, because I’m kinda over this whole thing. Three, because I’m really tired of this whole thing.
Anyways, I’ll say my peace and move on hoping the start of Summer League brings back some sense of normalcy around here.
I guess I’m a LeBron fan. I’ve been with Shizzo, Otis, and Kfan (just to name a few) defending the guy for a while now. I didn’t think he did anything wrong up until “The Decision” (the one hour special). Everyone began talking shit when they heard he was going ‘on tour’ to every city which of course he didn’t. They continued talking shit when they heard Nike was making shoes for every city, didn’t happened either. They also assumed he was going to take the spotlight away from the NBA finals and the Draft, didn’t happen either.
Hope people realize the only time he showed his face on TV after the playoffs was the Larry King interview. He was laying low in Cleveland; not being out and trying to get interviewed. Of course that didn’t stop ESPN from creating his own section in the website, or talking about him non stop. It also didn’t stop Woj from trying to get more traffic for his column by becoming LeBron’s biggest ‘hater’ after Skip Bayless. For that whole time, we didn’t see LeBron once (!) but of course he was just being his narcissist, selfish self. (/note sarcasm)
Then “The Decision” came. That was stupid, idiotic, moronic, douchy, and other better adjectives that are not in my vocabulary because I can barely speak and write English. That was a TERRIBLE idea by the guy and his team. Then again, I thought it could’ve turned into a good thing if he announced he was staying in Cleveland. I thought it could’ve been a place to celebrate that the hometown boy was staying and was gonna try to bring that trophy to the city of witnesses.
Then he crapped all over them and decided to go to Miami. I agree with the decision to go to South Beach, but he could’ve and should’ve handled it better. I appreciate the gesture of donating 2.5 mil to a charity, but you just don’t break the hearts of a whole city (state, really) on national TV like that. That was a BAD move and he will regret it, no doubt.
In terms of the decision, I agree with some of what has been said. The Cavs org had 7 years (7 freaking years!!) to build something around one of the best players in the planet. They didn’t. They weren’t competent enough to do it; they dropped the ball. When Mo Williams is the best player you’ve ever (ever!) played next to, then there’s a BIG problem. You can say all you want about LeBron having control or him making trades and pushing signings, but I don’t give a shit. The dude carried this team (who may be lucky to win 25 games next season) to the Finals once, and to the playoffs for the past 5 years. He was a free agent and Cleveland had 7 years to make a case for him to stay; they didn’t so he left. The way that was handled was S-H-I-T (just in case anyone is missing this point) but the final decision was the right one.
One of the things I’ve been thinking about in the past couple days is a bit funny. A lot of people (myself included) like to relate to these guys; think that we could make the right decisions if we were in their shoes. We like to think that we know how it is and would love them to see things the way we do. I personally, love when players ‘get it.’ I like it when they are about winning, and don’t mix that with the money. I love it when players understand their role and are all about the team. In a way, isn’t this what LeBron is doing?
He’s leaving money on the table to go play with his buddies and win. Isn’t that something we would like to do? Don’t we appreciate when players like Grant Hill take less $$ just to try to be part of something. Or when veterans that deserve a ring join a contender to fit a role and be there playing in June. Growing up I always thought I wanted to work in something fun; something that would make me excited to get up in the morning. If someone told me: I’m going to pay you a lot of money to go work with your buddies and do the thing that you love the most everyday, wouldn’t you do it? I would. This is why I don’t fault LeBron for going to Miami to play with Wade and Bosh.
What about his legacy many ask? My answer, why in the fuck do WE care about HIS legacy? If he doesn’t want to be the best ever, or top 5, or top 10, or top 25, why do we care? If this is going to make him happy, then he should totally go for it (and he is). The only problem in this whole thing is the way he handled it; that should be it.
Maybe he doesn’t care about his legacy, so why do we have to care? It almost feels like we want him to become something that maybe he doesn’t want to become. Again, look at yourself and think about becoming something others want you to, is that really what you want in life? He’s still the best (or second best) basketball player in this planet and it looks like he may be getting some rings in the next couple years while playing with his buddies. That sounds like a great time if you asked me.
My point with this is that maybe (just maybe) he actually became something positive. The superstar that took less money to have fun. I know this sounds like spinning the situation but I truly believe he made an unpopular decision because he wanted to enjoy playing ball and winning. All the venom coming his way, from everything angle, is just ridiculous.
I lost respect for LeBron last Thursday for the way this was done and I feel terrible for loyal Cavs fans everywhere but at the end of the day, I can’t fault LeBron for being in the MIA.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Jul 10, 2010 8:42 PM PDT reply actions 9 recs
fanpost
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't agree with your take Eddie
But I agree with Wally.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know you don't
And I know it was long, but this is a Kings site, not a LeBron site. We’ve had enough post about a guy that’s not in our team so I decided to just keep it here. I actually had more stuff to say, but again… dude is not even playing in Sac
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Jul 10, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do not disagree with you on most of your points - I do have a different take on this:
The superstar that took less money to have fun.
He took less money, because he wanted to join with Wade and Bosh with the hopes of winning. I do not fault him for that. Some people say that was very unselfish of him to “leave money on the table.” I do not think it was a matter of being unselfish.
If you look at the price of a championship for a franchise, it is enormous. You have to factor in all of the player and staff salaries, all the hours of work and planning, all the years that you do not win a championship, etc. It is many millions of dollars.
If you are a player and you covet some championship rings, is it worth giving up a fraction of your potential salary to significantly up the odds that you will win a championship? The answer is pretty obvious.
LeBron left some salary on the table, because he is hoping that those few million dollars “left on the table” will bring him a few rings. For a guy bringing in the kind of money he brings in, this is a small price to pay. Nothing unselfish about it.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
by Slam_Dunk on Jul 10, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Leaving 19 million dollars on the table is nothing to a guy like LeBron.
Or, 30 million really. Even though 30 million is a lot of money, it’s not like LeBron left all of that on the table as it turned out.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But people knock guys like Joe Johnson who bolted Phoenix to chase the money.
So isn’t this the opposite?
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
Johnson could have gotten more in Phoenix
Atlanta just offered him more.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not really.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was under the impression that Phoenix actually matched the contract offer Atlanta gave him.
It’s just that he complained and asked them to let him go because he wanted to be the man in Atlanta and not the 4th wheel in Phoenix
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
From wikipedia
In the summer of 2005, Johnson became a highly touted restricted free agent and expressed a desire to leave the Suns to assume a larger role on the Atlanta Hawks. Johnson grew upset with Phoenix’s initial offers to re-sign him feeling they were well below his market value. This rift eventually led to Johnson requesting the Suns not match Atlanta’s $70 million offer.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
He was a restricted free agent though
and they were going to keep him. I think Truehoop was a place where they did a good job of disecting it.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This is one thing that is very interesting to me that nobody has really mentioned.
What about his legacy many ask? My answer, why in the fuck do WE care about HIS legacy … Maybe he doesn’t care about his legacy, so why do we have to care? It almost feels like we want him to become something that maybe he doesn’t want to become.
Why do we really care about his legacy? It doesn’t make a whole lot of logical sense unless we all bought into the idea of his being “The Chosen One” or the “Hometown Hero.” Are we mad because he looks like a hypocrite for not trying to fullfill an advertising campaign?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 10, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that point.
But LBJ makes a killing off the potential fulfillment of that legacy and what it means In a way, I’m mad solely because he failed to even fake the illusion that he’s sold.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Shaq at least managed to fake the illusion that he's a landmark player.
LeBron wasn’t even smart enough to do that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Did you buy into that illusion?
Because you seem dissapointed
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
No I'm disappointed because he punted his legacy to be one of the greatest players to ever play the game.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He did
But that was his decision. If I needed to make a decision in life, I’d make it for myself not for what people wanted me to be. I’d rather be happy
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I understand that.
The problem I have is that I think LeBron made this decision with the basketball side in mind. He took the easy way out to win in his basketball career.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fair point
Then again, everyone has a different opinion of where he should’ve gone. Some will say stay in Clev, others go to Chi, others go to NY, others go to NJ, and other go to MIA.
No one will ever agree what was the best option so I defer to letting it unfold and seeing what happened. At the end of the day it’s always entertainment so I’ll enjoy it as such
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
And with that I'm out
Have a good Sat night Pookey
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
And to you Eddie.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Legacies start with championships
Unless it is to be the great star that never won.
If, if, if the HeatTrick works and they win multiple championships then a legacy of team is created. Like the Celtics and the Lakers it was the team that won. Led by Wade led by Bosh led by LeBron. Championships have champions.
Silly argument
by betweentheeyes on Jul 11, 2010 9:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
No they don't.
That’s not what a real legacy is. Sorry.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I definitely agree with where you're coming from.
Their legacy will be the first time in the history of the NBA where three friends, each stars in their own right, decided to take a salary cut in order to play together, with their friends, and win together. As far as I know, that’s never happened before. And that is definitely a legacy. Friendship and winning taking precedence over individual merits, stats, and money.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
Are you a NWO fan too?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If you're referring
to this…then no. I’m pretty lost on your comment/joke/jab.
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
I think he is referring to another NWO
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Never interested in wrestling, so absolutely clueless on that whole scenario.
But apparently it was a good ‘legacy’ if you’re talking about it 14 years later. Right?
Let us usher in the era of Reke DMC!
Well to be honest I could be wrong. I was kind of joking.
But (as Bill Simmons points out) the NWO clip I linked you to is actually kind of interesting if you sit back and listen to the audio of it. In a weird way sort of applies.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Same exact thing. The link I put up is when Hogan came out as the 3rd member.
Don’t mess with my and my fake wrestling history!
(actually wasn’t a big fan but had friends who were)
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Not quite the same exact thing.
Yours was a video. Not meaning to tread upon your fake wrestling obsession:)
Yeah, yeah, friends who were.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
I was fond of wrestling for awhile
The NWO came out big but I also think it led to the eventual collapse of the WCW.
If I recall correctly it forced Vince McMahon to be a lot more creative and WCW got stuck in that NWO plot line without anywhere to take it or evolve.
The NWO was a funny parallel with this years free agency. Sadly, in the next 10 years (if not already) there will be a whole generation without wrestling plot lines to relate to the world (sarcasm!).
Thank you for saying what I am too lazy to type
Cheers.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 11, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
That was good
Like it all except this concept he took less money. He’s taking around 10% less over the life of his contract to play in Miami. I really don’t consider that any kind of sacrifice. Well all get multiple job offers (hopefully), it’s typical for compensation to fluctuate at least 10% between job offers. The point I am trying to make is we all work with people who make this type of decision and no one cares. A person would certainly get laughed at around the workplace proclaiming he/she sacrificed by taking the slightly lower paid job offer.
by bignerd on Jul 11, 2010 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Solid point
Old college logic. The fact that you’re the drunk guy stroking the disinterested girls hair doesn’t make you that much better than the drunk guy stroking the disinterested girls thigh. A borderline billionaire turning down a few million ain’t all that laudable.
by rbiegler on Jul 11, 2010 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, nerd (and I'll use this space to reply to SD as well)
I don’t think that money is a big deal. LeBron could probably make it up with all the endorsements and benefits that comes from winning. Money is the least of his worries. I only mentioned this part for two reasons IMO:
One, take someone like Joe Johnson. Obviosuly we have no clue what goes through his head but do you really think he’s sure he can take that Hawks team deep in the playoffs? Does he actually think as it stands, the Hawks paying him all that money will get them a ring? No way he thinks that; if he does, he’s delusional. Of course, that didn’t stop him from taking every single penny he could get. Do I blame him? Of course not, hell no!. It’’s the Hawks’ org fault for paying him that much and I’d take the money too. But then again, he didn’t have to. He could’ve taken a little less to help the team and he didn’t. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh did. Yes, it’s a different situation but the fact of the matter is they took less money (whether it’s one mil or 10).
Two, someone correct me if I’m wrong but not long ago we had an argument going around about how none of these guys were going to take less money to go anywhere. I believe it was Otis and HT going at it a bit about this topic. Not sure who was on what side (or I could be completely mixing stuff up) but I remember part of the argument being the fact that there was no way these max guys weren’t taking the money. One side was adamant that this was not happening. Well…. look what happened?
I know money is not a big deal to any of these guys, but that’s kinda the point too. It;s cool that it isn’t all about money, but also about winning, and doing it with your friends.
One last point (ok, probably not the last one but still) to add: IMO this guys did talk about playing together back when they played for US. I don’t think they thought it was possible but like a bunch of guys after some drinks, they made a pact to make it happen and talked about how much fun it would be. IMO (and obviously I have no way of knowing for sure, but neither does the opposite side of the argument) none of them actually thought it was a done deal. I don’t think they made up their mind long ago.
I honestly think (again, personal opinion) that LeBron struggled with leaving Cleveland but in the end, it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Him and Bosh owed it to themselves to see what else was out there and they did. I actually think that if anyone had his mind made up, it was Wade and he just played around with other teams making them think he was really thinking about leaving. I don’t think that’s bad btw, it’s just business (the sports guy actually made a good point that he could’ve actually been scouting the competition for Pat Riley in those interviews; interesting scenario).
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Jul 11, 2010 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I remember part of the argument being the fact that there was no way these max guys weren’t taking the money. One side was adamant that this was not happening. Well…. look what happened?
Yeah this shocked a lot of people around the NBA as much as LeBron crapping on his legacy. That hasn’t been done. i’ve seen numbers that James & Bosh each got 110 Mill and Wade took 107 mill. That’s a significant reduction for all 3. But again, that’s 100+ million dollars apiece and I remember a time when Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O’Neal and Kevin Garnett got significant money in the same off-season. (Although in KG’s case it was an extension.) Jordan got 30 million in the same off-season (1996) and what not.
My point is that what Johnson did was not unique. It’s just looking different now that James Wade & Bosh took less money than they could have gotten.
The thing about collusion is getting a lot of people up in arms right now, and that’s interesting to see how it works. I think the only thing the NBA can do is fine players millions of dollars and suspend them lots of games for such things. It will be hard to prove as there is these things called cell phones. But meetings like the one Wade James & Bosh had in late June won’t happen again.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
Maybe we should adjust our stats to per36 years of age? -- ElRonToro
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If they are free agents, then they are not under contract in the NBA
And thus, they are not governed by NBA rules and can do whatever they want.
The owners "collude" at a much higher level
And for higher stakes. In general I side with the guy taking the risk – the owners. In this case, making a decision on where you want to work and with whom is not collusion but does remind ownership that the balance of power is a touch less one sided.
On a separate note I have to tell you how much enjoyment I get from the discourse on this site. Having a place to come to read and contribute opinion brings a smile to my face. Ziller, Section, rbeigler, Aykis, ExG please accept my gratitude.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 11, 2010 10:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this.
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
yuppers
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Jul 11, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
P.S. Kudos for use of the word Schadenfreude
If you want to be your best, you have to do your best, otherwise you are only second rate.
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