Looking Ahead: What Kings' Needs Will Arise In 2012?
Aykis16 did superlative work breaking down free agent options at each position this week. Here are some quick links to recap:
The team will likely target a center ... and probably not a whole lot else in free agency. For the 2011-12 season, adding a center would fill up the rotation quite a bit: four heavy-minutes bigs in [new center], DeMarcus Cousins, J.J. Hickson and Jason Thompson, two heavy-minutes small forwards in John Salmons and Francisco Garcia, and three major-minutes guards in Tyreke Evans, Marcus Thornton (under the assumption he's retained) and Jimmer Fredette. Donte Greene and Isaiah Thomas are the leading candidates for extra minutes on the wing and in the backcourt, though the addition of another point guard wouldn't be a surprise. Tyler Honeycutt and Hassan Whiteside aren't likely to figure heavily early, barring injury.
But who's back in 2012-13? What positions do the Kings need to keep an eye on going forward?
THE POWER FORWARDS
Cousins is locked up for a while, but Hickson and Thompson can both become restricted free agents -- assuming restricted free agency exists -- in one year. Under current rules, the Kings could grant early extensions (as they did with Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia) before the season starts. That worked really well in Martin's case; he would have been more expensive after his fourth season than he was after his third. It didn't really work out in Garcia's case. I don't think you can extend Hickson before seeing how he plays with Evans and Cousins. I'm not sure you can extend Thompson before determining how Hickson fits.
So chances are that both players will reach restricted free agency next offseason. How they play this season will obviously determine whether either reaches Thornton, must-resign status, or not. But keep in mind that even if the Kings sign a big-money center once the lockout ends, they will only have two rotation-worthy big men under contract for 2012-13. The team has to be prepared to pay to keep Hickson, J.T. or both, or find another player or players (depending on Whiteside, a bit) to fill in going forward.
THE SMALL FORWARDS
The Kings' four guards (including Thornton) have an average age of 22. The Kings' four big men have an average age of 22. The Kings' four small forwards -- including the 21-year-old Tyler Honeycutt -- have an average age of 26. Salmons is 31, Garcia is 29.
If you believe in Donte Greene, you aren't worried ... though Donte Greene is on the same path as Thompson and Hickson: he'll be a restricted free agent in 2012, barring a completely unexpected extension. Salmons and Garcia are locked up for the 2012-13 season, but you do have to question as what point Salmons will be become untenable as starter. A team that is serious about getting to the playoffs in 2013 or so can't have a 31-year-old Francisco Garcia as a starting small forward, can it? (My best guess: it can, but only if the other four starters and one bench guy are regularly winning their match-up.)
Honeycutt is a ways away. He's basically Donte Greene Part II.
THE GUARDS
Evans is under contract for two more seasons; he'll be eligible for an early extension in 2012, but all indications are that the league wants to strengthen a team's ability to keep its stars, so I'm not worried about losing Tyreke in 2013. Jimmer is under contract for four years. No worries. Thornton should be locked into at least a three- or four-year deal, so no worries.
The backcourt? The only worry is whether it will work. Will Jimmer work in the NBA? Can he play with Tyreke effectively? Can he play with Thornton effectively? Can Tyreke and Thornton play together effectively? If not, needs -- most likely a pass-first point guard -- could arise by 2012. But this is a huge 'remain-to-be-seen'.
COACH
Paul Westphal's contract expires in 2012. What will it take to get an extension? I don't think 30 wins gets Westphal a new deal. Thirty-five might. One consistent facet of Westphal's reign has been wins over everything. Development, exploration, trying new things -- it all takes a backseat to wins. You can judge the success or impact of that elsewhere, but just know that nothing is going to change in '11-12. Westphal is trying to win more games than he has with this team. That's why John Salmons will be starting. That's why Francisco Garcia is playing ahead of Donte Greene. Wins. Now.
ASSESSMENT
If things work as the Kings believe they will work, the 2012 offseason will be dedicated to re-signing their own free agents: Hickson, Thompson and Greene. If Salmons/Garcia don't fill the small forward spot, the team could end up dedicating resources to finding a solution there. If the backcourt shows signs of fissure, a point guard could be a target. Depending on how the season goes, the first order of business in the 2012 offseason could be finding a coach.
Regardless, it really does look like this 2011 offseason -- whenever it resumes -- is the big splash for the Sacramento Kings. Let's hope it works.
(Note: I purposely neglected the specter of midseason deals. Obviously, Geoff Petrie is not shy about shaking things up midstream. If something isn't working by February, the team could very well get an early shake-up.)
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Regarding JT
I think that if you can sign him to a nice 5-6 million a year extension you do it. That contract would be easily movable if need be, and for a man of his size and work ethic, that’s a great deal. Jason might not accept it however, as there probably is a fair chance he could get more in the open market, even with the Restricted label.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
As for Westphal
I don’t think 35 cuts it either, especially if the Kings make a big free agent splash at Center. He’d have a healthy Tyreke Evans, a (hopefully) consistent wing rotation for the first time in Sacramento, a legitimate Center, a (hopefully) improved DeMarcus Cousins, another promising big in Hickson, and another go to option in Marcus Thornton. Jimmer’s an unknown entity, but he also was brought in for his ability to make an impact now.
I think that if he has a relatively healthy team, he’ll need to win somewhere near 40 wins to keep his job, not necessarily playoffs, but around a .500 pace. If he’s on an even better pace than that midway through the season (like the Kings are in the playoff hunt or something), I could see him getting an early extension, but I doubt that will happen (West is still a very deep conference).
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jul 16, 2011 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fair or not I agree with you Aykis.
If we sign one of the big name centers in free agency I think all the fans, coaches, players, and front office will be thinking playoffs. It is not easy to make the playoffs in the west but if the Kings do not finish at or above 500 this year they will have find a new coach.
As much as I want the kings to make the playoffs next year
I really don’t want to lose our draft pick next year. I know it’s greedy, but next years draft looks stacked. You never know in the lottery either, Stern could decide to rig the draft in our favor for once. In the end though, I just want our team to be competitive and coheasive all year. As much as it would suck if the whole season was lost next year, I wonder if we would get the dame draft pick as last year.
by elSAVinator on Jul 16, 2011 8:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If we do lock up a quality Center via FA
And JJ ends up fitting nicely with the Kings, I wonder if JT is worth a mid to late 1st rd pick to someone.
by elSAVinator on Jul 16, 2011 8:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I've seen some speculation about what happens next year with the draft if we lose the entire season
The most sensible scenario I’ve read is that the league would hold a special draft lottery with all 30 teams that would be weighted based on the team’s record over the last two or three years. That way you wouldn’t be rewarding the same team two years in a row for one bad season. This would obviously benefit the Kings.
With all do respect alSAVinator
F*ck next years draft. I’m so sick of getting screwed every single year in the draft. The goal is playoffs. If we fall short that’s fine just as long as we make a decent run.
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jul 16, 2011 11:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Initially it does seem like we get screwed...
but then we end up with Reke, DMC, and Jimmer. Not bad
by Doors Open on Jul 16, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh no we still get screwed
We just got lucky the teams in front of us made bad decisions or picked for need rather than BPA
I love beating dead horses.
by allbenji's on Jul 16, 2011 3:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
35 wins
Maybe you should put the disclaimer based upon a 82 game season. I’m not sure we are even going to get the shortened 50 game season this time around.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
I would be stunned if we have 82 games
but in a very good way
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Just saying when discussing a barometer on Westphal throw out the wins as a measurement. It should be playoffs or how close the team got to making the playoffs.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
i know sorry
just interjecting I would be shocked basically if we are not in the situation you are describing
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Westphal being judged on wins might be the case
I am not sure it would be fair if the decision was made only on that basis though.
This years’ Kings team should be the most talented we have had in years, but nothing can change the fact that it will still be filled with a lot of youth and inexperience in key positions.There is also the fact that they will be integrating several new players who may get a decent number of reserve minutes to the team, and will have to spend some time building chemistry.
I am not a fan of Westphal’s, but I wouldn’t place an arbitrary cutoff line on wins where I think he should/shouldn’t be fired before the season even begins. A lot of things can happen over the course of a season, and the youth/inexperience/chemistry factor is sometimes underrated by fans.
I can safely say
Restricted free agency will not only exist but will be further restrict player movement. The league’s problem isn’t constrained to money but also competitive balance and giving 30 teams the opportunity to compete to win a title if properly managed.
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
In regards to competitive balance
you likely aren’t winning without a Duncan, Howard, Dirk, Gasol, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Paul, or Rose. I know we have a somewhat similar situation in baseball with elite starting pitching and football with elite QBs but in basketball I think it’s even a little more extreme. Basically, because of how the game of basketball is structured with five starting players playing both ways and without as much of skill positions quite like football and more predictability of scoring affect on offense than baseball, I highly doubt you were will ever see the competitive balance you see in football or baseball just by the nature of the sport.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That
and in baseball the NYY can have a 250 million dollar payroll and turn a huge profit and the pirates can have almost no payroll and lose money.
As a result of the NBA going dark and staging a lockout I plan on saying only depressing things until the season starts. If they put out the schedule I plan to also go and sit in the Arco parking lot on nights games would have been played. I will Tivo CSN on games nights. They can't stop me. Its my team and I'll cry if I want to, cry if I want to.
I know they aren't a perfect comparison
but I am amazed how many win shares a star NBA player gets compared to the wins above replacement player that elite baseball hitters get.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
obviously more players involved in baseball it makes sense but still surprises
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
An elite hitter can only be responsible for 1/9 offensive plays
An elite basketball player can have the ball in his hands the majority of the time he’s on the court.
But then the flip side...
…The Mikki Moores of the world can screw up just about every play you run.
"Where hope goes to die"
I think that's about right value for JT right now
I’d even try to get creative with this year’s cap space like the Thunder did with Nick Collison (who I see as a slightly lesser JT). Pay a nice signing bonus upfront, then low per/year totals after that. Even with the bonus, his extension averaged less than $5 million/per. I see that as a starting extension offer to JT, now who knows whether he’ll take it…
Thanks both to TZ and Aykis for some great info which has led to great discussions
I’d like to start off by saying that if the Kings have to look for a pass-first PG in 2012, it will mean a major failure on the part of the FO and coaching staff. It will mean that they wasted a draft on Jimmer and spent money on Thornton, leaving them with 2 undersized shooters. It would also mean that the Coaching staff’s decision that they could run the offense with multiple ball handers instead of one lead playmakers, was a failure also. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if the owners (whomever they might be), lost confidence in the leadership and made changes.
As for Salmons, well he might not be the answer to the problems at SF, but I think he fills a need in the backcourt when we can’t go small with Thornton and Jimmer, and Evans is on the bench resting. I’ve never seen Salmons as the defensive player that PW obviously does. And, I would have preferred that the FO kept Beno to backup Jimmer, and tried to steal Wilson Chandler from Denver where he’s only going to be a backup to Gallinari. But, that isn’t the biggest decision we have to make right now.
The biggest decision is what you started with ‘Targeting a Center’. If the Kings do go after a Center, then I think that the decision between JT and JJ is a moot point. A starting center makes DMC our starting PF and our backup center, and makes JT expendable. Signing a backup center makes no sense unless we’re planning to move JT.
Where adding a starting PF (Unless of course we sign Nene or Sammy) and starting DMC at center, makes it a race to see if JJ or JT ends up as the backup PF/Center and might even move Hassan into the race for backup Center minutes.
But whoever we end up adding to the front court might not be totally in our hands. More than likely the Mav’s will let Barea walk and try to resign Chandler, and Memphis will try to retain Gasol. Denver will let J.R Smith and Kenyon Martin walk, freeing up $23M in cap space to resign Nene. And, in the end, the FA Center Market will probably end up the same way the Tony Parker daydream ended up. With the players, that everyone was drooling over, staying with their original team and the Kings having to settle for a John Salmon type trade.
In the end I think we end up resigning Sam or do a Sign & Trade with him for a starting PF. But, the biggest mystery is when and how do we move Cisco who’s value has all but disappeared with so many potential 2’s on the team, and the availability of so many better 3’s around the league.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jul 16, 2011 10:15 AM PDT reply actions 10 recs
I personally do expect the Kings to end up with a John Salmons like trade
a big man under contract and who needs to get off of someone’s books. If that were to happen I would only hope we’d deal from a position of strength and get picks with it but not holding my breadth (breath? breadth? spellcheck?)
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
breath
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 16, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed on all counts
I’d be happy with signing either Nene or Chandler, but like you said, I expect their current teams to keep them.
I’ve seen Josh Smith mentioned quite a bit around here. His shot-blocking ability, athleticism, and ability to play the 3 seem to make him a perfect fit for this team as our starting PF and backup SF. Do you think Josh Smith is even on Petrie’s radar? What would you think about making a sign and trade of Sammy, packaged with next year’s draft pick and JT for Josh Smith?
Do you think anyone on the Kings would be on Atlanta's radar?
Basically, I doubt it’s all that realistic either way
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
and didn't read the last part
pretty sure we can’t trade next year’s pick because of the Hickson deal and if we could I would think that’s pretty dangerous.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah...that doesn't work
Though the pick will almost certainly be made by the Kings this year, I think you’re right – we wouldn’t be able to trade it.
I guess all we have to offer Atlanta is Sammy, JT, and cap space. It would have to be something more complicated like trading Marvin Williams to a 3rd team, and the Kings taking back some bad contract.
Wally could be right, but the Hawks couldn't get out of the 2nd round
They played .650 ball with Smith and ended 6 games back and were 4-7 in the playoffs. To top that because of JJ’s $100M contract, they have a base salary of over $66M with only 7 players under contract.
Defensively they are only average, and below average offensively. Add in that Smith’s offense disappeared in the playoffs again (.404 from the field), one might believe that Atlanta needs to change something. And, Dalembert would replace the defense lost by trading Smith and allow Horford to move to PF.
So, a s&t for Sam could give Atlanta a front line of Sam, Horford and Marvin Williams and save them somewhere in the range of $5M if Sam agrees to a 4 yr deal starting around $8M. Of course, no one knows what direction they will go because we don’t know what other options will present themselves. But, I think it’s a good example of what might happen if we don’t pick up one of the FA bigs. There are many bigs that would fit nicely with our squad besides just the FA’s.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think Atlanta would be fine moving Smith
for a very good center, as Horford shifts over so easily. I think that is a better trade for Atlanta than it is for us, I think, for that reason. If we can get Smith minutes at the three effectively, I would like to see this deal.
by MichaelMack on Jul 17, 2011 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought we could
because technically we traded players not picks.
I could be wrong, but I always thought this was a loophole.
As a result of the NBA going dark and staging a lockout I plan on saying only depressing things until the season starts. If they put out the schedule I plan to also go and sit in the Arco parking lot on nights games would have been played. I will Tivo CSN on games nights. They can't stop me. Its my team and I'll cry if I want to, cry if I want to.
We'd know that by end of season this year
As a result of the NBA going dark and staging a lockout I plan on saying only depressing things until the season starts. If they put out the schedule I plan to also go and sit in the Arco parking lot on nights games would have been played. I will Tivo CSN on games nights. They can't stop me. Its my team and I'll cry if I want to, cry if I want to.
Yeah, but you wouldn't know about the next year yet
and you can’t trade it two years in a row.
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 16, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
You can get by that by picking up another 1st Rounder.
You can’t trade 1st rounders in consecutive years and leave your team with no 1st round pick. But, you could buy or trade for a late round pick. Or, you could swap picks as part of the trade.
JT + next years lottery pick for Smith and Atlanta’s #1 pick. The Hawks get a lottery pick next year, because the pick we traded for JJ is lottery protected. They get a young big that can play center and save around $10M in cap space. And, if that isn’t enough we could throw in a 2nd rounder from this year or next year.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
ain't happening
I know the Hawks have some long term salary and competition issues but they aren’t going to do something that drastic before the season. Likely only mid season if they are really floundering and very likely next year they will finally address the Josh Smith question. They got way too many owners there, it’s like a giant beaucracy in that front office and takes them forever to decide anything.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Never say never
I wouldn’t have thought LA could get Pau for chump change, and Camby got moved for nothing.
But, my use of Smith, was just an example of how the trading of 2 first round picks could be accomplished in consecutive seasons.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The pick to be determined later was a pick though, not a player
that’s where I am a little hung up.
Either way I cannot see Atlanta and the Kings agreeing to that kind of deal.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Keep Everyone.. Presuming they all fit
JT is 23 years old! I don’t see y not sign a center FA 2 start with DMC and have JJ and JT man down the goon squad off the bench(if they keep that name). I mean both of these players have the capabilities 2 start on another team, they’re young, and cheap. If they can work on this team I say sign em up 4 years to come and watch them get better as the team continues to gel. Don’t write him off so soon
Jason Thompson is turning 25 this week
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Damn really?
I thought he was 20/21 out of the draft
by streetfinese on Jul 16, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
he was a senior
young for his class (also probably a reason why he grew up with the nickname “The Kid.”) My birthday is coming up to and if are born in July you are at that weird cutoff area for team sports and also for your school grade. You are likely either going to be one of the oldest or youngest in your class or on your sports team if you are near the cutoff age.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Great stuff TZ and Akis
I you you got a bit ahead of yourself Akis with regards to extending JT for a cool 5-6 mil per year. I think the best he will end up getting from the Kings if he isn’t traded is a qualifying offer. I still think resigning Sammy is the best option open to the front office.
He fit reasonably well here and the Kings should be able to offer him the most money in what should his last decent contract. If it comes down to money or joining a contender to chase a ring, well, I’d take the money cuz once you sign the contract you get most of the money even under the new CBA. Over the years a lot of vets picked the wrong team when trying to secure their legacy with a ring but they all got paid. Sammy isn’t quite old enough to leave money on the table.
I don’t think the Kings traded Omri for JJ to see how well he competes with JT next season for the back up PF, this isn’t a quarterback competition in summer camp. I think they brought in JJ to replace JT and expect to trade him at the deadline or keep him for trade purposes during the FA gold rush next summer.
"It ain't Chinese algebra" - Tony Allen from Basketbawful
I don't think they traded for J.J. to replace JT
I think they did it to clear wing congestion and increase front court depth.
Author of the Pick and Scroll and NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I agree Aykis.
I think the Kings made the move for JJ Hickson in case they miss out on all of the front line bigs. If that happens, I believe the Kings will add a back-up C type and then let the battle begin between JT and JJ. I actually see JT as the starter in this situation because the Kings will have four other starters with 15-20 point per game potential and they will need a dirty work guy and then use JJ as a scorer off the bench.
If the Kings do land a big name post player, I could still see a situation where they keep both Thompson and Hickson but probably not past this season. I see Thompson getting closer to 5yr/$20-22 mill where Hickson is going to want a lot more than that. If the Kings keep Dalembert or sign Chandler, Hickson and his offense will be needed. If they land Nene or Gasol, then Thompson makes more sense as a solid all around big.
The Kings gave up a lot to get Hickson between the pick and Casspi. I don’t think the plan is to let him walk after next season but I’m also not completely convinced that he wasn’t acquired for another team. I am as interested as anyone to see how this all plays out.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
by jjham15 on Jul 16, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you
I think JJ is a good insurance policy if we miss out on a talented FA big man, and we were able to deal an unhappy player from an overloaded position. I do wonder, as JJ said above, what other moves besides Free Agents are on the table.
by MichaelMack on Jul 17, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Ook that makes sense..
Sadly I think ur right, they picked up JJ as options for JT. I just believe they should keep all 4 until the best trade is applicable/whiteside development is clear.
I think the best scenario is resigning MT23 and Dally than seeing how the cards play out.
Likely they are best two options on the market for the Kings.
I prefer Dalembert to the rest of the centers on market. He’s an excellent pairing with DMC, Sammy being the defensive force with offensive rebound focus and DMC being the offensive force freeing him for defensive rebounding focus. Rather simple analysis but they are yin and yang in several areas. I wish I had the link but Simmons wrote a basketball piece a month back citing advanced statistics, the Kings were amongst elite in rebounding. The Kings were the only lottery team with a major strength, being this combo.
Chandler brings similar elements to Dally. However he will cost more and more importantly no where near as durable as Dally. Chandler is a strong candidate for never being able to play 60+ games a season again, so sorry I’ll pass. I hate to roll my eyes at all the Gasol talk but it’s basketball, not fantasy basketball. With DMC already on the roster Gasol is rather redundant as a below the rim big body. Also a decent chance DMC is better than Gasol next NBA season considering Marc was playing a contract season and DMC his rookie. Nene is fit for the Kings but again can probably pay Dally $6 million less per season and use that money on another player or keeping Reke/Cousins later down the line.
Not a lot to talk about MT23. Think most agree he is the best option for the Kings. He is either a starter or ideal 6th man that already proved he can fit and be a major cog on the team.
There have been discussion on ball movement. With Reke/Cousins being the key components of a roster I don’t think the focus of team building should be around ball movement, never going to make it happen, its a path of failure. It’s different pieces from 2001 and need to build a different type of team. Should be focusing on team that can overpower and physically beat on opponents with a touch of high percentage scoring. The Spurs are a good model. Ideally the Kings should be aiming for a team that can hold opponent scoring 94 points or under and average scoring 96+ points themselves. Jimmer and MT23 probably give the Kings enough outside shooting for now. Returning Dally, acquiring Salmons for defense and nudging Reke to becoming a strong defender puts the team in that direction.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
by bignerd on Jul 16, 2011 2:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
flux and flo is the order of business in regards to NBA talent
First off – wonderful piece TZ. I hope you earmark this post and plan to refer back to it once we know when a CBA has been signed. I hope that is sooner rather than later.
Just as players improve (or don’t), fit (or don’t), there are other factors when projecting a line up for 2013. Draft picks, retirements and player movement for other teams will cause a shift in player value and the latest “style” of team, i.e. an influx of skilled 6’9" or taller players will cause offenses and defenses to adjust. Who coaches the Kings will also influence this (i.e. Van Gundy, Fratello are slow pace, D’Antoni, Nelson are very fast pace).. I still think the Kings need to develop a style of their own in order to determine who will remain on the squad and therefore their usefulness. I would prefer to see the Kings hold off on extensions.
As for Westphal – 35 wins is an 11 game improvement with a very new looking line up. If he can do that, you re-sign him. Factor in injuries and available coaching replacements and then we can argue.
The new look NBA, post-2011 CBA: parity? I think less so, but I would at least count on more player movement due to shorter contracts and lessened pay scales. JT and JJ may be available to extend their contracts but what if Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Anderson Varajeo are all available due to a version of hard cap? With commitments to Evans, Cousins, Thornton, Fredette, Salmons and New Center that’s around $37M or so of salary commitment for the next 3-4 years – minimum for 6 guys. If the cap is at $55M that’s 6-8 guys to divide up the remaining $18M. If you extend JT, JJ , one or both that eats up $6M or $12M of that. Will the 2% -ers do that and buy into another suddenly available higher priced talent? Even with the improvements and the addition of a Chandler, Gasol, Nene or Daly the Kings need more talent upgrades, as structured this is a maybe playoff team in two years. Who’s making the All-Star team next season from this squad? The season after?
So many questions, too many answers.
Call me crazy...
…but I actually think I’m happy with the roster we have right now. Tyreke will be healthy, we actually have some outside shooters, and Thornton will be around the full year. Besides, Cousins showed signs of getting into better shape towards the end of last season, and a fit Cousins will make a big impact for us defensively; he’s already proven himself to have quicker hands than we expected upon drafting him. With that all in mind, I realize there are questions about how well this group will fit together, whether or not the players will each take advantage of their full potential within an acceptable time frame, and whether or not Westphal can be effective in running this team. However, in terms of raw talent level, we’re set.
The only move that would make sense to me would be a move involving JT and/or Cisco. Everybody else is either a cornerstone or somebody we’ve just acquired in the last several months – and if we knew those players weren’t going to work out, why acquire them in the first place? Let’s give this roster a chance before we decide to add any big names to it (unless we can acquire the kind of player that you’d build any team around – but are any of those guys even available?).
My other concern is that we’re somewhere limited by the fact that JJ Hickson is too small to play center, and Cousins lacks the quickness to guard PFs; we’re kind of stuck with those two players at those two positions, and it’s not like we could put Hickson on the bench to back up both C and PF. Might as well let the Hickson-Cousins tandem prove itself a failure before we give up on it – and maybe it won’t be a failure after all.
"Where hope goes to die"
It could work out that way,
the Maloofs said that they would spend the cap, but didn’t say that they wouldn’t use it to sign our own FA’s.
Of course if we do only resign Sam and Marcus, then did we really use all that cap space to upgrade any positions? Salmons and JJ might end up being upgrades over Cisco and JT, but they came with little use of the almighty Cap Space.
And, after resigning Sam and Marcus, where do we spend the remaining cap. Upgrade at PF?, SF? PG? with backups? If we return the same lineup, plus add some depth with the remaining cap it would be very disappointing especially since we did so little last season with our cap. Cap that has been the driving factor in almost every move we made since we first traded away Miller and Salmons just to get out from under the last year of Miller’s contract.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Pretty much
I would be okay if they took other people’s bad contracts for draft picks but I doubt it
by wallywagon11 on Jul 16, 2011 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Not saying I disagree 100%.
Basically, what I’m saying is that:
(a) We’ve put a lot of pieces in place over the last several months, and the biggest need right now is to let the young talent develop; and
(b) It’s going to be hard to improve our frontcourt without wasting JJ Hickson as a backup PF (and only PF, since he won’t be backing us up at center).
I also want to add that we might be better off not even using our cap space this offseason. It seems to me like we’ve got a bad case of slim pickings, and we might as well save that almighty Cap Space for the right opportunity rather than the first opportunity.
"Where hope goes to die"
you can still use that Cap Space though
because once you start resigning those young guys you are going to end up cutting off some opportunities.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 17, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be willing to take that when and if it becomes an issue.
My understanding is that we’re not talking about making moves two or three years from now (when it’s time to resign Evans), but rather either right now (as is the case for most people in this thread) or over the course of the next twelve months (as I’m advocating).
By the time we start having to re-sign Tyreke, Cousins, etc., I’m not worried about cutting off any opportunities. At that point, if our current core players have failed to develop such that we’re still looking for costly pieces to acquire, then we aren’t going to be resigning our current core players anyway; we’ll probably deal them away, or (less likely) let them walk while we take those opportunities to acquire those costly players.
I see where everybody’s coming from if we’re looking for somebody to help us win now; I just don’t see many players available, either via trade or FA, who’s going to help us win now. If an opportunity comes up, then obviously take it, but if not, then maybe that’s a good thing. After all, if this roster ends up panning out over the next couple years, then exercising a little patience now means we won’t have to take such a big luxury tax hit then.
"Where hope goes to die"
"making moves two or three years from now"
I meant to say, “(when it’s time to resign Evans and Cousins, respectively)”.
"Where hope goes to die"
um okay?
By the time we start having to re-sign Tyreke, Cousins, etc., I’m not worried about cutting off any opportunities.
Not talking about then, talking about now. If you don’t use the cap before you have to resign those players you cut off opportunities now. Signing people to win right now is not the only way to use cap, it’s not the sole opportunity we are talking about.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 17, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont know about you.. but to me this sounds perfect
1.Resign Marcus thornton multi year contract
2.Sign anthony carter to a one year contract, with a team option
3. Sign Chris Wilcox or Kwame brown ( not sure for how long) but get either one as a rotation big.
because in all honesty whats the chances tyson chandler leaves the mavs to go elsewhere, or that dalambert resigns, to only be pushed back in and out of the starting line-up..plus he can get an all-defense type of year in miami, were he gets more national attention
Kwame Brown wouldn't make a bad rotation big.
I know he gets a bad rap because the Wizards wasted the #1 overall pick on him back in ‘01, but that doesn’t mean he can’t contribute as a solid role player. He posted something like 8 points and 7 rebounds per game for Charlotte last year while playing about 25 minutes, and he’s consistently hit about half his shots. Call him a rich man’s Scot Pollard, I guess.
"Where hope goes to die"
just a notch or two lower than JT and almost 30
wouldn’t be the biggest fan of that
by wallywagon11 on Jul 17, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
And he ain't a rich man's Scot Pollard
Granted at 29 or 30 Scot was washed up due to injuries but when Scot was here in Sac he was better than Kwame.
by wallywagon11 on Jul 17, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I would say they use the cap
They’ve promised it and it gives a thick security blanket for our team to get some wins early. Chandler already stated he would listen to offers elsewhere, because he knows last year was dallas’ year and it’s gone. I like them, but I don’t think they’ll be back in the finals with or with him and their young core consist of really one French Pg and Dirk. The team doesn’t have the hunger of last year, they’re a year older, and they don’t have a KG or Paul Pierce on the team to fuel them past these facts (all in hindsight). He said he wants to be with a team with a future and if FO can convince him to see the light then we can get him with the money we offer. Besides that, I think Sammy D goes to a contender where he definitely starts all season, Nene gets PAID to go to a more up and coming team than us at the least, and the same with Gasol. But I feel as Marc is the only one that stats with his current team. My point is, if we lock up one of these names, we win sooner than later and (to me) if JJ and JT both excel this year I keep them both. Trade the big FA center we just signed basically for most of the cap room we just used, a big body(bad but not as big contract), and draft picks. This way we’re covered as far as big men go, period. There has to be a working rotation with all that talent whether we keep everyone or not. We can press on to fitting guards w. Reke and I’m sure MT23 or Jimmer can do it.

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