They Say That We're Flying Too High. I Say Get Used To Looking Up.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 15, 2011 4:51 PM PST
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So on another Kings board there is a free agency discussion looking at 2011 free agents. I am reading it and listening to my favorite new artist, Ryan Star. I get to the part in one of his songs where he croons "They say that we're flying too high. We'll get used to looking up" and it inspired me to get bold, or crazy, or maybe a bit of both.
Personally, I started thinking with the following premises:
1 - No superstar is coming here.
2 - The biggest names in free agency are guys like Nene, Marc Gasol, Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph
3 - We have a ton of cap space and can afford to make a mistake as long as it isn't too big.
4 - With the Heat's Big 3 it's going to take a loaded team to win as more veterans come to play with them. There's very little chance of lucking into a championship with a mediocre team (think potentially the Pistons or Wade/O'Neal Heat).
With that in mind, I present the following name for consideration: Greg Oden
WHAT?!?!? GREG ODEN. HE CAN'T STAY HEALTHY. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND?!?!?!
It's a fair question, and the answer to that is definitely maybe.
So why Oden? Because he is only 23 and if he can shake his injury history, something more and more young players are doing with greatly improved basketball medical procedures in the last 20 years, he is an absolute home run. Scratch that, a grand freaking slam.
First, look at his numbers:
His stats last year: 11 points, 8.5 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks while shooting 60% in only 23MPG.
His PER the last 2 years was 18 and 23.
His 15.6% and 28.3% ORB and DRB rates were phenomenal.
His 118 ORating and 100 DRating are stellar.
Same with his +9 on/off average last year.
His opponents average PER is 13.
He had a 16.5 block rating (Dwight Howard has a 8.5 this year).
Those are superstar numbers that he put up at age 21/22. That's phenomenal. Even if he never improves, those are numbers you can build around. Those are numbers that would look great next to Reke, DMC and whoever we draft.
So the question becomes, what are the odds he can stay healthy?
Check out the following games played:
50, 67, 46, 54, 63, 82, 65, 75
63, 63, 46, 59, 63, 29, 29, 72, 66, 56, 70, 79, 62, 73
65, 76, 40, 56, 70, 82, 82
4, 14, 29, 67, 21, 65, 70, 82, 81
46, 62, 25, 55, 79, 82
59, 19, 50, 60, 4, 80, 58, 76, 76
66, 62, 80, 52, 28, 81, 81
These players are Baron Davis, Marcus Camby, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Chris Mullin, Anfernee Hardaway and Tim Hardaway
Injury problems aren't as persistent as they used to be.
Point being that if he works out, he is an absolute HR. A grand slam. We're not signing any superstars here, but if we roll the dice on Oden and he shakes his injury history we become contenders again. Considering he is just about to turn 23 and medicine has advanced considerably since players like Ralph Sampson and Pervis Ellison had their careers derailed by injuries, he has a chance to make a big comeback. Nowadays, most players who slowly deteriorate due to injuries are on the wrong side of 30.
It might not work out, but if our medical team examines him and says there is a chance, he could probably be had for a reasonable deal. 3 years - 15-21 million dollars. If he never shakes his injury history we've wasted 10-14 million over 2 years and he becomes tradable as an expiring contract in year 3. If he does stay healthy, then we've added a number 1 pick and a franchise center to our roster and made ourselves instant contenders.
You have to risk big to win big, especially when you are a small market team with no rich history. So the question becomes, is this the right risk?
Thoughts?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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If the money is right, sure.
But someone is always dumb enough to overpay. I just hope it works out wherever he ends up, I don’t like seeing good players not blossom just because of injuries.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Jan 15, 2011 7:15 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agree about the injury part
Will be interesting to see about the money though because:
1 – Only a couple of teams will have cap space
2 – He’s a RFA, which traditionally has made teams with space more nervous about signing a player to an offer sheet (because it ties up their cap during the free agency bidding period) and the other team can match it a week later
3 – To really go over the cap and give up assets in a sign and trade will probably be too much for most teams to do
So unless Portland wants to match a 15-21 million dollar 3 year deal, he could be there for the taking. Not sure what Portland’s mindset is though. That’s a lot of money with their current cap situation and I have gotten the feeling from articles that they are looking to move on. I could be wrong though.
WHAT?!?!? GREG ODEN. HE CAN'T STAY HEALTHY. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND?!?!?!
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Portland either tenders the $8.8 million qualifying offer,
or he ain’t worth having. In other words, I don’t see Portland letting him slip away unless he is damaged goods.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
You sure about this?
The Blazers currently have 51 million in salary committed for next season and 40 and 44 million committed the following 2 seasons. You can add about 2 million per year to that for a draft pick.
If the doctors come back and say Oden is a “maybe,” will they want to commit to over 62 million dollars for next year’s team? It’s debatable, especially with the rollercoaster they have had with him the last 4 years.
If the doctors come back and say Oden is a "maybe,"
I want no part of him. And that’s my point. He is currently under contract with Portland. They will have their finger on the pulse of the situation. If he’s healthy, they keep him. If there are questions, they let him go. If there are questions, I don’t want him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Why not?
If we don’t sign him to a contract that’s too long, and as long as the salary doesn’t guarantee enough money to prevent us from paying any other impact player, then I don’t see what we’d have to lose.
If we start hearing talk of any contract longer than 3 guaranteed years, and if the annual average salary exceeds $10 million, then I don’t want a maybe. Anything shorter and cheaper? Go for it.
"Where hope goes to die"
Because we'd get burned by every PF in the league on defense.
That’s why.
"Where hope goes to die"
My point is
that if he is worth holding onto, Portland will hold onto him. They have the hammer – they hold the QO, and they have first-hand access to the doctor reports and his rehab. After all that they have invested in him, they only cut him loose if he is not worth having.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
My point is
that even if Oden didn’t help, signing him probably wouldn’t hurt either. Unless we have a shot at signing another impact player whom we couldn’t afford with Oden under contract, there’s hardly any downside either way.
"Where hope goes to die"
That being said,
If we can find anybody else of impact to sign, then I agree with you.
"Where hope goes to die"
you do realize though there are other ways that there are other ways of using cap space than just signing "impact players" or "injury prone maybe impact players"
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 16, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, and my argument holds up regardless.
If we have no way of landing anybody else who could do us any good, Oden’s not a bad last resort.
"Where hope goes to die"
Will they if he is 50-50 and going to cost 8.8 million?
You may be right, but that’s not an absolute given.
I don't think they give him the QO myself
time for them to run away from injury prone players. . . . .
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 18, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Portland will have to consider that Oden might think taking that QO is the best he can do too.
That’s strange to say but nonetheless an important point in this case.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I don't want another big man with bad knees, knock on wood.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
So, if it worked out (BIG IF), is he our starting center with DMC power forward, or the other way around?
Cause I have major doubts about either being able to guard the multitude of mobile PFs in the game today.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Honestly
That’s one of those problems you can deal with when you come to it. But if it did work out, playing them together would be about 1000X better than the Dalembert-DMC pairing that has worked pretty well for us this year.
Except Dalembert is quite agile and mobile honestly
and Oden brings the adjective “lumbering” to mind more than “agile”.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Actually I agree with you
The longer answer I could have given would be it just depends on the matchup. However, having DMC and Oden would give you a lot of options, especially if you could find one true PF too.
However, that’s 2 stars in the frontcourt who can be dominant on O and very good to dominant on D.
lol@ Dalembert+DC on the floor at the same time, yes that seems to be a pretty fail combo. Id like to see either a big bruiser of a PF to play the post and let DC face up at the high post, or a good high post PF to dish inside for DC to punish opposing centers w/o being doubled so much. Having 2 guys bang in the paint makes it too easy to double both of them.
by Chad Schafer on Jan 16, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Bleh @ your opinions.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
You called the Championship Pistons "mediocre"?
Your argument is invalid.
Did you ever watch them play?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 15, 2011 9:51 PM PST reply actions
Well, these are all relative terms
The Pistons at their peak were a very good team, but I don’t put them on the same level as the Jordan Bulls, Shaq-Kobe Lakers (who were not at their peak when the Pistons beat them), Big 3 Celtics or even the Kobe-Pau Lakers of the last two years.
And yes, I watched them play a lot. Again, very good team, but compared to other championship teams, I don’t think they were of the same caliber. Again , if they had come up against the 00-01-02 Lakers they would have 0 rings. I don’t think they would have beaten the ’02 Kings for that matter.
Hmm.
I don’t think any of their players were as good as Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Webber, but I do believe they could have beaten the Kings maybe in 7 and definitely have beaten the Lakers and Celtics. Their defense was out of this world.
We just disagree I guess.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 16, 2011 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Admittedly, 54-28 IS pretty mediocre for an NBA champion.
"Where hope goes to die"
Lol
Well to be fair, they were in the Eastern Conference, which also inflated their win total. That Pistons team may have struggled to crack 50 wins if they had been in the West.
You mean in the 80’s?
The game has changed a little in the last 30 years sorry dude.
by Chad Schafer on Jan 17, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
That was closer to 20 years ago.
That is unless you think 1989/90 is 30 years ago.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Am I having one of my spells,
or didn’t the Pistons win a championship less than 7 years ago?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yes but what seems like 20 years might in fact be 7 seven years when you are dreaming inside a dream that is inside a dream
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 17, 2011 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I have a dream....
….that I never see Greg Oden in uniform. I have a dream that the Kings play all 4 quarters. I have a dream that Paul Westphal isn’t bursting into tears after a game. I have lots of dreams apparently.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Yeah
and if there is any confusion, that was the squad I was referring to. Not the Thomas-Dumars-Rodman team.
I totally agree with you that taking a gamble on a guy like Oden could pay off huge and is probably a good strategy for a team like the Kings
but I’m not sold on Oden/Cousins working out all that well. Could they be our Bynum/Gasol? Offensively, I guess I could see that. But defensively, it seems like Cuz would have to slim down quite a bit to gain enough agility to make that work. Would we want Cuz to slim down? The team seems fairly certain that Cuz is our Center of the future, so that strategy is probably not likely. Would Oden work as the 3rd big on this team, since his minutes would probably need to be controlled quite a bit at first anyways?
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 16, 2011 9:22 AM PST reply actions
Cousins would also need to grow a beard and let his hair get completely out of control.
Perhaps some of us are taking this too literally.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
If he grew a nice fro if he could list his height at like 7’2" and get away with it….
by Chad Schafer on Jan 16, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
When you have a standing reach of 9'5"...
….I could care less if DeMarcus Cousins was a midget.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
If he was a midget, I imagine it wold be hard for others to steal the ball when he puts it on the floor.
The imagery of a midget with a 9’5" standing reach is priceless.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
Yeah, it’s amazing to me that he has such a high standing reach. He’s the only guy with a 9’5" standing reach that is under 6’10. (Albeit, he’s a 1/2 inch under at 6 9 1/2.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I thought he was actually 6'11", at least that's what was reported.
Then I saw him next to Shaq when they played Boston, and I realized there was no way he was that tall. I was surprissed to see how small DMC looked next to Shaq, when DMC makes other guys look small. Shaq truly is a man amoung boys out there. Anyways, I’m just glad DMC is as big as he really is, 6’9.5" and all, because he still has size advantage with his frame and reach.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
Shaq is quite a bit taller than DMC indeed.
And yes, DMC is a very big boy indeed.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
He already has a beard.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 16, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Greg Oden....really??
JT would beat him at all aspects of the game and twice on sunday :) We are pretty good at the center spot atm imho. The kings should draft a big man in the secon round with one of their 2 picks, bring that rookie off the bench for JT, or let D-Block battle for the backup spot with said rookie. Or draft a backup center with a second round pick, bring him off the bench for DC and let D-Block come off the bench for JT. This is assuming we dont sign a big name PF in the off season. If we do sign a free agent big, id have JT come off the bench for both center and pf and draft at annother position.
?
“And twice on Sunday” – Is that right?
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
well considering JT actually plays NBA basketball on a daily basis ^^
by Chad Schafer on Jan 16, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
So
The premise to your statement that JT would beat Oden is based on Oden not playing, right? Brilliant.
For some reason I thought your were intimating that Oden would actually play against JT. Sorry for the confusion.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
what I mean is as talented or big as Oden might be, I dont think he is healthy enough to log serious mins througout an entire NBA season. JT is rock solid, not injury prone and imho his game is getting better this year. If you could assure me Oden to start even 70% of the games he would be under contract for I might be persuaded.
by Chad Schafer on Jan 16, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
You may be right
but can you definitively say that about a 23 year old? Maybe. But that’s why they call it taking a risk.
Oh, and JT could kick Wilt Chamberlain's ass, too.
Wilt hasn’t done ANYTHING lately.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Jan 16, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Levity with a salient point, nicely done.
rec’d
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
JT is just waiting to unleash his 100pt game this year….
by Chad Schafer on Jan 17, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
There’s very little chance of lucking into a championship with a mediocre team
You mean like the Giants? Heyoooooo!!!
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 16, 2011 11:25 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
If he exercised his ETO
I’d rather throw some money at Nene. I think he’s a good complement to Cuz in the frontcourt. He’s my Thabeeeeeetttttt!!!!
Neeennneeeeeeeeee!!!!!
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Agreed.
I’d rather have Nene unless he’d rather be a minister until the world ends in 2012.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I remember someone mentioned
they had read something about him retiring after his contract expired. Was that you?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Yeah...
…but it was Nene that started it. He’s talked about retiring after his current contract ends (he has an ETO for this summer but his contract would end in the summer of ‘12 if he doesn’t exercise the ETO).
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Yeah, the ETO is the key of course
Who know if he’d risk some money to move to a better place, if Melo is traded and Denver goes on rebuild mode. I just love his efficiency and the athleticism he’d bring to the frontcourt. He’s also a bit of a veteran presence.
I think landing a player like Nene and upgrading the G position with a playmaker veteran could make the offseason a huge success.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
And if I remember correctly
there might have been some interest in obtaining Nene a couple years back. Maybe around the Artest trade talk with the Nuggets?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Never a possibility Eddie.
There was no way that Denver would have ever given him up. There’s a reason they gave away Marcus Camby for nothing, and Nene was that reason.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
We wanted Kleiza who they would not give up
It wasn’t realistic that they would have given up Nene in an Artest deal.
Actually,
there was some “talk” separate of Kleiza, around the time that Nene was diagnosed with testicular cancer. Nothing ever came of it, though.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Forgot about that...
..but there were concerns Nene wouldn’t play after the diagnosis.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Nene would be nice!, but are either Nene or DC fast enough to guard a PF?
by Chad Schafer on Jan 16, 2011 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
Gee
Nene has played PF for years before he was a C. I think he could continue to do so if he was committed to do so.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Nice, just wondering, he seemed a bit bulky but I guess he could lose some weight.
by Chad Schafer on Jan 17, 2011 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
You play the lottery, don't you?
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 16, 2011 10:37 PM PST reply actions
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