Railyard Cleanup Likely Not A Big Hurdle For Downtown Arena
Interesting article as it relates to to environmental issues of the site where the arena will be built.
"The city has already conducted an environmental impact analysis regarding future development at the site. But if an arena project does advance, the city/developers may have to prepare another extensive environmental review of the facility itself–a process that could add some delays or challenges to putting the development on a fast-track."
about 1 year ago
drew7
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On grant's show
A contractor called in claiming he got the bid to do work in the railyards. He claims a lot of the preconstruction stuff is already done & if an arena plan is done it wouldn’t take that long to break ground. It was pretty interesting & positive. He was a caller not a guest but he seemed to know what he was talking about
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on May 5, 2011 7:28 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yea, ive heard very similar.
Especially with regards to the preconstruction and infrastructure down there. Most of it is completed, and whats not is paid for already and could absolutely double to support an arena.
Makes sense why that’s the Mayor’s number one target. Faster to complete and cheaper to build
Preconstruction
Cleared the land and replaced all the soil so can construct and build up. Typically a lot of time and money is lost in the tear down, clean up and soil replacement prep so they already way ahead of schedule … even better this stuff doesn’t go on the arena’s price tag.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
And I'm sure the new clean soil added has already been compacted
and geologically tested.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on May 5, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think you'l deal with less hurdles and opposition if the arena stays on the current Natomas land....
Between Freeway access making the commute to ARCO more accessible to surrounding comminuties(in order to promote REGIONAL support for the arena), the lesser cost and quicker it would likely go up. I think the Natomas is the practical, not sexy site to place a new arena.
Strongly disagree, road to nowhere
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And me
with the bonus that vacating Natomas would allow the Maloofs to sell that land and at least partially pay off that loan they inherited.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on May 5, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the funding plan
The Maloofs ‘give’ the City the land, there is cash exchanged but the bonds remain in place which the City takes over paying on.
That would be sneaky.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on May 5, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a mile or two down the same freeway
The only additional construction for the railyard would be a freeway ramp which is going to be built sometime anyways.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
The freeway arguement always cracks me up
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
When ARCO first went in, your choices were Northgate Blvd. or Del Paso Road.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
not only that section
but what are less people going to get season tickets because the stadium is in Sac and a few exits further down the freeway and a train/light rail hub there? Are there going to be less people walking up to buy tickets? Yolo county is just over the river with plenty of new development that would love to see a bump up in value for tax purposes.
And I am sorry but the city and county here in Sac are not looking to dump a ton of cash into this project to maintain the status quo but to revitalize development. Given this isn’t a simple slam dunk they need to be convinced they are maximizing the money they are putting in and would only put in much much less if it’s in Natomas. Furthermore, believe it or not but the city wants that extra traffic downtown. They don’t mind the traffic snarl up so much, games are after all the state and city builidings close and they want people coming in a little early or hanging around a little later to deal with the traffic because (shocker I know) they want you to spend your money downtown at restaurants and shops in the area. That’s kind of the point. So which is more likely: less season ticket holders and walk ups because of the “freeway” or just the same or more because it’s in Sac with a lot of people trying to avoid the traffic by spending more in Sacramento?
And I haven’t even brought up the federal money or the fact that you are more likely to attract a third party with deep pockets. Your only option in Natomas is PSLs and ticket surcharges at rates the Maloofs would never buy into PLUS having to beg for a chunk of money the city will never give you. That is unless Bill Gates walks through the door and hates making more money.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
We're talking the difference between a 4th and long hailmary and driving a car over a cliff
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
For all those reasons
for a long time that the railyards is a much better ‘investment’ for the City. Billions, and I do mean billions of investment dollars will flow into the railyards faster because of that Arena anchor there.
It’s one of the reasons why I think Inland needs to kick something in – like a parking garage perhaps.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on May 5, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Just an FYI
you saw the letter Inland sent ICON way back around December right?
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
by wallywagon11 on May 5, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't the letter just say that Inland won't be involved in the feasibility study in any way because they're focused on other things?
I don’t remember it saying that they won’t be partners in the project once the study is completed.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 5, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
that doesn't mean a lick in regards to infrastructure but my guess is the city and ICON would have to find a way to make that work.
I linked the letter in the comments a day or two ago, if you search “Mr. Romani” I bet it would be easy to find.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
They could, I would think, be involved indirectly in financing the arena
if the feasibility study suggests the possibility of maybe having part of the development area around the arena being a “special tax zone” where the tax money from that development goes into paying for the arena (like they were going to do with the Cal Expo land in the Convergence plan), or some other way of having the railyard development involved.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 5, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, that's why I said "indirectly".
The development would be financing it, but it wouldn’t be Inland’s money. It would be the tax money that they’d be paying anyways going into a special pot instead of the general fund.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 5, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, agreed
I was talking with someone yesterday that the reason that public transit is rarely used around here is because there is no destination point. Think about it. I don’t take BART because it’s cool – I take it because it is a convenient alternative for getting to Giants and A’s games. And for Giants games it’s not a snap – a change of trains and a connection to the Muni is required. But you do it because the ends justifies the means.
If light rail ran out to Roseville and the entertainment venue was built downtown, I would take rail in a heartbeat. Avoid the parking cost, avoid the traffic – now you’re talking!
Build the damn thing – the infrastructure will follow shortly thereafter.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Only people I know who use the light rail
are Sac State students who work or intern for the state and have a complicated schedule where they have to go back and forth or just state workers. That’s it.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Light Rail in Sacramento is so pointless.
A big part of that is where it goes. I’ve ridden it a lot in my life because I used to ride it from my parents houses (my mom lived in MIdtown and my Dad lived in Rosemont) and going to school (went to Sac, Johnson on it mostly) when I was a kid. When I worked at Raley’s, I used it all the time too. That was because both stores I worked at (most of the time) were somewhat near the light rail line or on it.
But I also have looked for jobs and spent time on that light rail. Sacramento public transit is very pointless and complicated for reasons I’ll never understood. It’s like the residents think that investment is an implicit criticism on their preferred lifestyle.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
never understand^
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Well actually I'm lying.
The reasons the public transit doesn’t work in Sacramento is there isn’t a city core to build around. Without a city core, public transit becomes pointless because it has to take you somewhere worth spending your time riding it. Sacramento public transit for most people ends up becoming pointless in the final analysis. Even at 4$ a gallon although that will change again as people can’t afford to drive around at those prices.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree
No point on getting on the train if it ain’t taking you anywhere.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
They're building a tram system at Sac State that will take people from the 65th St. lightrail station to campus
That right there could bump the ridership up quite a bit. When I lived in Land Park and worked at Sac State, I thought about trying to take lightrail to work, but it’s just too far from the 65th St. station to campus (especially the North end of campus where I worked) in order to make sense for me. But, yeah, I lived in Sac the first 28 years of my life (in various neighborhoods) and only ever rode lightrail a couple of times, and RT buses not very much more than that.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 5, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I can see Sac St bumping up readership for the reasons you mention.
Sacramento is so badly in need of infastructure all over the city. Nobody in Sacramento wants to invest in it, and will get pissed when somebody comes in and does it for them. Then, when that happens, those people will reap the profits, and the long term Sacramentans will be holding their thumb up their butt as they always do. You only get something out of something if you put something into it. Apparently that credo is Sacramento proof.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 5, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
there would definitely be a bump
largely because Sac State students ride for free
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
It's not free we pay for it whether we use it or not
it’s part of our tuition, but I understand what you are saying
If the Kings leave, We all lose
by prowseinthehouse on May 6, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
True
Its a long walk from the light rail station to the north end of the campus. The buses at the light rail station will drop you off at the north end but you could be waiting around 20-25 minutes which is the amount of time it would take to walk.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
True.
In Portland it goes almost everywhere, arena, down city streets, airport. When I rode light rail in Sac its because im going out of my way to use public transit, in Portland it was because of convienence. It needs to go up and down Watt and Surise
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Down Watt yes. Down Sunrise no. Unless you're trying to keep property values out in Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Rancho Cordova high that is.
You’re right about Portlands transit though. But Portland is also, despite how small it’s population, is much more urbanized because of the landscape and growth limits.
Sacramento could help itself in so many ways if it was proactive, but nobody wants to do the hard things there. Unfortunately.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Portland metro is almost identical to Sac
But its much more urban. While east Sac and midtown are nice, thats how like 60 percent of Portland is. When I moved back in December I stayed in CH for a bit, and Sunrise would be good for light rail down to 50 i think, going up and down Watt and Sunrise is only way to get people on it I think, as I know im not gonna drive 20 minutes to get out my car and on a train. But if i can just go up the street and get on it……
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You would if you didn't want to pay high gas prices.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yea
I love taking light rail, and am saying the more accessable it is, the better. If I have to take the 20 minutes it takes to get from Whitney to Folsom on Watt, im more likely to just finish the next ten minutes downtown in my car, same if im going from greenback to folsom on sunrise. Also I think having it being so far from most peoples housing, people either forget about it or just dont know about it. In Portland I lived in west hills, would walk out my door to the bus stop, drive 4 minutes to light rail, then they city was at my hands.
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
At that point you should be going North towards the station up there.
Whitney is too far north up Watt to go to Folsom. Bet ya that’s how RT would respond too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Very true
The Watt 80 stop sliped my mind. Hey I was gone awhile. Good memory Seattle
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been there many times. Plus I drove a cab there for 2 years.
Kinda hard to forget some things.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Driving a cab in Sc musta been very....interesting
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 6, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I live very close to the Watt 80 stop.
Its a 10 min bike ride + 45 on Rt to get to mid town. But check it. I can ride my bike up Whitney or eastern take the river trail and get to the Amtrak in an hour. So what is the point of taking RT when it stops so much. We need more express lines. But that is the Nyc rubbing off on me.
That's my biggest problem. Everything is too complicated and slow for little reason.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The sad thing is that it used commuter electric lines did run out to the suburbs from midtown duirng the 40's
But the car won and most of those lines have been pulled. The only reason RT goes to Watt, is the abandoned Freeway through Carmichael project.
By the way Pookey
A day or two ago you were asking why West Sac and Yolo county in particular care all that much about whether the railyards was where they were planning on building the arena and I mentioned how they were right across the river and how it would help development and increase property tax values …
Anyway just realized you might have been scratching your head a bit because I sort of neglected to mention that part of masterplan in regards the railyards development plan was to build a pedestrian bridge between the railyards and West Sac. Granted the plan is to do it over by Richards Blvd so unless La Quinta Inn and Motel 6 are gone are somehow much nicer not sure how it all works but we’ll see I suppose.
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Well....
…I just don’t see how they are all that that much into the center of it. Much of that waterfront is developed (in some way anyway) and unless it undergoes major redevelopment, which I doubt, from about the Biz 80 bridge to say where Richards is, I doubt much changes that way. Not saying it can’t happen, but I don’t really see how a pedestrian bridge would change it much from Richards right now. There is nothing connecting that stretch of Richards to anything. And, not only that, it’s a rather long walk from even the railyards. Not sure people will do that willingly unless they are just walking along the bike trail that runs through Old Sac.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
...parking cost, traffic, and $4.00+/gallon gas
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on May 5, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Hve fun trying to get Roseville to pitch in for RT.
by carlsbadace on May 6, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
it’s like the small town version of the Metro in Washington D.C. extending out to Georgetown
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
Not only that wally
But downtown deals with (or did before recession) 200,000 commuters a day. The majority of events occur at night or on weekends when nobody is downtown or traffic is going other way. 20,000 people is a piece of cake
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Well of course
The trifecta pays the big money
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on May 5, 2011 10:32 PM PDT reply actions
I don't get the parking issues either.
Parking 5-10 blocks away is super simple, free and good excerise for our blubery city.
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