30Q: Is the Key Big Enough?
We're asking 30 questions about the Kings' 2010-11 season.
Just two years ago, the coach of the Kings (that'd be Reggie Theus) complained that outside of Ron Artest, a player on the fringe of the team's plans and a sure bet to be tradebait, Sacramento had no players to throw the ball to. A brouhaha erupted as this was widely perceived as an insult tossed at one Kevin Martin, who many felt had been the team's best player over the preceding 2007-08 season.
Ignoring the controversy behind the nature of Theus' comments, the coach had argued he meant that, outside of Artest, the Kings had no one to give the ball to in the post. This -- this specific statement or (perhaps) complaint -- was dead-on accurate. The Kings had no one to play the post. The pivots were Mikki Moore, a set shooter with lobster claws for hands and a frame more spindly than a treble cleg; Brad Miller, less athletic at age 19 and 20 than Kevin Willis at age 47; and Spencer Hawes, a budding 19-year-old with skills, swagger and a complete lack of strength, rendering his post skills and swagger unusable against all post defenders outside of Pau Gasol, Brad Miller and Mikki Moore. The guards were Martin, who has never been accused of hogging the potato salad, and Beno Udrih, a lefty magician who likes physical contact less than does Christine O'Donnell.
Artest was indeed traded that summer, for Donté Greene and an Israeli cyborg to be named later. No beef other than lottery pick Jason Thompson was brought in to replace Ron-Ron. And outside Thompson's phenomenal work in securing the Jammin' James Bailey Hacker of the Year Award, the Kings were as close to haphephobic as any team in memory. The Kings had no one to throw the ball to in the post, and only Martin regularly attacked the paint, resulting in an absurd number of free throws by few lay-ups or (gasp!) dunks.
(Note: this didn't exactly bear out in the data, as the Kings were middle-of-the-pack in the frequency in which their shots came at the rim. I would like to project this on Martin's attacking, as well as Thompson's electric offensive rebound/putback game, the too-hot-for-TV Bobby Brown experiment, a dose of Shelden Williams, Bobby Jackson, not to mention Hawes' unfailing program of at least trying to become a low post big man.)
The acquisition of Tyreke Evans changed things dramatically. As is noted in every third comment thread at Sactown Royalty, Evans led the league in lay-ups attempted last season. As a -- check his I.D.! -- 20-year-old rookie. While Evans didn't play in the post as often as some would have liked, his repeated dribble-drives served as a de facto post game for the Kings through February. A post game works in demanding defensive attention near the rim, theoretically leaving shooters open from outside and weakside scorers available in the paint. Reke's dribble-drive game does the same thing.
The Kings enjoyed the new reality in the paint, even enough it didn't necessarily vault the team up the standings. Then, Martin was traded for Carl Landry. Landry was a beastly post scorer off the bench for Houston, racking up an absurd 8.1 attempts at the rim per 40 minutes in the first half of last season. (Evans, a higher-usage player, was at 9 rim shots/40 last season.) When the trade was executed, Evans and Paul Westphal alike commented that it'd be good to have a post scorer help balance the offense with Evans' play from a guard position.
Only it didn't work like that. Evans, a less accurate shooter than Dick Cheney and Plaxico Burress combined, continued to drive, to shoot in the paint. Landry turned into a mid-range jump shooter. In Houston last season, Landry took about 2.85 shots at the rim for every long (16-23 foot) jumper. In Sacramento, he took (almost exactly) one rim shot for every one long jumper.
When he joined Tyreke, a paint scorer, Landry went from post scorer to jump shooter. Instead of bolstering the post game, the combination of Evans and Landry served to dilute the lesser of the two, and push him away from the rim.
Luckily for the Kings, Landry is a good shooter: he hit 44 percent of shots from 16-23 feet, a strong mark. But, of course, shots at the rim are more valuable -- they draw fouls more frequently and go through the hoop at the higher rate. (Landry's 70 percent conversion rate at the rim is far from surprising.) There's just a huge difference in the effectiveness of long jumpers and lay-ups. No surprise, really.
Is Landry's backtracking reversible? When Landry and Evans play together -- as they figure to do in large doses this season -- can Landry remain a significant post presence? Or is this a physical necessity? Is it spacially infeasible to keep Landry in the post and Evans on a boulevard to the rim?
And, perhaps most centrally of all, where does DeMarcus Cousins fit?
Cousins was drafted with the intent of creating a fatal guard-big pairing, a duo to rival all NBA duos. This is not hyperbole; this is what we all cheered for when Kahn picked Wes, when Stern read the card with a hint of whimsy. "The Kings select ... DeMarcus Cousins." BOOM. Kobe-Shaq. Magic-Kareem. Cousy-Russell. We saw the future, and it was wonderful.
I, for one, didn't see the journey, didn't catch the section of the blueprint that explained how exactly Reke's big flying body careening toward the rim and Boogie's big static body dominating the area around the rim were going to coexist, going to help each other thrive. Luckily, we (or Mr. Westphal and Mr. Petrie, more precisely) have a few spits of time to figure that out.
In the meantime, how Evans and Landry work together (or not) could be a decent indication of where this caravan's headed.
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I wish someone from the Kings' coaching staff
would read the analysis regarding Evans and Landry. Good stuff.
It all depends...
…on whether or not Tyreke can get that jumpshot to fall. If he can make that a strong part of his game, rather than the weakest one, Landry (and Boogie) will get more opportunities at the rim.
I think that even if Reke becomes a better perimeter player, he probably still won’t be a perimeter-oriented player. Even if his jumper becomes average, he’ll still be above-average at getting to the rim. So, I think it does not all depend on whether Tyreke can get his jumper to fall. It depends on other things, too. I would say it more depends on how Westphal uses them in the offense and how well they respond to it.
One really cool thing about Boogie being post-oriented and a great rebounder and finisher will Tyreke driving and dishing to him, and putting away Reke missed layups.
It’ll be great to see how it plays out. Seems like someone – likely Casspi – is going to see lots of open looks.
Of course, driving will remain a large part of Tyreke’s game; however, if his perimeter game develops, he will take more—not most, but more—shots from the outside and therefore clear space in the middle for Landry and Boogie. Right?
I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one’s self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one’s own powers.
--Holmes, on Modesty
by Donovan Jeska on Sep 20, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
He needs to learn to hit jumpers to clear space for himself, more than for anyone else.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Sure
It’s just that it all doesn’t depend on whether or not Tyreke can get that jumpshot to fall; some of it does. It isn’t the only thing that matters for the situation to work out for the best. There are many factors. But Tyreke’s jumpshot coming along certainly is one of them.
plus i just think landry
wasn’t fully comfortable with the king’s offense. believe it or not, when players are traded, especially when they are expected to fill a new bigger role, it takes a little time to mesh perfectly with their offense/defense. even jason kidd had to take a few games to get used to the mavericks.
plus, we are not too good at the pick and roll, we’ve kinda developed around tyreke as a dribble drive offense, which needs a fair amount of spacing in the lane
by Harrisonyaka on Sep 20, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yet another reason
I fully expect Landry to be traded for a perimeter oriented SG or SF by the trade deadline
This team
certainly is much different than teams that we have had in the past – much different issues and opportunities.
I hope to see Tyreke’s feel for the game develop to allow him to probe defenses and set others up a little better. Beno did that pretty well last year, IMO – Tyreke not quite as well.
it sure is different
isn’t it awesome.
Childress then flew to Greece and asked the team if they would pay him in gold bars, hookiers, weed, and marijuana. The rest is history.
by TheFifthMookie on Sep 20, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. Beno had some beautiful passes last season, especially when he was playing Point and not Tyreke’s sidekick.
I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one’s self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one’s own powers.
--Holmes, on Modesty
by Donovan Jeska on Sep 20, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm - how about Wade - Shaq?
You say you don’t see how Reke-Cousins will succeed but the aforementioned pair ended up winning a championship. I’d like to think that Cousins will have a lot more variety to his game too once he puts it together so don’t fret. ;)
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It's not that hard
You don’t keep your big men out of the paint so there’s a lane, you occasionally have him pull his man just as Reke drives, (you know. a Play) . I also forsee a lot of passes into the post and flips to the driving Evans, the old give n’ go.
These are all do require practicing what they call in the business, plays.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 20, 2010 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
hilarious!
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Evans needs to rediscover his high school jumper...
If we want the paint to clear up anytime soon. Or hopefully Landry’s mid-range shot will become such a threat that he’ll draw defenders and can immediatly kick it to Boogie or a slashing Donte.
That being said, even if Reke’s game stays basically the same I still think our presence inside is going to benefit Omri and we might see a career year out of Cisco, who has been known to hit a big outside shot or two.
Dip til I rip
by Muff209 on Sep 20, 2010 2:39 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
How prevalent is low post scoring in the NBA?
Of the top 15 centers & PF’s in the league, the average number of made baskets inside 10 ft is 4.7 on 7.9 attempts. Among the top 10, the average is 5.7 made on 9.7 attempts. In the top 10 the highest was 6.4 and 10th place was 5.3.
When you consider that some of those baskets came from offensive put backs. And 60% of the shots at the rim and 50% of the shots inside 10 ft were assisted. The total number of actual baskets that came from actual plays where the post player is feed the ball and creates his own shot, is more in the range of 3 per game.
Carl was 14th in my list of inside scorers and only 1 made basket per game from being in the top 5. But, I don’t believe Carl’s scoring inside was hurt by having to clear the lane for Tyreke, as much as it was hurt by the Kings guards inablity to get the ball into the paint in good post up position for our bigs. And, by the inability of the guards to set up the bigs for easy baskets when the guards penetrate the paint.
Where Evans needs to improve is in the short jumper. Think Martin getting into the paint and elevating for the easy jumper and plus 1. Now, imagine Evans beating his man and pulling up inside the FT line for a consistent short jumper. It would force the defensive bigs to leave their man and come out to help defend Evans. This would lead to Evans driving past the bigs or hitting the open big inside for easy baskets. As long as the defense knows that Evans is going to take it to the rim 99% of the time, then they’re going to sit back and defend the rim, making it difficult for Evans and our Bigs.
It’s important to have a big that can finish at the rim, but defenses in the NBA make it difficult for any big to be a quantity scorer down low. That’s why Cousins will be so good. He’ll get his 5 baskets on 10 attempts when they don’t double team him. But, when they do double team him he’ll hit the open man or a slasher going to the rim for easy baskets and open shots.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Sep 20, 2010 3:48 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
This is one of the reasons I am looking forward to the future.
I really like Landry as a major bench cog because of his style of play. There are going to be stretches of a game where the Kings can go to Landry multiple times in the paint with Evans taking a breather either on or off the court. You can’t have both of these guys overlapping, playing 36 shared minutes a game because of the repetitive nature of their skill sets.
Now, adding Cousins to this mix is even more interesting. What I like about DMC is that when he develops, he will be the type of big who can do just about everything. The Kings will be able to run high post plays, feed him in the post, pick and rolls, etc. – the possibilities are endless because of Cousins size and skill. IMO, Evans really needs to work on his mid-range jumper way more than shooting the 3 so he can begin running these more complex offensive sets with Cousins. Again, I don’t really want to see Landry and Cousins putting in huge minutes together because they are both most effective in the post but for short stints, they can be effective with Landry again, stealing some energy minutes for Cousins.
So if I work out a formula that fits this whole puzzle together, I believe that it is sooner rather than later that we will see Cousins as a starter (as a PF or C) with Evans. Landry will play off the bench. If the Kings think that Cousins can play the PF then Dalembert will remain the starter at C. If the Kings think that Cousins is purely a center then I see a JT/DMC front court with Landry providing the bench punch and Sammy D being moved by the trade deadline.
This is by far the most versatile and deep front court the Kings have had in a long time. If Evans can’t work with this group then I don’t want to know what that says about him.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
by jjham15 on Sep 20, 2010 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You're bound and determined to make JT a starter
but it simply ain’t going to happen. Put the pipe away.
For Tyreke, the equation is simple:
Tyreke > Team Tyreke > Team
He has to share the rock and stop throwing up prayers at the rim against triple teams.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
Pretty harsh
Why can’t it be:
What is best for Tyreke = best for Team
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Jason Thompson has started 114 out of 157 career games.
Why is it so surprising that he might be a starter again?
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
I doubt he'll start
I do think it will end up being Dal and Landry.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 21, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If you tried
I’m sure you could think of a few reasons.
He did that
on teams that won 42 games in two seasons and where he had little competition for a starting spot once Brad Miller and Mikki Moore were sent packing. With the addition of Landry, Dalembert, Cousins and Whiteside up front, we’re not that team anymore. 25 minutes a game might be tough to find for JT unless someone gets hurt.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Sep 22, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
In fact
It won’t surprise me to see Whiteside carving minutes out of JT’s playing time by season’s end. Ironic that JT’s main selling points seem to be that he’s younger and cheaper. Whiteside is even younger and cheaper than JT.
"I know we certainly gave up a lot to get him, but we do have other players on the perimeter who we can plug in. We haven’t had anybody who we feel is a go-to guy in the post. So we gave up a lot to get a lot, and we’re real excited about adding Carl." - Paul Westphal
by NewEraKings on Sep 22, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought this was going to be about
the NBA using the FIBA court….
Still waiting for the Euler of basketball to play for the Kings
I think
Tyreke will make it a point to include and learn to play with DMC. Knowing how important their playing well together will be for them both. Remember , Tyreke said it was one of his goals to help DMC win ROY this year. Just hearing that alone , makes it hard to wait for the season .
Only way it isn't big enough is if Cisco, Casspi, and Donte' can't hit
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I think one factor why we have to clear out the key for Tyreke
is Tyreke’s angle of attack. If Reke attacks the rim straight on, Kings players must get out of the key to create a passing alternative (resulting in a mid range shot). If he attacks too close to the baseline, again his teammates need to step away from the rim to create a passing angle.
If Reke can learn to attack the rim while allowing his teammates to cut to it (e.g backdoor) instead of stepping out, he could dump it to them at the last minute and then there’s space for everyone to feast at the bucket. Quick first step players like Donte, Omri, Landry and Cousins would reap huge benefits.
This.
Great post
Great post!!!!! I can’t wait till the season starts.
by BayAreaKingsFan on Sep 20, 2010 10:14 PM PDT reply actions
Is the key big enough? Yes.
Two words: dump pass
by getPGwithbounce on Sep 20, 2010 10:17 PM PDT reply actions
just a thought
I forget who described ’Reke as being a “mutant Tony Parker”, but I loved that description. Could Cousins be a “mutant Tim Duncan”? Maybe someone with more knowledge of the Spurs methodical(cough, boring) offense could enlighten me as to how Parker and Duncan have been able to be offensively effective together this last decade. Could be a good blueprint for ’Reke and Boogie.
Tyrefic! Hawesome! Casstastic!....Reke'd, Noc'd, Brock'd, and Greene'd
by Ball in Cup on Sep 20, 2010 11:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Co-starring Omri as mutant Manu?
I like this line of thought.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Sep 21, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Duncan plays at the elbow most of the time
not under the basket. Because he often commands a double team that opens the basket somewhat. Because the Spurs have good 3 pt shooters and penetrators and are extremely (boringly) patient, eventually a hole opens. They kick it in, he kicks it out, they kick it back in and he either kicks it out for a shot or drive or they run a pick and roll/pick and pop, give and go etc…
A simplified answer as I’m no X and Os guy, but there are plenty of ways for penetrating guards to work with a post up player. They take practice and chemistry.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 21, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope Cousins doesn't try and play like Duncan
As for Tyreke, from my limited ESPN classic and NBA TV experience, he looks an awful lot like Michael Ray Richardson out there
by wallywagon11 on Sep 21, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would you not want Cousins to play like Duncan? Very strange statement.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
Very
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 21, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant I don't really care for him playing at the elbow as much as Duncan does
sorry if that is strange
"Melo is waay better than Roy."~ J-Ridah
"I want to see how we play with D.Wright before we think about the melo trade ." ~ J-Ridah Part II
"I said that because even tho Melo is a good player we shouldnt give up key pieces to get him. In order to get him we’d have to give up Ellis,Udoh and probably wright just to rent him for a year. No player in the league is worth that much for 1 year. Not even Lebron." ~ J-Riday Part II: The Explanation
by wallywagon11 on Sep 21, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Bringing up the Spurs is an interesting comparison.
Parker and Evans, Duncan and Cousins, Carl and Manu. Good comparison of a way that 3 guys are used in conjunction even though they all play a lot in the general vicinity. I guess the trick is to have really good role players who can either do the dirty work or shoot surrounding the three.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
Other then they both score at the rim and can't hit the 3pt shot, their games aren't similar
Parker is more likely to probe the paint and if the shot or dish isn’t there, he’ll dribble back out and start again. Tyreke will get inside the FT line, tuck the ball into his side, jab step and try a right handed layup from the left side of the rim.
If you take the top Guards in the league and weed out the ones that make fewer than 5 attempts at the rim, shoot better than 50% eFT% from 3pt range, attempt more than 4 threes per game, you come up with 9 players. Tyreke, Wade, Parker, Westbrook, Harris, Rondo, Rose, Stuckey & Miller, and of that group the three that best match Evans style of play and shot selection are Wade, Westbrook & Harris.
Harris is probably the best outside shooter of the 4, but Wade takes considerably more outside shots even though he’s not much better than Tyreke when it comes to shooting percentage from that range. I think that other then the difference in assists, Westbrook is most like Evans in shot selection and shooting efficiency. Other than Westbrooks sizeable advantage in assts at the rim, Tyreke & Russel’s assist patterns are very similar, and as has been pointed out in other posts, that advantage may be due to the weakness of the Kings post players last season.
Parker is so much better at shooting inside 10 ft, ball handling and running the pick & roll, that I don’t see Evans reaching that level for some time if ever. If Tyreke learns to hit the consistent outside jumper, then I could see him being the ball dominent player that Wade is. But, again it’s going to be several years before Tyreke can become a clutch outside jump shooter. I like his chances to be a player like or even better than Westbrook, in the near future.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Sep 21, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Spurs win games with their defense.
Of the teams with the slowest Pace, Por is the only Western Conference team with a slower Pace than the Spurs. And, Por, LAL & Spurs are the only Western Conference team to hold their opponents to less than 98 ppg. And, the Spurs have the 4th lowest OTS% at 52.5%, which is only slighty worse than ORL, CLE & LAL. The Kings won’t come close to matching that type of defensive efficiency.
Parker only needs to score 16ppg because of their defense. So, he takes high percentage shots and his experience working with Duncan running the pick & roll means very few mistakes. That’s not something that Tyreke in his 2nd year and Cousins in his 1st season, are going to even come close to matching. And, I’m not sure that Tyreke & Cousins will ever be the type of finesse style players to play that type of game. I can see Cousins setting screens and rolling to the rim, but I can’t imagine Tyreke having the quickness to make sharp cuts off the screen. And, currently his poor outside shooting is going to allow his man to go under the screen. No sharp cuts off the screen & his defender able to go under the screen means that Tyreke isn’t going to get open, and it means that Cousins man probably won’t had to leave Cousins when he rolls to the basket.
I think someone already has pointed out that Beno & Cousins or Dalembert might make the best pick & roll duo.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

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