Why the Kings trading for Rudy Fernandez Makes Sense
by ThatFGuy916 on Aug 4, 2010 2:16 PM PDT
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Why Rudy makes Sense...
With an off-season like few others that have ever been seen in NBA History the Kings small-market team has been rather quite on the free-agency scene. I've followed the Kings closely for the past twenty some odd years and while being a fan win, lose, or tie (I know the NBA doesn't do ties) I have always tried to keep a realistic sense of things in sports as a whole. No i'm not the trade happy or free-agent flash signing type of fan(s) that are out there and refuse to add logic to their suggestion but more so a true fan of sport and the intangibles that make players and teams great that usually is seen by those who have played the sport. That being said I would like my fellow Kings fans and others to take a look a player move that makes sense and may be do-able and give me your suggestion on if you would try it or not.
While it's no big secret that Geoff Petri is one of the most play it close to the vest GM's in the League and that few if any have any true idea of what he may be looking at as far a roster moves you have to at least think the Great Petri has had a crossing thought of acquiring the talented swingman. If you recall the Kings have held true to this year's off-season motto of not over spending in free agency (see Pooh Jeter and Antonie Wright signings) to fill depth needs that they stated must be addressed. Those needs being adding another ball-handler, outside shooting, and guard depth.
Enter Rudy Fernandez...
Rudy Fernandez who has been a fan favorite in Portland has voiced his desire to be dealt or return to his native Spain if he is not. While this may be feuled by money or contractual issues many believe its behind a lack of a clear definition of his role with the team. Many would assume that once Martel Webster was dealt during the draft that opened the door for Rudy to take those 6th man minutes that opened up with his departure. At least until Luke Babbitt was drafted. With Nicolas Batum expected to have an even bigger role this year and Luke Babbitt being coveted by the team for his versitility where they fill he can play a big 2-guard, 3, or small 4 Rudy's role has became a little foggy as to what he actually will be.
The Kings who are being tabbed as one of the young talented teams on the rise are still at a point where talent acquistion is a big need and Rudy if nothing else has shown he is a legitimate NBA talent. Stats can often be misleading when evaluating a player especially when his minutes aren't consistant due to a talent logjam at his position. Rudy has shown a consistant outside shot even with a decrease in his 3pt percentage last season. His ability to play up-tempo and in the half court along side a big ball dominate guard (Brandon Roy) makes him an Ideal pairing for Tyreke and his skill set. But what makes him most intriguing to me is the fact he would be a capable starter at the 2-guard and allow for an even deeper bench featuring two starting worthy guards in Beno and Cisco or can come off the bench and play with either. Period point blank he allows for versitility in the line-up. While his defense still needs some work he has plenty of time to continue to develope in that area (25 years old).
So what do the Kings have to offer for him? Well in not giving up too much you have a few options, the best in my eyes with the newest acquistions would be packaging Antoine Wright (who they may not even want if he decided to sign with Sac meaning low value) and a pair of 2nd round picks. But if they would like more package Wright with a future 1st rounder (and by future I mean 3 to 4 years out). Given there may be much better offers on the table from contending teams the potential growth he has with an up and comer may outweight a reserve role with another team where starting may never be an option for him. Kings faithful what are your thoughts?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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You can't package Wright...
Unable to trade FA for a certain time.
I agree that we could use Rudy, but not sure what to give up… Protected 2012 1st Rounder and D-Jack’s expired deal would be a smarter option.
Dec 15th is when Wright can be traded.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think this is about the 4th fanpost this summer about Rudy Fernandez.
So it’s been discussed. A lot.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 4, 2010 3:04 PM PDT reply actions
Give him a break.
We’re lucky to get more than 1 post a day these days.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 4, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Dang right Cheesy
I could read about Rudy all day, every day for weeks on end. In fact I hereby propose Rudy Week, where every day someone creates a new fanpost about Rudy Fernandez.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
Ooops sorry, wrong Rudy
Never mind
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
This movie inspired me never to work in a steel mill.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 5, 2010 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
Is this the StR version of Shark Week?
Rudy is quite deadly in NBA 2k10.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 6, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't being mean.
He just joined. He probably doesn’t know. He can go into the old fanposts to read the previous discussions and be edified.
Besides, I think fanposting is more about quality than quantity. Not that this wasn’t a well-written piece, but it was the same as the others, with no new, exciting spin.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 4, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
What?!!!
LPA isn’t going to critique the spelling and puntuation? ☺
There are some bones to be picked.
And yet I agree, Rudy has been talked to death.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You spelled punctuation wrong.
PWNED!
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 4, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Kind of like all your comments ...
but it was the same as the others, with no new, exciting spin.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Says the guy who changed his name so that people wouldn’t think he was the same old jerk.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 4, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
He is a jerk, isn't he...
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 5, 2010 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
To make a move or not
There is some debate on Rudy the player and how worthy of he is as a piece of the Kings puzzle.
I think the more frequent question in fans’ minds is if it is really worth it and necessary. The Kings have so much development ahead of them, on can say that, whether they like Rudy or not, timing is not right to make a deal (let alone giving up the necessary assets to aquire him). A few questions arise:
1. What happens to Francisco, who is on the books for 3 more years?
2. How will his play mesh with Beno (who is here for 4 more years) in a defenceless backcourt?
3. Is he the exact fit we want to start next to Tyreke for the next year?
My thinking is, though i am high on him as a player, we should not trade for Rudy because we do not NEED to make a move right now for him. The Kings have the unique luxury of waiting for the perfect compliment to Tyreke and aquire him when the time is right.
Personally, I think someone in the mold of James Harden is exactly what we need.
Defenseless back court?
Tyreke ring a bell? Cisco’s not a bad defender, himself. Donte’s basing his game purely off defense.
New to fanposting
Hey you guys are right I am very very new to this thing and wasn’t aware of the previous post about the topic. But as since we are on it, isn’t there something to be said about re-occuring topics as far as it being a solid idea? I can agree with Fromdeep about waiting on the perfect peice to come along but the question is how long do you wait? The reason I see him as a good move at the moment is because generally you can obtain 2nd round picks in the NBA for little to nothing and at this point we aren’t even sure who will be the starter next to Tyreke. Personally I’ve felt for a long time that Cisco can be a quality starting 2 but I love his value off the bench. I’m sure other 2’s will come along in the draft but at what point do you look for vetrans that know how to play the NBA game? I also believe this coaching staff is able to teach and instill the defensive philosphy you need to play defense with Bigs that can block shots.
It would have made sense to trade the Brockness for him, but now that he's gone I don't know what Portland could possibly want.
Donte/Omri/future 1st rounders are too precious because Rudy may well bolt for Europe after this season.
What else is left?
I didn't even read your post.
Not trying to be rude. I’m sure it’s great but I don’t need to be convinced on Rudy Fernandez. I love the idea of adding him. I would give up a top 20 protected pick.
To me it doesn’t matter if he is a good backcourt mate for Tyreke because this team needs a 3 point specialist wether it’s starting or off the bench. He would be a perfect complement to the team no matter what. He is also cheap & young so why not?
Cisco will be fine & we need depth. This team seems to have problems staying healthy I’ve heard.
I love beating dead horses.
I'm not convinced he gets any more playing time here
than he did in PDX, his major complaint.
Do we need a guy who’ll whine about minutes when we may already have that problem with our now full frontcourt?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure Geoff could ASK him if he wanted to come first.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Aug 5, 2010 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Injuries are so last year....
Have you not heard, the new trend is staying healthy! Get with the time’s, sheesh you would think that you like beating dead horses or something.
"If my aunt had a set of nuts, she'd be my uncle"
God I hope you're right...
For the sake of both of our teams.
"Batum must be french for: being at the right place at the right time" -
-StudMuffin15 @ Rufus On Fire
"Juwan "The Clipper Killer" Howard" - Natedog1977 @ ClipsNation
" I would trade our entire team for Brandon Roy"
- Slick4President @ Indy Cornrows
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Aug 5, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
My take, cut and pasted from the FanShot of last week -
Fernandez is a career 41% shooter, 39% from 3, while Garcia is 44% and 37%, respectively (and Garcia has shot 39-40% from 3 each of his last 3 years). Garcia steals at a slightly higher rate, blocks shots at a much higher rate, while Fernandez possesses the better assist/turnover ratio.
The big difference? Garcia is the consumate teammate, while Fernandez mopes about his minutes while playing on a playoff team. Whoever has Fernandez is going to have to determine whether or not they want to pick up his $2.2 million option for 2011-12, and they will also have to deal with a guy that has made noises that he wants to go home. He’s an unhappy chucker – Noc, with a cheaper deal.
Now, someone could argue that he is better than Garcia, and perhaps argue it successfully. But he is not so much better that I’d want to deal with the baggage to obtain him, especiallly that the trade off for such a marginal upgrade is that you have rendered the higher priced (and not easily moved) Garcia obsolete. There are 96 minutes to be had at the guard position, and ‘Reke is going to have at least 36 of those. Give 30 to Udrih, and that leaves 30 minutes. Fernandez is not happy getting 23 minutes on a playoff team, so to make him happy you’re going to have to park Garcia at the end of the bench…unless you’re going to let him dig into the 48 minutes that Casspi and Greene are splitting.
Fernandez is just a bad fit for this team at this time – more trouble than his alleged talent is worth, in my opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 4, 2010 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Nice argument
I only worry about injuries. We have 1 or 2 key injuries per year. If Reke, Beno, or Cisco go down we are screwed. But you are right if everyone stays healthy he could be a problem. We could always deal him at the deadline like we did sergio
I love beating dead horses.
Again, agreed
Basically, if you pick him up, you need to play him at Cisco’s expense.
Or screw both of them and alternate them for a while and then give one of them most of the minutes.
I think we are going to eventually replace Cisco anyway or maybe he will become a backup at the 3 (and sometimes the 2) if one of Omri and Donte emerges and the odd man out is traded.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Seems like the general assumption
Is that Rudy would be a backup. Isn’t it at least a possibility that he could beat out Udrih for the starting spot? Rudy and Beno could even run together when Tyreke is getting a blow. I think enough minutes could be found to make Rudy happy. And you’re right- the loser in this scenario is Francisco, because I also would not want him cutting in to minutes at the 3. So, I suppose it all boils down to who helps the team the most with those minutes, Rudy or Cisco. Tough call, but I’d like to give Rudy a shot. He’s young, relatively cheap and would a lot easier to move than Francisco if it didn’t work out.
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The problem for me is
that if he is better, it’s likely to be a miniscule amount, and that’s not enough reason to render Garcia obsolete, in my opinion (or to have Garcia pick up some minutes at the 3 at the expense of Omri and Donté).
Fernandez has highlight reel ability, but he has been wildly inconsistent. He blames that on his role. The Blazers point to his inconsistency as to why his role is what it is.
I have no problem with us trying to get better in the backcourt. But if we’re going to do it, let’s make sure that (a) we are 100% certain that we are getting better, and (b) we have a plan for alleviating the new logjam that will have been created.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 6, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Risk/Reward
Rudy could totally flame out, OR be a good to very good starter on an up and coming team who we got for next to nothing. I love what Cisco brings to the team, but I just don’t see him as a starter, which Rudy could be, but we wouldn’t know that unless we brought him in.
There’s always risk, so it always seems to circle back to the risk/reward model. I think the reward in Rudy’s case is worth the risk- a potential starter for years to come. I’m not a trade/capologist guru by any stretch of the imagination, but if it didn’t pan out, how hard would it be to get rid of Rudy?
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Yeah -
I think the difference here is that you think a lot more of Fernandez than I do, and you may be right. I just have seen nothing in his overall game (factoring in his highs and lows) that gets me all that excited.
As far as the risk is concerned, I just don’t think that this young roster needs to bring in any guys that are already unhappy about their playing time on a contending team. To me, either Fernandez is either going to be more unhappy sitting on the bench for a non-contending team, or he’s going to be happier in spite of the fact that he is on a non-contending team because he is playing more. Either way, I don’t like it. I think that he’s not going to happy until he is back in the Euro League. I could be dead wrong, but that’s how I see it. He’s just not the right fit for this team at this time, in my opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 6, 2010 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Petrie = Section
I was going to ask you if you at least thought he wasn’t worth taking a flier on, but then I thought what part of “No!!!” am I not getting? lol. I think Petrie and you are of like mind here and it doesn’t appear that we’ll see any more moves heading in to camp. Still fun to ponder as I peer out my window at Arco Arena, and what the hell else do have to do until training camp?
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Why does anyone need to lose minutes in this matter?
The whole reason of suggesting this move is because Minutes are available. I keep hearing that Cisco will lose minutes with this move which doesn’t make sense to me because the whole point of having a hole in the backcourt is because you need someone to step in and play minutes be it a starter or a back up in our teams case. At the moment you have Tyreke who the team wants as the starting Point Guard and Beno as the only other NBA experience true point guard on the roster (not counting pooh jeter) which leaves Cisco as the only True Shooting or Two Guard on the roster less a Donte Greene who I like to develope there but the team wants at SF. So please explain why we wouldn’t be able to work both Cisco and Rudy in that 2 guard spot leaving Beno and Tyreke as Point Guards? Keep in mind Cisco can play with and without the ball so pairing him with Reke works just as well as it does with Beno or Rudy for that matter.
Between PG and SG you have 96 minutes
’Reke takes 36 of those, so you are left with 60 to split between Udirh and and Garcia (not taking into account minutes at the point for Jeter or at the 2 for Greene). So unless/until Evans/Garcia/Udrih get injured, minutes would be very limited.
Throw small forward into the mix, and the available minutes do not improve, as you have Casspi and Greened splitting the 48 minutes there (Garcia and Antoine Wright not withstanding).
Fernandez was unhappy while getting 24 minutes a game. I just don’t see how he picks up more minutes here with the current roster as assembled.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I hear your logic but...
Tyreke played that many minutes because he has to with no other talent able to sustain what he does on the court. And you seem like you know your fair share of ball so lets be honest in saying that if it were that simple Beno wouldn’t of had several games of 40 mins when all three were healthy. Keep in mind while superstars usually average about 36 mins a game or more Westphal has said in the past he would like to give Beno and Tyreke more of a break but with a lack of ball handler’s that makes it tough. Plus its not like Cisco complains about mins as it is when he is healthy. I’m not doubting 24 mins in Sac would be less appealing than 24 mins in Portland but if Portland carved out that many mins per game for him with more talent than what we have around him don’t you think the Kings can work out around 30 mins for him in a rotation? And even if it isn’t the idea of Starting and carving out those minutes for himself could be appealing. Is the ideal of having a truly deep bench that hard to fathom when you look at how rosters are being stacked in the current NBA? Most playoff teams have at least two guys coming off the bench that could or should start. Usually they aren’t both in the backcourt but if it happens isn’t that a good problem to have? (Beno and Cisco haven’t complained about not starting mind you)
Again, I don't see it
Evans is going to get his 36. If you give Fernandez 30, you’re leaving 30 for Udrih and Garcia to split up. And for all of this, I don’t know how we got better as a team. As gtbasset notes just below, Fernandez did not like his role behind/alongside Roy. How is he going to like it any better behind/alongside Evans?
I think this simply comes down to you thinking a lot more of Fernandez’ game than I do, and that’s fine. You’re certainly not alone in your opinion, as the poll shows. But for me, he does not make the Kings appreciably better, and he devalues Udrih and Garcia in the process. I’ll continue to take a pass.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think the Kings are looking at a complementary G in the draft as their next piece.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Rudy is not a PG
He’s purely an SG. He showed flashes of greatness, mostly his rookie year, but a couple games this year too, I do believe that in a different, faster paced system, he could thrive to the point of being a starter. But not on your team…
You have Tyreke Evans, whom I view as Brandon Roy Jr. he’s got a similar game, plays the same position, ROY etc. etc. Why would Rudy, who’s unhappy playing behind BRoy, be happy to play behind BRoy 2.0?
Honestly, if I were the Kings, I would stand pat and just see how this season goes. Your pieces are in place, Just let it play out then evaluate where you need to upgrade at the trade deadline/offseason.
by gtbassett on Aug 7, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
As long as we're rehashing ideas in fanposts...
I’d rather have Adam Morrison.
"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"
by Schneezel on Aug 4, 2010 8:31 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Welcome
Not bad at all for a first fanpost, even though the matter has been discussed frequently.
Rudy is too one-dimensional, and that’s why I’ll vote no. I also think that he may leave the NBA and go back to Spain if he thinks he doesn’t get enough minutes/love.
Dunking Dutchman
someone please tell me
why do you want Rudy when we already have Garcia? Rudy is more athletic, but Garcia is better in every other facet of the game.
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
I agree Garcia is the more developed all around player. I'm simply saying that I think to have both would be golden when you have a hole at the two-guard spot.
I’m simply saying that I think to have both would be golden when you have a hole at the two-guard spot. Last I checked Cisco is quality starting or coming off the bench but lets stay honest here Cisco hasn’t made it through a full season in how long? Insurance is invaluable especially when the talent drop off isn’t too significant.
But that insurance is only worthwhile having if the policy pays off
Fernandez is unhappy with his role in Portland. I don’t see any way (barring injuries) that Fernandez gets an expanded role here, and that’s going from a contending to a non-contending team. I just don’t see how he’s going to be happier here than he is in Portland, and it is his unhappiness that has Portland looking to deal him.
Oh, and Garcia played 79 of 82 games in 06-07 and 79 games in 07-08. He missed the first 17 games of 08-09 and then played in every game for the remainder of the season. Back out the freak Physioball injury, and he’s been pretty damn sturdy.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The problem is
You can’t take that injury away. Now the big question is: has he fully recovered from it to at least flash his old form? Last year wasn’t encouraging, but that’s not surprising.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Good point
If Garcia has not recovered, then that changes the need for Fernandez. But in that situation, the injury would basically (and permanently?) be taking Garcia out of the rotation.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Which in my opinion is why you can't make a decision like this
until the season starts. My guess is that the team and trainers know how Garcia is doing. But you still have to see him in extended minutes to know how completely he has recovered the motion in his wrist. If at that point you still see a problem, then look for a replacement. Unless it is a very short term deal (one year) and/or a player comfortable with a back up role. Personally, I don’t expect scoring to be a big problem for this team.
"And I never said I don’t like KMart. I just don’t think the duo is good for the team. They are essentially two of the same player"
Sammyp831.
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