It's OK, We Have John Salmons
by Tom Ziller on Jan 12, 2012 12:00 PM PST
in Commentary
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PrintWe wondered if John Salmons had crossed the river into "past his prime," if he had seen the greatest bites of his NBA career and watched them trickle by. We took the bait when the Sacramento Kings pitched it as a big catch for a team with shallow depth at small forward. A consistent stream of defense and offensive roleplaying, someone to unblock the dam of playmaking pressure on Tyreke Evans, we were told. Instead of swimming upstream at the three every single game, we'd have some parity with opponents there. The move would spawn a more balanced, consistent attack.
Instead, all we got was a set of really fishy set of puns.
Salmons is easily playing worse than anyone that the Kings trotted out in 2010-11, with the singular exception of Antoine Wright. He's an absolute disaster on the glass (as he's always been at small forward; this is no surprise), he's been a poor secondary playmaker (10 percent assist rate), he's scoring little (9 points per 36 minutes) and inefficiently (36 percent from the floor, 22 percent on threes, .423 True Shooting percentage) and his defense has been totally uneven. He's been bad bad bad.
He is also the Kings' highest-paid player, one the team acquired willingly just months ago. The Kings took on $11 million in additional guaranteed salary in the swap for Beno Udrih (a better, younger and of course cheaper player than Salmons) ... and moved down in the lottery. Including this season, Salmons is due $25 million through 2014. He had been in decline -- his efficiency and scoring had both fallen in 2010-11, and his PER fell from a career-high 16 in 2009 to 14.7 in 2010 to 12.8 in 2011. (It's 7.9 this season.)
Geoff Petrie, no doubt with Paul Westphal's encouragement, made an investment in Salmons hoping he'd provide a serious improvement at small forward. Instead, he's been much worse -- something beyond what even critics of the deal saw -- and the only saving grace is the fact that the Kings (if they can afford to burn cash) can amnesty him next summer. Whether they do or not, the Kings still have an incredible weakness at small forward. (Travis Outlaw doesn't seem to be the answer. Color me stunned.)
What a disaster that trade was, no matter how Jimmer develops.
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At least he has a nice personality
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Oh god, college flashbacks!!
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Jan 12, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Someone call me?
Seriously, we need to stop bringing in players named after animals.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, Aykis needs to do a mashup of Kenny Thomas and John Salmons
Two albatrosses. Who’s idea was it to bring Salmons back? We need to scale back, he is quickly becoming a bottom feeder.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Honeycutt is our answer at SF. He is ready to go. I can’t believe he wasn’t even given a chance…..this guy is a good shooter, plays solid defense, can pass and rebound
by CousinsEvansDUO on Jan 12, 2012 12:11 PM PST reply actions
No he is not ready to go
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Based on College or D-League?
Jimmer was a god in college, but so far just average in the NBA. Its a different game. That said, he probably won’t do worse (or better) than our current SF’s.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
He needs to bulk up, among other things
His defense is one of his stronger points, but unless he adds some weight he won’t be a factor against most of the other threes in the league. I’m excited to see him play, but I’d rather see him fully develop first instead of getting lost in the whirlwind of bad small forwards we have in Sacramento.
slapping ma' hoes?
;)
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“We should start Honeycutt” is the new “We have Hassan Whiteside”.
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but he's great in my NBA 2k12 franchise when I play with him!
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Wow really?
Haha if that’s true, I would love to know how.
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Dude everyone knows
Hassan Whiteside is WAAAAAY better in 2k12….especially when I upped his Block and Vertical to 100.
Cheater, haha
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
What's the best solution?
Start Cisco? Or slide Reke over to the 3 and start IT or Jimmer at pg?
I don’t think Honeycutt is ready, but then again, I haven’t seen him play much against NBA talent.
Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
by ItsALeagueGame on Jan 12, 2012 12:12 PM PST reply actions
I would go with Cisco
Honeycutt is not ready by any means
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
Cisco is vocal and a good leader out there. He might be a step slow, but so is Salmons, and at least Cisco can recover pretty well. And I think Cisco will bury his open shots without forcing anything.
Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
by ItsALeagueGame on Jan 12, 2012 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Eww, no
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
It's pretty disappointing...
…when all you can hope is that someone comes back up to their career averages.
by #12Pick...who? on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 PM PST reply actions
Kind of like hoping a player can get back to his rookie stats...
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I see what you did there
Boooo….
...Watching DeMarcus Cousins’ transformation from large human to immortal kill beast...
Did Petrie get a lobotomy in the last couple years?
It is incredibly upsetting to see how horribly Petrie has run the ship the last couple years. Salmons, Outlaw, No PG, and Westhpal all fall at the feet of Petrie. Absolutely horrid decisions in the vain of Kahn. In fact, one could argue Kahn has done a much better job the Petrie the past two years. Sacrilegious, I know.
What about trading for Thornton?
Drafting IT, Evans, and Cousins? Not making excuses, but not everything he has done is bad.
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Some of the blame might fall on the Maloofs and their penny-pinching ways
But Geoff has made some bad moves
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
This...
it’s hard to buy a Porsche when you can only afford is a Volkswagen
Purveyor of Bull Plop
shit
… afford a Volkswagen. (Thought about it too long)
Purveyor of Bull Plop
That's true I agree
It’s still tough that you could get a good quality one, but we keep getting lemons sometimes
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn't referring to that particular trade
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
Was a pretty lateral swap shipping our Beno and moving back 3 spots (smaller rookie contract)
But the trade still falls on Petrie.
I think the penny pinching is more about Westphal. You spend the least money in the league on your coach and you are risk getting what you pay for.
This in particular was what I was referencing
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
What is his good move %.
What is the team’s winning percentage over the past couple of years and how many coaches did the Kings have?
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
I said I was not making excuses
I also said that not EVERYTHING he has done is bad as some here seem to suggest
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Thornton was a great trade (following up on the questionable Martin deal)
I’d say 90% of GMs would have taken Reke and DMC where they became available. I give him no credit for those.
He got lucky at 60 with IT so far.
I agree that “not everything” he’s done has been bad. Its been bad enough to get fired though.
I think 90% of GMs woulda taken Rubio where we took Evans. Based on the crazy Rubio hype machine.
And you’re probably right about DMC but Greg Monroe was def in the convo for more “culture oriented” franchises
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Yeah,
Cousins was a top two talent but at least three other teams passed on him because of his “red flags.” Petrie deserves whatever praise/condemnation is to come from the Cousins pick, as it was definitely not a layup of a selection.
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Not sure people would have taken Rubio over Evans
I’m pretty sure the word coming out of all the workouts was that Evans was killing it, and Rubio would only go to certain cities and work out by himself without any competition.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
With all due respect to Evans
…Rubio seems to be the real deal, as well.
But during the draft process, there was no way of knowing that
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't say Rubio hasn't been good
He’s been great. But at this point I still believe Evans was the right pick.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
FYI - Update on Martin-Landry
Quick PER update (they both suck at D, so PER is actually pretty good measure)
Carl Landry:
09/10 Adelman Rockets: 21.1
10/11 Wetphal Kings: 14.7
11/12 Hornets: 18.8
Kevin Matin
09/10 Westphal Kings: 17.0
10/11 Adelman Rockets: 21.4
11/12 McHale Rockets: 15.2
They are largely the same player. One plays guard. One plays forward. They were both grossly mishandled by Westphal. They both thrived under Adelman. That was a pretty even deal.
Still, we would have been better off trading for Adelman instead ;)
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 12, 2012 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The Adelman firing pissed me off
I still remember it, too. It was the last time the Kings were in the playoffs, the Kings were in the decline (even though I didn’t see it that way, as the Kings were surging toward the end of the 05-06 season). Petrie was fired, even though he was saying he’d like to stay in Sacramento the rest of his career. ….And then the Musselman era came, the lobster claws/K9 era, the Theus era, Westphal and absolute loads of crap.
They were surging at the end of that season
But they were nowhere near rising for the future. All of the players were getting older and the window had closed. Adelman* was fired, regardless of what he said, because he had a falling out with the Maloofs IIRC.
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
I couldn’t remember the details though. I still remember I was in science class when my science teacher gave us the news, and I was stunned
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by raiderking21 on Jan 13, 2012 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
And just for the record. He wasn't fired.
His contract expired and he didn’t sign a new one. It seems clear that a new deal wasn’t offered, but there is no indication that if one had been offered, that he would have signed it anyway.
May have been a mutual parting.
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 13, 2012 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
It appears that both Salmons and Petrie
are still in the game based on their past accomplishments.
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Jan 12, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Kahn got lucky
We gift wrapped Rubio to them. Then again, if their plan was to get Tyreke and Steph Curry maybe we screwed them.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
I still think we got the better player
Plus they have Adelman who is the perfect coach for Rubio
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Adelman would be perfect for Tyreke and Cousins
Tons of back door cuts for easy layups. Your probably right, if Rambis was the coach, then I’m not convinced that Rubio would be playing this good. The only good thing about PW is we avoided Rambis.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
well, considering they drafted Flynn pretty sure they were going Reke and Flynn
and pretty sure it wasn’t gift wrapped they actually traded for that pick
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think they traded for the pick before the draft and had back to back picks
Flynn just shows how bad Kahn really is. Rubio had enough hype where it would be hard to pass. Its always been my dream to somehow get Curry on our team with Tyreke, but now my dream is that Jimmer can be the next Curry.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Shoot they drafted Lawson too
SHOULDA KEPT HIM!!!
Lawson > Rubio,Flynn,Reke (tear)
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
I would not take Lawson over Rubio or Evans
Lawson is a nice role player. An above average starter. Not hating on him at all.
However, despite his ability to frustrate us, Evans has star potential. Considering stars aren’t signing here, I would much rather go through Evans growing pains. Not to mention Evans is finally as old this year (22) as Lawson was his rookie season.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 12, 2012 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd definitely take Lawson over Rubio personally
Evans is the only one of those three that I think can reach “superstar”…but I really, really, really doubt he’ll get close.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
I wouldn't.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 13, 2012 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
I think that most of Kahn's recent compliments have more to do with Rick Adelman
He’s got that squad playing as well as they can and getting fairly good results out of it. They’re definitely on the rise, and I can’t see that happening if Rambis was still at the reigns.
by Olde Greg on Jan 12, 2012 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Could also have to do with 3 good picks (one wasn't his)
out of a ton of bad ones but nevertheless Love, Willians, and Rubio do you some good. Other than that though the roster still needs some serious tweeks.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Just the fact that we can even argue Kahn doing as good a job as Petrie says it all.
by amonk81 on Jan 12, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well I think the jokes got stupid pretty quick
either way though, doesn’t seem like the best evaluator of talent and is prone to being an asshole. Like that he was willing to trade for so many picks I suppose (other than Rubio didn’t lead to much though).
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ya, what was the number that year for Kahn, 4 or 5 first round picks?
And one of them has panned out in Rubio?
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
You could say the same about Danny Ainge in Boston.
He was a terrible GM until he was giftwrapped Ray Allen and KG. Then he is heralded as a savior.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
The only thing that makes Petrie look better than Kahn right now is
Petrie knows how to not say stupid shit in the media. That’s it! What if everything that came out of Kahn’s mouth confused you in a way that it made you just feel dumber than him? Instead Kahn confuses you in a way that makes you think HE’S the idiot. Petrie makes you feel like YOU’RE the idiot. If you look purely at personel moves Kahn looks better.
by Allbenji on Jan 12, 2012 2:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Only personnel move that looks appreciably better is the Adelman hiring
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
You know what? Just call me SalmonKing21 for this thread
Because I’m about to go all Chapu4u
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According to Jerry Reynolds, Salmons can average 14 points per game. He said it twice. No, really.
Lets ponder this for a moment…
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
(SalmonKing21 talking) Yes he can!
He can be the (3rd) best player on this team, he can hit the three, defend, and make plays. He is the complete package. You guys are just haters, Salmons can be great. He doesn’t suck, he’s just in a slump. And he’s a veteran so he will come together and be one of the best players on the team watch!
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
The real me
I think he can, but he has to be the second or third option on offense which he is clearly not, nor should ever be. I do believe he is a better player than he has been playing, not good enough to warrant the trade, but he is not and should not be this bad all season.
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Salmons is a better player than he has been playing,
Which does not help us out much, nor does he make good trade bait. Either way we are ______ (you fill in the blank).
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Absolutely. While opposing players are wasting energy running up and down the floor and chasing defenders
He is building up his stamina for those crucial late-season games. And he’s consistently demonstrating to Reke how overdribbling and tunnelvision can disrupt the flow of offense! Obviously.
by blknblu on Jan 12, 2012 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rubio's hotter
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
The scary thing...a lot us can remember how Salmons plays when he comes of the bench
He has this horrible ability to pout and play poorly when he doesn’t start. Off the bench, he may be even worse than he already is right now. It may mean start him or trade/amnesty him. Ugh.
I dunno, he'd be the number 1 or 2 offensive option off the bench on this team.
Maybe he’d be happier as a 6th man with a green light then a starter told to play defense and wait for kick-outs.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 12, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
I remember him being pretty pissed when he played behind Artest
I remember Artest being out for a few games (either an injury, suspension, or getting frying pans thrown by his wife) and Salmons was a solid starter. Once Artest came back, Salmons started pouting and complaining.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yea, and if he's a solid starter for us again, he's allowed to pout if we start Donte or Outlaw over him.
Until then, throw his ass on the bnech.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
If he pulls that then just don't play him at all
K9’s spot is getting awfully cold
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 12, 2012 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
So answer this question then.
What is the role of the SF on this team? Has it changed much from when PW coached? I can’t see that it has changed much…
Previously it has been to sit at the 3 point line to create space for guards to penetrate and try to score. Add little passing to that and it created a sure fire failure for any player at the SF if there were any expectations.
Even Omri was pushed into that role without any option because PW was so rigid about it that he would not even allow him to drive across the paint or crash the boards.
I will say this much. I never wanted Salmons back, but his failure here is as much about the team sucking so bad as it is about him not being the kind of player who imposes himself on a game.
This team has to define a role for the SF that is more than being a solid defender and shooting so few 3s that there is no chance to develop a shooting rhythm. Until then expect ongoing failure of pretty much any player and little success at the 3 as an ongoing problem.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
+1, Brother
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Maybe moving salmons down to sixth man will motivate him to do better. for the time being have cisco get around 20mins and salmons around 20 at the 3. Have those two compete with each other over the starting spot and whoever does better over say a month or so earns the starting spot.
by CousinsEvansDUO on Jan 12, 2012 12:34 PM PST reply actions
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
10 water/fish puns in one paragraph. Nice.
Anyways, I’m eager to see Coach Smart scale back Salmons’ minutes. If that means casting Jimmer or IT in a role they might not be ready for, so be it.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 12, 2012 12:35 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
I honestly expected the last sentence to just be "Fish." kind of like "Meow" in Supertroopers
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Totally almost did just that.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 12, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
DONTE
I know most people are over hoping Donte reaches his potential, but I’m not. Last night
was a good indicator of what he is capable of.
If he shoots when he’s open plays good D he should start. Salmons is playing terrible and Garcia can’t hang athletically.
Start Donte.
by dj3ptspecialist44 on Jan 12, 2012 12:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I've seen that movie before as well
Donte’s played like this at times in the past. Hope you’re right though.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Thankfully he's not really a Salmon
Or would have died on the court after spawning during his first run with the Kings.
twss
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 13, 2012 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
I know everyone is ready to tar and feather Salmons
But I do think that he will put together a string of games, at some point this season, where he will score and quite possibly lead us to some wins. I still think he is a solid SF that is going through a terrible, terrible slump. While Im not the man’s biggest fan, I do think that he is much better than he has played thus far in the season.
"I had 2 laugh at ths..I was playing my oldest son Zaire on his nerf rim & he dunked & said Gibson while screaming..L2MS Kids u gotta luv em" - D.Wade on Twitter
by mdotbrown on Jan 12, 2012 12:44 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
was about to say the same thing.
still dont like the trade. but lets not quite give up. a breakout game is just waiting for him
Totally Agree...
Beno was cool but I don’t think he and Tyreke liked playing with eachother, and we all know we’re rollin with Reke… When we made the trade i was optimistic that he and Reke would mesh.. Salmons game is best when recieving the kickout and 1) attacking the hoop or 2) pull up midrange – Dude is not playing well right now thats for sure! Hope he starts playing better so another team will bid high on him when we amnesty his ass at the end of the season.
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard!
- Wooden
by Get Jimmered on Jan 12, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
tar and feather Salmons
You are a horrible cook.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 13, 2012 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Donte will get the start if Salmons does not improve
Smart is going to play the guys who are consistent, and I think Donte is going to get a look as the starter if Salmons and Outlaw do not prove their worth.
by Sactown's Finest on Jan 12, 2012 12:55 PM PST reply actions
I am betting on Cisco if it is anybody
And that Donte will serve backup minutes as a stretch 4. He has the height and athleticism to do it and if he can hit a few 3s can stretch the floor.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
by CowbellKings on Jan 12, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Oh god
Donte starting?? If Salmons can’t rebound, why not run a DMC, Hickson, Tyreke, MT, Isaiah line-up out there?
by gregory l on Jan 12, 2012 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Because we would get destroyed every night in the backcourt
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
The one thing Donté has done really well so far this season is rebound
Small Sample Size Institute approved of course. Currently he’s playing the best of any of our SFs which is kind of sad.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
Good thing we have the amnesty
or Salmons would be the new K-9. I wouldn’t mind Donte starting, the bar for the starting SF is set pretty low right now.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 12, 2012 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
John Salmons is one of the most overrated/useless players in the league. This was a horrible move in the off-season so this is no surprise. I’ve urged and prayed that we drop at least 1 or 2 of our interchangeable Small Forwards, and it is high time that we get rid of him. Cut, Drop, trade for the ghost of Nick Van Exel. I don’t care. I can’t stand watching him play any more
On a positive note. Cousins looked amazing last night. And Isiah Thomas looked very good as well.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 12, 2012 1:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He can't be the most overrated in the league
With Amar’e still playing
by HeuristicLineup on Jan 12, 2012 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Cousins was impressive
Loved how he didn’t respond to the tackling and hack-a-Cuz.
Then Jerry Reynolds is an idiot.
One of those statements must be true.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 13, 2012 8:25 AM PST up reply actions
I can just see how Salmons would react to this post...
"I gotta have more cowbell"
by CowbellKings on Jan 12, 2012 1:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Actually if we got more of the above and less of the below it would be better.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
by CowbellKings on Jan 12, 2012 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Desmond Mason, Ime Udoka, Luther Head, John Salmons
Small forward is the Petrie’s kryptonite.
by 49er16 on Jan 12, 2012 1:16 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Although he chose not to secure him in the expansion draft
BUT I don’t think he would have gotten his chance in SacTown so I’m really glad they took him, love the guy
MY NAME'S AL HARRINGTON, I GET BUCKETS
Luther Head was a small forward?
I mean, he was small, but he wasn’t a forward.
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by Exhibit G on Jan 12, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Don't recall Mason being one either
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
actually out of this list, Mason, Udoka, and Salmons are SG
who were acquired to play SF. That is the biggest problem. Just because they can guard SFs sometimes doesnt mean they should always be at that position.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Also, hate on Salmons all you want
But if you are going to start listing every minimum salary training camp invite, every GM is going to have a long list of mediocre players.
Salmons he acquired and he makes 8 million for the next 3 years. Hate away.
Mason and Wright were camp signings who were cut after a few games. Udoka was signed to a 10 day contract (I believe) and then inked for the rest of the year at the minimum salary.
Totally different situations.
I like to think of our small forward position
As the new “Defense Against the Dark Arts” professor in each Harry Potter book
"Smelling the cork from an open bottle of wine is like smelling a woman's ass before you make love to her"
Miles from the novel "Sideways"
by A Night At The Arco on Jan 12, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And Salmons is Quibble, Fake Moody, or Snape?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 13, 2012 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
Problem at the 3 solved
My time machine is almost complete and when it is, I’ll go grab the 03-04 Peja. Done. Y’all can thank me now if you like.
Really impressed with JT and Donte's play lately
but I do think it has to do with them coming off the bench rather than starting like previous years
Dear Kings Fans,
Thank you for taking Salmons off our hands.
Regards,
Bucks Fans
by Superelkman on Jan 12, 2012 1:43 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
C'mon fess up
You bribed the Maloofs with a lifetime supply of venison and Old Milwaukee.
I'd be more upset,
but we pawned off a currently out of shape, 20% 3 point shooter with no D onto you. So HA! We all lose.
I believe we also swiped the 60th pick
Which we used on IT2, granted it was a different deal but still.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
Honeycutt Time!!!
with Greene and Garcia as backups!
I say throw Honeycutt into the fire because he cant do any worse than what we have done so far.
I think he can
He is nowhere near ready
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Wanna bet?
He’s earning 13 mpg in the D League. There’s a reason he’s not starting in the NBA right now.
Never forget, I'm a complete idiot.
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Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Jan 12, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And a very unproductive 13 mpg at that
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If it's mid march and we are way out of contention for playoffs. Then I say start Honeycutt.
but until then….Garcia or Donte. They are better fits in regards to the other starters.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Salmons isn't done yet
Salmons has struggled mightily on the offensive end, but I feel in recent weeks he has been looking to get others involved and is buying into the “extra pass” philosophy that this team so desperately needs to adopt.
Defensively I feel like he plays harder and more consistently than anyone else on the squad. Even Salmons haters have to admit he competes hard on defense, right?
I think he still has some solid basketball left in him.
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Jan 12, 2012 2:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
looking forward...
We need to decide what to do with Donte. He seems like he has matured over the past year, is still only 23 and still has all the athletic gifts to be what this team has wanted from the small forward (defensive stalwart and three point shooter). Will he do that on the kings? Who knows, but he is on the third year of his rookie scale, so it would be nice to figure that out sooner rather than later.
Adoptive father of Caleb Hous.... hous... housyourdaddy?
by OmahaGiants on Jan 12, 2012 2:13 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Awesome...so we may amnesty Salmons and are back to square one before we unnecessarily traded for him.
Wouldn’t that amnesty have been put to better use had we NOT traded for Salmons? Best example is probably making a big splash via trade and need to clear some cap space by amnestying Garcia.
Job well done Petrie. Look forward to Outlaw doing his best K9 impression for the next 3 years…
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Jan 12, 2012 2:13 PM PST reply actions
Sorry Geoff, I love you, but...
I’m still sticking with Kawhi Leonard/Beno > Jimmer/Salmons.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 12, 2012 2:28 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Or what about the whole RJ + Tony Parker for our pick?
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Jan 12, 2012 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you 214
I’ll go one further & say I’d rather have Knight/Beno/Omri/Hawes/Nocioni over Jimmer/Salmons/JJ/Dalembert(rental)
Hawes/Cousins could have been Vlade/Webber 2
by Allbenji on Jan 12, 2012 3:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think that the Spencer Hawes that you see today
would have ever evolved had he stayed here in Sacramento. All last year he still looked the same old Spencer. Apparently he finally bought in to Collins’ system.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 12, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You're probably right
But to me that’s still on Petrie because he would have never gotten better under Westphal. Instead of getting a better coach he just dumped him. Glad he finally woke up or we might be sending Reke to Utah for Devin Harris.
by Allbenji on Jan 12, 2012 4:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed as it pertains to hiring a coach that apparently had no skill/interest in developing youth
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 12, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The other thing on Spencer that needs to be added here
It is 10 games into a season. Let’s see how he does a full season and if he can stay healthy (another concern about Hawes).
by betweentheeyes on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Salmons - 0 for 18
Salmons has missed his last 18 three pointers in his last 5 games. 18 3s! hes almost as bad as donte greene. If smart was smart, he would tell them to STOP SHOOTING THREES! Look at Spencer Hawes, the kings let him shoot threes and he sucked. The 76ers tell Hawes “Why the hell are you shooting threes! You can’t make them. Quit shooting them or were gonna sit your ass” Look how good spencer is doing now.
by Larry Absolut on Jan 12, 2012 2:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Look at Spencer Hawes, the kings let him shoot threes and he sucked. The 76ers tell Hawes "Why the hell are you shooting threes! You can’t make them. Quit shooting them or were gonna sit your ass" Look how good spencer is doing now.
Well, considering Salmons historically has hit a three pointer per 36 at a 36.5% clip and Hawes has hit 0.4 threes per 36 at 30% and is 7 feet tall, I kind of get the sense their situations are a little different.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 12, 2012 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Its hard to work on your shot with so little days off.
And most days off are used for rest.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
AMNESTY OTIS!!!
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
by Shizzo on Jan 12, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Me too
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
lol...too bad this key statistical data wasn't brought forth pre-trade.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Jan 12, 2012 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Statistically Salmons is better than he's playing which they knew pre-trade
the league average in 3pt shooting for all players averaging more than 15 mpg, is a eFG% of 51% or 34% in actual baskets made. One out of three. There are only 46 players that average above 60% in eFG% and only 82 that actually shoot over 50% eFG% from beyond the arc.
Salmons averaged between 57% and 62% in eFG% over the last 3 seasons. So, why is he shooting so badly this season, well it’s probably not the offense. For his entire career Salmon has had 75%+ assisted 3pt baskets. With the Kings he’s getting 87%, and by my memory not that many of Salmons misses have been heavily contested.
So why the drop in shooting percentage. Simple answer SSS. The last 3 seasons John has averaged between 200-300 3pt attempts. So far, he’s only taken 36 attempts. I don’t see anyone talking about his 92% at the rim which leads the team by almost 30%. John averages about 3 to 4 attempts per game over the last 3 full seasons. With the KIngs he’s averaged 3.3 over 11 games. Just to match his average shooting percentage based on the number of shots he takes, he would have had to make 12-14 threes in those 11 games. He has 8. This is not the numbers of a man that is over the hill. These are the numbers of a man that is in a small shooting slump.
Unfortunately, many people didn’t like John’s acquisition. And, unfortunately the current FG% is validating their opinion. I’m betting that the numbers go up significantly under Coach Smart, and all this complaining will disappear. John wouldn’t even be in my top 40 for players I’d like to start at the 3 for us, but he is the best choice on the team.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 12, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe he's old
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Jan 12, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Question: Do you not think Salmons can get at least back up near his career averages?
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
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by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather see Garcia out there more, but I hope so
I imagine he’ll get better, and someone was noting how his numbers improved significantly in the second half of the season last year.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I agree with you, I'd rather not see Salmons get 30 minutes
And have those mintues split between Greene (along with some stretch 4) and Garcia.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 13, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Pity that it's the actual Salmons
out there playing and not his career stats. Any way we can facilitate a trade between the two?
Career stats show a measure of how a player has performed
And the kind of dropoff Salmons has been seeing is really too steep to be as best as it can be. If he can get close to his career averages (he should average out) then he should become the best 3 we have.
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
If he hits 20 one night and we win, I think the complaining will die down for a little bit...Maybe
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Of course (:
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Free Donte!
Salmons is done. Can’t shoot, can’t defend, his court awareness is awful, he keeps the ball out of our best players’ hands (Reke/Cousins). We need a ROLE PLAYER who knows his ROLE in the starting 5.
I like what I’ve seen from Donte so far. A little shot happy, but that shot has looked better.
Total Disaster
I was incredulous when Salmons came back. He was terrible when he left and he’s worse now. Ask Petrie to tell us why Salmons is here. This is Petrie’s screw up, no one else’s. Why is Petrie getting no heat? He deserves it.
glenn bell
by seeanew on Jan 12, 2012 5:12 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if Salmons has played worse.
His shooting I don’t recall has ever been so bad, so I would think it would be fair to say that he can possibly improve.
On this team hes not the primary or secondary offensive weapon (Probably 4th in starting lineup), where at Chi, Bucks and even his first stint here, he was 1-3rd, so I think it’s something he trying to adapt too.
Hes playing more as a defensive minded player. Although he has been up and down, he has made some important plays, especially that Bucks win.
Also he hasn’t been dribble driving as much as everyone first thought, although he has drove into traffic when it wasn’t needed.
However I still think he is the best we have at the moment, and he should have a chance to improve under the new coach as well. Play him according to performance on the night. Keep him starting, but if hes getting beat, give minutes to Cisco & Donte….That’s fair.
Nothing worse than having a high played player doing nothing, when we all know he can play better.
Remember 2 seasons ago, he was playing some good ball for Chi in the playoffs against Boston, and was one of the main match-ups that nearly (Yes I know, nearly) toppled Boston (at the time was #1 East).
Not saying I expect this Salmons, as he is a little older, different team etc, but I would say he has more upside.
Donte Cisco time
I think you’re going to see Donte and Cisco continue to eat into Salmons’ minutes. If you look at the historical PER numbers, Cisco is right there with Salmons as is Outlaw. Donte has the closer ties to the team and the lower cost and could still develop as he has some athleticism and just needs to play smarter.
"His D was a difference at the end."
Uh, you haven't been a Kings fan for very long have you?
There’s no such thing as “getting lucky” in the draft.
"Put Kobe or Lebron in a wheelchair, and I can GUARANTEE Tyreke would demolish either. You might want to rethink what you just said." - MarcusC.
"I never read those trade threads. They seem to be mainly populated with the sports equivalent of people who think the Rapture is imminent." - andy sims.
by PhutureKings on Jan 13, 2012 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Well there's no such thing as "getting lucky" in the draft lottery
But it is entirely possible we get lucky in the actual draft
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
by raiderking21 on Jan 13, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ziller, this article is nothing more than a red herring
You’re sharking for a reason to whale on Petrie, but you end up flopping around on the banks of the River of Logic. The truth is, Petrie is no shrimp as a GM; he has definitely sent this team up the creek without a paddle with some of his trades, but if we simply wade through these choppy seas and stay afloat, there are better conditions on the horizon.
I may seem like I buy into Petrie hook, line and sinker, but I just realize roster management is not like shooting fish in a barrel. And even if this Salmon is a real stinker, there’s plenty of other fish in the sea.
Coach Smart just needs to reel in Salmons’ shooting a bit and make him more of a passer, because right now he looks like a fish out of water. But if that doesn’t work, we’ll just have to cut bait and send Salmons to sleep with the fishes.
So seriously, quit carping about Petrie and let’s root for the Kings to go kick some bass.
Aw, who am I kidding? I’m just fishing for an argument here. I’ll leave the basketball arguments to those more qualified – I’ve got other fish to fry.
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
by darooster on Jan 13, 2012 12:11 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I'm just hoping Salmons turns it around so...
Petrie can fulfill my hope that he always intended to flip the fish at the trade deadline to a team desperate for a little more offense for the playoffs. When Salmons returned, I prayed it was Westphail’s wish and that Petrie obliged him, figuring (when Westphail failed) the fish would keep at least until the trade deadline before he went bad. Everybody needs to light candles and pray that Salmons emerges from his slump so we can pack him in ice and ship him out for an expiring contract.
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