The rise of DMC and the traditional PG
Now we all know the positions on the basketball court. Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, Power Forward, Center. Or at least those are the traditional roles as defined the basketball gods. But in the recent past (if you count the 80's as recent past) and present, different players have been stretching and even changing those definitions. Magic Johnson played every position, Rashard Lewis and the stretch 4, point forwards like Hedo, Tyreke and the NaPG. Those are just a few of the examples of the player defining the position. Now what does this have to do with our own DeMonstrous?
During the golden era of Kings ball, there wasn't a traditional PG after the initial surge with J-Will. Mike Bibby was not a pass first facilitator guard. He was a shooter, and a pretty dead eye one at that. At his very best for the black and purple he averaged just above 5 assist per game (much like our own NaPG) Doug Christie was no John Stockton either. So a lot of the playmaking fell into the hands of our bigs. Now we were blessed to have two of the best passing bigs in the game, willing and able passers who could see the floor and deliver with speed, precision, and grace. It was not uncommon to see C-Webb or Vlade have the highest assist total on any given night. Now I realize that was a different coach, a different time, a different team. I know how we all want to relive those glory days and think of how good it was to be the greatest show on the court. Can the young mister Cousins provide that?
Does the emergence of Demarcus's passing game negate the need for that pass first point guard that we all seem to crave? Would a player who can shoot and defend (more than Beno anyway) at either the 1 or 2 position be enough without the need to put up CP3 level assist numbers? Would someone like Iggy (or Iggy himself if the trade machine truly is all powerful) be a the perfect backcourt fit with our ROY? 5.2 assists from 'Reke, 5.7 from Iggy, and 5 from Boogie. Another 2 assists or so from the other 2 positions and you are averaging 20 assist per game. A rather solid number for some good team basketball.
So tell me fellow denizens of StR, can this be. Could that be the return to "the greatest show on court"? Or am I reading to much into the numbers as approved by the Small Sample Size Institute?
P.S. Although I like watching him play in college and it is amazing, is Jimmer Fredette the second coming of Beno Udrih.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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The vintage Kings were all playmakers.
(Except Peja)
I wouldn’t have any problem if 4 out of 5 starters on the team could average 4-6 assists a night.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
I think Peja was a better passer than Bibby was.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Did I say something that was confusing?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
No, I guess I forgot you like Peja that much more than Bibby for a second there
It makes sense now.
No.
It makes sense because Peja was a better passer.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Maybe
But Bibby was definitely a better defender than Christie.
by Charlieb on Feb 8, 2011 8:59 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Indeed.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
And B-Jax stole the 6th man award from Pollard.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 8, 2011 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
No, he stole it from me.
"Where hope goes to die"
You can't argue with a guy's opinion.
He didn’t say “Peja WAS a better passer than Bibby”.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 7, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
That's your opinion, SPTSJ
Can you back it up with advanced stats?
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
by RikSmits on Feb 7, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess.
But we mostly argue about solid accusations. But when it comes to opinions, we try to convince and persuade, not argue.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Feb 7, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
mildly comical back and forth
I am often wrong, but never in doubt.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Peja at least knew how to move without the ball to get the backdoor cuts
hey dipitydoo
"these arent writers, they’re fans. you want grammatic aestheticism? read the times." Rambler 80 in response to my request for use of spell check and grammar at Turf Show Times when writing an article, fanpost or fanshot.
The SSSI....
….says that a traditional PG will be the only way to make fellow denizens happy. The SSSI may or may not be flawed and may or may not be too traditional for it’s own good.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Way to go out on a limb there, Pookey. ;-p
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 7, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah I'm good like that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Rec'd for the thought process
One of the casualties of the “extra pass” is that it costs your point guard assists. This is why a guy like Tony Parker has never averaged 7 assists in a season. He is a drive and kick guy, but otherwise he plays on a team that is selfless and shares the ball. This is how a guy like Parker averages 29% of San Antonio’s assisted baskets this year, while Steve Nash averages 48% for Phoenix (interesting to note that both teams average 23 assits per game, though the Spurs average 1.1 fewer turnovers). In other words, you can be successful without an assist machine at the point.
So, it would be possible to succeed with a backcourt that lacks an assist-heavy point guard. However, it would call for extra ball movement and selflessness. Basically, it means that Tyreke doesn’t need to become a more gifted assist-driven passer. It means that he has to become a more willing give-the-ball-up-and-don’t-dribble-it-into-the-ground-passer. If he can just learn to initiate movement on a consistent basis, it could provide a quantum leap forward for the Kings offense.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 7, 2011 11:21 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
Excellent point section
initiating the offense doesn’t have to mean passing it to the player who is going to shoot, it also means getting the ball out of your hands to the next player in the set or to a player who has better passing angles than you. The day we consistently see Reke initiate the offense is the day he finally started to trust his team mates and the day he he finally understands that it’s a team game.
"It ain't Chinese algebra" - Tony Allen from Basketbawful
Another question is who will dribble
the ball up the floor and initiate the offense with more than 14 seconds left on the clock?
A lot of ifs to make this work, where a good pure playmaker would likely cure some ills straight away.
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
Well,
Evans is physically capable of both. Whether he realizes said capability is another matter.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
There is no reason Reke can't dribble the ball up the floor
but the point I was trying to make is that instead of dribbling the ball up to the top of the key and just dribble the ball before finally passing in the last seconds of the possession or taking a last second contested jumper he could initiate by just passing earlier in the possession and getting the play going.
Of course, it is always the possibility that he never gets the point. On the other hand the Kings could always get a more traditional pg who is a better at the position than Reke. That would be my preference because I think that even with more experience that Reke is always going to look for his own shot first.
"It ain't Chinese algebra" - Tony Allen from Basketbawful
by Bluejohn on Feb 7, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
While only 21, ’Reke’s play has certainly raised the question as to whether or not he is capable of consistently giving the ball up early in the play clock. And I think that is the key with him. Not whether or not he can become a thread the needle passer, but whether he can become a guy that trusts his teammates enough to do the right thing with the ball when it is not in his hands.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree
But how hard is it to cross midcourt with a little more speed and make that first pass?
It has nothing to do with difficulty, a lack of ability, experience or teamplay. The guy just doesn’t do it. It’s things like that which make me wonder whether he has the right midset and/or basketball IQ to become a great player instead of merely a very good player.
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
It's a legitimate question
But after only 114 games and being only 21 years of age, it’s probably a little too soon to answer the question with 100% certainty. Not too soon to ask it, mind you, but probably too soon to answer it.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Fair enough
but I hope he’ll put my fears to rest by the end of next season.
Dunking Dutchman - betting that Omri will have at least 12 games with 85% TS% this season.
I'm hoping for sooner than that
I’m really hoping that the last 35 games of this season really sheds some light on what type of backcourt mate should be playing alongside Tyreke. Right now, one could make equally salient arguments for D.J. Augustin or Aaron Afflalo, and those are two very different players. I would really like for the Kings to know their backcourt direction as they head into an off season with mega cap room. Wishful thinking, for sure.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
it's not in the blueprint...yet
Let’s take a look at Tyreke Evans recent basketball career:
- Memphis: once Coach Cal places the ball in the hands of Evans as his point guard/offense initiator the Tigers went on a tear and won game after game. That is called positive reinforcement. (We could back further to when Tyrke was in high school when there is no doubt the ball was in his hands most all the time as he has been a physical speicmen since a young age, like many NBA players, the best player in the area and counted on to do everything – rebound, score, and win).
- Rookie Season: After his impressive "man among boys’ workout the Kings draft Evans as the PG of the future. In short order Garcia is out and then 5 games in Kevin Martin breaks his wrist. That leaves the Kings in desperate need of a scorer. Evans meets the challenge, shouldering the scoring load (was it 6 or 7 straight 20 point games in a row?) and then 20-5-5 becomes the over-riding agenda. He is given the reigns and rides that horse to the RoY. More positive reinforcement.
Now, he is being asked to change by us fans, as I don’t think Westphal sees the same problem that we are discussing here.Change will come but it will have to evolve it won’t happen tomorrow.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
mild tweak if I may?
Right now, one could make equally salient arguments for D.J. Augustin or Aaron Afflalo
How about Augustin/Hill/Afflalo? Kind of covers the whole guard spectrum with the caveat they can hit the 3 no?
I am often wrong, but never in doubt.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2011 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well,
I was just offering Augustin and Afflalo as to ends of the spectrum, given that they have both been the topic of conversation around here. Hill and a lot of other guys could be added to the list, which is the point. Some think that Calderon would be the right call, others say Brooks, others say Mayo. These three guys have few similarities as players, but they are all considered around here due to the varied viewpoints of exactly what type of player Evans will become.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I was going for the
point guard who can shot/combo guard who can shoot/shooting guard that can shoot combo is all. Given it seems that the only thing everyone really know they want is someone who can shoot.
I am often wrong, but never in doubt.
we desperarely need a pg, that is by far our most pressing need, Beno is a nice 3rd guard. We need a guard who can get in the paint and cause hell. Tyreke has no midrange game, so its basically go to the basket full force or nothing. I like whenTyreke plays off the ball. Aaron Brooks is on the outs in houston they say, he just got suspended. Landry for Brooks anyone??
Good post
I personally think either way could be successful. As section said above, you don’t NEED an assist machine at the point. I think what do need is a good shooter. That’s what Beno is. However, he’s not particularly skilled at driving or playing defense.
What we really need is Beno with driving and defense skills. I think our point guard HAS to be able to shoot. But no one would be complaining if we ended up with a CP3-esque player at the point either.
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
Mike Bibby's point guard skills really get a bad rap here
He average over 8 assists per game and did an admirable job running the offense in Memphis before he came to the Kings. He became more of a finisher instead of a traditional point guard in Sacramento, but it had nothing to do with his skills (or lack thereof) running the point – he just made the necessary adjustment to play in an offense with two of the best passing big men of their generation.
Agreed
He really transformed his game when he came here. I was impressed that Petrie saw Bibby’s potential for excelling in the Princeton, since he had up to that time been more of a prototypical PG.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I could be wrong but I seem to recall that Bibby ran the pick and roll a ton in Memphis
which would explain the high assist numbers dropping off so much when he was here. Either way, he was a solid guy to run the offense through.
I am often wrong, but never in doubt.
(Collison going from the Hornets to Pacers would be kind of the poor man's version)
I am often wrong, but never in doubt.
The need for high post then
I agree, I think DMC would be perfect for a high post type of player. But how much of that does Westphal run? Imagine Adelman’s system with DMC in it, that might be a ton of fun to watch. Maybe Westphal will develop more of that if he’s back next year. I don’t see the team changing it’s offense mid season now. But seeing DMC’s passing abilities might change Westphal’s “system” hopefully. They do have Petrie and “Coachie” there to help if he needs it, eh?
They do run a ton of high post stuff
Really more then most teams do. The issue is that we don’t have good shooters so it’s difficult to run a ton of actions. I think we run just enough high post plays for me and I would be more interested in continuing to run PnRs. We ran quite a few last night but didn’t run many of them very well.
by jstnblke41 on Feb 8, 2011 7:20 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
They are starting to run a little more
But I don’t see a lot of high post yet. Not like the way Adleman ran it for sure. Part of that is DMC is the only big on the team that can run it. Maybe Landry, but he’s more a shooter than a passer. I don’t want Thompson, Dalembert, or Landry passing the ball in the high post. When it worked in the early part of this decade we had both Webber and Divac. If we tried to replicate it we would need another solid passer in the post too I think. If only we had Darko who is the next Divac we would be set, hahahaha
KAHN!!!
Thompson isn't that bad of a passer and he can hit set shots on the elbow
I think him and Cuz can tag team it.
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
by Ice_9ine on Feb 9, 2011 5:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry Ice, I have to disagree
Thompson’s passes from the high post into the paint are horrible. If they’re not being picked off, they usually bounce right at the receivers feet or over his head. Occasionally, if the man is wide open it might get thru, but if it anything it gets thru because the receiver makes a great recovery. The only one who’s worse than JT is Carl.
But, the last thing we need is to have our best rebounder in the high post doing the job that the guards are supposed to be doing. I want Cousins in the paint receiving the pass or at least going for the offensive rebound. The best way to use Cousins passing ability is when he’s a threat to score, and is double teamed. And, that’s not going to happen in the high post. Maybe below the elbow down to the baseline, where he’s more dangerous.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

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