In Losing Chuck Hayes, Kings' Immediate Future In Flux
by Tom Ziller on Dec 20, 2011 10:53 AM PST
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The priority right now for Chuck Hayes is to ensure he can remain healthy while plying his trade. Unlike the Jeff Green situation, no one has indicated whether a medical procedure can fix whatever is wrong with Hayes' ticker, or whether what is wrong is a serious, life-threatening issue or just a bug the Sacramento Kings determined to be too big a risk for their commitment. We know nothing about Hayes' situation other than the Kings were not willing or able to finalize that four-year, $21 million contract once the team doctors saw stress echo test results. Hayes could be done for the season, for his career or another team could decide that with monitoring, perhaps medication and insurance, they can take the risk that the Kings cannot.
While we'll all be cheering for Hayes no matter what happens -- a sentiment no doubt shared by the front office, coaching staff and roster -- the season will go on. Opening day in Monday. The final preseason game is tonight. The team has lost its starting power forward, its best defender and its starting-five "glue guy". Where does the team go from here? How will Sacramento's title chances be affected by the loss?
The fortunate part is that there are two more power forwards on the roster no team would be embarrassed to start in J.J. Hickson and Jason Thompson. Like Hayes, they will be asked to be supplemental weapons on offense, to go hard on the glass on both ends and to defend well. Thompson's the better defender (based on what I've seen of Hickson over the years), but is addicted to foul trouble. Hickson is the more excitable on offense, which can be good or bad.
The Kings can absolutely go into the regular season with a three-big rotation of DeMarcus Cousins, J.J. Hickson and Jason Thompson, with Travis Outlaw and potentially Donte Greene filling in as stretch fours. (With Hayes and Cousins out and Outlaw still at ye ol' auction on Saturday, Greene played quite a bit of power forward.) Remember: Thompson was actually pretty good as the third big last season once Carl Landry was traded. Hickson was solid as a starter for the LeBron era Cavaliers; he fell off the map last season when asked to be nearly the team's entire offense. (Turns out: he's not LeBron!)
Defensively, the Kings will be bad if that becomes the three-man big rotation for the Kings. Real bad -- worse than last year, considering that Cousins is a defensive drop-off from Samuel Dalembert at center and Hickson is likely a drop-off from Cousins at power forward due to size. But the Kings will also be bad defensively in the backcourt, so hey. Why not?
Of course, defense is the reason Dalembert's name has popped back into play. If the Kings add Dalembert, Cousins will likely shift back to power forward and both Hickson and Thompson would come off of the bench, as they would have if Hayes were with the team. That's a better defensive solution than the current set-up, but a downgrade on the Hayes-Cousins tandem the team thought it had. It's also a big offensive downgrade; all that Dalembert can do well on offense is rebound. Unfortunately, he believes that he can do much more. That takes precious possessions off the board, and I imagine that it (along with cost) is one of the major reasons the Kings and Dalembert don't already have a deal.
Andrei Kirilenko would be a better fit, in my estimation, if he's still considering Sacramento as an option. A truer power forward, Kirilenko could essentially slot into exactly the role Hayes would have played: defensive stopper and anchor, ball-mover, occasional scorer. Kirilenko's certainly a different defender than Hayes -- long and fast, vs. strong and unmovable -- but the effect is in the same in a macro sense: you relieve pressure on Cousins to guard the quicker power forwards in the game, and you slow down the pick-and-roll turnstile that will be open for business most nights.
For Dalembert, there's the sense that he could join the team in an hour if the Kings give him the salary he wants. Kirilenko is a big ol' question mark, and there's no question that Sacramento will have to shell out quite a bit of money to get him out here, and there's no sense at all that he'd be ready for opening day, or even within the first 10 games, as he seems quite content to keep playing in Russia until there's a deadline of some sort. (He reportedly has until January 9 to leave CSKA Moscow before he's locked in for the season. I would hope that the Kings, if they are still in the mix for him, would set some sort of deadline on an offer to him.)
But the middle path exists, and while it's the inferior option -- even with his offensive issues, I'd rather have Dalembert than not at this point -- it's tenable. Sacramento can go into the season with the roster (minus the camp invites) that suits up tonight at The Gymmer. Keep that in mind as a new round of rumors swirl.
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If JT would just sit tight on screens for another second
He won’t get those dumb offensive fouls and can play more minutes.
by #12Pick...who? on Dec 20, 2011 10:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's crazy
That Dallas hasn’t signed Dalembert. Maybe it’s a cap/tax issue. I haven’t paid close enough attention. But if you lose Chandler, Dalembert has to be one of the closest players in the league to replace him.
Ultimately, I think the Kings (at this point) are a lot better off with Dalembert than without him.
I think they used Sammys money on Odom
If they offer Odom for Sammy, then everyone should win, but early interview’s make me think that Dallas passed on Sammy in order to get Odom.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Dallas only has a trade exception to use
19 mil I think with Chandler leaving. I think only 9 mil of that went with the Odom trade. There was talk of a S&T with Dallas for Dalembert, but I think that fell through.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 20, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Dallas can't sign him
They are over the salary cap. Same goes for a number of other teams.
by Mad Hops on Dec 20, 2011 11:09 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Used Sammy money on Odom
and going with Haywood
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
"You can do this, Haywood."
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 20, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe it's because I'm an AK-47 fan, but
I think with the loss of Chuck, we should up our AK-47 offer to $30 million over 3 years. If he still balks, then move to Sammy for a 1 year and re-evaluate next year.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 11:03 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
+1
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 20, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Sammy ain't want a one year contract.
If he’d do a one year deal, then he’d be under contract right now to the Mavericks, us or another team. Dallas isn’t giving multi-year deal to anyone with the hopes of being under the cap next season to do a free agency splurge.
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
that was at the beginning of free agency
now that the money is all dried up, it might be a different story
huh? wha?
Exactly,
Dali could be the only player to go to china AFTER the lockout ends.
huh? wha?
by effin steve on Dec 20, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
even Bonzi got a 2 year deal
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Your right
The article I saw said “option” and exploring FA again the following season and for some reason I assumed team when it was really a player option.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Well
If the Kings were offering a deal to AK47 with Hayes already on the roster, I think the Kings need to go strong after both Dalembert and AK47. That combo gives the Kings an experienced, long, and defensive-minded set of bigs. Not sure what price tag is needed, but that combo sure takes some of the sting out of the Hayes departure.
by IamPurple on Dec 20, 2011 11:11 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dalembert, Cousins, AK, Thornton and Reke to start.
That sounds good!
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Dec 20, 2011 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
This will absolutely piss some people off and is 100% speculation and indeed unfair; however,
Unlike the Jeff Green situation, no one has indicated whether a medical procedure can fix whatever is wrong with Hayes’ ticker, or whether what is wrong is a serious, life-threatening issue or just a bug the Sacramento Kings determined to be too big a risk for their commitment
I personally do have a suspicion this is “just a bug the Sacramento Kings determined is too big a risk for their commitment.”
Maybe, but with Chuck's tweet about 'trying to get healthy' - I think not.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 20, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Dalembert averaged 7.1 FGA's last season in a contract year.
And, 4.4 of those were inside 9 ft. His shot wasn’t pretty but it’s exactly the type of shots that you want your center to take.
Now it was his worst shooting percentage in the last 5 years, but some of that was because he was asked to distribute from the high post in PW’s offensive scheme. And, when your guard gives up the ball to a big with time running out, and no one is moving to get open, what’s a big to do. He’s going to take the shot before the clock expires.
Dalembert averaged 7 FGA’s over the last 5 seasons, so I don’t know why his shooting is a problem. We knew or should have known what we were getting when he signed on with the Kings.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Exacty, Sammy didn't know what to do in the high post except shoot
Some of that is Sammy and some of that was / is lack of player movement without the ball.
But if they think he just can’t play high post?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 20, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Im fine with those shots
but he should not be allowed to set up on the block and go for that goofy-ass hook shot of his. Stats can only take you so far and your right a lot of the jumpers were our guards fault, but hed also go one on one early in the clock on the low post and that shit was UGLY
huh? wha?
You've got to take the good with the bad with any player
If you want double digit rebounds and 2 blocks per game, a couple of poor looking shots per game is a reasonable price. And, even though Sam had the worst shooting percentage at the rim last season, he still hit 54% on less then 3 shots per game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
How will Sacramento’s title chances be affected by the loss?
Unfortunately, not in the slightest.
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 20, 2011 11:19 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
I don't know
with Hayes on the team I was 99.9% sure of our title chances, but with his loss that number is going to have to drop to at least 99.5%.
Jimmer's still on the team
so that chance stays at a firm 100%
Where's my pie
by TheFifthMookie on Dec 20, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Hayes simply cannot be replaced
If we were a .500 team with him, we certainly would be below .500 without him. Not quite the setback of losing Reke or DMC, but still a huge loss. He definitely contributed to the win column when he was in Houston.
Is there another big in the league with both his defensive presence and passing ability?
Can we lure Wilson Chandler from Zhejiang Guangsha?
He technically signed in the Chinese League prior to the NBA putting up its “no take-backs” rule
Not until March, unless hes released early. And the Nuggets can match any offer.
by Dub_TC on Dec 20, 2011 11:31 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
Kris Humphies back to Nets
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The Nets are finalizing a one-year deal with Kris Humphries today and expect to have him for final preseason game Wednesday, sources tell Y!
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
You don't say...
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
I definitely won't miss his interviews if he doesn't sign with us
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 20, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
You know how they say some guys have an ugly jump shot?
He just has an ugly.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 20, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
And I thought Buddy was the tallest elf...
rec’d
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
dfg5
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
Dwight is packing his bags this minute, based on this signing.
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 20, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Hey yo...im all Nets baby.
AK 47 has verbally committed to playing for NETS. he is flying in from Soviet Union (russia) next week to finalize the deal.
Yo SAMMY,,,,where u at MAN?
Guess you know more than AK47 agent does
KBergCBS Ken Berger
Getting same info from Kirilenko’s agent, Marc Fleisher. Nothing doing w/ Nets … as of Friday, he hadn’t spoken with GM King in a month.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I still think that is a cover
if the y have an agreed to deal and then do some cap juggling the league won’t allow it. Was that Zp or Howard who spoke on national tv he had agreed to a deal, and the league considered it the same as signed?
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Sammy on 1 year deal = trouble
Then you have an unhappy player that did not get his payday, out to show the league and the Kings he is a better player than the offers received. He’s missed almost all of training camp, and is allegedly chunked up. So don’t expect much the first 10 to 15 games of the season.
So even a 1 year deal @ 5 to 8 million offer is problematic: No leadership, chews up possessions, out of shape, goal tends and bobbles easy passes, potential malcontent. His defense at the basket is nice, but the negatives offset the swats and boards.
AK47 or bust!
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
by bench_blob on Dec 20, 2011 12:03 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree AK-47 all day
I don’t think Sammy would be a problem tho. I would rather have a guy upset at his 1 year contract and try to prove himself for next year rather than a guy who gets his 4 year contract and mopes around like a Kenny Thomas. Plus, Sammy wasn’t much of a leader.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
If he didn't turn into a malcontent while on Westphal's carousel of minutes, I doubt he'd do so over a 1-year contract
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
He was apparently a bit of a malcontent
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 20, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I think part of that was having to come off the bench behind DMC, an unproven 19YO rookie
so in a way, it was kinda justified.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Not necessarily
2009: Ricky Rubio (ok, this doesn’t count)
2008: Kevin Love (started 37 games his rookie season – didn’t become regular starter until game 48)
2007: Jeff Green (started 52 games his rookie season – didn’t become regular starter until game 30)
2006: Shelden Williams (started 31 games his rookie season – actually began the season as a starter)
2005: Raymond Felton (started 54 games his rookie season – didn’t become regular starter until game 25)
2004: Devin Harris (started 19 games his rookie season – although he entered the season as a starter – only started 23 games in his first two seasons)
I don’t necessarily disagree that Cousins should have been starting at the beginning of the year, but I don’t think a player’s particular draft slot makes it a hard and fast rule.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 20, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
and Cousins started 62
thats not far off. And why doesnt rubio count, this will be his rookie year, how many starts will he get?
huh? wha?
by effin steve on Dec 20, 2011 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
I listed him because he was the #5 pick
My point being that it’s not the slam dunk you implied it to be.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
it seems you proved my point
as cousins had a few more than those guys listed but not substantially more. And Rubio will start this year, his rookie year.
huh? wha?
The Possiblity of a Chuck Hayes Return to Sacramento?
Hayes could be done for the season, for his career or another team could decide that with monitoring, perhaps medication and insurance, they can take the risk that the Kings cannot.
We cannot justify or condemn the voided contract of Hayes without the full scope of what precisely is medically wrong with him. That being said, this was “the signing” this off season. In an unknown lockout off-season, where the Kings were poised to have the most cap room of any team, Petrie chased Hayes. Not Chandler, Nene, or Gasol. The team went after and signed Chuck Hayes. They desperately needed defense, passing, rebounding, experience, and leadership. They choose Chuck Hayes. At a time where both Petrie and Westphal are nearing the end of their respected contracts, this is a worse case scenario. They had a game plan and an answer for the question marks leading up to this season and now (since the team again requires defense, passing, rebounding, experience, and leadership) it is clearly back to square one.
My question, after all of the wining and dining that any quality free agent receives, why wouldn’t Petrie offer Hayes a less impressive deal if his health improves? Why must it be another team taking a chance on him. If this really was “the guy”, “the signing”, “the answer to who is next to DMC for the next four years”, then why wouldn’t the Kings be open to a return? Again, this is all hearsay until we find out what is truly wrong with the Chuck Wagon but I’ve been thinking about who the Kings could obtain that could supply defense, passing, rebounding, experience, and leadership and I could only think of one name. Chuck Hayes.
by CrownedPotential on Dec 20, 2011 12:05 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
Let's just wait to see the severity
Of the condition before we speculate on offers that include risk of his health.
by Blue Dog on Dec 20, 2011 12:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I am PRAYING to the Russian Orthodox shine of Holiness
that we upped our offer to Kirilenko and he joins us shortly.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 20, 2011 12:14 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
You know why Andrei is always smiling?
this:
and this:
"ESPN The Magazine reported in 2006 that Masha allows Andrei to have sex with another woman once per year and quoted her: “Male athletes in this country are extremely attractive. They get chased by women. It’s hard to resist. It’s the way men are by nature.”
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 20, 2011 12:21 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Most casual fans I've talked to only know AK-47 because of this
His wife is awsome
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I remember reading that article
And thinking “Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?”
by $KingsElite$ on Dec 21, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry....
This lackluster approach to spending on a quality free agent pisses me off as a fan. The Malloofs are continuing the approach of rebuilding on the cheap. Donte Green and Jason Thompson are done. Cisco = Leadership? I would rather have a quality vet that could show Tyreke how to drop 25 points every night like Mitch Richmond used to. I had high hopes and forgot for a while that I am a Kings fan and the misery it entails.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 12:25 PM PST reply actions
What would you have done?
This FA class was really weak.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 20, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Donte Green and Jason Thompson are done.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Those 23 to 25 year olds just can't hang around the league very long anymore
Players peaks are from 20 to 22.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 20, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
When you are Donte Greene you peak during your first summer league
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
Ah to be a young male athlete being recruited by Arizona State
the Dream
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
Sure that's not Lightspeed University?
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Dec 20, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
asshole
I had zero clue what that was a reference to and of course my dumbass googles it.
DELETE COOKIES; DELETE HISTORY
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
I dare to ask
What could be so bad.
by Lotusprime on Dec 20, 2011 2:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So anyways...
I’ll be in the building (whatever it’s called these days) tonight and hope we sign someone by Friday so they can play Monday! AK-47 can take his time as he is coming all the way from Russia. Just make good moves and I’m happy. GO KINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins
by Noble_Bloodlines on Dec 20, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I'll be there opening night
Hey I’m thrilled the Kings are still here,but come on Jason makes rookie mistakes and still bitches every time he holds his man on D. Donte frequently camps behind the three point line and rarely uses his length. He should be slashing to the basket and helping on interior D. To be honest, I wish players would stay in college because by the time you develop them they are off to greener pastures or they never develop good fundamentals.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
your name is awesome
sac city ftw
by who betta than kanyon? on Dec 20, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Thats my Pops
I’m the lesser but equally annoying offspring.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Don't get me started on the college/ NBADL thing
Apparently almost no one agrees with us.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 20, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Supposedly a two year requirement may still be coming next year.
Though I didn’t hear the last of it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 20, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
Needs to happen
Some ballers get the business, some get lazy and waste teams good draft picks for the sake of potential.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
But some franchises are built around those picks.
The 2 most extreme examples are Lebron (the good) and Kwame Brown (the bad). College doesn’t make you a hard worker. Many college players wasted a team’s pick by being lazy (see Olowokandi).
I think it would be hard to stop a one and done player like Rose from going to the NBA after his first year since he seemed like a sure bet. I’m sure he wouldn’t want to go to 2 years of college and miss out on the NBA riches. Then again, Shaq made his money playing in college so maybe 2 years in college won’t be so bad.
The pros and cons must be weighted and decide if the league wants to accept a few Kwame Browns for the opportunity for Lebron or Rose.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure what would be more painful:
Watching Derrick Rose win a MVP award or try to write a college level paper. I guarantee I ain’t payin 179$ for the latter even with the significant amount of unintentional comedy of a guy with a 6th grade education attempting to write that paper.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So exactly what benefit would that have given Jason Thompson?
I must have missed the memo that 4 years in college made him a bitch flawed 3rd big man off the bench.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
bitchy^
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think these guys are going in the other direction
They don’t want to just raise the age limit, they want to force these guys to play six years in college. :)
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Yeah..
…that’ll sure make a kid react better to the exorbitant ridiculous NBA lifestyle. < / rolls eyes >
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
So wait
Hey I’m thrilled the Kings are still here,but come on Jason makes rookie mistakes and still bitches every time he holds his man on D. Donte frequently camps behind the three point line and rarely uses his length. He should be slashing to the basket and helping on interior D. To be honest, I wish players would stay in college because by the time you develop them they are off to greener pastures or they never develop good fundamentals.
You are using Jason Thompson’s rookie mistakes as an example when you talk about your wish that players stay in college? Really? Jason Thompson? Think really hard about this one for at least 2 seconds? He’s your example that you use to lament the fact that players leave college too early and don’t learn the fundamentals until they are on to greener pastures or they never develop them? Really? Again, Jason Thompson? As in he makes too many rookie mistakes and that guys should stay in college and he is your example? Seriously? Really? No, seriously?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
I have to read your comment again because there is no way possible that you could have written what I thought you wrote
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
i guess if you combine Thompson and Greene you get a sophmore in his second semester
so i guess that’s something
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
NBA players shouldn't be allowed to enter the draft until they've completed their Masters
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 20, 2011 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Heh
I believe that Kwame Brown has now had contracts that total something like $51m, yet there are those that maintain that he made a mistake by skipping college. I wish that I had made a mistake like that when I was 18.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Jealousy do be a bitch.
Yessah, it do be.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 20, 2011 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's a snarky comment...
But I know good basketball, if they don’t step up this year they will both be out of the league in 5 years. I want a contender in Sacramento its put up or shut up time for Sacramento. There’s always next year?
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
If you're expecting a contender in Sacramento this year
I’m afraid you’re gonna be really disappointed.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 20, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Oh that's right.
Because the NBA was so much better in the 80’s when only Seniors were the great players. Well, except for Magic Johnson (left after his sophomore year), Isiah Thomas (sophomore), James Worthy (Junior), Michael Jordan (Junior), Akeem Olajuwon (Junior) to name a few. There were Seniors like Patrick Ewing and David Robinson who went on to have great careers. Of course, Robinson had to wait 2 years AFTER his collegiate eligibility because of that whole Naval Academy thing. So he was like a super duper smart dude and clearly those 6 years made him a thinking machine or something. Also a great NBA player but I’m not sure where the actual connection comes in so I’ll have to figure out that later. But I’m sure there is a connection because being a Senior makes you a great NBA player! (Well except for Jason Thompson because he insists on being an individual! The nerve!)
But yes, once upon a time there was a time when there was only a reserve clause and no such thing as the Oscar Robertson lawsuit demanding that players have some level of freedom when choosing whether they play in the NBA. (Or in reality to leave it up to collective bargaining.) So only Seniors could enter the NBA because that’s just how the way it shoulda been. Those damn good ole’ days: They just keep eluding us!
Speaking of the good ole’ days, I want a piece of Walter Camp’s slush fund. That done did sure sound lucrative. Well except for the whole getting killed while playing football thing. But what’s a downer when we can just have a kegger like all the other kids!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fair Point
I’ve never argued the extra years of college were good for the players. The extra years of college were good for the NBA so they don’t end up paying a Kwame Brown $51 million.
by bignerd on Dec 20, 2011 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why should I care about that?
If teams can’t figure out which players to draft and which players they shouldn’t why should others pay for those mistakes?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well ...
Its not a rule against you or a rule even meant to appeal to you. Its rule for 30 front offices to help aid their incompetency of having to project 18 yr Seniors to an NBA career. Its their rule and they seem to like it.
The other economic argument I always make and is always ignored is 18 yr Seniors doesn’t bring any business to the table. A 19 or 20 year kid who has gained at least one or two years of college exposure is likely to have some kind of following or fan base an NBA team immediately begin to market and sell. Which is how the fan hype and intrigue towards showcasing the draft began.
by bignerd on Dec 20, 2011 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
and would be surprised if they end up extending it to two years and very very stunned if they extend it to three. It’s a great bargaining chip for them every single CBA negotation, something they can let the union claim as a win that it did not get pushed to two years yet at the same time accomplishes already what they really want.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 20, 2011 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
Of course it's about money nerd.
Even David Stern says that. There is no other reason to delay a kid coming into the NBA otherwise. It surely isn’t because the kid will be more “prepared” to play in the NBA by staying 4 years.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Just my guess
But I’d posit they’ve been as successful drafting 18 year-olds straight out of high school as they have college players in general.
Everything you described above doesn’t mean the rules need to be changed. I think it’s a great example of risk/reward. If you don’t have as much data or body of work as you’d like on a player, then you are taking a risk in selecting him high in the draft.
Any age rule is intended to remove risk – thus neutralizing GMs who might be better talent evaluators or bigger risk takers.
The other economic argument I always make and is always ignored is 18 yr Seniors doesn’t bring any business to the table.
Well, except for the most popular player in the league currently, right?
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Which one?
Since there is more than one to choose from
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 21, 2011 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
I actually think the one-and-done rule is perfect.
based solely for the fact that NBA agents and scouts should not be allowed to scout high school teams for players.
One year in college is enough to find out if a player has enough talent to succeed in this league. They still need the proper coaching to develop the right maturity/game/work ethic to take their talents to the next level.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 21, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Masters?
They only should enter the pro’s unless they are Rhodes Scholars or Alumnus Meritus from Harvard. Maybe even have PhD in tomfoolery while they are at it. What the hell is wrong with you man? Don’t you have these young black ignorant souls best interests at heart?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm no Maloof defender but what more could have done?
They made Jamal Crawford an offer, he didn’t take it. They made AK47 an offer, he didn’t take it. They weren’t getting Gasol or Nene without vastly overpaying them. The Kings put in the effort but in the end you can’t put a gun to these guys heads and force them to accept the offer.
by deadenddude on Dec 20, 2011 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Is what it is
Never has it been easy being a Kings fan. All I really want is to see ballers that are hungry. My hopes are on Cousins and his development. The organization, in my opinion, is in a holding pattern. Sacramento deserves good basketball. We are a basketball town and need proper representation. Thats why we cheer for B-Jax, Brockman, Barry, Wallace and the Pollards of the world. We likes our hustle players.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
This is why Brockman is one of my favorite Kings of the past few years
Even if his Sacramento career was short. After that 35 point comback against the Bulls, Brockman became a legend among bench warmers in my opinion.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly, and they expressed interest in Tyson Chandler.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
They expressed interest in me renewing my season tickets
That didn’t work out for them, either.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Section 214
The Malloofs did you wrong and did wrong to many other loyal fans whom supported their product when they tried to sneak out of town scorching the Earth behind them. That didn’t work out well for them either.
by John Takanikos on Dec 20, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
My comment was a bit cheeky,
but the point is that regardless of their “efforts,” as of this moment the magical off season that we’ve all been waiting for looks like this:
Gone: Dalembert, Udrih, Casspi
Added: Hickson, Salmons, Outlaw (not counting the draft picks since they were coming regardless)
Not exactly an offseason for the ages, which speaks to your original point.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
To add to this magical offseason we were promised,
I’m personally not happy on the ticket prices and packages for the early part of the season. I can understand spiking the prices for the first individual game, but I thought the packages were way overpriced compared to last year’s ticket prices. Plus, they make you buy that crappy Hornets game at a higher price than the individual tickets will probably go for.
While the Maloofs are atleast trying to appear active, I am not even close to forgiving them for last year (the past few years at that). That said, I will always root for my Sacramento Kings no matter who the owner is.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Were you one of the STHs they personally called?
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
Yep,
especially after they became aware via StR that I was not renewing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Nice.
That was one of my favorite STR posts.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
If there is any chance AK
can play with the Nets and Dwight Howard and for Russian owner, he is going to hold out for this possibility. I feel like that is the reason we have not seen any movement on the Kings open offer, if it has not already been refused. There is a quote floating around that AK47 will return to the states with intention to win title, not just to come back to the NBA. So that puts damper on Kings chances.
But the reason for hope is this: If the Nets/Magic deal goes down, it seems fairly assured that the Nets would have to take the contract of Brother Hedo. Hedo has two years left on his deal at $11 and $12 million, $23 million total. If the Nets take this contract, they can’t pay Deron WIlliams, D12 and AK47 the money they are asking.
AK47 is last on this list of priorities, and may be excluded altogether, at which point he would accept the Kings offer.
Ultimately the Nets have to do some creative deal-making to clear space, be willing to go heavily into luxury tax threshold (a possibility), or Petrie does better sales job to AK47 and whatever that entails, increase in guaranteed money or promise of minutes, before we see resolution one way or the other.
Given circumstances, the years of persistent losing, the unfortunate, shocking news regarding Chuckwagon, tenuous status of head coach, the relocation possibility and the Maloofs seeming willingness to shell out dollars, I would not be surprised to see Kings make a new HUGE offer to Kirilenko he cannot refuse.
Having said that, look for the Kings to sign Leon Powe to a multi-year deal.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
Leon Powe to a multi-year deal?
Don’t give Petrie any ideas. Knowing the Kings, he would probably get offered Chucks contract. Yuck!
by SharkKings49 on Dec 20, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
We are lucky Kwame Brown is already taken
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2011 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Amick says Nets are going to sign Humphries for $8 million.
I know. Kim’s ears just pricked up. This might put us in the driver’s seat now for AK47? Don’t know how much room the Nets had, if any.
by Scott Section 213 on Dec 20, 2011 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
I would think the Nets want to preserve some room to take back bad Magic contracts right?
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
From what I've read Kirilenko's agent
has said that NJ hasn’t made any recent contact. It could be that AK47 and Prokerov slammed back a couple bottles of Russia’s finest vodka and have what passes for a handshake agreement there.
I would prefer Andre but again the price for with Sammy or Andre appears to be something like $9-10to mil for 3 years. From what I’ve read, Sammy is way out of shape which I don’t know means he’s in the same shape he reported to camp last season or whether he is sporting multiple chins which would put Ray Ratio’s to shame.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
by Bluejohn on Dec 20, 2011 1:05 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Make it happen Geoff
Time for Petrie to earn his keep and swing a trade to fill this role.
by gregory l on Dec 20, 2011 1:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sammy has no offense?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
I continue to see some crazy talk about Sammy having no defense in the media, messageboards, etc.. Just one random example…
“It’s also a big offensive downgrade; all that Dalembert can do well on offense is rebound. Unfortunately, he believes that he can do much more. That takes precious possessions off the board, and I imagine that it (along with cost) is one of the major reasons the Kings and Dalembert don’t already have a deal.”
Did anyone making these kinds of comments even watch Dalembert play last season?!? If people paid attention to the second half of the season when Dalembert was healthy (and got minutes), he was not only an amazing defender, an extremely effective offensive player as well considering he did not have plays run for him offensively. He did not take precious possessions off the board, in fact many of his shots were ones that came to him while wide open via a pass or and offensive board, or a shot he converted as the Kings’ stagnant offense forced him to take some last second shot if the ball was in his hands. He has a smooth midrange shot that people don’t give him credit for. I don’t think you could ask for much more from an NBA center not named Dwight or Gasol when offensive plays are not run for him. Last season he had point totals of 27, 26, 21, 20, 18, 18, 18, 18, 17, and multiple games of 16 points. He was doing this WITHOUT taking possessions away from Tyreke, Marcus, etc. His season avergaes would have been much higher if he had started and been healthy the whole season. He fits perfectly into this team that has lots of players that are going to require a lot of shots.
i actually did see a lot of plays where
he took ill advised shots like he was Akeem the Dream. He thinks he can bring more to the table offensively than his ability. Just because its a good look doesnt mean u take it. Daly should only shoot layups and dunks. Thats it. And low key, Dalembert is a scrub and not good enough to win long term with so i’m not sure why Kings fans r so high on this guy when clearly the market is telling us he’s not that good of a player.
Many of those plays you saw were often last second shots he had to throw up because the shot clock was about to go up because Tyreke or someone dribbled the ball too much. I think a lot of these other teams look at the mediocre season stats of 8.1 points per game and don’t think much of it. If you average out his points per game from Feb 9- the end of the season it was at 11.58. Really good for a center who gets no offensive plays run through him. And if you take out the 4 games where coach played him less than 20 minutes, that average goes up to 12.8. per game. Again, not bad at all for a center with no offensive plays. Compare that to one of the most sought after free agents last year… Tyson Chandler who averaged 10.1 points per game. I’d take Dalembert at his likely salary over Tyson Chandler and the contract he got any day.
I don't think you can take Humphries
Regardless of the Nets reportedly re-siging him, unless he agrees to change the spelling of his name from ‘Kris’ to ‘Chris’. We have to have some standards here.
Maybe the spelling "Kris" is the reason why Kim thought he would fit into the family
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Would I be ridiculed for throwing out...
Joel Pryzbilla?
by SoCal Diplomat on Dec 20, 2011 3:50 PM PST via mobile reply actions
This might be the only team that Pryz could join
and raise the overall free throw percentage.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
You can throw him out, just don't bring him in
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 20, 2011 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
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