Kings 79, Blazers 101: Growing Pains
by Aykis16 on Dec 27, 2011 9:34 PM PST
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This is a young team, and one that is still trying to figure out its identity. As Tom mentioned earlier today, the Kings are playing mostly new players, and this lack of cohesion and chemistry was especially evident tonight. The effort was there, but when a more experienced Blazers team stepped up their game in the middle of the 2nd quarter, the Kings had trouble responding.
The game started out well enough, with the team playing the same solid defense as yesterday and moving the ball well on offense. For most of the first half, the Kings were in control, with a lot of help from our big men. Cousins and Hickson were doing some good work inside, and Hayes was limiting Aldridge's offense and cleaning up on the glass. Jason Thompson came in during the 2nd quarter and also had a great contribution, and his jumper looked smooth.
Our guards had a tough time getting anything going though, and while the Blazers defense had a lot to do with it, we just weren't hitting our shots despite getting some good looks. That happens some nights, but the solution is just to keep moving the ball and getting the good shots. The Kings didn't do it however, and fell into the trap of taking increasingly desperate attempts or making bad decisions in order to get something, anything going. Obviously this was counter-productive, and the Blazers capitalized.
We're not going to win many nights when our two best players (Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans) combine for just 18 points on 23 shots, and commit 7 turnovers. We're not going to win too many nights when our two best defenders in Chuck Hayes and John Salmons are plagued with foul trouble all night. We're not going to win many nights when we have yet another stinker at the line. We're not going to win many nights going only 3-16 from three, or shooting less than 40% in the game. We're not going to win many nights when we only have 11 assists to 18 turnovers. We're not going to win many nights playing like this.
All credit to the Blazers, and especially their defense, which was incredible. Gerald Wallace and LaMarcus Aldridge both played like All-Stars, and the Blazers got good contributions from every one on the floor.
The Kings are taking baby steps towards respectability, and there will inevitably be nights like this. We just need to learn from it and move on.
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We needed to slow down the offense and more instead of driving to the lane every play or shooting contested jumpers
by 2002HauntsME4ever on Dec 27, 2011 9:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Any mention
of why Donte or Francisco didn’t play?
Because they're not very good.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 27, 2011 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
Neither were any of our other players today.
by luckthefakers on Dec 27, 2011 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
And yet...
they are still better than Garcia and Donte
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 27, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Also
You have to think that these are the guys who we’re going to be playing all year. We have had very little practice time and a short training camp. I think it was worth having them out there to play with each other, even just for practice.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 27, 2011 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The only one I said to myself that I wanted in
Was Garcia after the start of the 4th when Salmons was in foul trouble. I figured Garcia could play some solid d. on Wallace to give enough time that Salmons probably doesn’t get his 6th foul. However, our offense had other goals tonight and it made all of it pretty irrelevant
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 27, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
Is it really worth it
if they are just practicing hogging the ball, and looking for there own shots?
Donte is pretty good
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
For a basketball player
he is one of the best in the entire world. For an NBA player, he’s not.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 28, 2011 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Sorry but...
I have always felt that even though Greene has been inconsistent at times, Westphal’s usage of him has been horrible and he hasn’t given Greene a real chance. I’ve seen Greene go out on the floor and do very solid and then end up on the bench. Doesn’t make sense. I just think Greene is in Westphal’s dogghouse permanently. Not saying I wanna see him playing 30 minutes a game. Just saying, Westphal’s usage of him is crap.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I'm trying to figure out what Greene is owed here
Don’t get me wrong, I love Donté as a personality. But after showing a little promise under Westphal(!) two years ago, he squandered his chance last year by not coming into camp in the kind of shape that the Kings desired. And he has never shown enough consistency in his play to merit serious burn. In fact, he has been so inconsistent that the Kings have gone out and obtained John Salmons and Travis Outlaw.
Greene has had his chances here in Sacramento, but he has never cashed them in. What the Kings need is Garcia’s heart and work ethic in Greene’s body – that would be a basketball player.
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by section214 on Dec 28, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
If only PW could guess that 1 game every 20 where Donte is amazing...
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
had his chances
Ive always wanted Donte to be successful in this league, but I just dont think he has the work ethics. I think he needs to stop kicking it at the club everyday and start hanging out in the gym. I see him at the club almost every other night. Hope he steps it up.
Yea I agree with that
Stop going to wack ass clubs. Focus on being the best basketball player and stop going out. But I still think Westphal hasn’t been fair with Greene. You can’t use a guy inconsistently and then put him in and expect him to give you greatness 24/7. And when you do put him in and he plays solid, leave him in!! He’s feelin it!! For example, last years home game against Boston, Donte was playing great in the 1st half. 2nd half comes, he doesn’t even play. That’s just one example & it makes no sense at all. And if anyone wants to talk inconsistency, then there’s a couple other young guys on this team who happen to start that are just as inconsistent at times. My point is, you gotta put a guy with Greene’s talent on the floor and let him play. Sitting him on the bench does nothing. And I hate to put Greene & Gerald Wallace in the same sentence, but, everyone used to say Wallace wasn’t good enough and was inconsistent, couldn’t do this or that, & Adelman usually let him waste away on the bench all those years ago. Then Petrie decides to just let Charlotte have a crack at him in the expansion draft, they take him 1st pick, and right away he plays solid for them and has turned into one of the leagues best small forwards. Always seems like the Kings misshandle a young talent and let’s that player go somewhere else and blossom, and it looks as though they might be doing the same with Donte. I do agree that he needs to play better consistently tho. I just wanna see it happen on the Kings and not for someone else.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
No one is as inconsistent as Greene
We all know Westphal hasn’t been fair, but he has given Donte plenty of chances to prove himself and Donte can’t consistently get it done, case and point. Besides that situaution with Wallace was with a veteran championship contending team, who else would you have left unprotected? Hedo? Pollard? Bibby? Jackson? Wallace was the only one they had to let go of.
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by raiderking21 on Dec 28, 2011 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Ummmm
I believe the Kings protected Brent Price & Laurence Funderburke over Gerald Wallace if memory serves me correct.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Brent Price wasn’t even on the roster in 2004. Lawrence Funderburke wasn’t even on the roster in 2004 either.
Here is the 2003-04 roster that would have to be protected.
The problem was that the Kings couldn’t protect Gerald due to rules of how the expansion draft worked. Here’s a post from KingsFans that I’ve found useful in explaining this (I didn’t realize the Kings couldn’t protect Gerald—I always just thought they didn’t really feel the need to keep him)
I’ve explained this many many times. I can do it quick and dirty now:
Expansion rules were:
a) can protect UP TO 8 players on your roster (but not free agents — have to be under contract for next season)
b) BUT have to expose at least 1 player
so if you had 12 guys under contract, you could only protect 8. And if you had LESS than 8 guys under contract, you still had to leave 1 player unprotected. Every team always had to leave 1.
Our problem was that we screwed up on Peeler’s contact, and so did not have anybody we considered expendable to offer up. But we still had to offer up 1 player regardless, so we chose Gerald.
we had these players under contract:
Bibby
Christie
Peja
Webber
Vlade
Bobby
Miller
Gerald
But rule b) said that we always had to expose 1. That was how we lost Gerald. If Peeler had also been under contract and not a free agent, we could have exposed him instead.
One could point out that exposing Webber might have been the way to go here, and I would say that’s true if you wanted to keep Gerald Wallace. But, the Kings knew that keeping Gerald at that point was pointless. If you can’t recognize that Gerald Wallace grew as a player in Charlotte on some very bad teams, well, I don’t know what to tell you. But that’s the truth of the matter whether you like it or not.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2011 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly
When will this die? It was a no brainer. There was no way anyone with half a brain would have protected Wallace. Hindsight makes people crazy.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 29, 2011 1:39 AM PST up reply actions
It won't die because people want to believe G-Dub was mismanaged by Petrie and Adelman.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nice memory thread about G-Dub though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's because he was
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
And you are still wrong.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't see how
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Where would you have given Wallace minutes?
He was too small to play PF at the time, and he was behind Peja at small forward. Also, the SF position was primarily a wing position offensively for that team, and Wallace’s range at the time was about 2 feet and in.
Wallace would have had a better chance on the more recent Kings teams, the young teams in search of talent. But back then, he was a young, raw, unpolished non-contributor on a team competing for a world championship.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
It's not about giving him minutes at that time
It’s about keeping him & continuing to develop him. You don’t get rid of players with that kind of talent. If you do, they go on to become stars elsewhere. And honestly, I woulda kept Wallace over everyone back then except Webber. It was obvious to me that Wallace was going to become what he is today, and has been for the last 5 years. But that’s just me. People can think what they want. But I do agree with what you said in your 2nd paragraph. I just feel it was retarded to let him get away. I woulda got rid of Christie or Bibby before I let Wallace get snatched up by someone else. And what do ya know, we later get rid of Christie & Bibby for essentially nothing, except cap space I guess. Cap space that woulda been well spent on guys like Gerald Wallace & Hedo Turkoglu if we had kept them. Sacramento needs to learn that you don’t trade away young stars. You count your blessings you were lucky enough to draft them in the 1st place. Why?? Because Sac can’t attract players of their caliber in free agency, nor in trades. I’m pretty sure that because of the mistakes Petrie made back then, he is being way more cautious about trading away the young guys we have now. For that, I applaud him… for now.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I'm pretty sure Section's point was
there was no way he would have blossomed in Sac the way he did in Charlotte. No way.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
and no way anybody moves Bibby for him
doesn’t matter if years later Bibby was moved for salary reasons, only a crazy person taking crazy pills would have been fine with leaving Bibby open to getting picked up by Charlotte at that time.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
I hated Mike Bibby by that time...
..and there was no way I would have considered keeping Wallace over Bibby.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The decision seemed to be a no-brainer at the time
But it could easily be argued that it was the wrong decision (in hindsight of course).
So anyone who, at the time, felt that Wallace was going to turn into the player he has probably had more than “half a brain”.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Yeah, I remember it pretty clearly
It was extremely disappointing to lose Wallace, but it was a numbers game.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
And I hate to put Greene & Gerald Wallace in the same sentence, but, everyone used to say Wallace wasn’t good enough and was inconsistent, couldn’t do this or that, & Adelman usually let him waste away on the bench all those years ago.
I understand you are in no way comparing their talent but you are comparing the way they were treated in regards to playing time. Wallace played only 1338 minutes in three years here. Donte played 3,482. And I have to tell you, there were more flashes in Wallace’s time here than Donte.
Always seems like the Kings misshandle a young talent and let’s that player go somewhere else and blossom, and it looks as though they might be doing the same with Donte.
Since it always seems like the Kings misshandle a young talent that blossoms elsewhere, can you give us at a few other examples given they always do it.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
Spencer Hawes
He was the starting center for a playoff team you know
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 28, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'll name a few for you Wally
Hedo Turkoglu
Corliss Williamson
Maurice Evans
Matt Barnes
Eddie House
I could name Jason Williams even tho we got Bibby in return. I’m not sure how people feel about either guy in terms of who people would rather have. I loved both while they were Kings, still love J-Will to this day. I’ll stop naming names for now even tho I could easily name a few more.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Okay, you’re gonna not like this list but oh well.
Hedo Turkoglu was part of the sign and trade for Brad Miller. Corliss Williamson was traded for Doug Christie. Maurice Evans was a role player. Role players are replacable. Matt Barnes was part of the Sixers trade with Chris Webber. You may or may not disagree with that trade but that was why Barnes left the Kings.
In otherwords, you really don’t know all the circumstances you are talking about. Therefore, your point is pointless in context which is what really matters here.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ummm
Actually I already knew everything you just told me, & every one of those trades were stupid, except the Christie trade. Brad Miller has always been wack. I still don’t get why Kings fans love the guy. I’d take Hedo over him any day, any year. Webber should have retired a King, but the Kings don’t know how to keep an identity and keep respect. That was possibly the worst trade the Kings have ever made. And don’t start with talking about Webber’s contract. He earned every penny and shouldn’t have been traded away. The trade in no way made us better. Also, you say that Role Players are replacable, & that’s not always the case. Some role players are much better than others. Some role players happen to be irreplacable. Bottom line is the Kings history of bad trades & bad ownership is the reason this team gets no respect around the league. Please don’t try to educate me on Kings history and moves they have made. I know all of them and have followed the Kings every move since the early 90’s. I know “all the circumstances” I am talking about. Thanks. Bottom line is the Kings have made plenty of terrible moves throughout the years. I’m shocked they havn’t screwed up and traded away our current young gems yet. It doesn’t help when I turn on Napear’s show and I hear callers talking about trading Evans & Cousins. Absolutely ridiculous.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Selective memory
At the time of the Miller for Hedo/Pollard trade, Miller was set to be the heir apparent to Vlade. And he would have excelled next to Webber. But then Webber got hurt and Miller’s role changed completely. But even with that, Miller was still the best center statistically that the Kings have ever had. Vlade was better when you plug in the intangibles, but Miller was very good, and much better than either/both of the guys that we traded away.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hate to point this out..
…but Miller was acquired after Webber’s knee surgery. Or at least after he was hurt in the Dallas series.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think that it's safe to say that no one was aware
that Webber was not going to recover when the Kings acquired Miller. At the very least, there was a strong hope for his recovery, or the Kings would have exposed Webber to the expansion draft.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The expansion draft was in '04.
I think it was pretty obvious that they knew where Webber would be by draft time ’04.
I’ve said this before, but keeping Wallace was possible. For whatever reason, the sense was that Wallace wouldn’t tap his potential here. And, for whatever it’s worth (little admittedly), I don’t see how Gerald Wallace would have tapped his potential wanting out the entire time he was doing out.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I recall conjecture as to whether or not the Kings would dangle Webber out there, but in the end they decided not to, as they were not completely convinced that he would not largely recover. As Divac had an expiring contract (still in play for the expansion draft but gone by training camp), the Kings retained Webber and pulled the trigger on the Miller trade, with the hope that Miller would plug into Vlade’s spot.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
No Divac wasn't in the expansion draft.
Free Agents weren’t part of the draft because they were Free Agents.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Then why did you list him?
The expansion draft was held in June 22 2004, and Vlade’s contract expired June 30, 2004.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The chronology
Webber is hurt in the 2003 playoffs.
Off season 2003 Miller is obtained for Hedo and Pollard. Miller starts 53 games, side by side with Vlade. He goes to the bench when Webber returns late in the season.
June 24, 2004 is when the expansion draft is held, with Divac being one of the held players.
July 1, 2004 is when Vlade becomes a free agent. Perhaps there was an expansion rule that expiring contracts had to be counted and held in the expansion draft, I can’t recall.
Webber and Miller play 46 games together in 2004-05 before Webber is ultimately dealt. Miller suffers a season ending injury about 10 games later, but does return for the playoffs.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I never brought up Divac because he was a FA...
..and wasn’t a part of that expansion draft at all. FA’s weren’t eligible for the expansion draft any way you slice it.
I’m just not really sure where our source of disagreement here is other than Divac wasn’t in the expansion draft and that leaving Webber unprotected was a guarantee the Kings could have held onto Gerald Wallace.
But the chronology is not the issue here. I remember that chronology well. (I don’t think chronology should be a source of contention here either.) I also think, and this is my opinion now, that Miller was brought in part to play alongside Divac when the Kings realized that Webber’s knee injury was so serious. Vlade just slowed drastically down during the 03-04 season and there was 4 years left of Webber’s contract at 80 million (or whatever the exact number was) to consider. Which meant the Kings were screwed, but I suspect we know that anyway.
This conversation has become rather muddled.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh yes...
..I just wanted ppl to know where the info was from. I truthfully had forgotten all the details of the whole schebangy thing.
As far as Divac, I cut that part out of the post from Bricklayer. He mentioned it as well, but I didn’t want to take the whole blurb as I want to keep this as simple as possible. I aimed for the wrong thing this time around. My bad.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not to mention
He became an all-star in 04-05 (?) can’t remember. So I’m not sure what his definition of good is.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
How about overrated!!
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
It was 03-04
Miller also made the AS team in 02-03.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeap.
Thanks
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
No problem.
Your point was sound. Just wanted to illustrate why is all. :)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Stupid trade
Hedo was ballin for us. Kings shoulda built the future around Hedo & Gerald. Never woulda had to trade Peja either.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Hedo huh?
How’s he doing?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wiggity wiggity wiggity wack yo.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He did start for a team in the finals back in 09
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
So has Mario Chalmers
Hedo and Brad could have had quite the discussion about this at the all star game…had Hedo ever made an all star team.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 29, 2011 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As a fellow Brad Miller hater and someone lucky enough to see Hedo's first dunk (which was awesome) at Golden State
that contract to Brad Miller was nuts even at the time but unless the team really expected Pollard to all of a sudden get healthy, it was a bit necessary.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Chalmers happens to be a really good
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
And we're done here
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by section214 on Dec 29, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
So Chalmers isn't good?? Really??
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Chalmers
His effective rate placed him between Earl Watson and Sebastian Telfair last year – 54th overall among point guards, behind such luminaries as Pooh Jeter.
He’s better than you and he’s better than me, but he’s not better than most NBA point guards. By NBA standards, Chalmers is not “really good.”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
He's clutch and plays team ball
And I’m pretty sure you would take Chalmers over Watson & Telfair
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
8 pts., 4 asts., 41% lifetime shooter
I wouldn’t take any of them over any of our current guards. Asking whether you’d rather have Telfair, Chalmers, or Watson is like asking whether you’d rather have lice, halitosis, or paiful rectal itch.
The guy is so “good” that the Heat brought in a broken ass Mike Bibby last year to vulture his minutes.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 29, 2011 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I never said I'd take Chalmers over our current guards
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
So you're basing how they are
on their clutch and teamwork?
Really?
Let me give you a name that rings a bell when you say 4th quarter:
Lebron James.
Teamwork?
05-06 Kobe Bryant.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
So Chalmers isn't good?? Really??
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Derek Fisher did too
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Brad Miller
Could set a proper screen, facilitate the offense and hit an open jumper. His contributions didn’t always translate in per game stats, but the offense always ran smoother with him on the court than off.
Surprised you didn’t know that, being a basketball super-expert and all.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Wait, I'm supposed to be upset about anyone on that list other than MAYBE Hedo?
No disrespect intended to the rest, but those are journeymen players.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
How on Earth did the Kings mismanage any of those guys?
Hedo was not only a consistent role player for the Kings but we moved him for Brad Miller, the guy who was supposed to replace Divac and who happened to fit the system perfectly.
Corliss kicked some serious ass for the Kings and only got less minutes when Peja blew up and we moved him for Doug Christie who we kind of needed given the whole Nick Anderson experiment.
Neither of those guys was mishandled and we got great players in return for them.
Maurice Evans? The guy was out of the league for years. If anyone mishandled him it was the Wolves, the Kings were the ones who gave him a chance. And he’s just a journeyman. ANd considering we traded Bobby for Bonzi the next offseason and went with Ronnie Price, another young journeyman with potential, who cares if he did not resign?
Eddie House? We claimed the guy off of waivers after two teams released him in the same year. And we played him consistently. No clue how we mismanaged him. And he’s a journeyman.
Matt Barnes? The guy the Cavs cut in his first camp? The guy who couldn’t make a roster until the following year? The guy who when he went to the Kings he got consistent burn and was a fan favorite? Really? We mishandled that guy?
I’ll stop naming names for now even tho I could easily name a few more.
No by all means keep going if this list is as exhaustive as you claim it is.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
Ninja
got
owned.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 29, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Let's not go there casey
Look I strongly disagree with him on this but that doesn’t mean this has to go back to junior high. My goal wasn’t to try and embarrass him. To be honest, I only asked the last question because I was hoping to curb this kind of rhetoric (in retrospect, I shouldn’t have done it).
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Yea right
Get outta here with that
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
The point is, the Kings made bad decisions regarding all
Brad Miller is weak. I wish he never wore a Kings jersey. Trading Hedo & Pollard for him was one of the worst trades ever!! We didn’t need to trade Corliss for Christie. I love Christie but IMO we coulda just ran Peja @ the 2 on offense with Corliss @ 3. We ended up getting Hedo later anyway. Whatever the case, getting rid of Corlliss made the team way softer, and Corliss later proved to be a valuable piece to winning a championship (Pistons). There was never any need to get rid of Maurice Evans and he played solid for us when he was here, as he does for every team he’s been on. Eddie House shoulda been kept as well. There was no need to let him go. Btw, at this time, people actually liked coming to Sac to play because we were a winner. It’s not like these guys were dying to leave town. As far as Matt Barnes goes, tell me you did not just mention that he was cut by the Cavs as a rookie?? That doesn’t make the Barnes look bad, it makes the Cavs look stupid, as if they need anything else to make them look stupid. And yes, everyone I mentioned was mishandled by the Kings. How?? They weren’t kept, that’s how. They were all young as well, with plenty of time left in their careers. They all happen to still be playing in the league btw, for teams much more respected than the Kings. I seriously can’t believe I get argues with as much as I do on this website. The Kings made stupid moves regarding everyone named. Period. This team has always been mishandled. We as fans were just lucky to enjoy some good years because the Kings got lucky when they traded for Webber, signed Vlade, & drafted Williams & Peja. That’s it. Other than those lucky years which were beautiful to watch (in which the Kings were cheated by the NBA out of a championship), Geoff Petrie has made horrible decisions on who to trade and who to keep. He has also made some really good ones, but the bad ones have been horrible. But oh well, it’s always fun seeing Gerald Wallace destroy the Kings, and then hearing Grant Napear defend the Kings every move.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Error
When I said all are still playing, it slipped my mind that Corliss has been retired for a couple years now.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Wow
When you infer that this team would have been better with Corliss and without Doug Christie…well I’ll give you credit for one thing, and that it that it is a truly original thought. It is one that I cannot find a shred of factual evidence to support, and it is one that no reasonable person would likely agree with, but it certainly is original.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I love Christie
And he’ll forever get my admiration for giving Rick Fox the uppercut and then whoopin that ass in the tunnel. I just think Corliss shoulda been kept. That’s all.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Brad Miller is weak.
Honestly, can you bring some substance as opposed to just throwing out guys are ballers, a player is wack, GTFO, and a player is weak or soft? Seriously, just something tangible once and awhile?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
As far as Matt Barnes goes, tell me you did not just mention that he was cut by the Cavs as a rookie?? That doesn’t make the Barnes look bad, it makes the Cavs look stupid, as if they need anything else to make them look stupid.
Not quite sure how you would get that was my point. It was that we were the team that gave him a great chance to show what he had. Heck the team we traded him to didn’t even play him.
And quite frankly, if you are going to use Maurice, House, and Barnes as your evidence, basically every single mid 20s non-cacausion American player has to be resigned every year.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Not the case
I specifically chose those names. They were good young players to build a competitive team with. So, let me throw a list of names we coulda built around & remained competitive with if we had just been patient:
Gerald Wallace
Hedo Turkoglu
Peja Stojakovic
Matt Barnes
Maurice Evans
Eddie House
Kevin Martin
Damon Jones
And while we coulda had all these guys, or at least some, we coulda also kept Bobby Jackson while doing so, kept Pollard, and Webber coulda continued to play for the Kings & later retire when the time was right. As I stated in a previous post, I hated the Webber trade and felt the team shoulda let him retire as a King when he felt it was time. If things would have been done this way, this team would have remained respectable & attractive for others to come here. We would have had a very competitive team all this time, and we would have found the right pieces to add to the squad via draft & free agency. I hate to beat on things that are so old now, but I’m just going with it since it’s the current topic amongst a few of us on here. And I know I’m relatively new to this website, but I’ve lived in Sac my whole life, been a Kings fan since since, & these have been my opinions the entire time. I’m not just making them up at the moment. But it is what it is. At least we now have Thornton, Cousins, Hickson, & Evans. And yes, those are the pieces to build around on the current team.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Well if you go back to the old threads, trust me I am in full agreement on Kevin Martin
Already talks about most of these guys
But Peja? Really? Think about that one for a few minutes.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
(to be honest, when i asked the initial question I assumed you would mention Kevin Martin)
who I don’t think has blossomed elsewhere but would agree mismanaged. But then again I know a little of what was going on behind the scenes as well.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
sorry
when I say not blossomed I just mean we knew exactly what he was already
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
I thought Martin was legit. Not great, but good. I was totally against trading him when the deal went thru. I wanted to see Evans & Martin gel, but that might not have happened. At least we got Marcus Thornton eventually out of the Martin trade. Idk about you but I’d take Thornton over Martin any day. As far as Peja goes, I think it woulda been good to see him turn into a bench player for us the way Dallas used him last year. Just bring him in for 3’s basically. It woulda been beautiful to see Peja backup Gerald or Hedo. Heck, even if you do trade Peja, just keep Gerald & Hedo. They were so freakin young when we let them go. Hedo was already playing solid for us in the playoffs. Heck, Hedo was already a better all-around player than Peja, aside from shooting 3’s.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
This thing about Peja is utter fantasy land though
everyone and their mother knew he was opting out of his contract for his big payday. It was either the Kings needed to give him a max deal or trade him for someone they could keep longer at a similar salary. Not a Ron Artest fan but that sure seemed to be a fairly decent play there. It was either that or letting Peja walk because everyone knew about his back problems. You really think it would have been better to pay Peja a max deal around 5 or 6 years to ride the bench and be injured? Really?
Heck even with hindsight it’s an awful idea.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you on this one
And I thought the Artest trade was fantastic. At the time, I was actually hoping we might trade Peja for him. I was tired of Peja at the time and I felt his best years were behind him. He really benifitted from playing with Webber & Divac. But imagine Artest with Wallace & Turkoglu. Woulda been nice to see.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Hedo was already playing solid for us in the playoffs. Heck, Hedo was already a better all-around player than Peja, aside from shooting 3’s.
No. Peja was already a better all around player than Hedo, aside from distributing the ball.
Peja had a VASTLY better TS% plus way better better volume scorer (basically better volume and more efficient at the same time).
Peja’s splits between his offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency were much larger.
Hedo was a better distributor but not by much.
And Peja went to two more allstar games the next two years, was in the middle of his prime, and in fact was 4th in MVP voting just the following year.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
You wanted us to build around
Matt Barnes, Eddie House, and Mo Evans?
and
If things would have been done this way, this team would have remained respectable & attractive for others to come here. We would have had a very competitive team all this time, and we would have found the right pieces to add to the squad via draft & free agency
So you want us to be the Hawks? Good team but not good enough to win. What are the playoffs for if not for the gold?
And 1 – how are we going to add good players in the draft if our team would be one and done?
Oh and C-Webb lost a step after that knee injury. We were actually graced that someone took his massive contract. I admit that they took too long to rebuild.
As for Martin, I agree with you.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Explanation
Build around Wallace, Turkoglu, & Martin. Use Evans, Barnes, & House as role players off the bench. We still woulda have Bibby and/or Jackson running the point. You can still add quality players in the draft, even if you’re a playoff team. Not all the good players happen to be picked in the lottery. Plenty of really good players have been picked in the mid to late 1st round, or 2nd round altogether. For example, just look at San Antonio as a team who has picked really good players low in the draft. Even if you don’t keep everyone I’m naming, just freakin keep Gerald Wallace for the future. I myself was really high on him even when he sat our bench. And yes, he shoulda played more back when we were the best team in the league. His shooting wasn’t good yet but everything else he did was good. His promise was evident. Keep Gerald & Hedo. Keep the young guys who were on the team when we were the league’s best. Stick with an identity that is working. Don’t go trade everyone away from the best team this city has ever had. I’d rather be a competitive playoff team with a familiar identity every year rather than go through 5-7 years of building every decade.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
You are asking for the impossible
Keep Gerald & Hedo. Keep the young guys who were on the team when we were the league’s best. Stick with an identity that is working.
Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone saw Gerald had great potential but you are asking the team to keep everyone who was part of the team when we were the league’s best. If you want to keep the guys who were in fact meaingful towards that, you are going to have to let someone like Gerald to be exposed in an expansion draft. Furthermore, wouldn’t want to keep everyone. Hedo for instance really was struggling with his shot selection his last year, we were desperate for a third big because Pollard couldn’t stay healthy, and Bobby couldn’t stay healthy. There were real issues, players don’t stay stagnate in their prime while other players blossom. In real life we don’t get the benefit of treating everything like a video game.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 29, 2011 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
My point is
if you wanna let the vets go (I still say Webber shoulda been kept), then fine. But stick with Gerald & Hedo, your 2 very promising young players who havn’t had an opportunity to have the team built around them. Transition them from being role players on a GREAT Kings team into being the 2 guys you are now going to build around since the old guys are on their way out. They tried to do this with Martin, & there is no reason they couldn’t have done it with all 3 young guys. Build around Wallace, Turkoglu, & Martin. Keep Barnes for the bench. Keep Webber since he’s the greatest King ever and can continue to be a mentor for the young guys. Even if he’s not playing due to injury, it’s still money well spent. He’s Chris Webber, one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game. Keep your identity and let it continue on with the young guns. But don’t leave Gerald Wallace unprotected in favor of keeping Darius Frickin Songaila.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Actually they just got really lucky with having the No. 1 pick and TD as the prize.
San Antonio as a team who has picked really good players low in the draft.
You can argue with Manu and TP but could you please tell me how many Manus’ and Parkers’ are out there?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I agree about Duncan. That was "luck" aka David Stern
But you gotta give them props on Manu & Tony. But you gotta give them credit for so many other solid draft choices. Btw, they picked Dejuan Blair in the 2nd round too, while we picked Casspi before them. Anyway, there are plenty of solid NBA players who earned their respect after getting picked low in the 1st round or falling to the 2nd. Not all the gold is in the lottery. Sometimes that turns out to be fool’s gold.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Wait a minute
David Stern wanted San Antonio to get lucky? Small market San Antonio?
Does-not-compute.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
It does
Stern was taking care of San Antonio, helping to get a legend like David Robinson get the frontcourt help he needed in order to reach the top. Bulls were done as champions and the league needed that next great team aside from what the Lakers had going. San Antonio might be a small-market but it’s by Stern. If anyone thinks the NBA doesn’t influence things, they’re wrong. They do all the time. Kings got cheated back in 02 because of it. It’s the reason they hook up Cleveland with the 1st pick to get LeBron, even tho they threw the season in order to get it. Why does the NBA hook up Cleveland?? Because James is a home product from not too far away in Akron who already has a massive following in-state. Same thing goes for Chicago landing the 1st pick the year the hometown kid Rose is the sure 1st pick. Then the Kings are the worst team and have the best chance of landing the sure superstar Blake Griffin. But you know that ain’t gonna happen. Instead, America’s 2nd biggest market LA gets 1st pick. If the lottery is so honest, then stop having it done behind closed doors. This stuff is pretty obvious folks. It’s all about ratings and marketing, IMO.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I meant to say that S.A. is respected by Stern.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
The nice thing about being paranoid
is that you always think that you are the center of attention.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 29, 2011 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Think, think..Hell we know Stern rigs the league against Sacramento..Why else would Dick (head) Bavetta still ref our games..
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2011 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Donte's had more than his share of chances
At this point in his career, he’s kind of back to square one. Get in great shape, prove in practice that you deserve burn in the games.
I love Donte as a person, but he’s a mediocre (at best) NBA basketball player. It would be a waste for Westphal to give him minutes, especially with a more talented roster at his disposal than in the past.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Just curious
think he needs to stop kicking it at the club everyday and start hanging out in the gym
but what clubs do you see him at everday?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
Why are you always bating people into arguments?
oh, wait that’s me.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hahaha.
Too funny.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I hear Korean ladies love those kind of appendages.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And I just happen to have one
Lucky me.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
Luck is truly serendipitious.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I`m also curious
as to why on a night when nothing seems to be working on either end a guy like JT only gets 14 mins despite shooting 5/6. I´m not even criticizing, I´m sure PW had a reason but my stupid basketballmind doesn´t get it.
Cousins got 27 minutes,
Hayes 26 and Hickson 28. That leaves 15 minutes at the up front position, and JT got 14 of those.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
They are better than Travis Outlaw. I guarantee that much,
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
In spite of your opinion, which could be correct
if the Kings only win 1 more game before the first long road trip, PW will start his perpetual motion rotation again.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It appears that Westphal has settled on a 10 man rotation,
And Greene and Garcia are 11-12. Frankly, I don’t see either of these guys snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
True
but I felt like grasping at straws was an option. Sometimes they can give us a spark.
by luckthefakers on Dec 27, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
I was trying to explain this in the thread
but not very well apparently
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
You did fine
just didn’t see it before I started posting here.
by luckthefakers on Dec 27, 2011 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry I didn't mean that towards you
but I got criticized in the thread for trying to explain it
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
Even in a game like that?
If I was the 10th guy in a season as compressed as this I’d hope to do more than mop up duty.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Reminds me of the DNPs last season
Sam D, Omri and Greene all watched for more that a few games. It goes against the idea of starting season with your experienced players. Obviously PWs approach to coaching will keep us second guessing all season.
I love how Westphal can do nothing right
He has a set rotation, and everyone complains about the guys he didn’t play. He switches the rotation, people say that he should be consistent. Imagine how frustrating that must be.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 27, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 14 recs
yup
I will say though, wasn’t the biggest fan of leaving Jimmer and Isaiah both out there to deal with Crawford and Batum.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
Isaiah on Crawford I didn't mind
Especially since Isaiah knows Crawford and has played against him for years growing up. But Jimmer on Batum was a TERRIBLE matchup for us. Even if Jimmer was an All-Defensive team member, that’s a terrible matchup for us.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Agreed
And that’s when I would’ve liked to see Cisco out there. It’s a shame that he’s an 11th man all of a sudden. I would like to see him get time over Isaiah at the 2.
by SoCal Diplomat on Dec 27, 2011 10:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Would have to think
if Salmons wasn’t in foul trouble, it wouldn’t have played out quite close to how it in fact did.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
You don't have a problem with Thomas on Crawford???
5’9" guarding 6’5"???
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
The guy who went 2 for 11?
Yea, he just DESTROYED Thomas
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 27, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Those two buckets were CLUTCH.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
He did get 4 assists tho
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
My only question
is why they didn’t put Thomas on Aldridge or Wallace. :)
"His D was a difference at the end."
Watching Outlaw out there makes me really start to like Salmons more and more
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
Wow that must be depressing
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
I hope Outlaw improves throughout the season
If not, I’d rather see Greene or Garcia.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 27, 2011 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
personally I am already wanting to see Greene
although not exactly a big deal either way
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
I thought it was interesting Donte never matched up wtih Wallace tonight.
I wonder why Westphal chose to not do that. I’m sure he thought about it and rejected it, but I’d be curious as to why that was nonetheless.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ya Outlaw has been pretty bad
for some reason he seems really nervous. As risky as Donte is and as little as I like Garcia, I think they could both be at least as good as Outlaw has been
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
Outlaw was a -2 in 24 minutes. They actually played more like a team when he was on the floor.
"His D was a difference at the end."
well a one game +/- is a great way of showing how well one guy contributed
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
It tells you a lot about who was and wasn;t effective in that game
We didn’t lose that game because of Travis Outlaw.
"His D was a difference at the end."
He is right that the game wasn't lost because of Outlaw
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 28, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
absolutely
only problem is nobody said it was all lost because of Outlaw
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
well, I do know
that the game was not won because of Travis Outlaw. Just because he was on the floor when others were playing well doesn’t mean he was integral.
by MichaelMack on Dec 28, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
if it weren't for 2 incredibly dumb shots two dumb passes (although got lucky on one of those two not being a turnover at least)
could have been a heck of a lot better than a -2
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
So thats why the went out and bid on Outlaw..To make Salmons more appealing to the fans…
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2011 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Kings need to just get rid of Cisco
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
all of that
team-first, likable professionalism is really hindering the growth of our young players.
him riding the bench as really limited our young guys and their ability to ride the bench
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
exactly.
we should just dump him. I mean really, he is only our best spot up three point shooter, and could help out at three positions if injury strikes. What a waste of roster space.
Wack
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Care to elaborate?
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 28, 2011 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
No
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
"Everyone"
I’m not sure that word means what you think it means.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I reserve the right to be a hypocrite after losses like that
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Can't win
If he goes 12 deep, he can’t settle on a rotation. When he settles on a rotation, he’s wrong for not going deeper. Good grief! We’re talking about Greene and Garcia here, not C-Webb and Peja.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 27, 2011 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 10 recs
I miss Cisco.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
I don't
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
me neither. I see JT's minutes going up and down
like in the first two games depending on how big the other team is, but I don’t see Cisco or Greene seeing any PT unless there is an injury or a blowout. And I think that’s the right call. I’d rather see Honeycutt get some burn before either of those guys.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Honeycutt would have gotten eaten alive against Wallace and Batum
And, with the upcoming games against Chicago (Deng) & NY (Carmelo) both Salmons and Outlaw are going to be tested . In fact the entire front line will be severely tested against those teams.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
No doubt. I wasn't saying we should have played Honeycutt, just that I'd prefer to see him
before Cisco or Greene at this point. And we rightfully didn’t play them either.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 28, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
If we can play Outlaw at the 3 (0 for 4 from 3pt range) than we can play Donte. We’re going to go up against some big SF’s where we could use Donte’s size and quickness defensively.
We’ve gotten very little offense from the SF in 2 games, and if that continues, PW will have no choice to go to his bench. And, frankly, I’d much rather have Donte’s defense and minimal scoring than Garcia’s minimal scoring and lack of defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Not sure that Greene brings anything more than Outlaw at this point.
If outlaw is going to be benched, which I doubt is the case, then giving those minutes to Donté is okay, but would rather give them to Honeycutt depending upon the match-up.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 29, 2011 12:26 AM PST up reply actions
Me too
but he needs to play his way into the lineup at practice, otherwise he has to sit.
I think Outlaw offers much more on D, I think PW thought we had the 3 point shooting covered, if it looks like it did tonite for 3 or 4 games in a row, there may be a Cisco sighting. I expect, however , for us to be a good 3 point shooting team.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Let's hope that Outlaw has shown more in practice then he has in games
I doubt that Outlaw had that much time to prove himself between the time we picked him up on waivers and the first two games. I’m going with the opinion that PW is going with his veterans over players that have failed him in the past, until they prove that they’re no better than what he had. In which case, he’ll start going to his bench again and play the hot hand.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I don't know how long Outlaw's leash will be
But I can’t see him playing like this for too long before we start seeing Cisco get some of those minutes
by MichaelMack on Dec 28, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
There are going to be games where I'd rather see Cisco out there instead of Isaiah,
but I can’t say I miss him…yet.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
Sigh.
"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! There’s still plenty of meat on that bone. Now you take this home, throw it in a pot, add some broth, a potato, baby, you got a stew going!"
"Now say 5 reasons I’m better than you!" "You’re smarter than me." "One." "You can beat me in arm wrestling." "Two." "Uh, you read the paper." "Yeah, suck it, I DO read the paper."
by Christina_J on Dec 27, 2011 9:41 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Jimmer needs to hold his head up
things will get better
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 27, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Did he just walk past Snoopy's dog house?
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 27, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
how many times did you have to see this to figure out the Charlie Brown reference?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
Good Grief!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We need 40+ out of Thornton and Tyreke to win
Games IMO. Cousins played well just needs to stop shooting so many jumpers.
Westphal should have kept thompson in he was having a good game.
Also I would like to see Tyreke and Jimmer on the court more together Tyreke drives and Jimmer has open 3’s which he needs to shoot!
We just need to find a way to play like we did the first 18-20 Minutes for a whole 48 Minutes and we will win a lot of games.
Go Kings!!
by rekehavoc13jimmer7 on Dec 27, 2011 9:43 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I expect that
Reke Thornton Salmons and Fredette will average over 60 points a game this year….If I was forced to predict , I would say 64,8 a game.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Unfortunately
The ball doesn’t really make it to Jimmer when Tyreke and he play together for some reason.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Tyreke was probably busy shooting his 8 shots
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
Can't let Jimmer get in the way of Tyreke's 4 points
where would we be without those 4 freaking points
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Both games I've noticed
Jimmer seems to be tentative to fire away, especially from three. This is the whole point you drafted the kid right? If he’s got a wide open shot, he should take it.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 28, 2011 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I think he's still trying to figure out the NBA rhythm
and deferring a bit much. He looked a bit more confident tonight, but still probably not playing at his most comfortable.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I did think he looked better than opening night though
He does seem very concerned about running the offense before finding his own shot, and I am fine with him making that error rather than the other way around.
by MichaelMack on Dec 28, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
How strong is the influence to mold The Jimmer into a standard PG?
Rather than a JJ Redick type shooter?
Do you all think that the directive or the path intended is for Fredette to look to pass first by the coaching staff, or is it self motivated?
For Jimmer Fredette to become a solid NBA player he has to become more than Jason Kapono, JJ Redick, Anthony Morrow. This is his rookie season he has much to learn. What sort of player do you all want him to be? When do you start to place him on this path?
Ok, I am out of question marks for this reply.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 28, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely agree with this
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I think they are doing a good job at closing out on him
He’s getting shots, but they are pretty well contested. I think that shows some respect for his shooting in the league.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Deferring too much
The closing out doesn’t mean much to a guy with his range.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
I think he's trying to take good shots and play within the offense
And clearly the ball moves a lot better when he’s in the game.
I think he realizes we have enough out-and-out chuckers and we need him to be more than that. I think that pullup airball was a frustration shot.
I am curious what he was telling Westphal when Batum was schooling him. Probably obvious, but he was jabbering pretty good.
"His D was a difference at the end."
For him, a 28 footer is a decent % shot
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I'll take responsibility for that one
I was yelling at jimmer the whole defensive sequence before that pull up air ball that he needed to shoot instead of pass. If only I had told him to make it…
by Merickel on Dec 28, 2011 10:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, I heard a lot of 'Shooooot' yells on TV
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
For Jimmer
It seems that the more contested the shot the more likely it is to go in. He’s got great body control.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
everybody except Thornton looks tentative on offense
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Your leading shot takers from last night:
Cousins – 1 shot every 1:30
Thomas – 1 shot every 2:00
Thornton – 1 shot every 2:20
Thompson – 1 shot every 2:20
Fredette – 1 shot every 2:24
Evans – 1 shot every 3:38
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Should have said leading shot takers on a per minute scale
Here they are in volume order:
Cousins – 18
Thornton – 15
Fredette – 10
Evans – 8
Thomas/Thompson/Hickson all with 6
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Dribble dribble, risky pass around the perimeter to covered shooter, fake into the lane 5 feet, kick out, dribble, panic shot as clock expires
by Cyg on Dec 27, 2011 9:49 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
The scary thing about this statement
is that it could apply tonight to any one of four players.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yep
Our team essentially became 5 2009 vintage John Salmonses in the 2nd half. Except without making anything.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
The irony of that was that Salmons never really touched the ball much offensively tonight.
He took 3 total shots tonight.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I didn't even notice that
Now that is some irony!
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
He had more turnovers than made baskets
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
wasn't sure if this was the game you were looking for tickets to go see in Portland
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
It was.
I didn’t have the cheddar to do it. I wanted to go to experience the game. I knew it was possible that a game like tonight could have happened. I’m not 3 years old and naive. I’ve been a fan too long. I just wanted to see a Kings game in the Rose Garden and had a reasonable quality opportunity to do so. It just didn’t work out this time. It won’t in January either because of school. Hopefully next year or something.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm Headed down in January
Takin the day off to celebrate national kings day, baring a test of course…
by Merickel on Dec 28, 2011 1:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Always a good reason Merickel.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He did dribble out the shot clock once
ahhhh, old times!
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
By the way, enjoyed the Blazers
that team just straight up took the game from the Kings. Really aggressive. Liked it. A lot of complimentary pieces around Aldridge who basically play the exact opposite of Aldridge but I like it.
It's funny
Blazers fans are very split on Nate, but I’ve always loved him as a coach.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That's what happens when you have a 21-61 season.
It’s a huge hole to dig out of when you follow it up with a 32-50 season.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And roster-altering injuries to your best player as well as your #1 pick
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 28, 2011 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes indeedy.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
personally I feel that fans up north get a little too excited about some of their young late first round prospects
and think the coach is ruining them with the pace and structure there when in fact those players aren’t that terribly great
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
like you said earlier
cheer on the players for their success, blame the coach for everything that went bad
by wallywagon11 on Dec 27, 2011 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
That's my opinion.
They get all hyped up on potential and think all 12 guys are All-Stars. That’s not how the best NBA teams work let alone mid rung playoff teams.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
As a Blazer fan I agree...
Most fans are generally very optimistic about ALL their draft picks. The fact is Nate gets the most out of his players. None who have left/been traded have gone on to have better careers/years than when they were here (Stat-Bo being the exception although he arguably isn’t any better). But for whatever reason, Nate is cramping their style…I don’t get it!
#7
Jerryd Bayless was a prime example of this for me.
Sergio Rodriguez being another.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Rudy...
Webster (picked ahead of Paul and D Williams), Jarrett Jack might be an exception as well.
#7
Actually Portland traded down from the 3rd pick to take Martell Webster.....
But point taken nonetheless.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And I guess the jury is still out for Rudy.
He might shine under George Karl’s run and gun system.
#7
Rudy has disappointed me somewhat...
…but that’s understandable. He never really fit in in Portland IMO.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sounds like Kings fan, but minus the pace and structure from the coach.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Dec 28, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
They're crazy!
Or just fans lol. I can’t really blame tonight on PW but I will say Nate Mac is a great coach IMO. With all the craziness the Blazers have faced(mostly injuries, rotating GM carousel, lots of roster changes) he has kept them playing great & being very competitive. They are lucky to have him.
by Allbenji on Dec 27, 2011 10:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe we can trade coaches
We can throw in Whiteside
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Can you include a shooting coach?
or three in the trade?
I was never truly sold on him until this year
He has completely overhauled their offense to take advantage of their roster this season. Where as before, they were a slow and steady grind you down team to take advantage of Roy who could grind you down better than just about any other player in this league, now every time they get an offensive board it’s the two wings streaking down the sidelines and a quick outlet to the PG. they are going to be fun this year for sure and I forswear many Chalupas for blazer fans this season.
by Merickel on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Depth may be a problem for them, and I don't like their title chances any time before
a total rebuild or a sudden Oden health spurt. Really would not be optimistic about the future if I were a Blazer fan at this point. They are a first or second round playoff exit for the foreseeable future at this point.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
The problem Portland has is that Paul Allen...
….doesn’t want to go through another rebuild after a painful few years doing that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well we have more depth now than we've had in years...
Jamal is an upgrade over Rudy and Batum off the bench because Wallace starts is an upgrade. We’re thin at center but have been for several years due to injury. Thomas is old but no slouch considering he started 30+ games for the Bulls last year. Craig Smith is more muscle than we’ve had off the bench too. I think by far Blazer fans agree we have more depth than recent years past. Less potential (from young’ins) and more veterans.
#7
And yet you played LA 40 minutes last night. Did better tonight because it was a blt of a blow out
Wish you well, but will be surprised if you make it out of the first round.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think we have as good a chance as any of the last three if not better...
The West feels less top heavy than in years past. Before we had talent without experience. Now we have both even with the loss of Broy.
#7
The times,in the west, they are a changing.
good luck to you.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 28, 2011 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The Blazers are one of the classiest organizations in the NBA now.
Came a long way.
by VenomySnicket on Dec 28, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If by organization you mean the players and coaching staff
I would agree
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Great fanbase as well
Owner not so much.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 28, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have a question.
I walked in on the game late second quarter and the Kings were winning by 5. Were they a completely different looking team in the first half?
FIRE DIEGO KING!
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
They were playing decent before
But when the Blazers turned it up, we didn’t respond
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
They didn't just not respond
they panicked. Should be something that progressively disappears as the season goes on
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully
A team with no chemistry and little practice will panic because they don’t know who to turn to, especially with Reke and Thronton struggling.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Spoiler alert!
He gets elected to the Hall of Fame (baseball).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 27, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He must of scored lots of touchdowns
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
Guys, I have a completely irrelevant question.
What does the “games back” thing mean in the record widget on the right side? I’ve been wondering about it since last season, and I figure now is as good a time as any to ask.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
How many games back from the first place team
I’m bad at ‘splainin things. Someone will do better I’m sure
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
Basically its the amount of games we are behind whoever is in first place
Say Clips are 2-0 and Kings are 1-1, so the Kings are 1 game back. This means that they are better in the standings by 1 game.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
Games back is an indication of how many
Games we are behind the first place team in the division ( in this case the clippers I believe) so we are 1-1 and LAC is 2-0 so we are one game behind them record wise.
by Lotusprime on Dec 27, 2011 10:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Oh. Good to know.
Thanks prowse, raider and lotus!
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Basically (to expand a touch)
It’s the number of games you’d need to win and the team you’re chasing would need to lose for you to catch them in the standings.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Wait...
So does this loss mean when I listen to the radio tomorrow, we are no longer championship contenders? And that we should trade everyone who played tonight?
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 27, 2011 10:10 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
We shoulda traded everyone tonight before they played
Now they have no value.
by Lotusprime on Dec 27, 2011 10:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
That's rough
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Did they really put out a lineup with both Jimmer and Isaiah?
Bad idea. And Jimmer should also probably be out there in there in the final 7 minutes when they’re trailing and need shooters. Coach doesn’t have much confidence in him at the moment, needs to start playing with confidence.
Or!
A great idea that didn’t work tonight…
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 27, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Does 1 game really provide substantial proof about what a team can or can't do?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Absolutely.
It wasn’t really a reply to you although I did in fact reply to your comment. Sigh. I think the Kings discombulation of ridiculousness has taken over my commenting ability.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I didn't say there was proof one way or the other.
I just said it’s a bad idea that I don’t believe would work in most situations. I don’t think it’s difficult to exploit.
Well I got news for you buddy.
Jimmer really fucking stinks. Apparently he doesn’t understand how to facilitate on an off night for everyone around him (and not to mention Jimmer’s own off night), when he should take shots and play transition defense in any fashion. He’s so fucking awful he should refund the Maloofs for how poorly he played. What a fucking terrible pick Jimmer was.
All of the actual basketball criticism is actually true, but the slant has no actual purpose in this context. It’s neither warranted nor reasonable. And just because you don’t think something is difficult to exploit at the NBA level makes me believe you watch the NBA far less than you think you do. Exploiting matchup’s is the name of the NBA game at it’s heart, and if more teams could do it successfully and consistently you’d probably see 20 teams competing for a championship instead of 6 or 8 at most.
Let’s not jump overboard about what works and what doesn’t at this stage. It’s 2 games into the season for chrissake. So forgive me if I roll my eyes at your suggestion that a lineup doesn’t work or does work based on an exceptionally limited timeframe.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Please stop swearing. It's unwarranted and this is a public forum. Many people don't want to see it.
I agree that Jimmer hasn’t been good, but you’re also jumping overboard in declaring that he sucks and it was a terrible pick after his first two games in the league. Very small sample size. My suggestion was from a small sample size, as well. I was just suggesting something. This board is for sharing your opinion, and that was what I did. I would say the same thing about any lineup with two short rookie guards in at the same time. I don’t think it would work, but maybe it would. You’re free to give your opinion, as well.
I think you fell into the chasm
As in he was being sarcastic
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
I wasn't sure about that. Good to know.
However, I don’t really see the point in bashing on my suggestions. I haven’t posted on this board for so long, and it’s kind of discouraging if I get chewed out by posting an opinion about the game.
With all due respect...
…you simply don’t know enough about the Kings to being taken at face value when you suggest lineup changes or when players should receive minutes in the rotation. And trust me when I say that’s the nicest way I’ll state that.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't know enough to suggest that playing two short rookies in the same lineup when you're down big is generally a bad idea?
Seems to be a universal theme. I’m not suggesting a whole lot at the moment. I admit my suggestions about Jimmer sometimes are very homer of me as a BYU fan. However, I thought this particular comment about the lineup was very reasonable.
They were down big without using that lineup.
You’re going to be down big one way or the other. Why not see how it works?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think the 2 mini guard lineup can work
But Batum was a tough match for jimmer, who already has suspect d. The lineup Didn’t work tonight, and this early into their careers may be ineffective on most nights, but I think it could be a decent lineup at times
..."You've got Burkle?"
by kingsforaday on Dec 27, 2011 11:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Although the Jimmer/Batum match up was an obvious mismatch, that lineup for the Kings was the only time they were trading blows with the Blazers the entire 2nd half. Offensively they were doing nothing before that lineup, after they subbed out of it they got freaking spanked.
I also have a bone to pick with these complaints … like the fact it was the best lineup the entire 2nd half. How can you pounce on the one thing that sorta worked?
I also have a bone to pick with these complaints … like the fact it was the best lineup the entire 2nd half. How can you pounce on the one thing that sorta worked?
Yep.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I just don't like the idea of throwing both rookies into the fire at the same time
on their second nights in the NBA when neither is a particularly good defender and they have a lot of pressure to cut down the lead.
Yes, at this point I feel it is risky to put them in together
It may work sometimes, but I don’t think the are ready to play like Jason Terry and JJ Barea consistantly.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
So what?
This is a young team and at some point you are going to throw out young players together rookies or not. It’s a part of this team regardless of whether you are comfortable with the concept.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's the NBA
Time to put on the big boy pants. You’re collecting a check, get ready to play.
Neither of these guys were one-and-dones in college. Thomas played three years and Fredette played four. They are both OLDER than either Tyreke or DeMarcus.
In short, I agree with others that don’t see the big deal here. While these two are clearly a liability at times on defense, they appear to be decent offensive players – and that’s what the Kings needed.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
With a shortened season..
Gotta throw the kiddies in the deep end, no real camp or preaseason to speak of, this is it, sink or swim.
Which is why a guy like Cisco
should be in the rotation.
Though I don’t know who you take out of it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I would have liked to see Cisco get a few of Outlaw's minutes last nite
but Cisco is a known quantity. We have to see if Outlaw is going to work out or not, but if he doesn’t pick it up in the next five or six games, I think we will be seeing more Cisco and less Travis.
by MichaelMack on Dec 28, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
To add something to the arguement
Hiding small players on Batum has been effective in the past. For example, in the Blazers/Suns series, Batum was unable to take advantage of Nash guarding him.
Even with Batum coming off of good play in Europe, it was smart of the coach to make him prove that he can take advantage of Jimmer.
by Batumshakalaka on Dec 28, 2011 2:56 AM PST up reply actions
Agree with Batum here.
Even the Mike’s (as much as I dislike them) pointed that out. Batum’s technique on the block was significantly better than it was in the past.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pretty sure the Kings were down 2 points
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
3 points
(but I am also counting Hickson’s second free throw)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
I'm talking about in the 3rd qtr Wally.
Not in the 2nd qtr.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah you were right.
They were down 4 at the time. My bad Wally.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
and I was only saying 3 because it was between free throws
I never know what to do with that
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
You were more right than I was...
….and technically accurate. I’m not sure it really matters, but I’ll have to check the StR bylaws to make sure that withfore that the accurate depiction of said comment reflects the intent of the reader therefore containing the precise language of a serious person about a silly subject. I think.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 28, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes you've got to chalk up a loss as a loss
I didn’t see any combination of players in the second half that played effectively. They all sucked and Portland took them to the woodshed.
It’s the NBA, it happens (especially to young teams with very little practice time on the road in a loud building on the second night of a back-to-back).
They got whooped. Kind of silly to think about individual lineup decisions that cost the team.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 28, 2011 6:13 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Amen lord Otis.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Batumsomethingsomething up above might have a good point
but just want to say, I was confused about it and wrote about it when it was actually happening. I felt like they lost out on a chance in the 3rd to tie it up but then again perhaps there was some strategy I didn’t dare think about with Batum.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
wish there was a sarcasm font like comic sans
or something so people like me and Mr. Rockie wouldn’t keeping falling head first into the hole. And ye he took a big header.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
by Bluejohn on Dec 28, 2011 1:10 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Playing both is just a heuristic lineup
and I would recommend going to a different one if the team is playing good enough to exploit it.
could conceivably be metahueristic
but I don’t want to go that far in a short season
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
Screw you guys
I have no idea what the hell you’re joking about = not funny!
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
ummmm yes?
In brief, imagometaheuristic would be an untested purely hypothetical solution to reach an optimal solution based on n number of trials within given constraints. As Bluejohn says, in a shortened season, whether n would be enough for a real solution is extremely doubtful.
It’s also a word I just made up. ;)
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
I was answering LTTG
I knew what you guys were doing =)
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that cost us the game.
Deja vu all over again.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You must have been watching Inception again you Twitvid.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You made me think of Billy Ocean.
I don’t like thinking of Billy Ocean.
Because he makes me think of Billy Owens.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
by Juan Primo on Dec 27, 2011 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Does that count as alliteration?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sure
but iashwash is your Caribbean Queen.
And I don’t mind thinking of Billy Owens, because he make me think of Mitch Richmond who makes me think of Chris Webber.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2011 11:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 27, 2011 10:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
That's probably the funniest crying face I've ever seen.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
The Blazers are a good team
I’m not at all surprised that we lost this game. I’m actually excited at how we were able to compete with them for much of 3 quarters on their home floor considering nobody besides DMC had a quality game. I don’t think many teams can beat the Blazers in Portland, they have a good team with a loud, supportive crowd. We need to learn from this game and try to take care of business on Thursday against a tough Bulls team.
"The mustache is the epitome of all that is manly" -George Parros
by Cincy Kings Fan on Dec 27, 2011 10:23 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Out of shape kings!
First off i would like to say Tyreke Evans is my favorite NBA player. Now for the negative, has anyone noticed that Tyreke played great in the first quarters of our 2 games and that he steadily declined over the next 3? Its very simple, he is out of shape and so is most of our team. They just need time to recondition, and I hope they put the effort towards getting back in shape, and not just cruise on pure, raw talent!
by rise_to_mediocrity on Dec 27, 2011 10:24 PM PST reply actions
Chuck Hayes is definitely out of shape!
Tyreke and DeMarcus could stand to lose 5 pounds each.
The rest of the guys look in decent shape.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
5 whole lbs.
Those stinking fucking fatties. How dare they!
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 27, 2011 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed < / Lopan voice >
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
LOL
You guys are brutal.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Proud of it. :)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
On an unsuspecting new user.
How dare you!!!
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I got big nutsacks.
Any other questions?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree.
Tyreke’s aggressiveness just declines and his jumper falls short. He just looks disinterested at times. Now in regards to chuck, i love what I’ve seen so far and i think he’s a great fit for us but i thought black was supposed to be slimming. Dude looks HUGE!
by rise_to_mediocrity on Dec 27, 2011 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
Weight is just a number
but they look so sluggish
by rise_to_mediocrity on Dec 27, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
This should do the trick.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
by Slam_Dunk on Dec 28, 2011 7:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
DMC is already in better shape than last year
and that was with an extended unsupervised break. I don’t know what everyone is expecting. Overall the whole organization was very surprised how good of shape the players came in.
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
These guys are PRO ATHELETS
An extended off season is not an excuse to be out of shape.On the contrary, they should be in better shape with an improved game with all that time off!
by rise_to_mediocrity on Dec 27, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Tell that to the rest of the league
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 27, 2011 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
But that was my point
they didn’t come in out of shape
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
No player can come in at game conditioning
if they worked that much in the offseason they would be way too worn out. Just look at Omri, he worked too hard in the offseason and it hurt him in the long run.
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 27, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
DMC looks a lot better
he did loose trim down. Tyreke just looks tired
by rise_to_mediocrity on Dec 27, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
You have to consider they have had little time to practice together as a team.
Conditioning is just one part of the puzzle, learning to play together another.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
You and your 5 pounds
You realize that’s a healthy shit for these guys?
There was a glimpse of this unravelling last night when the Lakers came charging back but
the Kings withstood them by virtue of being fresher and the homecourt edge. The Kings definitely need to work on their offense. I thought JT was the only player who looked sharp offensively. Scored nearly a point a minute, but Westfall decided 11 minutes was all he deserved.
Stay Thirsty My Friends
WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.
I think we need to get used to games like this
Especially in the first half of the season. We have a young team with many new pieces and a minimal training camp with little time to practice during the season. Sometimes the wheels are gonna fall off, especially to veteran teams who have been playing together longer.
Just finished the game and without reading any of the comments will say
No one had a good game tonight. Hard to win against anyone when nobody plays well. Checking the stats after the game, I guess you could say DMC had an okay game, but really nobody played well. And even with that we weren’t really out of it until the last 6-7 minutes. That’s encouraging.
Too many turnovers, terrible FT shooting, no one to guard GW (Hightips called this one), and no one could hit a shot after the first quarter.
Now to read the comments.
LOL
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
+1
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
The 2 boards and 3 fouls in 14 minutes, kept me from mentioning him
but yeah, could put him in the same category as Cuz.
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 28, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
But you know its a sad day when he was our 3 best scorer in 14 minutes of play
+/- wise it went like this
Jimmer Fredette, G -1
Travis Outlaw, SF -2
DeMarcus Cousins, PF -3
Jason Thompson, C -4
Pretty Nasty when your starters looked like this +/- wise
DeMarcus Cousins, PF -3
John Salmons, SG -13
Marcus Thornton, G -15
Tyreke Evans, PG -21
Chuck Hayes, C -22
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Things will get better...Kings will get better.
Still early part of the season and I for one was rooting for a win although when the Blazers made a run, deep inside of me was saying, its good the team tasted a defeat for now, rather than later. The reason was they could still make an adjustment and see what they did wrong. I was amazed on how they play the 1st half to build that 10-12 point lead but exactly the opposite on the 2nd half. I think they will get better and like what AYKIS says GROWING PAINS…
"All those turnovers were a coach’s nightmare. I came into this game and I didn’t even have any gray hair" - Paul Westphal
We're still better than the REDACTED Lakers..right??
"All those turnovers were a coach’s nightmare. I came into this game and I didn’t even have any gray hair" - Paul Westphal
Kings 1-1, Redacted 1-2
"All those turnovers were a coach’s nightmare. I came into this game and I didn’t even have any gray hair" - Paul Westphal
The Kings have an undersized front line, and things aren't going to get easier over the next 2 games
We beat a LA team without their best big, and they had to play MWP at the 4 instead of the 3. The next time things won’t be so easy.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Wheels fell off
Probably the best description. 20 minutes it looked like the Kings depth was going to get the best of the Blazers, despite the lack of outside shooting. Outside Jimmer hitting a few buckets no one found their mark, the Blazers adjusted flooding defenders in the paint than panic ensued.
Good recap, wasn’t any hope of the Kings winning the game cause about everyone played poorly. Oh well, take that beautiful ass kicking and move on.
I CANT TAKE IT
No, I never said "Hey sweetheart I'm Rookie of the Year." I told her "I'm Tyreke Evans" though............Tyreke Evans
by 1damutt on Dec 27, 2011 11:53 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
If Donte Greene is smart....
he’ll focus 100% on defense when he does get his chance to play. He should not attempt a single shot unless its a fast break drive. There are too many players on this team that just want to shoot, shoot, shoot. If Donte can just play solid D and not turn the ball over he will get his minutes.
P.S. Outlaw’s long range 2 pointers are already starting to piss me off.
Outlaw is pissing me off, I didn't think he would be this bad
The Portland broadcasters mentioned that he is wearing some type of cast or brace for a broken hand. If he is still recovering from injury, I hope he can play much better when healthy.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 7:56 AM PST up reply actions
Chuck and JJ are career 6pts per game scorers even with starters minutes
We can’t afford to not attempt to score no matter who we have at the SF. Yes, Donte will win his minutes by playing defense, but if the defense is trying to stop the guards he needs to take and make the open shots that come his way.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
This is about as bad as the Kings can play
they weren’t playing well in the first half even though they were leading through most of it. Portland flexed their defensive muscles in the second half, made mean faces at our boys and the Kings forgot how to play. There will be plenty more losses this season but there will be few that look as bad as this. Suck it up, quit blaming the coach and let’s hope even if they lose that they look like a real NBA team.
In a usual season this would still be the third week of training camp and this would be a preseason game and because they usually don’t televise the preseason games we wouldn’t have even seen this. Chock it up to youth or inexperience but it’s way to early to get overwrought about one game.
If they still look like this after their 20th game: Have at it
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
by Bluejohn on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
Amen.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Exactly how many years does a lottery player have to play before he can't use youth or inexperience as an excuse?
We have two very tough games coming up against 2 teams with far superior talent and size on the frontline. And, we’re averaging 13.5 assists and 16 turnovers after 2 games. We’re getting beat off the boards and outscored in the paint.
Now I don’t know why some people feel that there is better ball movement, because I don’t see it. Maybe that will change, and the players will eventually pick up on the offensive strategy that PW is preaching. But, I see about one or two more wins before the Kings head out on the road on the 10th. Then they play 10 road games and 2 home games thru the end of January. That’s 21 games and I’ll be shocked if they have 5 wins total.
I’ll say it one more time, our guards don’t create easy baskets inside and we are a jump shooting team. We’ve only seen man on man iso offense under PW, and I only expect the same except thru 4 players instead of 2. When our jumpers are falling we can win, but when they aren’t we lose because we aren’t going to get significant scoring out of any of the 3 new veterans.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Now I don’t know why some people feel that there is better ball movement, because I don’t see it.
Haven’t seen it either. I thought the Lakers looked really bad on D and we just got open off of picks.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think that it's good yet, but it's better
Overall there has been less dribbling, and Cousins is getting up a shot every 1:55, which would indicate that there is an increased effort to get him the ball. I think that the offense is a long, long way from being fluid, but I also think that there has been an improvement.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I did find that stat very interesting
So much so that I check the stat from last season. DeMarcus had 1006 FGA’s in 2310 minutes last season. Or about one shot every 2:18. The problem that I see with that stat is that Cousins had the 4th worse TS% on the team last season. He only beat out Wright, Tyreke and Donte.
Not a good stat when you top 2 young players are getting a high number of shots and shooting at such a poor TS%.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It would be a bigger problem if they were veteran players
As they are young players, you look for signs of improvement and heading in the right direction. And while it is a small sample size, I would say that splitting a b2b against the Lakers and Blazers might be a sign of improvement, though it could certainly prove to be a fluke.
I’m not saying this team is good. But I am saying that it is better, if even only by a little bit.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Another sign of improvement in the early season
Undefeated at home in SACRAMENTO
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
There are a lot of young players that have a better shooting percentage then Tyreke
youth isn’t an all encompassing excuse. And, while I look for improvement, just finding it isn’t a guarantee of future success. We’ve all fallen into the fan favorite trap where our draft picks improve slowly each year but never really evolve into even a starter.
There were 49 players who were only in their 2nd season in the NBA last year. Of those Tyreke was 39th in eFG%. I don’t expect of high usage player to lead the league in FG%, but I’d like to see something above the league average.
I think we have more depth on the team, but I’m not sure the team is better. Defensively yes, but offensively no. I think Omri was a better 3 than Outlaw. Salmons is a better 2 than anyone we had on the team last season, but I don’t think he’s the answer at the 3. And, I’d rather have Dalembert than JJ both offensively and defensively.
But, I spite of all the new pieces, if they can’t play team basketball better, they’re not going to be better.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 28, 2011 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And there are a host of young players that never pulled a 20-5-5
Are we going to spend the rest of the evening comparing apples to walnuts?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
On PW
A lineup of Isaiah-Jimmer-Outlaw-Hickson-DMC is really going to struggle offensively. This 5 tanked us in the 3rd quarter: we got a few buckets out of DMC but were plagued by terrible ball movement. PW has to keep either Tyreke or Thornton on the floor at all times.
by sactown on Dec 28, 2011 7:06 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Sounds good in theory
But in practice and according to the box score, that lineup was better than what we looked like when Tyreke and Thornton were in the game.
"His D was a difference at the end."
actually the box score doesn't tell you that at all but alright
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The box score can be pretty illuminating
when you know how to read it and what to look for.
"His D was a difference at the end."
That's neat you like to draw sweeping conclusions from one box score but you can't tell what you claim you can tell from the boxscore
you have to look up the actual lineups in the play-by-play.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
That certainly is another tool
It will pretty much confirm the shorthand of the +/- in most cases and certainly in this case.
"His D was a difference at the end."
it's not another tool, it's the tool
if you are diligent enough you can keep track of it yourself but if not, check out 82games.com as the season progresses (don’t do it now, doubt they updated it yet)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
+/- is the most useless stat in the game today,
especially when viewed in small sample sizes. Chuck Hayes was a 22 last night. Was he the most ineffective player on the floor for the Kings? No, but he had the worst +/.
Maybe the stat has some validity on a season-long basis, maybe not. But it is virtually useless as a one-game stat.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Stuff should not have been lined out
Stupid auto-formatting.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Marcus Thornton was a +2 vs. the Lakers,
while Travis Outlaw was a +11.
Case closed.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 28, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree when talking about small sample size
I do think it has value long term.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Like most stats, it's much more useful with increased quantity
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
To an extent
But if you are (for example) Kyrie Irving, and your team gets blown out all year and you happen to be the guy that is getting the most overall burn, you’re probably going to look like the worst player on the team, while the truth is probably more tied to the guys that are surrounding you.
I don’t see +/- as a stat that stands on its own. I see it as a stat that, when combined with other data, can make some sense.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think its too misleading to be in the boxscore
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Much more useful
a defensive stat. Shtg % against would be great better too if possible.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
It certaintly has value though
and Kyle Irving will likely have a plus minus around the same as the guys around him if that were the case so he in fact likely wouldn’t look much worse unless he indeed is in particular really struggling (often times by the way, this happens with young guards who turn the ball over)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Either way, it's not the end all be all of stats
but then again I don’t see many people claiming it is.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
It's in the freakin boxscore!
and means almost nothing individually.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
I love it in the boxscore
but then again that wasn’t even close to my first experience with it and it gives me a good chuckle. Can see the frustration when people take one game samples seriously but for me it’s always kind of a hoot to check it.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
There has got to be something better
It’s useless individually – and yet that’s how they post it.
Dumb
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah Wally I think there are times where it's useful..
…but there are a lot of times where it’s mostly not. That’s because I check them daily though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Stats sense
I don’t see +/- as a stat that stands on its own. I see it as a stat that, when combined with other data, can make some sense.
That makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, that applies to most of the stats in the box score.
"His D was a difference at the end."
As I noted earlier,
I see no merit in the stat as a nightly number, so my comment is not applicable to the box score. To make clear, I do not believe that it belongs in the box score. My response was as it pertains to its use as a season-long stat.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
If you aren't taking a big batch of games with +/-...
…there is just too much noise with it. That’s what the statheads say anyway.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Chuck Hayes wasn't very effective last night
The Blazers were scoring easy bucket after bucket at the rim and Chuck had that look like, “Yep, my fault.”
In his defense, the Blazers were really looking to push tempo on both sides and our whole team played flat in the second half and didn’t match their intensity. Plus Chuck had some tough covers.
"His D was a difference at the end."
We got beat by a better team last night.
I’m Ok with that.
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Dec 28, 2011 8:03 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
They're the better team?
But they are a “first round exit”! Lottery here we come!
by Sacramental on Dec 28, 2011 10:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
They're not so much a first round exit this year.
I’m expecting us to be around .500 this year. This isn’t a major hurdle, it’s just a loss that was likely to happen.
"Cousins is the Blaster to Evans’ Master, the Hammer to Evans’ Sickle"- HP
by tomroadrunner on Dec 28, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I could see them pushing for homecourt advantage in the first round this year
They’re a very good team that probably doesn’t have enough to go all the way. But I could see them sneaking into the Western Conference Finals if everything goes right for them, which hasn’t happened seemingly ever.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 28, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
They lack depth, but they have a pretty good core 7.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
We need a pg
Its painfully obvious, escspecially with a young team. We have no point guard. When the offence is not going well we need someone who can get others involved. For some reason that doesn’t ever seem like a priority to Petrie.
Yeah, but...
We need a “real” point guard. You know, like someone around 6’0", that can get you 5 to 8 assists a game!
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 8:22 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Would have been perfect last night, right?
That guy could have totally prevented Wallace, Aldridge and Batum from getting uncontested open court layups all game. :)
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Or somehow a point guard
would have made our guys hit their open shots that they just seemed to be missing all night. Hell, we even had trouble finishing layups.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
We don't even need a real PG
Miami, NY and the Lakers seem pretty good without a real PG. Also, in our glory days we didn’t have a real PG. The Hawks played a few seasons with an old Bibby and Johnson ran most of the offense. We just need Tyreke to get closer to being an all-star and he should be fine with Jimmer and Thorton outside.
Our team looks good, but we just need to be more consistant and learn to not panic. I feel that we don’t know how to stop the other teams run and that leads to digging a 20 point hole. We can’t do that without Brockman to bring us back from being down 35 points anymore.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
For the most part, Portland's guards did very little last night
This idea that “one size fits all” as far as winning ballgames in the NBA is shortsighted and old fashioned.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
The "One Size Fits All" positional theory is shortsighted..
…but it’s not old fashioned. Well, unless being old fashioned means being stupid regardless of age or experience.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They got out executed on offense
then it spread to the defense.
Confidence collapsed, especially as even FTs weren’t going in.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
Well said and perfect summary of the game if you didn’t see it. Rec’d.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Outside of Boston
Is there even a contender with a true pg?
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
Can we start calling the Clippers a contender?
If not, then I think all the contenders have a scoring PG or defensive PG, not a traditional PG.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
yes, no
Gimmie a week or so Will You!
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Ture
I hesitated with Dallas since Kidd may start, but I don’t think he will play full time mins. I’m guessing around 25 min a game. But he is one of the turest PG’s
Not sure about the Spurs. I know that Parker gets a lot of assists, but I have always viewed him as more of a scoring/shoot first PG. Also, I don’t think the Spurs are contenders anymore.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
maybe
But we don’t have one who really runs our offence. We did miss some open shots yes, but we still have way to much one on one play. Whwn things get tight the ball seems to stop moving. This team has tons of talent, and is going to be good no doubt. I’m just saying a nice veteran pg would be nice right about now. That being said its not like there are alot of them that were available. I said before the season i thought we were going to have trouble scoring and everybody ripped me. Just sayin
So you were probably pretty quiet after the first game, then noisy after the second?
Sounds like fun when you extrapolate that over a full season.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 28, 2011 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fire the whole team
Time to blow this up and rebuild with draft picks and young players. Oh, wait, the Kings are already the youngest team in the NBA.
TRADE EVERYONE!!
Fire Westphaul
Fire Petrie
Trade Cousins, Jimmer, Thorton and Tyreke for Draft picks.
We need to start over after this 1-1 start.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the Wizards are the youngest team in the league
They have like a 21.5 average, we are 24 or so.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
That link
I added, from the Washington paper, says that the Kings are the youngest (but I also heard elsewhere that we are the 2nd youngest to the Wizards). Either way, we don’t need to panic yet.
Yeah, there was a graphic in the Kings game the other night
Showing we were the youngest.
Could have been wrong, but there’s no way the Wizards are at 21.5. There really aren’t that many players in the league individually who are that young.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I thought that was unbelievably low as well
But I saw it on a graphic during a game.
This thing has them at 25.5 and the fourth youngest team
http://www.nba.com/wizards/news/game_preview_wizards_vs_nets_122311.html
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
Ya
I’m not quite sure where whoever made the graphic I saw got their info from LOL
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 28, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
We needed AK47 Tonight
Salmons can guard the Iggy’s Kobe’s undersized SF’s and SG in this league.
Ak47 can guard the Gerald Wallace’s Lebron’s Melo’s the undersized PF’s. And SF’s I’m the league.
by rekehavoc13jimmer7 on Dec 28, 2011 8:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Donte could have played some minutes guarding Crash
That is what Donte does best….guard stretch 4’s
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
One thing you can say about our Kings
When the wheels come off
- they go flying, nothing half assed about it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
I think we should be looking at the positives from this game
Everyone that watched the game can’t say they weren’t really excited about what they saw for the first 20 minutes of the game.
Really solid defense, good ball movement, DMC getting looks inside, great rebounding from Hayes, Tyreke attacking the basket, etc… I consider myself a fan with realistic goals, but at the point where they had that nice lead, I was 100% convinced they were making playoffs.
Just imagine what can happen if this team can play that way 48 minutes a night. That’s obviously going to take some time, but I have faith they’ll get there. Hopefully tomorrow night they do it, but I’ll be happy with 30 minutes of good basketball and a close game against another very good team. You never know, maybe they make their free throws and win the game.
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 8:48 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Yes, plenty of positives for the first half
I look forward to more Jimmer. I feel that he isn’t as agressive as he will be later in the season, but from what I’ve seen I think he will fit in pretty well.
I also think it is a positive that we didn’t get Jamal Crawford. I thought he looked awful. We don’t need another player who can put up 2-11 shooting on this team.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
I thought our defense for the most part was good most of the game
It kind of fell apart towards the end when the team just got completely flummoxed by Portland but overall I thought it was pretty good. It was our offense that was terrible. Putrid even.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Another positive about the defense
Is the teams ability to get position and draw the charge. Hayes, DMC, and Thomas all got a couple last night.
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 9:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hayes and DMC are both very good at getting position and drawing charges
which is almost the best defensive move you can have, since it not only guarantees your team the ball, but it also gives the other player a foul. I’m surprised Charges drawn isn’t a mainstream stat yet, it’s so important.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 28, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Now he has to stop balancing that with charges on the other end
It’s really in his head too, making him tentative on the offensive side. Though perhaps if he didn’t get a foul 15 seconds into the game he wouldn’t have to worry about fouls so much.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
He does like to lower his shoulder
I thought he avoided that fairly well last night, opting for the spin move instead, which gives me chills everytime. He really has a great sense for the defenders body positioning in the post. It seems like it takes a lot of young bigs a while to develop that sort of thing, but for DMC, it seems like it just comes naturally.
It also seems like it frustrates guys the most
I’d say that a large percentage of ref bitching results from a guy getting called for a charge. Great way to get someone distracted from the game.
If we hadn't blown game in the 4th quarter last year, I wouldn't be concerned
but we did. We had teams shut down our offense, to the point where we scored in single digits when teams turned on the defense. And, we couldn’t get into our offensive sets started or score inside. That doesn’t seem to have changed even if it is a small sample size.
I love that people are positive and are willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt. But, when I see the same things going wrong, again and again, I find it very hard to believe that change is right around the corner.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I agree that (as you're implying) that if that keeps happening
PW won’t be around too much longer.
It’s not that the Blazers forced us into that for a time, it’s that PW couldn’t seem to coach them out of it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
I understand your concerns, and there the same as mine
I’m absolutely terrified of the second half when we know the defense is going to get tight. But to be fair this is a different team than last year, and through two games under the offseason circumstances, I feel more optimistic than discouraged.
What worked against the lakers didn’t work against Portland in the second half. They pressured the guards and shutdown any penetration from screens. They made adjustments, kings didn’t and panicked. Like you said, small sample size, so let’s see what happens in the next few games.
What worked against
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 12:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I see different players but the team seems the same
and the lockout and short preseason is one of the reasons I think things haven’t changed that much over last season. And, while the should give PW the benefit of the doubt, without change the results should look very similar to last season.
But, with 21 games between the start of the season and the end of January and the majority traveling on the road, change will be difficult. If PW can accomplish it he deserves an extension. If he doesn’t excuses aren’t enough to save his job.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Fair enough
Let’s see what they do in the next few games. We know Chicago is a good defensive team so this will be a good test. I don’t expect the kings to not struggle at certain points as defensive schemes and intensity changes, but I don’t want to see anything like last night again.
If the kings were to fire Westphal, who would you want to realistically replace him?
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree HT
Still, we are are very stagnant on offense, and we have had so few assists in two games. Shortened training camp, young players, I don’t see those as viable excuses. Salmons is a veteran, Outlaw is a veteran, Hayes is a veteran, and our young PG has played 5000 minutes. Of course it could get better, but at this point I think we have a systemic problem with offensive sets and ball movement.
Did we have a systematic problem with our offense against the lakers?
by Crocoduck on Dec 28, 2011 2:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No we had one hot hand, and a team dressed as lakers but not the lakers
If Thornton shots his normal 44% from the field instead of 70%, we probably lose that game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I got an idea.
Let’s dress up the Loch Ness monster as a player, say Donte Greene, and see if he can shoot 50% on this team. Probably not tho. This offense is too stagnant and too systemically terrible to sustain any kind of success because there isn’t 5 pass first PG’s on the court all at the same time.
Whoops, not what you said. But, I would be curious what you find as success for this team. I’m beginning to wonder exactly what this team would have to do before you consider it success.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They'd have to start playing like a team before I'd even consider them a team.
How about one player getting back to stop the fast break before the guy that just shot the miss gets back. A few off the ball picks and screens that actually free up a player for an open shot would be nice. A nice rotation on defense when someone leaves his man to help double would be a good step.
Come on, you’ve commented on enough of my posts and I’ve been pretty open about my opinion. Do You really need to ask.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The 2000-04 Kings aren't coming back.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think we shot ourselves in the foot here early.
Sure, we had a decent lead, however, with those missed FT’s, we just killed our momentum. The Blazers then took an advantage and intensified the D.
I believe we shot close to Shaq’s career FT numbers in the first half. We eventually ended up on 64% FT shooting.
One more thing though,
Paging Tyreke Evans…
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I didn't see much of the game
But from what it seems like we need to just focus on Defense and rebounding and trusting that points will come…..Best way to go on a big scoring run? STOP the other team….
Their transition offense, especially from Wallace who just killed us
was disheartening. Nothing worse than working hard on offense at one end, missing a shot and seeing 2 points go up on the other end within 5 seconds.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Two things from looking at the advanced boxscores from both games
Only forced 21 turnovers in 2 games.
DMC is so far so good anywhere between the hoop and nine feet out. 10 feet and out not so much.
we had 11 against LA and 18 in Portland for 29 turnovers and 27 assists
that is never a good sign. But one of the most telling stats for me is that we got outscored 44 pts to 30 points in the paint against LA, and 52 to 42 by Portland. These are the high percentage shots so if we can’t get our points in the paint, we need to get them from the more difficult outside shots. and, we saw what happens when those shots aren’t falling last night.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
You can also look to Orlando as proof
Outside of Howard (Which isn’t used enough on offense) they rely on the outside shot. The keeps them from going all the way because if their shots don’t fall, they have no chance
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 28, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
And as good as Howard is
over 55% of his shots at the rim are assisted baskets while DeMarcus has to do it on his own and has only 2 assisted baskets out of 7 this season or 28%. For all of last season DeMarcus was at 32% on assisted baskets at the rim.
There are very few big men that can score at a high percentage inside and at a double digit rate, and even fewer that can do it on their own. There were only 20 centers that scored in double digits last season and only 6 that scored more than 15 ppg. And, of the top 30 in minutes per game, only one scored less then 50% of his baskets unassisted.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
From comments after the game from PW, they will work on not panicking if plan A on offense
doesn’t work. They may not have had really too much time to work on various scenarios in the shortened training camp. Not to mention experience being a huge factor in this. The Chuckwagon looked a bit spent out there last night. It will take him a few weeks to get into game shape.
Teams will make adjustments to stop them and everyone will study the film to mimic what the Blazers did the 2nd half. Our coaches need to earn their money and make the proper changes themselves to keep a nice flow on offense.
Ba-da
Yay, no Don Geronimo this morning
actual Kings and other sports talk.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
Very good point from a caller
Portland overpressured the guards and the ball movement just stopped, didn’t move. Is the answer that as soon as that happens someone needs to get out of the set and come help?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Hopefully
yes, thinking back it seemed like most of what PDX did was trap the guards handling the ball – that shortened the shot clock and everything flowedf from that.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
yup
happened a ton in the second half. Usually the guard was able to pass out of it but the Blazers were able to recover in time
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Happened a ton in the second half last year too.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Hmmm, 'flowed' wasn't the word I was looking for.
Crumbled? Crappep?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
yeah whenever they moved over half court and brought the ball up the side one of the forwards would come up and they'd box the Kings guard with the ball in the corner
and they were able to recover every single time
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
If you try that on a team that moves the ball well you will give up an easy bucket.
I’m sure they will be working on that. You know other teams will do the same thing to the Kings.
Ba-da
Just quickly rotate out of your set and receive the pass and pass it on
back in. Setting those traps are tiring, break them often enough and teams do them less.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I saw a lot of pressuring and double teaming our guards on the perimeter.
But we couldn’t get the ball into the low post at all. I watched part of the 2002 WCF yesterday and forgot how easy it was for Bibby to get the ball in to Webber on the post. I immediately remembered his little half hook pass over the defenders head into the post. IMHO, we could benefit greatly by teaching our guys how to get the ball inside without having to hand deliver it.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
You usually need some shot clock to get it into the post
and it’s pretty hard in any case when the ball is being trapped out at 30 feet. They need to realize that the sets are not concrete footsteps, it’s the other teams job to get you out of them, you have to move – adjust and Pass(!)
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Is Don Geronimo done for good in the monrnings?
I haven’t listened much since the Rise Guys left. I’ve never heard Don talk sports.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 28, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
just vacation I think
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I think that's the first time that I have seen
“Don Geronimo” and “good” used in the same sentence.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I guess J Ross is in for C Dave, another guy I don't listen to.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Minutes review
While watching the game, I would have sworn that we went “small” for a good period of time, and that Outlaw logged more than a few “stretch 4” minutes. But the box score says otherwise.
According to the box score, Cousins, Hayes, Hickson and Thompson played all but one of the 96 up front minutes, meaning that 23 of Outlaw’s 24 minutes were played on the wing. Adding Salmons’ 20 minutes, that would mean that there would have been only 5 minutes left for the “small” set. Now, 5 minutes does represent 10% of game time, so it’s not nothing. But it sure felt like it went on longer than that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
3:30 of that was at the end of the 3rd
that was when it was mismatch city with DMC being a nightmare for Portland and Jimmer and Isaiah allowing a lot of penetration on the other end
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Surprises me too
I guess the IT / Jimmer time made it seem longer. Then again, that whole section of the game was toturously slow motion – at least on our possessions.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 28, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
That's how I saw it, with Outlaw on with 2 other bigs trying to stop Wallace or Batum.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
That was my thinking too
It seemed like IT was in there a lot longer than his 12 mintues. Time really does fly when you’re having fun…and it just crawls through brutal stretches.
Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
by ItsALeagueGame on Dec 28, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder what percentage of games we will win if Tyreke has more turnovers then points like yesterday?
That would be 0%. Lets hope that is a one time thing.
Ba-da
I think it's going to happen all the time
Since it’s happened consistently throughout his career.
Oh, wait…
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I just hope it doesn't happened on one of those 20 point nights
or holy shit we are screwed!
:)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 28, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
There's got to be some kind of instant-amnesty provision in his contract
When he goes for 20 points and 20 turnovers!
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Well
Even D-Will had 10 PTS, 6 TO and 1 AST last night.
NaPG.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 28, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
The Kings are now 0-3
in games when Tyreke has more or the same number of turnovers as points.
Small sample size, though.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Lets hope the sample size stays really small. . .
Hopefully at the end of the year we are not posting " in the 23 games Tyreke had more turnovers then points the Kings won ______ times.
Ba-da
My observations from the top deck
-The Blazers arena scoreboard said we had 20 turn overs. You don’t win many games with that number.
- Our entry passes to the post were weak (and that’s being generous) and almost in the corner rather than on the block.
-Panic (see above comments from everyone)
-Jimmer is very nervous, a couple of times he almost forgot how to dribble. He passed up open 3’s that, if he made them, would have put us back into the game.
- Right now Thorton is our best player. From the end of last season carried over to this season.
- Isaiah is going to be very fun to watch. He was dribbling all over the court through their whole defense and tried a really crafty reverse that in college would have been easy points… And got blocked tough by either camby or Aldridge. He needs time to learn what shots will work and what shots wont at this level.
- Tyreke didn’t show up except to try and make the not top 10 with that behind the back pass to no one.
What really stood out to me was Jimmer is going to be good if he can get over his nerves. That through the lane fade away he hit shut the whole rose garden up. Isaiah will be a good rotation player once he figures out what he can and cant do. His speed is unbelievable and he has really good court vision.
Bummer they lost but I can’t help but being excited about this team because up until as far as the half the kings were in control of the game (excluding the last couple minutes of the 2nd). We have a very new, talented, and potentially good team. I hope they put it together sooner than later, but I’m optimistic.
by Merickel on Dec 28, 2011 12:29 PM PST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
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