Kansas City masterpiece: Does it offer a model for Sacramento's arena?
In a Special to the Bee, a Kansas City columnist and "recovering naysayer" describes how the Sprint Center overcame the hurdles of a public-private partnership to be built, and how it has delivered on the promises of the "believers".
about 1 year ago
AnotherStupidSN
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Great article
Just read this in the print copy. It’s a terrific case study in what a SEC can do for a community. Should be required reading for anyone looking to comment on the impact of a new arena.
I just renamed my kids Burkle, Burkle, Burkle and Ron.
Great piece.
Thanks for linking it ASSN.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I can see a lot of similarities taking place in Sac
like if Anahiem tries to interfere that would Galvanize the public. Comcast could get involved. Burkle could help broker the deal, etc.
Thanks for posting the best case scenario. It helps to be able to point naysayers to successful examples.
BREAKING: George Maloof has confirmed to The Bee's Tony Bizjak the Kings are staying. #HereWeStay
by sac_faithful on May 22, 2011 12:45 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Why not?
Is it because of AEG managing and taking the profits? I think a situation where a big company takes the profits in exchange for taking all the risk is a great idea. And I can’t imagine that KC has significantly more car rentals than Sac.
The thing I like about this story is that several different partners came together to make it happen. It was a bunch of singles, not a home run. Going for the home run is risky. But if you could combine Comcast, a deep pockets investor like AEG, redevelopment funds, a long term Kings lease, and hotel and rental car taxes, I think you could put something really nice together. I also like the money coming back to the city of profits go over a certain percentage. What’s not to like?
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
by SavageBeast on May 22, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t like how the revenues are divided up, particularly given the fact they built it without a primary tenant because the incentives for AEG and the city go get a pro team there are piss poor. I also don’t like how much the city’s general fund it exposed. It’s like buying a car at the risk of losing your house.
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
ug on the first point
it’s not just because of poor incentives but also ties into the second point about exposure to the general fund
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest though, conceptionally it does not seem to be a bad plan. I have definitely seen worse.
But yeah I was being quite literal with it though.
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Why don't we just steal the Sprint Center?
That would really torque Chad Ford’s rigging.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 22, 2011 1:45 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
There would be something poetic about stealing Kansas City's team, and then stealing their arena 26 years later to keep the team.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 22, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hey why not
bring the Chiefs and their Bar-B-Q sauce while you’re at it.
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
by SavageBeast on May 22, 2011 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The better question is
What wouldn’t he do?
by robbrail on May 22, 2011 6:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We need someone to run the Arena
Gavin has stated that they prefer to be tenants in the new ESC, I suspect we use their
Lease in Anaheim as a guidline of course factoring in revenue differences like TV.
Suppose Burkle lays out 200 million to build against a 30 year 10 million a year lease with first option to buy if the Maloofs ever sell. He would be getting about a 3% return on his money (guaranteed) plus whatever profits for owning most of the Arena. Toss is a 58 million dollar land donation by the city, a 50 million dollar contribution by AEG to run the Arena and get a large portion of its profits and 50 million of the Fed Rail funds to reduce cost by creating infrastructure for both at the same time and you have 350 million without taxes.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
by ElRonToro on May 22, 2011 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That would be great, if Burkle felt like being a hero
Or Maloofs are broker than we think and Burkle will be waiting in the wings. One thing, wouldnt he be getting a 33 percent return on his money? Granted it would take 30 years.
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 22, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he would get about a 33% return.
But since that comes over 30 years, it would be about 1% per year. Not a great return, unless there was something more. Maybe het is the one who gets all the profits like AEG is doing in KC?
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
If we used simple interest
10 million a year on 200 mil is 5%. I tried to calculate complex interest and it came out 3 something.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Right
But that’s not taking into account the principal. You’d get 5% a year, but at the end of the 30 years, your $200m would be gone. If you wanted to earn 3% a year, that would be $6m. The left over $4m could go toward princial, but would only cover $120. It would be like say a bank would pay you 5% interest on your money. But they’d keep everything you put in.
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
'Cept that he would have a 200 million dollar asset (the bank) in your scenario
at the end of 30 years, and would have pocketed 100 mil in the meantime. Plus he would probably be getting a decent % of ESC profits also.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
So are you saying
He would still own a $200m percentage of the arena? Because that would work. Assuming the arena still had value in 30 years.
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
Yea...whatever it would be worth in 30 years
I apologize that I haven’t been able to clearly state my points tonight. Tomorrow I am going to the store and buying a few pounds of brain cells
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
You're old. What makes you think that you're going to get an improved mental state? :P
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
When you're down to 2 brain cells
you either have to get more….or become a Republican.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
by ElRonToro on May 22, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't leave out Democrats.
It’s not like they are high minded geniuses.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They have 3 brain cells
because they are odd
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
I hope you were the office clown at your job.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Started as a jokecracker 1
promoted to a jc2 and finally ended up a freaking idiot.
Years of dedication and lots of idiots giving me a great example to strive for allowed me to achieve my dreams.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
by ElRonToro on May 22, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Glad to see you moved up in life. :)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm no expert by any means but
a $200 million investment with a yearly payment of $10 million for 30 years sure looks like a 2.84% interest rate per period of the investment.
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes with complex interest
simple interest is 10/200
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
but why would you do simple interest for a 30 year investment?
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Not doing it...just throwing the number out there
thought if I gave both it would save confusion. I whiffed on that one.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
If only there was a thing called 2.8% municipal bonds
would be able to cut out the middle man
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
that is, in theory
and as sims alludes to, based on a premise not really based on the reality of the situation.
One can dream I suppose.
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be a horrible negative return
Considering inflation will eat that up
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup (Nov. 18, 2010 Sac Bee)
The 10 mill a year he's getting could be reinvested
and he would probably have more than 200 mil because of it at the end of 30 years. Plus he still owns an ESC worth whatever in 30 years, plus he shared in the profits during the 30 years. I don’t know if thats a great investment, but its not bad.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Why go through step #1 when you could do step #2 first.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup (Nov. 18, 2010 Sac Bee)
I love that the smart people are doing all the long division financial calculus
And we dummies have to point out that it’s all based on the premise that Burkle is interested in constructing a building even if he has no ownership stake, and to the best of my knowledge, there is zero evidence of that scenario up to this point.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on May 22, 2011 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
lol, pretty frickin much
ElRon was all like “Oh yeah fancy math” while kwill was all like “oh yeah well technically” while wallywagon was like “Oh actually its off by a tenth of a percent” …
Meanwhile, Sims
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I guess
consider it all practice for when the ICON plan come out
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
In my defense
this isn’t the first time things haven’t added up in the Arena saga we have all endured.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
I don't think it was an attack.
I think it was a statement of facts in a funny way. For irony to exist, there must be some truth in it.
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup (Nov. 18, 2010 Sac Bee)
I'm checking out and trying again tomorrow
I must be typing in a different language today.
Btw…have we won yet?
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Yes
140 – 99
"I think this can be a good line-up for us and we’ll see how it works." - PW on replacing Casspi and Beno with JT and Head in the starting lineup (Nov. 18, 2010 Sac Bee)
by kwill on May 22, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks...I needed that
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Definitely not meant as an attack.
I was just trying to absorb all of the math, and then it occurred to me that I should probably save what little brain space I have left to try and absorb the real-world scenario when it’s presented. Believe me, were I comfortable throwing around numbers and financial schemes, I’d be doing so.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
I saw no attack
and sorry for my calculations, it seems I was only using optimus prime numbers today.
btw when you send somebody a birthday note, is it called a Sims card?
(these jokes kill in the old folks home, either that or a lot of them just keel over)
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
by ElRonToro on May 22, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll tell you one thing
Burkle would have to be a hell of a lot nicer than AEG with the Sprint Center. On the money they lent they required a 16% profit.
by wallywagon11 on May 22, 2011 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
My favorite part of this article
As it turned out, the Sprint Center has hit the target every year. AEG has paid Kansas City a total of $4.3 million since 2007.
Yet it completely ignores the fact since 2007 the hotel tax, car rental tax, and usage taxes haven’t been enough to pay the debts on building the darn arena. But don’t let facts get in the way Barbara.
Yes!
Furthermore, if there is public support for new hotel and car rental taxes, that money should go to the community-at-large in the form of police and fire protection, school upkeep, park upkeep, etc, things that benefit the entire community.
Financing a venue for a private company should be done entirely privately. That is what capitalism is about. if you want to socialize the costs of production of the new arena, then you must also weigh the opportunity cost – what other social benefits could such spending be put towards (safety, education, etc), and compare this benefit with that of having an arena. In Sacramento’s current predicament, there is no contest – the arena issue pales in comparison to other problems the city faces.
Just letting you know
I wasn’t saying what you are saying
by wallywagon11 on May 23, 2011 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Smokescreen!
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 23, 2011 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Cool, you wanna take all government subsidies from every project that gets government help in some way, and see how much gets built.
Good luck with that. You know, there are countries that have minimal government interference in the economy; they’re called former-soviet shitholes. I really don’t want to turn this into a political battle, but I think your idea of how capitalism works in this country is extremely incomplete.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 23, 2011 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry for the tone, I just think that whole "Government involvement=Socialism" thing gets thrown around way too freely.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 23, 2011 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I hear Former Soviet Shithole is beautiful this time of year.
by ivan209 on May 23, 2011 7:35 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, I hear the balkan countries at least are extremely beautiful.
Wouldn’t want to live there, however, no matter how low the corporate taxes are.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 23, 2011 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait a minute.
You’re arguing that education in Sacramento will take a hit if they stop spending money on it? Have you attended any of those schools as a student in the last 30 years? Because as someone who did, I can honestly say the students would be better off participating in anarchy than attending a SCUSD school.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
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