Future All-Stars? The Evans and Cousins question
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 11:38 AM PST
Email
PrintI know it’s awfully early but we’ve been nibbling around the edges of this much of the season - and the last few weeks the topic has come up from time to time in threads. Perhaps the answer in the end is both of the above - but I thought some direct discussion would be fun.
Last season Tyreke Evans won Rookie of the Year, and given our roster at the time was deservedly given the mantle of franchise cornerstone.
But there are real flaws in his game that though he is clearly working on – persist. My largest concern is not about his (improving) jump shot, it’s about floor vision and game IQ. I do believe he wants to make his team better, but I think he’s hampered by a lack of natural spacial recognition. It’s just not one of his gifts. He often doesn’t seem to see the whole floor and the moving parts of the Chessboard if you will, all that well. That’s why I think that perhaps the most important key to his potential development into an All-Star is not a better jumper - but film study. I don’t believe he’s a natural at seeing three moves ahead, so he’s got to do some hard work to recognize schemes and movement both on offense, for himself near the basket, and equally how defenses are playing or playing off his teammates.
This is especially evident late in close games when opposing defenses tighten up. Can he grow that extra pair of eyes that great facilitators seem to possess? Probably not, but by study he can learn to play a lot less head down and have better recognition of the floor as whole. Let’s face it, right now it’s often obvious to me, to you and almost certainly to defenses when he’s already planning to take the ball himself and damn the torpedoes - before he even crosses the mid-court line.
There’s nothing to fear here, many of the great guards in this league, Chauncey Billups pops to mind, had to work on their mental game very hard to be who they eventually became. Just look at how wide, how focused Steve Nash’s eyes are when he's running his team, always scanning the floor, always anticipating. That’s from hard work perhaps more than it's from his natural ability to make a great pass or start a great play.
Chess is a good example I think, and by the way, an excellent mental recognition game that would probably be a useful tool to any strategist, even a basketball player. Not only does a good coach play Chess, his lead facilitator should be out there playing it as well.
I believe Only by hard work on the mental game can Tyreke begin to make quicker, more confidant decisions for himself and others and keep the offense flowing. Only then will he become the All-Star we need.
DeMarcus Cousins for all his rookie foibles seem to be a natural Chess player. His physical tools aren’t really superior to Tyreke’s, they share similar qualities in natural strength and footwork, but his feel for the game, his awareness and vision of the whole moving (hopefully) court and anticipation is God given if you will.
I’m not saying that he doesn’t need to increase his concentration and awareness, he does, but right now he’s an excellent young Chess player who sometimes gets impatient and plays Checkers instead. Yet, after 45 games and completing his first trip through the league, he is already showing the abilty to not only match up with a variety of opposing big men, but also to occasionally dominate and confound them in a variety of ways. If he continues to improve both his physical and mental game than he’ll be truly feared and multiple All-Star appearances await.
A huge key for DeMarcus’ future success is not to fall in love with his skills so much that he fails to continue to provide muscle and strength in the post. That is the primary job of his position after all and a key to a winning playoff team. Currently, he seems to dividing his talents equally as a facilitor/ shooter and a low post threat. Make no mistake though, it’s just easier to play outside - and this is a trap that awaits him and one I hope the coaching staff is monitoring closely.
So, it’s early, it’s hasty, (especially after these last few excellent games from Cousins) but what the hell, who do we think currently looks more likely to become the true franchise cornerstone?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
121 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I knew I shouldn't have included the 'both'
cop-outs!
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
I voted Reke.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Sactown Royalty: Where 8 games played qualifies you as a future superstar.
I hope you're right pookey, but I voted DMC.
I think DMC is about a year away from being a top-5 center in this league, and within a couple years he could very well be the league’s best low post scorer. I don’t see Reke being quite as feared at his position as Cousins is, but again, I hope you’re right. If Reke progresses with his mental game, he could be a top-10 or even top-5 player in this league. I don’t see it happening, and I think he’ll end up being an all-start a few scattered times and be considered a top-20 player, but not among the highest echelon of elite players. However, I do see Cousins going down that path.
Is that fear due...
…to the fact that that DMC is just better or that there isn’t as much high end talent when it comes to bigs?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I'd say both
cop-outs!
Unless Reke steps it up with his playmaking, I see him being too one dimensional, and DMC will easily surpass him. But DMC does have that big advantage that there aren’t very many talented big men in the league, where there are MANY talented guards
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 2, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
To quote Homer
Space Evaluator: “Well Homer, I guess you’re the winner by default.”
Homer: “Default? Woo hoo! Default: the two sweetest words in the English language… de fault, de fault, de fault (punching sounds)”
Good points!
I think you raise two of my biggest concerns with this team, mental preparation and strength/conditioning. I think the whole team could benefit from more time spent studying film, scouting opponents etc. The benefits will come with time and experience as the team with be able to run more complicated sets, play better team defense etc.
The DMC going down low point is also important to the team as a whole. Playing in the high post is easier and you can see Cousins stay in the high post when he is gassed. The teams’ conditioning is improving by increments each game, but needs to be a focus next offseason to avoid the slow season start and the late game mental mistakes that have often foiled games this season.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Eh I dunno if I want to start arguing between the two players, that isn't exactly a fun conversation
I know this is a bit odd of a response but there are a few fan bases going through some of the “No, this guys is our franchise guy” banter and although kind of fun at first it starts taking a turn for the worse with people constantly throwing up comments about trading one or the other whenever ANY setback occurs.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Like it or not, the debate is inevitable
is part of the NBA culture. Though I do understand your concerns.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
oh absolutely
It’s going to happen regardless. Although they both have a high usage rate with relatively low TS%’s (this plus immaturity could potentially drive this debate into a very not fun zone) one positive is at least they both play very different positions. You should see all the “Trade Ellis or Curry” threads and all the back and forth arguements at GSOM.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 31, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen them...
….and it’s arguing whether one nickel is shinier than the other essentially. What amuses me is why they do so: Just because. (Or that’s what it seems like to me.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Sactown Royalty: Where 8 games played qualifies you as a future superstar.
You know,
at this time last season, Tyreke was our franchise guy. And now Cousins enters the conversation because he has put together solid back-to-back games.
Fun conversation, I suppose. But it is still way, way too early in the development of these guys to try to determine if either/neither/both of these guys will ascend to franchise player status.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Oh I think it's pretty clear
That Cousins will be an All-Star soon if he works a little harder on his conditioning, I think Tyreke has a lot more to work on as I I guess is obvious from my post.
Now, the competition at C is much less crowded than than at the guard position of course.
Anyway, I think on Cousins it’s more than just the last few games, it’s been glimmering through pretty often.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This sums up my thoughts on it pretty well.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 1, 2011 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
However
Frachise Player in the title may have been over reaching. I’ll amend to Future All Star.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
the thought of potentally having two
players on the kings that could be future all stars kinda makes my brain do this.
if you play defense the fans will come
by fffindeed on Jan 31, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting read and to think about
In looking at the two players you would naturally think that a Guard would be more versatile than a Center, but that isn’t the case here. Aptitude-wise, Cousins would seem to have more versatility, and I don’t mean ability to play different positions. I mean the ability to score, defend, pass, etc. In looking at Cousins the passing just seems to come more naturally to him.
Tyreke can be a really great playmaker and has had games with stellar assists, but Cousins does have better court vision. I agree. That doesn’t mean that Tyreke can’t be a great playmaker. I think that he may need to run plays where he can do that to make it happen. He will need to be coached heavily.
I would disagree about Tyreke a bit though. I think he does see 3 or more moves ahead on the floor, but this is typically for defenders on a drive. This shows me he has the ability, but is not expanding that to the whole floor, yet.
Cousins
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I thought the same thing Mustang
That Tyreke has a pretty remarkable ability to see spaces on the floor, or creases in the defense, that allow him to get to the rim when he is not remarkably athletic. However, that is a much different skill than seeing the whole floor and getting teammates the ball in a position to score, which is an interesting skill of DMC.
Our head guy
is obviously Luther Head
Keep Jason Thompson out of the damn fruit salad!
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 2, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Franchise Player or All-Star, it's pretty early to make that call
I agree with you assessment on Tyreke, but I don’t think either player is that much ahead of the other in development. I think it has more to due with their past environment and experiences.
Cousins was the 2nd fiddle in college, and had to learn how to work off of Walls play, while Tyreke was the main man and had to score points for his team. Then Tyreke came to the KIngs and was asked to be the same player, and when Cousins arrived he was again asked to be the 2nd fiddle. So, they are both comfortable in their roles.
Nash wasn’t the player he is today, a year and a half into his career. So, it’s pretty early to say how Evans will eventually turn out. But, he certainly doesn’t have the ball handling skills to run the point right now. That’s why the team needs a point now. Three years from now he may fill that spot. Just as three years from now DeMarcus could end up being our starting Center or PF.
Their futures are bright but uncertain at the same time. But that’s the way futures are when your talented. Rather than call either a franchise guy or a future all-star and create some type of image that neither can achieve, I’ll just call them great young talents for now.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Argh wrong box hence the repost (Sorry)
Just as three years from now DeMarcus could end up being our starting Center or PF.
You mean as opposed to this season where DMC has already started 30 of 45 games?
He certainly doesn’t have the ball handling skills to run the point right now. That’s why the team needs a point now.
I disagree. It’s not the ball handling but the process of how to integrate his scoring and keeping the other players involved that Reke hasn’t mastered.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Sactown Royalty: Where 8 games played qualifies you as a future superstar.
Just as three years from now DeMarcus could end up being our starting Center or PF.
You mean as opposed to this season where DMC has already started 30 of 45 games?
he certainly doesn’t have the ball handling skills to run the point right now. That’s why the team needs a point now.
I disagree. It’s not the ball handling but the process of how to integrate his scoring and keeping players involved that he hasn’t mastered.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Sactown Royalty: Where 8 games played qualifies you as a future superstar.
Why does it always have to be about the one
the best, the top, the star, the franchise player? It’s a team game, not a 1on1 contest. We (the Kings’ staff) should be thinking about ways to create teamwork and chemistry for our players to blend and improve. We have the talent and the cap space to be great.
Yet the media take, like it or not
is always " so-and-so" and the Sacramento Kings . . . .Or whatever team you want to talk about.
(usually)
I do in fact hope that we see a lot more of Tyreke to Cousins plays and Cousins to Tyreke plays but so far it’s been a pretty either / or proposition.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
I said DMC
I feel he has more of an impact on the out comes of games than Reke does…don’t get me wrong i’m sure the 20-5-5 affects the game in its own way, but i feel teams have already figured that Reke is a one trick pony, force him left and to sag off of him to force him to hit jumpers….the league has yet to figure out how to defend DMC…now maybe thats just because he is still a rookie;
If Reke can work on that jumper and DMC work on his back to the basket moves, I feel he relys on that jumper a little much for a 6’11 270+lbs center…it’s nice that he can hit that but it’d be nice if he only shot 5-6 jumpers a game and all of his other points were going to the rim
Hard to say about either becoming all-stars.
They’re both very young, and certainly both have areas of their games that can be improved, as with most players.
But in terms of upside? I think I have to go with Cousins. Evans arrived in the league almost as a finished product. His shooting needed work, and he has made marginal improvements, which I expect will continue.
Cousins, on the other hand, while skilled, will probably be the one to show more improvement from year to year, even if only basing this supposition on the fact that big men generally take longer to turn into their best selves.
I see Cousins as having a higher ceiling. As Cousins learns to play more under control, and stick to doing the many things he already does well, while honing said skills, he’s going to be the straw that stirs the drink in Sacramento.
Evans will become a better shooter, and hopefully learn to see the floor better, but I don’t really think he’s got it in him to be come a real master distributor or floor general. I don’t think Evans can truly become an all-star level player without a pass-first point guard at his side, and even that would be contingent on his development of a legitimate mid-range game. I think the ceiling for Tyreke would be Rip Hamilton, which would hardly be a bad thing for the Kings.
Cousins? I’m not really sure where to peg his ceiling. He’s a mobile, agile big, with soft hands, a good-and-can-still-get-better outside shot, and hits his teammates with laser passes when they are open. Can he eventually produce consistent Webber-type numbers? It’s early, but not hard to imagine, even for generally realistic half-empty types like me. Al Jefferson with passing skills and a leadership temperament? That would make him one hell of an asset.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Jan 31, 2011 5:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I have to go with Cousins
he’s been great and seems to have matured. He already has many characteristics of a dominant big man and will only improve. There aren’t a ton of very good centers in the league presently so I think he has the better chance of being an all star. I think he’ll also soon become the franchise player. Ususally a dominant big man will get much more attention than a guard. The guard will have to be a superstar to offset the dominant bigs. There are so many talented guards in the league that I think Tyreke will never get the attention he deserves. He’d have to explode and put up even better than the 20, 5, and 5 he did last year. Given Cousins higher ceiling and the scarcity of good big man I feel he’ll be the franchise player.
"You need to get real!"
In reality it doesn't matter who the first all star or franchise player is
If DeMarcus and Reke are even half as good as they can be, the Kings will be a very successful team for a long time.
"You need to get real!"
It really doesn't matter since it's possible to have 2 franchise players.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Good call all around.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 1, 2011 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
hard for me to say because CWebb was my favorite player
but I see Cuz as having a higher ceiling and I’d put it this way:
CWebb, at his best, was brilliant and creative and would make your jaw drop in the open court in the first, second or third quarters.
Cuz at his best is potentially a rock who wants the ball every time down in the 4th quarter and has a very high conversion rate.
In short, CWebb, at his best, was an inspired showman with freakish athleticism. But Cuz at his best could be dominant and a big-time winner.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Just going to throw this up here for reference sake
Webber’s Rookie Year Per 36
19.7 Pts – 10.2 Rbs – 4.0 Ast – 2.4 Blk – 1.4 Stl – 3 TOV – 3.6 PF
55.9 TS%
Cousins Rookie Year Per 36
18.5 Pts – 10.6 Rbs – 2.5 Ast – 1 Blk – 1.1 Stl – 3.7 TOV – 5.5 PF
47.9 TS%
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Webber was the same age actually.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I agree with that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
true
but I have a hard time believing that extra year in college helped Webber bump up his block rate or drop his foul by over a third.
Of course, this is like arguing between a fighter jet and a tank. Both are awesome.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
It didn't help at all?
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 2, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Well in regards to foul rate I have a hard time seeing one year in college being that significant of a benefit (that is unless said player didn’t play very many minutes prior) just because refs in college are pretty notorious for hardly calling anything down low in the post, even more so than in the NBA so not really sure how someone like DMC would learn exactly how NBA refs call fouls with one more year in college.
As for blocks, I can’t see Cousins doubling his production in one year unless he went through some seriously insane training. I guess it’s possible but I wouldn’t bet on it would you?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Better competition
more games against good players, more games at a much higher level than highschool for sure, more games period, better coaching, better conditioning.
I think there’s no doubt it helps quite a bit.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 2, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
well I should point out
that I never said it “didn’t help at all” or does not help “quite a bit.” I simply have a hard time believing it would decrease his foul rate by a third in one year. I also (although it’s true I didn’t really articulate this well in the beginning) doubt it would double his block rate. That’s all I am saying and that does not mean I think it doesn’t help “quite a bit.”
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
No, they're not the same player
no doubt. I wasn’t really responding to blocks, but better conditioning, and another year would have helped (you’d think) would, should probably help on that number as well.
I actually like though that he uses his body to defend more than standing to one side trying to block shots.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 3, 2011 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
DMCs number appear to be steadily rising
we’ll see in the end I suppose
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
And that's what I like to see
I would much rather a player be a rising sun than a shooting star.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
He's having a lot more of those 50% + shooting nights
assists are really starting to outnumber TO’s, he’s Usually staying on the floor 30 + minutes lately. It’s looking good. I could wish for a few more rebounds, but with him playing the high post so much the O chances get more limited.
But no worries about rebounds either at this point . . . f-ing rookie
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
I'll believe that Cuz can be Webber when I see it.
Just cause I’m so biased FOR Webber. It’s just that DMC isn’t as quick or athletic, and I doubt he’ll be utilized as well as Webber was.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 2, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Both are franchise caliber players
and perennial All-Stars. Absolutely no question. If I had to guess I would say Tyreke makes All-Star team 5+ years over his career and DeMarcus 7+ times. Time and experience and normal growth are all that need occur.
What will happen is when the team upgrades its overall talent base, it will all come together, individually and collectively. Players can play to their strengths, their weaknesses are minimized, and winning brings accolades for all. I like to use history as a guide, for example, the career of Chris Webber:
When C-Webb came into the league, first with the Dubs and then with the Wizards, he showed his undeniable skills but struggled to find chemistry with teammates, displayed inexperience, immaturity, an expected lack of polish, in particular 15 to 18 foot jumper, as he was surrounded by average talent, not unlike our two stars. When a more experienced C-Webb landed on the Kings, and Geoff surrounded him with appreciable and complementary talent, everything clicked. The attention due to others opened up C-Webb’s game, and he played off the strengths of teammates, maximized his skill set, and had a nice run.
Same will happen with Tyreke and Big Cuz when we add 2 to 3 more pieces of quality personnel, hopefully by next season. The team will take off.
One other factor to consider is the relative strength at PG, and relative weakness at C. There is a dearth of quality big men, and an abundance of top flight PGs in the West. This gives the edge to Cuz in terms of individual accomplishment. If I had to rate the Future Center rankings over the course of 5 years, Cuz would be at top of list.
1. Andrew Bynum (Age 23)
2. DeMarcus Cousins (Age 20)
3. Nene Hilario (Age 28)
4. Al Jefferson (Age 26)
5. Emeka Okafor (Age 28)
6. Marc Gasol (Age 26)
7. Chris Kaman (Age 28)
8. DeAndre Jordan (Age 22)
9. Robin Lopez (Age 22)
10. Marcin Gortat (Age 26)
11. Tyson Chandler (Age 28)
12. Andres Bedriens (Age 24)
13. Nenad Krstic (Age 27)
14. Darko Milicic (Age 25)
15. Joel Pryzbilla (Age 31)
15. Hasheem Thabeet (Age 23)
16. Ekpe Udoh (Age 23)
Portland does not have a healthy center. I cannot include Greg Oden or Yao Ming in this list for health reasons. Chuck Hayes is 6’6" so I will exclude him too. So basically this list is composed of limited players in their mid to late 20s, and unproven younger guys with much less talent than Cuz. I put Bynum on the top of the list only because he is more proven than Cuz, though Cuz outplayed him a few days ago, and does not have an injury history that Bynum does.
Cousins has not really been bothered by anyone on the list, except perhaps Marc Gasol. And Pryzbilla, whose career is winding down. He did struggle against Kaman and quickness of Nene, IIRC. But all part of the growth process. And of course this list does not factor in a collegiate who could make an immediate impact on the level of Cousins or better, and would alter the power balance accordingly.
Bottom line: At tender age of 20, Big Cuz can dominate his position and be primary catalyst to transform the Kings into winners. And sooner than later.
by bench_blob on Jan 31, 2011 8:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I hope you're right.
Both are franchise caliber players and perennial All-Stars. Absolutely no question. If I had to guess I would say Tyreke makes All-Star team 5+ years over his career and DeMarcus 7+ times. Time and experience and normal growth are all that need occur.
But at this stage?
I remain cautiously optimistic, but even C-Webb only made all-star five times.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Not pie in the sky...
realistic goals. I said in the preseason Cousins would be put up 20/10 games by midseason, and we are starting to see that play out.
The biggest unknown to me is his physical conditioning. Will Cuz commit to the work ethic required? To be an elite player, he has to get in better shape. I would expect his competitive desire will overcome immaturity and he will put in the work over the summer, and continuously, but whether that happens remains to be seen.
You're a regular nostradamus.
You predicted DeMarcus Cousins, a guy who had gotten 20/10 at every level, would get 20/10 at the NBA level. Nostradamus u b Blob.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't interrupt the blob when he's patting himself on the back!
by otis29 on Feb 1, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Can you smell what the blob is cookin'?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
If you want to belabor the point, we can. I made this comment one week into the season:
He can deliver and he will deliver. I think later this season we will see a stretch of 20/10 explosions. I believe.
I don’t think I went out on a huge limb either, but show me somewhere of the thousands of post that say something similar? Good luck.
I am not patting myself on the back, by the way, I am simply stating that not many people around here, including yourself Pookey, believed Cousins learning curve would occur this fast. And so to suggest he can be a multiple year all-star is not in the least far-fetched, which was my point to Andy Sims. C-Webb would have made the All-Star team 7X if he had not blown out of his knee. Based on his last two games, Cousins might make it 7X before the age of 30!
And let’s not forget you were the one with strong reservations about Cousins, and repeatedly stated your preference for Derrick Favors. A lot of StRs were off the mindset that Cousins would be a project this season, and would play a minimal back-up role. I never believed that from Las Vegas Summer league and since, because he is a basketball player who happens to be really big; not a really big guy trying to play basketball. Stark contrast. The fact that he falls into the former category steepens his learning curve and ability to make an impact sooner, as we are pleasantly witnessing.
It just reads a little weird when you talk about your predictions and previous opinions so much.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
I don't recall a lot of StR folk saying that Cousins would play a minimal back-up role
I thought that most of that conversation revolved around Favors. The primary concerns on Cousins seemed to be (a) his conditioning, and (b) his temperament, both of which turned out to be well-founded concerns. That’s what I recall, anyway.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I thought Cousins would be in the starting lineup.
But that’s me. I also thought if he averaged 15 & 8, that would be a great season for him given all the things he needed to do. He’s on track to meet that.
But I also believed multiple 20 & 10’s was very possible since I knew grabbing 10 boards would be easy for him and scoring 20 points in the NBA once in awhile isn’t all that hard when you have talent like Cousins does.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
For the record I predicted
Wall would get over 3 assists a game and back in the day Shaq would be a starter in this league.
How I haven’t been offered a front office position is beyond me.
GEOFF ARE YOU READING THIS BOARD?!?!?!?!
As I said in the post, the competition at guard is a lot deeper than up front
so Cousins has a built in advantage. I think it will be difficult for Tyreke to make the All-Star team for at least the next several years, so many good ones in the West.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I am more optimistic...
In fact I am willing to predict Tyreke makes the All-Star team next year. And both players make it the year after next.
I am not sure Kings fans realize how ridiculously talented Reke is. Or they are quick to forget. He is just having some growing pains with his decision-making and reading defenses that are designed around him. But with Reke moving better, and perhaps Cousins taking some of the defensive focus off Reke, I look for Reke to raise his game to last year’s production and above for rest of season.
Three weeks until deadline too, which could change dynamics as well. I put odds of trade occurring somewhere around 60/40 in favor.
Bynum neither sucks or is overrated.
But, if you think that most people consider him a top 30 NBA player, I also think you’re wrong. He’s just very good at what he does on a team that is one of the best in the NBA.
That doesn’t make him sucky or overrated IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Well said
He certainly doesn’t suck. I think he is a very good player, it’s too bad he cant stay healthy.
I'd take Bynum in a heartbeat
If he wasn’t so injury prone, I’d trade DMC straight up for him right now.
I wouldn't do that myself.
I don’t think Bynum’s talents mesh as well with the rest of the Kings.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I'd take DMC in a heartbeat over even a healthy Bynum
DMC has way more fire and passion than Bynum ever has. DMC already has a more diversified offensive repertoire and is a better passer. His ceiling is just higher.
I'm not sure we know that
For one, how fiery DeMarcus would act if he were on the same team with Kobe, or how Bynum would act if he were on the Kings.
I wouldn’t disagree that DeMarcus has more basketball skills than Bynum. But Bynum’s athletic gifts are a great equalizer IMO.
I'm down here in LA and I think it's safe to say that Mitch Kupchap would jump at a Bynum 4 Cuz deal
and as a Kings fan I would be horrified.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
As would I, if I were Kupchak
Read my caveat – “a healthy Bynum”.
I guess I could clarify this, since he’s technically healthy right now – “a Bynum without a history of injury problems”.
I would too Otis
I would be nervous, but I think a healthy Bynum without Kobe jacking up shots could be a 25-12 guy
Wrong
If he can’t get 12 rebounds now, he will not get 12 when Kobe is done jacking up shots. Also, he does not have the skill to put up 25 points in a reasonable amount of shots.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
That is incorrect
He plays with two tremendous rebounders in Gasol and Odom, he is a very good rebounder, and he is an excellent low post scorer.
Yes, you're correct
But you only mentioned Kobe in your statement above, if you intended to included Odom and Gasol I might have agreed with you.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
I see where you are coming from Otis
bur respectfully disagree.
First, fire is fire. Bynum has never had it. If Cousins was in LA, he may have had some of his immaturity stymied by the veterans, but he’d still be as intensely competitive and more emotional.
Not sure what you mean by athletic gifts either. Bynum is taller. But he’s not an athletic big like a Dwight Howard or KG. He’s like Cousins in the sense of being athletic, but not an uber-athlete.
I’m not hating on Bynum. When he was younger and there were even mild rumors of us trying to trade Artest for him (before the Gasol trade when Kobe was frustrated with Bynum), I wanted him badly. A healthy Bynum is a heck of a player. With that said, I’d take Cousins in a heartbeat.
You are craaaaaazy my friend
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
I've seen this one stand up to NBA Centers already
He was the best big man on the floor in the LA game.
No doubt.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2011 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Psh
For a night, sure. The questions on Cousins (long-term) still exist IMO. Sorry, I can’t pretend those have been answered at this point.
Cousins is a rookie. Assuming he progresses at a normal NBA pace and his maturing process continues, he’ll be a top five center in two years if that becomes his cemented position. He’ll be a top ten power forward if he were to become cemented in that role.
The kid has insane talent. He has a PF’s mid-range shot, a long-range shot that many established PFs don’t have, postup footwork that needs work, the passing skills of a point forward, a better dribble than any center I’ve ever seen, and the court vision of a shooting guard. Imagine all of that improved on.
Cousins is no joke.
by Charles L. Pierro on Feb 2, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
The new Stocton & Malone?
Why does it need to be one guy? I think both these guys need to grow together and if they realize their potential they will both be regarded as premiere players. They play such different positions that they don’t really compete with each other. If we are talking “all star” appearances then Demarcus has a clearer path at the moment because there is a clear deficit of all star caliber centers in the league. While there is a glut of all star caliber guards in the West alone.
But if we are lucky we might have a Stockton/Malone combo, if we hit the lottery and both make huge jumps next season and beyond maybe a Kobe/Shaq redo (dreaming right?). I wouldn’t overlook Caspi either in this equation, I think if he works he will be one heck of a player in 2 years or so.
I'm just gonna add world peace in there, and Luther Head evolving into Doug Christie.
Remember when some of you thought this team would play close to .500 ball this season, and with a little (that word) luck, we might grab an 8th seed?
Enjoy the wins and the improvement, I know I am. I’m not anything like convinced that this team can evolve into a playoff team without a legitimate point guard, and while he is certainly not unskilled, the offense looks crisper with Evans playing off the ball. If Casspi becomes a Hedo-type player who can defend, then he’d be ideal as a 6th man. We still need that third threat, be it at point guard or elsewhere.
I love building around Cousins and Evans, but I hope Petrie and Westphal envision Tyreke as a 2, and not a 1. Evans may grow, but I don’t think the organization can slow the progress of the team for the several years it would take for him to become an actual orchestrator of the offense.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 1, 2011 12:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I knew
I’d catch some heat for the Malone/Stockton and definately Shaq/Kobe comparisons. But I am being positive at this point and why not. I think the two of those players can develop take their games to an all-star level. And I disagree with you about Casspi. I really think he could develop into a solid starter at the SF for us.
I agree if we could ideally find a pass first PG (like Erving from Duke) it would improve our team greatly. Although I am not convinced that Evans can handle the point like you, I think Evans takes too much heat from fans at the moment. PG’s in general take a while to develop, 2-4 years. It’s a great threat to have a SG like Evnas though who can pass like he can. 6 assists a game from a SG would be special. It will be an interesting off season for sure.
I voted both
Ar first I didn’t believe that Reke was a good passer or had good BB IQ. Lately I’ve been rethinking that. In almost every game, he makes one or two passes that clearly show he is a talented passer. That behind the back fast break pass recently was a perfect example. And not only did it show he can make a great pass, but that he knew exactly where his man was.
I think it actually has much more to do with him focusing on the defense in front of HIM. He is so used to having to be the man that when he sees a tough defense, his first instinct is to mentally break down the defense. You don’t recognize opportunities for yourself the way he does without a high BB IQ. I also blame that same thing for his slow and constant dribbling. His focus is on the guys in front of him and he’s looking for that opening he can exploit.
Now take that same focus, attention to movement, and IQ, and open it up to running an entire offense., and I honestly believe this guy will be able to dissect defenses in a way that will surprise the entire league.
I think it will take two things. More trust in his teammates and more comfort in running his own game at the NBA level. Once he starts getting used to what teams are throwing at him he will be able to spend more time watching the whole floor looking for openings for his teammates and once he realizes he can pass the ball to other players and still be a star, he is going to be really nasty. And IMO that jump shot is just going to get better and better as well.
As far as big Cuz, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he is going to be a multiple time All Star. I just don’t. In fact with his personality, once he starts lightening up I think he could be a big time fan favorite outside of just Sac. He is too smart and too talented in too many areas not to be awesome. It’s starting already, but I think that Evans and Cuz are going to be viewed as a pair of huge draft steals.
And the funny thing is while this should feel like some far fetched, pie in the sky prediction, it feels a lot more like common sense. We haven’t had a pair of rooks look like this since the glory days. Good things are coming!!
[THIS SPACE FOR RENT]
Helping the Maloofs save their casino (and the Kings) one post at a time.
by SavageBeast on Feb 1, 2011 9:41 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Cousins might make the All-Star game next year due to lack of great West Centers
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I agree
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
Only if the Kings play .500 or better I think
They just don’t vote in or even assign many (any) guys from losing teams.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 1, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah if K-Love doesn't make it,
I’ll be a disgrace. Tim Duncan? Come on…I love him, but come on.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 2, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
It'll **** lol
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 2, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Duncan
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 3, 2011 5:51 AM PST up reply actions
Well there's your answer
Like Love, but Duncan is producing for the team with the best record in the league.
I mean Duncan’s team nearly has 4X as many wins (40 v 11). You can make a good case for Love, but certainly not a disgrace if Duncan gets selected instead. I’d pick him first.
Can't we just be happy that we have two young guys
who can both turn out to be franchise cornerstones? Most teams don’t even have one.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 1, 2011 2:52 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Maybe I'm crazy
But I seem to recall similar sentiments being expressed about Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes.
That’s a big grain of salt.
I’m very happy to have both of these guys, but when I see all-star forecasts that exceed those of the best player the franchise had in the past 15 years, I have to put down the Kool-Aid, and urge all involved to stay away from sharp objects and ledges, lest it somehow go awry.
Go Kings, keep improving, add some missing pieces, hope for the best.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
It's actually kind of amazing if you just go through NBA rosters and just pick out guys who at least during one part of their career it was believed around the league that guy was a guy to build a franchise around.
I think people often forget how insanely talented this league is. For what it’s worth, Tyreke and DMC at least seem to both have a good shot. That’s something at least.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Really?
But I seem to recall similar sentiments being expressed about Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes.
I suppose there were a few people saying that – my memory of the vibe around here was that we had mostly solved our problems in the frontcourt, not that we’d drafted two guys who were going to guarantee us future playoff appearances.
I certainly don’t recall anyone talking about possibly having drafted one of the top two or three players in the draft with JT and Spencer. There was definitely some of that with Tyreke and Cousins.
There’s also a huge difference in expectations between drafting guys in the top-5 and guys in the 10 to 15 range.
I generally agree with you though, a certain Winston Wolfe quote comes to mind when we assume greatness in these kids.
Yep.
Maybe I have a selective memory, but I don’t recall talk where JT and Hawes were going to be All-Stars. Mostly I remember people just hoping they wouldn’t be busts.
[THIS SPACE FOR RENT]
Helping the Maloofs save their casino (and the Kings) one post at a time.
Fringe All-Stars or even in talks was I think both JT & Hawes best case scenario's.
And with Hawes, I didn’t even see that being possible in his 2nd or 3rd season.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Not picking on anyone
But just based on a cursory search, ooh, that’s gotta hurt.
The beauty of me is that what I say sounds ridiculous immediately, and more so in retrospect.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Opinions are like assholes.
Everybody’s gotta ‘em. Apparently I’m all asshole all the time.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2011 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And I've made plenty of mistakes in the years past and will again.
Everybody does when being a pundit. Of the 3, I thought Donte or JT would have a better shot than Hawes at an All-Star bid. And that was if everything worked out to a T.
We all know what really happened.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Oh, we've all had our share.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Is that the first time you've heard that?
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
I think some
thought Hawes had a chance at being an All-Star once or twice because of the weak field at Center.
Heck, I think he still does but I’ll go with what I believe I said a few years ago, his best years will be the 25-28 range and assuming health, he may have a shot.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 2, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
That was where I was going with it.
Brad Miller made an All-Star game for that very reason lttg. (In the East with the Pacers, not with the Kings. He earned that bid.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Voted both..
Because I like to cop out!
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Cousins has the edge
Right now he’s No. 1 in both total points (not points per game) and total rebounds in his draft class.
The only players since 1975 to own that double-double in their draft class are Howard, Nowitzki, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Webber, Shaq, Malone, Drexler and Bird. Pretty rarefied air if he can keep it up and pull that off.
As for Tyreke, he’s No. 1 in total points in his draft class currently, but Stephen Curry has been gaining on him and I think will pass him by the end of this season. So will Blake Griffin eventually.
What kind of player is third in scoring in his draft class? Since 1995, it’s a pretty nice list, just not as special as the Cousins names above. It includes: Fields (not W.C.), B Lopez, Horford, Aldridge, D Willliams, Igoudala, Wade, Boozer, J Rich, Mike Miller, Rip Hamilton, Carter, Billups, Allen and Stackhouse. Plenty of All-Star appearances in that group and a few rings as well.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Interesting collection of data there, very nice.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
A couple other factoids along the same line
Jason Kidd is the only player since 1975 to lead his draft class in scoring, rebounds AND assists. A few other guys like LeBron and Magic came close.
Players who have led their draft class in both scoring and assists since 1975 were as follows:
- 1979: Magic
- 1986: Jeff Hornacek
- 1990: Gary Payton
- 1994: Kidd
- 2003: LeBron
- 2005: Chris Paul
Again, it’s pretty tough to knock that company.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Total points is good if your looking a consistency, because it shows longevity ability.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup
Interesting
Although with time, I think Fields will drop too. He is a nice role player and a great pick for round 2. But he’s also bumping up against his ceiling already.
You may be right
More likely is that some of the other players will get more PT at some point and get ahead of him that way.
"His D was a difference at the end."
He's a good player, especially for a rookie
and has been very solid. Very. Now the whole ‘playing in the media capital of the World’ hasn’t hurt.
I don’t see any All-Star games in his future though.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Feb 4, 2011 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Sactown Royalty
Related FanShots on Sactown Royalty
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
