Kings 98, Bulls 108: At Least We Know Our Weaknesses
by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2011 10:58 PM PST
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PrintThe Kings lost their second game in a row tonight to a very good Chicago Bulls team. Derrick Rose had 19 points and 8 assists and Carlos Boozer had 16 points and 15 rebounds. The Kings were led by Marcus Thornton (20 points) and Tyreke Evans (19 points) but couldn't pull out a win for several reasons.
Perhaps the most glaring weakness tonight was the lack of transition defense. The Bulls scored 33 points on the fast break, almost a third of their entire point total. A lot of this lay in the fact that we just didn't get back, or we gambled at inopportune times. Our halfcourt defense so far this year has actually been rather impressive, but the transition D has been putrid, and it really hurts our ability to get anything going on the other end as well, since easy buckets for the other team on one end early in the shot clock allows them to concentrate more on defense, which hurts our chances of scoring easily.
The other obvious weakness was our Free Throw shooting, a lowly 58.8% from the line despite getting 34 attempts. It's a bit odd as well since typically good Free Throw shooters are missing these shots. Tyreke Evans was the biggest culprit, hitting only 5-12. Marcus Thornton also missed both his attempts. Both those guys typically hit 75-80% of their shots. I don't foresee this being a long term problem, but it is frustrating.
The lack of cohesion and knowledge of each other's tendencies is also very evident in our offense. It seems clear that the team is trying to move the ball, but they often revert to old habits and dribble around too much searching for something to do. A lot of credit has to be given to the Bulls defense for their excellent rotations, but it's still frustrating to watch at times. For example, take Marcus Thornton. Marcus had a game high 17 shots tonight, which is fine out of context. The problem is that Marcus was having to create most of those shots himself, because he wasn't being found within the flow of the offense. This was particularly evident in the first half, when it seemed like we were getting flashbacks to the old John Salmons using up every possession while guys like Evans and Thornton weren't touching the ball. There also was a lot of standing around on offense. It got a little better in the second half, and I liked seeing Tyreke cut hard to the basket off-the-ball. He should be doing that often, it usually results in a bucket or a trip to the line.
Even with all that the Kings still had chances to win this game, but Chicago showed just why they are one of the best teams in the league, answering every Kings run with one of their own. The team got closest in the 3rd quarter when they cut the lead to only one point, but several bad decisions, both in shot selection and defensive lapses, and the Bulls were back up by 10 in a moments notice.
There were positives to take from this game though. DeMarcus Cousins had another double-double, and while his 4-16 from the floor doesn't look all that great, I still liked what I saw. He was taking it inside, and he just missed some easy shots. Jimmer Fredette had his best game so far (at least on the offensive end) and definitely looked more comfortable out there. The team also did great at drawing fouls and getting to the line, though not converting.
This is still a learning process, and I implore fans to be patient. This team is still trying to learn how to play together, and they're trying to do it all on the fly thanks to the lockout. Normally a team has a summer league for the young guys, a month of free agency, a few weeks of training camp, and a month or so of pre-season games. This year, that all takes place in just two weeks (and no summer league). It's kind of insane when you think about it, especially since the team is trying to play a new brand of basketball and is using so many new players in the rotation
New York comes in on Saturday. With a high octane offense that likes to get out and run, this will be a good test to see if the Kings have learned anything from their mistakes.
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Correct me if I'm wrong
but did Rose get more assists in this one game than our entire team has in the entire season?
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 29, 2011 11:02 PM PST reply actions
No but I think he got more than our guards combined
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
Most of our issues with getting assists are not because of the player holding the ball, but the lack of movement of the players not holding the ball.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Yeah the off the ball movement needs serious work
It was terrible in the first half, got better in the 2nd, but it’s something the guys really need to focus on.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
At least they have nowhere to go but up right!
(Not really, but this is the NBA where everything is overanalyzed and overdiscussed to death beyond compare.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yet...
Tyreke is averaging the same APG as Jimmer…
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Tyreke plays more minutes and handles the ball much more. He should have a higher APG....
Allan Iverson used to have a lot of assists. So what? Does that mean Iverson was looking to get his teammates involved? Tyrekes is a blackhole who rarely looks for others (and still seems incapable of driving to his left.)
by Kusian on Dec 30, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So would you trade Tyreke for DJ Augustin?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wouldn't surprise me
Earlier people wanted to trade Tyreke for Nicolas Batum
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
minus the 2nd best part of Christie's game: passing.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting stats:
we don’t have a player on the roster averaging more than 2.7 asst (so far this year) and the players with the best asst to t/o ratio are Hayes and Thompson. What’s up with that?
Everybody napg?
Purveyor of Bull Plop
by SayWhat? on Dec 30, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, leave me out of this!
"Where hope goes to die"
by napg on Dec 30, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How to teach transition defense: run your ass back to other side of the court guys!
How to teach free throw shooting: Watch Shaq and Dudley at the line and do the opposite.
Does anyone have some actual solutions to transition D and free throws?
Ba-da
Not unless anyone here is an actual coach
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 29, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I meant at least college level
Thought it was implied, I guess not.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 29, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
I do think conditioning is a huge factor in both.
If your legs are tired at the line it will show, and if you can’t keep up with a player that leaks out you’re going to get burned. Obviously its not the only factor for poor FT shooting and bad transition D.
Ba-da
I know how to improve free throw percentage, although it is a pretty novel idea.
It is called practice.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
I'm not so worried about free throw %
These guys should all get near their career averages by the time the season is done.
Not that we’ve got a bunch of Mark Price’s out there, but they won’t be this bad all season.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
It's a lot more mental than it is physical IMO.
Always will be. Some guys are just better at the Free Throw line than others and that isn’t changing in the future either.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Like Peja.
He’s just mentally clutch.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
by Juan Primo on Dec 30, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No doubt, Otis.
These guys should all get near their career averages by the time the season is done.
But a lot of good that is going to do when the season is done, other than get them ready for their season break.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
Well, if it's true that means there will be plenty of nights that the FT% is above average
Thus, giving them a better chance to win those games.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
And plenty of nights below average...thus giving them a better chance of losing those games.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
Me either
Its like you saying sometimes they will be great and sometimes poor and that it will average out. How does that work?
I was kinda making a joke with my last remark.
If there is an average – half the time you will be above, the other half below.
I think I see your point. As the season progresses, their FT shooting percentage will improve; however, they until it does, they risk losing games merely because of low free-throw shooting percentage, all things other factors being equal.
Had they spent some time over the break, working on their free throws, they would have come in stronger.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
How do you know they didn't practice their FT shooting?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't actually.
Hard for me to believe they could shoot FT’s so poorly if they had been practicing throughout the lockout. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe their FT percentage will go up substantially with future on court time.
The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses.
-Paul Westphal
In the famous words of AI...
Practice? Practice? We talkin bout practice? I’m supposed to be the key to the franchise, and we talkin bout practice? haha
by lilrecruit21 on Dec 30, 2011 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Tyreke looks especially out of shape. There were times that he was just walking up the court as DRose was in full transition. I think even DMC is looking like he is in better shape.
by lilrecruit21 on Dec 30, 2011 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
I wonder what sort of stuff they do in practice
Seems like something as simple as the first drill in this video, would help with two things.
Getting back on D, and passing back and forth on fast breaks till they get a wide open layup. Ball shouldn’t touch the floor.
Great hand-eye coordination.
Give him JT’s minutes.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
Obviously it's not
free throw shooting. 60%??? Shit, I could hit 60% and I’m almost 60!
Purveyor of Bull Plop
While you are playing a NBA game?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I can hit 80% at my school's gym
And I’m 18 and NaBasketballPlayer.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Dec 30, 2011 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah but you're a kid and you don't count for no real good reason other than just cuz I said so.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Conditioning is a huge factor
If you don’t get the board then you do indeed have to “get your ass back” as fast as you can, particularly the forwards and centers that aren’t really good on ball guys. Another thing that is effective is slowing down the ball, meaning having one defender (usually the point guard) turn the other guard at least once making him get the ball up slower and buying more time for the other players to get back.
Another thing that makes NBA transition in particular tough is the amount of great shooters, your secondary guys cant just run back to the paint in this league. They have the find the Kyle Korvers of the world and take away open perimeter looks as well. This is also where communication plays a role, if 2 guys are back then they better not both go to one area (3 point line or paint) or it leaves something else wide open. The guys running back still also have to communicate and take away reversals. The big theme again is…if your not back faster then the other team then your going to get scored on. You have to run back or your fucked.
Bad transition D
Practice and Sitting peoples asses down for failure.
FTs? Not much. They practice. Some guys are below their normal range, this will right itself over the course of the season. They are in a colder than normal spell right now. It will end.
We only have a couple of guys who shoot around 80%. Jimmer, Salmons , Cisco and that could be it. Otherwise a bunch of mid 70 shooters, except for Hayes, Outlaw, Cousins and Greene and I am sure Whiteside who are in the 60s. Low 70s is the best we can expect.
I didn’t look up stats so I may have missed some guys
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Thornton's consistently an 80% kind of guy
and Tyreke was 77% last year, about 75% his rookie year.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Is there any chance its just that they are tired?
Because a lot of their free throws are short. Especially Tyreke’s. I am hoping that as they get into game shape their free throw percentage will increase.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
I think its possible
Speaking from my experience as a workout junkie, no matter how good of shape you are in, a new workout is going to sap your energy for the first week. By next week their legs and body should be adjusted … should, not sure how taxing 3-4 games are week are.
They've got a b2b2b next week though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tue-Wed-Thurs.
@Memphis, @ Denver & Milwaukee @ PBP. It’s gonna be ugly for a first couple of weeks guys. That’s all I’m gonna say.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I"m not hopeful Steevo.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well.. If the problem is they are out of shape right now
This will help speed up the process
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
3-4 games a week, at the NBA level
Is going to be exhausting even for well-conditioned players. The only silver lining is that every team will be dealing with that same issue this season.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
Stop watching long shots go up and wondering if they'll go in
and get your ass back. That would be my solution.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We don’t need everyone chasing the O boards.
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
by kingme18 on Dec 30, 2011 6:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Westphal made that point in the post-game
Talking about guys crashing the glass that shouldn’t be.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I actually think that is exactly how to teach transition D and they couldn't figure out how to do that
MY NAME'S AL HARRINGTON, I GET BUCKETS
Said this in the last thread
I will say my piece as the honorary Section 214 representative –
My inlaws from Mexico bought tickets so I was trying to concentrate on speaking and understanding Spanish while watching the game and being drunk at the same time.
This team has many good pro level pieces but they just don’t quite fit together yet. There is too much individual effort and absolutely zero off the ball movement. It was easily contrasted against the Bulls as they had several back door cuts facilitated by great passes that led to easy baskets. I believe that the talent is there, but they just need more time to put it together.
Salmons should have never been brought back, in my opinion. He facilitates nothing and takes everything he can get. Jimmer looks talented, he just needs some time to put it together and become acclimated to talented teammates (something he’s never really had to deal with). Thorton’s a baller, he was the best player on the court for us. DMC would be out of this world if he had a decent backcourt player. Tyreke, while he’s great, seems to lack awareness with the ball in his hand. I think what the team is missing is a player with a skill to assess where to pass the ball to a teammate before he arrives at a predetermined space. There seems to be no foresight on this team.
by brianmc27 on Dec 29, 2011 11:10 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
jimmer
is confused, me thinks. he isn’t shooting it when he gets the ball and is open initially. he instead drives into traffic while everyone else just stands around and he has 0 open teammates to pass to.
by Brannigan's Law on Dec 29, 2011 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
If you could think of why this would be?
lack of confidence?
uncomfortable with offense?
I feel like those are both understandable given the circumstances. I also genuinely feel as if he really wants to help the team. It just translates into TOO much help. His heart is in the right place.
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 29, 2011 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
I think he is trying to avoid being known as a gunner
and will assert himself more as the season wears on
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
To me those goes back to poor offense as a team.
Horrible screens and when their was screens he would go the opposite way for a drive. Credit to Chicago on that though, their switches were making screens obsolete for us. Drive and dish to Jimmer. Screen and shoot Jimmer like Peja is where I see the bread and butter.
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 29, 2011 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
and he needs to learn Peja’s back cut when they are up on him too tight.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Kings can learn from Peja right now.
Is it the 1 on 1 offense that starts because people don’t move? Do they know how to move off the ball? sigh
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 30, 2011 12:21 AM PST up reply actions
they've been conditioned
having watched salmons in previous years and then evans, this team is used to a lot of spreading the floor and standing around w/ iso. if this team had rip hamilton, i swear he’d put up 40 a night (assuming somebody would pass him the ball). just someone with that nonstop motor.
by Brannigan's Law on Dec 30, 2011 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
Rip got 16 on 15 shots
I’ll take that on the D end every night.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:30 AM PST up reply actions
Thorton got 20 on 17 shots which is only slightly better
and Tyreke and Rose cancelled each other out with both going 7-14 for 19pts. Actually the Kings starters outscored the Bulls starters by 1 pt.
So, it looks like it was the 8 & 9th player in the rotation that did use in tonight. I guess we’ll have to work on running some plays for them during practice tomorrow.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
First, I don't know what your point is
Like I said, 16 on 15 is a win defensively, no matter what happened somewhere else on the other side of the ball.
And yes, if you can play a team as good as the Bulls even at most positions – then you’ve given youself a chance to win. That chance was lost on transition D and FTs. Period exclm pt.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 3:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No real point just highlighting some interesting stats
but if you want a point, I suggest that we did just as good of a job defending them as they did to us. And, they are one of the best defensive teams in the league.
It’s just that our lapses were bigger than theirs.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
We finally agree completely on something.
Plus we were lazier than fuck last night. And by we, I mean Evans and Cousins mostly.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You had me at
My inlaws from Mexico bought tickets so I was trying to concentrate on speaking and understanding Spanish while watching the game and being drunk at the same time.
"His D was a difference at the end."
by NewEraKings on Dec 29, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
100% agree with everything.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Rec'd before I finished
Salmons should have never been brought back, in my opinion. He facilitates nothing and takes everything he can get.
Thats all I needed to see to agree
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
I thought so at the time
but was at the game last night, and thought Salmons played fine. Was definitely not the biggest culprit in the stagnating offense, and seemed to play decent defense.
Stoudemire apparently sprained his ankle
Might not play Saturday.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I'd feel even better
if you told me that Salmons sprained his ankle.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 29, 2011 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 14 recs
They have a front line who can't shoot
I am interested to see how it all works out
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
unfortunately
I have to agree and rec this Section
by MichaelMack on Dec 29, 2011 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
While this is amusing...
…John Salmons isn’t the problem or the solution to this teams problem. I think we all know the solution and the answer to this team’s issues.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't.
But then again, I’m stuck in Honduras without a TV, so I’m kind of clueless. My gut says ’Reke.
"Where hope goes to die"
He's one solution and the most important one.
But he’s not the only problem or the solution required to fix what ails the Kings.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Then again, the smart-ass in me also suggests "the Kings."
"Where hope goes to die"
Ha.
Tyreke was just one problem last night. But he’s not the only problem really.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tyreke shot 50% from the field
and played good defense on Derrick Rose(when he was on him) and got 3 steals. He was no where near the problem last night
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
Thought he did a good job on Rose
my real problem with Tyreke last night was 1) missing 7 of 12 free throw attempts 2) not hitting his open teammate on a 3 on 1 break.
Transition D was terrible all-around, and part of that was Tyreke crashing the offensive glass instead of rotating back. However, he was definitely not the only one guilty of that.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
In half court.
What about transition?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
If you have a guy who can effectively guard Derrick Rose in transition
You have an All-Defensive team kind of guy. We don’t have that.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
On one hand yes
but last night was like playing with a guy in the penalty box.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
If you have a guy that swipes at the ball at halfcourt and then watches the rest of the play
You have a No-Defensive team guy there.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He was awful
along with 90% of our team. Chuck Hayes is considered a good defender around the league and even he wasn’t getting back on transition.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
In fairness, I think he is getting into game shape
He looked pretty pissed at himself during a few plays.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
If good defense is judged by staying in front of Derrick Rose..
..than everyone in the NBA has failed at their assignment.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
True but overstepping on fakes almost everytime…Put Isaidh in there..At least he’s got the speed to try to keep up
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
He cut off Rose plenty of times.
But Rose is not a guy you can stop all the time anyway.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Tyreke was also bad at fighting through screens
and the person guarding the screener wasnt covering for him. Not all Tyreke’s fault, though.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep this is true.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No Tyreke was one of the problems.
Tyreke isn’t the only problem and he’ll be talked about is if he is the biggest problem today, but that isn’t to say Tyreke wasn’t one of the major offenders in transition defense.
The others? Cousins, Fredette and Hickson. Hayes, Outlaw, Salmons and Thornton repeatedly attempted to get back into the play while they were playing.
I’m watching mostly for transition defense here and trust me when I say this: Those 4 (Evans, Hickson, Fredette and Cousins) are just not getting back in ways they need to.
That doesn’t mean that Tyreke didn’t frustrate me last night or that trading him for Steve Nash will be the answer because it won’t be. To say that Evans isn’t one of the problems is wrong though. This is a complicated murky situation, and the solutions will take some solutions that players like Tyreke now find difficult to accept. If they dont’ accept it though, the Kings are in trouble.
I guess at this point that’s the only question that remains with this team: Will the players on this team, starting with Tyreke, do what it takes to win games at the NBA level consistently?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you're talking about transition D
then I agree, the entire team was absolutely unacceptably awful at it
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
Especially Tyreke.
He didn’t even make it past half-court most of the time. He settled for swiping at the ball and stopping and watching.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
would love to have recorded the game
because I don’t recall him in particular sticking out on the crappy transition d (there was a lot of crap to go around)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
I don't have a good memory
but I remember screaming “AGAIN?!” the second time it happened.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
As a complete sidenote
somebody here at StR needs to pay up for Synergy
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
TZ is the only one I know who has it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know last year (perhaps the year before actually)
that Synergy gave it to a bunch of bloggers for free but yeah it would be nice to have specific possessions.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Two times at least he went for improbable steals
that left him way behind the play and led to an easy 2 or 3.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Not the whole team Heuristic.
There were 4 major offenders: Evans, Fredette, Cousins and Hickson. Of those 4, only Jimmer is the least culpable only because he is a rookie for no other reason. The other 3 have no excuses. They were terrible.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'll try to pay more attention to this on the NYE game
But I’m sure there were more than a few times that even players like Salmons and Thornton didn’t run back as well. I don’t think any of them are free 100% of guilt
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
I'm rewatching the game from last night.
I’m looking at it possession by possession. Trust me, I know who the offenders are. Tyreke was a major offender, but he’s not alone by any stretch.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Cousins is allowed to stay while going for OREBs
Maybe Hickson too, depending on his position on the court. But there are no excuses for guards and wings not hustling back for transition D.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
absolutely none
The was a lot of Ball watching from the Kings that led them to getting beat down the court.
That can happen, but how does it keep happening so many times in one game?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Not hustling back is not the same thing as being behind the play.
Cousins’ mistakes were just as egregious in this regard as Evans’ were. I don’t care whether you are a big or not you should hustle back to get into the play. Hayes did it. Thompson did it. Hickson and Cousins did not consistently.
No excuses.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This.
When he sees the opponent pass the half court line, he just gives up.
One thing though – I know for a fact that if he just gave it his all in transition D, he is great at it. Remember last time when he had a couple of blocks because he just wouldn’t give up?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Just making the Bulls run halfcourt offense would have helped.
Had Tyreke not swiped at the ball several times the Kings could have forced a much tougher possession for the Bulls than they received.
The Kings bailed out the Bulls big time last night.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And I mean in all ways.
Not just transition defense. They mentally blow it on so many things across the board it’s incredible.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
yeah it was just a dumb game
just all kinds of dumb. I honestly felt like I was watching a phenominally athlete high school team
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
That's why I think defensive stats
like blocks and steals are overrated. Every time you try to swipe a ball, that’s a gamble. Blocking the ball out of bounds? Giving them another chance. Now if they block it Bill Russell style – leading to transition offense, I’m fine with that.
If they just play defense, the “right” defense (staying in front of your man, rotations, drawing offensive fouls, hands up, and etc…) then there was no way we were blown out by that much.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
How are steals overrated?
They give you the possession. Is it because you can be a bad defender but still get steals by gambling and leaving your team vulnerable?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
A successful steal isn't overrated
It’s all the unsuccessful attempts that lead to easy baskets, that is the problem. A player may get a couple of steals a game—and that’s fine—but how many times did said player lose his man with this gambling defense?
I love a balloon!
-George Carlin
by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Dec 30, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Didn't clarify that on my part.
They do give you the possession.
But how many times do you have to gamble to get those steals?
On what you said though, you are definitely on point to what I am thinking.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Phenomenal athlete High School team.
Perfect description. Lots of dumb on 2 ends repeatedly by your “best” young players.
That’s the real issue. Evans and Cousins immaturity badly showed last night.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Those 4 (Evans, Hickson, Fredette and Cousins) are just not getting back in ways they need to.
What disappointed me was that Jimmer doesn’t even try to get in the way of the opponent in the fast break. He’s like a bull fighter, Ole!
Too many bad habits from college
Now that he’s not the number 1, 2 and 3rd option, he actually can use those foul thingys he’s heard about. He did a good job last night, but he doesn’t need to worry about foul trouble, so hack away when the time is right!
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
- Yogi Berra
by Ratatat on Dec 30, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He couldn't take any fouls in college
He needs to figure out who/when it’s worth it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
That's what you call
Matador defense. Let the opponent through and hope for the best!
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
He kind of sucks, Pookey
Which is an even more accurate statement when I remove the “kind of” part.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
Well he didn't cost this team the game last night with laziness.
Evans, Fredette, Cousins and Hickson did.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
+1
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Was stuck behind a bunch of obnoxious bulls fans
So not always the clearest view. But I am going to dissent here and suggest defense was not what lost us the game. Many, many of those fast break points were caused by a complete and total lack of ball movement. PW alluded to this in his post came comments.
We can absolutely play better d. But we lost because of poor freethrow shooting and lack of ball movement. Way too many desperation shots IMO. Oh, and the fact that the bulls are a better team with more experience.
Jimmers d was not outstanding. But it was not obviously worse than the rest of the team.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Dec 30, 2011 11:43 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I meant to clarify this.
Jimmer and Hickson I’ll back off (although both made ridiculously glaring errors—Hickson more so) are not the real issue. I’ll chalk this up to “shit happens” and let it go.
Cousins’ and Evans’ immaturity and incomplete commitment is the biggest issue that cost this team the victory last night.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But transition defense was a huge factor in the commitment department..
…and the ball movement is what it is. That comes down to commitment IMO.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
agreed
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Dec 30, 2011 12:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So Outlaw can play more?
No thanks….
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
That's cold.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
The view from way up in Section 206
We still need a point guard. Right now, I’d be willing to trade Tyreke for the best we can get.
I think DMC was surprised to find he could simply dominate Noah in the low post. And then decided to start taking jump shots. smh.
Foul shooting, ball movement and distribution, transition D all need much work. Halfcourt D looked good at times. So far I’m liking Westphal’s in-game adjustments, though he’s still too slow to react at times. Hayes and Hickson are keepers, and JT will never be a quality NBA power forward.
This was a very winnable game for us, but we didn’t play smart enough to win, even with DRose and Noah on the bench for long stretches.
Jimmer needs to stay the heck out of the lane and look to pass more. And Salmons at the three is like old fish; the smell wafted all the way up to where we were sitting.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
by sj60615 on Dec 29, 2011 11:34 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't say far greater
And I’m not sure either is a viable long-term solution, but JT just seems to play nervous. His defense is better than Hickson’s, but I just like JJ’s energy better. I would be happy to be wrong about this.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
The coaches currently agree with you
I am not convinced which of the 2 is better
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Jt’s Def, rebounding , energy and overall health are better then Hicksons. JT’s got the body to play both PF and C, and we don’t need JT putting tons of points in..Getting rebounds and putbacks like he has been doing more of and that occasional jumper is what we really need from him when you got tons of other scorers on the floor..Chuck does need to teach him how to set a screen though…Oh his screens are ugly!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
JT fits into the offense better too because of his jumper
Every time JJ got the ball on the high post, Chicago backed off him and covered passing lanes. It was obvious he wasnt gonna take that jumper.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
JT had zero rebounds until he got 2 gimmees in the last minute
And zero points other than a gimmee dunk off beautiful Jimmer dish. He launched a 12 foot shot 15 feet. How does a player fit well into the offense when he has no reliable offense?
His rebounding overrated too. Two games in a row teams are getting second chances when he is on the floor. When he went 4 for 4 vs. Portland the same time he could not clear defensive glass and we lost our 12 point lead.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
+1
I have always been a JT supporter, but I am really getting fed up with him.
He is atrocious.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
JT's advanced numbers actually look the best on the entire team IMO
Obviously, in limited minutes. But he’s not nearly the issue right now.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Yep.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No thard to get boxed out when Chicago’s big men were allowed to stand in the paint 5-8 seconds on defense. I was regularly counting 4-5 seconds on Noah and Boozer consistently throughout the whole game without checking out
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
They can stand in there if guarding someone...
…they just cant camp in there not guarding anyone.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Sacramento Kings have NaPG
Except for Thomas. I agree we should trade Evans for the best point guard we can get. Let’s throw in Thomas to sweeten the deal – since his stats from the last few years look good. He llooked weak out there tonite – poor shot selection and not boxing out for rebounds – I truly believe most coaches in the league would not even be playing him because he is visibly not in tune with the game. Agree with you about Salmons as well – he is stagnating the offensive flow.
Our assist totals for the last two games are what we should be averaging every game. We need an experienced floor general.
by convoy on Dec 29, 2011 11:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
A revised depth chart after trading Tyreke for a TruePG
TruePG – IT
MT23 – Jimmer
Salmons (sigh) – Cisco – Outlaw – Greene – Honeycutt
DMC – JJ
Hayes – JT
Tonight it just seemed like Tyreke, Thornton and Jimmer were all trying to play the same position, with limited success.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
Yes
Trading Tyreke would cause a lot of heads to roll, but let’s be honest with ourselves here – we’ve seen the same thing nite after nite from him – his decision making is not improving at the point. I truly believe Tyrekes talent is maxed-out, yet only time will tell.
As far as the 2-spot, MT23, is as-of-now emerging as the better of the two, at least confidence-wise. Hint, confidence wins games.
by convoy on Dec 30, 2011 12:36 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
He's taking too long to reach his full potential, but he's not maxed out
Tyreke has gotten to this level of basketball based on raw talent. His basketball I.Q. just needs to vastly improve & he needs to run the team and focus on being the best passer on the team, setting everyone up for buckets. He’s got a perfect group of players to help get going if he would just focus on doing so instead of always trying to score. He also looks to be way too slow of a shooter, which I think is his problem with shooting. Just doesn’t look like a strong shot. His shot selection isn’t the best either. But I believe he’s worth sticking with for the long term. The reward will be worth it. He’s only 22.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I think Tyreke's just really dumb
But really talented at basketball. For example, he got a steal last night, had a 3 on 1 fast break with Jimmer and Thorton, and he decides to take the shot himself and miss the shot, then miss a free throw. He had Jimmer open for a layup and Thorton for an open mid range. I also think Tyreke is very predictable. It seems like when he drives in you can always tell if he is determined to pass or shoot. He doesn’t play what the offense gives him like a real pg.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
I've been a Tyreke defender...
… however, that 3 on 1 break where he decided to take it himself rather than dish it to one of his teammates for an easy look even had me shouting “WTF Tyreke?” and drew several jeers of “you suck Tyreke” from people in my section.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
I truly believe most coaches in the league would not even be playing him because he is visibly not in tune with the game.
I disagree. In fact, I’m struggling to think of a team where he wouldn’t get minutes.
I love a balloon!
-George Carlin
by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Dec 30, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Frustration is a beautiful thing.
Except when NBA players exhibit it. Then they are mentally weak. Yanno?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Terrible advice on Jimmer
or for any guard. Jimmer had 14 points on 10 shots in 24 minutes. What do you want a rookie to do?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:32 AM PST up reply actions
If Jimmer's going to be our main distributor
I would like to see him distribute much better than we saw last night. Several times (three according to the boxscore) he dribbled into the paint only to find himself swarmed by much bigger defenders (often 2 or 3) and then it resulted in a turnover. He needs to learn to pass while moving if he’s going to be a PG and not a SG.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
true
But that will come. Rookie guards are not used to how hard it is to drive to the hoop in the nba. With his shooting touch I would be happy to see him launch all night.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Dec 30, 2011 11:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
First of all:
Lets give a lot of credit to the Bulls. They are not exactly pushovers. They gave the Kings fits with their transition basketball. Their defense is one of the best in the NBA and they know how to pass the ball, get open and finish. On the other hand, the Kings transitional defense was absent, passing was none existent and as far as creating and getting open, for-get-about-it. Free throws??? I’m not sure what type of offense they are now running but if the 3’s aren’t falling nothing seems to work. It’s only 3 games and I hope they work it out and play a little more like a team and forget the 1 on 1, dribble, dribble type game.
by Bill2 on Dec 29, 2011 11:35 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
Agree to the fullest
If the team doesn’ t become solid at passing and creating opportunites for teammates to score, it’s gonna be a frustrating season. The Bulls are one of the best teams in the league & played very well tonight, yet the Kings would have won this game if they just play better all around. Really goes to show how good this team’s talent is. We can hang with anyone in this league. This team is good enough to make the playoffs and should.
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
Well....
I’m pretty sure every team had the same offseason…. So that’s a very poor excuse.
There’s many reasons to think this team can be successful and be a solid team in the near future. But then there is also many examples of why this rebuilding process could possibly never grow into fruition with the current owners, coaching staff, and GM (or some mixture of).
Why does Westphal leave in the same lineup for extended periods of time while being ineffective? I don’t want to see our guys learn while being beat up and down the court, I want to see us be competitive THAT night and try what it takes to do so.
Why does management think Salmons and Fredette are going to make a big difference? We sorely need leadership, Salmons has little emotion and is there to collect a check. We need a real PG, Fredette is a good shooting threat but a guy like Kemba could actually run an offense.
All in all our offseason, at first glance, was actually ok to me. But now I’m realizing with our “motivated” owners and cap room flexibility, we made anything but a splash or a step forward.
I know we are in Sac and don’t have the most attractive market…. But players want to play for winners. When I look at our coaching staff and our roster, sadly that’s hardly what I see.
by IBleedPurpleandBlack on Dec 29, 2011 11:39 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Mind you....
I’m in a bad mood after those bad losses
by IBleedPurpleandBlack on Dec 29, 2011 11:43 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I agree for the most part, but if players want to play for winners
why isn’t Deron Williams requesting a trade to the Magic?
I would disagree with you
I’m pretty sure every team had the same offseason…. So that’s a very poor excuse.
While it is true that every team had the same, shortened offseason, you can’t expect it to have impacted every team the same. Chicago returned largely the same team from last year. They waived Bogans, lost Kurt Thomas, and “lost” Rasual Butler. They brought in a new starter, Rip, who has to learn a new system but is still a pro and a significant position upgrade for the Bulls.
The Kings on the other hand, returned a team that was already very young. The Kings are relying on a roster with almost no experience playing together. Reke, Thornton and Cousins were together for, what, 7 games last season? The Kings are giving significant minutes to Salmons, Hayes, Jimmer, Thomas, Hickson, and Outlaw, none of whom were with this team last season.
The Bulls, and other teams in the league who are returning nearly-identical rosters, have a huge advantage over teams that are young and inexperienced playing together. It is not a cop out, but it is a reasonable explanation.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Dec 30, 2011 6:59 AM PST up reply actions 13 recs
Perfect and precise.
Rec’d G.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Then again the Hornets turned over their roster
Traded their superstar, and their 2-0, including win over Celtics. And they didn’t trade CP3 before camp. It was well under way. The Hornets had no time to prepare.
What do the Hornets have that the Kings don’t? Not more talent, but a great coach in Monty Williams.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I would argue
The win over the Celtics by New Orleans was similar to the Kings beating the Lakers. Both Boston and LA are aging and have lost a lot of depth, and both were missing key players (Bynum for LA, Pierce for Boston).
New Orleans’ other win was against the Suns. I’m fairly confident that the Kings are capable of beating the Suns this year.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Dec 30, 2011 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
more impressed by New Orleans
only because I personally thought the Lakers were playing pretty putrid on D.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
But it’s not like Boston has been playing particularly well to start the season.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
What the heck has happened to Rondo?
I haven’t seen a stat whore like that since a young Zach Randolph.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
great player (and certaintly like him more than a young Randolph)
but the guy is clearly and blatantly trying to pad his stats out there
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
True....
The your Bulls example is spot on, but there was plenty of player movement this offseason. A lot of teams have newcomers who are getting big minutes.
We could very easily be 0-3, our Gymmer sixth man had a big part in the win over the Lakers. Problem is, we need to have that sixth man advantage every game…. Without another key piece (Kirilenko or Crawford would’ve at least gave us something, and an amnesty) who knows if that arena will show up to give us that edge. I will…. But history shows Sac dislikes losing (and the Maloofs).
by IBleedPurpleandBlack on Dec 30, 2011 12:09 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
He had his share of dumb shots
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Dec 29, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
His shots were definitly not "Good Shots"
There were some where I was thinking, “That’s terrible shot selection right the.. and it went in, Good Job Marcus”
He's the only one who seems to care most of the time...
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
- Yogi Berra
Can someone please explain
Why the hell we signed Travis Outlaw? I mean i’m not saying he’s the reason why we lossed or anything but… can the guy do anything? Anything at all? He can’t hit the open 3, his defense is deceptively bad and he’s very weak physically. Every time I see him on the court I just get really pissed. And it doesn’t make sense that PW has moved him ahead of Cisco in the rotation. Still better than Donte though.
by SoCal Diplomat on Dec 29, 2011 11:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions
At the time I believe we were still under the minimum salary level
And I’m surprised to find that I agree with you about Cisco being a better fit than Outlaw for those minutes.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
That's a poor excuse
and the coaching staff must be running out of reasons for giving him minutes as well. As ScD said, he has done literally nothing in his minutes on the court.
But no. he isn’t the reason we lost.
The reason(s) we lost was transition D (let’s all stand and watch that shot go up and wonder what will happen next!)
and of course, FTs. I can hear myself on TV telling the team “The Free throw shooting is taking years off my life!”
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:37 AM PST up reply actions
I am done with Westphal
He has had three years to create an offense for this team to run. He has failed terribly.
He has only created excuse after excuse for the team’s performance:
1. We are a young team. Yes, well so are the T-wolves, the Cavs, the Thunder, but they have actual systems to run. They have actual offenses that are making sense. The Kings play one on one across the court.
2. This is a short off-season. Sure, but every team had to deal with that, not just the Kings. What about last off-season? That sure was a normal one, yet we still had no sign of an offense back then. It is the same as the previous two years… no offense.
3. We have new players. So do the Blazers. They have, what, three new starters? They seem to have an idea of what to do.
Many might say “changing a coach mid-season is a terrible idea, it strips the players of a system or stability, especially during this loaded season!” Well guess what, we don’t have any system at the moment. Players aren’t moving off the ball, there seem to be no plays whatsoever. It looks like five players playing for themselves out there, not as a team unit.
No other options right now? I honestly believe Keith Smart could be an answer for us right now. The man coached the Warriors to a 36-46 record last year. Which were 10 wins more than the previous season. I honestly believe that team had less talent than we do. Ownership changed and they wanted their own guy in there which explains Smart’s dismissal.
If not Smart, what about Sam Mitchell (who brought a rebuilding team to the playoffs, but got fired for a 8-9 start one season), or even JVG?
1. I may be wrong, but I think only one player in the current rotation remains from Westphal’s first season (Tyreke). It is sorta a new team this season so give them more than three games.
2. Have a very good ISO offense … 98 points against the Bulls but right now lacking a lot of details.
3. The Blazers key players are vets, the Kings key players hit drinking age last year.
Smart is already on the Kings bench, he can help now.
by bignerd on Dec 30, 2011 1:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Please explain to me
What actual offensive systems Cle, OKC, and Min run, and how they make sense.
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 7:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm done with Westphal from this standpoint
I just don’t the Kings will ever improve on defense with him as their coach. Defense reflects your coach, like Chicago and Thibs, and I just don’t think Westphal either cares about defense or knows how to coach it.
Strangely enough
That’s the area they have improved during his tenure. Here’s the team’s defensive rating (points given up per 100 possessions) the last few years:
Current: 109.1 (24th in league)
2010-2011: 109.0 (20th in league)
2009-2010: 109.9 (20th in league)
2008-2009: 114.7 (30th in league – last year of Theus/Natt debacle)
We’ll see what this season brings, but I’ve been far more disappointed with the team’s offense.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Wrong. You need defensive players.
Adelman was always knocked for not being a defensive coach. All of a sudden you add Christie Pollard and Jim Jackson and the team is suddenly Top-2 in the NBA in defense.
Strange.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
By DRtg...
..the Kings improved dramatically during the lockout season with Webber and Divac.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Our offense was fine.
Our defense wasn’t.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Both were problematic in their own way.
Trust me, I’m rewatching the game by possession. It’s a lot uglier than a lot of people want to admit.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Half court defense was pretty good. Held DRose to 17 pts 8 ast.
But transition D was so atrocious. And all of that has to do with the wings not rotating after we shot the ball.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
No the transition D was terrible by number of players.
Evans, Jimmer, Hickson and Cousins especially.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think
we are three games into this season. Far too early to talk about trading one of our best players or firing our coach. Let this team figure out who they are and then we can evaluate our pieces.
Two games ago we were on our way to hanging a new banner in the arena.
Chill.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
by Jim Les on Dec 30, 2011 12:09 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
This is Westphal's third season
And somehow, he managed to coach us from a 25 win season his first year to a 24 win season his second year. The problems of his system (or lack thereof) are all still there. Our young pieces aren’t developing or growing smarter under his guidance. If not now, then when? Waste another year of development?
by omikron on Dec 30, 2011 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for the insight
I’m glad that you’re capable of adding something to a conversation other than a meme image. How about we give Westphal another three years and hope for the best.
by omikron on Dec 30, 2011 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry
I just want to wait to judge the team a little longer then a road loss to a playoff team, and a loss to a team that had the best record last year and the reigning MVP. Continue..
by elSAVinator on Dec 30, 2011 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
I understand that they are good teams
But why do you think they are such good teams? They have solid coaching and a lot of talent. They have a system that the players know and play within. The Kings lack that. We have a lot of depth and a lot of talent, but we are playing without any sense of what is going on, and at least for me, that seems evident when watching the game.
Both of those teams have a number of veterans though
We have a very young squad with a lot of new pieces. Those teams have played together for awhile, we haven’t.
by elSAVinator on Dec 30, 2011 12:37 AM PST up reply actions
Looking at what we aren't to understand where we are not.
I see what you did there.
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 30, 2011 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I need a flow-chart to understand this.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Uhh... Sorry no speaka no english
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 30, 2011 12:44 AM PST up reply actions
I think your English is fine.
You just speak it like Yoda.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Not 3 games into a season.
Our young pieces aren’t developing or growing smarter under his guidance
Young pieces whom we have not yet had a chance to see if they develop under his tutelage include: Cousins, Jimmer, Thomas, Honeycutt, Whiteside, Thornton, and Hickson. This makes up a pretty large piece of our team.
If not now, then when? Waste another year of development?
I would say not three games into a season. Right now we have a better record than the defending champs, and the Celtics. I would say that is a pretty good indicator that we are still too early in the season to make trade and fire decisions.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Well
I haven’t recommended trading any players. I actually think we DO have a lot of talent. I just think we need a coach who can define roles for the players and install an offense that actually makes sense.
Ya PW should know the new guys roles by now
He’s had Jimmer and Salmons for a month now, Outlaw and Hayes for 2 weeks. Lets go already PW!! I can’t argue the fact that running some actual plays would be nice though…
by elSAVinator on Dec 30, 2011 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
Outlaw, Salmons and Hayes have been in the league for years
Shouldn’t a professional coach do… I don’t know, some homework and watch a little bit of the many, MANY years of game tape available on those three players to know their strengths/weaknesses and how they might fit into an offense?
Sure, Jimmer and the other rookies are unknown commodities in the NBA, but he should know the veterans at least.
The flaw in your reasoning
Plays are not being run equals plays are not being taught/called.
That is a huge assumption to make. And based on PWs experience and frustration post game, a fairly baseless one.
I know it sounds like a broken record, but you have the youngest team in the nba and a bunch of players who have not played together. There is no coach in or out of the NBA who could have this group clicking this early.
This is the problem with fans expecting too much. We are not a playoff team yet. Stop whining about what we are doing wrong and enjoy what we are improving on.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Dec 30, 2011 12:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Gotcha'
I haven’t recommended trading any players.
I see that now when I go back and read the comments, I guess I was reacting to multiple comments, and not just yours.
To be clear, I am not saying that Westphal does not suck at his job; he very well may. I’d argue that until now (and maybe still?) he has been given a sub-par talent to work with and it is hard to evaluate him on what he has been able to do with that “talent.” Your point that he has not defined roles well or installed an recognizable offense is valid. I think he is trying to do both those things right now…on the fly. I say give him time.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
no excuse
The very obvious difference between the teams last night was one squad clearly had a purpose on offense as a team. The other seemed to be a collection of players on the same team that ran an ad hoc offense with no consistent structure.
Theres no excuse for consistently NOT running plays…there were several glaring times in critical possessions when clearly there wasn’t a specific play called - or if it was called it was “go one on one and try to score”. This fundamentally wastes possessions and grows frustration amongst a young team.
Westphal very clearly doesn’t seem to have a strong structure in place, or its not being executed - this isn’t the first year this has been the case.
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Dec 30, 2011 7:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
This
Must remember!
repeat 15 times in head
takes deep breath
(still crying inside)
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 30, 2011 12:14 AM PST up reply actions
We are three games into a season and have played against 3 playoff teams.
These trade tyreke talks, blow up the team, trade everyone but Cousins people are flat out insane. Last night we played probably either the first or second best defense in the league, a team that had the most wins in the league a season before and hung with them the entire game. The night before that we got blown out against another great defensive team. The other night we won by 9 against a team that most have going very high in the western conference.
The team is fine, they are still working at meshing together. The team has played a combined total of 144 minutes together. The team has gone up against a Bulls and Lakers team that has played multiple seasons together and aren’t affected by the shortened training camps like a team like the Kings are
Calm down people, it’s still VERY early in this shortened offseason season. Our core players are still VERY young. Come back to me in 30 games with the chicken little antics about certain players and how our team isn’t progressing and I might take you seriously
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 9 recs
We agree 100% here Heuristic.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think the team is far from fine
and yet I still agree
(could care less if Westphal goes sooner than later though)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
I think you let Westphal play out the season
If you don’t see big improvements from last season, you let him walk at the end of his contract.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
meh
he hasn’t earned it. I honestly don’t care either way. It’s not exactly like I would be excited for Smart either.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
That's sort of my point
So we get rid of Westphal right now, that leaves us with Smart and Bobby Jackson. I don’t think we’d be any better off
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know, but I don't think we'd be better off
if that answers your question, lol.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
That's another reason why I don't want Westphal fired
The Kings probably aren’t better off with Smart or Jackson as the coach.
We hung with the Bulls?
I got the feeling they were toying with us. Anytime we got close, they pretty easily ran out the score.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I got the feeling Rose was toying with Jimmer...for sure.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Fire Bobby Jackson!
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
and hung with them the entire game
Were you watching the same game that I was?
MY NAME'S AL HARRINGTON, I GET BUCKETS
we did claw back and stayed with them
we didn’t get beat up too badly like we did against portland.
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Dec 30, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
If it wasn't for the first quarter(Where we were shooting a wopping 6% halfway through it)
The quarter break downs were
1st
Chi: 30
Sac: 24
2nd
Chi: 30
Sac: 29
3rd
Chi: 25
Sac: 22
4th
Chi: 23
Sac: 23
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
Not impressed
Having watched the game, I don’t think we ever really threatened Chicago (a team that’s starting it’s season on a west coast swing, by the way).
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Agreed. It never felt like we were close.
Our defense—transition and half-court—was just too poor, and their offense was too good. Even with Noah and Rose in foul trouble (combined 56 minutes), Chicago constantly got open looks.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
It felt more like Chicago was pressing the accelerator then coasting for a while
And kept repeating that as time went on.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Chicago legitimately struggled with the Kings matchup problems.....
…at times after re-watching the game this morning and doing a play by play of it. Really, I’m not going to toot this horn too much, but Chicago’s problem stemmed from A) they had a b2b tonight with the Clippers to think about and B) foul trouble to Noah and Rose all night.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was impressed we showed some fight in the 4th quarter.
Didnt do enough to win it, but we showed fight. This early in the season, that is a good sign.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
As much of a critic of Paul Westphal as I am, it is not time to fire him. Yet.
Tyreke needs to get his fat butt into shape. DeMarcus needs to get in better shape. Chuck Hayes is a good player, but looks like the Michelon blimp out there. Do some cardio, man.
People flip out when I say Reke is heavy, but it is true. Look at what Derrick Rose can do on the court. He has no body fat. Carl Landry came into camp last year 10 pounds chunky, and his season was disastrous, when he could have been an 18 and 8 player.
Now Carl looks ripped to start this season, exploding to the rim, and he is averaging 17 points and 9 boards.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
by bench_blob on Dec 30, 2011 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The sad part...
The sad part is that these are professional athletes, whose main job is to be in shape, and practice their sport. There really is no excuse to not be in great shape. That is what separates the greats from the rest, the perseverance to put in the work it takes to get into shape and the repetition to have the skills necessary.
I don't know what people are freakin' out about.
I didn’t expect a win tonight. Chicago is a true championship contender.
Sure we had problems. But I thought we fought pretty darn hard. I thought Cousins really asserted himself in this game, and hope we see more of that. Jimmer looked a little more comfortable with his shot tonight, thats a plus. Marcus showed his consistently high confidence, and backed it up. And Tyreke made a lot of nice plays at the rim.
But most importantly: I am happy to see the team taking many, many, many shots at the rim! I love to see so many high percentage shots (even if we missed a few, they will start to fall).
The Portland loss was ugly. This loss was better than expected.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
The freaking out comes from how winable this game was!
Take away the context. You ask me before the game if I had to choose who wins, King or Bulls. I say Bulls. You watch the game, I say we could’ve won.
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
by Zuriel Smith on Dec 30, 2011 12:27 AM PST up reply actions
Absolutely true
reasonable transistion D and a respectable 75% from the line and it’s a one possession game at the end.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:41 AM PST up reply actions
We're just pissed because we could have won that game.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
How long before Jimmer, Thornton and Reke start together?
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
by Jim Les on Dec 30, 2011 1:05 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
From what I've seen
Jimmer – PG (by default since he appears the most willing to pass and has decent court vision)
Thornton- SG (can flat out play this position and score points)
Reke- SF (need to find a way to have such an effective scorer in the lineup, and maybe it would
also work to start Evans at SG and bring Thornton in as a great 6th man)
Hayes- PF (actually a pretty effective big man and good size down the middle)
Cousins- C (very good at the position and probably one of the best on the team)
I don’t know as much about the team as others, so feel free to correct me if I erred.
You aren't Mr Ailene Voisin are you?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
agree
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Dec 30, 2011 12:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where's the ball movement?
Against the Lakers the entire team was in a constant flow. We had an actual offense.
The last 1 1/2 games we seem to have forgotten how to move and have settled for the least effective offense scheme the dreaded “iso”.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
I thought at the end of the 1st and beginning of the 2nd,
when the Kings went on a 9-0 run to cut the 15 pt Bulls lead down to 6, there was more ball movement. It also coincided with Jimmer entering the game.
The last 2 games the opponent has doubled the ball anytime we try to send a big out to set a screen. Early in the game, Tyreke wasn’t waiting for Hayes to even stop. He wasn’t using the screen and ended up driving into his own man and Hayes man, and almost never cut back around the screen Hayes was setting. Jimmer is almost always doubled the minute he starts to dribble, and he’s just beginning to find his way out of the double team. This is stagnating the offensive flow, which forces Salmons and Thornton to try and get a shot off the dribble even if contested.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Jimmer showed signs of finding solutions out of those double teams.
One of the solutions he can and pobably will discard is passing it to JT while JT has a man on him of any defensive talent at all.
But at least JT came over to help !
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:43 AM PST up reply actions
Let me say what some others have said:
I didn’t expect this would be a win going in. What was frustrating is that it turned out in fact to be VERY winnable with some reasonable transition D (where we gave up what – 34 pts?) and 75% from the Ft line. Not unrealistic expectations.
That is what is burning my ass.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:48 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
All that said, from the postgame press conf.
It seemed like PW held the team accountable. We’ll see what dividends that may sow.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:50 AM PST up reply actions
Well, we'll see
A press conference is just a press conference. He’s such a nice guy, I wonder if he’s less comfortable getting in their grills in person than he is through the media.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Keen insight here
Think you are correct about this. Westphal seems to be a “smoother” aka “can’t we all just get along?”. What this team needs is an ass-kicker of a coach who can demonstrate that there will be consequences for players who don’t follow the offensive play calls. What was up with sitting Isaiah Thomas the whole game – He’s got skills.
by convoy on Dec 30, 2011 9:03 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
^
Ok Isaiah did play. I missed the first half and his ESPN box score shows Zero minutes.
by convoy on Dec 30, 2011 9:08 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
IT only played the last 23 seconds of a quarter
and never made it back into the game.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
From what Ive seen there are 2 ways a coach can get a message to his team...
Either in person behind closed doors, or through the media.
Most coaches go behind closed doors first, then if it doesnt work, say something through the media. I was actually really happy that PW vented a little in the post game presser. It was the first time in 3 years he looked like he cared that the team lost.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Any links to PW's post game presser?
Haven’t seen the whole thing, just small clips, but I’m curious to see it in full if that’s available.
Where was his anger in real time? There’s a time to sit there stoically on the sidelines, then there’s a time to chew on people’s asses when they’re not getting it done. I don’t see much of the latter from PW, even when it’s warranted (like getting beaten down court for a layup after a made bucket at your own end). Contrast that with Popovich, who called an an angry timeout late in a game he was winning by 20+ points to chew on his players after a couple of lazy/sloppy possessions. Or the “Zen Master” angrily walking on court during a time out and getting in three of his guys faces about sprinting back on defense.
I’m not saying he needs to go in to a roid rage every time something negative happens out there, but I do think there is a time and place for calling guys out in real time when they’re not getting it done. PW seems unwilling or unable to do this.
It seems like nobody is telling the players what they are doing wrong
during the game. If that’s true that is really really bad
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 30, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
We talked about that on our trip back home
The free throw shooting is just plain atrocious. Especially Tyreke.
I enjoyed the game
I thought the offensive flow early on was poor, but Jimmer brought some excitement at the end of the 1st. I thought PW did a good job with his rotations and particularly like the insertion of IT and Greene just prior to the end of the quarter when they ran the fast break ending with Donte’s layup.
There were some excellent defensive rotations in the 2nd half.
On the fast break points by the Bulls and the failure of the Kings to get back quick enough. One of my complaints about the Kings using a big in the high post or above the FT line is that he is in the best position to get back on defense. But there is no way that Chuck Hayes is beating Rose down the court to stop a fast break.
On the play that JR used to illistrate the defensive lapses of the Kings getting back, Outlaw to the shot and fell down, Tyreke was on the other side of the court below the FT line and JJ was at the FT line. When the shot was missed and Chicago got the ball, JJ went instinctively toward the rebound instead of getting back on defense. Tyreke was slow to react and ended up behind his man and Outlaws man, with no chance of stopping the break.
I’m not sure what set PW off in the post game interview. I don’t think I’ve seen him that upset this early in the season. I sure would like to know what went on in the locker room even though he said nothing happened. What I believe is that Tyreke and Thornton are too slow reacting on missed shots and which ever big is out high needs to get back quickly instead of trying to rebound.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think he was pissed at the
“slow to react” part you mentioned, it happened about 7 times. Waaay too many times.
He was also pissed that Tyreke went for that steal so hard that he ended up at midcourt, completely out of the play at such a crucial moment.
The halfcourt D was actually pretty damn good considering. D Rose made some good ISO plays that kept the Bulls in the game – but we also didn’t take full advantage of our foul advantage inthe 2nd half. Frustrating.
The missed FTs just magnified it all for both the team and the fans, made it seem hopeless.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 2:35 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure what set PW off in the post game interview.
I know exactly why…34 fast break points given up.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
uh - yeah
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Also almost double the # of assists, 18% freethrows
But there were good things,
- we were better on rebounding (because they were shooting 11% better FG then us)
- Less PF’s (They seem like a very Dirty playing team or is that just me?)
- More steals (us 8 vs 6 for them)
- Less TO’s (us 14 vs 16 for them)
Not sure where Jump balls come in, but honestly at least 1 of those should have been a foul against Bulls.
Why was DMC not attacking the rim more when Noah was at 4 fouols..He was getting there and either A: Getting basket, or B getting fouls..Attack and knock him outta the game faster..Hayes looked extremely frustrated
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
They arent dirty, just physical on D
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
I was thinking more about his comments about blaming others.
I don’t have a transscript, but it went something about ‘blaming refs, coaches and pointing fingers at other players’. I thought he might be referring to players defending their actions by blaming another player. The MRS. on the other hand suggested that players might be defending themselves by pointing their fingers at Tyreke and blaming the Coach for not holding Tyreke to the same standard.
I kink of like the MRS. view since it would explain the finger pointing and blaming the coach comment.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Evans' and Cousins' immaturity as players are really holding this team back.
Both showed huge bouts of immaturity and lack of commitment last night.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Ten games will be enough to judge Westphal's ability to coach this team. I don't think the
Maloofs should keep him the remainder of the season if the Kings haven’t won close to half of those games. The chaotic offense and laughable transition D – not to mention the lousy freethrow shooting- are inexcusable.
Stay Thirsty My Friends
WONK
Etymology - origin unknown
Function - Noun
Definition - A person preoccuped with arcane details or procedures in a specialized field; broadly, NERD; especially someone young who focuses on one topic or subject to the near exclusion of all other topics.
I still cannot stomach another intern coach
If Westphal has to walk, let it be after the season.
by bignerd on Dec 30, 2011 1:53 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Thank You nerd.
What I was going to say. Westphal has earned the right, in my view, to coach the team until the end of the season. At that point decide if you want to go another way. That is the Maloofs right as owners and Petrie’s right as a GM. But it makes little sense to fire Westphal without giving him some time to make this team work. It’s only 3 games and about 3 weeks into the season for chrissake. Rhythm and flow take time no matter how well “you understand” the offense.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I don't know about him earning any rights, but I respect your opinion.
I don’t see them firing him before the All-Star brake, and I can understand where they might give him the entire season before making any changes. I do feel that PW hasn’t had the best of luck losing Tyreke to most of their 2nd year together, Having to deal with the owners financial problems. And, having the lockout shorted season in his final year.
It would be interesting to knew if all the coaching changes were PW’s idea or the FO’s. I can see where the hiring of Smart was an attempt to link him to the organization in preparation form him taking over the team at the end of PW’s final season. If that were the case, then I don’t see that they would feel the need to not bring him in earlier in an interim role.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
If I were Smart, I'd rather start fresh with an entirely new season and a chance to create my own staff.
But that’s my opinion on it. I’m also not fond of interim coaches in any situation. The issue last night is commitment, and particular issue stems to both Cousins and Evans (equally but I’m more upset by Reke than Cousins at this point simply because Cousins is in his 2nd year and Evans is not).
Everyone else I’m overlooking for various reasons.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed 100%
The Malindas aren’t going to suddenly open the wallet for a top tier coach, and I have no interest in watching this team under the next Musselman/Theus/Natt/Westphal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think that excuse is slowly going out the window
Petrie needs to do his job and find a top flight assistant who is chomping at the bit to be a head coach (if that guy isn’t already on the staff).
I know I’m a big fat hypocrite on this, since I can’t stand kneejerk reactions. But this is the same crappy offensive flow we’ve been watching forever. And blaming our young talent for being dumb isn’t going to be sufficient IMO – it’s not like Westphal was some wildly successful, in demand coach when we brought him in.
Personally, I’d rather they make the change early in the season, than wait.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
The only reason that you change head coaches right now is if the coach has lost the team
And I see no evidence that this is the case.
With the compressed schedule and this team being so young, a new coach is not going to be able to come in and install anything that is all that new and improved as it pertains to play sets.
The Kings are 1-2 due to primarily poor free throw shooting and poor transition defense. Had they hit 75% from the line last night and cut fast break yielded points in half, they win the game, and they would have been a lot closer in Portland. Now you’re talking about a 2-1 club that has beaten the Lakers and Bulls at home and represented themselves fairly well in a tough Portland venue.
So, would you fire Westphal because this team is currently missing a ton of free throws and needs to improve vastly on their transition D? I wouldn’t, unless Jerry Sloan or Jeff Van Gundy is available, and my bet is that they are not, at least not at Malinda pricing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 30, 2011 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
And it DOES look like this team is better than last year
Last year this team would have lost by 30 to Chicago last night. The halfcourt defense seems much improved, and we have better floor spreaders on offense. We’ve just played some better teams so far and we obviously still have things to work on.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I think we've upgraded the talent except for one really important area
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Courtside announcers..We are still stuck with Jim Gray…BRING BACK KAYTE!!!!!!!!!!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2011 8:45 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Hubba hubba
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 30, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe it means more salacious twitter pics...
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
The only reason?
I disagree. They should both play hard and play well. If we’re only getting 50% of that, I think we could do better.
Yeah, I think I would replace Westphal. And it’s way too simplistic to say that missed free throws and transition D are the only issues with this squad.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Yes, the only reason
Under the circumstances, you are not going to gain appreciably improved play by making a coaching change right now. I would agree that a change needs to be made only if the coach has lost the team, which I do not believe is the case. Otherwise it needs to wait until the end of the season. With the team this young and practices so few and far between, a new coach is not going to come in on the fly and be able to execute many changes.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think the crux of our disagreement is the team's ability to find a better replacement coach
You may not improve appreciably right now, but you will improve sooner than you would if you wait until the end of the season to fire the guy. Why waste an entire season when you could only waste a small portion of the season? That makes no sense.
If anything, the lockout and lack of practice makes it an easier transition to a new coach than a normal season IMO. If Westphal hasn’t been able to impart too much to this group so far, the change wouldn’t be that rough.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Completely agree with your take
Our team, the youngest in the NBA, Should be very adaptable to a new coach, as youth can adopt to changes quickly.
We’ve got a whole season ahead of us – let’s be wicked smaaht and let Keith take over from here. The average Kings player has not even spent that much time under Westphal so it wouldn’t hurt the teams chi flow to switch coaches versus, say, a team of veterans that is accustomed to set plays and procedures from a long standing coach.
by convoy on Dec 30, 2011 9:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agree with this take 100%
Oh, and I’d love Jerry Sloan, but you can keep JVG. He might be a good coach, but he looks like a weasel and I hate listening to him speak.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
I love your reasoning for not wanting JVG.
That’s awesome.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Van Gundy's my favorite NBA announcer.
Knowledgeable and funny at the same time. I think for sure he or Sloan would come here for 1.5 mil.
Keith Smart
is just a few seats over. Personally i’d like to see him take over.. at least to finish the year.
Not me
I agree with what Section said above. Westphal hasn’t lost this team and therefore deserves to finish out the season.
Seems we have pretty minimal expectations of our coach and GM
Yet, very high expectations of the players.
That’s one way to run an operation, I suppose.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I've always agreed with Simmons on this
There’s only a handful of NBA coaches who make actual differences. Unless the Kings hire Jerry Sloan in the middle of the season, there’s no need to fire Westphal to name Keith Smart the interim coach.
I don't agree with that at all
But I know I’m somewhat on an island on this one.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I'm not advocating for firing PW (yet)
But there seems to be an assumption that the team wouldn’t improve with his firing unless a top shelf coach replaced him. It is possible that the team could indeed improve if coached by someone other than a top flight coach…
Why not just hire Keith Smart and start fresh then?
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
At the end of the season I mean^
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm fine with that actually
It’s up to Petrie though, and I’m not sure finding a decent coach outside of Rick Adelman is in his wheelhouse.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Bring back Adelman!
We should have never fired him in the first place. He could have been the modern Jerry Sloan and stayed here for 20 years. Plus, fuck Kahn, he’s dumb enough to find a way to lose Adelman.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
he hasn't lost the team yet
but it looks like he doesn’t have them either..
Exactly what I was just thinking
Westphal has never really had them.
Yes, the team appears to respect the coach, but they just flat out look like they don’t know what to do out there much of the time. This is when Westphal should be visually yelling at them, yes in real-time, to get back into set offensive play calls/transition D. Team looks all-too cavalier.
by convoy on Dec 30, 2011 9:41 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Obviously PW isn't going to be fired because of lousy free Throw shooting
Of course if the Kings finish up January giving up 50 pts in the paint and being outscored by an average of 10pts like they have in the 1st 3 games. And, if they continue to have more turnovers than assists. There could be whispers about a change.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Wish we had Adelman
He would get the most out of these guys
by syangers on Dec 30, 2011 2:37 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
SO did DMC spend the offseason watching footage of Derek Fischer?
Ive never seen a player so improved in drawing charges.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
What did he draw tonight - 4?
Someone mentioned today that THAT should be in the box score instead of that silly +/-.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 3:10 AM PST up reply actions
+1
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
I liked best the counter-charges in the 4th quarter
I thought that was hilarious that they actually worked.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
lol only if his attitude is as terrible as I hear.
If we had Rondo and DMC, I’d be afraid to even come to the games.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
As much as a win would have been great
The Kings first 4 games were against the Lakers, Blazers, Bulls and Knicks. Those are 4 playoff teams from last season. The Kings beat the team that got worse over the offseason. The others all improved. It will be great if we can start 2012 with a 2-2 record, but 1-3 wouldn’t be anything to panic over.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
I don't think wins and losses are what people are concerned about
but overall would agree (although that transition d is putrid)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 7:37 AM PST up reply actions
It gets worse next week when you include the 4 games in 5 nights bit..
…and 3 of those games are in a row. I’ve always been hoping for a 4-4 record in this stretch and I’d call that good.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
At the game last night
The Kings look liked sheep being herded on transition defense. Especially that one play in the 2nd quarter when Korver hit that wide open 3. All the Kings players ran straight to the basket and no one covered Korver.
I'm sure our Isaiah Thomas has some liabilities that may be exposed over time
But I’d sure like to see him get increased minutes, even if it’s at Jimmer’s expense.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I'd like to see the "small" set a lot more with Evans at the 3,
which would open up backcourt minutes for Thomas.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 30, 2011 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
I’m more and more coming to the conclusion that not only is Reke not a natural point guard, he doesn’t want to BE a point guard. Just wants to be able to handle the rock. Petrie, free Reke!
...as well as opening the backdoor for a Reke cut
…and Jimmer could actually hit him in stride.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Yeah I was surprised Isaiah didn't come in much yesterday
Particularly when the offensive flow and transition D was lacking.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I was happy when I saw IT come in to guard Rose
I know he’s not as tall or as strong as Rose, but he should have the quickness to at least stay in front of him. Was disappointed that he only played 20 seconds.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
I would have liked to see IT come in to match up with CJ Watson last night.
He could have matched up well on D with him.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
I think our biggest weakness is our coaching.
Last night I sat in Section 118, row H. From there I was able to get a close look at Westphal during timeouts and how the players respond. To me, it looked as if the players have tuned him out. Most players he was talking to weren’t paying attention or were watching whatever show was on the court during the time (i.e., break dancers).
It also seems like the players don’t have a sense of the game situation. Best example is when they weredown 7 with 2 mintues left in regulation, they’re walking the ball up the court. Westphal wasn’t up yelling for them to push it. Compare that to Thibs, he was always yelling and talking to his players. It’s just one example but trust me, there were many throughout the game. My best guess is that he gets fired before season’s end.
Tyreke…man we were so disappointed watching him play. I know his facial expression is typically permastoned but you can’t hide body language. He wasn’t hustling back on defense and was often seen jogging. His jumper looked pretty horrible let alone his free throws. Cisco, BJax, and others were trying to get him motivated too…we saw them saying to him, “Come one, let’s go”…saw BJAX say, “get your head into it” while pointing at his own head. The shot clock violation possession, the whole crowd was screaming at him to do something with the ball other than dribble, dribble, dribble. I think Tyreke has all the talent in the world but that doesn’t mean much when he isn’t into it mentally or when he’s not paying attention to the coaches.
Jimmer…PULL THE TRIGGER. When you dribble into Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, or Asik, bad things tend to happen. I don’t care if they were in foul trouble, they’re just going to stand there with their arms straight up because they’re close to 7 feet tall while Jimmer is closer to 6 feet.
DMC…one of few people actually busting their butt out there. Bad shooting night but not easy shooting over the Noah tree. Also missed a bunch of tough putbacks. Loved how he takes charges on the defensive end and even moreso after giving one on the other.
Salmons…no thanks. Outlaw…no thanks.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:24 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I've noticed the distracted behavior with a lot of players these days.
Just watch the Magic when Van Gundy is screaming in the huddle. I think the days of players giving rapt attention to their coaches are a thing of the past unfortunately.
But what's there for the Magic players to know besides shoot open 3s and pass to Dwight? LOL. Simple job description.
My main thing is that Westphal doesn’t have command of his team. He doesn’t put them in situations to succeed. His rotations are questionable at best and players don’t understand the game situation.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
All players do that to every coach.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah but the good teams actually do what the coaches say and implement that effectively.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
We’re not good. Hopefully we’ll be average this year.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Trade Ty-WEAK Evans asap!!!
We need to trade evans, and had the PG position over to Jimmer!!
play nba 2k
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Dec 30, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
My take from Section 213
This game was so utterly frustrating. Tyreke was being flat out lazy on D. 2x he swiped at the ball at mid-court while Rose ran right past him for a layup. LAZINESS! JT bobbled an easy pass he should have dunked and airballed an easy 10 footer. He looked horrible. DMC, and maybe Hayes, in my eyes, were the only players who gave a crap that game. Big Cuz took like 4 charges, was active on D and took it to the bigs in the paint. In my opinion, he’s really emerging as the leader of the team. Tyreke seems to be simply a willing participant, but by no means a leader.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:49 AM PST reply actions
My observations too. What are your thoughts on Westphal and how he's doing his job?
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
Westphal won't make it past the all star break if he keeps coaching like this...
I’d like to see Keith Smart take his place, and see what he can do for this team.
We need someone who can instill some energy into this group and bring them together. I liked Westphal when he first started out but now, not so much.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Accountability
I’m right there with you – seems to me that PWs biggest issue isn’t in the X’s and O’s – At this level, I’m sure he’s calling plays, has a defensive plan for transition, etc.. It seems that it’s in his lack of holding the players accountable when they don’t follow the plan.
We see players jog down the court after made baskets while the opposing offense flies by them, play ISO with a 10 bounce minimum at the beginning of a set, etc. No timeouts, no one getting benched for lack of effort, etc.
A coach that is trying to instill a sense of team and a “plan” needs to enforce that plan. Thibs would have yanked ANYONE for deviating. He’d call a TO after ONE mistake, not waiting for 7. (OK – granted – the Kings would be out of time outs in 2 minutes if PW did this! But still…)..
Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
- Yogi Berra
I think he’s doing fine. If Tyreke doesn’t go 5-12 FT and we actually get back on D (which would have stopped at least 6 points) We would have won.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
We would have won, or could have won?
There were lots of problems offensively as well.
Might as well say “if we’d only played better offensively, defensively and at the free throw line, we would have won”.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Not quite what you said.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
And Tyreke's 5-12 was an EMBARASSMENT!
Total lack of concentration.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
Did you hear the boo-birds come out for Reke after the missed free throws and the shot-clock violation possession?
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
Hope he gets his head into it soon. He is too talented of a player to play that way.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
I dont think there's any dispute about his talent
But I fear his work ethic and focus has hindered his further development.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
I was booing.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Especially after the 3-1 fast break that he screwed up.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Thats the play that really pissed me off.
It can’t be that hard to give the ball to our 2 best shooters, when they are wide open on a 3-1 break.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Lots of "you suck Tyreke" coming from Section 205 after that play
I just yelled “WTF Tyreke?” but there was a LOT of booing coming from around me.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
I hate it when people boo our own players
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agree. This is not Philly.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
Didn't you hear?
Booing your own teammates when they miss a free-throw helps them make them.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Meant us booing the players
Apparently we all were on the Sacramento Kings last night
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Our jersey is retired.
Your point is invalid.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
by DTG13 on Dec 30, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't hear the boo's for our own players
But that could be because it was drowned out by the cheering Bulls fans.
Definitely some booing when we were missing FTs in the 4th quarter
I typically just shake my head, facepalm, or yell “come on!”
I was surprised by the number of bulls fans there, almost seemed to be as many of them as there were [redacted] fans at the first game.
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
I hate that.
Especially when we are trying to keep the team in Sacramento.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Sac has more than it's fair share of bandwagon fans
drives me crazy
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 30, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
meh
if you pay the ticket just don’t bring your fight face.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
lol fight face
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
It's not the bandwagonning that bothers me
it’s the douchey behavior that comes with it
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Dec 30, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'd be more concerned about weird narratives forming on the local talk radio and what not
then the boo birds when the team is playing dumb
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Yeap.
But I think most of them were really frustrated though because of the Kings averaging close to Shaq’s career FT% – for three(!) games now.
They’re just not used to it (last year we shot better).
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
The possession where Thornton came up with the steal
and threw it out of bounds I facepalmed my glasses right into my eye.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I was sitting on the couch with my beer,
and accidentally spit it out on my dog.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
by DTG13 on Dec 30, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
to clarify...
I wasn’t booing, but I heard a lot of it around me. I was shaking my head and muttering choice words under my breath ;)
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
Stupid plays:
I say “COME ON!” or I “boooooo”. Is the former okay? If so, what’s the difference?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
I don't boo...
Just yell “WTF!?!?!” Not passing on a 3-1 fast break tends to cause that to happen…
yup
petriefingsucks must have put a curse on him or has a time machine and we don’t know it because he was talking about Tyreke’s horrid free throw shooting before the season started
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
NYKs game plan will be simple
Run after missed shots, and don’t be afraid to foul instead of giving up a good shot. I would also mention that on fast breaks focus on the ball handler, because there’s a good chance he won’t pass despite having numbers. I don’t think were there yet, but I’m hoping teams are at least disscussing are ability to draw charges and will think about it before attacking are smaller front court.
I’m surprised how bad the transition D was after the Portland game. I expected the offense to struggle, but I thought they’d be able to limit the fast break points. If this does not improve against the Knicks I’m going to be very disheartened.
It’s obvious there’s a lot of concern with the offense and the lack of ball movement, assists totals, and to much ISO. No question they need to improve, but let’s keep it in context. The five teams with the highest %AST have a combined record of 3-8. Like it or not, in today’s game there’s a lot of one on one and teams expect their best players to create shots for themselves routinely. I’m not saying it’s ok to force shots or dribble out the clock, but we have guys that can beat their man one on one with the best of them and I’m ok with them doing so. It’s the tunnel vision after that seems to be the bigger issue to me that needs to be worked on.
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 8:54 AM PST via mobile reply actions
It's fine for your best player to run an ISO if he has an advantage
but it’s not ok to have most of your offense run thru ISO’s. It makes the defenses job too easy. That’s why you have to run plays to get others open and keep the defense honest.
If you don’t have a good quarterback in football and run on every first down, it doesn’t take the defense long to figure out how to stop you.
Watch the weak side of the court for a quarter. No player movement. No picks set, off the ball to allow players to make backcutts, slash down the lane or even get open for a catch and shoot play. And, when are we going to use our big guards to set backpicks to free up our bigs in front of the basket. Why does DeMarcus have to do all his scoring on his own.
The defense doesn’t worry about the players away from the ball, and we end up with 5 on 2 or 5 on 3 at the offensive end.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Quite frankly, DeMarcus has been mediocre this season
He’s in better shape, no doubt about it. But he rarely beats his man to a good spot in the low post, and he finishes around the basket like crap. How many times has he missed easy layups or had his shot blocked down low this season?
And I think last season we saw the ability to pass the ball from DeMarcus – but check his assist total for the year. You can count it using the fingers on zero hands.
80 minutes, zero assists. TS% of .419, eFG% of .349. All this with a usage rate of 32.6, which is by far the highest on the team (Tyreke’s at 22.0).
I realize DeMarcus is a sacred cow for you, but he’s been as big a part of the problem so far as anyone.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I don't understand why DeMarcus is a sacred cow.
Nobody on this team has earned that status honestly. The only guy even having come close at any point is Tyreke, and that was still mostly potential based and not all production based in his rookie year.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He's aware of my predraft love for DeMarcus and talented Big Men in general
But your right otis, I’m more willing to give a 2nd year big man along of leeway. You know the old adage that it takes a long time to develop a PG and a Center.
But, mostly because the lack of help DeMarcus gets on the offensive end. I know you don’t agree, but we do the worst job in the league at creating easy baskets for our bigs.
Exactly how many alley-oops have DeMarcus, JJ and JT had in the first 3 games?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
That's the definition of creating easy baskets? Alley Oops?
I hope that isn’t the case. Oh joy oh joy, the stain of Chris Paul how I do not particularly care for thee.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
his game has regressed since his rookie season.. we need to trade him now, i’m sure there are a lot of teams out there that are still interested in him.. or at least want to try to “rebuild” with younger players. I would find a way to package Tyreke/Thompson/Greene, for Evan Turner and Elton Brand. Like it or not, Jimmer is the PG for this team going foward, we didn’t draft him 11 to come off the bench.
Thoughts?
he was 10th
and we didn’t draft a very talented player at number 4 just to give up on him after 2 and 1/8 seasons.
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Dec 30, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So much this.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Interesting quote from DMC:
“Everybody has to buy in,” Cousins said. “Everybody. Not just the players. Everybody. We go out there and fight, but everybody’s going to have to fight together.”
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 8:57 AM PST reply actions
So he's referring to the Coach?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
That's what I assume. Jason Jones got the quote but I didn't think he did a great job implementing it into his article.
When a player says something like that, that typically means players aren’t buying into the coaching and are divided.
From what I can tell, DMC and Hayes were the only ones who gave a crap yesterday for the whole game.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Another observation
I don’t know how else to explain this but the Kings just looked flat out lazy in the half-court defense. They just kind of stand around on defense. At least they were last night.
the half court defense is actually fine
its transistion D thats killing them.
They just didn't rotate at all in the first half on defense
I agree with High Tops though, they looked much better in the 2nd half.
Brilliant minds think alike, thanks
There are some trust issues and knowing what your responsiblities that have yet to be worked out.
There was a play where Tyreke was guarding Hamilton at the left elbow. Rose beat his man and drove left right at Tyreke. Hamilton faded into the left corner but Tyreke stayed in front of Rose. Rose passed into the corner and Hamilton hit the corner 3.
Now on first glance, it looked like Tyreke did the right thing by stopping the ball. But, Hayes was right behind Tyreke and outside the restricted area. Hayes was right where he needed to be to stop Rose. By not staying with his man and trusting Hayes to do his job, Tyreke gave up an uncontested corner 3.
Trust is Tyreke’s biggest shortcoming as far as I’m concerned. At both ends of the court, as shown by his refusal to give up the ball on the 3 against 1 fast break. He either needs to be the Big Man or Can’t give up control.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 30, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
2 Things I want to happen next game:
1) The crowd to STOP wanting Jimmer to shoot after he runs around every screen – especially when it’s at the 30 foot mark on his way to initiating the offense.
2) I want to see Jimmer foul somebody HARD on transition defense.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:21 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I think when the offense is bogging down, and you know you’ve got a sharpshooter out there, you want him to take shots. But yeah, Jimmer’s trying to run an actual offense, not just let it fly. I think he needs to find a happy medium though.
As to point two, that would be a great idea. Very John Stockton-ish.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Jimmer didn't get a foul until the second half.
He tried to get his body in front of transition guys but he needs to do more. He has to lay them out.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
I HATE people yelling at Jimmer to shoot every time
Let the guy play basketball. To his credit, Jimmer seems largely unfazed by it.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
So basically...
You hate when the fans try to coach. Amen, to that.
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Technical Foul on Heuristic Lineup
For making too much sense…Put that in the book and Send Pookey to the line!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Totally off topic Aykis ... okay mostly off topic but technically about the Boogie pick you have up above in this article
Is there some specific html code you use to have the picture next to the text, either on the left of the text or to the right (as you have it here in this article)?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Probably
But SB Nation makes it easy so I just choose the picture, crop it to my liking, choose the location and it does it for me.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
lol
I was always using the HTML area for pics on fanposts. Never thought about just going to the view where you can see the article and moving the pictures around. Derp Derp!
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Agree when it looks like a bad shot but there are also a lot of times where he has an open jumper and chooses to drive it inside. I'd like to seem him pull the trigger more on those. He has a quick release and we need him to shoot those kind of shots...
to open it up inside.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
I do wish Jimmer would shoot when he has an opening
He tries to drive right to the basket and gets caught and that lead to one turnover that I can think of.
He should shoot every time he is open
Can’t be worse than letting Tyreke go 1 on 5 or letting Salmons touch the ball. Force the defense to play him tight and see if it opens any space for our other players.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
I think its funny
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
The Bulls had 27 fouls and the Kings only had 19
yet two of our starters fouled out. Jimmer doesn’t need to commit a hard foul. The whole team needs to learn when to foul. We get frustrated after losing a rebound or loose ball and end up fouling after the possession is lost.
The good teams use their fouls when they get beat and before the other team can take advantage of their mistakes. There is no reason for our team to give up 53% shooting from the field and have 7 of our 10 players with a total of 4 fouls and the remaining 3 players end up with 15.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Dec 30, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Observation on the Bulls' defense vs. Tyreke...
They made a concerted effort to go underneath any screens set for Tyreke. When that happens, he needs to be able to step back and shoot the jumper. That’s what he was suppose to improve at, right? Instead he either plays into their hands by trying to pass it inside or drive it in. This normally results in a turnover. It’s almost a given that defenses do this but he has to take his game to another level and adjust. If he still can’t shoot outside then I seriously question his work ethic in the offseason. Teams are begging him to shoot it outside and it doesn’t look like he’s confident in it. THis is the type of thing that teams were doing to Derrick Rose and with his jumper, he was able to take his game to the elite level.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 9:22 AM PST reply actions
Excuses
Enough of the BS abt them playing together enough, no pre-season, etc.. The fact is that what is killing this team is a complete lack of effort or commitment.
This is basic stuff guys that professional basketball players, hell, rec league players can do:
- Get back on defense
- Someone besides Chuck Hayes setting a pick to facilitate some ball movement
- Practice FT’s
And I think this goes back to PW. A coach has to be able to get his guys to do the fundamentals. When temas get lazy and stop playing sound basketball, thats when the coach has lost them.
Jimmer needs to figure out how to get fouled more to shoot FTs
since he might be one of the only players who’s good at them on the Kings.
If you want the man to get fired, fine
I want specific names of coaches you would replace him with and why. I’ll save you some time now and go ahead and cut out the BS answers like Sloan or JVG.
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 9:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
That's Petrie's Job
Tom T from the Bulls was not exactly a household name when he took over the Bulls. Petrie needs to find an assistant who is ready to takeover a team, hold players accountable, play defense, etc… If he can’t do that, replace with Keith Smart.
So let me get this straight
It’s ok for you to play Petrie in determining Westphals coaching flaws and that he needs to be replaced. It’s also ok to play Petrie in determining what type of characteristics this new coach has to have to succeed. But it suddenly becomes the ACTUAL Geoff Petrie’s job to find this phantom coach that you’ve described when someone asks you for the name of one person (to be fair you did say Smart, who’s already on the bench) that fits your needs.
I like that way of thinking, seems fun. Let me try;
“kings need to trade Tyreke for a PG. Someone who is pass first so they can “set up” the offense and it could be more systematic. This PG needs to be a leader, a great defender, an efficient scorer (never in ISO of course), and a mentor for our young guys. IF the kings make that trade I guarantee they’ll have success."
“Gee, that sounds great. Who you thinking we should trade for?”
“I don’t know, that’s Petrie’s job!”
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 11:04 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I'd assume he's seen Westphal every game for two+ seasons
But not every other assistant coach in the league? Dunno, that could explain it.
I’d have to defer to Petrie on this as well, but I’m not sure he’s up for the job based on his recent head coaching hires. But to just throw up your hands and assume there’s nobody better out there is crazy as well.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Is it not ironic
That people are willing to defer to Petrie to ultimately choose a new coach, but not willing to defer to him to decide if the team needs a new one to begin with?
I don’t think I’m asking for much. If your going to make the claim he needs to be replaced, than you should have some idea of whom you want him to be replaced with and why.
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 12:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ironic? Nope, not sure even Alanis would call that "ironic"
Personally, I’d be fine with Keith Smart taking over. We’ve talked about Jerry Sloan. I thought they missed the boat on Larry Brown.
Turns out Tom Thibodeau (there were more than a few people here that wanted him) would have been a better choice.
At this point though, I’m not sure Westphal isn’t doing more harm than good – meaning a “change for change’s sake” wouldn’t upset me.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I specifically avoided using "isn't it ironic"
it’s the same reason I avoid using cumbersome any more.
Do you think Westphal has lost the team? Also, what influence do you think Smart has on the decision making now? I know nothing about PW in regards to how he works with his staff.
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 1:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Who sings about being cumbersome?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
No reason to get angry
I think a request for a coach who is “is ready to takeover a team, hold players accountable, play defense” is a little more feasible than “This PG needs to be a leader, a great defender, an efficient scorer (never in ISO of course), and a mentor for our young guys”
I think my charachteristics should be possible to find in a coach. Your PG description is a little too loco. So, Petrie needs to do his job, using his bball knowledge, to find a guy that fits that mold.
You're right, what I wrote was over the top
And I did sound like an A-hole, so I apologize for that. I think reading some of the panic posts have gotten to me…
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 1:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Accepted
If I knew how the F to post a pic on this site, I would post a pic of Westphal hugging a Maloof.
Let me help -
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 30, 2011 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you
I hate PW as much as the next guy, but remember our past coaches. Eric Muss, Kenny Natt, Reggie Theus. I would rather keep PW than get another D league level coach. At least PW was successful like 20 years ago, thats more than most coaching options can say.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Also, letting Scott Brooks go was a mistake
I think he was either undefeated or near undefeated when Eric Muss was suspended for his DUI.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
you really using the win/loss record when Muss was suspended as persuasive evidence?
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
At the time the team looked better during those games compared to the mess with Muss
and after the work he did on the Thunder, I think it proved it was a mistake to let him go. I don’t think anyone could deny that he is better than PW.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Well considering his work for the Thunder was in the future ...
Definitly think he is better. But (a) you are talking about two games when Muss was out (b) the Thunder did not happen until later and © it wasn’t Brooks vs. PW it was Brooks vs. Theus.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
You gotta love the job Brooks is doing
Don’t know if anyone could have predicted it.
Well the Thunder did.
Brought him on as an assistant and gave him the keys to the team when PJ got the ax.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Think that's more about hoping than predicting.
by blknblu on Dec 30, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane."
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
lol, aren't we all
BEING A KINGS FAN IS LIKE PRISON!
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
I knew there was a reason I hate the Maloofs.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Just watch out for the Sisters
They may claim to be a friend to you. And if they do, I’d make sure to grow eyes in the back of my head if I were you.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You sure the second one is a woman?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
And she doesn't qualify.
Thanks for the fat slow pitch softball Wally.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Have a rec.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
Yeah, hindsight's a bitch
I guess at this point we got to hope Smart or someone can turn into the next Scott Brooks type coach. I can probably hold out hope that PW will put things together during this season, but if it doesn’t, then fire him and take a chance on someone else.
by SharkKings49 on Dec 30, 2011 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Observation on Kings guards using screens...
They’re horrible at it!!!! Typically, big men set their screens a few feet away from the ballhandler and it’s up to the ballhandler to use that screen effectively. The mechanics of using this effectively is by the ballhandler having to basically rub shoulders with the screener so the defender doesn’t slip over the top, force the defender to go underneath, or force both defenders to switch. Tyreke didn’t use his screens well and still the defender went underneath. They’d rather give him that extra space to shoot it than give up a driving lane to him. He needs to make them pay and he needs to show us this jumper he keeps saying he’s been working on.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 9:28 AM PST reply actions
They used them pretty well against the Lakers
by Crocoduck on Dec 30, 2011 11:14 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't able to watch the Laker game. I'm talking about Chicago specifically...
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
the Lakers did not know how to hedge after getting picked in the pick and roll
it was weird, everyone kept collapsing on the guy rolling to the basket or just simply gave way too much room. Not a shocker the Kings jump shots were falling
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
I think Tyreke needs to recognize this more often. His defenders consistently rrun underneath the screen and he needs to step back to take the jumper. I don't care if it goes in (well sorta) but he needs to take that shot. And if the defender...
somehow recovers then he can drive to the hoop for a layup or kickout. That’s how you use the pick-n-roll to open up things. So far he’s been driving right into the defense rather than stepping back for the jumper and creating space.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
You need to use the screen immediately
hesitate and it was a waste of effort.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Yup...plus I didn't see either of the guards take the correct angle in using the screens either.
I think this can be fixed with some coaching.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Early on Tyreke didn't even wait for Hayes to get into position to set a screen
he even went baseline when Hayes was coming from the top of the key. And, Hayes’ man was able to double Tyreke because Hayes is no threat to score from 20 ft from the basket.
And, I agree, it’s the responsibility of the player with the ball to use the screen properly. Although JT makes that difficult at times by not staying in position long enough.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
13 to 25
25 Bulls assist, 13 kings assist. What happened?? I thought the whole point of bring in shooters around Reke was to see more drive and kick. And why don’t the guards pass on fast breaks? Our guards have to stop always looking for their own shot. And we finally got a shot blocker last yr in Bur, and now we are back to not having one. transition Def. will be an issue all yr. We can work on it but we will never be great. we just don’t have to size and speed. But bring in a shot blocker and a passing first guard could really help this team. This is what was suppose to happen this yr but didn’t . Love Chuck but too damn short. Portland killed us with their size. I know we played against Rose last night. And no one can stop him from getting to the rim. But their whole team was laying up on us. Need a shot blocker that runs the floor, and pass first pt guard that can be brought in off the bench, to kill some of this 1 on 1 ball.
PUHD!
ksh
because a drive and kick requires off the ball movement to get open
Not 4 other guys watching the player driving.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
I'm kind of with you on the Hayes vs Bur thing
Thru the first 3 games we’re giving up an average of 50 points in the paint and only scoring 40 ourselves. that means we have to shoot even better on the more difficult long jumpers.
Having said that, Dalembert wasn’t the answer either. With him the Kings gave up the highest shooting percentage at the basket last year. First Hawes was the problem and Sammy was going to fix that. Then Beno was the problem. So, I don’t think that we can now say that Hayes is the problem.
The problem is that our perimeter defense has always been weak and we don’t play team defense well enough to make up for it. Adding one or even two defensive minded players that don’t have a good offensive game isn’t the answer either. We need smart offensive players that know their defensive responsibilities and rotations, and are willing to play team defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
true
i did see jimmer do this a little, but Reke is the starting pt guard, he’s getting the most minutes. If jimmer gets better at this, we may have to plug him in
PUHD!
ksh
Reading over some of this thread
You’d think we were 0-3 and getting blown out by the Nets or something.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 9:46 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Actually
I thought we’d beat LA, lose in Port, lose this game to the Bulls and have a good chance on NY Eve. and NY day
We just looked so bad in Portland and then lost this one for terrible reasons.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You aren't alone.
I’m terrified of the Knicks because our transition defense is just sucky. I wonder if the Knicks are as committed as the Bulls are though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh I think their wings and bigs have zero problems commiting to easy hustle points
just a question of whether their guards can get the ball to them
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Not to mention
Amare is out tonight (Rumored)
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
If Amar'e doesn't play as is rumored
I’ll be very disappointed with a loss to New York. Aside from Carmelo do they have anyone on that team that could be considered an offensive threat? And Chandler is the only one on the other end that can be considered a defensive threat. New York has mortgaged their future for two superstars that don’t really complement each other and don’t play defense. They’re a weird team.
Even with Amar’e I’ll probably still be disappointed with a loss.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Amen brotha
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Is that
Ziller’s cat?
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I knew there was a reason I liked that cat.
And I generally don’t like cats for some reason.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I was going to put pussy
but apparently it only works on female friends. LOL
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I got no problem with pussy.
I definitely got no problem with pussy. Oh, you meant pussy tats. My bad.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But they have D'Antoni...
His aura naturally emits offensive efficiency into his players, right?
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
So far, not so much
24th in the league in Offensive Rating. Kings are 20th.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I forgot to change to my sarcasm font there...
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Dec 30, 2011 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
He'll play
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
There is no reason to fear
things that do not exist.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 30, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
In my defense
My ridiculous angry gif up above is something I intentionally plan on doing after every loss. To be honest, it helps me get a stupid laugh and to get over it.
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not frustrated at stuff like that
It’s the “Tyreke is terrible!” “Fire Westphal!” refrain that is just mind boggling to me. I can understand it in 10-15 games if we’re like 3-12 or something terrible and the team just doesn’t improve, but now? It just doesn’t make sense.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why I'm not screaming "Fire Westphal!"
Is because I’m a Kings and 49ers fan. I’ve lived through the Natt disaster the the disaster that was Mike Singletary. Things can certainly get worse with a different coach.
That team was a disaster with or without Kenny Natt.
Natt just didnt’ make any real impact as a head coach.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm glad we agree.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But as a fellow Niners fan
don’t we also look at how much things improved when Singletary was replaced by Harbaugh?
Harbaugh was the most coveted head coach at the time, and York really opened up the wallet to get him.
What’s the NBA equivalent of Harbaugh? Would the Malindas spring for him?
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing." -Jerry Reynolds
"He's gonna get a big hug, and I'm gonna hang on for a while." -Duane Kuiper
I think the Westphal and Reke stuff is warranted to an extent...
He hasn’t shown that he’s the man for the job and I personally think he’s having a hard time getting all of his players to buy in. His players aren’t well aware of the game situation and his rotations and playcalling are questionable.
Tyreke does look lethargic. I can understand having issues not knowing where to be on offense or making bad decisions. But there is no excuse for a lack of hustle or a lack of leadership. If he wants this to be his team, he has to hold himself accountable then others. He hasn’t done either. If he’s not a vocal guy then is he a lead by example guy? He hasn’t done a good job of either and I think we as fans are waiting for him to take that next step. This is his third year and he’s suppose to be one of our core players. Accountability is a legit gripe.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
To be fair
Many of the people saying this wanted Tyreke and/or Westphal gone prior to the start of the season. So three games in or thirty, it’s a consistent position.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Dec 30, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The problem is
The Kings have lost back-to-back games because the transition defense is crap. That’s incredibly frustrating.
Like I said, at least we know our weaknesses
Last year, we would have lost back-to-back games because our everything was crap.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Last year we would have lost all three of these games
The second the Lakers made that push in the 4th, the old Kings would have lost that game IMO
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Is this just me
Or do the Kings look less stagnant on offense? Remember how they would open and close quarters? That seems like that has thankfully changed.
They look less stagnant on offense.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Getting back on defense has more to do with hustling than anything else. The only strategy to stopping fast breaks is to hustle back and stop the ball. There's no playcalls or defensive rotations for this.
Players need to bust their butts and get back like they give a damn. It’s disheartening watching guys jog back…especially when those guys are the core/face of the team. That’s where some of the complaints develop from.
While at the game last night, many of us fans were yelling at the team to get back. When we don’t see that, it looks like the players aren’t trying hard enough. When the players don’t look like they’re trying then we start to question the coaching and whether they’re motivating the players or being effective with them.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Not always
Could see on a few of the Bulls fast breaks they rebounded the ball and none of the Kings were position to stop them, It was poor awareness.
AGREED
I think many people are overlooking the fact that in this shortened season we, as fans, need to be focusing on making improvements. Over the course of the past three games there are def signs of improvement over last season. Granted, there are glaring issues that need to be addressed, but I think we are still on the right track. Until we start taking too many steps backwards lets save the panic and destructive criticism.
What does an NBA coach actually do?
Obviously a few somehow inspire better play. But what does a coach do? What can he do? In football and baseball it’s clear what the coach’s job is. In the NBA it isn’t. I think Westphal is useless because he doesn’t seem to DO anything. Would love to hear what you think an NBA coach is supposed to be doing.
They should be...
developing ways to beat the opposing teams, effective playcalling, holding players accountable when they make mistakes, encouraging players (i.e., to keep shooting their shots or sticking with the game plan), putting players in positions to succeed (i.e., telling/showing them where the open man is, where the best shot is going to come from, how to defend certain plays/players, etc.)….just to name a few.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 30, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
You should harness it and develop your own pyramid
by elSAVinator on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Khufu's got nothing on me bitches!
I’ll smack the ka out of him (oh ancient egyptian jokes would be so funny if people ever got them)
by wallywagon11 on Dec 30, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This will help more
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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by Exhibit G on Dec 30, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
You've won this argument by a landslide.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's cheating.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
we can't amnesty salmons anymore right?
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST reply actions
not saying that we should
just checking that if we needed to, we could.
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Dec 30, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
We can amnesty him after this season and prior to next season
But not during this season. That time has passed.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
The time has passed for his salary not to count against the cap for this year
We could still do it -though I think there’s almost no chance of that.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
That's not an amnesty that's just straight up waiving
which would be a stupid move.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I'm sure his salary wouldn't count against the cap in future years
but I wasn’t suggesting it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
If you waive a player...
…his salary is guaranteed as long as the contract calls for his contract to be guarantee in the absence of skill. In ortherwords, if you waived Cisco you’d still owe him next season.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No kidding
but it wouldn’t count against the Cap in future years.
Not sure why my point is being missed. Hell, it wsan’t even my point, I’m not suggesting we waive/amnesty anyone.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
No...
..it would count against the cap too. If you waive Cisco tomorrow, he counts against the cap UNTIL HIS CONTRACT ENDS. That’s why teams don’t waive more players. (Please refrain from the NFL comment. Please?)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nonsense, you could waive him now
and amnesty him off the cap next pre-season.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2011 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
I thought that the amnesty rule
was that these guys could only be amenstied before/after the season, and not during. In other words, the Kings cannot amnesty anyone until after this season ends and before the next one begins.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Not seen a single rule that says you can waive someone...
..and then amnesty that player. Show me where that’s the case and then I’ll agree with you. Otherwise, okely dokely.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Doesn't work that way
You can only amnesty guys on your roster. You can’t amnesty a cap hold.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Exactly.
Or a previously waived contract. I think people are confusing the 2011 amnesty with the 2005 amnesty where you could amnesty a previously waived player. (Except, the difference then was that you could use the amnesty for a 3 week period and then it expired.)
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know we're just in 3 games in, but wasn't Tyreke suppose to get back to his "old form"
I’m tired of seeing all these videos where Tyreke has “Jimmer Range” or he hits 10 out of 12 but in game situations doesn’t come close. I’ve lost faith in Reke. DMC might have matured more than Reke. It probably is too soon, but I think trading him for a true PG could be like a J-will for Bibby.
So trading him for a true PG...
Could be like when we traded J-Will for not a true PG?
by HeuristicLineup on Dec 30, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
No I'm saying it could have a positive effect
The way Williams was chucking up 3’s is like how Tyreke drives
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