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Thanks JJ.
BTW, loving the Bieber do.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
It's like Ron Weasley and Justin Bieber had a baby
try to get tath image out of your head now.
Who would want to?
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 14, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Wish granted
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
by DTG13 on Dec 14, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
It's a little long right now.
I’m a busy man. I don’t have time for such things as hair cuts.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
Hey!
James Ham was rocking that do before Bieber was even born!
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 14, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, yes, before Bieber was born.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
Lol james
“Fucking spent four hours at training camp, an hour writing, two hours editing video, another hour putting this shit online, and all these fucks want to talk about is my goddamn haircut!!!”
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
by iashwash on Dec 14, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
i seriousness though i was looking at the video of
Tyreke’s shot, it looks really good.
Tyreke's shot, Tyreke's shot
Will he do that in games – or revert?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
Even last year I thought his set shot looked alright
But it’s his pull-ups and off the dribble shots that we see that fade. It was working at the Goon Squad Classic (like really working, he was on fire), but will that translate to an actual NBA game with real defense?
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
In my experience,
when people shoot set shots with no legs (Tyreke on that 10-12 3pt video yesterday), come game time, the adrenaline and game speed boost the legs and they overshoot. Nobody shoots that calmly in the game.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 14, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Donte Greene was 20 pounds overweight last year..?!
Not Donte? Say it ain’t so?!
It couldn’t have been true, not at least according to the Cowbell Kingdom and their bias and homer reporting, and those in denial around here who wanted to stubbornly defend him, despite abundance of evidence to the contrary.
The naive conclusion was Donte bulked up to play the ‘4’, that there was a miscommunication between Donte and the coaching staff.
All bunk. He was immature and unprofessional. Now we know.
As far the prospects, John Hollinger nails it (as he does with most of the King profiles):
DONTE GREENE, SF
Projection: 14.5 pts, 5.3 reb, 1.8 ast per 40 min; 10.10 PER | Player card
• Combo forward sickened with 3-point fever. Seeks to do little else.
• Has length to be major defensive force. Subpar rebounder. Lacks strength.
• Poor ballhandler for wing. Needs to revamp game to take advantage of length.
Greene’s delusions of 3-point grandeur have pretty much stifled his development. A career 32.0 percent 3-point shooter, he made 29.2 percent last season but took 40 percent of his shots from beyond the arc. He also shot 26-of-82 (32 percent) on 2s longer than 10 feet and is a career 67.8 percent shooter from the line. In other words, there is an abundance of evidence that he is not a good outside shooter, and virtually none pointing to the opposite conclusion, yet he keeps focusing on this element of his game at the expense of the others.
What Greene should be doing is running, slashing and, above all else, defending. He shot 73.6 percent at the rim in 2010-11, and at 6-foot-11 with good mobility, he can be a force just by cutting hard and finishing off feeds from teammates. Instead he’s a huge negative on offense, with a mystifyingly high turnover ratio for a wannabe spot-up shooter with one of the worst TS%s at his position every season.
As for defense, Greene’s length could enable him to be very good. He struggles to keep up with quick wings, but at his height he can play two steps off his man and still be in position to challenge a jump shot. It hasn’t worked out that way, however, and Greene’s defensive numbers are pretty average. He’s also been a disappointing rebounder given his size.
Greene played just one season at Syracuse and is only 23 years old, so he could recover. But he has to dramatically reconfigure his game to take advantage of his talents.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
by bench_blob on Dec 14, 2011 10:29 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
This. Right here.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Reverting back to your old ways, eh?
A threadiquette reminder:
You want to call someone out or insult someone? Take it to another site. Disagree with someone’s opinion all the live-long day, but don’t insult the individual. I used to umpire, and I used to tell the players that they could say that I made a horsesh*t call, but they better not say that I was horsesh*t. Same thing applies here. In other words, it is OK hate the play, but don’t hate the player. This includes attacks on nameless or faceless individuals. Leave the “in spite of what others would tell you” bull-plop at the door, as it is a flame war just waiting to happen. If you have a point to make, make it, but do so without discrediting others. Let the conversation take its natural course. This does not mean that you cannot respond directly to a thread post. To be clear, you may disagree with someone, vehemently so if you are impassioned. But leave the personal rancor out of it. You are disagreeing with the viewpoint, not the individual.
You’ve been warned about this before, and quite frankly, you’re better than that. Please stop. Thank you.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 14, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Adding -
You could have made your point without insulting others. And you know that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 14, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Apologies.
Thought we could be critical of media, like Aileen Voison, Napear, etc. Thought CK was same category.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
"Those in denial around here..."
And you know that JJ is also a member here, and an asset. This does not mean that you have to agree with him, but accusing him of bias and homer reporting is uncalled for.
And you know that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 14, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So Blob's threadiquette IQ high because he knows all this,
but his decision-making is low. See what I’m saying about Cousins??
(Mine is too Blob)
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 14, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
This is not a news flash
There were plenty of discussions around here last season about Donté’s additional weight and lack of conditioning being masked as a “bulking up” to play the four spot.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
flagged
the hollinger assessment does seem correct
your attitude and approach to discussing it was offensive.
Where's my pie
by TheFifthMookie on Dec 14, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Bench Blob
I am slightly confused by the personal attack. Here is a portion of the Q&A I did with Greene last season at training camp, followed by my thoughts on the subject from October 10, 2010.
TPP: This has kind of been a difficult camp. There has been talk that you came in at 260. Talk of 25-30 pounds extra weight. What was your motivation for that? Was it good weight or bad weight?
DG: It depends on how you look at it, it was bad and good. It didn’t really effect my game, it actually helped my game. I was much stronger in the post but coach wasn’t happy. He didn’t want me to be that heavy so I’ve been working to get it down. I’m down to 240 right now.
I could speculate all day long about Greene’s intentions for adding the weight that he did, but again, that would be creating the news, not reporting it. Coach Westphal has made it perfectly clear that neither he nor anyone else in the organization approved such a substantial weight gain from Greene and until he has decreased his size, his minutes will remain limited. This whole turn of events is unfortunate, but if Donté continues to drop the pounds, he might be able to get right back in this small forward race.
If you don’t like my reporting, that is fine, don’t read it. But please don’t misrepresent my perspective on a point when I have clearly laid it out in the past. Very poor use of a straw man argument BB.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
by jjham15 on Dec 14, 2011 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Well put
My recollection is this was a big topic for a while around here. It seemed Donté was throwing out the “bulk up to play the four” as a cover for having a lazy summer.
I don’t remember CK or StR doing anything other than reporting the information. I suspect we all knew the truth pretty early on.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Too much Call Of Duty will expand the booty.
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
Sorry if I offended JJ
I think you do an adequate job, though I do not know your work specifically (just the site). I just recall about a dozen arguments I had on this site with people who refused to acknowledge the obvious, that Donte was bloated and out-of-shape. It was frustrating this was not apparent to others as it was to me, but I guess thats my issue. There were those who refused to accept that Donte was capable of professional negligence, despite multiple signs to the contrary.
As a passionate and outspoken Kings fan, I know I am capable of ruffling a few feathers on quest for truth regarding players, team, coaches, league. If I spark discussion and challenge conventional opinion that I may perceive as flawed so others think more critically about the team we all want to see win, while having fun in the process, then site becomes more stimulating and entertaining. When someone thinks I am an idiot and are willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate, I welcome that too.
Regarding your excerpt above, it is my opinion that Donte was dodging the question, and talking in circles. Instead of being direct, admitting he gained weight he should not have, he became evasive. As an interviewer, I would have pressed him on his answer, because frankly it was bullshit. I also don’t see how speculating is creating news. If you are offering your opinion, you are doing just that.
Anyway, please don’t take offense my challenging of your opinion. I don’t mean it as a personal attack. I just expected more. I do appreciate that there are times you are in a difficult or delicate position in which you want to have access to these players, and if you offer commentary to alienate them, perhaps you jeopardize that access. And you are a fan too and want to see these guys realize their potential. I think that has been established. Ultimately, I guess, I would hope that when you feel criticism is justified, you will feel free to express it.
Good luck covering team this season.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I have no issues with constructive criticism.
But I would hope that you would read my work before you call it “bias and homer reporting” because that is not constructive or even educated criticism. As for you challenging my opinion, you are always welcome, but first you need to know my opinion, which means you will have to read my work. Secondly, make sure that I am expressing an opinion and not just reporting what a player or coach says.
There are plenty of places to get opinions on Kings basketball, but precious few places to get actual Kings news and information. What you typically get from Jonathon Santiago and myself at Cowbell Kingdom is Kings news and analysis. I have a lot of opinions myself on Kings basketball, but I rarely share them publicly now that I am covering the team.
I will make this last point – your “quest for truth” stops at a computer screen or a television set. I have taken my personal quest for truth into the practice facility, locker room, coaches office and press box of the Sacramento Kings. I know a lot more than what I write, but developing relationships takes time – months and even years. Ending those relationships takes seconds.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
by jjham15 on Dec 14, 2011 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
….precious few places to get actual Kings news and information…
Really? I guess this might be the source of our conflict. I don’t think you are being completely intellectually honest, now or in the past. Maybe I am mistaken but I don’t think we are at a loss for information regarding the NBA or the Kings, with or without the esteemed outpost that is CK.com.
We live in a time when information is more abundant than it has ever been. Would you not agree?
We have so many resources at our fingertips with NBA TV and blogs and advanced statistic web sites like 82games.com and ESPN Insider and Twitter to report every ebb and flow, if Cowbell Kingdom were to disappear no one would be at a fledging loss for information.
Sorry if this deflates your feeling of self-importance, but your web site is one of numerous resources fans have access to that three years ago, five years ago, ten years ago were not available to us.
Information was not nearly as prevalent. And you know it and I know it. So let’s be honest about this.
Is it nice to have a fan like yourself following the team? Sure. Is it necessary and does it provide invaluable information? Not really. Because I can go to Kings Flix You Tube page and see interviews in their entirety. And I do almost every day now that the lockout is mercifully over. A lot of what you do is just providing the salient points from an interview. Right? I am not trying to diminish your efforts, I am just calling it as it is.
I give credit to you and others when questions are asked of the coach and players that other media members may be unwilling or unaware to ask. This is the kind of effort that can be a real difference maker to fans who are discontent with beat reporters going through the motions.
Yet you make my central point with your last paragraph, which is that you need to tread lightly in your interaction and subsequent interpretation with players or else you jeopardize your relationship. You can’t tell us what you really think, what you may be privy to off the record, what you may have learned that you are unable to share because your access may be subsequently restricted.
As a result, the information that you provide may be filtered and watered down. How valuable is this? Not very.
Again, because of the sensitivity around here, I guess I have to say I am not trying to offend you, or should I apologize preemptively to the moderator? I am not here to bust your balls. I am just trying to speak the truth without getting banned from this site, or another warning and condescending email.
Bottom line: Donte Greene is a human being! He is capable of mistakes! Donte Greene did not take full responsibility for the consequences of his actions! Donte Greene learned from his mistakes! Donte Greene has matured! Donte Greene may have his best year ever! Go Donte!
Did Cowbell Kingdom provide an accurate account of what actually occurred? Did Cowbell Kingdom call Donte out for sporting a beer gut in 2010 training camp? Did Cowbell Kingdom provide insight available from no other source? Not really. And this is because you either couldn’t disclose the facts (per your admission) or you didn’t see it, out of naivety or wishful thinking as an ardent fan.
Regardless, the truth was missed.
Not a criticism, just my uncensored perspective, from someone who can offer an uncensored point of view from over 25 years of faithful and dedicated NBA viewing.
Go Kings.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
Respectfully disagree
Opinion is available from a vast menu of “experts.” On site inspection and analysis is few and far between – there are just not that many people that are down at the arena actually watching this team practice, actually talking to the players and the coaching staff, etc.
See, that’s the difference – the CK guys offer their perspective based on hand’s-on experience. You offer your opinions based on third-person information. They are in the game, while you sit on the sidelines. They report on the moment, while you snipe a year after the fact.
Not a criticism, just my uncensored perspective, from someone who can offer an uncensored point of view from over 25 years of faithful and dedicated NBA viewing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 15, 2011 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
There are some here that defend Donte' - or any of 'our' guys no matter what
I mostly agree and have agreed with Hollinger on him. I wonder if he’s in the league in a few years.
But let me add to some others that James has never been one of those, I think his reporting is pretty straightforward and the attack was unwarranted.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
But I'd like to point out again that Hollinger
based on all his number crunching – didn’t think much of Kevin Durant after his first and second seasons.
Sooooo
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Problem is Hollinger's numbers measure offensive efficiency more than overall game
He’s spot on about Donte offensively, but missing the fact that he’s been morphing into a pretty darn effective defender. With his size and lateral quickness, he has the potential to reak havoc on offenses and guard stretch 4s the way Odom did for the Lakers during their peak.
Greene still needs to learn more about team D, but it’s not as if he hasn’t progressed. It’s just his offense that needs refinement if he wants to stick in the league as a defensive stopper.
That's me.
I tend to be overly loyal to those wearing the home colors.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 14, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
A lot of people defended Donte when there was a robust Donte/Casspi debate.
I don’t really see a lot of people clamoring for him to log a ton of minutes this season, though.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
He shoots a lot of 3's
I thought that was PW criteria to play the 3 position on our team. Play good D and spot shoot 3’s. It seems like he is doing what he is told
Thanks JJ
Great stuff as always. I’m a little nervous of Cuz’s injury. Icing is no big deal, but that it’s the same injury from last year makes it sound like more than a ding. Any thoughts?
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Sounds like he has a slight shoulder impingement as I have had for a bunch of years
It can be cleaned up pretty easily – but I hate the doctors.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2011 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
New nickname for our front court starters: Sweet & Low?
by SPTSJUNKIE on Dec 14, 2011 10:46 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm a fan.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 14, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
JJ, another thing that seems to be in mid-season form
is your reporting. You are doing a seriously fantastic job and your articles are an informative pleasure to read. IMHO
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 14, 2011 11:37 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
DMC sprained his ankle steppimg on Thomas' foot
Cut Thomas NOw!
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 14, 2011 1:39 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Cut?? What's cut mean?
I thought we were amnestying everyone?
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 14, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
knicks out of crawford chase
down to portland and kings then
FRANKS AND BEANS FRANKS AND BEANS
by lemmetakeutodamovies on Dec 14, 2011 2:50 PM PST reply actions
Ugh!
More decruiting needs to be done on twitter!
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 14, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
i tried to follow the NY tweeters, couldn’t handle them
FRANKS AND BEANS FRANKS AND BEANS
by lemmetakeutodamovies on Dec 14, 2011 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Hey Jamal, get a load of Sacramento women -
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 14, 2011 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
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