The Curious Case of Geoff Petrie
It's time to have a discussion about Geoff Petrie. It's very hard to get a clear picture of his performance to certain degree. For some reason he has a ton of built in excuses. Painting in broad strokes though, I feel very secure to say that Petire is one of the best at the draft, one of the worst at signing free agents, and in the bottom half at trades,
Very few have the ability to draft talent like Petrie. Year after year he makes the most of the picks he has, especially in consideration of where he's drafting. The bad news, there are only 1-2 game changing players that come out each year and the Kings are never quite high enough for Petrie to nab those players. That's not his fault. I mean if we had the number 1 or 2 pick and could draft a Durant I'm pretty sure the team would be better than it is now. Oh well.
Trades are a lot more sketchy. A lot of people will say that he made the trades to get rid of contracts and at the request of the owners. However a lot of those contracts are ones he offered players. A lot of the trades he did make it's very hard to say we got equal value for. And to those that were excited to get the cap room to sign free agents I again point to the fact Petrie has a terrible track record at signing players and this year has been no exception. We either dratically over pay players, sign players with health risks that blow up on us, or sign bad players to contracts. I can point to several bad signings for every good signing he's had (Beno being the last decent FA signing, the first contract, not the second resigning contract). As far as trades I do give him credit for aquiring Thorton, who turned out to be a decent player, but I can't help to think they kind of lucked out in that deal. Landry was suposed to be the great front court player the franchise was hoping for when we aquired him, right. That didn't work out. But we can go back through the last several trades and see we got the short end of the deal on most of them. This includes the big trade for Webber (Philly got out from that deal a good two to three years earlier than we did from all the bad contracts we took on) and the more recent disaster that resulted Salmons being on our team (bar none the worst starting player in the NBA this season. How is this guy starting?!!!)
Free Agent signings have been even worse for Petrie as he consistently overpays our own free agents as well as other teams free agents. It's very hard to point to a great signing unless you go all the way back to Divacs. You could say that Brad Miller worked out short term, but it did not end well. There were a few bench player signing in the first part of last decade that were semi-hits. Players like Bonzi Wells and Jim jackson were basically 1-2 year band-aids but played well for the team. One could argue that Sacramento has to overpay to get players (and they could point to Crawford and Kirlenko this off-season as examples) but the truth is we are so lucky that neither player signed the big contracts we offered. They would not be the answer to this team being dramatically better and we would be saddled with another huge contract for a mid-level type player.
Short of getting a number one pick for a bona-fide game changing player the only way for this team to get better is through trades. I don't know if evidense supports Petrie being able to pull of that type of trade anymore. He got his jackpot in the 90's we he scored Webber for Richmond, which was an absolute steal. Maybe a GM only gets one of those types of deals in a career. I am not confident that Petrie is our man anymore. I can't offer up anyone that would be better though. I just don't have a knowledge of who is the best scout/GM types there are in the league. I can come up with my own trade scenarios I'd pull the trigger on and shake things up. But a team can't loose the way this team is and go onto to good things. Just for fun, if I were GM here's what I'd do.......
Trade Hickson and pick for absorbing Pierce's contract
Trade Jimmer, Greene, and pick to Suns for Nash
Amenesty Salmons (he should not be on this roster and is terrible off the bench).
Release Outlaw (I'd rather see Honeycutt, can he be worse than Salmons and Outlaw? perhaps but at least he's young and you can say you are developing potential)
Starting Line up
Nash, Tyreke, Pierce, JT, Cousins
Bench
Thorton, Hayes, and Thomas as main rotation guys off the bench. That would give us a vetern presense in the front and back court. Nash as a floor leader with Cousins in the post would be AWESOME!!!! Tyreke could concentrate on being aggressive again and have some of the pressure lifted. I think this line up over two to three years could become hugely successful and depending on the development of Cousins and Tyreke could even challenge for a championship depending on the health and decline of Nash and Pierce.
Anyway, that will never happen, but for what it's worth.
In closing I don't think Petrie has the magic anymore, in at least trade and signing ability. I would forever trust his drafting ability but I believe this team needs a GM that can be creative and aggressive in the areas Petrie has proven himself weak. What are your thoughts?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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I agree with much of what you say about Petrie.
And I like the idea of trading fro Pierce. But, I would never trade Jimmer and a pick for Nash. He is going to retire in 2 years, and that pick could be pretty good, and I personally think Jimmer is going to be a starter and maybe better in this league.
Also, Pierce for JJ and a pick will never happen.
I think Boston would rather let the legend retire as a Celtic than trade for Tyrus Thomas 2.0. Plus, Pierces game should still be valuable to the Celtics as he ages.
by SharkKings49 on Jan 26, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
I personally think Jimmer is going to be a starter and maybe better in this league.
Than 2 time MVP Steave Nash? Lets get him in the Rookie/Sophomore game first.
I love the Kings, so for their sake I hope Jimmer and every one of our players would fulfill all our hopes and dreams. But I don’t see it. I would love, LOVE, for him to prove me wrong.
by sac_faithful on Jan 26, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But I wouldn't trade the pick for Nash either.
Too old to have a long term impact whereas the pick could potentially benefit the Kings for the next decade.
by sac_faithful on Jan 26, 2012 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe it's just me, but I'm up to my ass in waiting for potential to become factual.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
by andy sims on Jan 27, 2012 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I missed the part where acquiring Nash and Pierce fixes the problem of the Kings giving up too many points in the paint.
Your putting too much importance on scoring and not enough on defense.
The problem isn’t about veteran talent, it’s about complimentary talent. No one on the team is truly a 3 although you might make an arguement for Donte. But, to me, he is going to reach his ceiling at the 4. We have four 2’s in Tyreke, Thornton, Salmons and Garcia. And, we have no one who is a legit starting 4.
Thornton is Mini-Reke with a 3pt shot who doesn’t draw fouls. Jimmer is probably the best pairing with Evans but Jimmer needs a little more seasoning.
GP’s problem looks to be that he does recognize talent but doesn’t have a plan on how to blend it together. Maybe that’s why he let PW have so much say in personnel choices. And, we all know how well PW has been in developing rookies and building team defense.
I really don’t know how the conversations go when GP tries to get someone to play here, or how many times good players turn down good money. So, I won’t even guess if the money he gives to players is his fault. But, I do know that if I were a GM for another team, that there is no one other than Cuz that I would give up a Solid Starter for in a trade.
So, forget about trading right now. Your just not going to get great talent back in return unless it’s for a short term rental. And, we don’t have enough talent to trade that we can afford to spend it on rentals. And, we’re certainly not going to get 2 starters back in return for Tyreke and anyone else except Cuz.
If the team continues to play the way they have, attendence will drop and the Maloofs will put their money back in the vault. So, forget about any big moves before the deadline since cap space is our greatest asset. I’m pinning my hopes on Coach Smart.
If he’s as good as he looked in GS, he might just solve our back-court problem by the end of the season. And, that would be a good start. The last thing I want to see is GP trading away Thornton just to move a bad contract, the way he did with Salmons and Miller. That was almost as bad as trading Beno to get Salmons back.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Actually
One great way to prevent so many points in the paint is for you to make your own shots, which slows down the opponent’s fast break. Let’s be real here, we aren’t getting beat in the paint by Hakeem Olajuwan types, it has a lot to do with transition defense.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I don't see where he said they should trade for a Hakeem type
by wallywagon11 on Jan 27, 2012 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see where I said that either?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
by otis29 on Jan 28, 2012 4:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The main point of my post
is to debate whether Petrie is the main to make the moves to get us back over the hump. After watching this team play I am not sold that more youth on the youngest team in the NBA is going to get the job done. I think trades could put this team on the right track.
I disagree with the you about the ability to get high end players. We would have to absorb contracts, but I would argue that a Pierce or a Nash would serve a better purpose on our team then the declining teams they are on. Ainge would definately move Pierce if it ment increasing the rate at which he could rebuild.
As far as importance on offence to defense, all I can say is I am just looking for good players at the moment. For all intensive purposes this team does not have a SF. Salmons is a negative in almost every category. I still can’t believe he starts. I do think JT and Hickson have value in this league and a Sacramento draft pick certainly has value considering how bad we are. We need to concentate on developing 1-2 players with solid veterns around them, not developing 12 players and hoping they all come along (especially in this messed up lock-out season!).
If we really want to get good quick and develop a couple of our young players, get a GM who’s fortay is making trades and signing players and set him loose. I just don’t think Petrie is that guy anymore. He has an excellent eye for the draft, but we no longer need 18 year old kids if we want to start winning sometime soon!
We probably do need 18 year old kids, but only if we are going to develop them
Develop them into all around team players that would have value in a trade.
I’m not against replacing Petrie because I’ve haven’t liked most of his trades and FA signings. I just don’t think any player would have willingly signed to join this team unless we overpaid or they had no other offers. Blame the owners, FO or Westphal all you want, the stigma of losing has been all over this team for a long long time.
I just can’t see many Agents answer their phone if they saw the call was from the Kings. I don’t see starter talent on this team, but I do see a few players who haven’t reached their ceiling Yet. We don’t have a lot of choice, we need to develop their talent so that we have talent to trade. Otherwise we’ll just continue to sell low and buy high. Not a sound business strategy.
People can post all their trade fantasies all they want, no other GM is looking at the Kings and saying that’s a guy we really need other than Cuz.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 27, 2012 1:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
People can post all their trade fantasies all they want, no other GM is looking at the Kings and saying that’s a guy we really need other than Cuz.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
I imagine it's the same with Cousins, to be honest
At least, if you’re hoping to pull any high level talent in a trade.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
players that can help that arent top tier
Corey Brewer, Nic Batum/Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion, Jared Dudley, Ronnie Brewer, Patrick Willis etc. We need some one willing to defend their man, get back on defense, show competetive nature and want to do the dirty work. We have capable passers but if everyones standing around waiting to go 1 on 1 who can you pass to? This team needs more than that but those guys will definately help
by Chent on Jan 26, 2012 2:20 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Oh man I would loooove Batum
I see a lot of him play a lot here and man he is perfect for us. Defends real well, puts in a lot of effort, is great at the chasedown block and he can hit the jumper. Perfect for us.
by Portland's Cowboy fan on Jan 27, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Question
Is part of this in part due to the lack of progression of Tyrekes game?
I think part of it is
But I look at the front office and think to myself, why haven’t they surrounded him with players that can compliment him, Jimmer is the first player I think they acquired that really does compliment him. But with that, he is a weak defender and they need 1 more backcourt player who can get dirty on D, pass, and shoot like an Earl Watson, Hinrich for example. Then I think they need a wing who is a great athlete, plays defense, CUT to the hoop, shoot, not ball dominant Salmons. A big man who can Set Screens, move the ball, protect the rim if Cousins is his pairing. I like Thornton but he’s a bench scorer, and they fail to put him in that role. I really don’t understand what they are/were thinking.
by Chent on Jan 26, 2012 3:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I say we overpay for Nic Batum and DJ Augustin in free agency
Pray for a top two pick (Anthony Davis would be perfect next to DMC) in the lottery, and then let it simmer.
1-Augustine/Jimmer
2-Reke/Thorton
3-Batum/Reke
4-Anthony Davis/Chuckwagon
5-DMC/JT
Solid defensively and we have some outside shooting to balance the offense out. This group could do some damage.
You sir
Are are right on. This is a team that compliments each other. Even if we don’t get the #1 pick that type of player is the next step to making a cohesive unit
by Chent on Jan 26, 2012 3:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I like that roster
Still needs more depth but definitely a huge improvement from where we are now. DJ Augustine has been on my wish list since he was drafted
by rise_to_mediocrity on Jan 26, 2012 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
I'd even do a sign and trade to get Batum
I love his game.
Send JJ Hickson and Travis Outlaw to Portland (where Outlaw had his best years and he gives them a decent backup to Wallace). Then we pay Batum top dollar.
He’s not a star, but he great on defense, moves without the ball and consistently hits his outside shot. He is the antidote for everything that ails this current Kings squad.
Also, I would do a sign and trade for Augustine (Jimmer?) to control his rights and be able to match any offer. Both players would significantly raise our team basketball IQ and DJ would destroy teams running the pick and roll with DMC.
Definitely
but we dont have the pieces to give now for dj. Only MT n JJ. and i dont think it will fly…
by rise_to_mediocrity on Jan 26, 2012 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure it would take a lot to get DJ
He’s a restricted free agent that may get a big offer that Charlotte doesn’t want to match. If that happens, Charlotte is left with nothing, so it is a gamble if they don’t trade him.
Plus, Charlotte already drafted Kemba Walker as a replacement. If we gave them JJ Hickson, they might bite.
GP has many problems,
small city/market and one of, if not the worst stadium/facilities in the NBA. Combine these problems along with our depleted roster and how is he supposed to attract a big name star? The Kings have a few options, rebuilding through the draft, which takes a long time and is full of failures unless you land the 1 or 2 picks. Jump on a disgruntled star with more then one year left on his deal (wishing and dreaming) or build a Denver Nuggets type roster and win as a team!
Either way I don’t see GP as the guy who can save this franchise. We need some fresh blood at the helm of our franchise. GMs usually do not last as long as GP has. He and Popovich have been in tenure approx. same amount of time and GP is Greg Popovich! Even though they have the same initials!
by rise_to_mediocrity on Jan 26, 2012 4:10 PM PST reply actions
The problem simply is:
The Kings have bet the rebuild on Tyreke and now DMC becoming all stars. The NBA is a star-centric league, Sacramento can’t lure any stars in free agency, so the Kings need to home-grow theirs. Tyreke, in his 3rd year, hasn’t elevated his play to meet that expectation, though DMC seems to be more on track, neither are going to be all-stars this year, and it’s looking less likely that they will be allstars soon, which leaves the team in the throes of mediocrity.
"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."
I wouldn't rule-out Cousins as an all-star next year.
He has gotten a lot of publicity this year, which is not such a bad thing since everyone in the league knows who he is. He has also played with some consistency, getting his double-double stats, getting the respect of many players, media folk, and front office personnel throughout the league. He got a bad rap with the Westphal thing, but people know that Cousin’s remained while Westphal got the boot.
I agree with you, Kings have bet the rebuild on Tyreke and now Cousins. Kevin Martin was a victim of the Tyreke going to lead the team mentality fostered by Paul Westphal. Okay, so maybe Tyreke won’t be an all star. I think he is still a keeper. He was the ROY and he does have a unique skill set. Perhaps not the skill set to build an entire team around, but I still think deserves a starting position on the roster.
It is a little early to make a determination about Jimmer, so I think we should keep him around for at least another season after this, before anything is done about him.
The team is in the throes of mediocrity, which is nothing new in the past ten years. We don’t have much to entice someone in a trade, but coupled with some of the money the Maloofs promised to spend, we might be in a position to land one or two good pieces.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
I agree
if DMC keeps putting up 17 and 15 type nights, it’ll be hard to keep him out of the All Star game. Worked for Kevin Love after all.
I think it’s worth holding on to Tyreke and Jimmer for at least another full season after this one to see what we really have before even considering making any kind of trade with them. Outside of those three though, anyone’s fair game.
I know the prevailing thought around here is what the Kings need is wing shooters who defend – do those players even exist? if so, who are they?
"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."
by TheFifthMookie on Jan 27, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
The problem is the competition
Figure that 5 of the 12 all star spots go to bigs. Bynum, M.Gasol, Millsap, Love, Aldridge and Griffin probably all get the nod over DMC at this point, and that does not take Duncan, P. Gasol or Dirk into consideration. Gortat, Jefferson and Dalembert have also been playing well.
I think that the Kings are going to have to play a lot better or Cousins’ numbers are going have to be off the charts for him to get any all star love. He and Monroe will lead the sophomore team against the rookies, though.
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