SGs reportly getting traded by their teams
by Fredman on Aug 19, 2010 12:51 PM PDT
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PrintWas reading the several NBA rumor websites that report the likelihood of Rudy Fernandez of Portland and Xavier Henry of Memphis may be traded because of playing time and/or contracts. Since I believe that the Kings could use either one of these two young guards to pair up with Tyreke Evans, I began wondering what the Kings could offer that would interest either team to trade their SGs.
When I look at Portland's current roster, I see why Rudy Fernandez is complaining about playing time. Playing behind Brandon Roy is definately going to affect what minutes are available. They sign W. Matthews for 4 times the amount of money they are paying R. Fernandez and then draft a combo guard in Williams and a SF in Babbit which takes mins out of the SF spot that Fernandez might have been able to fill.
In Memphis, they still have not signed their first round (#12) SG Xavier Henry. Apparently, management isn't willing to pay him the 120% rookie rate (which comes out to being about an addition $300,000) and Henry is filling disrespected and not willing to trust management. Plus, he is going to only be picking up minutes playing behind OJ Mayo. Not the idea environment a talented rookie wants to start his career at.
The other thing that both of these team's roster are lacking is a backup PF. Portland has L. Aldridge and Memphis has Z. Randolph holding those positions but no dependable talent to serve as their backups. Since both Portland's roster and Z. Randolph have a history of injuries, I would think that these teams would give the Kings pretty good value back for Jason Thompson and Carl Landry.
So, would the Kings be willing to tade Landry for Fernandez + late 1st round pick? Jason Thompson for Xavier Henry + 2nd round pick? I am not sure if contracts is an issue with Landry and Thompson both making more than Fernandez is and what Henry should sign for.
Also, this would also create more minutes for Whiteside to be on the court and mature as a player.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Nope
Carl is worth more than Rudy ( rudy does not want to play in the nba anyways) & JT has way lot of value than Xavier Henry..He is a rookie & not proven anything yet
using that logic would also mean
that S. Hawes has more value than DMC since DMC is a rookie and hasnt proven anything.
Yet, I think you would have traded Hawes for DMC in a heartbeat!
Thats more like it.
"Morrison beats Casspi 1 on 1". - MarcusC
by Surprise Team on Aug 19, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, she's green.
But we did make it to Thursday before we got this week’s Rudy Fernandez post.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
But it's like the 2nd or 3rd Xavier Henry post of the day
And it’s gonna be hard as shit finding a bunch of famous Xaviers for the next Asinine Offseason Thread
Like this one?
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
And really,
I don’t understand why people are so willing to give up so much to get someone who was not even projected to be a lottery pick in most mock drafts.
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by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
If you're talking about Henry
Many mocks had him going in the top 10. I doubt you could find many who didn’t have him as a lottery pick.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Aug 19, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Later mock drafts did,
But if you go back a few weeks, he was projected around 15-20.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 20, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This trade makes no sense for Memphis, Portland, Rudy or Henry.
They end up trading roughly duplicative pieces, and each player winds up in roughly identical situation to the one he just got traded out of. I don’t see what there is to be gained, unless Memphis is really desperate for a million or two dollars more in cap space and is willing to give up a draft pick.
"Where hope goes to die"
Blazers want a first rounder for Rudy.
And Henry is not that great. No thanks I think the Kings have no need to date the ugly friend of shooting guards.
We have a SG
His name is Tyreke Evans. Do you really think Beno was our starting SG??
I would suggest ducking
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
If by SG
you mean stud guard then yes Tyreke is that.
by gtrman1973 on Aug 19, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Beno's our starting SG, Tyreke's the PG
Wanna know how I know? Because that’s what Westphal’s lineup says!
This is what you in yesterday's Beno VS. thread
“12-15? I’d take him over anyone in from 10 to 15. I’d easily put him at number 10 over Baron Davis”
So Beno is a top 10 PG but he’s not a PG on his own team?
Umm... no
I based my thoughts on Dwyer ranking Tyreke as an SG. If Dwyer thinks Reke is the SG, then he thinks Beno is a PG, and I was making the case that Beno should be on his list of PGs. However, that was earlier in the post where I said he should be in the bottom of the top 30. The specific quote you used is me talking about Tyreke!
by vfettke on Aug 19, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
My mistake. But you still refer to Beno as a PG in the thread.
“And honestly, i’d pick most of the point guards on his list over Beno as well, except the two Ziller listed.”
Which means there are two point guards you would start Beno over.
I agree with Aykis down below, I personally don't really care what position we define them by. But ..
But your logic on this point with vfettke is intellectually weak at best. I would suggest dropping it altogether.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
So
Saying that Beno is a better PG than Conley/Stuckey one day, then saying Beno is a SG the next day makes sense to you??
Beno is a better PG than those guys
But he plays SG for the Kings. Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
Similarly, Tim Duncan is a better Center than most Centers in the league, but the Spurs play him as their Power Forward.
When discussing two opposing point of views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
by Exhibit G on Aug 19, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Point well taken
But Tim’s natural position is PF. He’s often called the “Greatest PF ever”. Just from watching the Kings last year and how the Tyreke/K-Mart backcourt failed leads me to believe Tyreke is a SG in the NBA. If not why not try Ime or Garcia (when he came back) at the 2 instead of starting a player who is known as a PG??
There are always exceptions to the rule. Like LeBron. He’s a top 10 player at any position. Hell, top 5 at most. I’m not saying Tyreke is at his level. But I can see how Tyreke can be considered as a better PG than others.
Saying Beno is better than two players who play the point guard position one day then saying Beno is a SG does in fact make sense yes.
Next time we’ll make sure to petition Yahoo Sports to only rank Beno as a shooting guard. Until they correct it, we will make sure never to make comments on such lists because clearly we would all be explicitly stating he is a point guard if we make reference to that list.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
"we will make sure never to make comments on such lists"
Oh so you speak for everyone? Not just argue on the behalf of vfettke?
We can agree to disagree. I’m not expecting to change your mind. And I’m sure you weren’t trying to change mine about Beno’s position.
that was a pretty obvious sarchasm there
I was giving you grief because you kept pushing vfettke and actually trying to tell him that he said something he already told you he didn’t say.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, pay attention
Dwyer said Tyreke is a SG. That means he sees Tyreke as a PG. So I, along with Ziller and plenty of others, made the case that if, in Dwyer’s mind, Beno is a PG, then he should be on the list.
If Beno is a PG then so is Tyreke because they are the same god damn type of player!
How are they the same type of player???
I think they are opposites. Thats why the work so well together in the backcourt. Thesis is a slasher/scorer. Similar to K-Mart. They both try to get to the rim every chance they get. That’s why IMO they didn’t work well together.
Beno is more of a shooter and passer. Not looking to score at the rim at every opportunity. They compliment each other not duplicate. And although Tyreke is a “playmaker” by attacking the rim and making the defense collapse, Beno can actually “run” a play. You know, like a PG.
by StevenG on Aug 19, 2010 9:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I've explained this a million times
At their cores, they are the same. Both guys do a combination of scoring and passing. Obviously they do it in different ways. But at the most very basic level they are the same. Which is why they work together. Generally, a true PG does a little scoring and a lot of passing and playmaking. A true SG does a lot of scoring and a little passing. Both of these guys do a good amount of scoring with a decent amount of passing. That’s why they match so well, because although neither is a true PG or true SG, together they combine for a true PG and a true SG.
So...
Even though the coach has said that Evans is the team’s point guard, and even though ESPN lists Evans as a point guard, and even though Evans started pretty much every game he played last season as the point guard and brought the ball up the court most of the time and initiated the offense, you think that Beno is the Kings’ point guard.
If you don’t believe the preponderance of evidence to the contrary, then there is no point in arguing with you.
But I would like to point out that Evans and Udrih complimenting each other means they say nice things to each other. The word you are looking for is complement. As in complete.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well they probably do that too
I’ll blame it on my iPhones auto-correct function.
by StevenG on Aug 19, 2010 10:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Stupid technology :-)
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 20, 2010 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I get if you think Tyreke will probably play SG long term when his career is said and done
but he really isn’t a SG at this point and time yet.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
This is not the type of action I envisioned when I told you to duck.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh. My. God.
You are definitely in the running for post of the offseason. Just wow.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
You have no idea how happy I was when I found this
All i could think was “Aykis is gonna be so jealous!”
And you were right. Still, this doesn't top Jedi Leroy's Carl Landry Sombrero picture.
Someone help me find it.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
This one:
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Aug 19, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let's see...
SG means Shooting Guard. Tyreke would have to be able to Shoot.
-—- Can’t really qualify him there cause his shot sucks.
Usually positions are determined by the coach. Not bloggers’ opinions.
-—- Can’t really qualify him there cause the Coach says, at vfettke points out, he is the PG.
There is typically more than one PG on a team. So Beno playing point has no bearing this issue.
-—- Can’t qualify him as a SG there.
SGs play off the ball more than PG and Tyreke had the ball in his hands more than anybody else
-—- Can’t seem to qualify him for SG there.
Looks like your opinion has little support.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I've really stopped caring what position Reke is supposed to be.
I’m just glad he’s on the team. Call him a Center for all it matters. He’s going to have the ball in his hands most of the time.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I know I am fast finding myself there as well
He is a basketball player who can score and make plays. He plays PG and runs the team. That’s enough for me.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Let's see
“SG means Shooting Guard. Tyreke would have to be able to Shoot.
— Can’t really qualify him there cause his shot sucks.”
Not every starting SG is a great shooter. I think everyone can agree there. Some may have FG%‘s around 45-50% but that includes all shots. I’m not going to go looking for everyones 12-20ft FG%
Just a few SG’s I would not classify as “Shooters”
Vince Carter (well maybe the last few years)
Ronnie Brewer
Thabo Sefolosha
DeShawn Stevenson
“Usually positions are determined by the coach. Not bloggers’ opinions.
— Can’t really qualify him there cause the Coach says, at vfettke points out, he is the PG.”
If you have a link to this audio/video please post.
“There is typically more than one PG on a team. So Beno playing point has no bearing this issue.
— Can’t qualify him as a SG there”
There is typically more than one PG on a team. So Carl Landry playing point in a top hat has no bearing this issue.
“SGs play off the ball more than PG and Tyreke had the ball in his hands more than anybody else
— Can’t seem to qualify him for SG there.”
Yeah because:
Mario Chalmers handles the ball way more than Wade.
And Fisher handles the ball way more than Kobe.
And Steve Blake handled the ball way Brandon Roy.
Exceptions to the rule don't mean my statements are invalid
Using this sort of tactic will not help your case.
Most Shooting Guards can shoot, don’t have the ball in their hands all the time, are not listed as the PG by the coach (look up the line up – I mean come on), and to say otherwise just makes you look like somebody grasping at straws. It is weak sauce.
Don’t confuse the fact that Tyreke is a combo guard and take that to mean he isn’t also a PG.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Bottomline
Who Westphal puts at the position is the PG and that matter more to me than anybody else’s position.
When he has somebody else play PG then that person will be PG. That person is likely to be Beno coming off the bench when Garcia comes back.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
When people say Tyreke isn't a PG, they don't mean that he didn't play PG last season
They mean that he’s not a natural PG (or that he shouldn’t play PG). Obviously he played most of his minutes at PG last year.
I personally think the team would be better off with a more willing passer playing PG. It would give the rest of the team a few opportunities in early offense to keep them more motivated, and it would allow Tyreke to catch the ball in motion more often and hopefully get some easier looks at the basket.
And superior shooting ability is a common trait among shooting guards – not a prerequisite.
Actually....nevermind.
I just read Steven’s next post. He actually doesn’t think that Tyreke played PG last year.
I think he started the year at PG
But played more SG after the K-Mart trade.
nope
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
NO!
He was the starting Point Guard. All you need to look at is the lineups. Since he and Beno both play the same (combination of playmaking and scoring) then they are interchangeable. The only reason people see Beno as the point guard is because he’s smaller than Tyreke.
Tyreke is a scorer, while Beno is a shooter...
While they are interchangeable, Tyreke is probably the better playmaker and Beno is probably the better shooter.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Yep, spot on
Tyreke and Beno are both combo guards. They are impure and unclean because they can’t measure up the standard of PG purity that seems to be overrated.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
But together they do match up to that PG purity
and SG purity is well. That’s why it works so well. That’s why any guard we get either needs to be a great 6th man or needs to be a better version of Beno if he’s going to start
What????
I think Beno is a PG because that’s what he’s played his entire career. Not because of his size. Was he not a PG San Antonio (albeit not very long)? Was he not our PG before Tyreke? Beno is a PG.
by StevenG on Aug 19, 2010 9:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Umm...
if you look at his skill set, Beno is a combo guard. It doesn’t matter if he plays the 1 or the 2. Mike Bibby was the same way, but he played our PG spot. And Beno did up until this year. Using your same logic, then Tyreke is a point guard because he plays point guard. So your argument validates my argument. Tyreke is a PG because that’s the position he plays.
by vfettke on Aug 19, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice FAL
What’s up with that scope though? A scope on a FAL is like tits on a donkey. Iron sights are the way to go.
"Live Long and Prosper." - Spock
PSG-1, not FAL
Sniper rifle, not assault rifle.
by Donovan Jeska on Sep 17, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There's a big difference
between playing a season as a PG and an entire 7 year career as a PG. Can you honestly say Beno has not played the PG position his whole career?
by StevenG on Aug 19, 2010 10:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
How did this
We have a SG. His name is Tyreke Evans. Do you really think Beno was our starting SG??
turn into this?
Can you honestly say Beno has not played the PG position his whole career?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 19, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone ever notice that Beno was universally known as a PG his whole career up until he began starting with Tyreke?
And then through the magical powers of self-serving rationalization, he became a combo guard.
The team plays well with Tyreke and Beno sharing the backcourt…..but everybody knows 2 PG’s don’t play at the same time…..since Tyreke is our PG of the future….that must mean Beno is actually a combo guard.
Xavier & DMC are 2 totally different prospects
Plus Hawes did not prove shit in the NBA..JT had better stats than Hawes in both seasons they played together.
Quoting Rudy Fernandez' agent -
“The impression I’m getting more and more is that he’s lost interest in playing in the NBA, quite frankly, It’s my impression that Rudy would prefer to be in Europe rather than the NBA at this point.”
I just don’t get the fascination with this guy. I truly don’t. If he helps us at all, it is by such a miniscule amount that it is nowhere near worth the Portand’s asking price or the potential headaches. Pass.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 19, 2010 6:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The funny/sad thing about that quote is that it almost has to be true
There is no way an agent would make a statement that diminishes a player’s value in the NBA like that unless he was truly desperate to escape for Europe.
Followed by this -
“All I can do now is stand on the rooftop and scream, ’He’s not coming!’ He’s just not coming back. I’ve made that clear,” Miller said. “I would like to have an amicable divorce.”
Why do we want to trouble ourselves with this guy? He’s just not that talented to put up with the potential grief.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 19, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's becoming a really funny story (one of the best of the summer)
Right up there with the Griz not wanting to pay Henry.
Rudy is also reportedly not picking up Nate McMillan’s phone calls, nor is he returning the calls.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
well in todays oregonian
They say rudy and nate talked. But for the life of me I don’t see how Rudy is helpin himself. Now that he has said the NBA is hucksters and he doesn’t want to be here, it just makes it more likely he doesn’t play ball or get paid til his contract is done. Weird strategy imo.
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Aug 20, 2010 8:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a retarded strategy
As Paul Allen will totally call his bluff and let him sit out for two years if Rudy doesn’t report to training camp or get traded.
Honestly, I'd love to have the guy if his attitude were better
As a bench guard getting enough minutes he’d provide a nice punch, but so would a lot of other people. But he’s asking too much. He wants more minutes and has apparently requested his own personal locker room hair stylist.
Thank you.
The Rudy Fernandez idea has been done to death.
Move on, people.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
But, but, but
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Aug 19, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah I remember
I don’t even think that much of his game. Can’t penetrate or create his own shot, never understood all the love.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Aug 19, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
dumbest argument I have ever seen^^^^^
(Tyreke/Beno PG debate)
THERE ARE NO POSITIONS IN BASKETBALL
on offense you have roles that you follow. one guy takes the ball up, one guy looks for an open shot on the perimeter, one guy is trying to get low post position, etc.
on defense, you man up according to your size, athleticism, and skill.
nowhere in there did I mention any names of positions…because there are none. what you have are 5 players on the court with a mix of skills that hopefully create a full repertoire for the offense and defense.
If I was going to speak your language about beno at sg, I would say we should put Tyreke as the smallest player on the court. Make guys like Chris Paul and Deron Williams have to guard him. Let Tyreke shut those guys down. Let the other backcourtsmen next to Tyreke guard the dynamic ‘shooting guards’ in the game today like Kobe, Roy, etc.
Are you on the right thread?
If so, there’s a ‘reply’ button under every comment so we all know who you’re replying to or what you are reacting to.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Aug 24, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
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