Should the Kings Attempt to Acquire Carmelo Anthony?
by Aykis16 on Aug 28, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
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PrintAs you no doubt have heard about now, Carmelo Anthony wants out of Denver, and according to Yahoo's Adrian Wojnorowski, its a matter of when and not if Denver acquiesces to his demand. It is in fact, in their best interest to do so, as the most they're likely to get in a sign and trade this summer would be a trade exception, while a trade now could land them young talent and picks, which is exactly what they reportedly want in turn.
The Kings are not mentioned among the potential teams that could be involved. This could be for a few reasons: Carmelo is not interested in coming to Sacramento, Sacramento is not interested in acquiring Carmelo, or the media doesn't think Sacramento would be an attractive destination. Two other teams in the Pacific Division are mentioned as possible trade partners (Clippers and Warriors). Both, like the Kings, have plenty of young talent that could entice Denver. But the Kings are also the most under the salary cap, meaning they can take back much more money than they send out. Other teams mentioned as possible destinations include New Jersey and Houston, both with ample young talent and draft picks in Houston's case.
So its obvious to me that the Kings fit the criteria of Denver's supposed demands. But is Carmelo Anthony someone the Kings should try to get?
First off, we have to look at the type of player Carmelo is. Much like Tyreke Evans, Carmelo is a scorer. A damn good one too, having never averaged less than 20.8 PPG, and being in the Top 5 in points per game in 3 of the last 4 years. How does he get these points? According to Hoopdata.com, most of Carmelo's shot attempts come from around the rim, followed by 16-23 feet (the most inefficient shot in basketball). He also typically averages about 2.5 three point shots a game, despite historically never being a good three point shooter (career 30.8%). He's also extremely adept at getting to the line averaging almost 8 free throw attempts per game for his career and knocking them down at a nice 80.1%.
Also like Tyreke, Carmelo is ball dominant, even more so than Tyreke (26.2% Usage Rate), with a career Usage Rate of 31.1%. Usage Rate is the estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor (where he either scored, assisted, or turned it over, etc.) That's a lot of possessions. With both of them on the court, and DeMarcus as well, there are not going to be a lot of touches for the other players.
For all his bright spots on offense however, his defense is somewhat lacking. Although Denver performed 4.6 points per 100 possessions better on offense with him on the floor, they also gave up 1.1 pp100 on defense with him on. It's a net positive, obviously, but you can't really rely on Melo to be a defensive stopper (the reason he's not a superstar in my opinion).
Now if the Kings decided that Carmelo was the answer for them, how much would it cost them? It would probably cost them a couple of their young prospects not named Tyreke or DeMarcus, as well as an Expiring like Carl Landry or Samuel Dalembert, and possibly a combination of draft picks as well as taking back contracts in order to lower Denver's cap figure. Right now Denver is over the luxury tax, and if they're not going to have Anthony, they're probably going to opt for a full rebuild, which means getting as far below the luxury tax as possible. The Kings can really help here due to their cap space.
One thing that would have to be absolutely guaranteed in any trade for Anthony would be an extension. Most reports are saying he wants a 3 year max extension with the team that he is traded to. Now obviously, if he doesn't want to go to a certain team, he doesn't have to sign the extension, and that team (in this case the Kings) is now stranded without their assets, as well as no Carmelo after his 1 year term of duty is up.
How much better would the Kings be with Anthony? Well its hard to quantify that in terms of wins, but I think its safe to say that they would be better, and probably instant playoff contenders (different from championship contenders, much different). It'd be extremely hard for teams to guard two elite scorers in Tyreke and Carmelo, and if DeMarcus came along as well, it'd simply be too much for some teams. But would a team featuring those three be good enough to contend for a title?
I'll be honest, I came into this article fully planning to support a Kings attempt to get Anthony. But looking at the evidence doesn't leave me too excited at the prospect of him in a Kings uniform, although I'm not entirely against it. What do you think?
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No
Too expensive. Too ball dominant to pair with Tyreke. Too high risk in terms of leaving come summer.
by Rickyflip on Aug 28, 2010 7:41 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
The "too ball dominant" theory is a myth, IMO.
I think the Heat will prove that this year: 3 “ball dominant” players on one team. The truth is: more superstars = more wins.
you are wrong
lebron and wade are great passers. anthony is not that much of a passer.
by WiltonDeportes on Aug 28, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be a risk that would be worth taking if . . .
he was committed to playing in Sacramento. I believe the talent on the team with Carmelo would bring Arco back to the sell out crowds it once had. Players like playing to a full house and I think he would stay beyond his 1 year commitment. So YES, YES, YES!
Ba-da
Nope
I think he’s a great scorer, but I’m not the biggest fan of his. I don’t think he’s a superstar, and I think you’ll have to trade for him like he is one. Let someone else overpay for him.
by Dub_TC on Aug 28, 2010 7:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
oh, and
This could be for a few reasons: Carmelo is not interested in coming to Sacramento, Sacramento is not interested in acquiring Carmelo, or the media doesn’t think Sacramento would be an attractive destination.
it’s 3. It’s always 3. Best example … during the mega huge free agent year of 2010 … even though the Kings had the money for a few top FAs … no one ever mentioned them.
by Dub_TC on Aug 28, 2010 7:53 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
No thanks. Dont like quitters.
He is basically quitting on his team. Why? Because they aren’t Championship material? Because his new wife can’t find a job in Denver?
So, would coming to Sacramento change any of that? It wouldnt so thinking that Carmelo will come to Sacramento is just a waste of time. Let the quitters like Carmelo and L. James do their thing while Petrie builds a young team of players that WANT to be Sacramento. That is the kind of team I would be proud to watch and support.
Amen
He’s all points, no production anywhere else, including playoff wins. He IS a quitter. The only way to win in this league any more is with people who care more for others than themselves. The rest of the league can have these selfish players, i’ll stick with petrie and our new young core. Besides, Sactown is already strapped enough for jobs, Mrs. Anthony can take her search elsewhere.
By this time next year we will be sitting here talking about role players to pair up with DMC and Tyreke, not big names to come change the identity of the team. A lot of people wouldn’t agree with me but Tyreke Evans was a better basketball player than Melo last year, and come the end of next season, will have clearly distanced himself even farther.
by Loyalty2Royalty on Aug 28, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
We're talking about Carmelo Anthony. It's a no brainer.
It’s not LeBron or Wade but he’s right up there between 1st and 2nd All-NBA teams. You give everything you can afford for a player like that. No 2nd thoughts, no “we’ll see how Casspi turns out”. This is a player with multiple all star appearances and we already have Tyreke and Cousins. It would be ideal to have him.
Agree
Anyone who says “no” to this is over thinking it. I remember a few years ago when Kings fans didn’t want to trade Shaq because we had to give up Bobby Jackson, Brad Miller and draft picks. Instead he went to the Heat and won a ring. Not saying this is the same thing, but still, DO IT.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Aug 29, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
In favor
I think a lot depends on the development of DMC. If he were to become a star, a future 20-10 guy, the threesome of Melo, Reke, and DMC would be capable of matching up with any team in the league including the Heat. If not, the Kings are still a playoff team every year Melo and Reke are healthy. Guys like Melo rarely come along through the draft, and if it doesn’t take Reke or DMC to get him, you do everything possible to bring him to Sac for the next 3-5 years. I think the Kings have to try to make this deal.
If he wants to stay in Sac, I would do it...
Casspi & Landry for Melo works in the Trade Machine. I don’t think it would cost us much more than those two and our 1st….maybe a 2nd.
Players like this don’t become available often, and when they do, you have to pull the trigger. Just like the Webber deal. Just like the [REDACTED] poached Gasol.
He’s not a “superstar”, but he’s VERY close.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 8:32 AM PDT reply actions
he is not a superstar?
is that some sort of joke?
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Not at all...
Dwane Wade is a Superstar. Kobe-a-hole-Bryant is a Superstar. Chris Paul is a Superstar. LeBron James is a Superstar.
Melo is an All-Star with potential. Until he learns to play D and make players around him better, he will never reach “Superstar” status.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
This is an interesting topic for debate...
It kind of goes back to the Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett debate. Garnett has and was always considered a Super Star. Webber, although he was statistically comparable and in many ways better and his teams were better, was long considered a star but not a Super Star. I think the debate will continue in the next few years with- Is Webber a hall of fame player? When Garnett is a no brainer. Statistically speaking, these two players are almost identical. Garnett won a championship late in his career but before he became a Celtic, he was a miserable failure in the playoffs where Webber and the Kings were title contenders for half a decade.
Any way, this ties back to Carmelo in that again, there are comparable players who get the moniker Super Star and not only is he statistically better but he also has played on better, contender quality teams. Again, you can love a player like Chris Paul but in 5 years, he has led his team to the playoffs 2 times and one of those was a first round defeat. Compare Carmelo to McGrady- that dude still gets all-star votes and he has never once helped a team out of the first round and statistically, Melo is his equal. Although I am not a huge Carmelo Anthony fan, he is an NBA Super Star and he would make the Kings better.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
I'm pretty sure C-Webb was considered a top 5-10 player in the league at one point
During his pre-injury Kings years.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
All-NBA 2nd team in 1998-99
All-NBA 3rd team in 1999-00
All-NBA 1st ream in 2000-01
All-NBA 2nd team in 2001-02
All-NBA 2nd team in 2002-03
No All-NBA teams after.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Yes, all-NBA but....
for what it is worth, even Grant Napear did not believe he was a Super Star which he stated hundreds if not thousands of times on 1140. A star yes but not a Super Star. I disagree with the sentiment, Webber was a Super Star in my opinion- at least as much as Garnett was/is. I’m not sure what qualifies a player. Amaré kind of has the same stigma as Webber even though his all-NBA credentials are spectacular.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
Webb is better than Amar'e
Because he played defense (Before the injury, I remember him being our best option on Shaq), and his passing was phenomenal. If Webber in his prime was playing today, I think he’d be considered the best PF in the NBA.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Aug 28, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was playing at a time when a number of HoF 4's were playing
Duncan, Barkely, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp come to mind with Garnett and Horace Grant as well.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the reason Webber only made 5 all-star teams.
I don’t really think he ever got the respect he deserved.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
That's your opinion...
and I don’t share it.
Melo is a stud, and I never said he wouldn’t make the team better. Fact is, I already said I would do the trade. I just said he isn’t a superstar because he doesn’t play both ends of the floor and he doesn’t elevate the level of his teammates…Billups makes him better, not the other way around.
Regardless, I’m not even here for this debate. I would be happy to have the guy. He just isn’t a “Superstar”.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
IMO^
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
dunno if I should cut and paste my comment from the other thread...
I just don’t see the Kings being able to offer up enough without including either of DMC or Tyreke. I just don’t think that any trade that doesn’t involve Tyreke or DMC would be acceptable for the Nuggets. I really like Landry, he’s a (truly) valuable role player, and Casspi is nice but his ceiling may still be just the same – valuable role player. The draft picks for a team with Tyreke/DMC/Carmelo aren’t going to be great either, as that team will almost certainly contend in the playoffs for years.
I suppose you can define superstar a little more tightly than others, but I have that number at about 20-30 of them in the NBA right now – and Carmelo’s most certainly in that group. He does loads more than simply score, and even if that were the case, he does it so well you could forgive him if he didn’t otherwise average 6 boards and 3 assists. He’s not a great defensive player, but he’s not a sieve either.
My main point before and it’s still the same today is that I don’t think the Kings have what it takes to get a deal done without trading either of DMC or Tyreke.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
Then you don't understand trade value.
Name ONE time you remember any team trading away a bonafide-all-star (who some consider a superstar talent) and getting MORE back than 2 starters AND 2 first round picks….and that’s if we don’t include another big in either Thompson or Whiteside.
It always cracks me up when people think the Kings can’t offer as much as other teams and then we see what it costs to pick up an Al Jefferson or a Pau Gasol….it has nothing to do with what we can offer, we have PLENTY.
It all rests on Melo being OK with coming to Sac, which is the problem here.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
really?
How about Kevin Garnett? He was traded for two starters – one of whom was already throwing down 20-10 on a nightly basis, plus a smorgasbord of bench/youth, plus two first round picks. That’s just off the top of my head, and I’m sure if I googled, I’d find more.
It always cracks me up when people ask easily answered questions but try to file it underneath their awful thinly veiled insult.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
KG was on a different level than Melo
He was coming off the tail end of his prime as an MVP player. Melo is not in the MVP conversation, and nowhere near the type of player KG was considered. Therein lies the difference.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
by Shizzo on Aug 28, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you sure?
I mean, we know all that NOW, but in 2007, was KG considered that much better a player than Carmelo is today? KG was definitely on the downside of his career and if you recall, there was lots of talk about how old his legs really were – having played NBA ball full time from the age of 18 and all. Winning the title for the Celtics has not only cemented his HOF credentials, but vindicated the trade as being the correct move.
(I think we could spend the rest of the night debating whether or not KG was as much a superstar as Carmelo is today. One could make fairly compelling arguments that Carmelo is worth tons more than KG was then given that he’s probably only now entering his prime, where KG was obviously leaving his. I don’t know if I want to spend my Saturday night doing it, though. One could also make the argument that regardless of entering/leaving primes, KG was and is scads better than Carmelo – again, I’m going to pretend that I have better things to do tonight. I really think good points could be made on each side.)
Nick Swisher is handsome.
22.4 ppg, 12.8 rpg and 4.1 apg. Those are KG’s numbers during his final season as a wolf. They’re impressive for a guy on the downside of his career, don’t you think?
yes, we was still much better than Anthony. He was an MVP caliber player. He was warded it some years ago with the TWolves, Melo has never come close to that level, period. KG had been named to the all nba first teams several times already. Melo has never had, and until this years he hadn’t even made the all NBA 2nd team.
Not to mention superstar bigs are more valuable than a scoring SF who doesn’t bring anything to the table other than scoring.
just to add....
Garnett was 9th in the MVP voting in 2007…
Carmelo was 6th this past year…
Nick Swisher is handsome.
Ok
First- I didn’t insult you, so you can stop with you’re douche routine right there.
Second- I asked you to name a time you remember a team getting MORE than what the Kings could give. The example you gave doesn’t do that…
Third- You still haven’t addressed why it is you think the Kings don’t have as much to offer as other teams??? Seriously, who has more young Big’s, a better pair of young SF’s to pick between, and 2 first round picks along with the cap space to pretty much give Denver whatever they wanted?
It’s funny how you are trying to make this personal and about insults instead of making any valid points. I’m here to talk about my Kings, so if you want to insult me instead of doing that, go fuck yourself.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
You are all class sir. You’re not going to insult me but you’ll tell me I don’t understand trade value based on one post, call me a douche, and tell me to go fuck myself? First class all the way. I wonder, does that translate in your everyday real life? Seriously, does it? I bet it does. I’m wondering if I can try to top any argument with a grand old “go fuck yourself” and win everytime. Wait, was I insulting you in trying to answer your question? I apologize most humbly. I meant you no ill will. I was merely disagreeing with you, and you asked… I quote…
Name ONE time you remember any team trading away a bonafide-all-star (who some consider a superstar talent) and getting MORE back than 2 starters AND 2 first round picks…
I gave you the KG trade, and you further disagreed. I guess it’s hard to refute you when I merely give you the google search terms and go into any kind of detail. Let’s take a closer look, since you so politely asked…
The players that the Celtics traded were (in order of importance, in terms of this argument)
Al Jefferson
Sebastian Telfair
Ryan Gomes
Theo Ratliff
Gerald Green
(2) first round picks
The theoretical trade the Kings would send is (again, in order of importance)
Carl Landry
Omri Casspi
(possibly either of Jason Thompson and/or Samuel Dalembert (I noticed you guys still want to hold onto Donte Green… but let’s hold that thought)
(2) first round picks.
Let’s start with Al Jefferson. Nevermind what he did for Minnesota, since it’s important to know what his value in 2007 was. He was coming off a season where he averaged 16ppg and 11rpg in 33min. He shot 51% from the field and 68% from the line and had 1spg and 1.5bpg. These numbers weren’t a fluke – he averaged at least 14 points and 10 boards in all months of that season, except for November. Not impressed yet? His post all star numbers run like this… 19.8ppg, 11.5rpg, 1.1spg, 1.7bpg, 55%fg, 68%ft. That was his third season in the league, and he was 22 years old that summer. He started 60 games that year. For the sake of this comparison, I’m removing DMC (since he’s supposed to stay with the Kings as part of this deal, right), but let’s pretend that we project DMC’s performance in 2014… Are we happy with 19.8ppg, etc? What’s nice about this comparison – is well, both AlJeff and Carl Landry play PF. In fact, they’re pretty run of the mill PF, really. They swing to C in a pinch, they’re both high post/low post traditional F/C. Carl Landry finished the year with 17ppg and 6rpg in 31min. He shot 54% from the field and 81% from the line and had 1spg and 0.8bpg. There wasn’t anything in his splits during the year to suggest anything other than he’s a very steady solid player. He didn’t increase his scoring or rebounding and they didn’t decrease. His graphs that year were relatively flat. That was his fourth season in the NBA and he’s 26. He’ll turn 27 before the start of the next season.
Which player is better? Which player has more trade value?
The age difference is undeniable. The 5 year gap is nearly a canyon. At this point, any chance this comparison is even just purely looking at the performance stats is moot. 5 years younger. Let’s do it anyway.
16ppg < 17ppg
11rpg >> 6rpg
1spg = 1 spg
1.5bpg >> 0.8bpg
Given the age difference, and the clear and obvious growth AlJeff had in the second half of the season, this comparison is easy.
AlJeff < Carl Landry
See, it’s simple. I like Carl Landry a lot. He’s solid. He’s does ‘lots of things’ but he’s not about to start grabbing 10rpg. He might get 8rpg. He’ll be nice. There’s no denying that. He’s not as good as AlJeff was in 2007. But who cares? It’s 2010 and AlJeff has been traded by David Kahn for a trade exception and he’s obviously worthless at PF. Carl Landry is the greatest PF of all time. When it’s February, and we’re all wondering why the NBA has this idiot AlJeff in the All-Star game, and Carl Landry is getting 12/5 backing up DMC, we’ll know we’re right, because we said so.
Now, let’s look at Sebastian Telfair. I’m not even going to bother with statistically comparing him to Omri Casspi. They play different positions, and look, you’ll find no argument from me in the final comparison. (That said, I’ll point out that Telfair started 30 games for the Celtics that year, and Omri 31 for the Kings. If you’re including Omri in your “2 starters” then Telfair has to be fair game too. Telfair then started 51 for the Timberwovles the following season. He was a starter, alright?) I can’t help but also consider that I think that Sebastian Telfair was always overrated and I knew the minute the Celtics acquired the rights to Rajon Rondo that Telfair’s stay was tenuous. Yes, I remember that 45 minutes. Is he even going to play in the NBA this year? Bust.
Sebastian Telfair << Omri Casspi
Oof, now on to Ryan Gomes vs. Jason Thompson. In 2007, Gomes averaged 12.1ppg, 5.6rpg, 1.6apg, 1spg, 0.2bpg in 31 mins. He made 60 starts for the Celtics that year. Those numbers jumped a lot from his rookie year, and honestly, I thought then that was his ceiling. How much more can a 6’7" guy produce when he’s asked to play a lot of minutes at PF? (ps, he played a lot of PF on that Celtics team that year. yeesh) Time has borne out that I was right then about him. He’s a 11ppg, 5rpg guy for his career. Not bad for say, the 7th guy in your rotation? In 2010, Thompson averaged 12.5ppg, 8.5rpg, 1.7apg, 1spg, 0.6bpg in 31 mins. He started 58 games. Kind of eery except for the rebounds. Those numbers build on a solid rookie year for him, but I personally had hoped this guy would be turning 10rpg and maybe 16ppg. He still might do it. I like Jason Thompson. A LOT. I think he’s physically as perfect a PF as you could ask for. This is a really tough comparison, honestly. You’re talking about comparing a guy who played out of position at PF to a guy who’s about adequate at that same position while possessing all the physical tools to be better. JT is currently 24 and there’s time to grow. Will he get the chance with Landry on this team? Does he crack a rotation with Kenyon Martin, Nene, and Carl Landry? It’s obvious that JT is more valuable given his ceiling and especially when you consider the Nuggets only have about 5 guys on their roster who do the same thing. It’s important to note that when a team is including those other bits and pieces that they consider their current roster and find players that fit in well. He’s about the same performance-wise as half the Nuggets roster, so he’s better than Gomes, that’s for sure.
Ryan Gomes < Jason Thompson
How do we compare Samuel Dalembert to Theo Ratliff? It’s impossible. They’re completely different players. The both play center. They’re both known mostly for their shot blocking. They offer little in offense than the occasional putback. They’re so different you’d think that they grew up like at least 500 miles from each other. I mean, the only difference is that one guy got a contract for $60something million and other didn’t. He’s obviously better than the other guy. Obvious.
Theo Ratliff < Samuel Dalembert
Now the toughest comparison of all. Gerald Green is best known for winning the Slam Dunk Contest in one of those years that nobody cared about the contest, and Donte Greene is best known for, um, being that guy that was included in the trade for Ron Artest. They have (nearly) the same last name, but that’s where the similarities end. Donte is 4 inches taller than Gerald. Donte is from Baltimore (sorta), and Gerald is from Texas. The statistical analysis here is easier when you look at Gerald’s stats from 2010. 0ppg, 0rpg, 0apg, 0spg, 0bpg, in 0 mins. Besides at this point, who cares about actually comparing the players or having an honest debate? Besides, we already know that all the players that the Kings can offer should net them an MVP candidate. I mean, Donte can spill his Sierra Nevada Pale Ale onto the court at halftime and be more productive than Gerald.
Gerald Green << Donte Greene
You are so incredibly right. I was so far off and so obviously foolish that it’s impossible to imagine how I remember to breath every 10.6 seconds, isn’t it? The KG trade wasn’t analogous because not only has Carmelo Anthony never garnered any MVP consideration, but the Celtics didn’t trade 2 starters, several role players and (2) first round picks to acquire KG. Not only is Carmelo Anthony so clearly not amongst the upper tiers of NBA talent, but the players the Kings can assemble in a trade for him far outweigh their return. In fact, I bet Geoff Petrie is RIGHT NOW too busy hanging up the phone with whatever idiot is running the Nuggets that he doesn’t have the time to pick up the phone and offer those players in trade to the Miami Heat for Udonis Haslem. Dude. Can you imagine? Haslem. In a Kings jersey? They should give him #4 and make Chris Webber stand in a 10’ diameter circle that includes Rick Adelmen all year, singing You Are My Sunshine and clapping to the beat of Jalen Rose’s blink/facial tick. I’m really not sure where I went so wrong. It’s all too confusing, with the light and the words, and the thoughts. Petrie is obviously going to get this done. The Kings will win the NBA title in 2012, and we’re all going to celebrate their victory parade through the Power and Light District and mark my words now – that speech that Paul Westphal will give in front of the Sprint Center is going to make that speech that that guy gave back in Pennsylvania in 1863 look like me when I’m talking to myself on the toilet.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
wow
I won’t bother with most of this, but, SURE, I insulted you in my last comment….but not prior to that. Regardless, as previously stated, I’m not here to talk about feelings. So I will move on.
My point this entire time has been that the Kings can offer a comparable package to that trade you just kind-of broke down….so it’s not “more”. Thanks though.
Now, the real point in all this is what the OTHER TEAMS IN THE NBA TODAY can offer Denver. Considering we have the most cap space and nothing but young talent, there aren’t many.
I never said Melo wanted to come to Sac. Actually, I have said in many, many places on this site that I don’t think he would and he would have to agree to the extension to even have a deal to begin with.
After everything you said above, you still haven’t made an argument for the Kings not being able to OFFER an equal deal to Denver with almost any team in the league…and I don’t think any of the teams being listed have better packages.
Anyway, you’re brilliant, the best, the coolest and all that jazz….god bless
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 29, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I am willing to bet right now that Carmelo gets traded a big man, a starter (probably SF to replace Carmelo’s minutes) and a protected 1st round pick.
Casspi, Dalmebert/JT/Landry + first round pick
My thoughts exactly
2 starters and picks.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I think someone could find an argument against aquiring anyone in the league
If we had a chance & aquiring Kobe or Lebron I’m sure someone could come up with a decent argument against it. My point is no player is perfect & the only person I trust to put this team together is GP. So if GP is on bored I would be ecstatic.
That said I know this is sort of a “cop out” answer so I’ll quickly give my worthless opinion. Carmelo Anthony is one of the best scorers in this league. His team has been to the playoffs every single year since he came into the league. Denver was not a powerhouse before he came neither. He carried his team to a NCAA championship. He was able to put up damn near 30 points playing next to the biggest ball hog/me first player in A.I. With a guy like Carmelo we would be a playoff team this year & a championship contender next year. Tyreke might average 18 points & 10 assists with Melo on the team & I’m ok with that. If you can get him to sign an extension you give up everything Denver wants not named Tyreke, Demarcus, or Samuel(we need Sammy’s length if we want to compete with the L.A. Giants)
All that said it’s not going to happen unless GP gets to talk to Melo himself & convince him we could have a possible dynasty with him on the team(like he did with Webb), the Maloofs would have to give LaLa a job hosting parties at the Palms & let her host things like the Maloof money cup, promise 1 hour flights to L.A. anytime they want, convince Melo the Kings have a much better run franchise than basketball purgatory(clippers), & somehow get Bradly Miller to call Melo & tell him how good Northern Cali chronic is.
Damn the Kings should hire me as a recruiter.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Aug 28, 2010 8:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
lets say he does sign the extension....
What is stopping him from quiting on the Kings in two years and demanding to be traded again. There is no question about his talent. The question is about his character and will he honor contracts that he signs.
Question -
When has he quit on a team – ever? He’s asking to be traded, but i did not see him slack off last year, and he has not initmated that he won’t report this year – just that he won’t sign an extension with the Nuggets. Does this make Chris Paul a quitter, too?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 28, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
if anything, this “trade demand” isn’t a trade demand at all — merely a trade suggestion. He’s made it clear to the Nuggets he’s going to test free agency next year, which is the right way to proceed with the team if he’s already decided that. Give them the chance to get some assets for him, rather than leaving them empty handed. If anything, he’s doing them a favor by letting them know beforehand he will be leaving, in contract to Bosh who never let the Raptors know out-right. He could just play out this season and leave in the summer, but he’s letting the Nuggets know this is their chance to get something for him.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Being a Giants fan...
I’m a little insulted you called the redacted the “L.A. Giants.” Not cool, even though they are a big team.
La La (his wife) does want to live in N.Y.
remember she worked for MTV, so my guess is either New York or Los Angeles.
Carmelo is a star and everything, but no thanks. I definitely like what Petrie is building, and I want a player who wants to come to The Kings because they know who is on our roster, with that said I’d rather wait till this seasons over, and try to get my hands on Arron Afflalo, J.J. Barea, Shane Battier, Aaron Brooks, Marcus Thornton.
I'm not sitting in your car, or your living room with a gun pointed to your head telling you to listen to 1140. - Grant Napear
Aaron Affalo over Carmelo Anthony?
This is just ridiculous.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Aug 29, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if She-who-shall-not-be-named
can find a chisseled bodypart to drool over on this pudgy, overrated chucker.
He’s a better Antoine Walker, that’s about it.
Dunking Dutchman
lol
never heard a better comparison, couldn’t agree more
by Loyalty2Royalty on Aug 28, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Do it
Not a lot of top 10 talents can be traded to your team.
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
Melo is listening to his wife, who wants to go to a big market city like LA (Good for lala's career) or NY where Melo was born.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Oh and don't vouch for Melo b/c he and tyreke can't/won't be able to co-exist
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Carmelo
Glad you wrote this Aykis, I was considering writing a similar post. My angle, however, would have been much different. Yours was probably a better approach, and my thoughts will be better as a long-winded comment.
As I’ve mentioned previously, I live in Colorado. I’ve unfortunately been without League Pass, but I’m still a basketball junkie. This means I’ve probably watched more of Carmelo Anthony’s career that the majority of Kings fans here or elsewhere.
If Carmelo agrees to an extension, the Kings should trade whatever it takes with the exception of Tyreke and DeMarcus. Whether or not he would agree to the extension is the only factor of any relevance.
Carmelo Anthony has had a high usage rate. This is a fact. But, as I often have said, a statistic alone does not tell you the whole story. You have to look at the situation that caused the stat. It is no secret that Denver has been a dysfunctional team for the last several seasons. They’ve had talent, but they’ve had headcases. They’ve had George Karl, a good coach, but a coach with limitations. They’ve had a system that was designed to give Anthony a usage rate, specifically because he was often their only reliable talent.
Reliable talent. That’s the key. Denver has talented players. Kenyon Martin’s contract makes people overlook his actual talent. J.R. Smith can blow open a game on any given night. Nene is a very talented big man. Marcus Camby brought an unmeasurable level of talent to the team during his stint in Denver. And of course there’s the ever-mercurial Iverson. Billups defies age and odds to still be an elite point guard in this league. While every one of these players has immense talent, none of them have been consistent. The closest was Iverson, but he was hardly the type of teammate Anthony needed. And while Billups has been a great influence, he is not nearly as consistent as he once was. None of these players can be relied on day-in and day-out. Only Carmelo could.
Carmelo is one of those NBA cases where I dream of what his career may have been, and what it someday still could be, if he was surrounded by a proper supporting cast. Think back to Beijing. Carmelo was one of the best players on that Olympic team, along with Kobe. Why? Because he was surrounded with talent and was able to play his game. This isn’t an issue of whether or not he can be a leader. It’s a demonstration that he can lead a team as long as he has support. Put him next to Tyreke, DeMarcus, and whatever other young talent the team still has after the trade, and he would be incredible.
When discussing two opposing point of views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
by Exhibit G on Aug 28, 2010 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 9 recs
Total agree
Carmelo is an incredible talent. He has a way of bouncing off defenders in the post. He has every spin move, soft touch, strong finisher. Relentless scorer and smart player. And what would excite me is I think he can play SG. Assuming a package of deal of Omri, JT and picks, imagine a line-up of:
PG Tyreke
SG Melo
SF Greene
PF Landry
C DMC
Unstoppable!
As an aside, I am not sure what Carl Landry trade value would be as an UFA. I believe league rules prevent him from signing an extension. So I think his trade value would be diminished only for that reason.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 next year.
Laughable....
Trying to picture Melo’s defense on Kobe or Brandon Roy in our division….why do I come up with a blank page?
Yea, gotta go with Fredman on this one
As debated ad nauseum, basketball positionality is a factor of defensive ability, not offensive ability. Melo unquestionably has the offensive talent of a SG, but in no way can he guard any semi-effective SGs. Hell he’d have an easier time guarding PFs than SGs.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Agree!!!! Carmelo and Reke would be a nightmare for any team.
I was just watching on NBA tv one of the games of the year, Cavs vs Nuggets. it was a battle back and forth between Lebron and Carmelo, but late in the game Lebron had no answer for Carmelos 16 ft fade away pull up and Carmelo led his team to the win.
However, didnt he get busted for drugs or something.
He has a DWI on his record
He has been implicated but never convicted of marijuana possession.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
As a talent Carmelo Anthony is first rate. As a team player, IMO he is second rate
As I am wont to do, I try to put Carmelo in a past player perspective. For me, he is a Dominque Wilkins type; Exciting, a physical specimen, a wonder to watch, a media darling on the court and has been on winning teams – he lead his team to an NCAA championship as a freshman, and was an important part of USA Basketball’s last Olympic Gold. Sounds great right?
Like ’Nique, defense is not a priority. Scoring and stats are his baliwick. Not assists. Not rebounding. IMO he is a glory hog, an attention whore. And his agent is awesome. Nike is his lighthouse. He is a shill for selling gear and has done a good (not great) job of selling stuff.
My problem is that he is the type of player that is over promoted. He is immature and has had numerous scrapes with his behavior. The famous punch and run on the court. The weed. He is the most talented guy on the Denver squad.. However, the Nuggets go nowhere without Chauncy Billups.The Nuggets have been rudderless without Billups. A Melo lead team will go as far as his scoring will take them, and not much further. The Melo apologists all state his immaturity is a thing of the past. This current “trade me” whine refutes that.
Yeah, I don’t care for the guy, however on the Kings he would raise the talent bar greatly. But if he can’t sell stuff and be in the limelight, he will sour and be more of a distraction than a boon. In conclusion: no thanks.
another thing
Carmelo wants to lead but does not have the ability to do so. Any team he joins (of those available) will become Melo’s team. He needs the headlines. I don’t think he fits this current Kings team in direction or promotion. This is Tyreke’s and DMC’s team for the future. Tyreke wants to be a leader. I would like to see if he can become “that guy” and I have more faith that the Kings will be in better shape with him at the helm than with Carmelo Anthony.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
This is such a good point:
Carmelo wants to lead but does not have the ability to do so.
I have called Carmello Anthony “The Tablespoon” for a long time. The reason is because to me, he looks like a giant, fat Teresa Weatherspoon, the ex-WNBA star player for the Liberty. For what it is worth, I think both are great players in their own right but I would take the Teaspoon every time as a leader.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
Really?
So you are ready to turn over the team to DMC who has never played an NBA game, but unwilling to turn over the team to an NBA scoring champ, all-NBA first team, (one of) best player on Team USA, entering his prime playing a position of team need (SG)? I cannot led these comments go unchallenged. Sorry but your logic baffles me.
To say he does not have the ability to lead is a very subjective statement. How many consecutive years has he led Nuggets to the playoffs? I think it has been six years in a row. And he was praised for his level of play and professionalism on Team USA. Standing out amongst the best of your peers says something.
Adding Melo to the Kings will be difficult, but it would be harmonious from the start. Your team would be complete with a star lead guard, star wing player, and potential star pivot man. All your bases are covered, and the Kings become contenders for next 5+ years.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 next year.
That word, you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
playing a position of team need (SG)
Carmello is a small forward who has some problems guarding small forwards. He is not an SG, no matter how many times you post that he is. He can’t guard SGs and SGs would be able to stay in front of him all night long. Sure, he could over power most of them a la Charles Barkley but that is why the NBA instituted the 5 second rule.
I don;t totally disagree with taking on Carmello if he wants to sign an extension and be happy here but those are two really big "ifs’. I think the Kings can make this work by giving up a couple of young players- say Omri and Donté/JT, 2 non-lottery protected first round picks and giving Dalembert for Martin to save the Nuggets an addition 8 million (4 mill in salary and another 4 mill in luxury tax).
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
out of context but I get your point
So you are ready to turn over the team to DMC who has never played an NBA game, but unwilling to turn over the team to an NBA scoring champ, all-NBA first team, (one of) best player on Team USA, entering his prime playing a position of team need (SG)? I cannot led these comments go unchallenged. Sorry but your logic baffles me.
I did not recommend to “turn the team over” to DMC, I believe that Tyreke wishes to be a leader and is trying hard to become one. He may not succeed. Has one year of experience.
Carmelo is not a leader. He is a follower and a fantastic basketball talent. From the shoulders up, he is not so impressive. He is, even after 6 years in the League, still maturing and capable of becoming a more complete player, entering the League at age 19. In many ways he is like Dwight Howard who is also not yet a complete player (his position affords him more gaps in his game) and who has not yet developed a head for the game. If he came to Sacramento the whole philosophy of the team would change. I think for the worse. But that may be immaterial.
bench – If you argue that if a top talent is available then you get him and figure it out later, It is a valid point. I just don’t care for the guy and feel his play is overshadowed by his head. In other words, his top ten talent is not matched with his head – he does not have top ten game. As only a fan can condemn I will state it this way: His talent will always be diminished by his head.
We are quibbling over the abstract, and we don’t agree. A fun but useless argument. We are both right.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
all-NBA first team
In 7 years, Carmelo has never made the All NBA first team. He made the All NBA 2nd team just once, this past season.
2nd team last year -
3rd team 2006, 2007, 2009. Add that to his all rookie honors and his 3 all star appearances, and that is a pretty good resume for the first 7 years of his career
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Tyreke is damn good
But the truth is, he’s no Carmelo Anthony and I’d be surprised to see him get to that level. And many of the same negative things being said about Carmelo above can also be applied to Tyreke as criticisms.
I hear a lot about Tyreke and Cousins being future terrors, and frankly I have to chuckle. But Tyreke and Anthony would be a pretty dynamic duo and would make the Kings instant contenders.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Thats the dumbest shit i have ever heard.wow
by 9K1NGS on Aug 29, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably not ever
but definitely since Y2K
There are some guys smarter than me, some guys better looking, I take comfort in the fact that there is no guy that is both.
by ElRonToro on Aug 29, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
anybody
who shoots down advice from the Big O is not worth it
this is crazy
why would we NOT want him? are we just too happy being a bad team with young talent? Every time a trade like this comes up a lot of people scream that HE WONT BE A GOOD FIT WITH ‘REKE !! It is the same thing people said about getting Bosh or the Amar’e. We need some talent to put next to reke and dmc
free special ed.
Fantasy and Reality
Fantasy: ‘Melo is OK with coming to Sacramento and signing an extension. If that is the case, you offer anyone not named Tyreke Evans or DeMarcus Cousins to make the deal. Give them Casspi and Landry and Whiteside and draft picks. ’Melo is 26 years old, has played in 90% of his team’s NBA games, is an above average rebounder for a small forward, and a light’s out scoring machine. He has not quit on his team…yet. He has asked to be traded. It remains to be seen if he would “blue flu” his way out of Denver a la Baron Davis or Vince Carter. He is a top ten NBA talent, and if you can get him without gutting the core of your franchise, you do it.
Reality: We are not and will not be on his list of destinations. He will not sign an extension with the Kings if traded here. As such, he is worth nothing of value, as the Kings should yield no assets for a rental player at this point in time.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 28, 2010 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 8 recs
Succintly said
And exactly right. Rec’d.
When discussing two opposing point of views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
I agree with the reality portion...
However, because we know Melo might leave, I would put together a package of expirings and protected picks. Some combination of Dalembert, Landry and maybe Donte and a protected first rounder (a pick that we would fork over ideally when we are a playoff team).
This way you don’t really lose much if he does leave (as there is no guarantee that Sammy and Top Hat stay); however, you have Melo’s bird rights if you can swing the deal, and you give yourself a year to convince him that he could win a championship here. Plus, we should still be under the cap (Melo’s expiring salary should be about the same as Dalembert/Landry/Donte salary total—although I am too lazy to look it up), and we should be able to attract a top free agent if we did have Melo in the fold. I am thinking big here. Really big (i.e., Chris Paul would look good in purple).
If one of the other teams goes all in (say NJ offers Favors and expirings or someone like Clips offers Gordon and cap relief), we would be screwed, but that would be a huge gamble on their part as they could lose a valuable, young player for nothing if Melo leaves.
Make it happen Geoff!
Sorry JT, Landry and Omri. It’s been fun. But we gotta get serious.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 28, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
Make it happen Geoff!
Sorry JT, Landry and Omri. It’s been fun. But we gotta get serious.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 28, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
There is Carmelo the player and Carmelo the personality.
No player will ever admit that an “outpost” like Sac will be a good place for them. However, that’s merely ego. Players always wanna have their cake & eat it too. Unless Melo signs an extension before the trade, no way in hell can you give up significant assets. The thing here is that Melo has leverage up to a point and so does Denver. The worst that can happen for Denver is they lose a guy who has helped the Nuggets to the 1st round 7 out of 8 years (up to this point) with some quality talent on the roster, but not championship talent. In years where 50 wins was a prerequisite to make the playoffs at least 3 times. Melo’s talent offensively is not the issue. It’s the money, and the commitment.
Defensively, Melo can apply himself. The question is will he? Who knows. Players tend to be what they are.
I think having Melo on this team would make the Kings a playoff contender (a good thing) and give them a chance to resign him. I just don’t know I’d risk losing him to FA in 2011 when trading away young players to get him.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Aug 28, 2010 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
He has to be willing to sign NOW if we were to do something.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't want.
Even then, I’d like to work a trade to get a player that helps us out on perimeter defense. He would negate Tyreke’s talents with his need for the ball to take (as you stated) the worst shots available. Tyreke is running the offense here, and very few players in this league would be able to take the reigns from him, Carmelo Anthony is not one of these players.
Also, why blow up the youth project that has been in the process for what sometimes feels like an eternity, just when it starts to yield results? Let Reke and DMC have a year together before we decide to change the entire dynamic of our team. Carmelo is still relatively young, but his age doesn’t line up with the rest of our core pieces. A lockout in ’12 would just age him yet another year and hamper our financial flexibility.
"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"
If that were true, Tyreke wouldn't have much talent.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 28, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
People forget about this team but I will dispute your claim with this:
Winning teams come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. If there was enough balls for Robinson, Allen and Cassell, there is plenty enough for Evans, Anthony and whomever else. Having Carmelo would take a lot of pressure off of Evans for stretches of games, allowing him to recharge and play better defense. The Kings hope that Landry and Cousins can be the types of players to take this pressure off of Evans but Carmelo is already that type of player and more.
Lastly, I really feel like the Kings are going to be a better team with Evans averaging 23-24 points a game than they would be if he was trying to put 27-28 points a game. Evans needs to be an elite rebounder from the point guard position. He needs to be an elite defensive player from the point guard position and he needs to improve his court vision and passing acumen. I don’t think Evans can ever be a 9-10 assist per game guy but this team will thrive if he can get above 7. So I’m kind of hoping for the 24-7-7 player who plays defense and not the 28-5-5 guy that spends all of his energy putting up offensive numbers. There is plenty of room to fit Anthony with the 24-7-7 player.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
I'd rather wait for Omri to develop
and even if he does resign with us, I’m not interested in a 3-year loan
Cousins is good but he's no mana from heaven.
The max is 5 years so...
Let’s not call that a “loan.”
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 28, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
But he's only interested in a 3-year deal
That is a loan
Cousins is good but he's no mana from heaven.
Plus the year he is already under contract so a 4 year loan which is a good amount of time in NBA years.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
by jjham15 on Aug 28, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just want someone who wants to be here for the long haul
I’m sick of people like Lebron who only sign a 3-year deal just so they can have a contingency plan just in case their team is not cutting it. In the case of Melo, it’s not like his team is horrible. The Nuggets are a playoff team and yet he decides to bail on them just because they’re not good enough to handle the [redacted], Celtics and the Heat. What happened to signing the max and trying to make yourself and your team better? The way I see it, the only reason for you to bail on your team is when management has given up and wants to rebuild.
Cousins is good but he's no mana from heaven.
I think there is a difference here.
Again, in this thread we are bringing up some of the biggest topics in the NBA in cursory conversation. IN MY OPINION, LeBron James is ruining the NBA. His “Decision” was his decision and he has every right to do what he wants to do. But that is not where this situation has ended. LeBron has pushed other NBA stars to follow his lead and make super teams. You can make your own decision on why he would do this but my feeling is, he looked like an asshole and he thinks if others do the same thing that he did, it will transform him from asshole to trend setter.
Chris Paul was the first to fall prey to this LBJ business and it was the same Chris Paul who dropped this whole leaving Denver idea at Carmelo’s wedding. The league will not be better with super teams. Plain and simple- parody is great for any league, just ask the NFL, the most powerful league in the world. If this continues; all stars converging in two or three cities, the NBA will lose its luster which is why David Stern is pushing very hard for allowances in the new CBA to severely restrict the movement of players going forward. This is exactly why Melo is trying to force the Nuggets hand now because he knows that this 3 year extension might not be available next summer so he wants his extension and his new team now.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
I'm pretty CP3 and any other player voluntarily want to form superteams, and are not cajoled into doing so
LeBron isn’t pulling any strings.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
I agree with your Shizzo
Power has opened a lane on the two way street. Fair is fair.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Correction
LeBron didn’t look like an a-hole for leaving to Miami, err, taking his talents to South Beach, LOL, he looked an a-hole for announcing His Decision as contrived ESPN special.
But top players like Bosh, LeBron, and now Melo are looking closely at how their teams are run, questioning the competency of their own GMs and owners, and surrounding talent, and acting accordingly. They are recognizing their careers have finite span, and they are trying to put themselves in best position to go deep into playoffs. I do not fault them for this.
It is a matter of respect. LeBron did not respect Dan Gilbert. And after his no-class sour grapes open letter to fans, I see why. LeBron did not respect GM Danny Ferry, nor the games of his Cavs teammates. Of course he cannot come out and say this. But if Pat Riley was GM of the Cavs and owned by Ted Arison, LeBron would have a lot more trust and faith in key decision makers around him, and would still be a Cav today.
JR Smith allegedly choked a Nugget employee recently. Guys like Kenyon Martin and Birdman have checkered pasts. The Nuggets fired a couple of team execs recently, Rex Chapman and some other dude. Coach Karl has serious health issues. So there is instability around a guy at the peak of his game. What confidence could ’Melo honestly have in the organizations ability to surround him with quality personnel?
I think this is the frame of mind of Melo, seeing peers of his caliber in Bosh, LeBron flee to perceived greener pastures. After seven years too, a business relationship tends to run its course. The ones that last is where there is mutual respect between player/owner/GM. Kobe in LA, and Dirk Nowitski in Dallas are examples.
If the Maloofs and Geoff Petrie can sell to Melo and his agent as to the quality of their organization, their commitment to winning, the competency of their staff, the potential of existing personnel, perhaps enough trust and respect can be fostered to consummate a trade and extended contract.
As to the opposition to adding Melo, I do not know if you guys were fans prior to the acquisition of C-Webb, but he was labeled as a malcontent with immaturity issues and poor leadership skills. Those concerns proved unfounded once he was surrounded with like-minded talent. Talent is king in the NBA and should take precedent as much as possible. I see a lot of parallels between C-Webb and Melo. The risk was worth taking then, and so is it now.
I predict JT puts up 7/5 next year.
by bench_blob on Aug 28, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
the C-Webb trade
rec’d for relevance. well done.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking for some parody
Plain and simple- parody is great for any league, just ask the NFL, the most powerful league in the world.
I think the word you are looking for is “parity.”
But parody is pretty terrific as well. Just ask David Kahn.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
First of all I would like to thank myself for all my hard work
This is a quote from draft day when Mello was taken number 3…. Leave him alone, we don’t need him…
I see nothing wrong with that
Honestly.
When discussing two opposing point of views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
He is selfish and not a great team player
He won’t like it in Sactown and we will loose him or be forced into a bad trade down the road…
Documentation?
If this is your opinion, fair enough. But I just can’t find anything anywhere to substantiate it.
‘Melo was 3rd amongst SF’s in points last year, 5th in boards, 4th in assists, 9th in steals. No current or former teammate or coach has ever publicly bagged on Anthony, and his team has had some pretty good success since his arrival in the NBA (.589 winning percentage in the regular season).
I agree that it would be foolish to bring him here without a contract extension in place. Beyond that, I just don’t understand some of the negative things that I have seen about Anthony. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m just trying to understand how this opinion was formed.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
we all float opinions some sink others do not
For me, I am wary of a guy who has been promoted as heavily as Carmelo. If you force me to eat something, I turn away – I can be swayed by the airplance spoon though.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 28, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
From Denver's point of view, this is probably what they're expecting in return...
For a sign and trade, probably Cousins, Landry or Dalembert, plus a future 1st round pick is what they’d want.
Umm, all that for a guy that may be a rental, I don't think so...
They may ask fo it, but they’ll never get that type of a bounty. Remmber, Denver isn’t in a position of strength here. If they play hardball and ask for too much, Melo just ends up walking.
melo is better than tyreke. melo is better than dmc. melo led team usa in ’08. melo has an underrated defense. melo can score at will. melo grabs boards better than most forwards. melo is rated as a top 5 player in the nba. come on. only problem with him coming to sac is his contract and his willingness to play here.
denver execs do love the kings, though, as a prospect because of our expiring contracts and young talent. we’d probably have to rid of landry, omri, jt, donte or beno (don’t think they’d need a dalembert) and probably a first round pick. i’m more than willing as long as he signs a longer contract (which won’t happen.)
pipe dream. lol
Melo on the Kings
Carmelo Anthony is definitely a superstar. He’s a top 15 player in the world, and despite how great Tyreke is, Melo would be the best player on the team. Carmelo isn’t an ideal fit alongside Tyreke, but if you have a chance to acquire a talent like Melo you have to do it.
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Aug 28, 2010 7:01 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I'd offer Landry, Whiteside and Casspi.
Along with a 1st rounder in 2012.
I don’t care what negative things have been said about Melo. The dude is a baller.
I think Reke, Beno, Melo, JT and Dalembert/Boogie is a ridiculous frickin starting line up.
Greene, Cisco, Boogie/Dal off the bench.
That provides an effective 8-man rotation that would beast it against almost any team. The guards can’t contain Reke, and Boogie and Melo would give opposing frountcourts fits. Add Dalembert’s D around the hoop and I see plenty of wins and a deep playoff push.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
The above is contingent on an extension being signed
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Aug 28, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this
even more than the other one they were saying.
Casspi would sting, but I’m not all that hung up on the other 2 being included in any deal.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 28, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to remember that if we traded for Melo
The person who doesn’t get traded of Donte/Casspi (because one of them likely would) would likely see about 10 minutes a game.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Well,
considering that their only other real small forward is Renaldo Balkman, I’d guess that they would get some solid PT.
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Yeah
They’d probably instantly become the starter.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Hey I feel for whoever it is
but Melo is Melo…and he is better for the Sacramento Kings starting line. Minutes are not an issue to worry about in making this choice. Someone said it yesterday: this would be like the Webber deal. You have to do it if Melo signs.
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Aug 29, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
don't include whiteside
Landry and Casspi = 2 starters. Whiteside is part of our future though as a possibly beast front court with Cousins.
by WiltonDeportes on Aug 28, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't let a Melo deal fall through because of Whiteside.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Aug 29, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hard to believe this is even in question
The dude is a baller.
The only question marks are the extension and his desire to come to Sacramento and whether we can put together a deal that will satisfy Denver. Period.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
How about a 3-way trade with Clippers?
Kings get Eric Gordon.
Clippers get Melo.
Nuggets get…?
by getPGwithbounce on Aug 28, 2010 11:25 PM PDT reply actions
Orville Wright.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Red Forman
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Aug 29, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
A Foreman Grill.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Aug 29, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
A question
Why can Anthony demand a trade, something that is acknowledged and/or hasn’t been refuted by any of the involved parties, and this isn’t a problem to the NBA?
Rudy Fernandez got fined US $ 25.000,- for public statements that were considered detrimental to the league. Statements, by the way, made by his agent, not by Fernandez himself.
So is the only difference here that Anthony’s agents didn’t do an interview for a newspaper, but leaked the matter?
Dunking Dutchman
oh great
Now you want to bring logic into it.
Here is a reference by some guy at some basketball site. There is some well known line in the sand and apparently, it was clearly crossed..
by betweentheeyes on Aug 29, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks BTE
the last line of that articvle summed it up to me.
I don’t understand Stern. Go to Anthony and these clowns, ask if they demanded a trade for Anthony. If they say yes, slap on a fine. If they say now, tell them that if they don’t send out a statement to refute these vile rumors, slap on a fine. If they do that and later the truth comes out that they lied, slap on a triple fine.
This way, your encouraging agents to abuse the rumor mill.
At least Fernandez’agent had the guts to go public.
Dunking Dutchman
Actually,
Anthony has never demanded a trade. What he has said is that he won’t be signing the extension with the Nuggets, and he has seemingly provided a list of preferred destinations to the Nuggets should they decide to trade him. In this respect, he is giving Denver a lot more wiggle room than James did with Cleveland. I’m not saying that this means that he is a great guy, but what he has done is clearly communicate his position with the Nuggets. And with that, he has never threatened not to play this year or sit out or tank it. This is a huge difference from the Fernandez situation, where Fernandez has not returned calls from Blazers brass, has told them that he is not showing up and would really prefer to leave the NBA – and yes, if your agent says it, it is the same as you saying it, right up to the point that you fire that agent.
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by section214 on Aug 29, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Fernandez is fined for public statements detrimental to the league
made by his agens, not for screening his calls or for whatever he said to the Blazers.
So where do you draw the line where a player is responsible for his agent’s actions. If the agent sits courtside and starts a brawl with his player’s nemesis/competitor/whatever, the player gets suspended?
Or, more nuanced, what when the agent says: “Well Rudy is still happy here and really hopes to be a meaningful contributor next season, but I think the Blazers treat him like sh*t and they are ruining each chance of moving forward. Personally, I think Rudy is better of going back to Spain.”?
I get your point about Anthony. That is indeed an important difference.
Dunking Dutchman
rules is rules
not unlike having your accountant fill out a poor tax form, you are the responsible party. He is your representative, just like a sports agent.
The most ridiculous to me is the NCAA. They hold universities and teams responsible for the acts of college athletes. Appropriate in theory, not in reality.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 29, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
If the NCAA ever levied the fines against (for instance) against Derrick Rose or OJ Mayo...
…how many of these young guys will keep coming to the NCAA for a year? 10? 15? 20?
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There's a big difference here
Fernandez’ agent is directly quoted. This whole thing with Anthony has basically been veiled and third-person. You can’t fine Anthony just because Woj or Amico write about it. And while you and I know that the Anthony camp is making their point clear, they have not overtly taken this public. And now that Denver is putting out feelers, it becomes double tough to hold Anthony or his people accountable for the conversation that is taking place.
The biggest difference here is that Anthony is not threatening to violate his contract, while Fernandez has.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Also, keep in mind
Anthony and his camp don’t need to say anything other than “I’m not signing an extension” for the Nuggets to get the picture. He’s saying he doesn’t want to be in Denver and is willing to test free agency in the worst possible offseason to do it.
From that point it would not surprise me at all if it were the Nuggets asking what team he prefers, knowing that most teams won’t want to trade a whole lot without him signing an extension first and that he won’t sign an extension for a team he doesn’t want to play for.
Maybe a bigger factor
Do the Maloofs have the financial wherewithal to speed up the timetable and be competitive now? Nothing they have done lately indicates they are ready to do what it takes to win now. They probably need to buy some more time and see the economy improve before playing with the big boys.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
If he can be had for cheap, even as a year rental
then they’ll have the financial wherewithal to speed up the timetable because the Kings will be competitive quicker and will be profitable sooner.
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