How You Remind Me, 2011 Edition
The draft is an incredible process. Every year we see players rise and fall in draft rankings, long after the last games have been played. Teams get excited about a players workout, our sour on a player based on a perceived flaw. Most importantly, teams make these same mistakes over and over.
I don't watch much college basketball. I watch even less international basketball. As such, I struggle to evaluate players in traditional methods. I rely heavily on what I read and learn from all of you. Rather than writing a draft preview full of information gleamed from others, I instead prefer to focus on situations.
In what has become a bit of a tradition (see 2010 and 2009 versions), I compare players and their draft situations. As such, the following comparisons are not based on how players play. At all. I cannot emphasize this enough. If I compare a player to Darko, it isn't because I think he plays like Darko. It is because I believe his situation leading up to the draft is similar to Darko's.
If you click the links above, you'll see that I am often wrong. Sometimes comically so. That's OK. These are intended to provoke though and discussion, and then to provide laughter in retrospect. Looking at last year's predictions, mission accomplished.
Please note, players are in no particular order. Although Sactown Royalty bylaws required that I list Jimmer first.
Jimmer Fredette
The Jimmer is actually one of the tougher players to contrast. I could easily turn to a Stephen Curry comparison and shamelessly link to my comparison of the two players. That, however, would be a comparison of playing styles, so I shall resist the temptation. Instead, I believe the best comparison for Jimmer's draft scenario is that of Ricky Rubio.
Rubio is the last player I can recall stirring StR into a such a frenzy, and was equaling polarizing. Half loves him, half loathes him, half think he's somewhere in the middle, and the other half sucks at math. Unfortunately, we still don't know if Rubio will be a success in the NBA. However, this comparison does ensure that David Kahn will likely draft Jimmer and then spend the next 2 years trying to convince Jimmer to buy a house in Minnesota.
Bismack Biyombo
Biyombo has a great first name, and the last name works pretty well. He's an international man of mystery that has scouts and GMs fascinated with what he could become. He young and raw, but could become one of the best players from this draft. Chad Ford wrote the must-read bio of Bismack, a bio which convinced many folks to buy in completely. Clearly, Bismack is Darko. Darko Milicic.
This seems like a good time to reiterate that these comparisons are not necessarily meant to be an evaluation of a player's potential or predicted success. This is simply an observation of the similarities between draft situations. With Darko we saw the importance of fit. Had Darko gone anywhere other than Detroit, his career may have been much different. Ending up under Larry Brown was a worst-case scenario for Darko. Similarly, Biyombo needs the right situation. Teams should be cautious about drafting him unless they are willing to devote the time and patience into developing him.
Enes Kanter
Kanter has been an interesting player. Slated to join Kentucky, he suddenly found himself ineligible after the NCAA rules that he had received compensation for playing overseas. Rather than attempt to catch on with another international team, Kanter remained in the US and worked out privately. If a perfect comparison exists for this scenario, I can't think of it. When considering the details of the scenario, Kanter most reminds me of Brandon Jennings.
Jennings, due to completely different circumstances, was also unable to join the collegiate ranks. Jennings opted to play overseas, but many of the same questions surrounded Jennings as now surround Kanter. We wondered what might have been if he'd played college ball. We wondered how his stats would translate? Jennings was unimpressive overseas, but translated fairly well to the NBA. Kanter is a similar mystery. I suspect he will be similar to Jennings; not a flop, but not an immediate superstar.
Kyrie Irving
Irving is another difficult player to compare. Irving was a high school phenom, but injuries limited him to 11 collegiate games. In those 11 games, including games in the NCAA Tournament, Irving impressed. Nobody seems confident that he'll end up being the best player in this draft, but everyone is confident he should be selected first overall. This reminds me of John Wall.
Last year there were questions about whether Wall had the highest ceiling, but there was no question he would go first overall. Considered a safe pick, he was selected first overall and became the new face of the Washington Wizards. Irving might not have the highest ceiling, but he's considered safe. He'll be selected first overall, and he'll become the new face of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Derrick Williams
Williams' draft situation is one we've certainly seen before. He led his NCAA team to some impressive victories, but ultimately fell short in the tournament. He's widely seen as the consensus second pick, but there are some who believe he should be taken first overall. There are questions about what position he'll play in the NBA. All of these things remind me of the draft situation of Kevin Durant.
Whenever I make a comparison like this I feel compelled to include a reminder that I am not comparing styles of play nor am I comparing player potential. The situations are similar, that is all. Williams, like Durant, played the 3 in college but is considered an undersized 4 in the NBA. Time will tell, but Williams does have the potential to be more successful in the NBA than the consensus first pick. A consensus first pick who happens to have a history of injuries.
Jan Vesely
Vesely was initially in last year's draft and was expected to be a high lottery pick. He pulled out at the last minute and returned to play overseas for another year. This gave teams more opportunity to scout him, and more opportunity to observe the flaws in his game. More questions arose. It is difficult to project where he will be selected this year, but he probably would have been better off making the leap last season. All of this reminds me of Tiago Splitter.
Splitter was coveted by NBA teams for years. Depending on the season, he was projected to go somewhere in the lottery. He finally made the leap in 2007, being selected by the Spurs. He was selected much lower than he likely would have gone in earlier years. After remaining in Europe several years to avoid the rookie pay scale, he joined the team last year. It is too early to tell how this will impact his career long-term.
Jonas Valanciunas
Rather than needing to focus intently on every key stroke, I'm going to call Jonas by his first name. In time I'm sure I'll learn to quickly and easily spell his last name correctly, but not today. Jonas is a young international player, standing just about 7 feet tall. He doesn't carry a ton of weight, making his a quick and versatile center who can step back and shoot the ball. Teams have had an opportunity to scout him, but would still be drafting based on what they hope he will become. Basically, he's Andrea Bargnani.
Kawhi Leonard
I don't really have a comparison for Leonard's draft situation. I'm sure one exists, but it escapes me. I considered leaving him off this list altogether, but that seemed inappropriate since he very well could end up on the Kings. Rather than forcing something here, I'll take a pass. This might seem cheap, but it's better than two years ago when I didn't include Tyreke on my list at all.
Brandon Knight
Brandon Knight seems like a great kid. I'd be pretty happy if he fell to the Kings at the 7th pick. But it strikes me as odd that he shot up the draft board shortly after the season ended. In early mocks, he was projected to be more in the 5-10 range, rather than seeming to be a top 5 lock. He's a player who jumped, and is considered one of the prizes of this draft. I'm not sure I disagree, but it seems to have come from nowhere.
This reminds me of what I saw with Tyreke Evans. I know he was on the radar for lots of people, but it took me by surprise when we were discussing him for the 4th pick. I feel I should reiterate again that I'm comparing draft scenarios, not player styles or player potentials.
Kemba Walker
Kemba Walker played a couple of successful seasons of college ball at UConn, leaving with a National Championship. He's more of a scorer, but his size has him pegged as a point guard. He's quick, and has been known to play a little out of control at times. And now, despite playing very well and demonstrating a variety of admirable qualities and skills, people seem to be talking themselves into why he should fall in the draft.
All of this reminds me of Russell Westbrook. Westbrook had played very well for a very good UCLA team, and demonstrated a variety of skills. However, by the time the draft came around, many pundits had talked themselves into lowering Westbrook's projected draft position, as well as his expected success. Sam Presti took Westbrook 4th overall, which was considered a bit of a reach at the time. Similarly, I expect Kemba will still go fairly high, it will be considered a reach, but Kemba will probably turn out just fine.
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Fun twist.
I’m pained to say this, but I’m actually coming around to Kemba.
I know, Jimmer. I’m sorry. I like you more, but I would be okay with Kemba.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 20, 2011 10:58 AM PDT reply actions
Just to clarify,
I like Jimmer more than Kemba. But I would be okay with Kemba.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 20, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
WHAT!?! Kanter does not play at all like Jennings. Not even the same position! Terrible terrible comparison of how Kanter players.
(okay sorry I simply could not resist. Caution: Sarchasm Ahead!)
Nice write up. Brings back some good memories of past drafts.
I agree with a lot of these.
I remember Westbrook differently though. He came out of nowhere and had his stock steadily increase through the year. Mocks had him up to 6-8 by draft day and then Presti shocked people taking him at 4. He had a lot of great physically skills, but had the NaPG questions surrounding him and a suspect outside shot. He was also the 2nd or 3rd option that season for UCLA (Love and Collison).
Kawhi Leonard might compare to Favors
Ridiculous physical specimen with defensive abilities that needs to work on his offensive game. And the similarities for why he gets picked high are the same as well.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
If just comparing situations, I think Greg Monroe could also fit.
He could go as high as 5 as low as the teens. His skill set is intriguing but he’s not clearly a dominant (or most talented) player at his position.
This.
I've come to the conclusion
Anyone who is described as intriguing, and I’ve used it myself in reference to Biyombo, I’m not interested in.
Physical specimen?
I know Kawhi has big hands, but he doesn’t seem to be overly athletic or anything like that. Maybe my memory of his testing fails me.
by nobodyinparticular on Jun 20, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you're right
I think the terms “smooth” and “fluid” are used with him more often than “explosive” or “tremendously athletic”.
Doesn’t mean he’s non-athletic by any means, just not exceptionally so.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Not only this
But he came in in the bottom 5 in terms of bench press (only putting up 3 reps) and measured in at 6’6" w/out shoes and 6’7" w/shoes. He’s nice and heavy for a small forward, but his height, while serviceable at the small forward position is well below the average, and his strength on the bench press leaves a bit to be desired as well. (Favors put up 14 reps and 6" more on his no step vert)
by nobodyinparticular on Jun 20, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Durant failed to execute one rep on the bench press
And his wingspan more than makes up for his height. As I’ve said elsewhere, would you rather have a guy that can leap to get a ball, or a guy that doesn’t have to leap?
At the end of the day, all of the measurements and data are nice, but it all boils down to whether or not a guy can play. If it all came down to the numbers, Magic and Bird and Barkley and others would have never been drafted.
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Before I hung up my cleats 4 years ago,
I could bench my weight (185) six times. But I probably could not hit five straight shots from anywhere on the floor, including under the basket.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
seriously
the fact that people act shocked that insanely tall lean players with huge frickin arms can’t bench 185 all that much is kind of funny.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 20, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Here you go
Draft express: “He’s a ridiculous physical specimen with no body fat, long arms, and giant hands”
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kawhi-Leonard-5821/#ixzz1PqO26p63
http://www.draftexpress.com
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Well, that's a bit older data
The newer data on that same page tends to refute that statement.
Hard to tell though, but everything I’ve heard is that he’s a decent athlete, but not extraordinary.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
I was not just focusing on athleticism.
I think that my take on it is a bit more focused on his defensive abilities and yet still a need to progress offensively. He is clearly super fit without an ounce of body fat on him. That seems similar to Favors in that respect though yes not ‘extraordinary’. Clearly he isn’t as athletic or he would going much higher.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
Sorry, but "ridiculous physical specimen"
Incorporates athleticism in my opinion. Unless you’re evaluating bodybuilders, and I don’t think that’s the case in that article.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Or -
simply separate his athletic skills from his physical attributes. His tremendous wingspan and hands make him a plus rebounder and a potential defensive presence. On the other hand, he does not appear to be a high flier. I kind of like a guy that doesn’t have to leap to get long. I don’t know how or where that ranks on the athletecism scale, but I like it.
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Actually, I agree with you - and am hoping we take Leonard at the 7 if we don't trade the pick
But I think trying to sell him as a “ridiculous physical specimen” might imply things that just aren’t true (for an NBA player).
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Agreed 100%
And this is why I think the sometime comparison to Gerald Wallace is inaccurate. Wallace is much more athletic than Leonard. I think that Leonard compares more physically to Caron Butler.
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Draftexpress did follow up that remark with comments about his zero body fat, arm length and big hands...
And I think with his length that might offset his ability to get vertical a bit. Look at this… That is some long arms!

And his ability to jump doesn’t look all that bad to me…

I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I kind of like a guy that doesn’t have to leap to get long.
TW… never mind.
by luckthefakers on Jun 20, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Trend developing?
I noticed that there were no comparisons for either Tyreke or DMC in their respective years. Does this mean that Kawhi is GP’s guy this year?
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
Chad Ford wrote a must read bio of Brandon Jennings several weeks before the draft that changed my mind
so in that situation he reminds me of Biyombo whose must read bio I have yet to read.
G, I’ll buy your situational comparison of Jimmer and Ricky but as I remember there were other players in that draft that stirred up passions here, who could forget, Thabeeeeeeeet, Blake Griffin, and whoever Pookey liked. the fiery darts flew early and often right up til the hour of the draft so I’ll go for this situational comparison for Jimmer = 2009 draft.
Props to Mustang, I was thinking the same thing. Thanks G and for your final act answer this situational question: with the 7th pick the Kings picked____________which reminded me of the ________draft. Pookey got drunk and swore he would never watch another Kings game but came around in the morning. The draft thread erupted with comments with nobody really liking the pick with many predicting doom and bad things ahead for the Kings. Around 10:30 the I trust GP sentiment started to build and by midnight had carried the day.
"It ain't Chinese algebra" - Tony Allen from Basketbawful
That's easy
Tristan Thompson, Jason Thompson. Duh.
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Wait
What are we comparing again?
Do not put your faith in what statistics say until you have carefully considered what they do not say. - William W. Watt
Might want to check
your Tiago Splitter draft history one more time G. ;)
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jun 20, 2011 11:56 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
What did I mess up?
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Short answer is Yes.
Long answer is he was taken late first round in 2007 and left in Europe to develop, partly by design, and partly by his agent wanting him to wait 3 years so as to avoid the rookie scale.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jun 20, 2011 12:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah, damn, you're right
I do a lot of these from memory. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he pull out one or two years before actually entering the draft?
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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Fixed it
Thanks
In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.
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My Comp....
Kawhi = Stacey Augmon
by KingsFanNoMatterWhat on Jun 20, 2011 11:59 AM PDT reply actions
I would actually be ecstatic with that at #7,
depending on how long it took Leonard to develop into primetime Augmon.
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Always liked the Plastic Man....
I would also be very good with getting that at #7 of this draft.
by KingsFanNoMatterWhat on Jun 20, 2011 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
nice comparison KingsFan
Of course Augmon was an elite defender and came into the League that way.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 20, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm going to go out on a limb with a prediction ...
Jimmer won’t be there for us at 7 ….. that’ll be the shocker of the draft.
Good read, but
I kind of disagree about the description of Valanciunas (it’s still easier to write “Valanciunas” right that “Motiejunas”, at least) you gave.
He is very very good from the free throw line, but his scoring, for now, has almost consisted only of dunks, putbacks and layups. Since he has such an high percentage from free throws it’s very possible he’ll end up having a better mid-range game than what he has shown, but I don’t see him ending as a “shooting” center. He is thin, but he uses very well his speed to take position and to defend.
Beside that, Bargnani had some serious hype when he got drafted, while Valanciunas, even if projected top 5 in most mocks, is far less hyped in my opinion (and, unrelated, I also think he’ll end up being a better player).
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
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