Samuel Dalembert Remembers End Of Kings' Season Kindly For Good Reason
by Tom Ziller on Dec 1, 2011 4:47 PM PST
in Commentary
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PrintSI.com's Sam Amick talked to Samuel Dalembert about the potential to return to the Sacramento Kings. Dalembert mentions the John Salmons move as a positive, and jokes about how if he'd gotten more minutes early in the season the team would have won 40 games. (That was a joke, right? Either way, I laughed.) He liked the way that the team came together toward season's end.
"At the end, everything was good," Dalembert said. "We were winning, we were beating teams no one expected us to beat.
"We showed some character as a team and we started to really synchronize with each other and had an understanding that our ultimate goal is to really win games."
Well ...
The team did finish strong, as Dalembert and Amick note: the Kings went 9-9 from March 14 on, and 8-7 from March 20 on. And Dalembert indeed played more: he averaged 21 minutes per game before the All-Star break, 29 in March and 34 in April. As a result, his stats all went up substantially.
But let's not get carried away.
If the Kings were beating teams no one expected them to beat it was only because the Kings had been so awful all year that no one expected them to beat anyone. In that 9-9 stretch to close the season, the Kings' victims were the Warriors twice, the Wolves, Bucks, Pacers, Sixers, Jazz and Rockets. Given the state of the Jazz at season's end, four of those wins were against teams legitimately as bad or worse than the Kings. The win over the Bucks is nothing to write home about. The other four wins were solid, especially the Rockets and Suns. But it's not like the Kings were knocking off contenders or anything.
Beyond the wins, the Kings' Sam-heavy finish looks even less impressive. The Kings' total season efficiency differential was -5.4. From the point at which Sam began getting consistently heavy minutes (March 12), the Kings' differential was -3.6. It's still awful.
Further, Sam's impact comes on defense. But the Kings' defense improved only 0.4 points per 100 possessions in the final 19 games where Dalembert played more minutes.
To recap: the Kings improved less than it seems toward the end of the season, and Dalembert's defense had less impact than it seems.
This isn't to say Dalembert isn't a good fit -- rim defense is going to remain important for a team with two top-of-the-rotation guards (Thornton and Jimmer) whose defense comes in as questionable. He's also a great rebounder, and you always need rebounding. But if the Kings keep him, it won't be because of that 9-9 run, nor should it be.
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True, false or somewhere in between
I am very happy with Sammy having happy thoughts about the Kings. I think he was a good fit last year and could be even better this go round. At one stage I though he would be no chance to return, but it is now looking like a possibility at least.
Proud supporter of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Columbus Blue Jackets.
Sacramento King for life.
by Crazy King Man from OZ on Dec 1, 2011 5:06 PM PST reply actions
I get the feeling Sam wants to be a 36 minute a night player.
And he just won’t get that here. I think he’ll be unhappy if he signs with us.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
Depth is going to be important with the compressed schedule
I don’t think anyone – anyone – should play over 32-33 minutes this year.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 1, 2011 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
But
He’s gonna sign for more than one year. Then what?
by wildcard530 on Dec 2, 2011 8:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Bring him back
Dally and Demarcus were perfect compliments and gave Sacramento an elite front court.
Why do I feel like
The Kings front office doesn’t know any of this until you point it out. I also get the feeling they don’t pay any attention. Sometimes they remind me of the pre-Billy Beane A’s. Not that this has nay bearing in reality. It’s just a feeling. Maybe it’s because I saw Moneyball a while back. I don’t know.
You do realize Jerry Reynolds
speaks of all of these things and brings up even more relevant insights often not mentioned here or elsewhere. He’s a talking head for the franchise and is fully aware of most and more things than we are here at StR. He communicates regularly with the FO and I’m positive with Geoff’s basketball IQ that these things are all duly noted by the Front Office.
Whatever.
So what your saying is that Geoff and JR have basketball jobs in the front office because they know way more than us at STR. That’s just crazy talk.
"We're like Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But a younger version. I really feel that." - Charlie Villanueva about himself and Chris Bosh.
Well he didn't exactly post the rebounding stats
The advanced stats I’ve seen had Sacramento rated in the elite range with Dalembert playing. Frankly with a team anchored by Reke, Cousins, Jimmer and Thorton, a pure defensive minded center is the perfect complimentary piece. At this point another offensive piece comes with a diminishing return.
I’m not even sure those pre / post Dalembert numbers mean the narrative he is trying to argue either … let’s not get carried away
The Kings weren’t beating anyone pre-March so I don’t understand the snobbery towards the post-March .500 record. Maybe you didn’t catch it, no teams were taking the Kings seriously in November and December either. If the argument is Dally alone doesn’t make a basketball team championship level he’s got the proof. However the record indicates the team was better with him. The +/- numbers are also a shaky case. Find me 20 games in the Kings season were three variables weren’t changing at the same time. How is it possible to take the teams +/- analysis and apply them to any individual on the Kings roster last season?
I know one thing with my eyes last season. When the Kings were shooting themselves in the foot they were beating the pulp out of opponents in the post with Dally and Demarcus. Teams like the Lakers who rely on their size advantage were being nullified and times the table turned against them.
by bignerd on Dec 1, 2011 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
That's not the argument
It just seems like the front office doesn’t pay attention to advanced statistical detail like this. I think the team should re-sign Dalembert because they’re better with him, assuming they can’t land Gasol.
I thought I was pretty direct
These aren’t good numbers in his post. He’s applying team +/- stats to an individual. He is comparing the post-March .500 record to imagination and opinion instead of the pre-March numbers. Its an opinion piece taking numbers that back his opinion, not an advanced statistical breakdown.
by bignerd on Dec 1, 2011 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
What nerd said.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fair enough.
But instead of giving my opinion based on what I saw on the court, I’m offering some evidence. The team didn’t PERFORM that much better than earlier in the season, even if it looked prettier.
Dalembert inadvertently built the case for himself by saying the team was much better when he got big minutes. I am just trying to point out that the team wasn’t actually much better late in the season. His numbers were. The team’s numbers were not.
by Tom Ziller on Dec 2, 2011 7:05 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You expect a Free Agent campaigning to get the best situation and the most dollars to tell the truth from A to Z?
You expect an athlete who has always embraced intellectual conceits to not do so this time?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Isn’t it a known fact that the Kings don’t employ advanced stats people? Am I wrong?
I’m not saying they don’t know basketball. I’m saying it seems like they don’t pay attention to this level of statistical detail. How about proving THAT wrong instead of arguing against something I didn’t say?
It's difficult to prove a negative.
I think the truth is that we just don’t know.
"We're like Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But a younger version. I really feel that." - Charlie Villanueva about himself and Chris Bosh.
by kwill on Dec 1, 2011 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure the Kings do NOT have advanced stats people
I remember reading a list of teams that do hire those people, I don’t see the Kings on the list.
Rebuilding the Kings.
They don't have many Carl if they do have them.
But I doubt they do. Petrie just won’t embrace it and the Maloofs won’t spend the money for it either as long as Petrie isn’t asking for that.
On the other hand, Jerry Reynolds has mentioned in the past that he uses Synergy so I think in some senses they do attempt to make use of the technology at hand. And, I’m not convinced statistical analysis leads to better management. I’ll use Daryl Morey as an example. I’ll never understand how any numbers state that you take Marcus Morris when you have Patrick Patterson on your roster. They are the same player only Patterson is significantly better. To top it off, the Rockets then traded for Donatas Motiejunas. I don’t get that either. That makes less sense than taking Marcus Morris IMO.
Teams, with or without numbers, make mistakes. I’m not sure how Petrie’s viewpoint regarding basketball has changed from before, and I don’t really see how statistical analysis changes his viewpoint for the better at this stage. In some ways, statistical analysis has helped me. But I’m not Geoff Petrie, and I always can stand to learn a thing or two more than what I knew at the start of today. When you’re Geoff Petrie, you don’t need to pretend to be that humble even if you are.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm usually an advocate of stats
But I’m not aware of any metric that has significantly influenced the fortunes of a franchise in the NBA. Things like TS% is good to distinguish between a ball hog and a good offensive player, but for the most part, that is pretty obvious when watching the games.
I get the feeling that it has to do with the fact that there are only 5 players on the court, and individual performance is heavily influenced by things like chemistry and style of play which are extremely difficult to quantify. I think if anything, advanced stats should be used to validate what you believe you are seeing with your eyes.
I remember an article a couple years ago showing how, statistically, the Thunder were better off when Durant wasn’t on the floor. KD wasn’t a superstar yet, but it was obvious it wasn’t true.
Also, there is a significant drop in talent between the superstars and the average NBA player. It is easy to see who the good and great players are. The average players that we end up debating about due to certain statistical anomalies probably to not make much difference in the grand scheme of things.
I would offer him an
8.5 mil deal sign and traded to Atlanta for Josh Smith.
by Chent on Dec 1, 2011 5:37 PM PST via mobile reply actions
They need a center
Smith has been on and off the trading block in hopes to land a center. I have a feeling this is the year they trade him. It would have to be more than that I kind of just blurted that out, maybe s&t Dally Greene 2nd round pick or something like that. We have the pieces to make it work
by Chent on Dec 1, 2011 6:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Atlanta would like to play Horford at PF
That is his natural position, where he would be best utilized, and that is how they beat Orlando in the playoffs last year.
A lot like Elton Brand in that respect. Natural PF, but miscast as a C because of the lack of good 7 footers in the NBA
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Curious...
…How many of those final games was Thornton a part of? The Kings really need to redsign him, he had me off the couch and excited even though I knew we weren’t heading to the playoffs.
The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.
by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011
*Resign (damn smartphones!)
The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.
by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011
Thornton played in all of those games.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well there you go
Thanks Pook, I thought that was the case, but I have found it best to ask rather than imply without validation.
For me, Thornton is the key to happiness for the coming year, and beyond
The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.
by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011
by Dirkula on Dec 1, 2011 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Completely agree
He’s so exciting and plays with tenacity. I cant wait to see the growth of Evans/Cousins, The smart play and dead eye shooting of Jimmer, the jumping jack JJ, and to just watch THORNTON trade buckets with players like Kobe and Wade. He plays with no fear and he instantly became one of my favorite players.
As I've said
offer 4 ys at $8m/ea
It’s the best he’ll get
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
throw tyson chandler a contract.
at least we know he won’t try and pull off a post move fadeaway or shoot from the top of the key. Sammy’s an awesome guy and all, and he is a great rebounder, help defender, and motor, but I only see him declining from here on out. And some of the questionable plays from last season I just don’t want to see anymore. Doubt Chandler will sign here, but who knows. Money talk and we’ve got a good amount. I also liked that Josh Smith idea I read above. Always been a fan of him and thought he needed a change in scenery.
by KingsFromNY on Dec 1, 2011 9:08 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Tyson Chandler would be a great compliment to DMC and JJ
Deandre Jordan would be a good pickup too.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
We
have 4 PF’s on the roster. Smith plays mostly PF when Horford plays center. I would rather see JJ Hickson get play time.
but word on the street is Josh Smith lost 30 lbs over the summer/fall
And he proved in the playoffs last year against Orlando he is still best as a SF
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
What are you expecting?
i think expecting something earth shattering may be a really bad idea.
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
Create a marketplace...
Thanks for the stats TZ.
Let’s remember, the job of a free agent is to create a demand in the marketplace for themselves. The more teams that think they can sign Sam, the more money he will make.
I just don’t see Sam coming back.
I need some Kings new, rumors, anything!
The 9th seems so far away at this point. I would like Daly back if we can’t come to terms with any of the other top 3 centers. Does our team really need any other position? Maybe a Veteran player at some position.. But I’m not even sure what position we need one at. Some of you on here are in the opinion of not spending a lot of cap space and I agree to a point, but what are the Kings waiting for? If we can upgrade any spot on the roster significantly I think they should make that move. Save money for Reke and JT or Donte.. I just don’t see waiting till next year. The odds of us signing any huge FA next year are not that great so…
by Sincere P. on Dec 2, 2011 10:20 AM PST via mobile reply actions
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