Not Again! Again.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 28, 2012 12:27 PM PST
Email
Print
It’s 2012 and here we are again. You remember again don’t you? Again is the place where Sacramento Kings fans visit every January for the last six seasons. The playoffs are hopelessly out of sight and the fans start pinning their hopes on a brighter future by looking for a way out of the mess they are in. Some years it’s time to start looking for coaching replacements but mostly it’s about trading players and looking at the lottery. It is a bleak existence, so why am I bringing it up again? Why even go there?
I am here to advocate losing. To champion failure. To karaoke the fat lady singing on this 2012 season.
Let’s strategy ahead, and yes, that means if the Kings are going to lose, there is no goodness in losing halfway. That means if you can’t win enough to make the playoffs than lose and lose a lot. The best strategy is to have the team drown in ping pong balls come late May and the draft lottery. Painful as it is, it makes the most sense.
You have heard this before and you are sick of it. It is a tired refrain, but if you want this team to get better they have to do it through the draft. There is no other way.
The evidence:
Ownership: No money and it’s not a secret. The fans know it, the League knows it and you can darn well bet that the players and their agents know it.
GM: Geoff Petrie has pulled off some wonderful trades and some awful trades. Historically it’s a push and with the wallet constraints of today, the scales tip towards embarrassing. What’s his forte? The draft. Period. Evans and Cousins are big wins. Jimmer is an unknown.
Big name free agent signing. First – the Malindas will not bankroll the acquisition and second the Big Name FA will not allow himself to be here in SacTown.
Little or medium name free agents: The Kings had to spend $20M this year: Here is the depressing review: Marcus Thronton, Chuck Hayes, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw, No SammyD, no Jamal Crawford, no Andrei Kirilenko, no Nene, Chandler or Marc Gasol. $20M doesn’t buy you much these days it seems. With their history of losing and their uncertain future of location and finances, Sacramento is not a desired destination in the NBA right now.
So what does that leave you? It leaves you the draft. And for the first time in five years this draft is a honey. There are more than one or two high level prospects on the board. The past four lotteries were dependent on lucking into the first or second spot for projected high level talent. This year is different. There are five or six names at the least that are coming out this year. My point: The Kings have had terrible luck, but this year that luck isn’t as important as the quality and depth is extended. A high level prospect can be had up to the 5th or 6th pick. All you need is position and ping pong balls. If you are going to lose, lose with a purpose. The Kings have already built the tank, they might as well drive it.
It is not going to be easy. There is some major suckitude in the Association this year. There is stiff competition for the cellar bottom from the Wizards, Bobcats, Hornets, Raptors, Pistons and Nets in particular. The Suns, Warriors and Bucks as well. Expect the ugliness to get dirty as the end of the season approaches. I expect the Kings to get the 8th pick in a 7 player draft but I sure hope they continue to keep their head up their hineys find a way to roll the dice and lose enough to better their odds. And yes, losing 5 extra games is better than the 9th pick.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
56 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I can never root for the Kings to lose
The day I start rooting for the Kings to lose games is the day I stop watching Kings basketball. If we lose then I will take a good draft pick as solace. But I will never root for it. especially since I think we have two to four really solid pieces now and another bottom of the barrel season would make me have to question whether we really have anything at all.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
another bottom of the barrel season would make me have to question whether we really have anything at all.
a bottom of the barrel finish would mean one more good piece than whatever the team has now. The difference in cred between say 9 or 6 in the draft is not much but the difference in player obtained can be a lot.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Very sober post
Not sure if it will wake up the fans dreaming about trading John Salmons plus pocket lint for a star, but this gives the rest of us a silver lining as the losses pile up. Let’s hope Petrie and the Malindas are as sober as you. I’d hate to see some stopgap trade to pile up an extra 5 wins in season that’s almost already lost.
I don't think we need to root for the Kings to lose. They are doing a good job on their own.
Just kick back with friends,
and look for silver linings .
Watch it all unfold.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
What a fun outlook.
So we can watch our team try to lose, which sends entirely the wrong message to the young core that you’re trying to build around through the draft, then we get to watch three teams jump ahead of us in the lottery.
Where do I sign up?
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 28, 2012 1:40 PM PST reply actions
That is one way to look at it. How about acceptance (see Kubler-Ross)? Not to cheer but to see a positive
No one wants to lose. The players sure don’t want to lose and the coaches are paid to win.
But loses here this year can be divested from emotion* to some degree and a practical approach can be assumed.
*Sports fanaticism is an exercise in emotion. Without passion, why watch? why care? I get that. But let’s call ourselves “accountant fans” and invest those losses towards a more positive future.Getting a higher draft position is desirable and the best way to accomplish that is with losing games.
As far as a “culture of losing”, it is inbred. These Kings need talent and a #3 pick is a better outcome than a #9. If the Kings are 18- 48 or 23-43 they are losers. I am not expecting the Kings to play to lose, but I am promoting those losses as a benefit for the overall good. A fine line to walk but a logical one. Trading or FA acquisition is not working.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 28, 2012 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There would be a massive explosion near Cuz's locker if they were to do what you suggest
Plus not breaking the streak of consecutive losing seasons isn’t going to help get FA’s to come here. Winning down the stretch might.
Plus+, the failure to train our young talent to win and play like a team is how we got back to this place again. Getting Jimmer, Tyreke, Thornton and Cuz to learn how to play offense and defense within an organized scheme is more valuable than adding another young talent who can’t play team ball either.
Since last season, we’ve seen fewer fouls and turnovers. We finished last season with a winning percentage at home of 26.8% and we’re currently 50%. Since Coach Smart took over we’re better at getting out on fast breaks and defending them.
I think I’ll take continued growth by our guys, and let GP pick up a solid play that can contribute no matter where we draft. We know we’re going to be shafted in the draft anyways, so let get a positive feeling about the team, by finish strong like last season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 28, 2012 2:04 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
the streak of consecutive losing seasons isn’t going to help get FA’s to come here
but if they are bad enough they will create an OKla thunder where they got 3 years of top 4 or better players.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We've had 3 yrs of bad ball, 3 more doesn't guarantee you a KD or BG or Wall or Irving.
Dream about having the next messiah drop in your lap all you want. I’d rather work for it.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 29, 2012 1:15 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Platitudes won't improve the team any more than dreams
A major talent upgrade, however, will improve the team greatly. For now, the draft is the only way that is happening.
I believe Cuz and Tyreke are major talents, how many more games are we going to win then we did before they arrived?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I’d rather work for it.
you work for it by understanding the mechanics of the system then going all out to exploit them.If the system says lose you ask “how many sir”?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 29, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
That's the problem with this Country now days
too many people sitting around waiting for a hand out instead of working, and blaming their plight on the system.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Please tell me that's sarcasm
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Please tell me that's sarcasm
haha, the work involved in good tanking is not “work” because it falls within the system?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 30, 2012 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
plus
heck even if you work your ass off you can get the Messiah anyway with a draft lottery
by wallywagon11 on Jan 29, 2012 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, we will get the shaft anyway.
Even if we do get a high pick, our trusted GM will probably trade down while “upgrading” the roster with a veteran.
I disagree
I will not champion the cause of losing, because there is no guarantee that this will improve us. Losing is a stink that does not wash off easily, and to permeate that culture purposely makes no sense. This team, these players, need to learn how to win.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
This is something that is repeated frequently, and I don't think I'll ever understand this.
there is no guarantee that this will improve us
So we need a guarantee that it will improve the team for it to make sense? There is no guarantee that a player will make a layup, so does that make a layup not a better shot than a 20-foot jumper? And why bother even dribbling the ball up the court. They could just jack up half-court shots. You never know, they could go in. This is the same logic that makes people say the draft lottery doesn’t matter – you know, cause there’s no guarantee that it will improve you. I mean, we could land a star with the 60th pick in the draft, so why not donate our 1st round pick?
If you’re trying to win a basketball game, you want your players taking the shots that have the best chance of going in. If you’re trying to build a winning basketball team, you want the best possible chance to get a better player. As unpleasant as we may find the idea, the fact is that losing basketball games greatly increases the chance that we improve the team through the draft.
by Charlieb on Jan 28, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think its Pathetic to Advocate Losing Under Any Scenario
Just sorry and weak and frankly gross. I have been a winner in a lot of areas in my life except lately (5 years and ongoing) as a fan of my one and only favorite pro sports team, and have never conceded to defeat, or to accept or welcome failure as the preferred option.
Marcus has been hurt. Chuck Hayes, the “glue” player of the team, has missed a lot games. We just got rid of an incompetent, aging egomaniacal coach and replaced him with an eager, optimistic, energetic coach with an actual philosophy based on the talent available to him (rebound and run), which he has yet to fully institute, and you are ready to quit on a season not 20 games old? This season is not lost yet, we have a lot of games to be played, at home, with a mostly young and capable core, and yet you are ready to embrace the failures of the past with vigor?
Why bother, then, to even watch the games and root for the team, unless you are a masochist, or worse, a Laker fan?
I am not ready to concede s*ht, including a playoff run. If your opinion were a layup attempt, Mr. Between The Eyes, Hasaan Whiteside would that swat weak s*ht into the upper deck.
Smart Era, y'all.
by bench_blob on Jan 28, 2012 3:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I expect no less than a personal attack blob. You do not disappoint.
Your opinion as to direction is appreciated however and you are welcome to it.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 28, 2012 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's pathetic (and weak, and gross) to advocate mediocrity
Without a serious talent upgrade, mediocrity is the best this team can hope for. The draft is the only place that we can realistically expect enough of a talent upgrade to compete, and the talent acquired will be greater if the team loses more games. This is not a radical idea. Fans aren’t required to be realistic, but if you are going to attack a guy for pragmatism, then you should at least be honest enough with yourself to admit that you’re being irrational.
by Charlieb on Jan 28, 2012 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The Kings have the youngest team in the league, with 4 top 12 draft picks
and 5 other mid to late first rounders. The problem isn’t that we don’t have talent, it’s that we don’t have developed talent. It took Hawes 4 years and getting away from our coaching staff before he reached the level of a solid starter. It’s probably too early to talk about Casspi, but he’s turning his season around over the last 10 games.
We need a team from which our draft choices can fit into so they can make the team better. We don’t have that team yet. We have been rebuilding the player base but not the team. Until the players we already have can run a half court set successfully or defend the paint, even a Blake Griffin or Kevin Durant aren’t going to make this a playoff team.
Build the TEAM, and They will come.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Disagree with this point
The problem isn’t that we don’t have talent
Developing the talent already on the team would certainly help, but there is just not enough talent on the team for a deep playoff run.
Besides, the ideas of adding talent and developing talent aren’t mutually exclusive. For instance, I don’t want the team to pickup a stopgap veteran before the trade deadline to take playing time away from our young players for the sake of winning a couple extra games. Also, I would absolutely encourage focusing on long-term development of the players this season (during what limited practice time they have) instead of focusing on game-to-game matchups to try to eek out a few more games. This would get us a better draft pick and help with long-term player development. Lose Win Win, right?
Agree with most of what you said
However, I think this is a year where there are a lot more potential trade opportunities than usual and the Kings have valuable trade pieces in Tyreke, Thornton and Cousins. The only one I’d say is “off limits” is Cousins and I’d even consider trading him for the right price.
You’ve got the Knicks ready to implode, the Celtics considering blowing it up, Howard and Williams up in the air, Calderon and Kaman on the trade block, etc.
Opportunity knocks but are the Kings home to answer?
If you expect the Kings to trade for more significant talent your hopes are above mine.
Experience over these last few seasons has soured my expectations. You have disinterested owners with limit wallet space. The Kings have spent more on payroll this season only because they had to. When you add it up, the Sacramento Kings still have the lowest payroll in the League.
To get better the Kings need to draft talent. That talent is available in the draft. Why not do your best to get the best selection possible?
The remedy is a bitter pill. A pungent odor no doubt – it won’t kill you but it will make you stronger.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 28, 2012 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So if we got happy when they lost and mad when they won...
We’d have the same number of ups or more than other teams in the NBA?
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
Throw it around the back so it look fly when I pass//
Just to avoid the block go high off the glass//
I'm killing them out there they gon' have to bring caskets//
This all I hear after the baskets *swoosh*//
Bleh
When will you schlubs who root for your team to lose finally realize that you have ZERO control over wins and losses? And zero control over how the lottery goes?
Why not always root for the team to win, and if they lose and we get more ping pong balls – well, you just found your silver lining?
So tell me this. Under this philosophy, while you’re watching the games – will you root for DeMarcus to blow his top and get ejected, or for Tyreke to shoot under 40% and have more assists than turnovers, or for Salmons to play 40+ minutes each game?
How is this fandom?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Who here said they thought they had control over wins and losses?
No idea where you are getting that from. As for this…
Why not always root for the team to win, and if they lose and we get more ping pong balls – well, you just found your silver lining?
I won’t speak for BTE, but that’s basically what I’m doing. I try not to think of it during games, but at the end of the day I know that it’s more beneficial to the team in the long-run to lose a game than to win. It does take some of the fun out of watching, but that’s one of the many reasons rooting for a non-playoff team sucks. And this right here…
will you root for DeMarcus to blow his top and get ejected, or for Tyreke to shoot under 40% and have more assists than turnovers, or for Salmons to play 40+ minutes each game?
Come on. You have to admit you went a little off the rails setting up this strawman. Nobody wants to watch Salmons.
So in essence
This fanpost is little more than saying “if we lose games, we’ll have a better chance at a higher draft position”? That’s not exactly breaking news.
I read it as advocating actively rooting for the team to lose. If we’re going to lose, we probably want our existing players to perform as poorly as possible…no?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I can certainly see your take. Brand me a heretic, but hear me out:
My words are not a call to cheer poor play but yes, to admit that losing is a purposeful strategy. In that regard, and given the awful display of gamesmanship on most nights, having the losses pile up is an advantage.
What does this mean going forward in the immediate future? To me, that means not making the tinkering trades suggested and hoped for. Low level upgrades or talent neutral trades for a chemistry shuffle seem dead ended in my eyes. Mortgaging a piece of the future (hello JJ HIckson and the lottery protected 1st rounder!) for an additional scant few additions in the win column seem myopic. Why concentrate on a small hope for present success when a high draft pick will be the more likely road to a more desirable future?
My highly compensated advice: Give the young’uns all the minutes sensibly possible, teach them team basketball, mold the offense to take advantage of the skills of Evans and Cousins (e.g. does anyone else think the Triangle would fit these guys?). Trade away the pieces you don’t want (Salmons, Hickson, Outlaw, Garcia, Whiteside) or let them whither on the vine in favor of the Honeycutts, Fredettes. Heighten your draft chances, maybe get another 1st round pick or trade the garbage for a future need (Wilson Chandler for Salmons or Hickson or something). Realize that if you lose, you lose. Don’t incentivize losing but also don’t de-incentivize not winning for Coach Smart (i.e. remove the game win total salary bonus as used for Coach Westphal).
Look, Ownership and by inclusion the front office are Major League-ing this team and this city. Flip it around and find any advantages you can. Given that the biggest need is an overall talent upgrade, the draft is your best and fastest chance to accomplish that. If you have a better way to get to the same place we both want the Sacramento Kings to attain – a playoff contending young team – please share your plan.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 29, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
It's kind of funny that most fans would support a lot of those ideas even with the knowledge that they might cost a few wins
….as long as you don’t admit that the losses might be a good thing. I mean, getting some extra minutes for Hassan Whiteside might be worth a few losses – he could be a star! But don’t say you want more ping pong balls. That won’t make the team better. We’ll just get screwed in the lottery anyway. Cognitive dissonance at its best.
Weren't you just complaining of strawmen?
I don’t see any scenario where Hassan Whiteside getting minutes is a good thing and haven’t stated such. I also haven’t said we’ll get screwed in the lottery. Actually, I think the opposite – we’ve got as good a chance to get a high draft slot even if we win some extra games down the stretch.
And I don’t mind young guys getting some minutes, but not the kind of empty minutes they get without having some on-court support from a talented veteran or two. The league is too damn good to just expect young players to figure it out themselves.
In short, their improvement rate will be much slower if you don’t get them some veteran support – then we’re back here next year at this time talking about the same damn thing.
Isn’t hoping for more ping pong balls what we’ve done year after year? How’s that working out for us? Should the youngest team, a team currently holding the worst point differential in the league, get even younger?
I really don’t understand the people who say the team is trying to “major league” its way out of town yet offer advice for said franchise to improve. Wouldn’t that be a better example of cognitive dissonance?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I don't have a problem at all giving Whiteside minutes
Why not? For starters, he could be 40 if we wait around for the team to acquire some talented veteran(s) to provide him on court support. With the exception of JT and DMC our other front court guys haven’t done much of anything (or anything at all if we’re talking 3s), so it’s not like he’d be taking minutes away from some other world beater. At some point in time, he’s going to need legit minutes. Why not now? And I’m only talking 8-10 minutes to begin with to get his feet wet and see what he can do. And I don’t mean just throwing him to the wolves either- this is where a coaching staff comes in to play. Same thing with Honeycutt. Our other 3s have been awful, so I’d just assume give the kid some minutes to see what he can do.
Bottom line, it’s not like they can do any worse than some of the guys ahead of them in the rotation. I think coach Smart could easily find minutes for these guys without having to potentially lose games to do so.
At some point in time we’re going to need to see who can be part of the future and garbage minutes, whether here or in Reno (especially) help determine that.
Maybe the coaching staff thinks he'll get killed out there
And they don’t think he’s got the mental makeup to handle it? Maybe they realize that he won’t understand team defense and will kill any offensive fluidity they are starting to develop, even in limited minutes.
Whiteside was a second round pick. There are probably plenty of D-League guys who would be worth taking a flyer on to fill minutes before him.
In short, he hasn’t been good enough to get on the floor for a crappy team – and it might be because he hasn’t earned the chance to play.
I wouldn’t assume that things couldn’t get worse with him out there, either.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Well...
If he can’t mentally handle 8-10 minutes of game time, then perhaps his time would be better spent parking cars or something. This is where the coaching staff comes in to play by making it crystal clear what is expected of him on offense and defense and using his mistakes as teaching moments. And if the dude just can’t cut it, fine- at least we’d know that and can move on.
I wouldn’t assume that things couldn’t get worse with him out there, either.
You saw the layup line game (i.e., Denver ) right? That’s as miserable of defense imaginable, and whiteside was nowhere near that. Nor has he been part of any of our awful offensive stretches either, so I just don’t believe that having him on the court could induce something worse than what we’ve already seen. And even if he does, at least you now know that and can get rid of him.
As far as earning minutes goes, how do you do that in his position? General work ethic? Killing it in practice? Killing it in the 10 minutes a game you’re getting in Reno? What has Salmons or Outlaw done to “earn” any minutes this season that’s based on anything they’ve actually done this season? If whiteside is lazy and/or unmotivated, fine and we get rid of him as soon as possible. If the team has any thoughts that he may become something, then he’s going to need some minutes and given how weak our front court is outside of DMC and JT, I just don’t see how it can hurt anything by giving him minutes now.
I would think that earning minutes is two-fold
First, a combination of work ethic and practice efforts / results. Next, translating that onto the floor when you get your chance. I can’t see a guy like Whiteside getting a chance if he is getting owned in practice or is not putting forth the effort. I also can’t see the Kings coaching staff not using him if he were anywhere near ready – I mean, if has shown that he can help, why wouldn’t they play him?
As it pertains to Salmons and Outlaw, some pile of suck has to play at the 3 – the bar is set considerably lower at SF than it is up front, where you have to take minutes from Cousins, Hayes, Thompson and even Hickson.
Unfortunately, wishing just doesn’t make it so. My guess is that if Whiteside had/has shown any grasp of the defensive end, he would be getting some burn. It reminds me of Justin Williams – great athletic talent, but could never wrap his head around the team’s defensive schemes. My Spidey sense tells me that Whiteside has been suffering from the same disease.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
We have defensive schemes?!
Joking aside, if the team has decided he has no value because of his work ethic and/or inability to grasp the schemes, i’m fine with him not playing because of that. If they think he does have some value/potential going forward then he’s going to need actual minutes at some point in time. Given our current dearth of talent in the front court, now is as good a time as any to get him some minutes, imo. I’m not advocating for starting him for even giving him 15-20 minutes a night. In the grand scheme of things, would it really matter that much if Hayes/Hickson lost a couple of minutes each?
As for why they don’t play him if they think he can help, why did they move down in the draft to get Jimmer and reacquire Salmons? Why did they give up Omri AND a 1st rounder for Hickson? My point being that the coaching staff/FO has made moves recently that have defied logic and common sense, so without being privy to the inner workings of the organization, I can’t say for sure why they’re not playing him. The simplest explanation is that they don’t want to, whatever the reason(s) may be.
This is ridiculously easy to state in hindsight
But a bit more difficult in advance. Salmons is putting up numbers that are about 12 standard deviations away from his career-averaged statistics across the board, and Hickson has provided a small fraction of the offensive production that he flashed in Cleveland last year.
I agree that the trades were questionable, but “defied common sense” is too strong a term for me.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Jan 30, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe so
If he can’t mentally handle 8-10 minutes of game time, then perhaps his time would be better spent parking cars or something.
Salmons and Outlaw have both had success in the league. As much as I dislike both players, it’s hard to deny they have been productive players in the past. And I don’t see Outlaw being unchained from the bench very often. Salmons is a whole other story, that’s been hashed out ad nauseum around here.
I just don’t agree with the idea that you put a guy out there who hasn’t earned it just to see how he does. My guess is they think Whiteside would be overmatched AND he’s still not working hard enough to deserve to play. And with Hayes back, I think our frontcourt rotation will be fine with three productive players (plus Hickson if needed) splitting the minutes.
Tell me this, why do you think they haven’t played Whiteside? Do you think Smart is so dumb he doesn’t think a decent shotblocker and defender would help him at times? What’s the drawback?
This idea that things couldn’t be worse with him in the lineup is ludicrous. I’m not sure I want to see ANOTHER raw player added to the mix when the team is already struggling to become cohesive.
The cries to start Whiteside make as much sense as would a call to start any D-League talent at this point IMO.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I'm not advocating for starting him
Or even giving him 15-20 minutes a night. And really, given some of the awful things we’ve seen this year, what could realistically happen in the 2-3 minutes of time he’d be on the court at any given time that would be worse than what we’ve already seen?
As for the whole Salmons situation, I’ll just say that imo, he’s done nothing this season to “earn” his minutes, yet he’s still getting the burn.
As for why the team isn’t playing whiteside, see my answer to section’s post above. btw, none of my posts/comments are intended to be antagonistic, so hopefully they weren’t interpreted that way!
No, of course not!
I can see where you’re coming from, and maybe he should get some court time in a blowout. But NBA games routinely turn on 2-3 minute stretches, so all minutes are usually valuable to wins and losses.
As far as Salmons, I was one of the most vocal opponents of bringing this guy in and giving him any minutes. However, I also believe in the power of historical statistical performance – and he should most likely improve over time – and I guess that’s what the team is thinking as well. Realistically, he should become at least an adequate player in his role.
There’s still way more rationale to give Salmons minutes on this squad than Whiteside IMO. Unless Whiteside can play the 3, I guess. :)
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
The new battle cry:
Whiteside at the 3!!!!
We need new things to argue about around here, like having too much talent and too few minutes and who gets what, or why we should’ve won 61 games instead of 58!
The good news: the draft lottery is only a few months away, so it’ll soon be time to argue about how much that atrocity blows (but, but, but teams will tank!!). If memory serves, you and I are of like mind on that one.
Didn't mean to direct any of that at you
Was just taking cheap shots at some of the irrational statements I’ve heard. Every time this is brought up, there seems to be a long line of crazy rationalizations. Again – not saying that’s what you’re doing.
Aren't you tired of this strategy?
We’ve been dealing with it the last three seasons – clearing cap space, getting younger, hoping for the ping pong balls to treat us right.
In the meantime, you’ve got a team getting younger and younger, with players who aren’t meshing and in many cases are either not improving or improving at a glacial pace.
And you want to get even YOUNGER?
Let’s be real, this team’s going to have a decent shot at a top-3 pick regardless of the addition of a decent veteran or two this season (and I’m not talking about guys like John Salmons or Travis Outlaw). But if you “tinker” by adding another vet (and I think having Hayes back at some point will help), perhaps when you add a talented young player via the draft next season, he’s joining a group of players who are a bit more cohesive – and are actually assisting their coach into development of a system that has a chance to have sustained success.
In your scenario, you run the risk of continued blowouts and the instilling of a losing atmosphere around all of your young players IMO.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Yes, I am tired of this strategy. What other options are there? I used to believe that those significant veterans would be added, and I still waiting...
That is part of my point. The reason this scenario is deja vu is my original posting premise – Again.
Building a team of mixed components of stars, young and established, glue guys and utility guys, role players and a steady, heady bench crew as we groom the rookies for a productive future. It sounds great. But it ain’t happening here in Sacramento with the Malindas writing the checks as they long for their dream of the train of Aston Martins driving to see them host their team in Orange County.
What we have here is a team that can only grow like a farm team an expansion team. It’s not happening getting desirable free agents and shrewd trades, unless I am mistaken. And obviously, that is not the impression I get. It is the draft. And only the draft.
Getting younger is the problem but it is also the solution. A top pick, a top talent is the way. I am advocating increasing the chance for building the playoff squad we hope for. End of story.
I feel your angst Otis, in fact, we share it. If you can describe an alternative strategy, please, let’s see it.
Lastly, and rhetorically, I am enjoying our “spirited discussion”, that is, to me, one of the beauties of having this wonderful StR format.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 29, 2012 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Me too!
Lastly, and rhetorically, I am enjoying our "spirited discussion", that is, to me, one of the beauties of having this wonderful StR format.
My alternate strategy would be for Smart to continue to develop the pieces he has, let his current crew mesh and hope that Petrie can pick up a decent veteran option at SF and as a rotational guard piece, either now or in the offseason.
Then keep building around Reke and DMC and integrate whatever young player they end up getting in the next draft. But quite frankly, if they used that pick and cap space and a player or two to pull a big-time veteran (this era’s version of the C-Webb trade) it wouldn’t bother me in the least.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
BTE
Beautiful writing. I’ve read your post and a lot of the comments, but I come away a bit confused. There are a few paths you could be suggesting and I am not fully sure what you are advocating:
Path 1 - Don’t make any shortsighted moves. Play to win and develop the young players, while creating a cohesive team. Be a bit zen about the losses that will naturally come, because there is another piece to be had at the end of the road. Don’t get too worked up over losses where we are competitive, because there’s a benefit to both the development and the lottery balls that come with its ups and downs.
Path 2 - Bench the veterans and play young lineups. Lose some momentum and cohesion. Don’t worry if the young guys struggle more from the lack of mentors and role models on the court. More losses are better. Give massive minutes to guys like Whiteside and Honeycut that they haven’t earned and hope they develop. Hope Evans and Cousins don’t get fed up with the franchise. It will lead to far more losses and a better draft pick.
Path 3 - Pull out every stop to tank.
My guess is you are advocating number 2. Personally, I would agree only with path number 1.
The only time two times I have been openly happy about losses were the season with Hawes/Kmart where we won 17 games. The team had no potential star and a meaninfless couple of victories would be more harmful than helpful. Also, the second half of Evans rookie year when Evans was hurt, I was happy with competitive losses as we needed a second star to pair with Evans. He had shown us his potential and with him sidelined, I was happy to see us lose some games and get a better shot at Wall/Favors/Turner/Cousins.
At this point, I would hate to see us make a shortsighted move. Trading JT and picks for a rental of Andre Miller or Jose Calderon would be a stop gap that would potentially get us a couple more wins this year, but hurt us in the long run. I can be a bit zen with the losses as long as the team grows and shows improvement.
However, at a certain point a team needs to start building trust, confidence and actually win. They need to learn from the veterans and coaches how to play team basketball correctly.
I heard a NFL analyst say once that pairing a rookie QB with rookie WRs was generally a bad idea. When the WRs run a good route they aren’t rewarded and vice versa. It created confusion and made it harder to teach. I think that applies here. Throwing Honeycut and Whiteside out and having more games with complete chaos on both sides of the ball is bad for our development. Evans is learning how to be a better run an offense and the whole team is learning how to play good team defense. Having 5 players on the court with a low collective BBall IQ would be detrimental to our development. Because even if one or two do something correctly, it may not lead to a good result if the other players are not making the right decisions. There’s no positive reinforcement and too many plays would devolve into Evans or Cousins doing something crazy to bail the team out.
Point being: At this point we need to develop our internal talent and teach them how to play sound basketball. If that brings competitive losses like the Jazz game, I can live with it. And if we get a better draft pick, I can live with that. However, sacrificing the season and stunting the growth of our team for a few extra percentage points in the lottery just doesn’t make sense right now. And if the GM isn’t competent enough to surround them with the right vets, then we replace the GM. And if the owners refuse to spend money to make this team competitive, then we are hopelessly lost regardless of how many great draft picks we make.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Jan 30, 2012 1:47 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
We are more in line than you think. My worry is that most treacherous and heart wrenching of nouns: Mediocrity
The Kings need to improve to get to mediocre but Mediocrity is a future-paralytic disease. Look at our nearby cousins: The Golden State Warriors. They have spent the money (Baron Davis – ugh, Monte Ellis – ugh, Andris Biedrins – ugh ugh) with some awful decision making (amnesty Charlie Bell’s $4M?) and through it all have been fairly fun to watch – but they can’t win enough to sniff the playoffs and they can’t lose enough to get a good draft pick – it’s an NBA version of purgatory.
Asking this Kings team to improve as they wait to acquire Free Agents and perform significant trades is, IMO, heading down the primrose path with blinders. I can’t and won’t buy it.
So I am on board with the romanticism of Path 1, but look to Path 2 as a more sincere intention. You can’t purposefully lose (Path 3), but the mentors and role models aren’t cutting it. Play Whiteside? Heck no, waive the stiff or trade him off. Honeycutt – yeah, I am okay with playing him, he has a future as of today, maybe not so tomorrow, but yes, boost his ability to earn his minutes, even if just a bit.
The team is currently writing the script to suit me fine. They don’t need help losing, but as I said earlier, don’t de-incentivize not winning to the coaching staff. Without free agents coming to Sacramento, without enough tradeable talent to trade for more talent and with the financial outlook set as low as possible – obtaining talent other than by the draft (and the risk the lottery presents) is just not possible. The NBA is a star league – draft Jared Sullinger or Anthony Davis or Perry Jones or Thomas Robinson or Andre Drummond or Harrison Barnes or Micheal Kidd-Gilchrist – and you draft a position of need with star potential. Then you win games. I just can’t see another sensible way. Getting the 9th pick might even make the Patience Preacher take a powder; even he curses the curse of Mediocrity.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 30, 2012 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Baron Davis – ugh,
Boom was actually a great deal for the Warriors, he got ugh after he left.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2012 10:02 AM PST reply actions
His deal was - sign me to big time money (after shafting his previous team, the Hornets) now our I opt out of my $18M
He opted out, went to the Clips for 5 yr/$65M – that is a double ugh (ugh ugh)
by betweentheeyes on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if we can send Salmons to pick our lotto ball.
He’s an expert in getting low numbers.
This.
by elfboy_ on Jan 31, 2012 10:33 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Kendrick Perkins does not think much of Andrew Bynum’s relative intelligence
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
