Did Jason Thompson Really Get Better As Season Went On?
by Tom Ziller on Jun 9, 2011 7:12 AM PDT
in Commentary
Email
PrintThere's a pretty consistent sentiment that Jason Thompson picked up the pieces from a 2010-11 season for the Sacramento Kings that started poorly, and that he excelled in the last half of the campaign. J.T., you'll remember, was a welcomed monster as a rookie, a massive upgrade over Mikki Moore and a welcome antidote for our passive, brittle frontcourt. Thompson isn't perfect as a big man, but he covered up a lot of holes when he arrived.
As the team has progressed, the frontcourt around him has improved; there's little question he was the fourth-best big man on the roster last year, and is the third now if Samuel Dalembert is retained. But despite of turning from salve to obvious back-up, he's a valued member of the rotation. I think we as Kings fans actually rate him pretty fairly: we know he's not an All-Star, we know he's not a scrub. He's just a solid rotation player.
Some are hoping for more, and think his performance at season's end dictate improvement. But was that improvement real?
If you look at the monthly splits for J.T., you wouldn't think there was actually much improvement going on.
December was every bit as solid as March, with 10 points and seven rebounds a game. This is to say that neither is really spectacular; if you were disappointed in J.T. by the end of December, it's hard to look at these splits and understand why you'd be happy with J.T. by the end of March. Ten points and seven rebounds is 10 points and seven rebounds, right?
But a huge factor in J.T.'s tenure has been consistency. Did that improve over the course of the season? If so, it'd be hard to see it in monthly splits. We need to look at game-by-game data. So let's do that.
The early bits of the season for J.T. was boom or bust: he had some lovely games -- the high point a 22-14 outburst against the Wizards -- and a set of awful, invisible nights. As the season wore on, the busts were so bad, the booms weren't so great ... but everything normalized. By the end of the season, he gave a predictable, unspectacular but valuable performance every night.
There's a question of what you want from your third big man -- assuming the Kings keep Sam or acquire a starting big man to pair with DeMarcus Cousins, which is my overriding assumption on what the Kings will do. Do you want a third big man prone to spectacular outbursts paced by truly invisible games? Or do you want a steady diet of unspectacular but predictable box scores? The Kings won more down the stretch for reasons outside of Jason Thompson -- ask Marcus Thornton, Cousins' consistency and Tyreke Evans' return from injury. But there's at least the sentiment around here that the steady, unspectacular production is preferred to the boom-bust cycle. That looks like what we'll be getting from J.T. going forward ... if his new-found consistency is, uh, consistent.
132 comments
|
5 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Great stuff
I think consistency is huge for a bench player. You bring him in to give you brief spurts of solid play. Like a closer in baseball. If he was a 20-10 guy every night, he wouldn’t be a bench guy. But, just like a closer, you can’t have a lot of spectacular failures or you start looking elsewhere. I am very happy with JT as our 3rd or 4th big off the bench going forward. I think he’ll be relatively cheap to keep down the road and he has a pretty good attitude,
Quick question. What exactly is the second table tracking? At first I thought it was JT’s points. But don’t know how you get negative points in a game.
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
It's Gamescore
PTS + 0.4 * FG – 0.7 * FGA – 0.4*(FTA – FT) + 0.7 * ORB + 0.3 * DRB + STL + 0.7 * AST + 0.7 * BLK – 0.4 * PF – TOV.
It's a Hollinger formula
essentially a watered down version of PER for single games.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Okay thanks. That makes sense.
Wasn’t familiar with that one.
[THIS SPACE RENTED]
Burkle for President. KJ for VP.
what it reminds me of
the adjustment period that odom took when he went to the bench…i expect the “goon squad” (esp JT) to come out with a lot of energy next year
J.UST E.NJOY T.HIS S.HIT
I DID SLEEP WITH @paugasol woman!!!
To be honest.
I feel as though becoming consistent is a vast improvement for JT. All we can ask from our big of the bench is that.
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
now if he would
just stop complaining to the refs we would be good
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
He was a lot quieter down the stretch on that as well
One of the reasons I think we perceived he was looking so much better.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah i know.
just thought i would take my shot while i could
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
probably saw how bad demarcus looks when he complains and made him change how much he did himself
by Loyalty2Royalty on Jun 9, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
probably
He did seem to grow up quite a bit
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
JT's a nice dude...
I want to know why he can’t make tip-in’s, layups, etc… if he rebounds in the paint he will flail miss after miss… it’s uncanny actually…front of the rim, off the backboard, side of the rim, heel of the iron… just uncanny. Is it nervousness? Lack of concentration? Is it related to his behavior when he’s called for a foul? Hitting himself in the face, acting like a child… To be honest I’d like to see him traded… I think his value on the market is higher than his actual worth and The Kings could get a great asset or two for him. Just my opinion.
That's not what I saw the last month of the season
Jason is hard on himself, and I don’t really have a problem with that. And according to 82games.com, he had an eFG% of .694 as an inside player. Dally was at .537 and Cousins was .588. While it could be my eyeballs playing tricks on me, but it seemed he was converting much better around the basket later in the season.
Bottom line is he’s a fairly talented big who plays hard and is a great teammate – and he doesn’t make a lot of money. I’d rather they hang onto him, and I’m hoping they will re-sign Dalembert so we can keep this frontcourt together a while longer.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
It also seemed that he was playing with more confidence
On top of the rebounding and shots around the basket, he was hitting his mid range jumper with no hesitation. I’m sure PW encouraged him to take those shots and it’s actually something that he can look for. I also think that he can still improve offensively and it would be wrong to think that we’ve gotten all that we can out of him. Another great thing about JT is that he can guard the 4 and the 5, and probably some 3’s if needed. He’s just a great guy to have who can do a lot of different things for the team. I could see him in a few years getting at least 25-30 min per game on a good playoff team.
I agree. I think he also does some things that don't show up in the stats column.
But still, if the guy can get a double double in 30 mins everynight and do the intangibles that make a difference (and he’s almost 7-feet tall!), you keep him around.
Check out my comedy website, where you can access video clips of my stand-up @ www.danielhumbarger.com
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
He needs to use the backboard more when he's in close!
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Everybody does.
The whole league largely ignores the backboard.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Why?!
I use the backboard all the time, it makes it so much easier in close. Is it a fashion thing? Isn’t Tim Duncan every big man’s idol?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd think...
Anything angled within 12 feet should be off the backboard.
When I play, other than the fact I have no hops, I always layup off the backboard. It takes another step and gives the defense extra time, but i never clank it off the back of the iron and out. That’s hilarious to see.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Hated backboards
because they were all so different. Once I went fulltime indoors they came in handy at times but I was programmed to avoid them.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
Pretty sure they're standard in the NBA
I could be wrong
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Oddly, I didn't make the NBA!
It started to fall apart for me when I didn’t get to 6’7".
Completely fell apart when I found out I sucked.
I would like to thank all of you for the outpouring of support during my time of need. I proudly, and with great relief, announce that my C is now working on my laptop and any errors from now on are due to my inabilty to proofread. I use to proofread my stuff, but it began lowering my self esteem,
I have found it hard to sound intelligent if I think while I key. So in summary ; the worse the keying the smarter my comment. The proceeds from the HereWeFixTheC car wash have been forwarded to HereWeBuild . Thanks.
by ElRonToro on Jun 9, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
But they aren't in the playgrounds
especially the poorer areas where many of the players grow up. It’s an interesting theory.
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 10, 2011 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Missed tips are frustrating...
but I have to remind myself that Jason had the highest FG% on the team in 10-11. Surprisingly.
Dude needs to learn how to shoot a free throw though. 60% on the season is not gonna get it done.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
I know, that pisses me off
and he went out of his way before the season to talk about how important hitting FTs was to winning 5-6 more games.
I still agree with pre-season JT.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A big part of it for me..
…was that JT had a TS% of 62% in April (Granted it was 8 games). For the first time in his career, he’d shown he can make the most out of what he did do. That was something we had rarely seen from JT up to that point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I love JT on this team!!!
He is the perfect 3rd big! thought we gotta find our number 2 big…..JT can come off the bench and play 4 or the 5, can rebound shoot, hit a Jumper; He works hard and some times it’s heart breaking to see him miss tip-ins and very makable shots…..but one can only hope he can get better…and if he could avg. 15 a game i’d be happy
One thing that isn't measured in these graphs
is his defense, especially team defense, which definitely improved as the season went along.
Also I just saw via Basketball Reference that JT’s middle name is Carlton. I feel like we should have known that from the start.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jun 9, 2011 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Agreed, but the offensive improvement is also noteworthy and I don't care about the stats so much
Actually, I don’t think those stats do JT justice. And it was not just about his consistency. He developed new skills that he did not have. Two years ago he drove me mad because he could not catch the ball around the rim and just put it in the hole. He had to dribble at least once and give defenders time to close in. He had no low post game whatsoever.
Now he does have a low post game. He catches and puts it in. He even (gasp) dunks, and yes I did gasp when I saw him do it. He even has a spin move and can post. Where he just could not at all.
So, it is not so much his stats as it is his displayed skills and the fact that there was such a huge leap from none to some pretty nice ones. Not All-Star by any means, but yes quite solid and the fact that he has shown this develop means that he may even have more upside to reach.
I will take the consistent stats, but my real interest is his consistent development.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
If someone has synergy I would love to see them back this up
because I don’t recall, other than going on a nice run with the jump shot for a bit there, him picking up new skills but just making more of the same shots. To me his defense looked a bit more sustainable then the offense.
I think his ability on defense got better
but he also started making shots that he was normally missing in the past from what I saw. I don’t really remember any new moves either.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
JT is Solid
Jt is very solid, when I hear trade talks I ask why. He is young, plays very good D, good rebounder and has good mid range shot. When he gets the minutes very solid role player.
I do not agree that he is good around the basket.
When he learns not to press close to basket and makes the easy ones his numbers will go way up.
Great post!
There is a reason so many other blog's members
covet him. He could start at Center on a lot of teams and would be a huge upgrade off the bench on many more.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Players like JT are a dime a dozen
Rotational bigs with limited upside are not a rarity in the NBA. It’s fun, because fans of many teams want to believe their role players will blossom into something they are not, but that rarely happens. As a wolves fan, our JT is Anthonty Tolliver. AT and JT had nearly identical seasons last year at the same age and same experience level. AT was signed last off-season for $4 Million over 2 years. This just shows IMO that JT is easily replaceable if need be.
Now I know this article was about whether JT turned the corner, but I think it’s asking alot to try and envision a 25 year old becoming something more than he already is, after three years of heavy minutes. After next season, JT’s qualifying offer will be over $4 Million. I would think if you could get value for him this offseason, it would be time to deal as he’s easily replaceable and becomes less valuable with his escalating salary and the subsequent need to extend him. If I’m Petrie, I probably take the money I could save on sending JT packing to resign Dalembert and get somebody from the street to be a rotiational big.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
by Ebomb on Jun 9, 2011 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
30 minutes of pretty dependable play and hustle
is a lot more than just a ‘rotational big’. Lot’s of teams would love to have him.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hard to argue with statements like “Lot’s of teams would love to have him” as it’s impossible to support or refute. I’m glad you are happy with him as a King and you feel good about his value.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Aykis polled all the other blogs
He was at the top of thier lists. Those were just the members/editors of course, not the GMs, but it does reveal that perhaps our lack of wins the last few years and our fan frustration has skewed some perspective.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
What was the poll question? Top of their list for what?
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
As a player that they would most like to trade for on the roster
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
He's talking about the Not-So-Asinine Trade Post
There are links on the front page in the Featured Stories section.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Pretty sure that was out of Kings players though wasn't it?
Heck Hawes was high on the list the year before
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I was unaware there was an Anthony Tolliver or JT on the street right now
I get that fans of many teams want to believe their role players will blossom into something they are not but I am struggling to find where in this post it says JT is likely anything more than a third big man. I also don’t even know what other players are out there so we could get value for him in a trade anyway. Basically this confuses me greatly.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, let me elaborate
Similar players to JT that will be free agents
- Kwame Brown
- Nazr Mohammed
- Jonas Jerebko
- Chris Wilcox
- Chuck Hayes
- Josh McRoberts
- Shelden Williams
You could sign any of these guys, I’d argue, and get similar production from them. This isn’t accounting for other players who are restricted free agents, like Tolliver was lasy year, who could get an offer. Cousins’ Minutes should hopefully increase and I did qualify my comments with resigning Dalembert.
My point here was that if someone still values JT around the league as having untapped potential and is willing to offer value for his services in a deal that makes sense for the Kings, it may be time to trade him as you could find similar production on the free agent market, the d-league, or from the international game. PF is the most productive position in the league right now and I’d argue, has the greatest supply of players who can play the position.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
by Ebomb on Jun 9, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's great and all
but considering the Kings shopped JT last year around and nobody was buying, I dunno what to tell you. The Kings could possibly be down to JT, Whiteside, and Darnell Jackson being their bigs off the bench next year. As much as I would love to trade JT for the current nothing players available, I would think I would like to keep at least some depth on the bench up front unless we get really lucky in the draft. I’ll tell you what though, the day Daryl Morey decides to free base and offer Lowry for JT, damn I hope the Kings jump all over that in a second.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
If no one wants to trade for JT as a part of any deal, then obviously my comments don’t apply to such a situation. Bench depth isn’t great right now, I agree; however, you also have #7, a 2nd round pick, and money to spend in Free Agency. Surely the Kings could add other players to that bigs off the bench list you recited.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Wally
what makes you say the statement “the Kings shopped JT around and nobody was buying”? Is that your opinion or do you have some research or articles that state that?
Last year there were rumors
of a Thompson for Teague swap.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Started by Atlanta
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Well,
You could sign any of these guys, I’d argue, and get similar production from them.
Yes, you could argue it I guess but. . . .
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously?
Sheldon Williams? Kwame? Nazr? Wilcox?
Sheldon has had multiple chances and has never put up consistant numbers, Kwame and Nazr at 30 are finally close to his numbers and don’t provide anything close to the energy.
I don’t want to confuse you with facts or history or statistics or anything though . . .
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
personally I will never expect JT to do much better then most of those guys long term
although yes younger and at least has the chance to be less of a dolt defensively than Wilcox and I would be terrified of Kwame’s attitude. Don’t trust Sheldon Williams numbers in NY and considering his past here would say no way.
Josh McRoberts is fair. Jerebo is a bit of a risk with the injury.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Jerebko has proven nothing so far
ability to stay on the court is more than a minor factor.
So there’s one guy on that list that we could just ‘get’ to equally replace JT.
I’d say he’s not that easily replacable then.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Especially when you factor in team chemistry.
In fact, even if he’s slightly worse than all those bigs, the team loves him. Getting another player for 1 more PPG and .5 more RBS isn’t worth the change.
That said, He’s better than those guys IMO.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying you over pay him in two years
or that he’s not replaceable with the right guy (Bismack! :-), but he’s a solid 3rd big and lots of team would like a solid #1 or #2 – let alone a #3.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think my opinions are unreasonable
Although I would love to hear you tell me why they unreasonable rather than link me to a lame audio clip.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Lets compare that group of players
Last season Here
Thompson has the lowest WS/48, 2nd lowest TS%, lowest TRB%, 2nd lowest Block%, 2nd highest TO%, etc. I guess if you think his “energy” provides this huge advantage, that’s certainly something that isn’t reflected in statistical produciton.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Let's talk after this coming season.
With JT getting regular rotation minutes he will have a chance to show more. And we don’t even know that we are going to be re-signing Dalembert yet so this is pre-mature for a lot of reasons.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
JT has played 6400 Minutes in the NBA
I definitely don’t think regular rotation minutes are the problem. Agree on Dalembert. If you don’t resign Dalembert, you need bodies.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
JT is a glue guy. These sorts of guys have to be given a bit of added value as well
Also, the coaching staff call him ’Iron man" cause he is just so damned healthy and dependable. He broke his back and was only out for a short while. He truly is the kind of player with the kind of ethics you want to have on your team.
Also, he has not reached his upside yet. He did show new skills around the basket last year. Another year to see how far he can go and to solidify the team is easy. He is cheap and not that easily replaced.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
This argument makes us sound too homerific.
Just sayin.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I am just repeating what comes out of the team.
Listen to JR talk about his development and you will hear about how much he has improved.
If you follow things like JT going oversees to watch Omri’s game and hang out with him you will see that he is a unifying influence in the lockerroom.
The broken back speaks for itself and by all accounts from the coaching staff JT is really hard to fatigue. He is like the energizer bunny in that he has huge stamina.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Jun 9, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
what he said here
who knows, he could very well not show more for all we know but still, it’s highly unlikely we are getting much in return for JT and we need the warm bodies up front
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
We finally have a good rotation with Cousins, Dalembert, and JT... and we let that go?
Our frontline has sucked, is finally looking up, and it is time to trade away a part of that? This really is short sighted.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
by MustangMBS on Jun 9, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, my thoughts as well
After JT’s contract expires, he’s not going to cost a huge amount to retain and he’s productive.
Unless he’s a “must have” piece for another team in a bigger deal, I’m not sure why he shouldn’t be here as a third big for the ongoing future.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
JT is a below average player at the easiest position to fill in the NBA, the whole point of my posts is that he is entirely replaceable, so if dealing him helps improve other areas of the team, there is no reason to fear that a replacement for his services couldn’t be easily found on the open market.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Most rotational bench guys are replaceable, especially on 24 win teams
No kidding. It’s a huge “if” to suggest we are going to get someone in a trade to help improve in other areas. The big fear ain’t “oh no he is irreplaceable” it’s “we got a guy who can’t crack the rotation for JT and now gotta to replace that spot too.”
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't dig a hole in your line up cause you think you can fill another one
Keep the line up you have intact and fill hole without creating another one. And bigs are not the easiest position to fill if they are any good. That is why decent bigs get so much more money for being comparably good. And I seriously think you are undervaluing JT.
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
bench blob
did you change your screenname and not tell me!?!?
Where's my pie
by TheFifthMookie on Jun 9, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
So, you're saying
that not every big man is manna from heaven?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
David Kahn.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jun 9, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much all that needs to be said
Sucks when the GM of your favorite team becomes a punchline, but it is what it is.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
I disagree with how you value rotational bigs. Maybe big bodies are a dime a dozen but big bodies that a team can insert into the game and get a consistent contribution are coveted. Every February at the trade deadline at least two contenders are on the hunt to find a rotational big which they believe will put them over the top. If these guys could be found off the street there wouldn’t be an annual bidding war.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
personally I think the whole big men a dime a dozen thing is a bit of a myth
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
really good ones are hard to find but plently of average ones
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Plenty of Average ones, which is my point. Obviously Really Good big men aren’t a dime a dozen. But right now its much harder to find a Shooting Guard or Small Forward on the open market than it is to find a Power Forward.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
Let me redirect
Plenty of bad ones, which is my point. Even average big men are some what rare and a hot commodity.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
I agree with you
and the idea that Sheldon Williams or Chris Wilcox or Kwame Brown would fit in on this team and be as productive as JT is in my opinion ridiculous. There is quite a bit more to a game than someones PER or reb/48 avg. A lot of things do not show up in the box score, hustle being one of them, being able to keep the ball moving on offense, attitude, boxing out, etc. It might be damning him with faint praise, but there are not a lot of third bigs I would switch JT for. The fact that some might think those players interchangeable is just being contrary for the sake of debate. I challenge the fact that it seems to be canon that he was our fourth best big to start the year. Landry couldn’t guard anyone, was a black hole on offense, and rebounded as well as Mike Bibby. His minutes were allotted based on character and past performance, not on his consistent play.
I love JT...
But what I can’t stand about him is the fact he always seems to get the ball smacked out of his hands around the rim! Maybe I am spoiled because of CWebb and now DMC, both of who were blessed with amazing hands.
Must not happen that much
I’d imagine that would result in plenty of turnovers. But neither Jason nor C-Webb (until his abbreviated last season in Golden State) had a turnover percentage remotely close to DeMarcus’ rate last season.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Travels, offensive fouls
and JT was never asked to run the halfcourt offense.
Just sayin’.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
That logic seems a bit inverted to me
Since we are talking about turnover percentage – if JT was the current butter-fingered version of Mikki Moore AND he wasn’t handling the ball as often as DMC, wouldn’t his turnover percentage be higher?
Fewer possessions/same number of turnovers (theoretically) = higher turnover percentage.
Just sayin’.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
?
Why is every PG usually among the team leaders in TOs?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
dazzle me with stats if you have them
while judging the rookie season of a big man who was asked to run more of the offense than young big man I can think of on any team in many years.
I agree the Jury is out but I was nothing but encouraged.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, hard to find an exact comp recently to DMC - a big in their rookie season expected to facilitate a bit
Might have to go to a guy like Andrew Bogut? Assist % of 13.4 to turnover % of 15.3.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
That's who I was thinking of
and I think Cousins will/could be quite a bit better long term. Depends on him.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me put it this way
If we look at DeMarcus’ assist % versus turnover %, we get 14.7 to 18.5.
A guy like John Wall (just taking a guard drafted in the same year as DMC who is a “facilitator”) – 36.0 to 18.6.
Or heck, we can look at Reke – 26.1 to 13.6 in his rookie season.
I guess I can see the argument that DMC should have a higher number of turnovers since he “facilitates” the offense a lot. But he should have a corresponding assist rate as well, right? Or maybe he just shouldn’t be facilitating the offense?
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
You'll have to ask PW
Or maybe he just shouldn’t be facilitating the offense?
But I think the future payoff could be well worth it, we’ll see.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't expect his assist rate to be too much higher or his turnover rate to be much lower...
Because every time he gets the ball in the post, the rest of the team just stands around. If we had more off the ball movement, I think we would see his assist rate go up significantly.
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
I heard the same thing about Tyreke the year before (the "standing around" argument)
But his assist rate looked pretty good comparatively.
Anyways, this has wandered way off tangent. My original point was that the numbers don’t seem to back up the idea that JT doesn’t handle himself well around the basket.
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
JT
Agreed. I have always liked JT. He takes so much flak for his boneheaded plays, but does a lot of little things the right way. Looking at his season stats, I am not all too concerned about his FG% or Turnover rate, although both can always be improved upon.
I would love to see JT continue to work on his defense (~1BPG would be a vast improvement), free throw percentage (60%=BAD!), and offensive tenacity (he should be scoring 4-6 points off offensive rebounds/game, and I would love to see him around 12-14ppg).
"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."
It happens but usually does not result in a turnover for JT though. He often regathers and that is when a lot of his off balance week shots come from or the ball just goes out of bounds after the other player poked it.
Where JT’s turnovers usually come is from his passing
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Lower turnover percentage/much higher effective field goal percentage in the paint
I’d say JT is doing just fine in those areas, if the data is to be believed.
And I wasn’t trying to diminish DMC, just saying that the numbers don’t seem to bear out some of the complaints on JT (can’t finish, etc.)
"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11
Didn't say nor imply JT had a high turnover percentage
And yes JT’s field goal percenate at the rim and within 10 feet are in fact higher than league average for powerforwards and centers.
by wallywagon11 on Jun 9, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
No shit
JIMMER! (-:
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jun 9, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
"Throw it down bigman"
JT is still showing improvement, is a good teammate and comes relatively cheap. As has been said above he is also versatile. He needs to stay. I think him knowing what his role is now helped him become more consistent.
JT's a 4 year College player and 1st round pick
And has got good minutes on a bad team so I understand how some would expect more. That said he’s above average for a rotation big. He’s efficient and still getting better. If he could stop doing that quick one dribble as soon as he catches the ball down low and go straight at the rim with it instead he’d have more buckets. Doing that quick one dribble thing gives the defenders more time to challenge the shot. Drives me crazy
So it's settled then
Thompson rates comfortably amongst most 3rd bigs in the league, though at a reduced price, which makes him a good value today, and probably a fair value when it’s time to extend him. This would mean that amongst the Kings current assets, he ranks behind Evans, Cousins and Casspi when it comes to value relative to contract (not including Thornton, as his contract is to be determined). If he were included in any trade, he would be viewed as a trade asset and not a liability.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 9, 2011 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
you forgot the stat that JT dominates the most
MSWMO
(minutes spent with mouth open) i wonder if there is something physically hindering JT from closing his mouth
Aren't you supposed to inhale through your nose
and exhale through the mouth when you’e exercizing?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
it's funny
my personal favorite from January of 2010
JT reminds me of a pug
his mouth is always open
by kingme on Jan 16, 2010 5:34 PM PST
Symptomatic of nasal swelling or obstruction, such as allergies
I didn't major in Common F-cking Sense, but ...
I assume this is a reply fail to Otis?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jun 9, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
JT is two hands away from being a legit starting PF
He gets his hands on so many basketballs, but can’t control the ball once he gets his hands on it. JT is a solid defender and is a pretty athletic big and if you gave him half of the hands that DMC has, he could get you a double-double.
"I had 2 laugh at ths..I was playing my oldest son Zaire on his nerf rim & he dunked & said Gibson while screaming..L2MS Kids u gotta luv em" - D.Wade on Twitter
My biggest gripe with JT has always been his low post offense
That’s still an issue, but not a deal breaker. My other gripe was him bitching and whining when he doesn’t get calls instead of getting back on defense. He’s gotten better at that. He is what he is: A good big off the bench. I think the problem with him in the eyes of most fans is that (fairly or unfairly) his rookie season gave us a lot to look forward to and the expectations for him shot up to unreasonable heights. Some of us had unrealistic visions of JT turning into an All Star. Some of us envisioned him becoming a solid double/double machine. Truth is, he is neither.
MexicAN AmericAN VegAN
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Sactown Royalty
Related FanShots on Sactown Royalty
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
