Trying to make sense of it all
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I am going to attempt to find the similarities between all of the playoff bound teams in the Western Confrence. I want to look at how their starting unit fits together and what makes them similar. I will do this by looking at each team position by position and see if I can draw some similarities between the players at that position and where we stand at that same position.
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Lets look at the PG situations on these playoff bound teams. I am going to use ASST/TO ration, because in my opinion that is what a good PG should be measured by. He should make others around him better, while limiting his TO’s.
Team: Player ASST/TO
LAC: CP3 8.4/2.2
LAL: Fisher 4.2/1.3
Dal: Kidd 5.4/2.2
HOU: Lowry 8.7/3.7
MEM: Conley 7.4/2.4
SA: Parker 8.1/2.6
DEN: Lawson 6.7/2.6
OKC: Westbrook 5.6/3.4
POR: Felton 7.1/2.8
UTAH: Harris 4.5/2.1
SAC: Evans 4.4/2.7
Slightly over half of these teams have an efficient PG running the show. The Lakers, Thunder and Jazz don’t. The Lakers have Kobe playing lead guard, so they don’t need a true PG. The Jazz are winning with a combo of PG play as Harris is 4.5/2.1 and the backup Watson is a similar 4.9/1.9. The Thunder seem to be the exception, Westbrrok is about the exact opposite of a true PG, but he can score anywhere on the floor and has a guy named Durant that has the ball in his hands a ton. The Mavs have a true PG in Kidd, his numbers are down, but expect them to come closer to the 8.2/2.2 Asst/TO he put up last year. Two of the teams have their best player at this spot (CP3, Lowry), I have Manu slightly better then Parker, but just slightly.
Onto the SG’s. I’m going to use FG/3pt/ split as well as height and weight, because a SG should be able to shoot and size is big on defense for guarding other SG’s.
Team: Player FG/3pt Height weight
LAC: Billups 35/38 6’3 210
LAL: Bryant 46/26 6’6 205
DAL: Terry 41/37 6’2 180
HOU: Martin 42/32 6’7 185
MEM: Allen 48/20 6’4 213
SA: Manu 59/52 6’6 205
DEN: Afflalo 43/38 6’5 215
OKC: Sefolosha 49/55 6’7 215
POR: Matthews 41/35 6’5 220
UTAH: Bell 46/36 6’5 210
SAC: Thorton 40/33 6’4 205
As far as SG’s go we have a pretty wide range. It seems most teams have good defenders at the SG spot, that can spot shoot. Their size vary from 6’2-6’7 180-220lbs. Two of the teams have their best player at this spot (Kobe, Manu), I have Lowry better then Martin.
Now for the SF spot. I am going to use PPG, 3pt %, Reb, height and weight. I am using these stats because a lot of these teams have their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd options on offense here and their best defenders.
Team: Player PPG/3%/REB Height Weight
LAC: Butler 14.8/30%/4.2 6’7 228
LAL: Barnes 8.1/21%/5.1 6’7 226
DAL: Marion 11.8/43%/6.1 6’7 228
HOU: Parsons 6.8/26%/5.5 6’9 200
MEM: Gay 18.9/29%/6.2 6’8 230
SA: Jefferson 10.9/46%/3.1 6’7 230
DEN: Gallinari 17.4/31%/5.2 6’10 225
OKC: Durant 25.7/33%/7.2 6’9 235
POR: Wallace 14.2/28%/7.2 6’7 220
Utah: Hayward 8.4/27%/2.9 6’8 210
Sac: Salmons 7.1/22%/3.2 6’6 207
The SF’s on this list are not as big as I thought they would be, about the same size as our PG (we’ll get to that later). They average out at about 6’7.5 228lbs. What I notice about this list, is that all of these guys are above average defenders, except for Parsons and Hayward. Three of the teams have their best player at this position (Gay, Gallinari, Durant).
Now for the PF’s. The stats that I am going to use for this position are PPG/REB/BLK. I am using these stats because these are the most common stats used to judge a PF.
Team: Player PPG/REB/BLK
LAC: Griffin 21/11.5/.57
LAL: Gasol 15.8/9.3/1.39
Dal: Nowitzki 17.5/5.4/.56
HOU: Scola 15.3/5.7/.24
Memph: Randolph 14.8/7.5/.5
SA:Blair 10.6/6.1/.22
DEN: Harrington 15.5/5.7/.12
OKC: Ibaka 6.6/6.4/2.65
POR: Aldridge 22.7/9.2/.71
Utah: Millsap 16.6/8.7/.67
SAC: Cousins 14.6/10.8/1.47
The PF’s on this are some big time names. What I notice from this list is that we ACTUALLY have someone who is just as talented as most of the other players on this list!!!!!Soooo lets move on!!
Now for the C position. I will be using the same stats as I used for the PF’s.
Team: Player PPG/REB/BLK
LAC: Jordan 8/8.6/3
LAL: Bynum 15.9/9.5/1.79
DAL: Haywood 5.2/6.4/.83
HOU: Dally 8.7/8.4/2
MEM: Gasol 15.2/10.6/2.5
SA: Duncan 13.5/7.3/1
DEN: Nene 13.4/9.1/1
OKC: Perkins 5.1/5.8/1.24
POR: Camby 3.1/8/1.29
UTAH: Jefferson 18.3/9.4/1.5
SAC: Hayes 5.6/7.8/.38
Looking at the list of C’s on this list you’ll notice one thing in common, with the exception of Haywwod, these guys protect the basket. Most teams have guys here that play good defense, block shots and get rebounds. There are only a few stars here Bynum, Gasol, Nene, Jefferson.
Now for the coaches…
LAC: Del Negro
LAL: Mike Brown
DAL: Ric Carlisle
HOU: Kevin Mchale
MEM: Lionel Hollins
SA: Greg Popovich
DEN: George Karl
OKC: Scott Brooks
POR: Nate Mcmillan
Utah: Tyrone Corbin
A pretty odd list of guys. You have two HOF’s in Popovich and Karl, while the rest are guys that didn’t have a lot of experience before taking their jobs with their respective teams (except for Mike Brown and Rick Carlisle). I like Smart as a coach, and think we should give him a shot.
What should we do? I believe that our roster is flawed. I also believe that we have talent, it just doesn’t mesh well. The good news is that we are in a great position to make some moves, if our owners are willing to shell out some money (I know, BIG IF). We have some guys on our roster who I actually think could fetch us some quality player in return (JT, Thorton, Evans). We also have what looks to be a pretty high draft pick coming this year, not to mention our next years draft pick would be pretty valuable as well. We also have a lot of cap room.
I know a lot of people probably cringed when I wrote Tyrekes name as a player to be traded. The reality is that I think both the organization and Tyreke could both benefit from a fresh start. Tyreke is the only one on our roster that could fetch us a valuable piece that we need. I am a big Tyreke fan, but I am a bigger Kings fan. It would be hard to see Tyreke go. Tyreke has been a fan favorite since his rookie campaign. He made a lousy team watchable and gave us some hope for the future. He was rookie of the year, while putting up numbers only 3 other men in the history of the NBA had put up. Yes, you all know 20-5-5. Those numbers grouped him with 3 NBA greats, Lebron, MJ, and the Big O. We all rejoiced and figured his career would be similar to those 3 and lead us back to the promised land. Since that campaign however, the career arcs of the 3 players mentioned and Tyrekes career, have gone in very different directions. While the other 3 guys numbers improved, Tyrekes have gotten worse.
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Evans
|
Tyreke Evans |
|
|
Year |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
OFF |
DEF |
RPG |
APG |
SPG |
BPG |
TO |
PF |
PPG |
|
09-10 |
SAC |
72 |
72 |
37.2 |
0.458 |
0.255 |
0.748 |
0.9 |
4.4 |
5.3 |
5.8 |
1.5 |
0.4 |
3.00 |
2.83 |
20.1 |
|
10-11 |
SAC |
57 |
53 |
37.0 |
0.409 |
0.291 |
0.771 |
0.8 |
4.0 |
4.8 |
5.6 |
1.5 |
0.5 |
3.23 |
2.51 |
17.8 |
|
11-12 |
SAC |
18 |
18 |
35.3 |
0.410 |
0.250 |
0.748 |
1.1 |
3.9 |
5.1 |
4.4 |
1.4 |
0.4 |
2.72 |
1.94 |
16.1 |
|
Career |
-- |
147 |
143 |
36.9 |
0.433 |
0.271 |
0.755 |
0.9 |
4.2 |
5.1 |
5.5 |
1.5 |
0.4 |
3.05 |
2.60 |
18.7 |
Lebron
|
Career Season Averages |
|
|
Year |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
OFF |
DEF |
RPG |
APG |
SPG |
BPG |
TO |
PF |
PPG |
|
03-04 |
CLE |
79 |
79 |
39.5 |
0.417 |
0.290 |
0.754 |
1.3 |
4.2 |
5.5 |
5.9 |
1.6 |
0.7 |
3.46 |
1.89 |
20.9 |
|
04-05 |
CLE |
80 |
80 |
42.4 |
0.472 |
0.351 |
0.750 |
1.4 |
6.0 |
7.4 |
7.2 |
2.2 |
0.6 |
3.28 |
1.82 |
27.2 |
|
05-06 |
CLE |
79 |
79 |
42.5 |
0.480 |
0.335 |
0.738 |
0.9 |
6.1 |
7.0 |
6.6 |
1.6 |
0.8 |
3.29 |
2.29 |
31.4 |
Jordan
|
CAREER SEASON AVERAGES |
|
|
Year |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
OFF |
DEF |
RPG |
APG |
SPG |
BPG |
TO |
PPG |
|
|
1984-85 |
Chicago |
82 |
82 |
38.3 |
.515 |
.173 |
.845 |
2.0 |
4.5 |
6.5 |
5.9 |
2.4 |
0.8 |
3.55 |
28.2 |
|
|
1985-86 |
Chicago |
18 |
7 |
25.1 |
.457 |
.167 |
. 840 |
1.3 |
2.3 |
3.6 |
2.9 |
2.1 |
1.2 |
2.50 |
22.7 |
|
|
1986-87 |
Chicago |
82 |
82 |
40.0 |
.482 |
.182 |
. 857 |
2.0 |
3.2 |
5.2 |
4.6 |
2.9 |
1.5 |
3.32 |
37.1 |
Big O
|
CAREER SEASON AVERAGES |
|
|
Year |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
RPG |
APG |
PF |
PPG |
|||||
|
1960-61 |
Cincinnati |
71 |
|
42.7 |
.473 |
|
.822 |
|
|
10.1 |
9.7 |
|
|
|
3.10 |
30.5 |
|
1961-62 |
Cincinnati |
79 |
|
44.3 |
.478 |
|
.803 |
|
|
12.5 |
11.4 |
|
|
|
3.30 |
30.8 |
|
1962-63 |
Cincinnati |
80 |
|
44.0 |
.518 |
|
.810 |
|
|
10.4 |
9.5 |
|
|
|
3.70 |
28.3 |
Tyreke was the man his rookie year, literally. He was on a team that included the likes of Hilton Armstrong, Joey Dorsey, Desmond Mason, Sean May, Dominic McGuire, Noc, Sergio, Garrett Temple, K9, Udoka. Not exactly a playoff squad. He had the ball in his hands all the time, with good reason, so he filled up the stat sheet. With every assist, rebound, and basket scored their were ROY rallies 20/5/5 shirts and a whole lot of hoopla. You can’t really blame the organization, after all they were trying to sell tickets and merchandise for the worst team in the NBA. Since that season though, teams have obviously adapted to what Tyreke wants to do, he wants to get to the rim. His jump shot is well below average and his decision making is below average as well. This presents a problem, because he is our primary ball handler. There has been a lot of chatter around here and other sites that it doesn’t matter if he’s a PG or not, because he’s a lead guard. The Lakers don’t have a true PG, the Heat don’t have a true PG, the Bulls never had a true PG. That is true, but those teams lead guards were among the top 20 players of all time. I like Tyreke, but he’s no Kobe, MJ, Wade, Lebron. What could Tyreke get us? Im not to sure. Only GP knows that for sure.
I believe we could solve the PG problem on our roster right now. Jimmer or Thomas may be the PG of the future, but we need one now. There are two PG’s out their that want a starting gig somewhere else, Andre Miller and Mo Williams. Both guys are more then serviceable. I know there are a lot of people on this site that are’t big fans of Andre Miller. His game can be ugly at times, but he is a fierce competitor and winner. He’s 35, but he still has plenty left in the tank. He has been the starting PG of a playoff team 7 of the last 8 years. Mo Williams on the other hand, is not the pass first PG that Miller is. He is 29 years old. He is more of the Mike Bibby mold. His career ASST/TO ratio ,if you don’t count when he had Lebron on his team who dominated the ball, are about 6.3/2.8. He is a good outside shooter and was the 2nd best player on the CLE teams that had the back to back best record in the NBA. He also looks like a man on a mission this year to prove he is a starter somewhere shooting career highs across the board. I think that either one of these two could be had for JT and a 2nd rd pick. As I said in the trade thread, if POR doesn’t renew Nicholas Batums contract by tomorrow, he will be a RFA. We should offer him a big contract, and do to POR what they did to the Jazz with Wesley Mathews. He is worth it! As for Tyreke, if he could land us Granger or Paul Millsap, that would fill one of our other voids at SF PF. I’ve seen rumors that Granger is available, but Millsap would only be if Utah wanted to start playing Favors more. They have a lot of big men in Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, Kanter, and some big contracts with Harris, Millsap, and Jefferson. I would eat Harris’s contract if it meant getting Milsap(Maloofs, not so sure though). If you could net either one of these guys, you would fill one of our voids. The other void could be filled through FA.
GP is on a hot seat right now and he can’t just sit back and let us continue down the path of mediocrity. We need some changes, that is obvious. I do not envy his job, but I belive we have enough assets to get us pointed in the right direction. Go Kings!!
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
57 comments
|
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We should move Tyreke to SF
At this moment it is 100% with one vote. Case closed.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Now at 2 votes and now it's reality check time.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Okay, here's my actual thinking on the subject
We have a great front court player in Cousins, and decent -players in Hayes, JT, and maybe Hickson. (Still holding out hope.) We have Thornton who can only play the two. He is less of a PG than Evans and not big enough to play the 3.
At the 3 we have an even worse hydra than we had last year.
What we need are a starting PG and a starting SF. I believe that right now Evans is a better three than anyone we have on the floor. As a PG, he kills the offense. As a SG he has no outside shot to speak of. (Except beyond half court.) But he is a great cutter, a decent rebounder, a fair passer, and a very good defender.
Unless you can trade him for a PG or SF who is better than Evans is at the SF position, move him to the three where he can defend whoever you want, slashes, and doesn’t kill the flow of the game.
Now you have the following line-up:
Center—Hayes (Great interior defender, doesn’t demand the ball, veteran leadership)
PF—Cousins (Consistent double double, causes trouble for opposing bigs, solid rebounder and surprisingly good passer)
SF—Evans (Very good defender, decent rebounder, slashes to the hoop)
SG—MT (I know his shot is off right now. But come on. We’ve seen what he can do when his shot is on. With Beno at the PG, MT was a beast.)
PG—This is an issue right now. For the moment, we either start Jimmer and put him on the least likely to shoot player. Or we start IT, and tell him to focus on passing and stop jacking up shots.
In the off season, we amnesty Salmons, keep either Garcia or Greene to backup the three, and if Jimmer or IT haven’t earned the starting PG spot, we sign the best veteran PG we can get. In fact, even if they are playing well, we sign a solid starting PG. Then we draft another big man.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I still find it hard to see Tyreke at the 3
We’re burning Salmons, Donte and Outlaw at the cross because of their outside shooting but we’ll start Evans there even though he’s only shooting 25.7% on all of his shots away from the rim. Of course there is a good side to that move. Since he won’t have the ball because it will be in the hands of whoever starts at PG or Thornton, he won’t get that many opportunities to shot that crappy jumper. God know, Marcus isn’t going to pass to him.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Yep.
He would have to play more of a slashing game. But which is the worse poison? Evan’s PG skills, or his outside shooting? And can you hide his outside shooting more at the two or the three? I see him as more of an Artest type SF skill-wise.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Outside shooting to me. His passing has been fine since Smart got our offense moving.
Now if only we could hit some open jumpers. Ugh.
True, but more so I don't see the improvement at each position being that much better.
How much better is the team with IT or Jimmer at the 1, and how much better is the 3 with Tyreke playing over say Garcia. As bad as Salmons and Tyreke are shooting I don’t see Tyreke starting at the 3 as being that much better, and they both can drive to the basket.
IT isn’t shooting any better than Tyreke, and IT can’t finish at the rim like Tyreke can. I just don’t see changing the line up just to get IT moving the ball and getting a few assists since Tyreke has done a better job of doing that since Smart took over as you said.
And, if your going to start Jimmer at the 1, I’d rather he has a threat in the backcourt like Tyreke, rather than Salmons or Garcia.
For the Denver game, I’d like to see a Jimmer, Tyreke, Donte, JT, & Cuz starting line up with IT backing up the 1, Salmons the 2, Garcia the 3, and JJ the 4. Salmons would get less minutes playing behind Reke, unless Donte had to play some 4.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 24, 2012 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
I think we leave Tyreke at PG
Before the Portland and Memphis games, he wasn’t playing that bad at PG. Like Jerry says, he would have a lot more assists if his teammates hit their open shots. When the team starts sucking, that’s when Reke starts becoming more selfish and makes bad decisions. If we were to trade Reke for say Rondo, I still think we would be a bad team. Our PG spot isn’t our only problem.
I hate all these nerdy stats
in our 12 losses the closest weve been is within 7 points, and that was orlando without howard (basically hardly played due to foul trouble). weve played what 18 games and weve been blown out or not competitve in 12 of them. we have 1 ok win (lakers without Bynum- and 2 good wins Indy and spurs. Other than that we beat shit teams. If we had rondo over Tyreke we would be a better team I can guarantee that.
Well, agree that we would be better with a player with 4 more years experience who played with 3 HOFers
But I would not trade Evans for Rondo. That would look like a sucker deal in another 1-3 years.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 24, 2012 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Voted leave him at PG, but not 100% the answer I would have liked
I think he is our primary ball handler in the back court. It’s more about pairing him with the right player. Ideally someone who can do some ball handing, can shoot and play D. Same types of players that teams have tried to pair with players like Westbrook, Wade, Bryant, Rose and Roy. Evans isn’t at their level yet, but he could be, and if he makes the leap that is the type of player we need next to him.
The biggest key for Evans is to develop that midrange jump shot. Westbrook, Rose and Wade have never been great three point shooter, but they became deadly with the 15-18 foot jumper. It kept Ds honest, opened up the key and allowed them to use their driving and passing skills even more. Evans has taken longer to develop that jumper than I would have liked, but he’s only 22. So there’s plenty of time for it to come.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 24, 2012 7:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Can we please stop all the "trade Tyreke" talk?
This team has 2 future stars. Trading one of them would set this franchise back another 5+ years.
What this team needs is some owners that will break the bank & a GM that has a damn clue on how to build a team in 2012. Until that happens you can blame Tyreke all you want but he is not the problem with this team. It’s an organizational problem.
by Allbenji on Jan 24, 2012 8:36 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
+1
And has the guy even seen Granger last couple of years? Terrible…I don’t know where his game went.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 24, 2012 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
I think if the trade was proposed the other way on the Pacers site
Their fans might be saying the same thing.
by elSAVinator on Jan 24, 2012 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Tyreke is the problem, or the solution for the Kings woes
I know I’m not the only one here that thinks he shouldn’t be the guy running the team. Like I said above, he would be the perfect SF. A future star though, the jury is still out on that one. While DMC has made significant leaps in his second season, Tyreke has not. Can’t just blame PW for his shooting woes, under Smart he is right at his career FG% of 40%.
The whole point of my article was that we should try to build a team using the assets we have. Our biggest asset would be Tyreke. I’m not trying to give him away, but if the right trade came through I wouldn’t hesitate. I’m no expert on guys becoming stars in the league, but I was under the impression that they were suppose to get better every year. The thing is, if we can get some other significant talent in here, while moving Tyreke to the SF and keeping him, I’m all for it. Tyreke is a scorer though, why are we trying to make him something he is not?
by elSAVinator on Jan 24, 2012 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
If you put Tyreke on the trade block I bet every team in the league would call
To me trading away Tyreke Evans would make the John Salmons trade look like a stroke of genius.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here! People want Tyreke to look for his teammates but when he does he’s not scoring enough. When he’s scoring too much then he’s selfish.
Let’s see how good/bad Tyreke can be with an actual team built around him(Not this merry band of scrubs) before we talk trade.
by Allbenji on Jan 25, 2012 7:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
With the roster as it is?
Tyreke is your point guard, because there is no better point guard on the roster.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I agree with this 100%
Which is why I think our blueprint is off. Instead of GP going against the grain all the time when he is building teams, why can’t we just have a PG that is a PG, a SG that is a SG, ect… I am just really frustrated with this organization from top to bottom. I feel that with the assets we have this year, that this might be our best chance we have had in a long time to make some moves and get something that resembles a cohesive basketball team.
by elSAVinator on Jan 24, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
You win with stars, not trying to force a blueprint
Will Evans and Cousins be stars? Jury is still out. But they have the potential. And if they are, they will be quarterbacking possessions. Not playing off ball while a Jose Calderon or Raymond Felton dominates possessions.
You build around those two for now. We’re not signings superstar in this market, so our fate is tied to their development.
Couldn't you say the same thing about small forward?
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Yes,
but Evans is more important to the team as a lead guard than as a small forward, and also has the potential to cause more mismatches from the lead guard position.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Did you just use the words Point Guard?
Based on skill sets, he not a good enough ball handler to be a point ( watch how Felton shut him down in the Portland game). As a shooter he’s not a Shooting Guard either base on shooting <30% on his jumpers. He is a Scoring Guard which is why I’ve always believed he needed to play the 2. He’s still going to get the ball enough to create, and he’ll get some good looks going to the rim with the right PG.
Could he play the 3 and eventually get as good as Ziggy? Maybe, but for right now, I don’t see him as being any better defensively. And, we would still have to rotate him out and the 2 into the corner so that he has more room to get to the rim and we have someone in the corner to hit the 3. Playing from one side of the court, you take away one side of the basket for him to score at. So, if he’s going to be driving from the top anyways why confuse everything. Plus he’ll to a better job defending 2’s than 3’s.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Without disagreeing with a word that you said,
Evans is the best point guard on the roster today.
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I think 'Reke would lose a lot of his advantage if moved to the SF.
Yes his decision making is questionable a times (frequently on some nights), but I feel it has improved, albeit, slower than I anticipated. To me, Tyreke needs to work on his off-ball movement, not his passing (at the moment, anyway), while trying to develop a consistent jumper. Of course, I’m not of the mindset that this team needs a “true” point guard.
We’ll see how well Tyreke performs once some semblance of an offensive system is learned—and I think we’ll be pleased.
A side note: If Tyreke is considered a cornerstone of this franchise, then why not surround him with players that fit his strengths and weaknesses? Instead of being asked to expand his game, it appeared he was asked to change it. Luckily, Coach Smart is having Tyreke play to his strengths more, rather than having him be somebody he isn’t.
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by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 24, 2012 11:07 PM PST reply actions
For the future,
have Reke as the starting SG & DMC as a starting big man. Hayes could be the other starting big man, or he could be a useful bench player. JT would be a useful bench player. The Kings could get another big man or keep what they have, I don’t have strong feelings either way. See how Jimmer & IT develop. Amnesty Salmons. I don’t know what to do (& don’t really care about what to do) w/Cisco & JJ. Fill the hole at SF thru the draft. Letting Jimmer or IT try to develop into a starting PG is fine by me. So is getting someone else & letting Jimmer become a backup PG (IT would probably be gone in this scenario, which is its drawback imo).
I don’t really think many changes can be made now (except seeing if a combo of Greene, Cisco & possibly Honeycutt would be a better use of Salmons’ minutes than Salmons) or even if they should be made.
I would love to see Reke develop into the guy we want him to be.
but realistically, to improve the team via trade we have to give up talent to get talent. Outside of Cuz and Reke, who has real trade value on the team that could net us a good player?
So, if we can trade Reke for a good player now to pair with DMC, i’d be very tempted to do it. For example, if Boston blows it up and we can net Rondo and Allen for some combo involving Tyreke, id be tempted to it. Rondo could be great next to Cousins, and if we get a good SF in the draft next year and another complimentary piece via FA we could be on our way. Just a thought lol.
Sometimes you just have to look yourself in the mirror and say....Tyreke Evans.
That just happened.
Know who would be better next to Cousins than Rondo?
90% of the starter PGs who can make simple plays for the C AND shoot the basketball.
I don’t know why Rondo is so overrated here.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 25, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
I think Rondo's actually a bit underrated around here
There’s a few folks who seem to like them, but they generally get bombarded by the “he’s surrounded by amazing players” brigade.
His on-court/off-court stats, plus his defensive prowess indicate that his teammates probably benefit as much from him as he does from them. Dude’s a very good NBA player, period.
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by otis29 on Jan 25, 2012 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I don’t think that he would have become as successful had he started here instead of in Boston, but he has made the most of his opportunities and has made himself into an elite NBA point guard. Great assist man, lock down defender, and knows his limitations as a perimeter shooter. I don’t know what Evans might still become, but today Rajon Rondo is light years better at the lead guard than anyone on our current or recent rosters.
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PG's that I'd rather have than Rondo, taking injury history into consideration (sorry, CP3):
Rose, Westbrook, Lowry, Irving, D.Williams.
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If we are just talking for today, why would you have Irving on the list?
If for the future, I would add Evans, but that’s just my opinion.
I've been watching him play
The kid is the goods, right now. One could effectively argue that he has been as good as or better than Rondo this year.
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True enough
And a bit of a small sample size. But here are some fun Ziller facts that I found in this SBN post:
The last rookie to score at least 17 points with a True Shooting percentage of .575 or better was Tim Duncan. The last rookie guard to do it? Michael Jordan.Irving is currently at .589 TS%.
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It just goes to show how much veteran players can help a young players growth
Not just any veteran players (salmons), but veteran players that demand the respect of the younger guys for what they have accomplished in the league and how hard they work away from the game to be the best they can be.
by elSAVinator on Jan 25, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
He's actually shooting 51% from the field this year
He’s also averaging nine assists per game and a PER of over 20 this season. I do get that he is playing with three all stars. And I’m sure that inflates his numbers. I’m also sure we couldn’t get him. But it’s pretty tough to argue that he is not a great player.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jan 25, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
He's one of those guys who makes everyone better
Sometimes thier own stats don’t completely reflect it.
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by lietothegirls on Jan 25, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Not looking to troll here [famous last words]
but I’m stunned that only 14% (as of this writing) think that trying to move Tyreke for a more compatible piece is a good idea. I like Tyreke, and think that he can be a starter in the NBA, but he just doesn’t seem to be what we need right now.
If he were a more consistent shooter or floor general I might feel differently. Above all, the organization certainly shouldn’t let the “sunk cost” of player marketing (tangible and intangible) cloud any future decision-making. Sometimes I feel like part of the reaction towards dealing Tyreke has more to do with an emotional commitment than an objective look at his current career trajectory.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
Problem for me is this
Evans is a potential superstar. He may not reach his potential, but it is there and it is hard to come by. He is also only 22, so there’s plenty of time for him to develop.
In Sacramento we aren’t signing a superstar, so we either need to draft or trade for one.
So moving Evans is great if it brings a superstar to town. However, moving him for a solid PG who is more compatible today, but with a much lower ceiling doesn’t really move this franchise forward.
I personally don’t want to sacrifice the potential of a championship core for an extra 6 wins this year. I would rather watch Evans take his lumps and get a better draft pick. It may not work out, but in Sacramento you have to take calculated risks to win big. You can’t just build a “solid” team.
If there is one thing that I can't stand more than the emotional attachment factor,
it is the “blow it up” mentality…we’ve had to deal with it far too frequently since 2005. I totally agree that one of the organization’s issues is that they haven’t given a single core roster any time to gel during that time frame. So, I would not support trading Tyreke to wipe the slate clean.
I also agree that we will not have a “superstar” coming here anytime soon. But, if I look at Tyreke’s position in the NBA pecking order right now, I’m not convinced that we couldn’t grab someone from his level or even slightly above his level within the league (if we were using grades, perhaps we are talking about a B+ to A- player…and Tyreke is floating at a B+ right now in my opinion).
Just because we aren’t going to be offered Chris Paul for Tyreke doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look around and see what offer sheets might exist out there, that’s all.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Jan 25, 2012 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Well who did you have in mind
Evans is floating at B1, with the potential for A/A+. Again, no guarantee he reaches that, but it’s there.
Who can we realistically get that is in the B+/A- range with similar potential?
This is just a single name, and he is on the downward slope of his career,
but Andre Miller is one name that comes to mind (perhaps as part of a packaged deal). Granted this would only buy us perhaps 3-4 years of solid productivity.
If acquiring young(er) talent was a priority, what about a guy like Jose Calderon? Would Calderon for Reke straight-up be a fair trade in your collective opinion?
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Jan 25, 2012 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
I respect what you are trying to do
But there’s no way I would trade Evans for a role player over 30.
Andre Miller is 35. He has declining stats and may have 1 more year left in him. He might be a nice backup to Evans to mentor him, but don’t see how is a solution for us.
Calderon is 30/31, plays no defense and has 1 playoff appearance (I believe) in his seven year career – where he wasn’t even the team’s best player.
We would be getting majorly ripped off in these deals and would look very, very foolish in 2-3 years.
fair enough
To be honest I haven’t done nearly the amount of necessary research to give an articulate answer to your original question. I do question whether Calderon’s lack of playoff appearances is a fair estimation of his skill (in fact, the same label could be placed on a guy like Tyreke in a year or two). But it probably isn’t a square deal, I’ll give you that.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Jan 25, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I do question whether Calderon’s lack of playoff appearances is a fair estimation of his skill (in fact, the same label could be placed on a guy like Tyreke in a year or two). But it probably isn’t a square deal, I’ll give you that.
If Evans is in the league another 4 seasons and hasn’t matched Calderon I will be very concerned. And you are correct that it’s not a direct estimation of skill. But my greater point is that he wasn’t a player who really carries his teams very far. Adding him to our team in place of Evans wouldn’t do a lot of good.
Wow
I was following along until I saw “trade Tyreke for Andre Miller or Jose Calderon” un-freaking-believable.
You completely lost me. Moving on now.
by Allbenji on Jan 25, 2012 3:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I understand your reaction
especially to Miller…it would have to be a dollars thing as much as a basketball move in that case, because the two guys don’t belong in the same sentence if you are talking about 3-5 year potential.
I do think Calderon is worth a closer look though…remember, Toronto to Sacramento is a bit like Sacramento to the East Coasters. We don’t see the Raptors much, and when we do, they are collectively terrible. It’s easy to lump one guy’s performance in with the bathwater.
In a vacuum, Reke may have more upside than Calderon. But for this particular Kings team, I’m not sure that the scales are quite so lopsided.
Also, if I lost you with Miller and Calderon, but you were with me to that point…could you offer up some alternative names? Thanks.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Jan 25, 2012 3:29 PM PST up reply actions

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