Another Sign Points to Kings' Desire to Leave Sacramento
According to our friend Sam Amick, the Maloofs have not yet handed over the documents they promised to give to the Arena development team. Ouch.
over 1 year ago
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backasswards logic
This makes no sense, not from a relocation standpoint and less from a PR standpoint.
not good news at all
Years of failed arena plans in Sacramento have left the Maloofs skeptical about whether this latest plan can come to fruition. What’s more, it appears they are highly motivated to move into a larger market before a new collective bargaining agreement is in place.
"For five decades (and counting), these fans have been blessed with West, Baylor, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Shaq and Kobe. Seven of the 15 best players ever. At some point, the gravy train will end. The Lakers will bottom out like the Knicks did last decade, submarined by bad moves, poor signings and unlucky drafts. Their fans will flee in droves. Jack will pass away. The buzz will be gone. That's how the NBA works -- in a 30-team league, you can't always get lucky, not even if you're a big-market team with deep pockets. I don't know if that day is three years off or 30, but it's coming." Bill Simmons
This would make Here We Stay into a Riot
If they file saying that they just want a larger market it will be a very ugly scene
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Fuck, not good news at all
I thought the Maloofs wouldn’t get the 100 million loan though? I’m shitting bricks now! I think the Maloofs file by March 1st. If you go to Kings.com all April home games are free
The Maloofs will always be some playas, Geoff Petrie can neva be a hata, Chris Webber will always be a playa, Mike Biiby can neva be a hata, Vlade Divac will always be a player, Doug Christe can neva be a hata, Bobby Jackson will always be a playa, Peja Stojakovic can neva be a hata, White Chocalate will always be a playa, Rick Adelman can neva be a hata, Pete Carril you know he's a playa, Kevin Martin can neva be a hata, Omri Casspi will always be a playa, DeMarcus Cousins can neva be a hata, Tyreke Evans now that's a real playa, THE SACRAMENTO KINGS NOW THEM SOME REAL PLAYAS!!!!!
I think your mascot suit is cutting off circulation
I think the Maloofs file by March 1st. If you go to Kings.com all April home games are free
Power Balance will echo in April
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yes it will
It’ll echo due to it being empty. Traditionally one or two things happens when a team announces it’s leaving and then plays home games after the announcement. Either it’s dead silent because only a handful of people still show up at the games, or two there are riots and people end up getting arrested or hurt. Either way, March and April would be interesting if they file…
The April games are only free if you buy the Full Season Plan for the rest of the year....
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
If the Maloofs file by APR 1st to move
We need to start a “Here we boycott” and leave the arena completely empty for the rest of the year!
That'll show 'em!!
Bad idea, they can still pull back and decide not to move. Abandoning all hope is not an option until the name officially changes on the front of that jersey
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
Eh......
….it could go either way.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
While a team has always gone through relocation once filing...
….I suppose there is a first time for everything.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
This part is wack too.
Such a move would have to be approved by the league’s Board of Governor’s by a majority vote, but it is believed that the Maloofs have previously inquired with their fellow owners about such a possibility and are confident the move would be approved.
that's code for
“During the recent ownership meetings over all star weekend, the Maloofs brought the issue up.”
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if the two LA teams are ok with this
or do they have enough influence to win over some of the other owners.
Very little from what I've been hearing
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Just that the two LA teams opinion on the matter will mean very little.
Could be wrong, but this is just what I’ve been reading over the last few days on here and other places
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
they absolutely would not be okay with it
but the relocation vote only requires a majority. They probably have their territorial rights they will want to have compensation for but the thing is, technically their territorial rights could very well be smaller than we’d assume because they were bought so darn long ago.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
And to make it worse
The relocation and territorial rights may be a lot easier for them swallow since they have the NBA’s lowest payroll and likely won’t be paying salary next year anyway. It never made sense to me for them to file for relocation, but this kind of does make a little more sense. Although, the money they don’t spend next year could just be saved until they file then.
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
If they do actually file the one thing I know I'll be waiting for
is the relocation fine. Really curious if that thing all of a sudden magically dropped from the previous precedent.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
Curious if they are the same territory
because you have LA Dodgers and Anaheim Angels in baseball and the LA Kings and Anaheim Mighty Ducks in Hockey.
You may be right, but I could see Greater LA being one territory and OC/IE as being another. Especially in basketball, where it could bring in more fans from San Diego too.
territorial rights don't work between different leagues
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
Which means the Maloofs brought up their plan to move in front of all the other owners. Shitty.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2011 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
this is why these types of rumors spread during all star weekend
a lot of business and backstage politicing gets done because everyone is physically in the same place together much like the MLB winter meetings.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Well ...
Code for the Maloofs have been talking to Stern about how to do this for months and Stern, like usual, pitched it perfectly to the other owners during the recent owner meetings over All Star Weekend
I blame Eric Musselman
for showing them how to make a good powerpoint presentation
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
For once
I hope to God Sam is misinformed. He usually isn’t though.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
This is my first time in the last 72 hours I thought they might actually file this year.
Wow, what a shitty feeling.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
Soooo bummed right now.
I don’t know what I’ll do if they move… I doubt I could root for a team that just up and left.
"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"
To be fair they wouldn't have exactly just up and left
this has been coming for quite some time
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
Had a sad thought
maybe they are thinking we are a zillion dollars under the cap and no FAs will come to Sac, but realize they will come to LA after the lock out.
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Too bad it makes sense too
They’ve got the cap room, and it’ll be a lot easier to convince player to move to OC than Sac. Shitty.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2011 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
If you sell a shitty product but live in a good location, players still won't come
Look at the Clippers. Tons of cap space in the Summer of ‘10 with guys like LeBron, Amar’e, Bosh and Wade all available, and they ended up with Randy Foye and Ryan Gomes.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
well the Clips competition was Chicago, NY, and Miami
next year it could be Indiana, Cleveland, and Minnesota. LA looks good compared to those three.
by MichaelMack on Feb 21, 2011 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Sacramento looks good compared to those three
Never forget, I'm an idiot.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Feb 22, 2011 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, but with the Clippers
it was more than a bad product. They had terrible ownership, coaching and management and were the joke of the league. If the Kings move to Anaheim with a promising young team, they will probably become a Tier 3 free agent destination.
Tier 1 = Lakers, Knicks
Tier 2 = Miami, Boston (legacy), Chicago
Tier 3 – LA Kings of Anaheim, Phoenix, etc.
Very sad thought
After years of “wait till next year” and and constant glass half full fandom, are the kings really going to be ripped away from us right as we are right on the cusp of getting good again?
fandom is an investment
We fans invest our emotions – fanatical hope and support and fanatical disappointment and dismay – into our teams. Like all investments – sometimes they don’t turn out like we hope or expect.
This one isn’t over yet – you’ve already ante-ed up, let’s see how it plays out before we fold our hands.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Would it be wrong to send the maloofs a tweet
asking them to just announce already what they are doing instead of toying with our god damn souls.
Go for it.....nicely
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Judging by the search feature on Twitter there have been tons of people sending Joe tweets
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
LOL, some of which not so "nicely"
@C_sizzl3
Chris Heylin
@Joe_Maloof too bad the min we get a couple good players you and run to Anaheim like a little girl. Have fun in the lakers and clips shadow.
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Those people don't realize how little they are helping
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly wouldn't think much of it.
Tweets aren’t exactly going to change their minds on this regardless.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
It's just a thing that's a pet peeve of mine
and the fact that there is nothing I can do about idiot people really grinds my gears
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt Joe is all that concerned
Not saying the twitter stuff is a bad idea, it’s just probably not going to make the Maloofs change their mind on this March 1st date is all. If we make it past then you got a great head start to get support.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm...
…documents have yet to be provided
What’s goin on? The Maloofs can’t afford a secretary to dig up a few papers out of a file cabinet? Fax machine on the fritz? Overnight postage fees not in the budget?
If the Maloofs are not in full cooperation mode with ICON group, you have to think they are fully committed to Plan A. (A for Anaheim).
This is not looking so good, guys.
Still excited about the 28th but at the same time at a big of a loss so ...
I think it’s time for some motivational posters.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 9:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
I feel like
the BEST Sacramento can feel about itself would be a consolation prize for the Maloofs. If the Kings do not relocate it seems that it will have nothing to do with their “dedication to Sacramento” and everything to do with their preferred option falling on it’s face.
With that said, Sacramento would at least feel like a consolation prize with a basketball team to cheer for.
that's loser talk
I feel like the BEST Sacramento can feel about itself would be a consolation prize for the Maloofs
You are better than that and so is the rest of StR
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for the reality check. It is the frustration talking.
I don’t know what to believe anymore. I am finding it harder and harder to convince myself that if an Arena deal were in place tomorrow, with financial backers, designs, plans the whole shebang, that the Maloof’s would still stay. Am I off base?
Regardless, my original post was in regards to these statements from the article (apologies for not knowing how to make the purple box of text)
“Yet the source told FanHouse that documents have yet to be provided, and all indications are that the Maloofs will only turn their attention back to Sacramento if they can’t find a way to strike a deal in Anaheim.”
Followed by
“No. 2 (is) I believe they have to make a decision saying that we want to be in Sacramento. And if they do not file (for relocation), that would be them saying we want to be in our community.”
I feel like the second statement would be like hearing a press conference and having them say “See! Anaheim was a smokescreen. We WANTED to stay here all along!” I am not doubting the Maloof’s track record for loyalty, and I don’t want them to sit on their thumbs nor would I expect them to. This is today’s situation though: It’s Anaheim, or it’s Sacramento. It goes without saying that It is becoming clearer that they are ready to go to Anaheim, and per the article in discussion only if that falls through they would then stay in Sac. We are going for A, if not A, then B. That is what I meant by consolation.
The Maloofs could have moved this team whenever they wanted
They don’t need an excuse. They have been dedicated to Sacramento and have tried hard to get this team arena. How long do you want them to stand around with their thumbs up their asses to get something done?
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
1 more season
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
I agree. I actually would be angry with them if they didn't give us 1 more season
After our one more season though, if they decide to leave I really can’t blame them
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
I've been thinking that for a while now
but then today it hit me that the Maloofs might be looking at this Anaheim deal as something that could very well not be there next year.
If you had to gamble millions of dollars (hell, hundreds of dollars) would you bet on Sacramento getting a new arena started within a year or on Anaheim holding a 100 million dollar offer for another year while you make up your mind? Or would you take the offer now instead and risk neither?
This all comes down to what exactly the Maloofs are being offered by the Anaheim folks. Because if it’s not too hard to crunch numbers and determine which choice will be the safest financially, they have to take it. And it would be hard for me to blame them.
rec'd, +1, FTW, This.
For those of us those of us freaking out
is there anyone can interpret this as anything but bad?
best we can hope for is the OC offer is not good enough
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Isn't the offer...
come play here… we’ll clear our calendar for 41 nights a year?
What are the specifics that need to be worked out between Maloofs and Anaheim, if the loan is not part of the relocation???
There is more than one way to skin a cat
negotiate over who pays the property taxes, is there a lease, who gets parking revenue, and all kinds of other stuff.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
I guess the best thing you can pull out of this is that they have not filed yet and they are still looking into it. If they had already decided they would not be looking into it anymore they would just be waiting tell the deadline to file.
Ya that's sort of my way of thinking
On one side it appears they’ve given up, thus them not giving the documents to the Taylor/ICON group right away. On the other side if they’ve already checked out, I think they would have filed already
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Why would they file if they're still hammering out details with Anaheim?
"I think I'll pat myself on the back. You don't mind, do you?" --Jerry Reynolds
Maybe the Maloofs intended to cooperate fully and promptly
but the email request from ICON to send the documents got stuck in a mail server and was rerouted to Coachie Carril’s inbox, who will forward it to Joe and Gavin ASAP, once he learns to power on his computer, and buys a cage for his ‘mouse’.
Thats best spin I got.
:"(
:
The Maloofs will always be some playas, Geoff Petrie can neva be a hata, Chris Webber will always be a playa, Mike Biiby can neva be a hata, Vlade Divac will always be a player, Doug Christe can neva be a hata, Bobby Jackson will always be a playa, Peja Stojakovic can neva be a hata, White Chocalate will always be a playa, Rick Adelman can neva be a hata, Pete Carril you know he's a playa, Kevin Martin can neva be a hata, Omri Casspi will always be a playa, DeMarcus Cousins can neva be a hata, Tyreke Evans now that's a real playa, THE SACRAMENTO KINGS NOW THEM SOME REAL PLAYAS!!!!!
Even if they plan to leave it is a dick move to not give up the information
KJ said that even if the kings lose we are still looking into making a new area.
I have a feeling that if they do move
They also kill talk of an arena.
If they stay, they likely will have to invest a significant amount of money into this new arena process. They’d have to spend $100 million+, if not more simply to leave (they’d have to pay off their debs in Sacramento, plus definitely get a relocation fee, especially since they’d be the third team in the Los Angeles market).
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Fuck this
We have worked hard all day and we have accomplished soooo much. I’m not ready to give up for this. We knew they would likely file before the 28th but that shouldn’t change our plans. Here We Stay is more than just an effort to build a new arena, we are now a community of people working their asses off to fight for what WE believe in.
I’ve said it too many times today, but I’m damn proud of being a Sacramento Kings fan. People have been working twitter like it’s nobody’s business all day. We have gotten endorsements from most bloggers around the country. Our story made it to the front page of Yahoo. I can bet anyone that there’s less than 1,000 tickets left for Monday’s game. And WE all did that.
One last stand, guys. If anyone is still willing, let’s just go down swinging. I know I will feel much better, no matter the outcome, after doing what was in my power to fight for what I believe in. If they’re gone, then they’re gone, but WE should all keep our heads held high because WE did the right thing and WE didn’t just sat and let it happen.
I can’t lie, I was also deflated as hell (probably still am), but if we all get down then not only is the team doomed, but our efforts will go to waste. I’m willing to be the idiot that will keep going. Anyone out there still willing to be an idiot with me?
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
by edm7 on Feb 21, 2011 10:00 PM PST reply actions 14 recs
I've been an idiot all my life.
Let’s keep it that way.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I will be there.
Im not giving up now. We may need a heart sting pulling effort that they make disney movies out of but…I will be there.
i don't want disney any where near my fucking kings
by Gilo424 on Feb 21, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough...is it too late
to send a child, preferably stuttering, to the Maloofs doorstep…ppppppplease dont go.
by Fairwood on Feb 21, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If we go down
lets go down swinging
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Im with you Ed
I will go down swinging right along with you
by MichaelMack on Feb 21, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you, ed
No reason to jump on the depression train right now. There will be plenty of time for that if/when they leave. I’m for focusing on the present.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
With you
No, with this team every step of the way until they are no longer the Sacramento Kings. This is OUR team, until the very last moment.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'm right behind you Ed
well, I’m actually 3000 miles or so behind you, but in spirit, I’m there.
Rumors will continue to wash over the internet and news, and we will not know the truth until after it’s all said and done.
This thing could be as “simple” as the Maloof’s lawyers not willing to release the documents until after they have verified there is nothing in there which may hurt their clients.
You can choose to:
a) believe this and get dejected and sit and mope;
b) ignore if for something that may or may not be true, and focus on the things you have influence on.
We have influence on how we send a message on the 28th. We can worry afterward.
Go Sacramento Kings!
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
by RikSmits on Feb 22, 2011 1:08 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm an idiot anyway Eddie.
I got nothing to lose.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
What really confuses me is that all of this
is in direct contradiction with everything else they have said this year. For one they said that ya, of course they were looking at all options, but are still committed to Sac. They also said that until the team is good again, a new arena doesn’t really matter right now. The biggest head scratcher for me is that they have constantly been telling us, the fans, to wait on them for one more year to make a big move for the team. They weren’t the only ones waiting in this. We have been waiting through their rebuilding process as well. Why would they ask us to wait, and then leave before that is over? What is happening?
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe that's one of our sayings LOL
They’ve been telling us to wait one more year, now it’s their turn to give us one more year
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
What else were they supposed to say?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Just a generic "We are still rebuilding"
They have been really specific to wait until this offseason, and expect a much improved team by next season. The things they are saying are too specific (especially for them) for me to completely believe that they are already committed to leaving.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
To put it simply
All of this seems so out of the blue this season that it is just really….strange
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's because everyone saw how under the cap they were
Look when your future is up in the air, you need a stadium, you have sustained a ton of losses and have a broken revenue stream, you are going to say things like that while you skimp on the cheap until you figure it out. It’s just the way it is. Remember that kid who rolled in her talking about Petrie making cracks about Maloof money.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
When I heard them though
I didn’t get the idea that they were just generic PR statements. They seemed to be genuine and specific. It doesn’t fit the normal mold of people who are already ready to go.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
Another point
is it seems very weird to me that the Maloofs would leave now and leave on bitter terms with Sacramento, where if they gave this last proposal a chance and it fails, then nobody could blame them if they left. After such a good relationship with the city for so many years, why would they throw all of that away before the 11th hour is up?
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would they give a shit about leaving on bitter terms?
It’s not like, if they wait another year and still end up filing, people are going to feel happy about it and go out of their way to try and sell out home games to say goodbye. Leaving on bitter terms is the lease of their concerns.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Because it's still PR image
and look at the Sonics situation. Everyone feels guilty about liking the Thunder because of the way they left Seattle. If they left now, they would be cutting ties with all fanbase here in Sacramento, or pretty much any current Kings fan for that matter. If they waited, then they could still salvage some fans who don’t feel slighted by the move.
Also, I like to give the Maloofs more credit than just saying they don’t give a shit about the city. Sorry Wally, but I just think they have earned some kind of benefit of the doubt, even during this situation.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I have a feeling the degree of heartbreak of fans from the old location might not be worth
the potential losses involved in not taking a deal that makes financial sense. Especially when you’ve had the economic problems the Maloofs have had. I also hate to say it, but this isn’t what happened in Seattle.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But to me them moving would only be a short-term benefit at best
of course I don’t know the actual details, but why would they jump the gun on this when they are going to be going through this arena crap in a few years all over again? My main point in all of this is that none of it makes any sense, and since it doesn’t make perfect sense, I don’t see why they would pull the trigger
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
well yeah you could be write about the fact that it might not make sense for them to do it
but trust me, the last concern they have here is how we’ll feel about them if they leave.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
That's where we differ
I’d like to think they do care. I see them as more than just cold-blooded businessmen. If they were, I think they’d already be gone. I think they really do like Sacramento and I don’t see them bailing on the city for a short term fix without any cares.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry but they ain't running a community center
and it’s not like they have been all that cold-blooded really.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Waiting one more season on the city you are rooted in
isn’t the same as running a community center. They are most likely going to be in similar financial situations either way they go. Moving right now would be taking the tough road, I don’t see them doing that. Sorry I feel that they are capable of having feelings.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, stop for a second
I am not arguing whether it’s a tough road or not right now them to leave. I have no idea. I personally think you are right but I got no clue. All I am saying is, at the end of the day, in making this decision, they are not factoring in how good or bad they look here in Sacramento. If it’s a bad deal and they stay it’s not because they love us. If it’s a good deal and they leave, it’s not because they are cold blooded. That’s it.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
If they stay
its because they love ME! I’ve been told I am kind of adorable.
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
by ElRonToro on Feb 21, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Does that mean if they leave we get to blame you?
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 11:23 PM PST up reply actions
You better put out ElRon!
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
At this point its whatever it takes
no butts about it
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
But god I hope its Joe and not Gavin
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Ok, I see what you are saying
I’m not saying that is going to make or break a deal for them, I just think it will be a factor in some way. It could just be one of the bullet marks on their “Pros on staying” list.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:23 PM PST up reply actions
Pros and Cons to the Maloofs moving to Anaheim:
Cons:
*They’d be 3rd in the market for basketball, not to mention the hockey and baseball teams, trying to get a new fanbase around them in a time when the NBA might not even have a season.
*Honda Center is 18 years old. The Maloofs would not own the building or profit from using it, unlike the current situation at ARCO.
*They’d have to pay the entirety of their debt to Sacramento, all $70 million, as well as a likely hefty relocation fee (I’m assuming hefty simply because while the owners would likely approve a move, they’d want compensation for giving SoCal another team)
*You’d lose an invested fanbase in Sacramento, where the team is the only one in town. You know that when times are good, the team can be profitable (I believe the Maloofs said the Kings were among the most profitable teams for a long time)
*Possibility of a brand new arena built by the ICON/Taylor group that could keep the team in town for a long, long time. This is not guaranteed, but moving before you find out would be a bit rash.
Pros:
*You’d be in a larger market (kind of)
*You’d have a better building than ARCO to play in… for maybe 5-10 years.
I can’t think of anything else.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 21, 2011 10:09 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
or profit from using it
You sure they couldn’t negotiate getting gate receipts?
They’d have to pay the entirety of their debt to Sacramento, all $70 million as well as a likely hefty relocation fee.
My memory might not be serving me right but I think Vancover, Charlotte, and Seattle all got $20 million. Also that $70 million could be offset by selling the Arco land which is valued somewhere around $46 million plus the fact that they would likely have to spend a great deal more in building a new stadium here.
As for Pros
- They don’t own the arena. That means they don’t have to pay a dime in property tax.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
Well for Kings games they'd get receipts
Not for other events.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I don't see how a TV deal works well for the 3rd team either
but I don’t know how these things shake out. A team’s income is more than gate receipts (I also don’t see merchandising doing well in the area)
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Not for a long time.
The team would have to get good, and fast.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
The Lakers are so ingrained into LA, they'll be #1 forever
And even the Clippers have a loyal following.
Think on this:
Last 10 years attendance ranking for Lakers: 7,8,11,7,7,7,7,9,8,8
Last 10 years attendance ranking for Clippers: 20,22,19,11,13,18,19,14,13,24
And these guys play in the same stinking building.
Last 10 years attendance ranking for Kings: 29,29,27,16,14,13,13,12,15,13
Sacramento saw a drop-off last few years as the team/economy grew crappier, and the only reason rankings weren’t higher during the good times was the limitations of Arena size, but each of those games were sold out.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
The Laker/Clipper gate is revelant
but the gate here doesn’t matter so much if they think they aren’t getting a new arena anytime soon
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
If the Taylor plan breaks down,
they’d be in the right in my mind to move. I’d be mad/sad, etc. but I wouldn’t be able to find fault with them.
I just don’t want them to relocate before giving it a chance. THAT would hurt, to know that something was possibly in the works, but the Maloofs didn’t want to wait the 90 days out and hear the plan.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 21, 2011 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is all I'm saying. Rec'd Aykis.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Regarding TV...the Clippers and Lakers own the rights to all of So Cal
its why even in San Diego they are blacked out for me on LP
Your pro reminds me of another con
They’d have to pay rent.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
and often much much cheaper than the property tax
that’s often a way city’s entice teams.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Well the loss of income from other events held at the arena
could offset that benefit.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Doubt it
most prop taxes are about 2% (don’t know about comml props) …that would be less than a million a year (taxeductible)….betcha lease is 5-10 million
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
I know I have already mentioned once or twice in the last week
but the Pacers pay a grant total of $1 in rent a year.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Que?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
you said grant... being a smartass...
Just ignore me. My girlfriend learned to do so awhile ago and she’s been much happier
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
$5 million is still likely to be below 2%
just sayin
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Good summation.
And the new CBA per David Stern will likely include more revenue sharing among all teams so that smaller market teams are in improved financial position relative to larger markets. This kind of talk dulls me, but I take it to mean the Kings revenue stream could receive nice boost next year by doing nothing, if they stay.
Another Con
Two ‘home’ games against L*kers become ‘road’ games. Effectively your schedule becomes 43 road, 39 home.
It's already like that BB
When was the last time you’ve been to a Kings/Lakers game at Arco?
I love beating dead horses.
Relocation fees are entirely up to the NBA Board of Governors
Who may waive it entirely, if they wish.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Doesn't make sense to me that they would waive it
Considering the two LA owners are going to be throwing a bitch fit about someone else moving into their market.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I don't think two voters on their own can get the price up too high
but for what it’s worth they could very well stick to the number they’ve been at the last few times.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Why did OKC have to pay a relocation fee?
Where does the relocation fee go to ? the old city, the new city, or the other nba owners?
I think it's pooled among all the franchises
could be wrong but I think you could find it if you look.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
What Wally said
Split among the 29 other teams evenly.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
That would be pretty shocking
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Not so good news
they could have gotten informal insurances at what price tag would be during the all star weekened and adjusting accordingly
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
yeh 30 million more of debt
If I were them I’d be worried of a lawsuit from the Clippers and Sterling because they are the ones that could eventually become the 3rd team in the region…I’d want 100 million if I was sterling for territorial righs to offset future revenue losses. If Sterling was Al Davis he would make a fortune off of this.
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
And you know Sterling is going to try to make a profit off of this
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't the Lakers and Clippers have had to have already essentially bought the territorial rights though in some form?
The NBA seems really murky on this issue to me. Apparantly a huge chunk of the Warriors big price tag was +$100 million in territorial rights for the Bay Area and San Jose.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
different than territory infringement fees
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
which goes to the team who holds the territorial rights
(i like finishing sentences)
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Its like we only have 1 brain between us!
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Fanpost that
That’s actually a nicely written article by a Southern Californian newspaper. That doesn’t seem possible.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
True
The OC Register is one of the worst papaers in the country.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Feb 22, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
I was gonna say what LP said...
…Heisler is a pretty good columnist.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
That article is MUCH better than that other trash from the OC tribune or whatever it was
They even talk about the Here We Stay campaign. Word is getting out!
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
After thinking more about it, I'll throw up a Con that runs a bit counter to what I said earlier
Anaheim has a hockey teams as it’s primary tenant. No way are they going to give the Kings the onesided lease nor are they going to avoid as many costs as possible. The Ducks aren’t going to take on a larger burden here.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
I don't like Hockey arenas for hoop
when your in the corners you are staring right or left because the seats are slanted fore the larger hockey set up.
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Plus
The NHL season runs concurrent with the NBA season. The two teams would have scheduling issues that would be complicated. Not impossible mind you, quite a few teams share with Hockey teams, but its just another issue.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Of course, I got zero clue what the Ducks lease is
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
If they file on March 1st, the only interesting thing left to see will be what a Kings game looks like on TV in front of 35 people.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 21, 2011 10:32 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
It will be interesting
Your season ticket holders are already vested, so will they just flush their remaining investment? I will probably ride out my remaining tickets, but I will find a way not to spend an extra penny there.
It will also be interesting to see what the last game tickets fetch, price-wise. End of an era kind of thing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I was at the very 1st Sac Kings game, so I feel like I’d have to be at the last. (And I’m man enough to admit I’d cry at the final horn.)
rec'd, +1, FTW, This.
by TheJust on Feb 21, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I will go also
could be the last 13 nba games I see live
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Amick just confirmed to me via twitter
that a Kings source has labeled the $100 million loan offer as “not accurate”.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I would think so
Trying to get clarification on what that means from Sam.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
the fact there is no $100 million loan?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Seems like it could be either way
like just the number is inaccurate but it’s not off the table?
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
For all we know they could be offering more
Not likely, but it could be
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
If they were offering more
we’d know. $100 million is a helluva lot of money already.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
That's why I said not likely
All I’m saying is that it could be a possibility. Sorry, when I hear bad news, I usually go into worst-case scenario mode.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Crandall on fox 40 does not think they will move
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Talked to people in the organization and gut feeling
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
He knows JR well
and GP also
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Yeah but
Those guys don’t make decisions on moving. That’s up for the Maloofs, and the Maloofs alone really.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
Are you sure Tyreke doesn't decide?
I don’t think they want to upset him
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I see where you are taking this prowse and this is a very salient point
Is moving in the blueprint?
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
I like Jim
Good guy. Hope he’s right.
I just don’t see it making sense for the Kings to file this year. Next year, if Taylor/ICON fails, then I do. But now I don’t. Just. No.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I again think if they don't get a super sweatheart deal
they will file for an extension on the relocation and wait for the Taylor decision
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
Guh. Extension would just drag this pit in my stomach further
but I could live with that over straight relocation for now. Hoping they simply don’t file for anything this year.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
I would think a "sweetheart deal' might be found somewhere other than Anaheim
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
not before this deadline
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
I could be wrong
But I think btw was saying, they could file this year, look for a “sweetheart deal” and if it doesn’t surface ohwell.
eh I think they can ask for an extension on the deadline
not sure though
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
Voison said yes a few days ago
BoGs would have to approve
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
the thing is
if the file for relocation and the Arena deal doesn’t work out – try and sell tickets – season or otherwise.
Also, everyone is talking about Anaheim, but many other possibilities exist to other areas, just because Anaheim is in the news doesn’t make it an exclusive choice.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
true
but that would be a pretty stunning development. Have a hard time believing nobody would have sniffed that out by now.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
God I would give anything for the rumor to shift to SJ
So much easier to stomach
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
by kangsfan on Feb 21, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm thinking of a medically induced coma until 3/2
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
they sell medicine in West Sac
if you have green prescription paper
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My worst fear...
…is that they file for an extension to get Samueli to fork over a better deal than what he’s currently offering after Taylor/ICON come up with a way to finance an arena.
That’s what I fear most.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I'd rather have the Maloofs get an extension and hear the Taylor plan, then decide to move even if Taylor/ICON comes up with a good plan
than to have them bail before the Taylor process can happen the way it should. It would kill me more to never even know if we could build an arena than to know that it’s possible but have the Maloofs fuck us over. I don’t want the Maloofs to be able to pin this on us in any way; if they’re going to be leaving for greener pastures, let them leave with their tails between their legs.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hmmm.
That’s a very good point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I have to admit, this has the vinegar and water fragrance of OC:
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 21, 2011 10:51 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
With a brutal hint of AXE.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
you are so full of crap andy and you can't fool me. You have no idea what you are talking about
you can’t hint AXE
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm trying to be upbeat here!
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
More entertainment complex, one presumes.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 21, 2011 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This just reminds me of Zena Warrior Princess for some reason
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Because the claims of both are entirely fictional?
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Something is wrong with this picture
Gavin isn’t wearing an Ed Hardy T-Shirt…
Must be Photoshopped.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
If this happens
I say we take the vow now to all become Trolls on the anaheim Kings of LA website. I get dibs on the name CowboyElRon.
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
by ElRonToro on Feb 21, 2011 11:03 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
DaUconnWally
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
Slamson4u?
The Maloofs will always be some playas, Geoff Petrie can neva be a hata, Chris Webber will always be a playa, Mike Biiby can neva be a hata, Vlade Divac will always be a player, Doug Christe can neva be a hata, Bobby Jackson will always be a playa, Peja Stojakovic can neva be a hata, White Chocalate will always be a playa, Rick Adelman can neva be a hata, Pete Carril you know he's a playa, Kevin Martin can neva be a hata, Omri Casspi will always be a playa, DeMarcus Cousins can neva be a hata, Tyreke Evans now that's a real playa, THE SACRAMENTO KINGS NOW THEM SOME REAL PLAYAS!!!!!
Fuck SoCal?
The Maloofs will always be some playas, Geoff Petrie can neva be a hata, Chris Webber will always be a playa, Mike Biiby can neva be a hata, Vlade Divac will always be a player, Doug Christe can neva be a hata, Bobby Jackson will always be a playa, Peja Stojakovic can neva be a hata, White Chocalate will always be a playa, Rick Adelman can neva be a hata, Pete Carril you know he's a playa, Kevin Martin can neva be a hata, Omri Casspi will always be a playa, DeMarcus Cousins can neva be a hata, Tyreke Evans now that's a real playa, THE SACRAMENTO KINGS NOW THEM SOME REAL PLAYAS!!!!!
Chapufucku
I'm feeling like I want to rage...right now.
-#38
by kangsfan on Feb 21, 2011 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Side note... Won't the LA Kings be pissed?
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 11:05 PM PST reply actions
Probably ask for a name change
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
They should change it to the Royals
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
The would keep it OC
Let’s see they have the Angels and the Ducks – how about the Dudes?
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The Los Angeles Tiffany's of Anaheim in Southern California North of San Diegoians
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
SACRAMENTO KINGS!!!!
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
The Anaheim Abdicators - would keep the Kings/Royals theme
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:17 PM PST up reply actions
the only other heirachical titles that start with A are
Archbishop and Ayatollah
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
anaheim antichrists?
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
OC ogres
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
I guess they go with the Dukes
and be abbreviated as the OCDs. Maybe they would want to get Mike Bibby back on the squad.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 21, 2011 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
Donald DucKings
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
by kromeace on Feb 21, 2011 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I was saying mostly because I want them to stay
But it’s not bad. If they do leave, I like Heuristic’s idea better
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 21, 2011 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
The Oceanside Regicide
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 21, 2011 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Orange County Twats makes sense.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 21, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think if they moved they would have to change their name
if they want to sell anything. So-Cal sees the Kings as a joke, especially Lakers fans. I don’t see bringing the Kings down there without a name change
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
Fuck the Maloof's and fuck their Rosey Palms
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
I think im going to take a different route on this whole thing
If I were trying to convince a city to rally around a sports team that has been steadily declining in ticket sales, along with the impending arena decision that has a stubborn city council and unwilling city residents, i might just play the bluff card too. This would be a perfect time to light a fire under a city to make the people there realize how shitty it would be if they left. Then again, I don’t know if the Maloofs care enough to do all of that.
I dont know, just different, more optimistic perspective i guess
by KingsSince1990 on Feb 21, 2011 11:36 PM PST reply actions
well
then it would be an awfully stupid move to not give Taylor/ICON group information to help them make a better pitch.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
I still don't get heading to an 18 year old Arena
I really want to see how long the lease is for
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
yeah more than anything else
I really want to see what is so enticing.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 21, 2011 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
Simple
It’s a better arena than Arco. A WAY better arena than Arco. It’s less about age and more about amenities. Arco is a 25 year old shitbox and Honda Ctr is an 18 year old well cared for luxury car.
Yea...but I still wouldn't sign a 30 year lease
on an 18 year old anything
In my quest to set the family record and live to 103, I am beginning to get pissed at the amount of body parts falling off along the way.
True
An 18-year-old could be fun for awhile, though.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
it's a shame this came so late
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
True
But you also do trade in for an 18 yr old luxury when your 25 yr old shitbox is about to fall apart.
If they do relocate, I can't decide if i'd still follow the franchise
i mean, i hate SoCal teams, but I do like all of the players on the Kings
by KingsSince1990 on Feb 21, 2011 11:46 PM PST reply actions
Just threw up in my mouth
If this goes down there should be a David Stern effigy night and a mock all star weekend…
by John Takanikos on Feb 21, 2011 11:55 PM PST reply actions
If they leave, can the team at least be called the
California Kings rather than the Anaheim Kings?! At least that way we can still feel some connection to them. Plus, they could prolly get more revenue.
Check out my news parody blog, in which I make fun of current events @ liveonlocation.blogspot.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
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There's already the "Golden State" Warriors
so unless they change to San Francisco Warriors, I’m not sure that’d be allowed.
Author of the Pick and Scroll. Follow me on Twitter here.
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Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Feb 22, 2011 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You're going to make me cry.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
This is your work, chen?
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
Bravo, sir.
You’ve pushed the gif format to new places. It’s not just nutshots anymore.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
Awesome chen
great work.
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
Thank God I went to bed happy, before this was posted.
But this ruined my morning. Shit.
Guys, we need a miracle. Someone tell me they’re not going to move.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
Thanks for the effort.
In these times, you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning.
~Carl Sandburg
This part really bewilders me
What’s more, it appears they are highly motivated to move into a larger market before a new collective bargaining agreement is in place.
The NBA’s current CBA expires on June 30, and the owners are pushing for the sort of structure — i.e. a hard salary cap at approximately $45 million — that would put the Kings in prime position to improve their team via free agency quickly because of their league-low payroll.
All indications have been that there will be a push for a more small-market-friendly revenue sharing system during the CBA discussions. Being in a larger market makes sense in general, but why would the Maloofs be “highly motivated” to get out of their small market before the revenue sharing is changed? Also, this would be the first time that some motivation to leave has emerged that doesn’t have to do with getting an arena built. Where the hell did that come from? Did the Maloofs find out during all-star weekend that the revenue sharing they’d been hoping for isn’t going to happen?
The way that Amick follows this bit with the bit about the salary cap (though in a new paragraph) seems to suggest that they would want to be in a larger market to help entice better free agents. Yikes. Wouldn’t that mean that they’ve lost all hope in Geoff Petrie’s ability to bring good players to Sacramento? I’m sure the Maloofs are damn tired of this rebuild, but it would be a pretty sudden and drastic departure from the way they’ve been handling things over the past couple of seasons if they’ve decided there’s no hope for this team if they continue along the current plan.
I dunno, this whole part of the article really sticks out to me as being very un-Malooflike. Either Sam’s source on this is just running their mouth a bit, the “real Maloofs” are starting to show up, something drastic happened to send them in a new direction (hearing something bad from Stern or other owners this past weekend), or I’m just totally misinterpreting things. I don’t do the twitter, but maybe Aykis or someone else can try to get a clarification from Sam on this part? If the Maloofs are suddenly “highly motivated” to leave Sac in a way that has nothing to do with an arena, then this is a whole new ballgame.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 7:03 AM PST reply actions
It isn't the salary, it is the potential endorsements.
If players all are beholden to a hard cap, then outside income will be even more attractive. For instance, the endorsements for a Knicks player have the potential to be of greater value than the basketball contract itself. The LA market is similar. Now consider Sacramento – we couldn’t even get a reasonable corporate sponsor for our arena.
As much as it sucks, I believe the Kings are as good as gone.
I'm not saying that's not true, I'm saying that's no way to run a sports league.
If it’s no longer viable to have a long-term successful franchise in a small market, then the league needs to just contract about a third of the teams and/or move another one into MSG, another into the United Center, another into Boston, etc.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, I completely agree with you about this.
I think this is the direction that the league is headed anyway.
There will be some limiting factor where fans will be alienated, however I can’t imagine what that place will be. Stern is talking about expansion into Europe. There are many titanic media centers which he could exploit. China is also an eventual target. There is just no way that Sacramento can compete. You will see more franchises move in the next few years.
Last dance...? :(
No more…
No more…
No more…
No more…
No More…
No more…
No more…
NO NEW ENTERTAINMENT COMPLEX, NO KINGS… AND EVERYONE LOSES!
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
by kromeace on Feb 22, 2011 8:10 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
blame the idiots that post in sacbee who can't see the need for a new arena.
"And Solskjaer has won it!"
by 'tough as nails' spence on Feb 22, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
It's not them.
It’s the public in Sacramento that doesn’t get it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
The idiots at sacbee.com do a good job in representing that public though
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
by raiderking21 on Feb 22, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah.
There’s plenty of unseen and unheard public on this issue. They need to be the one’s to get a vote through if a vote comes (which is my guess).
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
With all due respect...
Guys – I think it is unfair to suspect that the voting public doesn’t get it.
I have lived in Sacramento for the past 45 years. The city was FINE before the Kings came. It has been fun, but count me amongst the citizens that absolutely do not want to spend public funds on a new arena. If this were such a great business opportunity, a private concern or the city would be doing it. Arenas just aren’t huge money-makers, but they ARE potential money losers. I’m not gambling with dollars that could be spent on schools or public works. I understand to argument about peripheral businesses, but we already don’t have that to any large degree in Natomas.
Sacramento is just very ill-suited to the financial realities of the modern NBA. The league is dominated by corporate sponsorships. We don’t have ANY of that, and in the absence of that, the tax base or ownership must absorb the costs. Guess what? – The Maloofs are businessmen who are running the Kings in order to be profitable. That margin is very small in Sacramento. It will be MUCH larger in Anaheim.
In addition, if the Maloofs were hugely interested in staying here, they COULD fund a new arena. Look at the Giants – Pac Bell was funded with private money. The franchise is carefully run financially, and they not only are thriving, they just won the World Series. At the same time SF has far more money in their fanbase than does Sacramento.
I get that I am really being a ‘killjoy’ here, but I really think that the fat lady has been singing for quite some time.
Respectfully disagree
I have also been here prior to the arrival of the Kings – since 1959, in fact.
First, there is no denying the impact that will be felt if/when the Kings leave. It will cost hotels, restaurants, limo and taxi companies revenue. It will knock out a pretty good size employer out of Sacramento (Maloof Sports & Entertainment).
I’ve never understood the argument that monies spent would be at the expense of schools or public works. I’ve never seen that offered, intimated or suggested.
There is no reason for the Maloofs to fund their own arena if other cities are willing to build or have already built one. Supply and demand.
I suppose that in the end it comes down to what your definition of “fine” is as it pertains to a city. I would think of a city as a “fine” place to live when it can offer the cultural, entertainment and sporting trappings of other cities. I suppose others would be satisfied with the smaller town feel of a Redding or a Fresno. It’s a matter of personal choice. That said, I sure prefer the Sacrmento of the past few years over the Sacramento that had me driving nearly two hours if I wanted to see a professional basketball game.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Agree - I never said that the Maloofs were objectively 'wrong' for moving.
I simply said that the public should not have to pay for them to stay.
I can find no numbers on how many people that Maloof Entertainment employs locally. Do you know? I suspect it isn’t very many, and I expect that most of those jobs are low wage jobs – concessions, ticket takers, retail workers – etc. I don’t ‘deny’ that there will be an impact – just not a very big one. The Kings are not generating big local revenue. There is no way there is big hotel revenue associated. As I said – I’m not disputing SOME affect, just that the lost revenue would remotely justify the public financing of a new arena.
Clearly the ‘demand’ for the Kings in Sacramento is not very great. I agree that the Maloofs are acting in their best interests. As a voter and fan of the Kings, I do the same.
We are cutting school funding as we speak, and yet the arena was going to be funded out of a 15 year tax increase – clearly what we choose to raise money for is absolutely a commentary on city priorities. Money taxed for the Kings is money that won’t be taxed or raised for local schools. There are many districts which are augmenting state funding with local funding as the education budgets of districts shrink. In short, money being cut from schools could be made up through local funding. I am unwilling to pay for an arena rather than a school. I am just one voter however.
Agreed on the definition of ‘fine.’ I’ve absolutely do not prefer the Sacramento that we have had since the Kings have been here. I do not think the Kings have really improved the quality of life in Sacramento at all, and I am one who theoretically benefited. I have MANY friends who would tell you that they have nothing whatsoever to do with the Kings. There is no reason that they should help perpetuate their presence. I concede that this is my personal opinion and not some objective truth.
My wife and I live off of a so called "Low wage job"
and I can tell you that if we lost it the impact for us would be huge, so to say that 1000 people losing their jobs can just be swept under the rug because they are poor anyways is kind of insensitive to me.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
They are one of the top 25 employers in the Sacramento area
Over 150 full time and 1,000 part time employees. There is also the matter of the annual $100,000 donation that MS&E makes to local charities, along with the countless hours donated by players and coaches to local causes.
And with all due respect, I would encourage you to look any employee at the arena in the eye and tell them that the impact will not be a very big one.
You once again bring up the matter of school funding being cut. This has absolutely nothing to do with the arena, and never has. Perhaps we should blame the arena situation for Furlough Fridays as well.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I just came back to post the job stats
you just beat me to the punch
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
You know what? You guys are ridiculous. I NEVER dismissed anyone's employment.
Get as pissed as you want. I’m NOT dismissing the effect of 1000 jobs, I’m saying that as juxtaposition to funding a new arena it makes no fiscal sense.
In addition – please furnish me with some evidence that MS&E is a top 25 employer. I am legitimately interested if that is true – I’m willing to be educated on that point – but I have a hard time believing it with no evidence.
It seems to me that you guys are pitching a very emotional case about the Kings leaving, and while I AM sorry for the people losing jobs if the Kings leave, I suspect the cost of those jobs is small in comparison to the bill the public gets for a new arena.
In addition prowseinthehouse, I’m actually far more inclined to support a tax increase to either provide more jobs such as you and your wife live off of, or increase the pay of those jobs – those uses of public money seem to me far more necessary than publicly funding an arena. I’d rather give the money straight to the public than to millionaires/billionaires.
These are the top 11 employers.
1 State of California 73,273
2 Sacramento County 13,304
3 UC Davis Health System 8,496
4 Kaiser Permanente 7,979
5 Sutter Health 7,314
6 Sacramento City Unified School District 6,500
7 Elk Grove Unified School District 6,391
8 Intel 6,000
9 Mercy/Catholic Healthcare West 5,922
10 San Juan Unified School District 5,190
11 City of Sacramento 4,556
I find it hilarious
that someone that casually links school budget cuts to the arena wants proof of my statement, but here you go. – My bet is that they rank much higher than 25th if you only consider the private sector.
And I was never pissed, but I will admit a certain frustration with the fact that I share this city with a bunch of people that would prefer to see it remain a backwoods-ass country town. I’d like to see a Broadway-scale play without having to travel to San Francisco. I’d like to see a group like the Foo Fighters without having to drive to the Sac-Valley Amphitheatre. I’d like to see this city be representative of being the capital of the 5th largest economy in the world. But hey, maybe that’s just me.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 22, 2011 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
What was the last 'play' shown in ARCO?
Complete nonsense. I find it equally hilarious that you feel the need to distort my argument because you choose not to agree with it. Your BET means nothing. Provide me with something concrete. I’d guess that Maloof Entertainment is not in the top 100 employers in Sacramento.
In addition, I EXPLAINED exactly what I was talking about with taxes and educational shortfall. I agree that an arena is not TAKING money out of schools, however, I noted the priority of attempting a tax hike to address an arena, but no such hike to help finance schools.
It IS the Capital of one of the largest economies in the world. It will remain so even if the Kings leave.
Your priorities involving the Kings under certain conditions is certainly, obviously, not limited to you. It has proven, however, not to be the priority of a majority of Sacramento voters.
Sacramento ain't the capital of shit.
It’s the capital of small minded limited bureacracy. Outside of DC, it’s probably the only other city in this it’s personalized special export. Unlike DC, you can’t blame the 50 states for hamstringing them in making changes. Sac has no excuse.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Oh and this is why I left.
I can’t live in a city that refuses to understand that this is the 2nd decade of the 21st century and not the mid 70’s of the previous century.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
That's why I'm going to leave when I graduate
I have defended this town left and right but I feel like I’m being let down by the city big-time and am losing faith in it’s people, and I’m not talking about HoopsMike. He is at least making an argument for his opinion and is actually paying attention to the situation. I can’t hold it against him personally because I disagree. What I’m talking about is all of the idiots who say they don’t care what happens and are completely against even getting educated about it. This applies to much more than the arena too, I’m becoming really tired of the wanting to be taken serious but not wanting to take it upon ourselves to actually do something to prove we deserve that.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
???????????????? Despite the hyperbole, it IS the Capital of California.
Explain.
I agree that Sacramento has many shortcomings, however I’m not really getting you when you complain about it being a bureaucracy. It is the most populous state, the richest state, and the most ethnically and culturally diverse state – of course it is going to have a complex and often gridlocked bureaucracy.
I actually agree with posters regarding some of the cultural limitations of Sacramento, however I don’t see the Kings as one of those. Seattle has remained quite vibrant. Sacramento is geographically central to the state. There are an incredible number of activities and places you can experience from Sacramento. By all means go to OK City or Indianapolis, or Salt Lake City. I’m thinking that Sacramento might not seem so bad.
In addition, if living in an NBA city is of major import to you, there are over 30 choices.
You're right you don't get it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I just don't really think your point is valid.
CLEARLY not everyone in Sacramento shares your priorities.
Do you work in government? Do you know much about the workings of CA government?
Sigh.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I ESPECIALLY love when you are being dismissive.
It was a serious question.
I just wonder as I DO work for one of the bargaining units in the state and am involved in state politics as part of my job.
The issues in CA government are VERY complex. I appreciate that they are frustrating, and often ill-conceived, but they aren’t at all simple.
And I especially enjoy that you think that it matters the capitol of such tomfoolery is that big of a deal.
It’s not.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Let me put it this way Mike
A government can not be an economic engine all by itself. There has to be support of it. And, the state government doesn’t generate revenue like the federal government does. It’s not like being in DC.
This is silly. I get you think it’s important; I never said you thought it being important was silly.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
One other thing
How many people ever notice that Boston, Atlanta, Denver or Phoenix are state capitols of their respective states?
I was watching The Departed last night and pointed out the State House (a very famous landmark) and the guy didn’t even know that Boston was the state capitol of Mass.
How many people notice that Phx is the capitol or Arizona? Who cares? Nobody.
How many people have you ever met that have ever talked about Georgia’s state government in conjunction with Atlanta? When?
Denver?
I rest my case.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I was watching The Departed last night with a few guys^ (I realize that looks funny. Sorry about that.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
ARCO is not built for Broadway-scale plays
Nothing in Sacramento can house (for example) the Broadway-scale “The Lion King.” That’s the point.
I would love discussing the merits of the horesless carriage with you, but I’m off to greater pursuits. Cheers.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Of course not - NO arena is.
I honestly don’t know what you are talking about. The Community Center Theater is precisely built for that. As is the Wells Fargo Pavilion. Sacramento actually HAS a vibrant theater community.
For comparison, here is a seating chart for all of the listed theaters in Manhattan:
I’m actually far more inclined to support a tax increase to either provide more jobs such as you and your wife live off of
So you would vote down a measure to get an arena that already provides many of these jobs (Not to mention all of the jobs and revenue provided just by the construction) but vote on something that would provide these kind of jobs? In what ways would a tax increase provide jobs?
I’m not trying to fight, and I’m not getting pissed off, I just don’t really understand the logic you are using and the connections you are making.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yes - I would vote down such a measure if it involved public funds.
I was actually attempting to demonstrate that if JOBS are the issue, there are far better ways to finance jobs that to publicly finance an arena. If we were creating more low wage jobs, there are MANY which we could fund through increased taxes – be it cleaning the American River bike trail or funding low-level teacher aide positions at the local JCs.
The arena issue is not the only way to create jobs. There are many far more effective ways to do it without subsidy for the rich.
What if the tax
wasn’t an income tax but a tax on hotels and things that would affect tourists? There are more ways to raise money than taking from our income
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed. Certainly an interesting possibility.
I’m wondering if such a study has been completed.
How long would the tax last? How much money are we talking about? What is the city’s obligation if the tax doesn’t cover the mortgage payment? Would such a tax provide a net profit to the city/arena financiers, or would it discourage tourism non-affiliated with the Kings?
A serious question...
Even if a new arena went through and was approved, how long would the Maloofs have to stay? It still doesn’t address the issue of corporate funding sources. I don’t see a long term solution to the problem of revenue shortages versus the monied teams in the league.
I believe that Sacramento has the fewest Fortune 500 corporate headquarters of any NBA city. I’ll see if I can confirm that, but I believe it is correct. Structurally, that is certainly a problem.
Let me ask you, would you keep the Kings under the condition that we would be unable to keep more than one max player at any one time? I’m thinking of an NBA version of the Oakland As. Would you be OK with a franchise where we had little likelihood of holding onto our talent? I’m not saying that is what would/will happen, but it is a strong possibility.
I don't know how their finances work
but during the “glory years” the Maloofs have said the Kings were a very profitable team, and that was with the limitations of Arco, so I don’t see that they would have problems with that after they improve the team. Also if longterm viability was an issue to begin with, they would have left long ago. They were also willing to spend over the cap at that time as well.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
The NBA is different now.
I agree with you, but I suspect that the NBA is continuing in its monetary growth. ARCO wasn’t so brutal 10 years ago. The city had money 10 years ago. These are different times.
Unfortunately, we are hitting a perfect storm of needs along with financial shortfall. The city doesn’t have many chips to put in the pot.
Likely a pretty tough sell
Not sure if the hotel industry would be willing to do that. Not worth it for most of them.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
As much as I myself also have plently of questions about justifiable public financing
You might be better off looking for the numbers yourself and if you feel like talking about it you can have an open and honest discussion about it.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not the one asserting the position of value.
I’m asking people asserting the argument to defend it – that is all. I’m cool with being convinced, I just have seen nothing compelling. Aside from emotional arguments – which I understand – I don’t see any evidence that this is good for the public.
In addition, I DID post employment numbers, the only numbers posted so far.
You did post numbers and you mentioned public funding for schools
It’s just that we have no clue how much public funding we are talking about or even if it will matter in a few days. Furthermore, I am not even sure that it’s the greatest idea to justify publicly subsidizing a private company just because of how many people they hire but more of whether the project subsidized will bring in more jobs (pretty sure about $50,000 a job created is on the higher threshold amount in city planning circles) and talking about education not only isn’t necessarily relevant (wouldn’t you think comparing different job creators and how effective they are and their price is a better idea maybe?) but it also prejudices one side because now you got people talking about little babies versus big sports team.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Possibly. A fair point.
True enough.
I’ll completely throw out the school issue.
Where are the job numbers?
Here is a study from 2005 which discusses exactly why public financing of new stadiums/arenas does or doesn’t take place, and states that it is almost never a good financial move:
http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/anderson/Micro-Principles/stadiums.pdf
Hoops Mike
this isn’t something you are going to sparse out on a message board. Did you even have enough time to read this and understand everything you just linked?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
Please.
I’ve read this before. It is one of the reasons that I don’t believe that subsidizing an arena is a good civic investment.
C’mon man. It seems like you are now trying to discredit my information (which you may or may not agree with) by accusing me of posting random links. Read the thing(s) – The Times article actually cites the first study.
In addition, if you guys arguing to FUND an arena publicly would provide evidence or links, I’d be glad to read it. Of course, like Exxon, if it is funded by the very folks who are doing the construction, I will take that with a grain of salt. An independent study would be great. It doesn’t even need to be comprehensive. I’ll take whatever you’ve got.
someone's defensive tonight
If you can’t take a hint then I am going to have to be blunt or else you are going to start reading into things like I am part of some group of “you guys” or I am “trying to discredit” a very well known article that’s been around for 10 years that is far from “random.”
1. People are riled up right now with no idea if there is going to even be a chance to see if there could even be a plan here in Sac.
2. Throwing out articles that are over 100 pages in a comment thread without offering much analysis from the get go is just asking for nothing but trash talking back and forth unless you know what type of numbers we are looking at here in Sacramento, avoid saying things like “Oh but the children” and be the all around most tactful commenter I have seen around in these parts . What, you think someone is just going to click it, read the whole thing, use it as a starting point to research the topic of public financing more, then find all the research of what the plans have been in Sacramento and who was dividiing up what and then get back to you in an hour?
SImply put, you’re going to be ramming your head into a brick wall going this route. Sorry I really wanted to say this in a more delicate and tactful manner because obviously you can do whatever you want but considering it somehow turned into “you guys” “trying to discredit” Andrew Zimbalist of all people.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
well that went off a cliff at the end
mean for a “…” at the end there
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
Whatever....
I have explained my point. It isn’t complicated. The public shouldn’t finance arenas at all – ever – but especially when the state and nation are in a financial cesspool. If you don’t want to read it – don’t.
In addition, the article is 19 pages long, which you would know if you had actually any interest in reading it.
I’m not defensive, nor did I misunderstand if you, in fact, speak English. You questioned whether I had even read the content of my posts – I had, although it is becoming clear that you have not.
In addition: regarding the “numbers you are looking at here in Sacramento”….? WTF??? I’m FROM Sacramento. I’ve lived here for 45 years. You?
..and YES, I do expect folks to actually defend their point rationally. If there is a rational defense, it might actually be the kind of thing that would be a good argument to keep the Kings here.
No worries. No need to go on. I hope the Kings stay – doubt they will.
No I didn't read it
I just saw the page numbers and thought it was 100 pages and yeah would have zero interest reading that much nomatter what tonight. I don’t care if it’s the cure for cancer either, I simply don’t want to read that much.
Not quite sure what you thought I meant by numbers but I think it was a tad big more benign then you thought it was. Here’s an example.
Either way, please ease up on trying to guage my intent if you could? You are right I didn’t read it because it looked all kinds of long and I certaintly won’t read the 20 pages tonight and if I were to I absolutely wouldn’t start applying it right away in one night to the conversation even though right now I have a pretty good idea of some of the stuff it talks about.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Section gave a link saying the numbers for MS&E
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry - I don't see a link.
Am I missing something?
I’d like to read the link.
I saw him mention 1000 employees and a 100k charitable contribution.
Its in a hyperlink
but I’ll relink it for you here: Link
It’s not much to read but it is the link to the MS&E job site that says the stats
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks! I appreciate that.
I would feel better if this was from an independent source, but it is something.
I wonder if part-time or seasonal employees count when a jurisdiction is accumulating census type data.
I’d also like to see what the mode is of the income distribution produced by MS&E.
I heard somewhere
that the Maloofs are the 1/3 largest employer in Sacramento, with the first being governent, and I don’t know who is 2nd. That would be a HUGE hit to the unemployment rate, there are already many more people needing jobs than there are jobs available, add another 1000 people to that mix? Bad stuff. That’s not even noting all of the companies that depend on the arena for their business, like you said, cabs, limos, etc that will most likely lay off many many employees because there just wont be any work for them. As for the Natomas point made earlier, how could anyone say that there isn’t much improvement there, I’m too young to see the days before the Kings, and I have even noticed the huge boom in Natomas. That place used to be a dump. Now it’s filled with business and housing.
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
There is also the indirect hit
to all of those that work in industries that support the sports/entertainment industry, as I noted earlier (transit, dining, etc.).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Right
BJ’s in Natomas has to fire half of it’s servers, those kids aren’t spending their dough at Best Buy and Del Taco, etc., etc.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 22, 2011 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
I saw that after I posted
when I looked it up. I think I heard it on Napears show and he was off about their ranking, but he was right that they have over 1000 employees
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 22, 2011 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
bit of a sidenote
Look at the Giants – Pac Bell was funded with private money.
Unfortunately the site for whatever reason is a bit on the frits at the moment but here is probably the most respected list of stadium costs and levels of public subsidies out there. Just look under the research section.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 22, 2011 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
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