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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Where the Downtown Kings Arena Plan Stands

The negative consultant report outlined by Tony Bizjak in today's Sacramento Bee certainly tosses a boulder at the plans for a three-way land swap that would result in moving Cal Expo to the current ARCO Arena site and building a new Kings arena downtown. (Read that story, else the rest of this post will read like Latin.)

But it was expected that something like this would happen eventually. It's a mad convoluted plan. It's complex in every way. And enough people are wary (rightfully in some cases, on impulse in others) that it was expected this would not be a 1-2-3-Done! procedure.

Thankfully, this particular developer -- Gerry Kamilos -- is more on the ball than any other person ever involved in Kings arena negotiations. He already submitted a modified plan that appears to allay the central complaint made by Cal Expo's consultant, that complaint being financial assurance.

Of course, to allay that concern, Kamilos' plan is wildly different than the original. In what way? A separate company would run the expo grounds year-round, handing it over to the state for the fair. The state would own the land, but would effectively have a permanent lease out to the company. I'm not sure that's what the fair has in mind.

We'll see how it goes. While the new developments add months (maybe a year) onto the timeline for the project, we could get a sense fairly quickly of where the Cal Expo management sits on the issue. Will they listen to their consultant and crush the whole thing? Will they listen to Kamilos' new plan? Only time will tell.

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Where'd you get the details about the revised plan?

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 15, 2010 1:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Not seeing where it says about a separate company running the expo grounds, etc.

Just thought maybe you had another source or a different article that had more details, was eager to learn more.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 15, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last week, Sacramento Convergence LLC modified its proposal to Cal Expo. VisionMaker Worldwide, part of the Convergence team, offers to privately operate the fairgrounds, including the three weeks of the annual State Fair, for 30 years.

by Tom Ziller on Sep 16, 2010 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, your link in the post goes to an article from Tuesday that doesn't include that info.

Mustang linked below to the Wednesday article with that extra info that I was interested in.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 16, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Argh!

I could have sworn I swapped the link out once I realized I had the earlier version. Sorry about that.

by Tom Ziller on Sep 16, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would recommend "Google News"

It only searches news sources. Relying on the Bee is just not sufficient. There are other sources, like the Business Journal, that show up on The Google with more detailed information.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

blast you are screwing up your posts vs. comments ratio

You are now stuck back at 3 less posts than comments. I really thought this would be the week “posts” would beat out “comments.”

Hey, why is everyone looking at me like a creeper? What do you mean this isn’t normal behavior? And what the heck is a restraining order?

by wallywagon11 on Sep 15, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

considering I don't plan on writing 8367 posts in the near future

gotta root for someone else, especially when they have cracked the 4000 range (with all seriousness that is insanely impressive and I don’t care how many of them are fanshots)

by wallywagon11 on Sep 15, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, pretty ridiculous of me if I had been serious at all, which I wasn't.

And I wholeheartedly agree. Insanely impressive.

I was thinking that you might win for most comments and the fewest posts though, but then realized that Pookey has 334 posts with a total of 73579 comments. So, he is kicking your butt. His rate is .0045 to your own of 1.195. It would be interesting to see if anybody had more comments than him.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow over 73,000

that’s a lot of game threads right there

by wallywagon11 on Sep 16, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

And more time wasted than I care to count.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Sep 16, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

You need to lighten up. Seriously.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Sep 16, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Uhm.. That was a joke.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okey.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Sep 16, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

An additional roadblock

TZ, you didn’t mention the additional roadblock also found in the Bee today… the Railyards developer is having serious financial issues. While even if the Railyards arena site is city-owned, much of the infrastructure req’d to make the site viable is to be funded by the developer and some state and fed funds tied to the development. The whole thing is a house of cards and its starting to look more shakey then when first proposed. Honestly, if the economy doesn’t rebound, this deal is not likely to happen… on the other hand, other options for relocation become problematic too.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Sep 15, 2010 1:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Bears watching what?

When discussing two opposing point of views, the truth often lies somewhere in the middle.

by Exhibit G on Sep 16, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to ignore that

so I don’t burst an artery in the ensuing melee.

For the 2,000th time: leave your politics on Free Republic. Not welcome here.

by Tom Ziller on Sep 16, 2010 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure how much Thomas Enterprise's problems would affect the actual arena development.

As you say, the arena would go on the city-owned part of the land. I believe the huge transit hub that is planned will also be built behind the current train station regardless of Thomas’ issues. Both of those areas are pretty much on the edge of the greater “Railyards” area, the edge bordering downtown. The accessibility of that part of the land isn’t really affected by whatever else gets built on the rest of the Railyards land, and I believe they’ve already build a couple of roads across the Railyards connecting downtown with Richards Blvd.

The financial problems of Thomas Enterprises sucks for the overall development of the entire Railyards area and it certainly delays the complete build-out, but they could move forward on the arena even if Thomas loses the rest of the land to the bank that loaned them all that money, or however it works. Regardless, something will get built on all that land at some point, and someone will make a lot of money from that development. If there’s an arena on the edge of it, that development will likely move a lot quicker and be shaped differently than if there was no arena, but ultimately “The Railyards Development” and “The Railyards Arena” are separate, though linked, processes.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 15, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

solved.

easy solution for the funding. we hitch the arena and railyard development to Ahhnold’s new bullet train. state pays for the whole thing. only downside is there will be a slight delay a few times a game as the train passes through the center of the court.

by Madzillagd on Sep 16, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah! Bump in the road! everybody freak out!

Eh, not really that big of a deal. Like Ziller said, this stuff is to be expected. It’ll take them a while to refine/perfect the plan.

Dip til I rip

by Muff209 on Sep 15, 2010 1:40 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I'm not even sure that this isn't the same bump, just getting run over again.

Wasn’t there a similar story not too long ago where we learned that the report was not going to be good but they asked to hold off on releasing the information until a second look could be had at the report?

There is no doubt that Cal Expo is playing hardball and will continue to do so until they have something similar to the Taj Mahal built in Natomas. For small city thinkers, they sure are driving a tough bargain.

I like the pro-active nature of the developer, but again, I think this is why they asked for the report not to be released earlier so they could come up with plan B or C or H…… By telling Cal Expo that this whole thing can work out if they will only release their stake in the property for the other 300+ days of the year, the developer appears to be singling out those folks as the greedy squeaky wheel, trying to take advantage of the situation. If it a fair grounds then fine, we will build your dream fair grounds for the 3 or 4 weeks a year you need it. If it is more than a fair grounds, then stop crying foul because you are going to make a lot of cash off of that property year round.

The world is not your Trade Machine.

-Ziller

by jjham15 on Sep 15, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, this was expected.

The earlier reports were that the Expo consultants was going to state it wasn’t a good deal and propose selling a small piece of land. Basically what just got released.

As you say, this is tough bargaining. Though if it was really hard ball they would have released the report without giving Kamilos time to prepare a response. Giving the developer time to respond and then releasing the report kind of shows, at least to me, that this isn’t dead. Just negotiating.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 15, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure take my fanpost Ziller..I see how you are

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Sep 15, 2010 4:14 PM PDT reply actions  

CalExpo should get on board.

Pretty significant sweetener added to the deal:

Last week, Sacramento Convergence LLC modified its proposal to Cal Expo. VisionMaker Worldwide, part of the Convergence team, offers to privately operate the fairgrounds, including the three weeks of the annual State Fair, for 30 years.

VisionMaker, an Orange-based company that was founded by executives of Walt Disney Co. and Universal Studios, designs, develops and operates entertainment centers and resorts worldwide.

VisionMaker would offer bridge financing, absorb any shortfall from State Fair operations and eliminate the state’s construction costs.

In addition, VisionMaker and Convergence propose to add 27 acres to the original 184-acre proposal in Natomas that they would acquire and develop. That would make the acreage in Natomas comparable to what Cal Expo would have if it stayed at its current site and sold off some land to pay for a facility upgrade.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 15, 2010 5:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

booya

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Sep 15, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Again, that's from a different article, right? Or am I missing a second page somewhere of the article linked in this post?

Someone Google this for me!

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 15, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

ya different article

here

Umm... I thought we were officially referring to Voison as the Chick Replacing Amick at the Paper? or CRAP, for short.

by sac_faithful on Sep 15, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great, thanks, further confusion averted.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 15, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, yes it is. Should have posted it.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 15, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually

This is it

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 15, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Expo people are bone heads if they don't work something out

 - oh, wait . . . .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Sep 15, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Relying on the same people that accept 15 million in losses to make a good decision isn’t too reassuring…

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

consultants

Cal Expo has been sitting on those 125 acres for decades and have not done anything productive with that land. Give it to the developers so they can build, grow the tax base, provide jobs, etc.

by askhung on Sep 16, 2010 12:34 AM PDT reply actions  

I was just talking about that myself

The Cal Expo board has no real motivation to do anything. It is easier to sit back and just keep doing the same thing. I am not always a fan of capitalism, but it does mobilize resources and get things done.

There is no financial incentive for a public effort to get this done and, in this case, the public effort has failed, resulted in annual operating deficits, and there has been no progress to change that. So, I agree that getting developers into the mix should provide some results.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Consulting...

Those who walk on eggshells rarely leave footprints.

by SierraSpartan on Sep 16, 2010 7:57 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Cal Expo

Same old mess, same old fun.

Might as well change the name of the city to Same-ramento .

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 16, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

I think it's over

I really think Cal Expo will pull the plug on the whole thing at that board meeting next week. Since the consultant has recommended a viable plan to stay put at the same location, that is going to be the safe route to take and simply put, that is what they will opt for. I would love for the whole thing to work out, but I think it’s as good as dead.

by EJ08 on Sep 16, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

All I know for sure is that Kamilos and others who stand to make millions in this are going to do their damndest to convince Cal Expo to play ball

along with Mayor Johnson, who is tying his reputation pretty firmly to this plan. I volunteer to serve as a Mayoral Goon if needs be.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 16, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I actually think that the Cal Expo board should be held more accountable

We are in bad financial times and they are running deficits. In any organization that is not acceptable. Losing millions of (public) dollars should not be tolerated. If they don’t accept this plan and go there own way they should be given a strict timeline to complete the project and revitalize or the board should all be required to resign. Period.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know we’re not allowed to get into politics around here, but isn’t “losing millions of (public) dollars” without completing projects within a specific timeline pretty much the modern definition of Guvmint in California?

(ducks banhammer thrown by Ziller)

Those who walk on eggshells rarely leave footprints.

by SierraSpartan on Sep 16, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah ducking is a good idea...

And I don’t think that is fair to say. Maybe it was, but not anymore.

When state workers (cautionary note: one who is a moderator on this site I do believe) are getting wages cut by 15% and you have programs being cut 10% across the board one year or wholesale the next it is probably not a good idea to say talk about business as usual in Guvmint. What is going on is not anything remotely like business as usual.

California Government has seen massive cuts due to the budget and people (who are already underpaid) losing a lot of their income and we just set a record for going without a signed budget, but we have Cal Expo losing millions? How is that OK? How can they justify not accepting an offer that resolves this issue? That is the context of this issue.

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...

by MustangMBS on Sep 16, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

If sacramento cant build a new arena you cant really blame the Kings for leaving.

This city is full of close minded people that have no future vision for this city .

by 9K1NGS6 on Sep 16, 2010 12:06 PM PDT reply actions  

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