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SOPA And Sports Fans

We try to stay out of politics that aren't local and revolve around the arena issue here, but given today's web-wide focus on Congress' Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), and the fact that Sactown Royalty nor any SB Nation sites are going dark like Wikipedia and Reddit, I figured I'd share some info on the official position of SB Nation's parent company, Vox Media.

You can read that position in full at The Verge (Vox's excellent consumer electronics branch), as well as at SBNation.com. What it boils down to is this: SOPA looks at a legit crack in the foundation of the internet -- the piracy of paid content -- and elects to tear the entire building down. SOPA would force content providers who include community elements -- like Sactown Royalty, which has vibrant comment threads and robust FanPost and FanShot sections -- to become the enforcement arm of Hollywood, the music industry and the rights holders to sporting event broadcasts. The same would apply to virtually every website based in the United States, causing a completely destructive reworking of the internet as we know it.

We have long had a blanket policy on Sactown Royalty that you do not ask for or provide illicit streams of games in our threads. We have banned members for abuses of that practice, and feel that we have been a good partner of the NBA in this regard. We obviously don't tolerate links to any other pirated material such as movies or albums. But SOPA would force us to spend considerable time and money on compliance and all but castrates previous federal protections for sites who rely on user-generated content.

SOPA is like taking a sledgehammer to a thumbtack, and it's bad policy. As sports fans, consumers of web content and members of Sactown Royalty, you should be rightly concerned, and we urge you to contact your Congresspeople to express your displeasure with the bill and its Senate counterpart, the Protect IP Act (PIPA).

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There's a petition floating around the net against this ( I don't have a link).

To me, this certainly is one of those times where the American public has to take matters into their own hands because these policies do not have the general populas’ best interest in mind, IMO.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 8:11 AM PST reply actions  

There's a link to a petition on the front page of Canis Hoopus.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 8:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Alternatively,

You can go on any Wikipedia, which is blacked out, enter your zip and get the phone numbers for your representatives. I actually spoke with a live person for one of my representatives.

Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."

by Slam_Dunk on Jan 18, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

Off topic: Here´s a tip if you want an NBA stream: get NBA league pass for a lot of money if you like flawed software (literally no improvement over the last three years), and don´t particulary care if on opening night or All Star Weekend the whole thing breaks down because of too many clicks. It´s a crying shame that I totally depend on it if I want to watch the NBA (in my country not even pay tv could afford to buy the rights from the NBA, so there´s not a second of NBA ball on tv). They even make me pay more for 66 games than I had to pay for 82 last year, just because they can. Where amazing happens…

by rubenho on Jan 18, 2012 8:18 AM PST reply actions  

Amen.

We get a few games in the UK, but you have to pay extra for it. Even then it’s the Heat… or the L*kers… or the Heat vs the L*akers…

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 8:27 AM PST up reply actions  

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 18, 2012 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 18, 2012 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

do it for the kittens
for the jet skis
for the love!

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 11:57 AM PST up reply actions  

That's fantastic!

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't care about the kittens,

so I did it for wally.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 18, 2012 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Hopefully if this passes the Obama administration will stick to their word and veto

But the intention is still to get some type of similar legislation passed in the future, so being loud about this at all times is a good idea.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 8:30 AM PST reply actions  

dangerously close to politics, but what the heck

Wow, I have zero faith in the president to act in the interests of the public, regardless of who wins the next election.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 8:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, it kind of makes sense

This legislation is being driven by big corporate interests, and the public is pretty overwhelmingly against this legislation.

In an election year, you really think the administration is going to support this bill? A veto is a no-brainer.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 8:44 AM PST up reply actions  

man I hope you're right

but I thought “indefinite detainment” was pretty much hated by the public too.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

this

"The Kings have nothing to lose but their games."

by SactoRyan on Jan 18, 2012 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Not such a no-brainer

I can think of a certain topic that is huge in the California medical world where he supported those businesses that followed state laws, then went back on that recently due to the technical wording of his proclamation.

That said, I usually like my basketball to be politics free, although thats been hard with all the arena/relocation drama and now politicians may impact my sports/internet reading.

by SharkKings49 on Jan 18, 2012 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

what that really shows

it wasn’t so much a policy reversal as the president has a LOT less power over the day to day operations of federal agencies than most people think.

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Jan 18, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Similar to the National Defense Act,

except not nearly as bad.

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Jan 18, 2012 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

This is all true

But don’t lose sight of the problem: intellectual property is being stolen, and the Internet is not only perpetuating it, but spreading it.

I completely agree that this is not the way it should be dealt with, but it must be dealt with.

In short: condemn the proposed solution, not the need for a solution.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 8:34 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Does elvis's music need to still be under copyright today?

He’s been dead for 20 years – he got the full value of his intellectual property. Why isn’t that public domain/benefit now?

I’m not saying piracy is right, but I’m also not going to simply agree that the current copyright system is ok either.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Why should music be different?

Should Coca Cola be free now, as it’s been around for 125 years? Is the founder of Ford still alive?

Not sure about the US laws, but here, musical compositions remain under copyright for 70 years after the death of the last contributor. For recordings I believe it is 50 years after release. I’d say that is reasonable.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 8:51 AM PST up reply actions  

That's kind of a straw man there

Coca-cola is a product, so since it involves resource collection, processing, and delivery, it’s never going to be free regardless of intellectual property laws.

Tell me why 70 years (an entire lifetime) after death of the creator is a ‘reasonable’ copyright. Copyright laws are supposed to protect and encourage innovation, not stymie it. Once the creator has passed on, he/she doesn’t need those protections anymore, so a short span of 5-10 years to protect their business partners seems reasonable, but 70?.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I was a music/audio major and studied some music business...

and from what I’ve seen, the music business isn’t exactly ethical or run with much, if any, integrity.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:13 AM PST up reply actions  

This opinion

Is a hangover from days when it was true. There is far too much legislation and potential repercussion for music businesses to continue a lot of these practices.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

My experiences are fairly recent (finished my studies in '05)

and I found many practices that I feel actually hurt music as a whole. We can agree that piracy is a problem—is it killing music—no. The music industry has always had trouble keeping up with the times and it is butting them in the behind.

We are likely to respectfully disagree here, so I’ll spare this blog the details. While I feel there is some validity to these claims, they just aren’t telling the whole story.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

biting* them. Auto-correct strikes again.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I worked at a label

until October last year and I now work at a publisher. The structuring of deals these days are very fair and are a million times better for artists/composers than they used to be. Furthermore, labels and publishers are renegotiating the worst of the historic deals, so that they are more in line with modern, fairer deals.

Having said that:

The music industry has always had trouble keeping up with the times

So true.

The times, they are a changing…

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

While I respect your opinion...

and you obviously know more than I about the inner-workings of the music business, where we likely disagree is what we consider “fair.” Perhaps deals work a bit differently across the pond.

With that said: I’m glad someone like yourself, who appears to have integrity, is working on the business side of music. Music certainly appears to be better off in Britain (I read somewhere today that you reside in the U.K., correct me if I’m wrong); a lot of great stuff is making its way to the states.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank you

I take this kind of thing seriously because it isn’t the big wigs that get laid off when things go south for the industry. It’s us lowly ones. I have seen friends fall victim to this and it sucks.

There is some good music out there, but there is also some shite. Sadly, the money is going into the shite, because it can make a quick buck from teenagers. There’s nobody investing in the next U2…

Having said that, Adele (though it’s not my thing) shows that people will buy good music if it is good enough. The trick? Finding something good enough…

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Sadly, the money is going into the shite, because it can make a quick buck from teenagers.

This is a major reason music is such poor shape out here in the states. Companies are investing in “stars” instead of searching for new and refreshing music. I’m still amazed that these karaoke contests on TV are so popular and are considered as great ways to search for “talent.”

My wife loves Adele (and Florence and the Machine, come to think of it), by the way.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Florence is fantastic

But the X Factor/Pop Idol thing is a tragedy… Albeit a prosperous one.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

If you were to somehow perfectly replicate Coca-Cola and distribute it, would you see that as fair because it is old? Pepsi doesn’t count because it isn’t identical. It’s a competitor.

70 years is reasonable. i don’t see why it should expire at all. Royalties for dead musicians/composers are paid to their estate, or their inheritors. Why should this stop? If your father has millions in the bank ad then dies, should those millions be distributed to the public 5-10 years after he dies? No, so why should it be different for any other asset?

And how does this stymie innovation? Music companies don’t invest in new talent without money from established talent. Cutting that short would stymie new music development – something we’ve seen increasingly over the last few years since the advent of illegal file sharing.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Music is thriving, in my opinion; the music business however...

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

at least in the Techno genres

it’s going batshit because of the dubstep revolution, “despite” the ease of availability.

I hate dubstep! maybe we should limit accessibility again.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

there's some great independent stuff though

Granted you have to do a lot of homework but it’s there

Here’s a good intro for you with a bunch of great references to great sites. There really is a ton of stuff out there.

by wallywagon11 on Jan 18, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly, there is more music than I can keep up with, which is fantastic.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:47 AM PST up reply actions  

which flies in the face

of the assertion that shorter copyrights will stymie innovation, since music companies won’t invites in new talent. This talent is coming of age on its own without that investment, a function of the cheaper access to good audio equipment available these days.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

So 70 years for a copyright is ok when it’s a gene sequence that’s copyrighted? or seeds used to grow food? at some point the claiming of ideas that the public would benefit from general use of for profit is in direct opposition to the public good.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m no expert in DNA or agriculture, but I’m pretty sure you can’t copyright a discovery of something natural.

Besides, it’s not like music isn’t widely available legally. It just isn’t free.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't be so sure:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1013_051013_gene_patent.html

Patent is different from Copyright, but patenting obvious natural phenomena is real, and a problem.

The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller

by rpmonkey on Jan 18, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I remember reading

about a lawsuit apple filed against Samsung claiming that a square tablet was under their copyright.

Square is not and should not be copyrightable.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

it's all branches of the same problem to me

Monsanto, Apple, whoever – part of the current paradigm of operations by big business in the US is warfare through copyright and lawsuit. it’s not really an environment that incentivises start ups.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

One can also argue

that without some of the copyright and patents you run into issues where people will be less likely to invest plus you run into issues of consumer confidence. Emphasis on “some” though.

To be honest though, it’s not a field that excites me very much either way outside of big time pharmaeuticals and issues like antiretrovial medications in such places like South Africa.

by wallywagon11 on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

much music nowadays -is- free

just wander around on www.soundcloud.com for a while. I suspect some of it is violating a copyright, but I’m also sure much of it isn’t.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Doesn’t help when the RIAA/MPAA one of the biggest proponents of this bill,used music for an ad that was not theirs, and did not ask permission to use..They are currently getting sued for it too..

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 18, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Why should music be different is a good question.

To me for music or any other IP-related asset, the question is at what point does it cease to be property of the artist/producer/company and begin to become the property of the consumer.

The analogy of the Coke doesn’t make sense to me because once Coke has sold that case to a wholesaler or a retailer they are now out of the picture. They no longer get a cut of any future sales and they are not involved in how that Coke case moves throughout the world whether to a Little League park or to be sold off the back of a donkey in the middle of nowhere.

What music, movies and some other areas have been able to do is a fashion a structure where they never have to give up the property. To me as long as the model is used you will never be able to solve that problem. Once I’ve paid for the product, whether it is a physical cd or an electronic file, I feel like I should have ownership of that property. If you do not want me to have ownership of that property then you have the right to not create a cd, not create a digital file, and not make those available to the public. But to create a product, sell it to me, then complain about how I use the product – that’s ridiculous.

I complete agree that the artist/company should retain rights to the song and how future distribution should be done – but once you’ve made the decision on how you distribute a product then you should no longer own that product once it is sold.

by Madzillagd on Jan 18, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The product is yours

Like the Coke. You can use it as you wish, like the Coke.

You cannot make unauthorised copies and distribute them for free or for money.

Again, like the Coke.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

it's a copy

not the original. if i choose to make a copy because my 3 yr old will inevitably scratch the cd i bought i don’t see that as an infringement on the artists rights. the artist was paid for that product at the point of purchase and what i do with it is my business. if i choose to sell copies – that’s bootlegging and that is illegal. But if I choose to freely give away my original or my copy that’s my choice.

artists are being paid on the initial distribution of their music. many get paid before they record a note. they get paid again when their cds get sold. they get paid a % based on online saies, they get paid a % from streaming sites. there are a wide variety of avenues that the artist is getting paid on the initial distribution of the product.

what they are complaining about is they aren’t getting paid on the secondary distribution of music – some would argue this secondary market is bigger than the primary distribution. But, the answer isn’t to force a shut down of the secondary market because that won’t work – the cat’s out of the bag and even SOPA won’t put it back in. The only way for the industry to truly solve the problem is for them to improve their primary distribution methods. the more the primary distribution improves with itunes, pandora, spotify etc. the less there will be a need for a secondary market.

by Madzillagd on Jan 18, 2012 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't anyone cares if you burn a CD,

In fact, some newer CDs alot two copies from the original; the issue is when people give away there CDs and still keep a copy for themselves. Outside of digital retail this isn’t possible. If I give away, say, a guitar, I don’t get to play guitar unless I buy a new one, or get my old one back. What some of the more reasonable music business enthusiasts are asking for, is for the digital purchases to be treated similarly to physical purchases. Whether this is right or not is up to each individual.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry your guitar theory doesn’t compute, because to make a 2nd one requires manual labor, parts, money and craftsmanship..To make a copy of the song, you need about 15 seconds and a computer..Hell you could make millions of copies for nothing

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 18, 2012 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

That's besides my poorly constructed point.

It’s not about manufacturing costs, it’s about making sure the artist gets paid for each piece of music that is “owned” (you don’t actually own the music) by someone. If you burn 20 copies of an album and give it out to your friends, that’s 20 copies that the artist didn’t get paid for. This can (and does) really add up to a big problem for small artists.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 19, 2012 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I do understand this and I agree, The only time i get music from friends, is when i am looking for new artist..They burn me a copy of a CD to listen to, And if i enjoy it then 100% of the time i will go buy their album..Usually I like to do it from concerts (The musician makes more money from CD sales at concerts then from stores/itunes)

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 19, 2012 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

completely disagree with the small artist comment

small artists don’t make $$ of their music sales – that’s why they are small artists. the majority of $$ made by artists comes through touring and playing live shows. nobody is getting rich off of selling 20,000 cds. the recording costs, manufacturing costs, distribution costs, and marketing costs are too high for smaller artists to make a profit off of their music with the current industry structure.

the bands that understand this are smart enough to embrace the technology and open up their content to the masses because they know the more people that listen to their music for free, eventually their legit sales will rise (or remain steady over time) and their live shows will bring in more people.

Sacramento’s Deftones is a great example of that. I’ve got 50+ live concerts downloaded that they put out on their own website for fans to download for free which were eventually pulled off when Maverick figured out they were doing it. But supporting their fan base they’ve been able to maintain a steady following and make $$ on live shows despite relatively minor cd sales over the last decade.

by Madzillagd on Jan 19, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not about getting rich, it's about getting by.

Small artists need every penny they can muster, whether that be from music sales, t-shirts, or concert tickets. I’m well aware that touring is the main revenue source for artists, big and small, and that giving samples of their music away can be used for promotional purposes. However, how often do see artists giving away an entire album? It happens, but it’s the exception, not the rule.

As for the Deftones, I wouldn’t consider them a small artist. They’ve achieved some mainstream success, which makes giving away their music much easier, as they can afford it. Anyway, I don’t see them giving away a full length studio album. It’s easy to give away live recordings, they’ve already been paid from the tickets sold.

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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 19, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Mad -

I think the biggest difference is that the consumer (or hell, the wholesaler or retailer) of a Coke product can’t make a bazillion physical copies of that can of coke and put them up for grabs free of charge to whomever wants them.

It’s completely apples and oranges.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

of course they can't,

because they don’t have a bottling factory. This coke comparison is as relevant as that guy with the stolen car analogy.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

So by your logic

If tomorrow there was a way to copy and distribute Coke to the masses with little or no effort, it would suddenly be okay?

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Man, you're unnecessarily agressive

but whatever.

“Cola” is not copyrighted – the result, we have many cola choices.

“Coke” is copyrighted – the result, we have whatever choices they decide we have for it.

If someone’s going to patent DNA, it’s less choices, less research, and a higher cost for the public to benefit from that science for the benefit of a few collecting the money. I’m not OK with that situation, but apparently you are. whatever.

You believe people should be able to make unlimited profit off of something indefinitely, and I think that at some point there’s a time say that’s enough profit, time for the entire population to benefit from the discovery.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

As I said before

I know little about how this applies to DNA etc, but with music, it’s out there for all to enjoy. You can buy the CD, download a legal copy, stream it on a Spotify equivalent or even listen to the radio. You can watch the video on YouTube or Vevo, you can watch MTV…

At what point does this restrict the general public from benefiting from the discovery, or in this case, composition?

by Rickyflip on Jan 19, 2012 5:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey, I asked somewhere else: what are the "The damage it does"

Based on your past position in the industry, I’m still really interested in hearing this perspective rather than arguing straw men with you.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't know about the States

But over here, music sales have declined so rapidly, we have gone from having several major retail outlets for CDs (Woolworths, Virgin, HMV most prominent among them) to having one – HMV. They have been slowly giving up music shop space to gaming, books and film in a bid to stay afloat, but they are making losses and may not last the year.

Add to that the number of people in the record industry that have lost their jobs in cost saving exercises – something I know isn’t exclusive to music, but telling that to a recently laid off colleague is little comfort.

Finally, the spreading of the notion that music is free and unlimited will do the most damage. Joe Bloggs in the street will be reluctant to buy music when he discovers he can download it for nothing. Why spend £10 on a CD, when he can have the music for free after a few clicks?

The more people that have that attitude, the worse off the people in the music industry will be.

by Rickyflip on Jan 19, 2012 5:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Sorry I dont believe its because music sales are declining rapidly, i believe more people get their music digitally and on the go. Also the loss of jobs is because the music industry has failed to properly keep up with technology, and they are paying for that. The sheer profit of a cd vs digital download is truly outstanding, and the bigwigs of these companies are A: Raking the profit in and B: Using it to pay more towards lobbying and lawyer fees.

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 19, 2012 7:37 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

i believe more people get their music digitally and on the go.

This is fine if it is done legally. Although legal downloads are on the up, it mostly isn’t done legally.

the music industry has failed to properly keep up with technology, and they are paying for that.

I couldn’t agree more. The download thing really hit the industry hard, and the response was slow and inadequate. The heavy handed approach of these 2 bills is just another example of that. That being said, unauthorised downloads are still illegal and should therefore be stopped.

With regard to profits, the overheads on digital distribution are almost nothing. CDs are cheap for sure, but you have to keep making them to keep selling them. A lot needs to change in the industry before it can function on solely download income.

Lobbyists etc are paid for by trade bodies like the BPI here (RIAA there I think), which function on a membership fee. It has always been thus. Perhaps these bodies should invest in technology research instead, but they are so focused on the income lost to illegal downloading that this R & D is left to (and probably duplicated by) the individual labels and publishers.

by Rickyflip on Jan 19, 2012 8:48 AM PST up reply actions  

But also a lot of their income is lost because music now a days is mostly crap..and people are usually buying singles rather then albums . Also the ability to preview all the tracks of an album are making consumers a lot more picky on what they buy. If 1/2 the CD’s i owned were available as singles, i would have a lot more money in my pocket.

Regarding Lobbying, yes it has always been there, but they are having to put more into nowadays as the politicians have more and more expensive campaigns.

Not only do you have to make them over and over, but you must have huge factories for all the different components

Funny enough there were some reports released on EFF website talking about Piracy is down, as more musicians are making their older music available free on the websites and such..Most pirates i know download 100gbs of music for maybe 1gb worth of music they listen to, and most of that music is overseas releases, live concerts, and albums out of print and not available for download.

Now one thing that concert promoters could do to get more people there are to sell digital copies of the concert you just went to for say for 5 bucks. Wouldn’t cost them a thing, you buy a code at the concert, go to a website and download it as a 1 time thing, and have it available for whenever you want to watch..I would do this every time for concerts

Founder of team Omté Caspeen

by Widowwolf on Jan 19, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Itunes is quite possibly as responsible for the decline in record industry jobs as piracy

When I spend money on healthcare, I want it to go doctors/labs/nurses, not insurance companies.
When I spend money on music, I want it to go to musicians, not middlemen.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 19, 2012 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

makes me think of....

i used to be able to walk into Brew It Up, tell the brewmaster a beer I liked and he could hand me a recipe that would produce a beer that tasted exactly like the beer I had requested. I very much doubt they had ‘the recipe’ of the company that produces that beer, but they have the skill to be able to duplicate it. Not sure the legality of that since they are assumingly not using ‘the recipe’ of that company.

by Madzillagd on Jan 18, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

false delimma. 10 yards from the spot of the foul, automatic FIRST DOWN

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Jan 18, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

sooooo, you have never ever watched or listened to a burned copy of some intellectual property? or, how about a nice mix tape? nor ever (back in the day) recorded an album onto a cassette tape from a friend? no, never?

by gaindeyouth on Jan 18, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

As a kid

Who didn’t make mix tapes or tape stuff off the radio? 2 points though…

1. The scale is entirely different. A song dubbed onto a tape isn’t nearly as damaging as millions of people downloading an illegal music file.

2. Once I learned the law and the damage it does, I stopped. I never download music/film illegally. I never buy from the dodgy guy with the bag of DVDs in the pub.

by Rickyflip on Jan 18, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Since you're in the industry

could you elaborate on “the damage it does” – I’d like to hear the insider’s perspective.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm interested as well.

“The damage it does” certainly contains many variables that, some believe, are open to interpretation.

I will say, like Rickyflip, I don’t download anything illegally—not because of a fear of getting caught, but because I want to make sure the artist gets compensated for their work. That’s also why when I listen to the radio, its Pandora; they appear to give money where it is due.

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I stopped pirating music years and years ago

mostly because the online legal streaming avenues, like grooveshark and pandora, and finding websites where I can buy music I want at a reasonable cost.

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep, that's where I am as well

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

its the same slippery slope. and hypocrisy lives and breathes.

by gaindeyouth on Jan 18, 2012 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Piracy isn't theft.

If you park your car at the curb, and I then drive it off into the sunset….but your car is still parked at the curb where you left it, did I “steal” from you?

Also, if the money you spend at the box office is used to circumvent democracy and impose draconian legislation, doesn’t the pirate have the moral high-ground?

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, if the money you spend at the box office is used to circumvent democracy and impose draconian legislation, doesn’t the pirate have the moral high-ground?

There is no moral high-ground in this scenario, in my opinion.

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow, talk about apples and oranges

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Well - it's a ridiculous analogy that has no value here in the real world

And quite frankly, I don’t think this is the place to argue this kind of issue. Or probably any place, for that matter – it’s hard to convince a thief he’s a thief when he’s convinced he’s “sticking it to the man”.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

My point is simply that piracy is, by definition, not theft. My post was in reply to an assertion to the contrary. My post was also in the comments section of an article about piracy. If you don’t think this is the appropriate place for the debate, than you can either A. Shhhh or B. Take it up with Tom Ziller.

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks much

I really had no clue how the site operates (or the internet for that matter).

Keep parsing away, Robin Hood.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Right, but I didn't want to say it.

On the bright side, there may be a spot in congress for you.

Will do. ;)

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

As a side note

I’d like to point out the fact that you have copied the intellectual property of Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant and distributed it on the internet 18,243 times.

Thief?

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

If I may butt in here...

As humorous as your claim is, it is silly. I don’t see how otis29’s sig takes away any revenue from The Office and its creators, in fact, he gives them credit by displaying the character Michael Scott’s name.

It was a humorous way to make your point though.

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

We are all entitled to our opinion

But the MPAA and RIAA disagree with you.

I won’t pretend to know your understanding of copyright law, but it’s been my observation that a good portion of people currently debating SOPA/PIPA operate under the assumption that copyright law is, more or less, the same as it was twenty years ago. This is false.

Bird Law on the other hand…

Ooops.

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

So...

Blackbeard. Not a thief.

Gotcha.

Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 18, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

lol, really?

When Blackbeard was using violence to rape and pillage his victims of tangible goods, Blackbeard was a thief. But when Blackbeard nestled in for the night to download a COPY of “The Curse Of The Black Pearl”, Blackbeard was, quite obviously, not a thief.

As we’re in that time period, it’s important to remember that if it were not for colonial publishers COPYing works of European literature for distribution in the Americas, our revolution very well may not have happened.

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

*Sigh*

Piracy is a type of theft. You are equating it with stealing physical property, which is misleading.

When you buy a CD, it is yours, but the music on it (and the sound recording itself, but let’s not over-complicate this) remains the intellectual property of the creator(s). If you distribute copies of this, by physically burning it or by file sharing, then you are giving away someone else’s property without remunerating them.

It is the same with film. What gives you the right to download a film for free? Just because you can doesn’t mean you have the right to.

by Rickyflip on Jan 19, 2012 5:18 AM PST up reply actions  

My point is simply that piracy is, by definition, not theft.

Okay but if you park my car at the curb and you then drive it off into the sunset….but my car is still parked at the curb where I left it, you didn’t “pirate” it you at best committed unlawful use of a motor vehicle (a misdemeanor) or at worst possibly committed larceny depending on the facts (but unlikely given what you wrote).

by wallywagon11 on Jan 18, 2012 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

No

To commit unlawful use I would have to have stolen it. But I didn’t, because it’s still parked at the curb.

And of course not larceny because I carried nothing away.

by secretplans on Jan 18, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

From what I've heard Obama is going to shoot it down if it makes it through congress

The problem I see is further down the road when some politician sneaks it into a much larger bill.

However, with Google being all over it. They’ll likely being able to shoot it down then too since by that time Google will likely have taken over the world

by HeuristicLineup on Jan 18, 2012 9:04 AM PST reply actions  

How long before this planet is really called "Google Earth?"

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:09 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He said he would shoot down the NDAA too

Then when everyone was distracted with NYE he signed it quietly while vacationing in Hawaii. Don’t believe anything Obama says. He’s full of sh*t.

FYI I’m not a right winger or republican. Nor am I a left winger. I judge a politician not by his party but by his actions. To me Obama was basically a 3rd Bush term. Mitt Romney will carry on the same policies I guaranty it.

by Allbenji on Jan 18, 2012 9:11 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

They'll be playing the same tired game as long as people keep eating it up every national election.

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 9:14 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It's extra bad this year

I voted Obama because I hated the Bush W. years so much.

In return for my vote, I got a 3rd Bush W. term, but with different cronies.

barf

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly my thoughts

When the “NDAA” came afloat I remember Obama saying he would veto it. For some reason I thought that was “unconstitutional” and agreed with Obama and thought, man Obama is making the right decision to automatically veto this crazy bill. And then…. What the CRAP! Obama!! This is a big deal and he completely lost me on him as president after that.

by Chent on Jan 18, 2012 9:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

you do realize it passed with a veto-proof (and it wasn't close) majority, right?

Sharlon Schoop - honkbalspeler extraordinaire.
Trolls are like cockroach Nazis. Sure, you CAN try to reason with them, but they won't listen, and if you respond to them, they invade your Sudetenland.
Or something.
That metaphor got away from me.

by Viliphied on Jan 18, 2012 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

which brings up a good question

if Congress can’t compromise in the slightest to pass a budget, how do they get so unified on something like this?

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Then why say he would veto?

Lying just to lie? Hoping no one notices what you just pointed out? That’s much better.

by Allbenji on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, that was boneheaded

But sadly, the NDAA really didn’t ping on the radars of most Americans.

This issue, on the other hand, is taylor made for him. With all the “occupy” stuff still happening, and American’s general discontent with big business – this idea of entertainment conglomerates shutting down websites without due process would seem to resonate.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 11:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Methinks you misunderestimate the apathy of the average American

Even if it passes and he changes his mind ala NDAA and signs it anyway, I think you see an uproar from the tech community, but until sites actually start shutting down most Americans won’t give a fig. Even then, Hollywood and the RIAA have been very good at convincing people that it’s for their own good.

The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller

by rpmonkey on Jan 18, 2012 12:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Disagree

Look who he’s going to be running against: Mr. Capitalism himself.

You think Obama’s going to leave this one on the table???

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

wouldn't Mr Capitalism be against SOPA?

since an arbitrarily censored internet would be the opposite of a free market?

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Using the assumption that politicians stand on their own principles rather than the ones of those who paid them the most

then you would be correct. Unfortunately, I fear that that is a false assumption for most politicians.

The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller

by rpmonkey on Jan 18, 2012 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

100% agree

I lost my very last bit of that naivete during the Obama presidency

"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 18, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I highly doubt it

An arbitrarily censored internet is pretty vague and ephemeral. Big movie, television and record companies are considerably more tangible.

I have a feeling we’ll find out soon enough though.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

SAVE INTERNET PORN!!!

"Contraction, I didn't say anything about contraction. I'm talking about shrinking the league." - Lebron James

"Believe it or not, I was not always as awesome as I am today." - Barney

by DTG13 on Jan 18, 2012 9:09 AM PST via Android app reply actions  

...but not on your hard drive

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 18, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Link

SOPA and PIPA are on the ropes, but it’s time to throw a knockout punch.

As the web prepares for the biggest protest in its history, we’re launching a new campaign at VoteForTheNet.com.

Will you sign our pledge to work against candidates who support Internet censorship?

http://voteforthenet.com/

VoteForTheNet.com will serve as a hub for electoral activism against SOPA and PIPA, and in support of a free Internet.

Politicians need to understand that they’ll feel heat from the voters if they stand against a free Internet and freedom of expression.

by Word_Jockey on Jan 18, 2012 9:24 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Something important that you don't mention here

In the original SOPA bill, at least (not sure if they’ve stripped it out already or not), there was a mechanism where sites would be completely shut down (temporarily) if there is a complaint against them that they are supporting copyright infringement. In other words, there is the potential that TNT or whoever decided that there are too many links to illicit sports streams floating around on SBN sites (despite the best attempts of site mods to squash them) and, BOOM, StR goes dark. I don’t think that supporters of the bills necessarily want to see something like that happen, but that’s the point- these bills open up a lot of scary doors that support a “shoot first, ask questions later” dynamic and seem to place the rights of the few above the rights of the many.

"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie

by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 18, 2012 9:42 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

I think that's exactly what scares most people about this legislation

Funny, in a way I’m almost hoping something like this passes. You want to get young people fired up and involved? Fuck with their internet.

"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2012 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

That certainly could be one way to remove the ever-present apathy.

Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...

by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh this is so green

LPA nails it again…

On a more serious note, there are 2 main problems with the legislation as written: #1 is well documented just above by ASSN), and #2 is the fact that restricting the DNS will actually not stop the traffic (redirectors are already rampant, and this would just make their spread go more mainstream).

The trick is to shut down the illegal files/goods themselves and the users which are mainly responsible for the violations without targeting the website operators (the recent PirateBay case proved going after the operators is futile and generally a waste of time) — the problem is keeping up with the speed of the internet and tracking/controlling the p2p/torrent/filesharing communities. Ultimately, they will need to police themselves — threatening DNS removal is not a useful tool to encourage more responsible respect of copyright; actively placing download holds on the files/goods in question (and ultimately removing them) would be a better solution, but who has the time for this level of oversight, and who should be authorized to serve as the internet police?

We’re slowly coming to the end of the wild west days on the information superhighways, but fascism is hardly a better alternative.

時國王驕奢,不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
When Kings are too proud and extravagant, they do not obey the rules and regulations, and thus end up in foul trouble.
_Book_of_the_Later_Han_ (ca. 400 A.D.)

by sj60615 on Jan 18, 2012 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

interesting story

http://gizmodo.com/5877612/feds-kill-megaupload feds shut down major piracy site whose CEO happens to be a rap producer and alicia keys husband

by Madzillagd on Jan 19, 2012 12:15 PM PST reply actions  

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