Cowbell Kingdom: Westphal and Landry Respond
Our friend James Ham provides direct responses from Westphal and Landry to today's article in the Bee, and includes a link to Ailene defending her story on Grant Napear's show.
over 1 year ago
Exhibit G
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Instead of going on dipshit's show, she could just publish the audio at sacbee.com
But as that likely wouldn’t help her case, don’t hold your breath.
Good digging there, James.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Hate to say it
But I thought Grant did a good job pushing that point. Particularly when he questioned why she wasn’t more upset about it.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
Yeah he really tried to give her a chance,
but she destroyed herself and he didn’t stop her. hahah.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 27, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
If Grant liked Ailene.....
…..I can guarantee you he would have danced around.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Great work, James
I hope that they’re kissing your arse at Cowbell Kingdom, because you are truly having an MVP season.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 27, 2011 6:03 PM PST reply actions 10 recs
I hate her
Aileen annoys the crap out me. Everytime I see her photo ;X The whole Sac bee constantly talks crap on the Kings.
Macamento
by Vinson916 on Jan 27, 2011 6:40 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Great job James
You always give us so much insight.
The Maloofs will always be some playas, Geoff Petrie can neva be a hata, Chris Webber will always be a playa, Mike Biiby can neva be a hata, Vlade Divac will always be a player, Doug Christe can neva be a hata, Bobby Jackson will always be a playa, Peja Stojakovic can neva be a hata, White Chocalate will always be a playa, Rick Adelman can neva be a hata, Pete Carril you know he's a playa, Kevin Martin can neva be a hata, Omri Casspi will always be a playa, DeMarcus Cousins can neva be a hata, Tyreke Evans now that's a real playa, THE SACRAMENTO KINGS NOW THEM SOME REAL PLAYAS!!!!!
by slamson on Jan 27, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that's not James
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 27, 2011 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
I had hoped and suspected that something like this was going on.
Carl seems too nice a guy to go after his coach and his team on record as hard as Voison made it seem. I think Carl said some things he shouldn’t have, but the slight journalistic twisting (Massaging? Nah, I’d like to not think of Aileen massaging anything. Twisting.) made them seem quite a bit worse. It sounds like Carl recognized all of that and did the right thing by stepping up to his coach and his team right away and apologizing and explaining himself. Honestly, this whole thing really could end up being a positive, if it adds another small chip on everyone’s shoulder.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 27, 2011 7:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Also, great friggin job, James.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 27, 2011 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
How about great job Carl Landry.
He handled the situation with composure and professionalism. Yet another reason why he is such an asset to the King…on and off the court. I have always been, and shall remain, in the don’t trade Landry camp.
by adamsite on Jan 27, 2011 7:22 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
well played by everyone
I usually troll but think I’ll offer my two cents. I can’t fault anyone here. Carl spoke the truth. This team has talent but doesn’t know how to play their sets and win. If you read Carl’s comments alone, Ailene seems to have complemented them very nicely with appropriate context. Then Carl played team-politics and said the right things. Then Grant asked the right questions and Ailene answered them very professionally. James followed with a terrific job post. Really… I wish everything was executed on court as smoothly as this.
by sonomanate on Jan 27, 2011 7:26 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You hit it spot-on
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
furthermore
Carl is going to be a great veteran leader on some team in this league, and I hope it’ ours. Read Marc Spears’ article about the Spurs on SI.com. That is a team of leaders that doesn’t tolerate BS style of play. The Kings suck and it’s not for lack of talent. This team needs a guy like Carl to say these things, to reporters if need be. Anyways back to trolling
Actually, it's largely lack of talent.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Jan 27, 2011 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lack of talent and lack of polish
JJ, thanks for the balanced reporting, as usual.
I really don’t see the scandal here. It’d be one thing if Carl was telling us that JT was a low-IQ doofus and incorrigible, but he seems to mean JT could be something good with more stability and coaching.
Right, there are offensive breakdowns, but things are improving. Growing pains.
The idea that this is somehow an indictment of Westphal or Petrie, I think, is silly. We wanted a rebuild, we wanted a rebuild that had a shot at championships, not just competence, and we wanted flexibility with the CBA looming. We got it all and this is what it looks like. If it is an indictment of management, then we’re using “indictment” to mean “celebration of principled execution of agreed-upon plan”, which, I think, is not the conventional definition.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Jan 28, 2011 7:10 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This team has 32-35 win talent
not 15-20. I believed this before the season & still believe it now.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jan 28, 2011 9:37 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Belief is awesome.
Truthfully, I don’t believe that.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
I believed it was possible if things went well for this team.
I think we all know how things have gone up to this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Tip my hat to Carl
Thanks for the reporting James. Carl is probably the most intelligent player we’ve had on the team since Lawrence Funderburke’s days, and I’m surprised he didn’t know better by now not to talk too much to Voiceoff. I think there is a grain of truth to Carl’s original comments, particularly in his comparison of Adelman’s system and Westphal’s system. But I understand his position in backtracking here. Voiceoff’s article really seemed to push the boundaries when she dug into the frowns, scowls, and disgruntled atmosphere of the locker room. Nice try on her part, but it really distracted readers. All in all, I find Carl to be a class act and hope we can find a way to keep him. He’s going to be a great 6th man on a championship team some day.
by Sactown's Finest on Jan 27, 2011 7:40 PM PST reply actions
The only problem I had with the column
Was it was a bit vague on a conclusion. She wrote what everyone on this site has been griping about, yet her reasons for the kings problems were just as uncertain as ours. Is it the coach’s plan or is the young players not following the coach’s plan? Carl mentions the coach’s plan, but also says the players are young. So it is both? I don’t see a problem with a player voicing that. Freedom of speech, remember. I have more of a problem with a system, any system, that creates an atmosphere of fear to the point where people don’t speak out or rush to "clear up" what they said after the fact. Sure, she could have strategically placed Carl’s quotes, but what was the result: exactly what people on this site have been writing since about the 10th game of the season. I agree there is a lot of talent, I think they should be a better team, but I’m not sure why they aren’t.
As for Voison. I often agree with her and give her kudos for saying what needed to be said back when Webber came back from his injury. He let his ego run rampant, Adleman caved, Petrie caved, the Maloofs caved … and so did the Kings. They could have won a title that year, too. That was a tragedy and she was the only person brave enough to tell the truth. Adelman is to blame for that. I’m not crying for him.
by boredwiththeUSA on Jan 27, 2011 8:11 PM PST reply actions
Funny.
She’s for some reason always trying to break the team up. Is she always like that up at Sac?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
"We're talking about Kwame Brown, who cares?" - Stephen A. Smith
Agree.
She seems like poison. I mean that’s probably the last thing the Kings need. Local reporters/editors firing shots on the city’s very own team. BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAACTH
Um, I am not a voisin fan, but
a columnist writing negative columns about an organization that is, let’s face it, failing, is hardly an unusual situation. Pick up a NY post sometime.
by lchristmas on Jan 27, 2011 10:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Her job is to sell newspapers
The title of the article puts you in the mindset to read it with a negative slant, and to react accordingly. That we are all discussing this article and the sacbee has her smiling all the way to the bank.
I understand both your points, both of which I agree with...
which is why reporters are nothing but little snitches. I mean a parking inspector is doing their job by handing out tickets, but it’s making $$$ off other peoples misery. Which is why I’m against these reports, that are only doing more damage to an organization with more than enough hurdles to jump, without Voisin putting her 2 cents to hold the team back.
I mean Carl said those words, but as usual there is probably more to the story, or she misinterpreted his meaning taking what she wanted to hear to put poor Carl on the back foot.
If I were the Maloofs, I would tell players to stay away from her, to prevent more bs like from happening. There’s a fine line balancing stories to keep both parties happy, and I think she crossed it on this one.
Reporting is not snitching. Sorry.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Sam did an eerily similar ...
… interview over at Fanhouse a couple of days ago. But a completely different slant and context on Landry’s quotes.
I like to get in on a good ailene-bash as much as anyone
But unless she completely fabricated the quotes this ones on carl
He might wish he didn’t say those things and he might not like the way they look, but I don’t know what “context” you could put those words in that would change their meaning.
Sure, westy is pissed. He just got rolled under a bus with the rotting corpses of reggie and muss.
by lchristmas on Jan 27, 2011 9:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions
yeah I would have to agree with this
I would also argue that Voison didn’t exactly paint Carl as a bad person either. Maybe all the stupid stuff about Pooh with a frown and Landry walking to the door was piss poor writing and didn’t really encapture the scene but then again I didn’t care about the scene she was painting and only was really looking at Carl’s quotes and they read an awful lot like the quotes in the Amick piece a day earlier so I have a hard time believing she made it all up.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
I think what Carl was explaining
doesn’t resonate the same in print as it when heard spoken. I doubt she fabricated the quotes but in black in white it sounds as he was slamming people when I think he was probably just trying to explain the problem truthfully and without malice.
There are some guys dumber than me, some guys worse looking, I take umbrage at the fact that there is no guy that is both.
the thing is
I saw zero malice in what he was saying when I read it.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
James "The Truth" Ham
Good job.
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
That woman receives so much hate from the public (rightfully)
So it’s “normal” to see hate and negative manipulative critique in her columns disguised into “journalism”. It’s her ego answering back.
Something to think about...
Landry was talking about his positive experience with the Rockets. This was turned around and into, by reflection, a comment on the Kings. Is that valid? Sure, by reflection the Kings are a worse team, but that was clearly not Landry’s point. He was being positive as that is who he is, a positive dude.
It is also not fair reporting to take such positive statements and spin them into negative ones about the Kings. Pretty sure that is what happened here.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
That's why it's important to make the distinction between a reporter and a columnist
Aileen is a columnist for the Bee and not a beat writer/reporter. All of her stories are based on some facts, but in the end there really just an opinion based on her point of view. That’s why I prefer JJ Ham’s posts where he quotes the exact questions and answers and the the exact order.
Having said that, I believe that Carl’s comment
“We ran and everybody shared the ball,” he said, “and when we didn’t have anything on the break, we’d run pick and rolls. We won 22 straight games (in 2007-08) without Yao (Ming) and mostly without Tracy McGrady. We could do that here, but that’s not what we do, and you have to play the system the coach (Paul Westphal) wants.”
Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/27/3355687/ailene-voisin-selfish-play-is.html#ixzz1CLTP7Zw5
It seems to me that Carl is saying that the Kings don’t share the ball enough, and don’t run pick & rolls. Which is absolutely true, so I can’t fault him for saying it. The last part seems to be saying that it’s because it’s not part of PW’s system. Which may or may not be true, but if it is true it really doesn’t reflect badly on the coach. He may have good reasons why he runs iso’s and very little pick & rolls, and it may have to do with his personel.
Either way I found most if not all of Carl’s quoted comments to be benign and totally factual.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This
I really don’t get why everyone got so riled up by that article unless they are seriously influenced by things like “Pooh was frowning in the corner”
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
I think it is fair to get a bit riled
Landry is a class act and this piece made him look less like a righteous dude. He wears his top hat well, but you would not know it from how he came off.
I think it is very much a big deal to be so misrepresented. He is soon to be FA and it was wrong for Voisin to do anything that could make him look like a potential locker room cancer causing agent or disgruntled type of player.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Okay, here is what I don't get
No it is not wrong for Voisin or any journalist, opinion writer, or blogger, or even just a casual fan to do anything that could make him or any other athlete look like a potential locker room cancer. Hey, if Landry said what he said that’s all on him. He didn’t have to talk to her if he is worried about his image and it’s her job to write about the players and the team. Of course, I know you didn’t mean “anything” there and you are just talking about anything false or incorrect. Essentially, it’s a big deal if she misreprsented him.
So, how was he misrepresented? Seriously, just tell me how? Obviously if the quotes are not what he said I would agree with you but that doesn’t seem to be the problem. So what is it? If he was misrepresented then there has to be a pretty specific thing in there she misconstrued. The stupid Pooh, Tyreke, and DMC references didn’t infer one thing negative about Landry. Seriously, if you can’t point out a specific thing she did that misrepresented him than where did she at least infer something that was a misrepresentation?
I am also baffled why people are saying she misrepresented Carl and going to town on her for that but I haven’t see one person tear into Amick for his recent Landry article.
“Without a doubt, I wouldn’t mind coming back to Sacramento. The only thing is I want to win, and it’s not looking that way right now, so it is what it is.
“This organization needs to find a way to win. For the last few years, this organization has not had success at all. I want to win. I’m still a young player in this league, but I’ve had a little taste of success early and when you don’t continue to (win), it’s kind of tough.”
“We’ve got the talent,” said Landry, who was drafted 31st overall by Seattle in 2007 out of Purdue and traded to Houston on draft night. "I don’t care if they bring the No. 1 pick in here (this summer). That’s not separating (us) from these wins and losses. It’s the little things. We’ve got talent.
“I played on a team (the 2007-08 Houston Rockets) that won 22 games in a row and went to the playoffs, and this team has more talent than that team. We played without Yao (Ming) half the time (that season), played without Tracy (McGrady) the other half. We had young guys, who had only played in the league two or three years, just like this team. We’ve got talent. And if we find a way to put it together, the sky is the limit.”
The only differnce I see is that (a) Landry is more vague with the “it’s the little things” comment than with Voison. Now if she misquoted him then I understand the backlash but if not that’s completely on him. She ain’t there to protect him from himself. Sam quotes a little more Landry Sacramento love in his piece but Voison has it too in her’s and even says he doesn’t even talk like an “angry, disgruntled employee” but more like “a philosopher King.”
I dunno, I just don’t get it. I don’t enjoy her writing but I don’t see how she did any great wrong here.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
And everyone on the radio, and Ziller himself, were focused on the "bad coaches" quote by Landry
That more than anything seemed to rile everyone up. Not the silly discription of the King’s lockeroom and Landry walking out the door. It was a quote that got everyone to start talking about whether Landry was trashing PW.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Oh dear lord I need to learn to stop clicking send before reading what I write.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
ON SECOND THOUGHT MUSTANG
Ziller did pretty much lay out a pretty darn good arguement about what was wrong with what Voison did so … um yeah, you can ignore pretty much everything I wrote if you want.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
I think his comments were on target. Pretty fair assessment, even by reflection.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
well then if we are saying Voison misrepresented him doesn't that say more about us than her?
If we can’t even come up with how she mispresented him?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 28, 2011 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
It sounds like Aileen is done as far as the Kings go
at least for a while.
R U Kidding....
She will be doing sideline reporting at the Power Balance Pavillion in Kentucky 2014
Statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything.
Unfortunately
This is more of the same from her. No reason to expect the Bee to do anything about it now.
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
Things that don't compute
Landry – malcontent
Voisin – journalist
Westphal – coach
Tyreke – point guard
"Remember now, patience and stop the whining. This is something we have to endure to get better. We have no choice. Stick with Petrie, stick with Westphal, stick with Tyreke, stick it to the fans."
Nice try on the thread derail
But that horse is dead around 5 times over.
by VenomySnicket on Jan 28, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
CK missed a chance
" I think we’ve been fairly well galvanized anyway. We have a very good group. We’re pulling hard and we are always disappointed if we lose and we are trying to figure out a way to get over the hump and I think we’ve been doing it together. There’s not that much good about having to fight the kind of statements that were in that article. I can’t find a whole lot of good about it."
After that PW response, CK needed to follow up with: Do you think if you stopped teaching an offense centered on 1:1 basketball and installed a team concept you might get over the hump?
Landry
I still feel that Landry is correct. The Kings do not play team defense or offense. reke is not a point guard. Poo is. If a player is not performing (sit him).
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