According to sources, [the Kings] don't perceive Donte' Greene or Omri Casspi as the long-term solution at small forward and see [Kawhi] Leonard as the sort of versatile talent that could eventually be just that. But here's the tricky part: They've gone to great lengths to scout [Jan] Vesely, just as they have Leonard, and would have a tough choice in this scenario.
12 months ago
sroufe
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Comments
Please, please, please
Draft Fredette if he is the best player, and not because he will sell tickets.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I know what you mean
But selling tickets is also what makes the Kings more viable and more able to stay.
/ Wondering if I should change my signature
Selling tix or new arena?
I think if we sell out every game next year, but still have no arena plan, the Kings would still leave. So, I don’t think selling tix in the short-term is nearly as important as putting a team out there that can win games.
But, if we had Fredette, could you imagine the “Co-Exist” ticket packages would be happening every time the Kings bring Jimmer and Cassipi to town??
Agree. One thing sells tickets: Winning
Adam Morrison and Sean May did bupkis for the Bobcats, despite having local ties and being popular college players.
Maybe Jimmer sells a few more tickets in games 1-10, but if Leonard helps the Kings win more games, that will put a lot more money in the Maloof’s pockets now and in the future.
This
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Double this.
We can sell tickets and grow fan-base through being a good team too.
Agreed, however, I don't necessarily believe Leonard helps the Kings win more games
than Jimmer does. And that is the root of my problem with Leonard. He’s just an atrocious fit for a SF for our roster. And this draft will have winners and losers based almost entirely on where a player gets selected and how they FIT the roster and system they go to, hence the Jimmer Love by so many here. Near Flawless fit.
I personally agree with you and am not a fan of Leonard
But I just want us to draft Jimmer because Petrie believe he is the best fit for our team. Not for some foolish marketing purpose.
Sidetrack:
If a Vampire bit a Werewolf, would Vampire Werewolves roam the earth, killing all the kids from Twilight? Please?
This.
I have faith the Maloofs will defer to Petrie and we'll get BPA.
Because two years ago this:
Maybe Jimmer sells a few more tickets in games 1-10, but if Leonard helps the Kings win more games, that will put a lot more money in the Maloof’s pockets now and in the future.
read like this:
Maybe Rubio sells a few more tickets in games 1-10, but if Evans helps the Kings win more games, that will put a lot more money in the Maloof’s pockets now and in the future.
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Agreed
You know what also sells tickets? Winning games.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Truckasaurus
I’m sorry mistyped
TRUCKASAURUS!!!!!!!!
by wallywagon11 on Jun 14, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
SUNDAYSUNDAYSUNDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
by fffindeed on Jun 14, 2011 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
If Leonard, Vesely, and Fredette are our only options, who do you choose?
Jimmer, Jan, trade pick for bag of chips, Leonard
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 14, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm really fighting back and forth between this marketing angle
but just can’t seem to shake that it is (and maybe should be) a factor. Absolutely not the only reason you draft him, more of a tie breaker, but I would be ok if it’s taken into account.
The only reason is obviously our arena situation. I do understand that, like Aykis says, winning will bring more people in the arena, but we end up with the best guy in this whole draft but it doesn’t mean anything unless we continue to carry some crazy momentum in ticket sales that could carry onto the SEC discussion in this region.
I know I’m in the minority (probably very small), but if any type of additional marketing this season will continue to carry the momemtum, then I’d be willing to use this draft pick for that. And that being said, I like Jimmer and think he’d be a good player for us. Just speaking in hypotheticals where he wouldn’t be exactly the best player at 7 but he brings something outside the court others don’t.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I too think marketing matters
and should be part of the equation. As long as it still makes sense for the well being of the roster.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 14, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this
It should be a factor, but hopefully as more of a tie-breaker than anything.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
That's how I see it
and we’re obviously talking hypotethicals here as I don’t see Petrie giving a rat ass about selling tickets. And even if he cared, selling tickets and marketing are factors that could vary depending on the situation, so nothing is a given.
From a selfish standpoint, it doesn’t matter who we draft unless the Kings stay in Sac long term. So really, I don’t care who gets the nod at 7 too much. Gotta think about timing too. SEC plan needs to be ready by March next year and we don’t even know if the season will start on time. Again, crazy hypotheticals, but if any kind of marketing ‘ploy’ keeps momentum going past Nov-Dec-Jan, it could be something worth exploring.
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
I am hearing the financing is doable (sometimes with very in front of it)
Just need to get the committee guys aligned. I only know 3 of them and they are gung ho.
I am hoping that the dominos fall quickly on this, because once approved I think that will really boost attendance.
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Great to hear so early.
Feel free to expand on that any time you get more info
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 14, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
If Petrie drafts someone for marketability
its because the Maloofs have started prying again and I wouldn’t be surprised if Petrie leaves soon after.
HERE WE STAY
THIS IS OUR TEAM
Oh, the NBA folks camped out at Arco might not think it such a bad idea either
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 14, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps GP would be a little more forgiving if the decision was influenced by the league
These are very unique times in Sacramento
HERE WE STAY
THIS IS OUR TEAM
Petrie won't draft for marketing
Otherwise he’d have taken Rubio two years ago. Instead he drafted who he wanted and it ended up being great for marketing anyway since Reke won RoY
"What the fuck did I do?" - McNulty
Except for Jimmer actually impressing the FO
and Rubio not so much
"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims
Unfortunately
For as good of a year Tyreke had, he still didn’t get much airtime. I wonder if it’s because he sucks as an interview or simply because we are Sacramento.
Reading sub titles isn't much fun.
That’s why foreign films and Tyreke aren’t very popular.
El Ron can name that tune in one note.
by kingofpain on Jun 14, 2011 4:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I refuse to believe
they would ever consider drafting a guy with “marketing needs” as a primary factor.
Correct me if I'm wrong but...
Hasn’t Amick correctly picked the past two draft choices before the actual draft?
by CrownedPotential on Jun 14, 2011 11:04 AM PDT reply actions
I believe most people had the Kings taking Evans and Cousins the last two drafts.
Not to knock on Amick who does a fantastic job and was one of the first guys to report how much the Kings liked Evans.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I think he deserves credit for Evans
A lot of people had us picking Evans if Rubio was off the board. IIRC, Sam had us picking Evans regardless of whether Rubio was available.
Cousins on the other hand, 95% of people had us picking if he was still on the board.
I don't think WAS
takes Valanciunas over both Leonard and Vesely unless they are set on dealing McGee. I think if Valanciunas is passed on by CLE at 4, then he’s very likely available to the Kings at 7. Whether the Kings are higher on Valanciunas than the other Euros (e.g. Vesely, Biyombo) is anyone’s guess…
With less than ten days until the draft, even Amick is having a really difficult time determining which direction the Kings are going to go. It could be Knight if he falls, Walker, Valanciunas, Leonard, Vesely, Fredette or Burks. A true crapshoot.
Limiting the pick to one of 7 guys sounds like something I would write
Sam is having a hard time on this. I say they go Vesely, if they are worried about sammy, or Fred Jimmerette
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
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I don't see Leonard as the guy
He only shoots 30% from 3, and I can’t help but think the Kings want more from the 3 spot.
/ Wondering if I should change my signature
FWIW
Leonard improved his 3PT% nearly 10% from his first year at SDSU to his second. His perimeter shooting has reportedly impressed people during workouts. The kid doesn’t turn 20 until later this month and still has a lot of time to develop. I think it’s this argument, that the Kings don’t really want to wait for another teenager, that provides the strongest reasoning for why SAC won’t take Leonard over Walker/Fredette or even perhaps Vesely.
Yep
I heard JR on Grant’s show a few days ago. JR and Grant were both concerned about “raising” another young player in the league. I believe as you said. The Kings want someone that can help now, and not someone they have to wait to develop.
/ Wondering if I should change my signature
I also believe what Kawhi brings to the table is much more attainable in FA. A shooter like Fredette, on the other hand, everyone needs shooters. Even guys like Korver and Reddick, who are strictly shooters, and I am not comparing them to Fredette, have a lot of value in this league. The only reason I would draft Kawhi is if I truly believed he could be an elite defender in the league (not convinced). At this point, I still think Donte has more upside as an all around player and a better fit on the roster long term. Jimmmmmmmmmmmmer
Agreed..!
And besides if Leanord was such a good defender, then why didn’t he lock up the Jimmer when he went crazy and dropped like 45 on them.!!
Just curious - was Leonard responsible for covering Jimmer in those games?
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Who wasn't?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 14, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Shoots in the mid to low 7os on FT
which translates as, he is not a shooter right now.
For proof of non-shooting ability see Casspi/Greene.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
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He isn't any better than Donte/Omri in my opinion.
Would be very upset if he is the pick
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Jun 14, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree
i dont want leonard either
"im not a celtic or a laker... im a king... find me on florin with a mouth full of bling" mac dreeeeeeeeezy
I third the no wanting
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
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Yeah I don't see much of an upgrade
More like another log in the jam.
by DirtyDribblers on Jun 14, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Same
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 14, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn'be be upset, I trust Petrie
and a lot of scouts seem to like Leonard’s physical tools, drive and skill set.
Personally, I am with you though. I can’t find one area he excels at. He’s a good athlete, but not elite. His drives I have seen in games and on film probably won’t work in the NBA. His ball handling is sub-par. He does some decent straight line drives, but doesn’t really seem to have “moves.” He’s not a good shooter. He’s not a good passer.
He is a good rebounder, but that’s already an area of strength for our team. We don’t need a rebounder at SF who is a 8 our of 10. We can survive with a 5 out of 10 considering how strong we are at other positions.
Add one more to the list.
My hope is that GP is trying to raise Kahwi’s value in a smokescreen kind of way.
El Ron can name that tune in one note.
by kingofpain on Jun 14, 2011 4:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What's wrong with selling tickets
Of course I want the best team out there, but I see nothing wrong with getting someone who sells tickets, God knows we need more people at games.
Still I don’t see GP letting Vesely or Leonard slip past us, if they are there.
by rivercitysports on Jun 14, 2011 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
There is nothing wrong with selling tickets
But if you’re doing it at the expense of drafting the best player, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. Stephen Colbert would probably sell a lot of tickets, but I don’t think that he would improve the product on the court.
I’m not saying don’t draft Fredette, and if the drafting of him sells a few more tickets, that’s a nice perk. But I would prefer to draft the best player available and let the ticket sales take care itself through the improved play of the team.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Can't imagine anything in GP's history
which would lead me to believe he would draft a player to sell tickets. This is the kind of thing outside media people play up but that never seems to actually effect the Kings.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
You mean his ceiling is Jimmer and floor is Stockton right?
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Agree
The marketability factor should come into play as a tie breaker. Does anyone see any similarities with drafting Jimmer as drafting Jason Williams in 1998. Jason turned out to be not the best overall player taken at 7. Obviously there was Nowitzki but to a lesser extent Paul Pierce. Was J-Will the better pick for Sac than Pierce? He was a big part of the greatest show on court and was traded for Bibby.
Wait...
what was his 3.0 plan?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 14, 2011 11:37 AM PDT reply actions
FYI
I cut some of the quote in the FanShot. Go read the mock to find out why everyone’s talking about Jimmer in this thread.
Now! This is interesting. I’ve been very curious as to how the team rates the Europeans. Ford had a recent Valanciunas mention, now this on Vesely. Very interesting.
Vesely and Valanciunas are much greater risks than Leonard in my mind
Valanciunas for his buyout issue and Vesely for the fact that yeah he’s athletically gifted, but he can’t shoot, rebound or defend yet.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Vesely, ahhh, where is Joe Alexander when you need him?
I sure hope this guy has more game, but that’s the face I keep seeing on Vesely.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 14, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
The good part about Vesely is he's got great length and is improving as a shooter
He can be great… he’ll just really need to develop a more all-around game.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I've used that comparison for Leonard and Vesley before
but in fairness to both of them, Joe Alexander didn’t achieve a lot in college, exactly earn a rep as a hard worker and wasn’t very bright.
Leonard had a good sophomore season and Vesley just won a championship in a tough Euro league. They are both reported to be hard workers. And I have no idea about their intelligence, but hopefully they are brighter than Joe Alexander.
With that said, I’m not itching to draft either.
The last interview I heard of Donte on grant's show a few weeks ago he seemed really focused
I never doubted Donte’s ability only his focus. Omri is always focused just maybe too focused on being the Israeli Jordan as opposed to the role player we need him to be at this point.
My point is does anyone think a Leaonard or Vessely can beat out a focused Donte or Omri in their 1st or even 2nd year? If not then why bother? I can actually see Jimmer beating out Beno for the starting PG position by mid-season if he turns out to be 1/2 a Steph Curry or Bibby. We need immediate impact guys not more projects. I’d rather go with Singleton if Jimmer is not the guy. Atleast he seems like an immediate impact guy. He’d be our best defender out of the gate.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jun 14, 2011 12:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Jimmer/Kemba wouldn't be trying to beat out Beno
They’d be trying to beat out Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans, the guys who started to end the season last year.
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Ok so what about Leonard/Vessely?
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jun 14, 2011 12:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
tyreke to the three spot
and run three combo guards and two centers(Cousins and Dalembert if hes affordable). It would at least be fun to watch on one end.
huh? wha?
by effin steve on Jun 14, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure I buy that
Let’s think this though. Does anyone really think that Evans is coming off the bench anytime soon? Neither do I. So any point guard be draft would be either backing up Evans or trying to beat at MT. Except that MT isn’t playing PG. He’s the pure shooter. So what you are really looking at, if you draft ANY guard, is sliding Evans to the two (I know, positions don’t matter) and having a guard run the point. But since Evans can’t shoot from deep, you have to have a PG who is a better distributor than Evans and a better shooter than . . . . not MT, but Evans.
If MT were even a very good distributor, we would not be having this discussion. The very fact that GO is looking so hard at PGs tells me that they anticipate at some point moving Evans to the two and bringing in a PG who can shoot and distribute. Walker would be great if you were looking to beat out Evans at the point. But Walker and Evans? Don’t see it.
And honestly I don’t see a two three or four at the 7th spot who starts for us.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Man my editing is terrible!!!
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if any rookie we draft will start for us this year
Unless we luck into Brandon Knight, and even he might not.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
That's my point
When we look at a draft pick are we really looking for a starter or a piece we can use? I think we are pretty clearly broken at SF. And if there was any small forward we could get that might start, I would be all over that. Same with Center. We aren’t broken with dally and Cuz, but if Dally goes, we have a huge hole. So is there a starting center in this draft at #7?
Then we look at our back court. We have Evans, a shooter, and a shooter with a little better handles. If we brought in Knight, I don’t see any way he beats out ‘Reke. Instead Reke beats out MT for the 2 and Knight brings the ball up the floor. The reason I lean toward Fredette is because I think we will trade for or sign as FA a 3. If we lose Dally, we will do the same thing at the center. Jimmer gives us a lights out shooter (better than MT or Beno in my opinion) who may or be not be able to play the point. If he can, we have a new 1. If he can’t we use him like Dallas used Peja as a pure shooter for certain situations. the great thing is that Jimmer does not have to be a starter to be useful. Where as somebody like Leonard has to be better than Casspi, Greene, and Donte or we just end up with a bigger traffic jam.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry meant Casspi greene and Garcia
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Donte
I think Donte has shown you what Donte is, if the Kings can get what they got from him last year he is a solid rotation guy, additionally he seems to be good team player, That can’t be all bad
by Murf on Jun 14, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
versatile, gets 3s, blocks, is a solid glue guy
J.UST E.NJOY T.HIS S.HIT
by big_p.a.w.z. on Jun 14, 2011 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
edit
@itsJONsantiago Jon Santiago via twitter…
After the press conference, Donte said he plans on working out with Christie tomorrow….defensive tutelage. #NBAKings
J.UST E.NJOY T.HIS S.HIT
by big_p.a.w.z. on Jun 14, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno Murf
Donté was pretty terrible last season, by most statistical measures. He played a few nice games down the stretch, but it isn’t the first time that’s happened.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
I agree
and feel that the potential of “upside” players tends to materialize by season three, provided they’re getting good minutes and chances the way Donte has. That’s also why I think this will be such a pivotal year for Casspi. It was a great rookie season, a sophomore slump season, and now a season that will probably be a good indicator of what kind of player he’ll become.
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Amick insight?
Not quoted above is Amick’s rationale why Kings might pass on Walker/Fredette even if available:
“Walker is another possibility, as is Fredette or Colorado guard Alec Burks. But the Kings plan to re-sign pending restricted free-agent guard Marcus Thornton and the backcourt minutes are already at a premium with Beno Udrih (two years remaining on his contract) in the mix.”
Does he have some insight into GP’s thinking that is different than most others (namely that Sac wants/needs a PG)?
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jun 14, 2011 12:06 PM PDT reply actions
So what Amick means is that
the Kings will obviously acquire a 2nd lottery pick to draft one SF along with Jimmer. I’m cool with that.
Bleeding Black and Purple 6710 miles South East of Sacramento.
We don't need multiple kids
now if we aquired another lottery pick as part of using it in a trade I’m all for it.
Every year I have to fight the fact that some of these young guys sound intriguing and I want them on my team – 3-4 years down the road.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 14, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
This - I'm not too excited about getting younger
To paraphrase a line from City Slickers – if we keep trying to get younger, pretty soon we’ll be drafting sperm.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
by otis29 on Jun 14, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know I was being a bit sarcastic. The last thing we need is even more kids.
I’ll just be disappointed if get Leonard instead of Jimmer.
Bleeding Black and Purple 6710 miles South East of Sacramento.
I think he's implying we'll acquire 4 lottery picks
2 for Vesley and Leonard
And 2 more to draft Jimmer, you know, just in case.
The Draft and marketing
I think drafting a guy for marketing purposes is moronic. Winning sells tickets, cynically Caspi was a good draft pick for marketing purposes as he is the first Israeli to play in the NBA but if his arse is on the bench who is going to come and watch him play? I’m not saying Caspi can’t play, but was basing what happened at the end of last year
As far as Jimmer goes, I’d steal a line from Simmons, he has an NBA skill, he can shoot, teams need that, do the Kings need that skill to pick him at 7, I guess we will find out.
I do wonder if Walker is just not big enough to really contribute at his level, I wonder if he will be any thing else than being part of a solid guard rotation type player.
Isn’t Petries MO guys with basketball skill rather than athletic projects, I’d guess that in a poor draft he will pick a guy with the skill set and maturity to help the team, and I think maturity might be a higher need based on the recent drafts of Evans and Cousins. Havin someone who will fit in and be a good soldier, rather than someone else who need “mentoring” from the coaching staff and other players
By all accounts
Both Evans and DeMarcus rocked their workouts with the Kings. Kemba doesn’t appear to have done that, while Jimmer did.
Speaking of that, did I miss when Leonard is scheduled to work out for the Kings?
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Don't Buy It
I really really like reading Sam Amick’s articles but I don’t buy the idea that the Kings have already discounted Greene and Casspi as not being a long-term solution at Small Forward. It’s way too early for this from my perspective. I would like to see Casspi and Greene this season before I agree or disagree with that statement.
And I also agree with the notion that what marketing needs wins more than anything else whether it be named Jimmer, Kawhi, or Vesely.
Also, there are 7 or 8 SF’s in the projected top 15 picks in the 2012 NBA draft so why don’t the Kings just wait to draft a SF.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
agreed
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I completely believe it
Casspi was banished to the end of the bench at the end of the season, and it felt like both parties were ready for the relationship to end. And the team has plenty of evidence of Donté’s maddening inconsistency.
I’d be really surprised if we start the season without an upgrade at the 3 (and not necessarily through the draft).
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
I agree with both of you
I don’t think any 3 in the draft is a clear upgrade. But that FA is another ball of wax. Lots of interesting prospects there.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jun 14, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Derrick Williams
Which I acknowledge would require moving up in the draft to obtain. But is he, or isn’t he an upgrade over Greene or Casspi?
And how do the Kings draft Derrick Williams in a realistic scenario?
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
Agree with Otis. Casspi and Green have proven what they are/or are not.
Casspi may find a career on another team with a more wide open style, but Donte doesn’t get it. Neither is worth keeping.
After two seasons you're so sure?
Not buying that Kool-Aid yet.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I'm pretty sure about Donté
But I’d like to see Casspi back for another season. I’m just not sure the team’s interested in that scenario.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Upgrade at 3
I’m open to an upgrade at 3 in terms of trading for a veteran, but I don’t think the Kings needs to draft a 3 right as of yet.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
How do we interpret the phrase "not a long term solution"?
- They will never become solid starters but we can still keep them as useful rotation players? Or…
- We don’t need them, we’ll ship them as soon as we can?
I hope it’s the first one. Either way we can wait until 2012 for a SF as you said. Plus, the need for Fredette’s popularity is big, it may even play a factor in facilitating the building of the new arena.
Bleeding Black and Purple 6710 miles South East of Sacramento.
Long term solution
They have been on the team for a couple of years, there has been an open contest for the small forward position. Noone has really grabbed it.
Would think adding someone else would help in a number of ways. The new person could be that player, adding another player would make the others increases the competion for the position and makes everyone try harder.
I think we've come to a point where they don't have anything else to show.
They both had a streak of DNP or nearly games and they still didn’t turn it around.
Bleeding Black and Purple 6710 miles South East of Sacramento.
Agreed.
I think they’re still very high on Casspi.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 14, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Casspi is victim of Westphal
Terrible substitution patterns and lack of communication from the coach can hurt a young player’s success… Starting and then not playing at all for weeks isn’t good for Casspi’s game. I see a lot more potential in Casspi than Greene. If they do take Leonard they should move Greene. I’m not a fan of Leonard…The Kings need more offensive skill… players that can move without the ball, shoot consistently and facilitate… they’re good on player who try to get to the rim to score.
I am not sure why this did not get more attention.
Casspi spoke out to the press and his benchings at the end of the year seemed more likely a punishment rather than about his game or how much they liked it.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
The "going in a different direction" doesn't seem like punishment
They want a skill set other than what Omri currently has.
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Victim of Westphal...Nah
Casspi was a very passionate player who just ran out of gas. I think his main problem, besides decision making at times, has been conditioning.
I screwed up. There is no other way to say it... - Ailene Voisin
That was certainly true last year. Not sure about this year.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Omri has confidence issues
when his shot isn’t falling the rest of his game suffers. The skill he is missing is defense. If he wants to play SF in the NBA he needs to be able to stay in front of the SF on the other team.
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I could see that and others have noted his defense
But that said, he was getting a lot of minutes prior to the story coming out. I still think he was punished for it. It is pretty typical of a team to do that and I think players have been benched for a few games when that has happened before.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
its possible
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm... I looked at Omri's numbers and it was interesting
I saw some inconsistent stats, but that had been going on for a little while. Omri would have a really good game with more minutes and then he would be only so so for a couple games. Then come back for a good game…
I did see where Casspi really did well in a couple games only to have his minutes cut the next game. Almost in half. So, I think that the case can be made that he could have felt like his play did not determine his minutes.
The kicker was that as soon as that story came out his minutes were cut and then he was benched shortly after that. I am not sure how many days before the April 6th that the stuff was published in Israel. The SacBee didn’t say, but that story was on April 6th… He played very few minutes April 1st, 6th, and the 13th, going from double to single digit minutes, and then was benched for the rest of the season.
It would be interesting to see some advanced stats on Casspi. His stats seem to be pretty good overall. In looking at the numbers he seemed to score at a much better rate when he played over 20 minutes. Nearly 50% better. He did much worse when playing 20 minutes or less. Much less productive…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Maybe the "direction" comment means "Casspi isn't a starter yet and is terrible coming off the bench"
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Or maybe it was a completely non-committal answer designed to be ambiguous.
They do not announce when a player is being punished. I could easily see that as nothing more than just an ambiguous answer.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
That's what makes being a Kings fan in the off season so great.
We get to speculate on intentionally ambiguous statements and base entire team philosophy on them.
A brief comparison between Mormonism and Historic Christianity
http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine
A former atheist's (me) appeal: Creation Science
http://creation.com/creation-answers
by sac_faithful on Jun 14, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Is there any Leonard workout footage from any team?
and is there footage of the Fredette workout for the Suns yesterday?
Singleton can't get a sniff?
If GP is considering a 3 you’d think he’s bring in a few. I read or heard somewhere if Utah drafts Knight, Devin Harris becomes available which Kings would be interested in.
Unless there is something in deep background about Singleton we don't know
I’ve got to believe GP will bring him in
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
I love Singleton. Taking him at 7 would be high but he is one of a handful of guys in this draft that can help in Year One. After Biyambo, the best defensive player in the draft.
by VirginiaKingsFan on Jun 14, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I WANT WALKER
FUUUCK I HOPE HES ON THE BOARD STILL
"im not a celtic or a laker... im a king... find me on florin with a mouth full of bling" mac dreeeeeeeeezy
So which is the smokescreen?
Is it the PG workouts or that they may take a SF? Wait now they may take another position? It could all be up in the air, but I kind of doubt they don’t have some idea on how to proceed…
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Draft Board
I think they have a draft board with every player ranked from 1 on based mainly on talent and to a limited extent on the position that player projects to be in the NBA….right up until the draft starts the board is in flux as info and input is received.
All the experts keep saying we need a PG or SF…. but did anybody see the Miami newspaper saying Sammy could be their #1 target in free agency… assuming there is a free agancy period?
If he were to leave….. I would have to say PF/C becomes an even bigger area of need than the other 2 spots.
by KingsFanNoMatterWhat on Jun 14, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting, I could definitely see a C being sought if Sammy leaves...
But if I remember the response of others I don’t know how much Miami and others can offer him. I think it may only be the Mid-Level or not much higher and we could probably provide a much better offer. But if he leaves that would be a big hole.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Speaking of which
Any news out of the Whiteside camp giving us clues if he is focusing on basketball and improving his attitude?
I would like to know the answer to that. It would be great to see a series on each player over the summer...
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Whiteside had knee surgery in March
and his recovery was supposed to be 4 to 6 months. I haven’t heard any recent updates on his rehab. I’m also curious about his progress. Personally, I’m still very optimistic about what he can provide.
El Ron can name that tune in one note.
by kingofpain on Jun 14, 2011 4:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Whiteside is at the practice facility working out.
I’ve heard he looks strong (upper body) but is still rehabbing the knee. I would love to tell you that the Kings could count on Whiteside for 12-18 minutes a game next season, add a versatile big to compliment DMC and JT while letting Dalembert go but that is probably not realistic.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
You're awesome jham.
Thanks for the update. We’re lucky to have such an incredible wealth of knowledge.
Curious to know what you make of his attitude, since this is an area of concern among some fans. If you’d rather not address this (since it becomes somewhat subjective), I totally understand.
Appreciate your insight.
El Ron can name that tune in one note.
by kingofpain on Jun 14, 2011 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can also tell you who wrote it
a sing the hell out of that note.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Put that in as a compliment to you not a slam.
I was a bit one-noted. Thanks for calling me out on it.
El Ron can name that tune in one note.
Not taken as a slam
took it as a subtle compliment to my brilliance.
(And my tendency to read 1 word of a comment and then respond)
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
I don't want to get to far into the Whiteside issue.
But I will say this-
What Whiteside does on the court, you can’t teach. Can he improve? Sure, but his natural ability to block shots is a God given gift that includes an incredible body and amazing timing. I honestly believe that he can be an elite NBA shot blocker.
On the flip side, what is missing is not something that you can teach either.
I don’t really want to say more but you can e-mail me if you have any questions.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
Two Sides of the Kings
There are 2 sides to the Kings business. The basketball side which is run by Petrie and the actual business (Sales/ Marketing/ Operations/Accounting) side which is run by Matina…….. They operate independent of eachother.
If you take away Petrie’s ability to evaluate talent from an objective standpoint you really dillute the process. The coaching staff has limited say in many of the basketball decisions… Their core job and focus is to do the best with what Petrie gives them to work with.
by KingsFanNoMatterWhat on Jun 14, 2011 1:35 PM PDT reply actions
We are the world Post-Jimmer (PJ)
Anything before was Before Jimmer (BJ).
Nothing wrong with people wanting a little BJ.
This.
I thought you’re not allowed to set yourself up for a spike…
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 15, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't be upset over Leonard
Great work ethic, very athletic, and seems like the type who would respect his role on the court. Also a pretty well rounded player, but doesn’t really excel in any particular area.
Leonard isn't athletic
Check out his vertical leap. only 32" vertical leap (12th worst of all combine participants)
A SF that is an above-average rebounder
Average at everything else and a sub-par shooter…hmmm? I think Casspi and Greene are and will be better than Leonard.
Leonard = NaUpgrade.
Casspi
is taller, longer, more athletic and a much better shooter, and has 2 years NBA experience… PASS
But...
He has not shown the ability to adapt to the role of lockdown defender and 4th-5th offensive option. That is the question with Casspi – can he adapt his game or are we wasting our time trying to pound a square peg into a round hole? I’d love to see Omri check his ego at the door and embrace the opportunity that has been presented to him, and I would love nothing more than seeing him succeed in a Kings uniform. The ball, as they say, is in his court.
And I don’t say this specifically because of Leonard, though I think that he could be a good pick. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute would probably be a better fit at the 3 than Casspi right now, and Casspi is taller and longer and a much, much, much better shooter than Luc.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Casspi's D
Is his defense really that bad? (serious question) I know the guy works hard, so is he trying to adapt to the role of lockdown defender and is just not there yet, or is he really unwilling to take on that role? Is there a rating or percentage system that shows how his defense looks to the league average for the last 2 years?
On offense isnt Casspi perfect for what PW wants from the 3? Hes not a great shooter yet, but thats his role on O. He has no mid range game and isnt much of a passer, but that is not his role. And hes pretty damn good on the fast break.
I think if we trade Casspi this offseason, or we sign/draft a 3 and Casspi is sitting on the bench, he will force his way out, we will be later on in the season saying… I wish we had somebody like Casspi at the 3.
Casspi’s defensive rating last season: 109 (tied for third best on the team)
Casspi’s defensive rating his rookie season: 110 (tied for eight best on the team)
Those numbers are right on the average of the Kings team as a whole both seasons. Not sure how he compares leaguewide.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
The issues for Casspi last year
He wanted to be a more focal part of the offense. And after his rookie year I can see why. But the addition of Cousins (and later Thornton) re-wrote the role of the 3 on this team, and I think that Casspi has struggled to adjust in that respect. Casspi ranked 38th in overall efficiency last year amongst NBA small forwards, and tied for 40th in TS%.
Defensively he seemed to struggle more with where he was supposed to be defensively in the zone, handling switches, etc. I can only liken it to the trouble that Justin Williams used to have understanding the defense, and as a result he wound up on the bench.
Casspi is only 22. Can he change? Absolutely. But as a young player that has already shown a penchant for being outspoken, the question is he willing to change?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
thanks Otis
yea I didnt think he was awful on D.
I dont think it makes any sense to draft a SF and then keep Casspi around. Garcia isnt going anywhere with his contract, and Greene doesnt have any value. So drafting a 3, and keeping the guys on our roster, and Evans seeing time at the 3 can not work.
With management saying we arent looking at a long term project (Euros), I think all signs are pointing to Jimmer or Walker or a trade.
Doesnt it make more sense to trade Casspi and the 7 for a proven SF, rather than drafting one and putting another log in the jam.
Marion and Barea for the 7, Udrih, and Casspi
I know they are free agents, but some type of sign and trade
If the Kings bring in a SF,
it makes sense to move Casspi, regardless of whether the new SF is brought in via trade, free agencey or draft. If you are asking would I prefer a legit veteran SF as opposed to Leonard or Vesely or even Singleton, absolutely. I believe that I have said that over and over again – that I would prefer that we trade the pick for veteran talent. But if we do not acquire a veteran with that pick, the small forward position is in play. All you have to do is look at the combined contributions of Garcia/Casspi/Greene last year to realize that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Section214 how is it cutting off your nose
when most drafts are a total gamble. All I am saying is that if you have your picks down to 2 or 3 you take the one that will SELL TICKETS from day one. After 1 and 2 drafts are just a big gamble, luck whatever you want to call it. Even the 1st and 2nd more times than not are busts. Look at the draft of 1998. Olowokondi went 1, we took Jason Williams at 7, his passing sure put people in seats. I would guess GP thought he was taking the best player, sure didn’t hurt that his crazy passing skills would draw fans from day one. Larry Hughes, Nowitzki and Paul Pierce came in that order after JW. Just shows your rolling dice when you draft.
by rivercitysports on Jun 15, 2011 9:43 AM PDT reply actions
First, the reply button is your friend
2nd, if you’re at a flat-footed tie as to who to draft, sure, take the ticket seller.
And I don’t think that the drafting of Williams had anything to do with selling tickets. I think that it had completely to do with the fact that Petrie thought that Williams was the best prospect when he selected him. If selling tickets were the issue, he would not have drafted Stojakovic or Turkoglu, as no one knew who the heck those guys were (the selection of Peja was roundly booed at the draft party). And they sure as heck wouldn’t have traded Williams for the more vanilla Mike Bibby.
Directly quoting Petrie, “If you’re going to lead the orchestra you have to turn your back to the audience.” Does that sound like a man that is going to make his selection based on ticket sales?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
pwn'd
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 15, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it really
I have workers that I tell the reply button is there friend and they don’t seem to think so. Thanks for the tip, new to the site.
Sounds like we agree. I never said or would think GP would draft someone based on ticket sales. But as said, if things look even you take the one who sells tickets.
Still hope Vesely falls to us, if not I like Jimmer. Great shot and sells tickets.
by rivercitysports on Jun 16, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Vesely's name seems to be popping up quite often these days
I wonder if he’s going to jump up into the top 6.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11















