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2011 NBA DRAFT – DALT99 SYSTEM PLAYER RANKINGS


Thanks everybody for your patience and (hopefully) interest in my system findings.

Sorry again for the delay. No matter how hard I try I can't seem to get the post finished each year before June 21st! Well, it's been an especially busy year for me, preparing for my first marriage in three months, and fixing up my house. I am just happy to have a home team to continue to root for!

Star-divide

My scoring system ranks players from 0-105. It’s based on a ton of factors, mostly statistical, and I have produced a system score for just about EVERY other player to come out of college since 1982. By comparing how the recent crop of college players match up to how past players fared in the NBA, the score is a guide to show the probable POTENTIAL of each player. Each season is different, with different schools being more or less talented than last year and different conferences being stronger or weaker than last year. I have to incorporate all of that into the scoring. It's a unique system that I don't think anyone else has incorporated in this way.

 

European players are also scored on how they performed statistically, but I am not able to incorporate the strength of schedule or team talent into the scoring in anywhere close to a comfortable level. Also many European players play sparingly, very few games or for several teams per season, so their scores have a much larger "margin of error". Enes Kanter for instance is a total mystery. He had a poor four game showing in the Euroleague (scored below 75) but was an absolute monster in nine games with Turkey, scoring an unbelievable 103 on my system. I mean, the dude averaged 26 points and 23 rebounds per 40 minutes for goodness sake! I ended up using the stats from his five game stint with Instanbul since it seemed more realistic. So yah, Euros can be a crapshoot.

 

PLEASE forgive any spelling or puncuation errors...

OK, here they are. My 2011 NBA draft player scores. After the scores will be my thoughts and findings on a few key players in this draft in regards to OUR Sacramento Kings!

 

Player-Class

School/Country

Pos.

Score

Kyrie Irving-F

Duke

PG

99

Derrick Williams-So

Arizona

PF

95.5

Jonas Valanciunas-E

Lithuania

C

95

Markieff Morris-J

Kansas

FC

94

Kemba Walker-J

Connecticut

G

92

Marcus Morris-J

Kansas

F

92

Alec Burks-So

Colorado

SG

91

Brandon Knight-F

Kentucky

PG

89.5

Bismack Biyombo-E

Spain

PF

89

Klay Thompson-J

Washington St.

GF

89

Enes Kanter-E

Turkey

PF

89

Darius Morris-So

Michigan

PG

88.5

Jimmer Fredette-Se

Brigham Young

PG

88

Jordan Hamilton-So

Texas

SF

88

Tobias Harris-F

Tennessee

F

88

Jereme Richmond-F

Illinois

SF

88

Iman Shumpert-J

Georgia Tech

SG

87.5

Laurence Bowers-J

Missouri

F

87.5

Isaiah Thomas-J

Washington

PG

87

Marshon Brooks-Se

Providence

SG

86.5

Jamine "Greedy" Peterson-J

D-League

F

86.5

Kawhi Leonard-So

San Diego State

F

85.5

Jan Vesely-E (J)

Czech Republic

F

85.5

Jordan Williams-So

Maryland

FC

85.5

Demetri McCamey-Se

Illinois

PG

85.5

Nikola Vucevic-J

USC

FC

85

Nikola Mirotic-E

Spain

PF

85

Josh Selby-F

Kansas

G

84.5

Tristan Thompson-F

Texas

FC

84

Tyler Honeycutt-So

UCLA

SF

84

Mickey McConnell-Se

Saint Mary's

PG

84

Rick Jackson-Se

Syracuse

FC

83.5

Nolan Smith-Se

Duke

PG

83

Cory Joseph-F

Texas

PG

83

Brad Wanamaker-Se

Pittsburgh

SG

83

Donatas Motiejunas-E

Italy

FC

82

Travis Leslie-J

Georgia

SG

82

Ben Hansbrough-Se

Notre Dame

PG

82

Bojan Bogdanovic-E

Bosnia

GF

81

Josh Slater-Se

Lipscomb

G

81

Kyle Singler-(Se)

Duke

SF

80.5

Diante Garrett-Se

Iowa State

PG

80.5

Kenneth Faried-Se

Morehead State

PF

80

Elias Harris-So

Gonzaga

F

80

Julyan Stone-Se

UTEP

GF

79.5

Trey Thompkins-(J)

Georgia

PF

78.5

Matthew Bryan-Amaning-Se

Washington

FC

78.5

LaRon Dendy-(Se)

Iowa State

PF

78.5

Jeffery Taylor-J

Vanderbilt

SF

78

Shelvin Mack-J

Butler

G

78

E'Twaun Moore-Se

Purdue

G

78

Andrew Goudelock-Se

Charleston

PG

78

Travis Franklin-Se

Colorado State

SF

78

Jon Leuer-Se

Wisconsin

PF

77.5

Justin Harper-Se

Richmond

F

77.5

Scotty Hopson-J

Tennessee

SG

77.5

Jacob Pullen-Se

Kansas State

PG

76.5

David Lighty-Se

Ohio State

G

76.5

Chandler Parsons-Se

Florida

F

76.5

Keith Benson-Se

Oakland

FC

75.5

Jon Diebler-Se

Ohio State

GF

75.5

Papa Dia-Se

SMU

PF

75

Charles Jenkins-J

Hofstra

G

74.5

Michael Dunigan-(J)

Oregon

C

74.5

Damian Saunders-(Se)

Duquesne

F

74

JaJuan Johnson-Se

Purdue

PF

73.5

Justin Holiday-Se

Washington

GF

73.5

Chris Singleton-J

Florida State

F

72.5

Greg Smith-So

Fresno State

FC

72.5

Tracy Smith-(Se)

NC State

PF

72.5

Talor Battle-(Se)

Penn State

PG

72.5

Denzel Bowles-Se

James Madison

FC

72

Malcolm Thomas-Se

San Diego State

PF

72

Luke Sikma-Se

Portland

FC

71.5

Tai Wesley-Se

Utah State

PF

71

La'Shard Anderson-Se

Boise State

PG

71

Jerai Grant-Se

Clemson

PF

70.5

Willie Reed-J

Saint Louis

FC

70

Malcolm Delaney-(Se)

Virginia Tech

PG

68.5

Chris Long-Se

Elon

PG

68.5

Ryan Rossiter-Se

Siena

FC

68

Kalin Lucas-Se

Michigan State

PG

66.5

Cam Long-Se

George Mason

G

66.5

Gilberto Clavell-Se

Sam Houston

F

65

Chris Wright-Se

Dayton

F

63.5

Frank Hassell-Se

Old Dominion

FC

63

Chris Warren-Se

Mississippi

PG

62.5

Andy Ogide-Se

Colorado State

FC

62.5

James Beatty-Se

Rutgers

PG

58.5

Jeremy Hazell-(Se)

Seton Hall

SG

58

Matt Howard-Se

Butler

PF

57

Brandon Moore-Se

Mercer

F

53

 

 

Position Overview (per my statistical scoring system)

POINT GUARD - What I look for when statistically comparing a current college point guard to all the point guards of the past are 4 main things. I call them the "Gold Standards":

  1. FG%. Most decent point guards in college today fall into the 40% to 45% range. That is about average. To be a true prospect in my eyes, I look for a point guard with a FG% over 45. To be a possible future star, I prefer to see 50% or better with at least 13.3 FG attempts per 40 minutes.
  2. Assist Score. It's not as important to have a high assist total as it is to have a good assist total with a good scoring average. I call it an Assist Score. Basically, what I do is take their points per game total and average it out to 40. Then I do the same with the assist total, double it, then add that assist total to the point total. If they add up to 34 or greater, that's a prospect to look closer at. 37 is the Gold Standard however.
  3. Assist/Turnover Rate. In college, it's rare for a point guard to have an A/TO rate of 2.0 or above. In the NBA, 3.0 is the gold standard. Many of the college future star point guards have a 2.0 A/TO rate or better. For freshman, somewhere around 1.75 seems to be the gold standard.
  4. Steal Rate. Many of the best point guards to play in the NBA were fantastic thieves in college. Chris Paul snagged almost 3.0 a game per 40 minutes. Jason Kidd, 3.6/40. John Stockton, 4.1/40! Over 2 steals is impressive but 2.5 or higher per 40 minutes, is elite.
  5. All the Above. OK, this is kind of an obvious one, but if a player has a FG% over 50, an assist score of 34 or higher, an A/TO rate of 2 or better AND a steal rate of over 2.5 per 40 minutes, this is not only a player to check out, but one to remember as it's RARELY happened. Who was the college player to rate best in all four areas in the same season? None other than what I consider to be the quintessential point guard, Mr. John Stockton. His senior year at Gonzaga he shot 57.7% from the field on 15.1 shots per 40, had an assist score of 37.6, A/TO rate of 2.16 and 4.14 steals per 40 minutes. He went on to the NBA to have average 2.77 steals per game for his career (including 2 steal titles) as well as an A/TO rate of 3.75, and shot 51.5% from the field.

To conclude, a point guard doesn't have to have the "gold standard" in all four areas to become a great player nor do they have to have any! However, it IS rare to find a star PG in the NBA that didn't have 1 or 2 of the above standards when they played in college. Freshman and sophomores are given a little slack though, since I have never seen a player in his freshman year come close to having all four of the above criteria...including John Stockton.

 

Kyrie Irving -

My opinions: Looks like the Real Deal here. Fantastic body control when finishing at the basket. For his size, he is an excellent finisher at the rim though he favors his right hand considerably. Kyrie is never afraid of contact. Not extremely athletic but he is quick and determined. Deadly outside shooter but not fantastic yet at the dribble and pull-up from 15 feet and out.

Statistically speaking: Irving gets to the FT line at a phenomenal rate of 9.3 attempts per 40 minutes. For a rookie point guard that is near unmatched, though it is in only 11 games of action. That shows that he will drive the ball and is not afraid at all of contact. 6.3 assists per 40 is very good considering he is also putting up 25.5 points per 40! Proving his great shooting touch, he shoots an outstanding 52.9% from the field, 90% from the FT line and over 45% from three. 2.1 steals per 40 minutes is very acceptable. A/TO rate of 1.7 for a freshman is better than average. Solid in almost every area.

 

Derrick Williams -

My opinions: Super athletic 6'8" power forward that can dunk almost as flashy as Blake Griffin. Not a huge leaper standing still (29" vert) but with a head start and due to his 7'1" wingspan, he can dunk over just about anybody. Surprisingly fast and crafty on the perimeter, he surprises people off the dribble drive and gets to the basket fairly well. Not a jump shooter off the dribble but is a scorer and is ferocious inside as well as hitting open outside shots from 15' all the way out to the three point line.

Statistically speaking: Free throws. That's right, free throws. 11.6 attempts per 40 minutes show that he is a beast down low. Anytime a power player has more free throw attempts per game (8.7) than rebounds (8.3), you are almost guaranteed to have a player who is an inside force. Due to his athleticism he can grab rebounds away from taller players with his quick reactive abilities. He grabs 11.1 boards per 40 mins which is not overly impressive but is by no means inadequate. He is not an outstanding defender statistically (1.3 steals/40 and 0.9 blocks/40) but due to his quickness and strength should end up being at least a good defender. His impressive FG% of 59.0 is mostly because he doesn't take many bad shots (only 13.3 FGA per 40 mins) and knows his limitations offensively.

 

Kemba Walker -

My opinions: 6'1" junior. Here is a player that could be at #7 when the Kings pick. His best asset is his big heart and competitive fire. Made a lot of big shots for Connecticut and was never shy to take those shots. Similar to DeMarcus Cousins in that he plays with his emotions on his sleeve, however he can keep his head and knows how to channel those emotions to get the best out of himself. I am not sure how well he will do in the NBA at setting his teammates up. He is a true scoring point guard but if he can do something similar to what Russell Westbrook has done with his passing, Kemba could turn out to be better than he scores on my system. He is no future star it seems but could end up being a solid starter in a few years.

Statistically speaking: What jumps out to me at first glance is his scoring average of 25 ppg/40 minutes. His scoring average went up considerably from last season (16.5/40 PPG). That number is inflated a bit due to his very good ability to get to the free throw line 8.2 times per 40 and make them at an 82% clip. His other shooting stats are a bit less impressive, especially for a junior. He only shoots 42.8% from the field and 33% from three. I am not so concerned with his FG% due to the fact that he took over 19 shots per game. In the NBA he will be a bit more discerning which should help his percentage. Even still, he takes a bit too many threes (5.5 per game) than he should. He will have to get better at the deep shot if he is going to be taking that many attempts. His assist total is below average at 4.8/40, however his A/TO rate of 1.98 is actually very impressive considering he controls the ball as much as he does. That bodes very fairly well for him moving into a point guard role in the NBA. 2.0 steals/40 is a product of his instincts and quickness.

 

Brandon Knight -

My opinions: Very quick and athletic. Good leaping ability (37.5" max vertical) off the dribble. Good shooter that can hit set shots, shots off the dribble and off screens from about any distance 23 feet and in. Crafty and confident, Brandon seems to have an idea of what he wants to do out on the court. Very fluid game. His score is a bit lower than I thought it would be and since it is only his freshman year and he seems to have a high basketball IQ, I expect him to exceed his score by the time his career is over but his freshman year was somewhat inconsistent.

Statistically speaking: He scores so seemingly low not because any specific stat is terrible but because he doesn't excel in any area. Let's look at how he stacks up on the "Gold Standard" for point guards that I detailed above.

  1. FG% - 42.3%. Well below the 50%. Kemba Walker shot only 42.8% but that was on 19 FG attempts (including 5.9 threes) per 40 minutes. Kyrie Irving (another freshman) shot a fantastic 52.9% from the field (5.2 3-pt attempts/40), though he only averaged 13.8 shots per 40. Brandon shoots 42.3% on 15 FGA/40 with 6.8 shots via the three. If he cut down his 3-pt attempts a bit, he could easily reach the upper 40 percent range from the field.
  2. Assist Score - 28.6. Not a big deal to be under 34 as a freshman, though over 30 is preferred, especially for a player that played as many minutes as he did. For comparison, Derrick Rose scored a 33.2 A.S. as a freshman. Likewise Chris Paul scored a 31.7, John Wall scored a 34.0 and Tyreke Evans scored a 34.3 as freshmen. Brandon's main competition Kyrie Irving, scored a fantastic 38.0 as a freshman and Kemba Walker scored 34.8 as a junior.
  3. Assist/Turnover rate - 1.33. Well below the 2.0 gold standard for a "pure" point guard. This is even below the norm for a freshman high draft prospect at the point guard position. Fellow recent freshmen John Wall had a 1.61 A/TO rating and Derrick Rose had a 1.77 rating. Kyrie Irving has a 1.74 rating. Junior Kemba Walker, 1.98.
  4. Steals - 0.7/40. Miles below the 2.5 gold standard. There are many factors that could be at play here such as poor defensive instincts or lack of effort on defense. On certain teams, the coach tells his guards to not be overly aggressive and play a more controlled defense, so players have a lower steal total than they normally could get. Not so at Kentucky. In fact last year, John Wall averaged 2.1 steals/40 at Kentucky and in 2005 Rajon Rondo at Kentucky averaged 4.1/40 steals as a freshman!

  The statistic I like the best about Knight is his 3-pt percentage. No, 37.7% is not going to knock anyone socks off (wow, how old is that saying anyway? Mental note: learn some sayings post 1980) but as a freshman point guard who took 6.8 threes per game, that's very respectable. He easily has NBA range as well. He is also a good FT shooter at 79.5%.

 

Marcus Morris - (Click on his name to see a YouTube highlight clip and click HERE for a draft workout video)

My opinions: I like this player. A lot. If I were Petrie, I would take Morris with the 7th pick unless Irving, Williams, Walker or maybe Knight was on the board. I don't know enough about Valanciunas or Kanter to pick them above Morris. I leave that to the expert European scouts. The Kings will not pick him since I don't even think he worked out for them, but Morris in the Kings starting line-up at small forward (as the Kings are right now) would make them the best rebounding five in the league. Morris is the type of player the Kings look for:

Toughness? Check

Rebounding? Check

Fundamentals? Check

3-pt shooting? Check

Mid-range shooting? Check

Intangibles? Check

About the only thing Marcus is not is a superb athlete or great passer though he does show flashes of having that nugget in his game if he works on it. He is extremely solid with his back to the basket, even better than most big men. He has all the tools in the post: Great footwork, a drop step, mid-range face-up jump shot, turn around fade away jump shot, one-hand runner, hook shot, patience and craftiness. On the perimeter he can shoot a set shot, or shoot off the dribble. He is not the best defender in the world due to his 6'9", 235 lb frame and would have a tough time guarding small forwards the likes of Carmelo Anthony or Lebron James but against smaller forwards, he could take them into the post and have his way with them on the offensive end. He reminds me very much of Corliss Williamson if Corliss was 6'9", had 3-pt range, a fantastic mid-range jump shot and a better post game. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Statistically speaking: Very little to not like. Scoring? 24.3 points per 40 minutes is outstanding. 10.7 rebounds/40 including 3.7 offensive rebounds/40. 57.0 FG% on 15.7 shots/40. 34.2% 3-pt shooter on 2.8 attempts/40. 8.0 FTA/40. Low turnover rate. Average foul rate. 57.0 FG% puts him in league with past college junior small forwards such as LaPhonso Ellis (57.3%), Clyde Drexler (53.5%), Scottie Pippen (55.6%) and Grant Hill (57.8%). FT shooting is his biggest statistical weakness at only 68.8%.

 

Jimmer Fredette -

My opinions: Hmm, who does he remind me of? Minus the fancy ball handling and passing flair...Jason Williams anyone? Well OK, more like Stephen Curry really. This guy LOVES to put it up as soon as it hits his hands. He has range out to 30 feet and will shoot from there if he feels hot. High volume shooter. Playing for a mid-conference, his statistics are a bit skewed though not by a large margin. He is a decent ball handler but nothing special. He is no Tyreke Evans at getting to the hoop but he is quicker than he seems and can break down his man to kick out to open teammates. He needs a lot of shots to get his points. Has a tendency to get ahead of himself witch causes unforced turnovers.

Statistically speaking: Well, let's compare him with recent similar high volume shooting college player Stephen Curry:

Jimmer: FG%-45.2, FGA/40-23.1, 3-pt%-39.6, 3-pt attempts/40-9.5, Assists/40-4.8, FTA/40-8.5, PPG/40-32.3, A/TO-1.22, Steals/40-1.5

Stephen:FG%-45.4, FGA/40-24.0, 3pt%-38.7, 3-pt attempts/40-11.7, Assists/40-6.6, FTA/40-8.8, PPG/40-33.9, A/TO-1.50, Steals/40-3.0

The FG% is very similar as is the FG attempts and 3-pt% but Curry has Jimmer beat in every other category and by a wide margin in assists and steals. Also, Curry was a scoring machine straight out of high school while Fredette came into his own in his junior year. I think that Jimmer will be a very good NBA player. Whether it's as a full-time starter or not I am not sure but there is no doubt that he can shoot the basketball. If the Kings take him, I won't be too upset. I remember the Kings picking a point guard in the past that likes to pull up on the break and shoot from 27 feet off the dribble...that didn't turn out too bad. Are they going to be trading for a 6'10" power forward?

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Sweet, thanks Dalt

A lot to take in here, looking forward to reading the whole thing.

And congrats on the pending nuptials! Important safety tip though – don’t call it your “first” marriage around your fiancée.

"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11

by otis29 on Jun 21, 2011 12:21 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

LOL

"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11

by otis29 on Jun 21, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha!

She will be reading this. That’s why I called it my “first”. :)

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe what he is saying

Is that this is his first marriage in three months. 12th if you go all the way back to his KC days.

It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide

by SavageBeast on Jun 21, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha

thats how I read it! I was like “damn first marriage in three months, how many times does this dude get married every year”… anyway, congrats! My “first marriage” is in a month, July 16th.

by ivAAron on Jun 21, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Congrats!

Got to get married before the Kings season. ;)

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course!

Already bought my first season tickets for next year as a wedding gift to myself ;)

by ivAAron on Jun 21, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha!

If only you knew….

kidding. :)

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Curious

Markieff ranks higher than his brother on your system yet you like seem to like his brother more. Is it just because of position need or are you suspect of your numbers for Markieff? (I have to admit, I am bit more of a Markieff fan)

Also, a bit amazed how low Singleton is

by wallywagon11 on Jun 21, 2011 12:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Here are my thoughts on Chris Singleton

One of the better defenders in the draft. Long arms and quick reflexes helps him get an amazing 2.7 steals per 40 minutes. Add to that over 2 blocks a game and you have a solid defender. Offense is still a bit raw (18 ppg/40) though improving. Below average FT shooter (66.7) but is a decent 3-pt shooter. Not much of a post up game. At 6’9" he will mainly be a wing forward which might work out for him if he can improve his playmaking abilities.

His score is lower because his main stats (assists, rebounds and points) are only average for his position and height. 43.4 FG% is also subpar even considering he takes over four 3-pt shots a game. I will admit that I was a bit surprised too at his score. Defensive ability is not as easily scored in a statistical system so he could get to the low to mid 80’s before his career is over especially since he seems to be improving decently ever season.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Markieff Morris

Well, there are actually three things that jump out at me when I see his stats:
1. FG%. Any big man worth his salt that isn’t a 3-pt specialist really needs to have a decent FG%. Almost all of the best big men ever to play in the NBA had a FG% over 55. Hakeem Olajuwon (67.5% on 11.7 shots per 40 minutes), Carlos Boozer (66.5% on 13.9 shots), Blake Griffin (65.4% on 15.8 shots), Charles Barkley (63.8% on 12.8 shots), Tim Duncan (60.8% on 13.5 shots), David Robinson (59.1% on 21.4 shots!!!), Chris Webber (61.9% on 15.9 shots), Karl Malone (57.6% on 15.1 shots), etc.

I could go on and on with the FG percentage. 60% is the number to look for though. In this years draft the two best NCAA college prospects with a high FG% are Derrick Williams (59.5% on 13.3 shots) and Markieff who had a 58.9 FG% on 14.3 shots/40 mins.

Morris also grabs an impressive 13.6 rebounds/40 and hits a promising 42.4% from 2.5 3-pt attempts.
To reach his potential statistically (94 score) Morris would have to have a couple seasons where he averages around 18 points, 10 boards and 2 assists in 33 1/2 mintues of play.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha

The three things are 1. FG%, 2. Rebounding and 3. 3-pt %. :)

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

He doesn't have the polsih of brother Marcus and he may develop it. I would rather have Marcus

I also don’t think that Markieff could have more touches with Marcus in the game. If Markieff were to reach his potential on the Dalt99 scale I don’t think he could do it with his brother on the squad. Just a supposition on my part.

by betweentheeyes on Jun 21, 2011 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

One more questions for you

I mentioned this in another thread you posted in, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

How does Douby rate in your revised system? I am curious because I was looking at high usage players trying to find comps for Jimmer and the two closest were Curry and Douby. They all had very similar usage, TS%, eFG%, FT/FGA, PER/WS/Eff/40 (at least Jimmer and Douby) and points per possession. The only area they differed was passing statistics: Curry > Jimmer > Douby. And steals: Curry > Douby > Jimmer.

Curious if they are comparable in your system.

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very observant

They are very similar in fact. Douby scores out at an 87.5. I feel that number is dead on even though he never made it in the NBA. He is one of the better players in Europe right now averaging 32 points per game in China.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you

And I agree. Douby always bothered me as a fan. He just never seemed to turn the corner, but he had talent.

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

That subtle leap from the practice court to game time.

One could argue that Allen Iverson was the opposite to an extreme.

by betweentheeyes on Jun 22, 2011 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Somewhere a clip of Iverson's

“Practice? We’re talking about practice?” is playing in heaven. Or youtube. Whichever is heaven.

This.

by elfboy_ on Jun 22, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I noticed a lot of the same stuff

I was just surprised you did a paragraph on his brother when Markieff had the higher rating on your board. In retrospect seems you only did it becase you were looking at point guards and small forwards.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 21, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

I was focusing my attention on players I thought the Kings were after. I also didn’t think that Petrie was looking for a PF. Morris only played 24 minutes a game. Something of a red flag for many GMs. He got in foul trouble a lot which lowered his score a bit.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's like Christmas all over again

I have been waiting for these. Was starting to get nervous they wouldn’t come

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 12:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Great stuff, dalt

Rec’d.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 21, 2011 12:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Yes! The rankings are here!

Here are the links to the previous drafts so you can gauge Dalt’s success

2010 (I find it notable that Landry Fields is up relatively high, when he wasn’t even captured in Hollinger’s Metrics)

2009

2008 The most controversial one, with Beasley and Love over Rose, and Mareese Speights at 4th. I think dalt was still tweaking his formula here.

Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Jun 21, 2011 12:54 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

With those two so many of the problems are also "betwee the ears"

that it’s difficult to categorize statistically.

Hollinger mentioned this in his draft ratings too. He said teh ratings were pretty darn accurate for guards and wings, but most of the false positives were big men.

He said he’s come to believe it is because there are so many talented smaller players, that it is hard for smaller guys to get by on just physical skills alone at the college level. They tend to get exposed statistically. However, if you are big and somewhat athletic, it’s not too hard in college to grab a lot of rebounds and have a high FG% from dunks and put backs. You don’t need the same level of skill or dedication.

I would agree with his assessment.

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very true

I found that the system was giving way too high scores to players that grabbed a lot of rebounds. I found a solution to it though I am still not sure it’s perfect. I am never completely satisfied with my system since I am a perfectionist in some ways and statistics is by it’s nature am imperfect world.

I still stand by the order though. The system still ranks Beasley first at 101, Love second at 97, Rose third at 96.5 and Speights is now fifth at 92.5 behind OJ Mayo (93.5). Freshman are always hard to really guage. It’s like taking the stats on NBA rookies and projecting them out. It’s better if they have played at least two seasons but what can I do?

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is

I give each class a “bonus” up to seniors who don’t recieve any bonus since most of the players in the 80’s and 90’s went to school for at least three and usually four full years.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW

Thank you Aykis for linking back to my previous years posts. I meant to do that but forgot. :)

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes!!

Will read soon. Just coming in to rec it

"Children want what they want when they want it." ... Andy Sims

by edm7 on Jun 21, 2011 12:59 PM PDT reply actions  

Great stuff as always

The only complaint I would have (and it’s very mild) is that you are using only one year’s stats for Fredette when you compare him to Curry. Last year he was asked by his coaches to pretty much carry the entire team on his back scoring wise. That significantly pulled down his numbers.

Jr. Year — APG 4.6, AST% 30.4, ATRatio 1.2, FG%45.8, 3pt% 44

Sr. Year — APG 4.3, AST% 28.4, ATRatio 1.2, FG%45.2, 3pt% 39.6

His junior year numbers are actually quite comparable numbers to Curry’s junior year. Now I understand someone saying, “well I guess he just regressed.” But I think a much more likely answer, given his progression up to his senior year is that he was asked to take a lot more shots, affecting his overall numbers. This is why I think many people are undervaluing him.

It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide

by SavageBeast on Jun 21, 2011 1:03 PM PDT reply actions  

BTW

Not saying Fredette will be Steph Curry. Just that one year’s number’s can be deceiving. Also, his junior year AT Ratio should have been 1.7, not 1.2.

It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide

by SavageBeast on Jun 21, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good Comment

You bring up a point I haven’t really commented on but I actually take the player’s best score of his last two seasons played, not just use the score for the stats for the year he is drafted. I do the same thing for every player from around 1982 on. Jimmer’s junior year earned him a 89.5 HOWEVER, last season the Mountain West Conference was a tad weaker giving him a final score of 87.5 when compared to this season. Therefore the 88 from this year was the scored I used.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wow. Nice.

But how do you factor in Jimmer’s ability to heal small animals with a gentle touch? That has to be worth 3-4 points right?

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nice

That makes sense.

It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide

by SavageBeast on Jun 21, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

11 games

Wally hit it on the nose. 11 games is a small sample size especially because at the beginning of the year the teams usually don’t play the teams in their conference.

Remember, my system is not my opinion at all. Not one iota. I am ONLY basing these players on their stats and where they played ball. Personally I may like Wall better, I may not but either way, my bias’ do not influence the scores since it’s purely based on numbers.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dalt, your Draft Rankings is one of the Top analysis pieces every year, Bravo

On this one I only have one complaint, in that you didn’t include Norris Cole.

And, could you post where stars, starters, and role players usually rank. Is 95+ star potential? Is under 85 not worthy of a lottery pick? Something like that. Thanks, and again well done.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jun 21, 2011 2:23 PM PDT reply actions  

I found it on his post from two years ago

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/6/21/920247/2009-nba-draft-dalt99-system

Score descriptions: Before the list, here is a description of what each player score represents based on their college stats:

100+: Superstar/MVP potential – The best players of all time. These are the franchise players that will be the ones you hear in the MVP talk at the end of the year. Shaq (105), Dr. J. (104), Olajuwon (103.5), Michael Jordan (102.5), Allen Iverson (102.5), Charles Barkley (100.5) and Chris Paul (100) are among the players to score in this group.

98-100: All-Star/Superstar potential – Players in this rank will usually become multiple all-stars and sometimes even superstars. Kevin Durant (99), Scottie Pippen (99), Chris Webber (99) and Clyde Drexler (99) are among the players to score in this group.

96-98: All-Star potential – Players in this rank will usually become multiple all-stars but rarely all-star starters. Paul Pierce (97.5), Elton Brand (97.5), Carlos Boozer (97) Brandon Roy (96.5) and Mitch Richmond (96) are among the players to score in this group.

93-96: Solid Starter/All-Star potential – A player in this rank should be a solid starter for his whole career and will usually make at least one appearance as an all-star at some point in his career. Rasheed Wallace (96), Carmelo Anthony (96), Mike Bibby (95.5), Al Horford (95.5), Rajon Rondo (93.5) and Gerald Wallace (93) are among the players to score in this group.

90-93: Solid Starter potential – The backbone of the NBA. These players usually won’t make it to an all-star game but they should have solid NBA careers. Danny Granger (92.5), Ben Gordon (92), Lionel Simmons (91.5), Kevin Martin (91), Rodney Stuckey (91), Spencer Hawes (91) and Paul Millsap (90) are among the players to score in this group.

86-90: Fringe Starter/Solid Starter potential – The elite of the NBA bench players. These players will usually be the first players off the bench for good teams or solid starters on poorer teams without a star at the position they play. Troy Murphy (90), Marcus Camby (89.5), Jason Thompson (89), Ike Diogu (88.5), Marc Gasol (88.5), John Salmons (87.5), Leon Powe (87) and Francisco Garcia (86.5) are among the players to score in this group.

82-86: 6th Man/Fringe Starter potential – The lunch pail types of the NBA. These players are the backups to the starters and will usually start about 25% of the time in their career. They are usually good players with limitations or average players that excel in a specific area. They may be starters on a poor team (such as Corey Brewer, 84.5), on a team that needs that player’s special skill (such as Earl Watson, 84.5) or because they are filling in for an injured starter. Carl Landry (84.5), Renaldo Balkman (84), Brandon Bass (83) and Channing Frye (82.5) are among the players to score in this group.

77-82: Career Reserve/6th Man potential – These are the energy guys of the NBA. These players almost never become solid starters in the NBA. About half scoring in this rank will be out of the league in 3 years while the other half will be able to find a team to stick with and have a long career bringing some needed energy off the bench. Bobby Jackson (81.5), Kenny Thomas (81.5), Trevor Ariza (81), Daniel Gibson (79.5) and Eddie House (79.5) are among the players to score in this group.

72-77: Career Reserve potential – These are the specialists of the NBA. About only 5% of players from this rank go on to start more than 10% of NBA games they play in and over half never even make it to sign a contract. Most of the players who score in this rank that go on to have long careers in the NBA are specialists – players that excel in a key area that a team might look for to fill holes or to use in certain situations such as a 3-pt marksman (JJ Redick, 73.5 and Steve Novak, 72), a shot blocker (Brian Skinner, 75.5), a banger/toughman (Eduardo Najera, 75.5) or a defensive specialist such as Randy Brown (74). Lawrence Funderburke (76.5), Justin Williams (76.5), Dahntay Jones (73.5) and Mikki Moore (72) are among the players to score in this group.

67-72: 12th Man/Career Reserve potential – The bench warmers and injured reserve of the NBA. Over 90% of players ranked in this group never sign an NBA contract. Similar to the rank above, the only players that make a long NBA career are specialists or the hustle/scrappers. Mateen Cleaves (71), Maurice Evans (69.5), Ronnie Price (68.5) and Patrick Ewing Jr. (67) are among the players to score in this group.

62-67: Fringe Player/12th Man potential – Only a handful of college players that find themselves in this rank have ever played a handful of games in the NBA. Duane Causwell (64), Daniel Ewing (64.5), Ryan Hollins (64.5) and Jermareo Davidson (63.5) are among the very few in this rank that have made it onto an NBA court.

0-62: Should Go Undrafted – A player in this range should not be drafted. Any GM that does draft someone in this rank should be punished.

"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11

by otis29 on Jun 21, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah Dalt, I was curious abot Norris Cole too

A cursory glance shows his FG% is low and STLs are good. Interested in what your projections say about him.

by SPTSJUNKIE on Jun 21, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Norris Cole

Oops forgot to include him. He scored an 83.5. As a senior he stacks up very well with the other point guards statistically except for one thing – he played in the Horizon League. Not a tough league except for Butler. The competition was MUCH weaker than what Irving, Kemba Walker or Knight faced. Even Fredette faced a tougher class. Just for fun, let’s compare him to another smaller market college point guard of the past, Steve Nash:
Cole: FG%-43.9, 3-pt%-34.2, A/TO-1.97, Steals/40-2.48, Assist Score-36.2, PPG/40-24.3 on 17.8 shots, FTA/40-8.3
Nash:FG%-44.4, 3-pt%-45.4, A/TO-1.54, Steals/40-2.13, Assist Score-40.5, PPG/40-25.0 on 16.4 shots, FTA/40-7.7

The West Coast Conference that Nash played in was twice as tough (score-wise) than the Horizon League is today. One of the big differences is the 3-pt percentage. 26% of Cole’s shots were threes, while a whopping 50% of Nash’s were the deep ball. To still beat Cole in FG% by doing that is impressive. Also, Nash got the “gold standard” in assist score. Norris Cole could become a good backup but he needs to improve his shooting just a bit at the NBA level.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

FINALLY!!!

I’ve been looking forward to this for about a month now. Thanks for the post, Dalt!

by CloudyEyes on Jun 21, 2011 3:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Well, it’s been an especially busy year for me, preparing for my first marriage in three months…

How often do you get married?

by The Guy on the Couch on Jun 21, 2011 3:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Three months from now

Yah, I kinda rushed through my proofread this morning.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jun 21, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

And through that previous comment apparently.

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Jun 22, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haven't even read yet... auto rec'd

All I have to say is.. FINALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"

by lodisacfan on Jun 21, 2011 3:47 PM PDT reply actions  

always a great read!

thx for all the hard work!
(and rec’d!)

by Gunrock on Jun 21, 2011 4:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Rec'd. I've been waiting for this

Always look forward to your stuff, Dalt.

For the uninitiated, check out his ratings in years past – as good as any projection I’ve ever come across.

"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken

by thelettere on Jun 21, 2011 7:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I look forward to these every year

Awesome stuff. Thank you for all of the time and effort you put into your system, and thank you for sharing it with us. It is a highlight every single season. Rec’d, of course.

In most polarizing arguments, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.

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Author of Inside-Out Game

by Exhibit G on Jun 22, 2011 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

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