Add Nick Young To Kings' 'Interest In Inefficient Score-First Guards' Club
by Tom Ziller on Dec 5, 2011 6:05 AM PST
in Free Agency/Trades
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Michael Lee of the Washington Post reports that the Sacramento Kings are among the teams interesting in the Wizards' restricted free agent guard Nick Young. If you're counting, Jamal Crawford is now the last NBA free agent guard with a subpar shooting efficiency to be chased by the Kings. That's almost not an exaggeration.
Mike Prada of Bullets Forever -- who is actually a Young fan -- lists the guard's deficiencies pretty bluntly: he doesn't have court vision (the only rotation guard with a lower assist rate last season was Jodie Meeks; yes, even Kevin Martin earned assists more regularly), he doesn't attack the rim and finish or draw fouls, he doesn't defend effectively off the ball. For the Kings, those are red flags.
He's a scorer, basically ... but not an efficient one. He shoots well from long-range (38 percent last year, 38 percent for his career), but he has bad shot selection on his two-pointers and doesn't get to the line that well. That results in a below-average .538 True Shooting percentage. He's pretty close to Marcus Thornton, really, though Thornton is younger and has been a high-usage scorer in both of his pro seasons; Young just hit the 20 points per 36 minutes level last year after three years at 17 or below.
Young's not a bad player. But "not a bad player" shouldn't be the criteria the Kings chase in this vital offseason. This isn't to say that the Kings' interest is real or accurate; agents spin like Jupiter's moons. Obviously, we aren't going to judge Geoff Petrie's offseason based on the rumors of whom he expresses interest in. This is all about the prospect of Young, not the prospect of the rebuilt Kings.
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Agents drumming up interest.
Not surprising given that teams couldn’t even talk to players about any kind of anything until 45 mins from now. Most rumors never even see the light of day, and this one won’t either in all likelihood.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Even if Petrie did call
that’s fine, he should be gauging the market in case Thornton gets offered something way out of left field, and the team needs to find another SG quickly (given that free agency is so short this year). At least, in my optimistic world, that’s how I’m chalking up the JJ Barea and Nick Young “rumors.” Still, even if we need to have a plan B if Thornton gets offered something unreasonable, my plan B would be Afflalo, not one of these guys…
by LPKingsFan on Dec 5, 2011 6:29 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Afflalo
Love the guy, but can’t imagine a scenario where Denver wouldn’t match. For them to even consider not matching, you’d have to throw insane money at him. And if you’re going to do that, they might as well just match Thornton.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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by Exhibit G on Dec 5, 2011 7:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Afflalo is, like Gasol, a great target that RFA makes almost impossible to grab. (I expect Thad Young will end up in the same realm.)
Thad
He’s an interesting player. Initially I really wanted the Kings to go for him, but I think it could be a mistake if they do. He finally began to thrive when Doug Collins made him stop taking so many threes, and Collins really controlled his game. Considering this team seem to be adding shooters to stretch defenses, and given Westphal’s apparent inability to reign in poor player shooting choices, I think Thad might be a terrible fit with this team.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Dec 5, 2011 7:22 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Like Young. Until we know who the next Kings coach is, nervous about him here (either way, he ain’t coming though).
I can
Imagine a scenario where they wouldn’t match, like a Max offer or something close to it for instance, it’s just hard to see who’d do that.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
This is my thought
I can’t see how Young fits on our current team.
But if someone else offered Thornton 10 mil per season, then Young at 4 million per season makes a lot more sense.
I'd like to read an official story somewhere
With the headline “Kings aggressively pursuing Nene”
by outrider on Dec 5, 2011 6:31 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
whens the last time..
A “rumor” came to become true for the Kings. I seriously doubt that Geoff isn’t out planning to make attempts at better players than young. Somehow, some way, I feel Petrie will make a significant huge trade or move that no one expected. Well …at least I keep telling myself that. TWEET THORTON TO STAY!
by aguimar71 on Dec 5, 2011 6:51 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Other than that,
I would probably have to go back to the Artest deal. I don’t consider the Bibby or Miller trade rumors, since they were more foregone conclusions.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The Kings have money.
They’re going to be mentioned in every possible transaction if only for that reason.
The talking heads almost never break a Kings deal before it’s announced. I’d say that any deal that has us bringing in players at positions where we’re already pretty stacked (really, a score first guard? Like we don’t have enough?) is probably just people talking for the sake of talking about something.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 5, 2011 7:04 AM PST reply actions
Nick Young reminds me of JR Smith
In that I love both players as long as they aren’t on my favorite team.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
or in that
I’d prefer seeing him playing in China rather than playing for the Kings
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
Go Kings!
by Panzerfaust on Dec 5, 2011 7:10 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
MOAR GUARDZ!!
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
Go Kings!
by Panzerfaust on Dec 5, 2011 7:11 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Young makes no sense whatsoever...
You already have Tyreke at the 2 guard and Thornton as your future “offense off of the bench” guy… why even bother with a no defense, expensive, offense oriented guard like Young???
by ap3604 on Dec 5, 2011 7:12 AM PST reply actions
I know these are just rumors
But our large cap space is starting to feel like a burden. Hopefully Petrie can find a large expiring contract so that our cap space can be used on a better free agency class next year.
next year
Is not a given.I feel the arena and a deal will get done, but not until its final will I be willing to pass on this season for hopes of next season. Win now, make moves to build the team.
by aguimar71 on Dec 5, 2011 7:49 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Agree
Why save so much money for next year? To sign players that have to desire to play in Sac? If you can better your team this year why not do it? They need to have a nice product on the floor.. Get the casual fan back in the building and support the team. We are still fighting for an arena.
by Sincere P. on Dec 5, 2011 10:01 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
One other note
Nick Young is a restricted free agent. If the Kings signed him to a reasonable deal, the Wizards would likely match. I would prefer not to sign Nick Young to any deal that makes the Wizards say “No thanks, too rich for us.”
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Dec 5, 2011 7:51 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
And my guess
Is that’s exactly what other teams are saying about MT. Which I why I think we will end up signing him.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Basketball rumors are like Lindsey Lohan
They’re worthless!
Just trying to get leverage in negotiations with Lil' Buckets.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
Smokescreen
I love how Geoff has thrown everyone off the trail with rumors of Young, Barea, and not so much, Hayes.
Yet, I digress. Really. When has anyone had the mind of Geoff. Exactly. These are rumors and until the ink is dry, nothing more.
"We're like Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But a younger version. I really feel that." - Charlie Villanueva about himself and Chris Bosh.
Hard to imagine that's anything outside of GM 101.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team." - Michael Jordan (Owner, Charlotte Bobcats)
Not so sure
Didn’t he do this in 1998 signing Jon Barry, Vernon Maxwell and whoever else I can’t remember. I can’t imagine Vernon Maxwell ever performed well in the efficiency stats.
Ziller
You say that .538 TS% is below average. What is the mean, and do you know the medium TS% numbers?
"We're like Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But a younger version. I really feel that." - Charlie Villanueva about himself and Chris Bosh.
Mean TS% last season
was 0.5568
by Capt. Factorial on Dec 5, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny
Just got yelled at the other day for insinuating that the front office doesn’t much attention to advanced stats like this, and that the first time they hear about these things is when Ziller posts them. Ahem…
Someone was yelling at you, and it wasn't me?
Damn.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team." - Michael Jordan (Owner, Charlotte Bobcats)
Cool, see you then
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team." - Michael Jordan (Owner, Charlotte Bobcats)
by otis29 on Dec 5, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Everyone acts like Otis is a mean, old, angry, somewhat handsome, despicable grouch
And I think this is totally incorrect. He is in no way handsome.
/jk :) love ya Otis!
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
iashwash, you are the voice of reason - Holmdel
GET OFF MY LAWN
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team." - Michael Jordan (Owner, Charlotte Bobcats)
OK, but first a question.
Why are you trying to take a dump on your lawn?
And fiber is your friend.
This.
About the other day and all that yelling you received for insinuating that the front office doesn't much attention to advanced stats
Bignerd’s comment was not in the slightest yelling at you and was not even really directed at your notion that “the front office doesn’t much attention to advanced stats like this” but was a critique of Ziller’s post. In fact, he explicitly let you know it.
I thought I was pretty direct
These aren’t good numbers in his post. He’s [Tom in his post] applying team +/- stats to an individual. He is comparing the post-March .500 record to imagination and opinion instead of the pre-March numbers. Its an opinion piece taking numbers that back his opinion, not an advanced statistical breakdown.
KF10 agreed with you
I’m pretty sure the Kings do NOT have advanced stats peopleI remember reading a list of teams that do hire those people, I don’t see the Kings on the list.
And Pookey agreed with you
They don’t have many Carl if they do have them.But I doubt they do. Petrie just won’t embrace it and the Maloofs won’t spend the money for it either as long as Petrie isn’t asking for that.
On the other hand, Jerry Reynolds has mentioned in the past that he uses Synergy so I think in some senses they do attempt to make use of the technology at hand.
But by all means play the martyr role. Life’s hard when people agree with you.
All these
rumors coming out about Hayes, Thornton, Young …..
watch the first day FA starts … we’ll see the headline:
“Kings offer max deal to Gasol”
SMOKESCREEN!!
Like it!
And if he doesn’t live up to the contract- amnesty him.
by Sincere P. on Dec 5, 2011 10:05 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah - you can't do that
But I’d rather have Nene
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I'd offer Nene
$15 mil a year and see what happens and Gasol $10-$11 mil and whoever calls back first . . .
The difference is I think the Athleticism that Nene can bring to the whole front line. Besides, as has been discussed before I think the Nene/Cousins combo could bloom both statistically and emotionally into perhaps the elite combo in the NBA.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm with you on this entire post
I think Nene is a significantly better player than Gasol, so go after him with the big dollars.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team." - Michael Jordan (Owner, Charlotte Bobcats)
M Gasol will always be
very Good I think, top ten C for sure, will he ever be a game changer physically or emotionally? I don’t see it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, you want a center to bring it emotionally? Oh, I will show you emotion!
Happy Gasol
Fiesty Gasol
Pumped Up Gasol
Game Face Gasol
Hanging out with my shirtless teammate Gasol
About to have my way with a red head Gasol
And finally, there is “THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!” Gasol
by wallywagon11 on Dec 5, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 15 recs
Brilliant.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
Is that a red-headed mannequin?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 5, 2011 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
No,
But she’s probably underage.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 5, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
rec'd but
My point and opinion stand.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Hand Banana Gasol
“Tonight … you.”
by wallywagon11 on Dec 5, 2011 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
When Gasol is on fire,
is he Gasoline?
This.
by elfboy_ on Dec 5, 2011 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Plus Nene has come out and said he wants to play PF, not Center anymore. But with Denver he was always C and Martin was PF.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Dec 5, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry... But.
You can’t amnesty Gasol later if you sign him to a max deal and he doesn’t live up to it? I thought you can use it once in the life span on the CBA.. Why couldn’t it be done?
by Sincere P. on Dec 5, 2011 11:45 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ohhh...
Makes sense! I should pay more attention to this stuff.
by Sincere P. on Dec 5, 2011 11:57 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
He looks like JT.
"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James
Thanks Lebron, for reminding me how miserable my life is.
I am probably in the minority
But I like Nick Young as a player. I thought there were times last year that he was pretty good and showed descent potential. Does he fit on this team? I really don’t know. Maybe the plan is to play “Helter Skelter” GSW basketball and try to hang 130 on everyone. Pssh.. who needs defense.
"I had 2 laugh at ths..I was playing my oldest son Zaire on his nerf rim & he dunked & said Gibson while screaming..L2MS Kids u gotta luv em" - D.Wade on Twitter
I like him more as a bench player where he can provide some scoring. He'd be much more acceptable in that role IMO.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Dec 5, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions
Do you also like Thorton as a bench player?
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
Kings better make smart decesions. Thats all i care about make Evans & Cousins want to stay.
by Shabazz916 on Dec 5, 2011 8:50 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Why Slam Young?
His number are so close to Thornton’s that I don’t get why there is such a negative vibe about the possibility of acquiring Young. I don’t know if any of you watched him last season, but this guy can score in a lot of different ways. I’m not sure if I’d sign him over Thornton, but to me, Young has just as much potential going forward.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
Completely agree
I get annoyed at reading so many people talk down about Young, & I’m sure most of these fans havn’t even watched him play. He’s on of the deadliest shooters available in free agency and gets to the basket just fine, contrary to what is stated up above. The guy is a hooper. Kings fans should be familiar with his game, since he torched the Kings this past season.
Ninja King
I like Nick Young
I guess the question is why would Nick Young work with Tyreke Evans when Kevin Martin didn’t…and Martin is a more efficient and more selfless player than Young?
Nice player. Questionable fit.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The comparison - outside the numbers
MT23:
- clutch performer
- gets along with current coaching staff, aka, knows his role
- already a fan favorite
- has a very cool nickname: Lil’ Buckets
Nick Young:
- has 4 seasons in the League and finally with a break out season (see TZ’s numbers)
- doesn’t defend
- his jersey number is #1
- has frosted tips on his ’do
- has about the worst nickname I have ever heard: Bean Burrito (that is not a misprint, and check out this wiki page, it is a riot)
by betweentheeyes on Dec 5, 2011 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Ok
Chemistry w/ Thornton and 4 seasons for Young to finally shine is convincing, but the hair nicknames, and jersey number don’t matter.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
I agree
I wasn’t saying necessarily that I’d take Young over Thornton. I’m just saying that anyone hating on Young doesn’t know what they’re talking about. He’s a baller. But, because of the chemistry built between our guys last season, as well as the fact that Thornton has turned into an All-Star caliber player, which he is, I would re-sign Thornton without hesitation. Only available guy I would take over Thornton is probably Jamal Crawford, but it doesn’t look like the Kings are pursuing him. Thornton really has played great in his 2 seasons as an NBA player. We got a steal when we acquired him, & he likes Sac. Gotta keep that man. Evans, Thornton, & Jimmer are going to be torching teams, especially when all 3 are on the floor together.
Ninja King
by Ninja King on Dec 5, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not looking at the advanced numbers here between Thornton and Young (so basically a shot in the dark and could be completely wrong)
but although I would agree that it seems Young has just as much potential as Thornton going forward, I think a lot of the Thornton love is because we have already seen what he can do here and that it appears to mesh about as well as one could expect when it comes to bringing in someone of their talents. Well, that plus there is a bit of bias against Young given the way he carries himself off the court as well.
Pushing that side, I think this article is less of a slam on Young than it is a “WTF why are the only rumors involving the Kings based on the type of players we don’t need to add right now?”
by wallywagon11 on Dec 5, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Well.
What makes Thornton work with Tyreke from your perspective? I’m not getting the logic here. Martin played with Evans for part of a season and they didn’t work out, therefore Evans won’t work with Young because Young = Martin? How is Thornton really different from Young? Marcus, like Young, gets to the line a little and both need to improve their defense. I do think the Kings will probably retain Thornton, but I wouldn’t be unhappy if they picked up Young instead.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
Whose perspective, mine? No reply button, so I don't know for sure.
Thornton and Evans did show that they could co-exist rather well on the floor together last year, and Thornton did average 3.4 assists once he got here, while Young averaged 1.8 for the Wiz. Thornton looked like he was interested in playing defense when he was here. Defense has never been a particular passion of Young’s. I see Thornton more as a player and Young more as a scorer. Put another way, I see Thornton being more like Bobby Jackson or a pocket version of Mitch Richmond, while I see Young being more like Eddie Johnson.
I like Nick Young. Nice player. Questionable fit.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Sorry
I meant for that response to be a rely. Hit the wrong button I guess. My problem is likely that I missed several games in the second half of last season so I didn’t get to see Tyreke and Marcus gel, I didn’t get to see their chemistry and the chemistry between Thornton and the rest of the team. As for their jersey numbers, nicknames, and hair styles, I couldn’t give less of a shoot. In my mind, Tyreke still has a chance to be the PG (and I know there’s still A LOT of debate about this) so Young made some sense.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
When did I say anything about their jersey numbers, nicknames or hairstyles?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Jersey numbers, nicknames etc.
But which guy has a better sense of humor?
Well
Last year on Sacramento Thornton had an Assist Rate of 15.84 and Young had a 6.66.
Thornton had a rebound rate of 7 and Young had a 4.9.
Thornton has a A/T of 1.64 and Young had .83.
I actually agree that if we do lose Thornton, Young might be a nice replacement, but Thronton’s ability to pass and rebound at a much higher rate than Young makes him potentially a better fit.
Salmons replacement?
Maybe he’d replace Salmons instead of Thornton. With a lineup of Evans, Thornton, Young, Hickson, and Cousins, no one would be able to double team the Kings — of course, Cousins and Evans would have to focus even more on facilitating the ball.
However, I’m always a little weary of a player who has a career season right before he becomes a free agent.
by who betta than kanyon? on Dec 5, 2011 1:06 PM PST reply actions
Or
move Evans to SF and have Jimmer, Young, and Thornton as guards but that would give the Kings no defensive front-line.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
Reke can guard SF's
better than he can PGs.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Petrie showing interest in Replacements...
For Dally and MT23? Playing a mind-game perhaps?
by Sacramental on Dec 5, 2011 1:25 PM PST via mobile reply actions
That's the only logical explanation
that warrants a Nick Young or Chuck Hayes signing. If we resign Thornton (which is going to happen) then there’s no need for yet another high-usage swingman. So thanks but no thanks.
by SoCal Diplomat on Dec 5, 2011 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
As much as I like Young for completely unbiased reasons... cough cough...
I think every agent out there is going to say they are negotiating with the team with the most cap space to spend…
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
right
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Nick Young definitely has talent but from what I’ve seen he’d be the biggest ballhog on the roster. Tyreke, Thornton, Salmons and Young would fit as well together as a Humphries/Kardashian family reunion.
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Dec 5, 2011 3:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Jamal Crawford
I really don’t understand why the Kings aren’t pursuing Crawford as an alternative to Thornton, just in case. Of all the free-agent guards, he would be the best possible addition to a backcourt rotation with Evans & Fredette. He could start, or be 6th man, which he already has an award for. Plus, he’s a Seattle guy and would be a good mentor for Thomas especially. Crawford is worth every penny that any team spends on him.
Ninja King
It's the one that's not being leaked, therefore it is the one most likely to happen
Petrie!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Let's put it out there,
we’re interested in every player, man, woman, child, fetus, living being who ever, currently and will play basketball at a professional level be it from George Mikan to Rashanana XVII our 4-armed intersex interstellar alien PG in the year 2045.*
(*note: 2 years after Jimmer’s debut season broadcast finally reaches their star system, inspiring their species to stop building war machines and learn to play basketball).
This.
by elfboy_ on Dec 5, 2011 7:15 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
"What about me?"
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
by Shizzo on Dec 5, 2011 8:13 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
So, that's at least one player
who’ll be in PW’s doghouse this season.
This.
by elfboy_ on Dec 6, 2011 6:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
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