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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

What We Know About Tyreke Evans, And What We See

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Tyreke Evans is struggling to deliver consistently as a point guard right now; he is averaging 2.7 assists per game. This is well below his career average (5.6), so when you get itchy on start talking about Tyreke's point guard abilities and what this team needs, you need to ask whether he's struggling this much as a point guard because of the circumstances of the team and young season or whether he's actually become half the passer he was.

Star-divide

The Kings are by no stretch of the imagination a great passing team; as presently constructed, it's hard to imagine that the team will end up top-10 in assisted percentage. Four of the five starters and the top reserve guard are bird dogs: one of their best offensive talents is getting their own shots. It's like the opposite of the early '00s Kings teams, where everyone had a talent to get teammates shots.

So there we are right off the top: moreso than even recent incarnations of the Kings, this is a team full of players who create for themselves, largely.

The Kings have made 101 field goals, and have 40 assists. Sure enough, that's good for a league-worst 39 percent assisted percentage. Even at that low level, there are realities that are keeping Tyreke's assist numbers down. There are all of the free throws -- the Kings are taking tons of them, and while they aren't been converted at a high level, they a) are valuable to an offense and b) don't result in assists. The Kings are shooting terribly (42 percent), something that will surely improve. A missed shot doesn't result in an assist. Sacramento was an awful shooting team last year and still hit 45 percent of shots; they are at 42 percent this season.

Here's the biggest factor in Tyreke and the Kings' slow offensive start: the Bulls finished No. 1 in defensive rating last year. The Lakers finished No. 6. Portland was No. 14, and vastly improved on that end after the Gerald Wallace trade. Let's wait until the Kings offense matches up against a few, uh, Knicks and Wolves before we start determining that Evans' 2.7 assists per game through three games means more than 5.6 over two seasons.

The unfortunate part: the early schedule is heavy on solid defending team. After the Knicks, the Kings face New Orleans, Memphis, Denver, Milwaukee, Orlando and Philadelphia. Those were all solid defensive teams last season.

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Worried about his free throw shooting

Evans should be more worried about his selfishness, his passing, and his outside shooting more than his free throw shooting. Evans cannot distribute the ball and does not have the mindset or court sense or awareness to play point guard. He wants to take everything to the hole and finish and doesn’t know where his teammates are. Imagine a starting pg with 2.7 assists per game, enough said. Play Jimmer at the point and revamp this sorry team. I still can’t get past his 2 on 1 the other night with Fredette unguarded well ahead of the field and Evans completely guarded trying to make a circus shot over a heavily guarded defender instead of simply kicking the ball over for an easy layup. Plays like that say a lot about a player. Do you think Rose would have made that pass, I think so. Dump Evans from the point and get this team restructured now.

by bankers hours on Dec 31, 2011 7:47 AM PST reply actions  

That was a 3-on-1, actually. Which serves to amplify your point.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 31, 2011 7:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Like I said trade him

Maybe we can get Luke Ridnour or Jose Calderon for him. Real PGs. We might have to throw in DMC if we want andre miller.

Hey here’s a f*cking idea! If you wanted a real effing PG the why the F did we trade out of our pick to draft Jimmer freaking Freddette? Why didn’t we just stay there & draft Brandon Knight??

How about we stop blaming Tyreke for not being a damn PG & start blaming this front office/coaching staff for trying to force him to be one! Maybe we can turn Travis Outlaw into center. Or better yet we can turn MT23 into a small forward

by Allbenji on Dec 31, 2011 7:57 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Trade Evans *and* Cousins...

…for Andre Miller?

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

He's either trying to be really really funny

or he’s in peak New Year’s Eve form already

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

First

Yes I was joking

Second
I saw section drop a JFC on a fanshot so I saw that as my opportunity to lose it a little haha

by Allbenji on Dec 31, 2011 3:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Agree..

Think I would keep Cousins over Reke.. If I HAD to choose.

by Sincere P. on Dec 31, 2011 10:34 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

no way

trade him for andre miller, and if they want more throw in jimmer and a 1st.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Are you serious??

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I know

No way Denver does that deal unless you throw in DeMarcus too, and even that might be pushing it.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

We have to add the maximum cash considerations

And probably more picks…

But is it worth it?

Probably.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I did

It sounded terrible. Trade Cousins, Fredette, & a 1st round pick for Andre Miller. Yea, that’d be a terrible trade. Hense why I asked if he was serious. Thanks

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Of course he wasn't serious

Denver would need much more for Andre Miller than that paltry package.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

SMH

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I love all the leeway Cousins gets over Evans

This is our Center, who is shooting sub-40%. But Tyreke misses a shot or two from the wing and he sucks and we should trade him.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

ARE YOU EFFING OUTTA YOUR D*MN MIND??

WHY THE HELL WOULD THE KINGS GIVE UP BOTH OF THEIR YOUNG STARS FOR AN AGING 37 YEAR OLD PG WHO CAN’T EVEN BEAT OT TY LAWSON??

WHEN DID I MISS THE PART THAT ANDRE MILLER WAS JOHN STOCKTON, ISIAH THOMAS AND MAGIC JOHNSON ROLLED INTO ONE???

WHY WOULD THE KINGS DO THAT… JEEZ LOUISE… PLEASE MORE EDUCATED POSTS THAN THAT MAN… GAWD.

Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!

by kingme18 on Dec 31, 2011 3:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Sorry had to get that off my chest… haha.

Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!

by kingme18 on Dec 31, 2011 3:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

For a moment there

I was falling, but the insanity pulled me back up.

"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James

Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.

by DTG13 on Dec 31, 2011 8:42 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

he cannot play SG

because he cant play off the ball, and he cant shoot. And has shown that he will not commit to the defensive end. It is PG or nothing for Tyreke, thats why the team put him there, and thats why the team is trying to put shooters around him. I cant blame the front office on this one.

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

yes you can

Did you read what you just wrote

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

wut

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Are you sure?

What if I put a mattress with a lot of spring down there?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Wile E. Coyote fell of that shit a billion times

and was no worse for the wear.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

That's becuz Wile E Coyote is a pain pimp Mike.

Know yo role sucka!

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm impressed Mike.

That is perfect sarcasm, and that takes a lot to impress me on that front.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a defense mechanism

designed to prevent me from experiencing any actual human emotion. Comes in handy this time of year.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Totally unrelated sidenote..

…but I really liked your former sig even though I don’t particular care for Veganism. (My dad was a Vegan for awhile and the prospect of never using Olive Oil is not cool with me.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm pretty much just a vegetarian nowdays

People who can stick with veganism have my respect because the first couple months you are constantly saying WHAT? I CAN’T EAT/DRINK THIS EITHER?

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I also like meat....

….so I won’t ever be a vegetarian. My dad eats a little meat now, but he is mostly a vegetarian these days.

But yeah, the list of things you can’t eat is so much longer than what you can. It’s depressing really.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Once worked on an organic farm for a summer and was broke trying to get enough money to fix my car

so I was stuck eating what was on the farm and there were no cows, pigs, lambs, or chickens to be seen. I even ate dandelion soup.

Three months later, had a cheeseburger and got sick for two days because of it.

Screw being vegetarian.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL, yeah, pretty much

For me it’s strictly a dietary thing, and it’s gotten to a point where I don’t miss it too much, although I do occasionally miss a medium rare Porterhouse.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

speaking of

That was the plan for dinner. With absolutely nothing but a little seasoning and a bottle of syrah (okay maybe guiness).

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Took the wife to Ruth Chris

Before the home opener. Had the T-Bone.

Got the tickets as a Christmas gift from my dad.

It was the best day of my life.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I love a good steak

But for the price of Ruth Chris’s I wasn’t really a fan. I’d personally rather eat at Morton’s.

by HeuristicLineup on Dec 31, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Chops

Near 11th and L. Amazing.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I ate at Chops probably 5-6 years ago

Don’t really remember it, but I think I liked it LOL

by HeuristicLineup on Dec 31, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

The steak was great.

The game was better.

Yelled and screamed, and high fived and hugged with a guy next to me and never caught his name.

All while sandwiched between Laker fans.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Trade DMC for Miller?? No thanks

Not that I wouldn’t take Andre on the Kings. But I’m not gonna trade away Cousins. Too much good stuff to come with that guy. I with everything else you said tho. I thought we shoulda taken Kemba Walker but Knight woulda been the other choice hands down. If we wanted a scoring guard we probably shoulda gone with Marshon Brooks but point guard was what we needed and yet we still didn’t really draft one. There really was no need to be a part of that draft night trade either. We have no need for Salmons at all. I’m not even a big Beno fan but I don’t see the point in trading him for Salmons and moving down in the draft just to hook up Charlotte with 2 lottery picks and helping them to get rid of Stephen Jackson’s absurd contract. I’m a Jimmer fan but I really don’t think he was the best choice. If Evans ever decides he’s better off passing the ball and stacking as many assists as possible in a Rajon Rondo/Ricky Rubio fashion, then Fredette & Thornton will both get off and the Jimmer pick will look way better.

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

That's a crazy picture bro

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Wally...

..that’s so fucking a wicked rad dude! Is that like a Jackson Pollack breakfast picture or what man?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

So frickin narly!!

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Allbenji, I think you just set the record for "people chasm'd with a single post."

rec’d

"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."

by Wonderchild on Dec 31, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Either that, or you just got reverse-chasmed by about half the board.

It would be fun to figure out who got chasmed and who reverse-chasmed.

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly!

I feel like he’s a 2 guard who can make plays for other people occasionally. Which is good for a 2. Everyone mad at him for not being a point guard should instead be mad at the coach for playing him their.

by Chent on Dec 31, 2011 2:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Brother

You’re concentrating on three games of statistics while ignoring 129 games.

You’re concentrating on one play instead of the 1,000s from the past couple seasons.

Were the 5.6 assists per game the last two seasons a mirage?

by Tom Ziller on Dec 31, 2011 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Or

His 24.9 assist % and 14.9 turnover % last season. 26.1 assist % and 13.6 turnover % in his rookie season.

Maybe we compare him to Ty Lawson, a “for real” point guard taken in the same draft:

24.2% and 15.4% in his rookie season, and 28.3% and 14.8% in his second year.

Plus, Lawson didn’t have the pressure of being the savior of his franchise.

I think Tyreke’s going to be fine, I’m just not sure we have the right guy leading the way to get him there.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Tyreke was not billed to be someone to be compared to a ty lawson

But if thats where we’re setting the bar, by all means

by lchristmas on Dec 31, 2011 10:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Well I guess if he has to be LeBron James

Or Michael Jordan to be considered a sucsess then he’s a failure. How bout we let him be Tyreke Evans instead of the second coming of Oscar Robertson.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 10:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

That's fair

It’s just that many here see more and expect more and the franchise frankly needs him to be more.

"His D was a difference at the end."

by NewEraKings on Dec 31, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, maybe your resolution in 2012 should be to understand context

The question is whether he can effectively pass the ball, yet still do the stuff we saw in his rookie season (the ability to finish in the lane, rebound well, and succesfully defend multiple positions).

That’s what makes him potentially so special. His advanced numbers defy those who say he’s unable or unwilling to pass.

Nobody’s expecting Steve Nash. If you are, you’re bound to be disappointed.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't forget that Lawson had the luxury of playing behind Chauncey Billups for the most of 2 seasons.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

enough with the stat geek stuff

tell me right now who would you have running the point if you could, Ty Lawson Or Tyreke. Most people I think would go with Lawson

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

But I'd rather have Evans on defense

And that is part of the equation, and why the experiment continues. I might prefer Jose Calderon to run the offense, but I wouldn’t want him at the expense of Evans. Not yet, anyway.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

"Not yet, anyway."

Ha ha.

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Does Ty demand a double team

if not then Thornton needs to learn how to play as the #1 option. It took Mitch over a year, in his mind, to get used to be the focus of the other teams attention.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd rather have Tyreke as the lead guard

I think he gives you a huge mismatch in most areas due to his size.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

what is his advantage

He doesn’t post them up? He can shoot over them, but is that really an advantage? (when your a terrible shooter) All he really has is the ability to get to the rim, but can you honestly say he’s a great finisher. Just curious

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Obscurity

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

the unknown

came in in great shape. Big strong kid. Teams eventually figured out that his outside shot and desicion making didn’t improve, and just packed the paint. And have played that way ever since.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The stats are also the stats

They are uniform – assists per 100 opportunities and turnovers per 100 opportunities.

I’m not trying to say that Tyreke is a better “stereotypical” point guard than Ty Lawson, just that he’s not as bad as many here make him out to be.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

a little

teams seemed to just pack the paint the last couple of years, almost forcing him to pass out. He also had the ball in his hands alot more the last couple of seasons.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Jimmer hasn't shown the ability to consistently get by his own man

let alone proven he’s a starting point guard.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Wait do you mean that in three games you can’t prove much of anything?

by Rambaldi on Dec 31, 2011 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

But Jimmer can shoot the 3 so he must be a PG ElRon!!!!

Whatever do you mean?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Hasn't shown he can get into the paint?!?!

Aren’t we mad because he is passing up 3’s for drives into the…LANE! And his turnovers have occurred when he gets into the paint and is expecting a cutter that never comes. Honestly, he hasn’t had much difficulty getting in the paint.

by DWeissbart on Dec 31, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Most starting PG"s don't get by their own man on their own

Most use screens and pick & rolls. And, that’s the glaring difference between the Kings and other teams. Not only don’t our guards know how to run an effective P&R, but most of our bigs either set lousy picks or don’t know how to finish when they get feed the ball on the roll.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Dec 31, 2011 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate how sometimes

when you take a shit, the water hits your ass.

"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James

Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.

by DTG13 on Dec 31, 2011 8:47 AM PST via Android app up reply actions   4 recs

You're like the Obi Wan Kenobi of pooping

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Maybe

your gluteus maxiimus droops too close to the water.

by Bill2 on Dec 31, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe it's easier to practice your free throws at 2:30 AM than it is to get your teammates out there to practice passing drills at 2:30 AM

Fun fact: Jimmer is currently hoisting up more shots per minute than Tyreke.

There was probably a lot of good stuff in your post, but you lost me at “selfish,” as I do not believe that this is a word that can be properly applied to Evans and his game. Poor decisions? Yep. Some boneheaded mistakes? Absolutely. Selfish? Have not seen it. And I think that goes for the entire team, not just Evans.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

if he isn't selfish

he’s either stubborn or dumb as a rock

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

So what is Cousins excuse?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

here is my take

Tyreke is a stud no doubt about it. Nobody believes we should trade him. I just think he should play off the ball some more. Learn a post game, utilize his strenght. Be more of a slasher. hell even his 3 point shot doesn’t look to bad when he gets to spot up. Towards the end of last year if you remember he was getting alot of points on the break and moving without the ball. And regarding cousins I would say I love the way hes developing. You get the feeling he will be a force and an allstar- I just don’t see that with tyreke. And believe me ive been a season ticket holder for a while so i hope im wrong.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I would love for him

to play off guard more, and play kind of a Sidney Moncrief/Clyde Drexler sort of game.

by MichaelMack on Dec 31, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Tyreke has a post game.

He just doesn’t use it nearly enough. That was something I was hoping to see a lot of this year actually. As far as Reke vs Cuz, I would say both have an All-Star talent and only Reke has the real ability to be a franchise player.

But that’s my opinion here. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe you are, and more importantly, there is no real right or wrong in this deal anyway.

On the “moving without the ball point”, I think he can do that more than he does but hasn’t figured out to successful engage in doing so as of yet. There are so many things being thrown Reke’s way at this point it’s a bit hard to say exactly how successful he should be doing all of them. Has he been successful in all of it? Nope, by no long shot he has. I didn’t spend 5 hours going possession by possession ripping anyone else (greatly) other than Reke or Cuz for good reason; their laziness cost the Kings a chance at winning the game.

But who knows what will happen? That’s why the play the games right?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

i would love too see

move of Tyrekes post game. The team is gonna be good when they figure it all out. Hell If we win tonight and tomorrow, we will start the season 3-2 against 5 playoff teams from Last season, so heres to thinking positive.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

If the Kings are going to keep Evans, I would hope that at some point in time they realize he is best suited to be a small forward.

by ExPFCWintergreen on Dec 31, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Or still trying to learn a position that has never been natural to him

That of a facilitator.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

everbody sees the talent with Tyreke

I personally just think he’s playing at the wrong spot. At times you see flashes of greatness from the guy on both ends. I think with the ball in his hands maybe he’s just doing to much thinking.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I could envision Fredette becoming the PG and Thornton the 2 guard, with Evans as the 3 forward. I hope that Westphal could move toward that lineup soon

by ExPFCWintergreen on Dec 31, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Here's some Fun Facts for the SSI

Chuck Hayes has the highest Assist Rate on the team followed by Jimmer.

For those not familiar with that stat. It is your total number of assists divided by your scoring attempts plus turnovers. In Chucks case it’s because he doesn’t try to score much and doesn’t turnover the ball much. In Jimmer’s case it’s because he’s tied with Tyreke in total assists at 8, and has taken 7 fewer shots. So, his Assist to Points ratio is higher.

Another fun fact: Salmons and Outlaw have a APER’s below 5. No one else is below 10 with Thornton leading the team with 19 followed by Thompson then Cousins who are both a little over 18.5.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Dec 31, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I was about to write this

you need to ask whether he’s struggling this much as a point guard because of the circumstances of the team and young season or whether he’s actually become half the passer he was.

“I don’t think people are so much worried about that but the same stuff from the last two years whether it’s worth worrying about or not.”

but then I read this comment above. Nevermind!

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

We covet what we see.

“It passes the ball when it needs to on a fast break. It does this whenever it is told. "

“It passes the ball to its friend, or else it gets the hose again.”

PUT THE FUCKING BALL IN THE BASKET!

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 31, 2011 7:48 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Westphal

The answer is always Westphal.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

DAMMIT!

Now it looks like I’m saying Westphal is walking around with a man-gina…

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

tyreke and westphal

i put a lot of the blame on westphal. he should enforce a mark w tyreke. simple stuff like never ever take a three point shot, never jump off your feet without having a dunk ir pass already planned. those missteps should have been addressed. westphal is no disciplinarian.

by Bendacorna on Dec 31, 2011 8:05 AM PST via Android app reply actions  

No fair hogging all the glory by writing a good article AND having the best comments.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.

Which I will eat.

by andy sims on Dec 31, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

TZ = Selfish = Tyreke Evans

No wonder Ziller is defending him – Ziller is Evans. Evans is Ziller.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Don't forget the MD Code Red....

I’ve been loyal ever since the Webber commercial.

"I have talent that's there, but I just have the mentality right now that I just want to be the greatest. And I don't think that any other player has that right now." -DeMarcus Cousins

by Noble_Bloodlines on Dec 31, 2011 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Ziller

Finkle or Einhorn?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Goddammit I hit start before I could finish this. Oh well....

..the 3rd part of the now ruined joke….is

Yep. They look the same to me.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

COME ON PEOPLE!!!

OH MY GOD PEOPLE!!! CAN WE AT LEAST WAIT TELL THEY HAVE PLAYED MORE THAN THREE GAMES BEFORE YOU JUMP TO ANY DRASTIC CONCLUSIONS?? DO ALL YOU PEOPLE THINK THREE GAMES IS A FAIR SAMPLE SIZE?

by Rambaldi on Dec 31, 2011 8:10 AM PST reply actions  

Sorry about that TZ I was just pissed

I hope you revisit this topic later in the season when Evan’s assist totals go way up.

by Rambaldi on Dec 31, 2011 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Lol

But I agree with you completely.

"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James

Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.

by DTG13 on Dec 31, 2011 8:45 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Yes

We all know for a fact we are going 22 and 44 for the season and be the best team in the league at defending the 3.
Just extrapilate man, its easy. The future is clear. No team or player has ever adjusted their style of play after 3 games into a season.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Since the start of the downfall

the mantra has always been from the noisy minority…“Trade our best player!”.
Its Evans turn on the conveyor belt.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 8:43 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

OK then,

trade him for Kenyon Martin. Trade him for LaRue Martin. Trade him for Aston Martin. But there is a cancer on this team, and it needs to be cut out before it takes up anymore of the team’s valuable 2 AM gym time.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Tyreke is merely plugging his skills into the Kings offensive system.

Hollinger describes what I saw last night – "Every half-court Kings play is a torturous isolation. Whoever’s “turn” it is goes to the basket and passes only as a last resort when his path is cut off. This was partly true a year ago too, but Sacramento just keeps importing more players like this — in the past year the Kings imported Thornton, Outlaw, John Salmons, J.J. Hickson and Jimmer Fredette. The only willing passer on the team is Chuck Hayes, and he gets the ball only when it bounces off the rim to him."

by Phil Perspective on Dec 31, 2011 9:37 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Hollinger Hyperbole!!!!!!! Ain't it.......special?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Well he's wrong

Jimmer has been a very willing passer. JJ Hickson has been smart in his shot selection. Marcus Thornton should look to shoot as much as possible. As long as he’s getting quality looks, he should fire away.

The characterization of Travis Outlaw and John Salmons as shot-hungry players who pass as last resort is accurate.

Our team offense has looked torturous, at times, but not everyone is to blame.

"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.

by bench_blob on Dec 31, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Jimmer

is a willing passer, but he does like to dribble, dribble, dribble, and set up his own shot or pass. The “my turn” philosophy he was referring to.

One thing i have noticed about The Jimmer, when he makes a shot, the next one is going up very quick, if he misses, he wont shoot again right away, probably something he picked up in college and I think with Evans, Cousins, and Thornton, he doesnt have the leash to miss twice in a row.

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Jimmer's shown flashes of PG ability

but he’s also been getting trapped and hasn’t been passing quickly enough when teams flash the double team. I’m sure he’ll get better with time, though. At the very least, it’s encouraging that he attracts so much defensive attention, and when he develops a better knack for finding the open man when teams play him that way, it should result in open and easy buckets.

by LPKingsFan on Dec 31, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

My frustration with Tyreke so far

is that he is down in nearly every category this year.
The most glaring are:

14% 3 point shooting.
50% free throw shooting.
2 Rebounds per game.
2.7 assists (accompanied by 2 TO’s) per game.
14.3 PPG on 11.7 attempts per game.

In comparison, look at Brandon Jennings so far this year:

29% 3 point shooting.
85% free throw shooting.
2.7 Rebounds per game.
5.3 assists (accompanied by 2 TO’s) per game.
22.7 PPG on 16.7 attempts per game.

Tyreke had 1 great year, was hurt last year, and was supposed to come back this year showing off that year 1 was no fluke.
So far he has been a disappointment and I would rather have a guy like Stephen Curry or Brandon Jennings, both of who were available and had tried out for the Kings in the ’09 draft.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and its unfair to say that Petrie should have selected either of those 2 guards, (or Rubio for that matter), but the writing was on the wall from day 1 with Tyreke. Everyone in the nation questioned whether or not he could be a True PG.

I’m personally ready to chalk this experiment up as a failure and would move Tyreke over to Small Forward, put MT23 at the 2 and Jimmer at the 1.

In closing, Brandon Jennings is excelling this year, Tyreke is not.
Its obvious we need to blame John Salmons.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 9:47 AM PST reply actions  

Jennings shot 38% over his first two years

Members of this site would have already roasted him on an open pit for that.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I don't think I could be a Kings fan if he was on our team

I dislike everything that comes out of that guys mouth. He did score 55 one time though!!!

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's the thing

When you draft a guy like Jennings (a year out of high school, no college ball), you know that you are taking a risk, and that it will take time to develop him. Similarly, when you draft a kid a year out of college, and set to converting him into a point guard because you like his overall skill set and physical tools, you know that you are taking a risk, and that it will take time to develop him.

We’ve had folks banging the NaPG drum since his rookie year, and who knows, they may eventually wind up being right. But the rush to judgment has me perplexed. This is not to say that Evans should be above criticism – he should not. But write him off? Far too soon for that, in my opinion.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

3 things

Here are the 3 things that did not happen in 3 games played but better happen in the 4th.

1. Want to see at least 2 people touch the ball on fast breaks (Reke!!)
2. Reke!! needs to start looking for his teammates more when driving to the basket
3. Reke!! push the damn ball in transitions, enough with always walking the ball up court

PUHD!
ksh

by kendogfunky on Dec 31, 2011 9:48 AM PST reply actions  

I like how everybody is forgetting the fast breaks that Reke did pass the ball

because of the 1 he didn’t. There was the one where he passed to Marcus, and Marcus passed right back and Reke got to the line. There was another one as well that I can remember.

Every little thing wrong he does is magnified times 1000 and everything he does right is just “well he should have done that anyway so it’s not special”

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I definitely agree with #3

Tyreke should take the rebound or outlet and sprint everytime up the court. If we don’t have numbers, pull it back and set up the offense, but put pressure on the defense in transition. His greatest asset is his driving ability, and it’s most effective before the defense has a chance to set up and pack the paint.

If he could learn to do this, I think he would add 2-3 buckets/free throws a night to his scoring average without much trouble, and it isn’t terribly difficult to do. He should watch Jason Kidd. He always does this and it inevitibly gets him or his team some easy buckets when someone on defense gets caught sleeping.

by R-Man on Dec 31, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

issue

The problem with a 3 guard rotation is size. Portland killed us with theirs. And now we have a 6’5 Center. No shot blockers, small guards, not good. Normally a team goes small for speed, but the Kings don’t push the ball and just not that quick.

PUHD!
ksh

by kendogfunky on Dec 31, 2011 9:53 AM PST reply actions  

OKOs TAKES

I was gonna write a fanpost on this but ill post here. Ill start with the 3 on 1 break everyone is talking about. One of two things, either Tyreke would rather go to the line, than take an easy assist (Not good), or Tyreke is not aware enough to see or know to pass in that situation (Not good). If your franchise PG does not want to, or else doesnt understand he is supposed to give a teammate an easy layup, especially a shooter that often uses a layup to get confindence, then I cant say that is a franchise PG i want to build a team around. I get this is only the 3rd game together, and no practice, but nobody can say we havent seen this before from Tyreke on the break.

Moving forward, take a look at Phil Perspectives post above, exactly what I was thinking during the game. Players waiting for their turn. This team is full of “Alpha scorers” on offense, guys that want the ball, to make a play, instead of being a part of the offense and make a play when it presents itself.

Jimmer and MT are gunners, and Good Cuz has a world of potential as long as Bad Cuz doesnt keep him on the bench with dumb fouls. Jimmer and MT and Cuz also are not good defenders, so this team is desperate for a pass first offensive player, that brings it on D. Can Tryeke be that guy? Of course he can, hes the longest PG in the league and has the tools to be an elite defender and to create for his teammates. Will he be that guy? It remains to be seen.

If some shots start falling, FTs included, and the wins start coming, the team will start passing more and looking for each other in the offense. I know its early, so im not gonna use any statistics, but if it cant work, the top players that come to mind that would fit that role, Rondo (if Boston starts 6-16 or something and has an injury to a Big 3 player, and decides the run is over), Collison (we trick them that its a chemisty issue and Evans is an upgrade for Indy), Heinrich (Atlanta is capped out, issue is Heinrich isnt a true pg)

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 9:58 AM PST reply actions  

There is no way in hell Indy wouldn't trade Tyreke for Darren Collison.

They do that quicker than you can say “yes”.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

If the season goes to hell

I wouldn’t mind Collsion and Paul George for Tyreke. Maybe Indy throws in a pick also. I would save this move for an emergency after the season tho.

by SharkKings49 on Dec 31, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I doubt Indy throws in the pick.

For George and Collison? You bet they do that.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Larry Bird said George was untradable

I know this is fictional, but just saying. I wouldnt put George in any trade scenario.

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Larry Bird can say whatever he wants.

For the right player Paul George is absolutely tradeable.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Tyreke

I would think of our 4 primary offensive players that Tyreke is the most tradable. Cuz has the most superstar potential, Sac loves Thornton and his contract is an issue, and Jimmer has played 3 games and isnt going anywhere

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I actually like that trade.

I also believe that there is NO WAY that Indy does it.

There team is clicking for the first time in a long time. Why would they mess with it? Collison is giving them 7 assists a game and is young. George is only 21 and does everything well aside from shoot for percentage – his shooting issues are clearly about selection and not form as he is nails from the FT line and hits threes at a good clip.

I think Indy tells up to ‘pound sand’ over that trade.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Great.

But that doesn’t mean Indy wouldn’t trade Collison & George for a young near superstar (by many accounts) in Tyreke Evans while he is at the ripe old age of 22.

Sorry your logic does not compute with how teams do business. Besides this is moot because the Kings wouldn’t trade Tyreke for either of those two or as a package.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Your post is only valid if Indy agrees with your perception of Tyreke Evans.

There is NO WAY Tyreke should even be mentioned in the same sentence with ‘superstar’ right now.

The real bet is on what he will become. My money is on journeyman.

Don’t presume to know what other front offices know or think. I appreciate that you have beliefs about basketball, I also think you state them as if they are absolute. That is not the case.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I also think you state them as if they are absolute.

Holy crap, that made me laugh.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Your post is only valid if Indy agrees with yours.

I appreciate that your full of shit when stating what I think, but in no way shape or form do you have any real understanding of what my actual basketball beliefs are.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Nor do I care.

I just comment on the way you conduct yourself where you treat those on this board that don’t agree with you with disdain (usually as though they have no basketball knowledge.)

I don’t feel that my take on your board demeanor is imaginary, and I have seen multiple posters call you out for the same thing. Maybe it isn’t a true representation on what you believe or feel, however it is how you represent yourself on this board.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Than why did you bring it up in the first place if you don't care?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

i would not say that for sure

but thats your opinion. I think they really like Collison, and see themselves as a team on the rise. Do you think Collison is a better fit with Jimmer and MT than Evans currently is?

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Nope.

I think what the Kings need is a franchise player, and Collison doesn’t fit that bit at all in any way. It’s not to say I dislike Darren Collison because I do like Collison actually. It’s just that in my opinion, what constitutes quality value is not a pure PG, SG and so on and so forth. I think that’s a bunch of rubbish so people can feel comfortable in understanding what a players strengths and weaknesses.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Early evidence to the contrary

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention no team treats like Cuz like a superstar..

…but many teams already treat Reke that way. But what are details when hyperbole is so much easier!

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

What is civility when being obnoxious is so much easier!

There is NO detail which you have proven.

Your opinion is just that – opinion, and remarkably it always falls on the side of defending your viewpoint about Tyreke. Right now all Tyreke opinions are just that – there is only conjecture. Time will show whether you are correct or not. I will be very interested in your take if you are incorrect about Evans.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Since the future has not been written yet

I always assume that everyones vision of Tyreke’s place in the league in future years is always their own opinion, no matter how confidently it was made.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Some people seem to be missing the obvious

thought it was needed.
The sky is blue and water is wet.
Let that be a lesson to you.

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not fair ElRon.

You’re making sense again. Don’t you know we’re supposed to run with hyperbole for hyperbole’s sake here? Tyreke can’t run an offense, he’s an idiot because he’s not Jimmer Fredette and had the nerve to enter the NBA Draft when he was 19, can’t shoot, only cares about his stats, has no interest in passing to other players in an empty gym at 2 am. You know, that kind of stuff.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Which is why I don’t see the need for the lack of civility.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

You are right.

I’m only interested in an asskissing viewpoint about Tyreke. Oh wait, wrong. Now shut the fuck up about what I think already.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Dial it back...

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Sure.

Because I’m going around telling others what opinions they can’t and can’t sure. This is horeshit in both your interpretation and others telling me what when where and how I can say it.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Telling another member to shut the fuck up is unacceptable, pookey

That’s not an interpretation. Those are the site guidelines. Your future here is your call, based on your ability to stay within the guidelines.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

For what it’s worth, I read your blog post about the Bulls game and liked it. I thought it was fair and honest. I’m not sure why you get so riled by my disagreements with your posts here, but I don’t think your takes are worthless.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with your opinion. You are entitled to it.

But when you tell me what my opinion is when you don’t clearly understand it is not something I accept or tolerate.


Your opinion is just that – opinion, and remarkably it always falls on the side of defending your viewpoint about Tyreke.
This is what I take issue with.

Right now all Tyreke opinions are just that – there is only conjecture.

This I do not have a problem with nor any disagreement over.

Good luck to you Mike. No hard feelings at all.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Likewise.

I did not mean that there is no nuance to your opinion. I overstated your position.

Despite the numerous ‘takes’ on this site, we all sometimes lose sight of the fact that we all are Kings fans, and want what is best for the franchise.

(Just for the record, I DO hope that I am wrong about Tyreke. If he becomes what we all want him to be, I’d gladly be proven incorrect.)

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't agree.

I think DMC is pretty Bob Lanier-like.

Cousin’s issues to my mind are a product of poor coaching at this level. He has all of the tools, including the ones that you just don’t find in big men very often. I’d love to see him with a big man coach year round. I want to know why we stick with Westphal – Adelman would have had DMC at 5 assists per game already. We need him to SLOW DOWN on offense. How many of his misses this year come on rushed put-back attempts? If he pump fakes and tries to dunk he gets fouled.

I don’t in any way see Evans as somehow more valuable to us than DMC. In addition the DMC’s of the world are much tougher to find.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

have a hard time seeing 5 assists only because that is so incredibly difficult but yeah not going to lie I wouldn't mind seeing someone coaching him

one thing he does though that isn’t about having to slow down though is that drive and hook he tries to do and every single time the defender sees it coming and gets in position and takes the charge. I feel like he gets an offensive foul once or twice a game on that move. I have zero clue how he can fix that but it sure seems like he has done it a lot.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Cousins has poor coaching, but not Evans?

Okay then.

And the DMC’s of the world are not that tough to find. What you think DMC will become is more difficult to find. The question is, will he get there? I’m sold less on him being able to get to his max potential than Tyreke.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't say that.hocking

Please don’t put words in my mouth if you don’t agree with something I have said. I have openly called for Westphal’s job for two years now. I lobbied hard for Larry Brown last year as he is usually pretty good at developing discipline in PGs, aside from being a big success at most of the stops in his long career – that isn’t to say that there aren’t serious concerns about bringing him in (admittedly – there are.)

I won’t really get into arguing about DMC, as I don’t disagree that his potential as a player in the NBA is not necessarily supported by his first year numbers IMO. I will say that his Kentucky numbers are SHOCKING for a player of his age and size. I mean historically ‘shocking.’ He was the most efficient player in NCAA basketball as a freshman on a team where there were 5 first round draft picks.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm weird with big men

I am not sure what is more rare or whatever (I know the old saying about centers are rare and wings are easiest to find but I have no idea if it’s anything more than the NBA equivalent of an old wives tale) but personally I think that it doesn’t take long to figure out which big men have some phenominal talent despite the fact they foul too much or struggle a bit in man to man d or in footwork. Not saying they are great early on, just seems fairly easy to big guys who can be pretty good if they work on their fundamentals a little bit.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Now thats an intersting wat to start a conversation Wally!

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

hahah

How did I not catch that the 1st time

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

The fast breaks are an interesting issue

Against the Bulls, there were a couple times I thought his reluctance to pass was misguided, but then on the replay I noticed that Hamilton was getting back quickly enough that he might have broken up a potential pass to the trailing Thornton. Evans is usually so good at finishing near the rim I’m reluctant to criticize him too much for attacking on the break, unless the defender is clearly honing in on him and leaving his teammates open. Of course, he’s been getting fouled in these situations, and needs to start knocking down the FTs to make it work. Hopefully the 2AM practice sessions will start helping.

by LPKingsFan on Dec 31, 2011 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

What bothered me most about the whole 3 on 1 deal...

…was that he didn’t even give himself a chance to pass once he took the ball around the world. That was incredibly stupid not to mention selfish.

Worst thing he did all night, and given how poor Tyreke was in transition defense all night that’s saying something.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

all better

Oh, but Reke worked on his free throws, I feel better all ready. How bout bring in some teammates, and running some plays. The premise of this team was to build around Reke, a guy who will can drive and kick with the best of them. How about practicing with 400 pass and dish plays, instead of 400 free throws. Free throws will come around, he won’t shoot 50% all season. I’m not ready to give up on him, love what he could bring to this team, just needs to improve.

PUHD!
ksh

by kendogfunky on Dec 31, 2011 10:02 AM PST reply actions  

My guess is that the gym is available to all players at all hours

Tyreke was the only one that showed up at 2 AM to work on his game.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Jimmer was tired from his shooting brilliance...

….so he had to lay it down at 2am for a couple hours. He just missed Tyreke by a few minutes cuz he got back up at 4am and hasn’t stopped shooting since. Oh my Jimmah!

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

call

call them, leader!

PUHD!
ksh

by kendogfunky on Dec 31, 2011 10:07 AM PST reply actions  

Maybe he did

And maybe he has. Do you know differently?

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Dec 31, 2011 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

agree with you on this Section

he was pissed about his performance at the line and wanted to work on it, end of story.

by OKO on Dec 31, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I am amazed you find it amazing 214.

I figured you’d have heard it all by now.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I find no fault with him doing that

I question those who use it as evidence that he is willing to do or will ever do what it takes to be a winning team player. I’m glad hes embarrassed by that shooting. He should be.

by lchristmas on Dec 31, 2011 10:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

my uneducated concern with Reke

is that he’s not quite focused when he trains. And I only say that because I’ve seen a few of the videos of him working out with great players like Westbrook and Rose and great trainers but even in the videos his fundamentals just don’t look as sharp when he’s practicing.

I dunno, hard to explain and perhaps full of bias. It just kind of reminds of when Beasley had all those training videos showing him working out insane ass hours doing crazy ass training techniques that just didn’t really look like there was much of a purpose. It looked like he put in the time and work effort but wasn’t smart about what he was doing.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I can see this being a real problem Wally.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Are you being sincere Nate?

Because I could see this being a problem too. Working hard and working smart are not the same thing.

by MichaelMack on Dec 31, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

really?!

lets focus on passing the ball. Don’t care what happend at 2am. Pass when driving the ball during games, that’s it

PUHD!
ksh

by kendogfunky on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM PST reply actions  

Passing Stat

I wish there was a passing stat that tracked how many times a player passed the ball after getting it. I think this would show how “selfish” a player really is. There are many cases when a player passes the ball and the other player doesn’t make a shot or passes again. I think this kind of stat would really show us which players are “selfish”.

I have thought about watching the last 3 games with a clip board in my lap to tally how many times Tyreke touched the ball and how many times he passed it. And then do it with Jimmer or any other player to see how it compares.

by Passive Sloth on Dec 31, 2011 10:31 AM PST reply actions  

Jeez

Put Tyreke around players that will consistently make shots his assist totals will skyrocket. Tyreke had 2 triple doubles and 3 other times he came close to do it again his rookie year do you really wanna trade away that kind of talent. Remember we did it before and Tuesday against Portland it bit us in the ass. My main problem is not with his assits totals cause they will improve when players around him start making shots. The biggest problem with Tyreke is he get scared like he is a 6’1 point guard with bullshit layups. He needs to go in strong like a D Rose or Russel Westbrook nd Dunk the ball he is 6’6 or 6’7 man then teams will not get his way as much and he won’t get block as much and teams will start to consider him a threat. I mean he is a layup Houdini, but man a team and fans need to be excited by ur play not with those wanna be pretty lay ups all the time. I want tyreke to show emotion get a technical foul once in a game, dunk the ball with authority to me, get his team fired up. To me I think he is too passive when it comes to his game
Tyreke played his best with another playmaker remember but we traded Beno to Milwaukee dumb move. the backourt should have been BENO/TYREKE AND KEMBA/THORTON but stupid front office dnt know how to manage a team. Idk about you guys I am tired of sitting here making other teams better while all we get is crap in return. We need to stop getting playmakers who are ball hogs and gets some roleplayers/shotmakers beacause right now 4 of our starters all want to be the “Star”. Paul W has a talented team but doesn’t know how to coach look at George Carl for Denver he has basically trash on his team except for like 2 or 3 players and he still finds a way to win so its not in the players its in the coaching jeez. What is smart is to Establish the post game by feeding Cousins be4 he gets into foul trouble then the paints get crowded where he can kick it out to open 3 point shooters like Outlaw/Freddete/Salmons/Thorton then when three are starting to fall and DMC is out the game the lanes are open for Tyreke to do his thing. Nd if players make there shots Kings can blow teams out cause there defense isnt that bad. I belueve Kings can have 3 legitimate Allstars Tyreke,Thorton,And Cousins and a six man of the year candidate in Jimmer Fredette but to reach those goals they got to work together. Like the 05 Detroit Pistons or the 09 Celtics and this year Heat who all had talented players who could lead a team by themselves. but thoses players that were Stars managed to fix there game off each other where everyone could succeed and win a championship.

by stovallsamuel on Dec 31, 2011 10:40 AM PST reply actions  

Maybe his teammates would start making shots...

…if he’d call them at 2 AM to come to the gym.

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Um

You think jimmer and marcus thornton aren’t great shooters? This team is perfectly set up for tyreke to be a distributor. very early reviews on his willingness to do so are quite shitty.

And the reason tyreke doesn’t throw down explosive dunks in traffic like a russell westbrook is because he is just not that type of leaper

by lchristmas on Dec 31, 2011 10:45 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I watch all three games Jimmer could have three or four more asists too if his team made shots. Nd yes some pass are late but sometime Jimmer gets scared of all the pressure nd doesn’t do what he does best one game he didn’t even take a three when he had about 3open shots. Marcus Thornton likes to do it all on his own so even if pass to he tries to create his own shot instead of just taking wt the defense gives him

by stovallsamuel on Dec 31, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

okay I don't think Ichristmas is concerned about Reke getting his assists totals up to last year (and could be wrong)

either way, Reke didn’t struggle with ball movement last year because of his teammates inability to shoot and if he does struggle this year it will be highly unlikely it will because the team can’t shoot. And I don’t think most people believe Tyreke’s assists will stay where they are now.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Jimmer will be a great shooter

Thornton is not currently

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Tough to make a shot

When the ball is passed to you at the last second from a guy who jumped in the air and threw it to you like it was a game of hot potato!

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Are you talking about 'Reke or Jimmer here?

Because the same comment is applicable to both players at the moment. The fact that you mentioned a last second pass eliminated Salmons.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Haha! Salmons, yeah...

I’ll give Jimmer a pass though, since he is a Rookie and was thrown into this dysfunction rather quickly. I think he is very frustrated right now.

If you look back at our draft selections for 2009, I was all in on Tyreke from the get go. I was even more so after his rookie campaign. I was very frustrated with him last year though, and this year it appears to be more of the same. I am not ready to throw in the towel on the guy, I just want to see some MENTAL growth.
We all know he has a superior physique, but sometimes I cant help but scream at my tv “are you a flipping moron!?” when has has the ball.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree. Tyreke is lacking the desire of a Elite player he has all the tools to be one but he doesn’t have the attitude of one. I think Jimmer should just do what he knows how to do take two steps over half court and launch.

by stovallsamuel on Dec 31, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

My personal opinion of Jimmer

Is that he has taken the criticisms from the media and scouts to heart ,(Gunner, not gonna be a passer, NaPG, etc..) and is trying, albeit uncomfortably, to prove them wrong. He is making the necessary adjustments to grow into the PG position.

Tyreke on the other hand seems to think the position will mold around his style of play, and that seems to be the biggest issue. He doesn’t appear to be as willing to adapt. Maybe he can’t, I don’t know.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I think that is a pretty fair assessment/guess.

I would totally agree that I don’t see any stylistic change in Tyreke’s game in the past 2+ years.

I have been impressed by Jimmer so far (and I really didn’t expect to be).

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

To be honest

Put Tyreke around players that will consistently make shots his assist totals will skyrocket. Tyreke had 2 triple doubles and 3 other times he came close to do it again his rookie year do you really wanna trade away that kind of talent. Remember we did it before and Tuesday against Portland it bit us in the ass. My main problem is not with his assits totals cause they will improve when players around him start making shots.

I really don’t think the Kings are unique in the art of missing jump shots.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Should also add

That the Kings didn’t trade away GW, he was picked up in the expansion draft when the team had more talent then it could protect at the time.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

< / Closes eyes and pretends you didn’t actually willingly open up the Gerald Wallace of Pandora Boxes >

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

?

Was just stating that the previous poster suggested the Kings traded him away.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

My bad Dirkula.

Wrong person that was intended towards.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd

As in; “I’d truly wreck that.”

Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile

by Balky Needs on Dec 31, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Greene'd

for the total package.

Purveyor of Bull Plop

by SayWhat? on Dec 31, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct.

The infuriating thing about this move was that they easily could have kept Wallace.

Again – I certainly could be incorrect here, but Webber should have been left unprotected because at the time he had (I believe) the second biggest contract in basketball. I believe we had just re-signed him to a 126 million dollar deal. There was likely no way in hell that an expansion team was going to take on that contract right out of the gate. We should have left Webber exposed and protected Wallace. I fully believe that the sole reason that we didn’t was that we were extremely good at the time, and thought that Wallace’s loss would be marginal – and also (the bad reason) I believe that Webber would have taken his exposure as an insult regardless of what it would have meant for the team.

Basically I believe that we let Wallace go to assuage Webber’s ego. He was always an insecure guy – all of the way back to his Michigan days.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

we could have left Webber unprotected

But it would have destroyed his ego, you’re right, he would have demanded a trade and the whole team would have imploded. Or we could have just left Wallace exposed and lost a guy who at the time was maybe a potential 6th man guy for this team.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention Mike

It would have been a 126 Million dollar gamble as opposed to a rookie scale salary gamble. I would have made them same choice the Kings did had it been my business.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Webber was only a couple of dozen games back from his injury at the time of the draft

I don’t think that it could be completely determined at that time whether he was going to come back more or not. So the risk/reward was dangle your franchise player out there or a guy that had averaged about 3 and 2 for you over three years. At the time, there was no decision to make. You don’t risk losing your franchise player to retain an unknown quantity.

Hindsight is 20/20.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

If he had that same surgery now

He would probably be jumping higher then pre-surgery.

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

probably

he’d probably still be playing (maybe not in Sacramento)

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I think all of your takes are fair, but I don't agree with them.

It would have been a gamble – but a VERY small one. I can’t imagine an expansion team taking a titanic contract as its first move.

Wallace could have been the small forward that we have been looking for for a decade.

I don’t think it was as clear-cut as you are making it. I know MANY people who were bothered by the decision at the time. Still, you aren’t wrong that to most Webber was seen as indispensable.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

But you're looking at Wallace today, not Wallace of that era

He had mad hops, but his shooting range was 2 feet and in. And he was stuck behind Peja, and he was not big enough at that time to stretch to the 4. He never got anything but garbage time here. Fans loved him for his athletic ability, but he brought very little to the team. That’s not the kind of guy that makes a franchise expose their franchise player, unless they are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the franchise player is done.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

True enough...

…but as Petrie drafted him, I doubt that he didn’t feel that he was going to be something.

We DID see things from him in his time here. I don’t think anyone thought that he wouldn’t be a player. I for one was PISSED at the time we left him exposed.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

MT23 and Jimmer

I watch all three games Jimmer could have three or four more asists too if his team made shots. Nd yes some pass are late but sometime Jimmer gets scared of all the pressure nd doesn’t do what he does best one game he didn’t even take a three when he had about 3open shots. Marcus Thornton likes to do it all on his own so even if pass to he tries to create his own shot instead of just taking wt the defense gives him

by stovallsamuel on Dec 31, 2011 10:53 AM PST reply actions  

The same could be said of Evans

He has set up Salmons, Fredette and Thornton for 3’s that they have missed. Not often enough, but it has happened to him, too.

My frustration is that there are ample excuses for any mistake that Jimmer and Thornton make, but Evans seems to have zero wiggle room. I too question whether he will form into a lead guard for this team, but I cannot believe the amount of negative focus that is coming down on him while everyone else on the roster seems to get a pass (no pun intended). Anyone that has watched the games understands that Evans is not running each and every set – Thornton and Fredette and Thomas have run the offense, too, and all with very similar results.

I will be very disappointed if the current level of play from Evans continues, but he ain’t rowing this boat alone. The entire roster is performing below expectations (with the possible exception of JT, who has played fairly well in his minutes). Thornton had a great opening night, a horrid second game, and a meh 3rd game. Jimmer has promise but to be honest he has not excelled in any manner. Cousins has played well overall but is shooting horribly.

The current level of offensive play (I note offense because they have played reasonably well on the defensive end) is one everyone – every player and every coach. It does not rest solely on the shoulders of Evans. That does not change the fact that he needs to play much better, too.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

My frustration is that there are ample excuses for any mistake that Jimmer and Thornton make, but Evans seems to have zero wiggle room.

I don’t have a problem with giving excuses for Jimmer actually. It is after all just 3 games into his career. However, I think what is more concerning isn’t excuses for him but already annointing him as somehow going to figure it out and already better than others.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah this is my greater issue too

.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Thirded

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think your wrong, but...

As for me, I know I’’m really hard on Evans because of what he is expected to be. It seems to me that people WANT him to be a star so badly that they are overly forgiving of huge problems that he is showing in his game. It is the burden of expectation why he doesn’t get a pass. I completely admit that the issues with the Kings go far beyond just Tyreke Evans, but at the same time, if he is being made out to be the star of the franchise, I think it is fair to focus the most criticism on him.

Now, I could be completely wrong about Tyreke. I’ve been wrong before, and will again, but I’m very disturbed in the things I’m seeing in his game. There are not many players who veer off of a curve of progress like Tyreke, and come back stronger. I certainly hope he is an exception.

As for Jimmer – he has been OK. I’m still not convinced that Kemba Walker wouldn’t have been a better fit, but Jimmer certainly shows promise.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

what is he expected to be?

As Wally said earlier if the problem is that Tyreke isn’t meeting the fanbase’s expectation it may say more about the fanbase than it does about Tyreke.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It absolutely says more about us the fanbase

Than it does Tyreke.

He is struggling right now, as is most of the team.

We are frustrated by it because unlike the last few years, there was hope for this team at the beginning of the year. There is still hope to me.

We are frustrated because we all wanted to buy into the idea that he was THE guy. Perhaps he still is. Still way to early to tell.

With all of the expectations born out of his terrific rookie campaign, it’s understandable why we want to make him the Anakin to our Obi-Wan.

But lets at least wait until he chokes out Padme a teammate before we throw him into a volcano.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I just don't get how if we lose to the Blazers and Bulls

we’re suddenly horrible and can’t defend anyone. Yes the blazers second half was disappointing and so was the transition defense in the bulls game, yes the ft shooting has been atrocious, but I was pretty sure we were gonna start the season 0-4 and still win 35 games. We’re not gonna know anything about this team until after February.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

????

I don’t agree with this (I don’t think).

Are you saying that fans criticizing players is wrong? I don’t disagree that fans shouldn’t presume to know the psychological character of a player, but they are certainly entitled to criticize the play of a player.

I want to clarify one thing – I don’t wish Tyreke any ill at all. I am posting my thoughts. I readily concede that I could be wrong. You are correct – it IS very early to judge. I am just posting what I think right now. I see very worrisome trends in Tyreke (at least I THINK I do.) As a Kings fan I am just posting what I think right now. I could certainly be incorrect.

by Hoops Mike on Dec 31, 2011 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

All I'm Really Saying

Is that if the whole team did a better job at the line and in transition and the team were 2-1, I doubt that we would be having this conversation.

The fact is, expectations for the team were higher than they have been. We, as a fan base are tired of watching a young, frustrating team trying like hell to figure it out with a coaching staff that may not be right for the current group of guys.

We want to blame someone and sure, you look at your best player, but you have to look at everything else and consider a plethora of other circumstances that have lead to where both the team, and Tyreke are.

Nobody is above criticism and at the end of the day, outside of the people who are ACTUALLY wanting to trade him and think the sky is falling, most of us are just spit balling different ideas and opinions regarding the matter.

I just wish to remain patient and let’s see how it all plays out.

Sure, certain things in regards to Tyreke’s game are disconcerting, but while rare, there are such things as late bloomers.

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

The fan-base's expectations are validated when you look at past ROY's

1989–90 David Robinson*[f]
1990–91 Derrick Coleman
1991–92 Larry Johnson
1992–93 Shaquille O’Neal
1993–94 Chris Webber
1994–95© Grant Hill
1994–95© Jason Kidd
1995–96 Damon Stoudamire
1996–97 Allen Iverson
1997–98 Tim Duncan
1998–99 Vince Carter
1999–00© Elton Brand
1999–00© Steve Francis
2000–01 Mike Miller
2001–02 Pau Gasol
2002–03 Amare Stoudemire
2003–04 LeBron James
2004–05 Emeka Okafor
2005–06 Chris Paul
2006–07 Brandon Roy
2007–08 Kevin Durant
2008–09 Derrick Rose
2009–10 Tyreke Evans
2010–11 Blake Griffin

Throw in a 20/5/5 Rookie season, and you can see why the freebase’s fan-base’s expectations are what they are.

It’s not Rekes fault per se, its more about it being his burden, and thus fare he has let us down as of late.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

oooooh

Damon Stoudamire and Steevie Franchise. I got my fingers crossed!!

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Typical

Select from the bottom of the pack and make your comparison. At least put some effort into your dismissal of the expectation. Obviously Okafor and Miller are not Duncan, or Griffin. DUH!

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

hahah

I was crossing my fingers hoping that he wouldn’t end up like those two, not dismissing what you said

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry

Didn’t mean to offend. Just addressing this question of “why” the fans have such high expectations. My finger be crossed as well buddy!

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

even if you don't take the low hanging fruit

that list doesn’t lead me to think that RoY is a predictor of anything. Brandon Roy isn’t even in the league anymore. Not to mention that if Blake Griffin had been healthy he probably would have been the RoY in 09 anyway.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats a great point

Would have been a close vote if BG would have played that year.

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Even with the

20/5/5 thing? Tough call

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

If BG puts up the year in 09 that he did last year

he wins the award hands down. Of course that cna’t be proven.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

And by the same token

Blake could end up with the same knees as Brandon Roy. It still doesn’t squash the Clippers expectations of BG today.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

That's my point kind of.

Blake could still end up being Roy or Marcus Camby or Penny Hardaway, or whomever else you like that was derailed. By the same token, Tyreke could be Steve Francis or Larry Johnson or Grant Hill or Mike Miller. Just like the Clippers fan expectation of BG is too high so is our expectation of Tyreke.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

And they had the car there the entire time

It was all rigged. Javale should have won, his dunks were more entertaining anyway.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't want to skew the current 3 game statistics but

Tyreke did have 8 assists in the first preseason game against the warriors .

by ThomasGQ on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions  

I wish we were comparing
Rose ended the night with 29 points, 10-11 from the foul line, as well as 16 assists and 8 boards

to Tyreke, instead of having to talk about this BS again this year.

Time to adjust my New Years resolution.

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:12 AM PST reply actions  

I agree

at this point in time, Rose is definitely better than Reke

35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.

by ElRonToro on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile

by Balky Needs on Dec 31, 2011 11:18 AM PST reply actions  

Is there any metric out there that puts value on certain assists?

This might sound convoluted and crackpot-ish, but the other night I was wondering if all assists are created equal. Watching Monta Ellis in go 3 1/2 quarters with 2 assists before picking up 6 in garbage time after the game was out of reach. There has to be a way to weight assists in a game that’s close compared to a blowout. I’m just now barely literate in baseball metrics, so my basketball metrics chops are amateur night-level.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:21 AM PST reply actions  

you could try

82games.com and their crunch time stats.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Excellent

Thanks.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Sigh....

I’m starting to feel like I’m reading the SacBee comments section….

by HeuristicLineup on Dec 31, 2011 11:33 AM PST reply actions  

There have been some great points made along the way

I guess the proclivity of some to go off the deep end is fueled by the years of losing – half of which came before Evans’ arrival.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

But it gets tiresome sifting through piles of shit to find a gem.

by HeuristicLineup on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Either do I. I don't even care if you don't feel Tyreke is a King of the future

But it’s the asinine trades and the chicken little complexes that get tiresome. Earlier I had to read that Tyreke isn’t the player of the future because he isn’t a good interviewer.

by HeuristicLineup on Dec 31, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

True

Some people just don’t know anything about anything. Fact

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

1st thing I've seen that put a smile on my face today besides my reflection

Thanks

"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite

by Ninja King on Dec 31, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

thats all you got to be to get into the nba?

Hell Im a great interviewer, I’m going to enter the 2012 draft.

by sacman on Dec 31, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

my post about Tyreke interview was sarcastic and uncalled for in tone...

but it had some merit, Tyreke’s interview post was about the position of PG and their role as communicators and faciltators of flow and organization on the court…one’s ability to communicate to coaches and teammates is key in this role. Tyreke is not an effective communicator on or off the floor. Here is one list of top 10 point grds: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-7776352
Any list of great PG’s current or past in the NBA you find, will prove my point that 9 out if 10 are excellent communicators. Tyreke’s lack of communication skills (and it is a skill, that can be developed), piggybacked with his style of play and makes for an unflattering option as a PG. To say that communication from the pg spot is not a huge deal is incorrect.

by Kingstime on Dec 31, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Communication from the PG to the media is a non-issue

It is not applicable, in my opinion. And if it is important, I’m glad we passed on Rubio, since he doesn’t speak English very well.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I will give you that I guess

but since the players aren’t mic’d and not everyone has a dad who will throw them a couple tix close to the court a few times a year so they can witness the lack of communication first hand…heartfelt thoughtful interviews are sometimes all we have to pin our hopes on as fans. Rubio speaks the language of trust, nonverbal communication, and unselfishness. His motives are obvious, and it shows. No one is able to discern what is going on with Tyreke from one moment to the next, coaches or players. As a pg this is unacceptable.

by Kingstime on Dec 31, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

You keep pinning the interview to some greater meaning

I suppose that this is your right. As I said in the other thread, I find that very offensive.

Donté Greene for point guard!

Out.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Not enough talk about Cousins

the dude can take over a game and is definately a gem. One word that sums up Evan’s game right now is “frustration”. Frustration with watching his play on the offensive end for all the reasons already stated.

by ChehalisKing on Dec 31, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd

for use of the word proclivity…

Purveyor of Bull Plop

by SayWhat? on Dec 31, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't even comment on there without being told I'm an idiot because I don't know these crazy stats these geeks have come up with

And I actually played college ball and was drafted. I really don’t like that site, but they always have the breaking news.

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I'm a converted stat geek

but the amount of smugness by a select few over there rubs me wrong. There’s a half dozen people over there who probably start arguments with themselves when they’re alone in an elevator. The learning curve of AN etiquette is ridiculously high considering it’s a freaking fan blog. By and large it’s still good people, though, and the game threads are always epic.

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Are u crazy?

Just 3 games in the season and you want to trade Tyreke, a guy that made 20/5/5 in his rookie season. He will improve, just wait and see.

by brunotcorrea on Dec 31, 2011 11:52 AM PST reply actions  

No,

but he’ll live off it longer than 55 games.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 31, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

The endless pounding.
A hole, blacker than despair.
John Salmons is back.

by twasserm on Jun 23, 2011

by Dirkula on Dec 31, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I love Tyreke the much as anyone on this site

but if I never saw that 20/5/5 stat ever again I would be happy

by elSAVinator on Dec 31, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

His low assist total is the system, not Tyreke

Westphal has mutiple guys bringing the ball up and starting the offense. We have no set PG on our team right now. Put Tyreke as the PG in a normal offensive system and those numbers would go up. I believe the play would stabalize too. I don’t really understand what Westphal is doing at the moment, but then again, that is no different than his first two years too. I hope the New Year brings a decent coach back to Sacramento.

by nerdninja on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

Sacramento Black Holes

But the system is based around the players. Rick Adelman’s high post offense wouldn’t exactly excel with all these “black holes” as Bill Simmons tweeted about us a few nights ago.

I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.

by dspohn55 on Dec 31, 2011 1:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Speaking of assists

Tyreke leads the team currently with 2.7. Don’t think it’s a Tyreke issue right now, it’s a system and cohesion issue, as well as a little bit of fatigue from guys missing shots. As TZ mentioned we’re also getting to the line a bunch, which doesn’t ever end in an assist.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 12:47 PM PST reply actions  

OOOHHHH That burns.

Can’t decide if I should rec that or not…

I did,

by Jimmy Martin on Dec 31, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe after practicing free throws he'll get a few more.

But damn him for not calling teammates at 2AM to practice stuff they’re going to practice in…wait for it…practice the next day.

by jveezy on Dec 31, 2011 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

What does Tyreke work on in the summer

We all desperately want Tyreke to develop into our very own LeBron James: Sacramento edition, but it isn’t going to happen. Witnessing Tyreke’s NBA body and flashy ballhandling have us all hoping that he will develop his decision making, shooting and ability to make teammates better.. but be honest Kings fans, what area(s) of his game have improved since he became a King in 2009?

We traded away our best player to give Reke the keys to the franchise, and now we’ve surrounded him with a lot of NBA caliber scorers and shooters. I realize it’s only been three games, but let’s not act like its only this year he’s struggled to get others involved.

Granted, he’s averaged over 5 assists per game for his career. But is it really that impressive of a number if he has the ball in his hands as often as he does?

Our core right now and going forward is DeMarcus, Tyreke, Thornton, Jimmer and JJ. The one guy of that unit with an embarrassingly low basketball IQ is Tyreke and I worry it hasn’t gotten better and never will.

I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.

by dspohn55 on Dec 31, 2011 1:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

neither DeMarcus or Thornton hav shown me much in the BBIQ department either.

and Jimmer and JJ have been here for two weeks, little early to put them in the core.

by Lotusprime on Dec 31, 2011 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know man

DeMarcus grills up a mean steak, he’s got this seasoning, I don’t even know what it is, but he puts it on, and it just adds that kick. Must be an Alabama thing. Tyreke, I’ll give you, he can’t do much out there, he’s more of a smoked salmon type of guy, something about not eating too much red meat. Whatever. And as you said, Jimmer’s still learning, he’s got some skill, but he’s sticking to the basics like chicken for right now until he gets the hang of it. Thornton is usually just there to eat, but he can put something together in a pinch, he’s got a few Cajun cooking tricks he learned from his ma back in Louisiana, but sometimes he makes it just a bit too hot.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

There is no i in there

You’re not making much sense, did you eat one of Hassan’s steaks. I told you NOT TO EAT ANY OF HASSAN’S STEAKS.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh

We traded away our best player to give Reke the keys to the franchise, and now we’ve surrounded him with a lot of NBA caliber scorers and shooters.

Our core right now and going forward is DeMarcus, Tyreke, Thornton, Jimmer and JJ.

I get the frustration with his game but pretty sure Tyreke did not force Kevin Martin out. Now, the way the franchise or coaching staff handled Martin could have but have a hard time hanging that one on Reke. And yeah we got some NBA caliber scorers and shooters but that core you just threw up there has one second year big, one stud shooter who has been here less than half a year and two guys who have played three games here.

by wallywagon11 on Dec 31, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think the writer was blaming Tyreke for that trade.

But that trade came about because a backcourt of Martin and Evans simply was not working, and one or the other had to go.

Given that Martin is out and Evans is still here, I think it’s pretty clear the message that that trade was sending.

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Non-Sequiter

But who else thinks that it looks like Mike Brown is texting on the sideline while Tyreke drives right past Fisher in that picture above?

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Dec 31, 2011 1:06 PM PST reply actions  

'Drive angry?'

“That’s a surefire way to get a ticket or cause an accident. This guy needs to calm down.”

No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace

by Mike Garza on Dec 31, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Haha

I thought that same thing.

by ThomasGQ on Dec 31, 2011 1:12 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Tyreke's passing

So they put shooters around Tyreke to help him as a point guard, great, but did someone tell him he actually has to pass them the ball. This guy is an awful passer and outside shooter. You can always tell a lousy shooter from the foul line. Imagine a quality point guard shooting five for twelve, awful. make him a point forward or trade him, it’s that simple. If the Kings are committed to him at the point they will never improve, Tyreke makes nobody better.

by bankers hours on Dec 31, 2011 2:35 PM PST reply actions  

oh my god

this is like the chris webber hate during our prime all over again

im starting to not be able to read the shit thats been argued about on here lately, all i can say is THANK GOD we are not in charge of this team

by AnkleMan on Dec 31, 2011 3:39 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Good Reference

The Webber hate was also beyond ridiculous. Of course they guy had a few flaws, didn’t justify the angry, torch baring mob that wanted to run him out of town each and every day.

by bignerd on Dec 31, 2011 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point.

But I at least will tone down on the Evans hate when he averages 20+ points and 5+ assists.

"Where hope goes to die"

by napg on Dec 31, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

All I know is Tyrekes shot has got no better

And he constantly misses the open pass. Those are the only “stats” I need to know

by Since'89 on Dec 31, 2011 5:01 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions  

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