A Poll: 10 Reasons to Fire Westphal
via a323.yahoofs.com
There is growing sentiment to fire Coach Paul Westphal, intensifying after recent events surrounding the management of player DeMarcus Cousins. The sentiment is not a new one, with a growing body asking for his head because of the team's performance this season, following the win against the Lakers in the season opener. Many reasons have been cited to fire him, with differing views. Some contend it is not a matter of whether to fire him, but when - now or later.(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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#1 He hasn't improved the team
or the individual players. As TZ writes in his hook this morning, Tyreke was best early on in his rookie season. JT hasn’t really changed much. Spencer never really changed much under his tutelage. Casspi never became anything. DeMarcus has been rather inefficient. With a young team like this, the way to improve the team is to get them to work together and develop together. They haven’t managed to do either and in fact seem to be getting worse.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
It's either on Westphal for not developing the players
Or it’s on Petrie for finding players who have limited upside. Considering we’ve seen flashes of very good play from almost all of these players, I’d guess it’s on Westphal.
Why this team continues to go down this road with him as their head coach is mind boggling.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I still think a lot of the blame lies with the Maloofs
They even had the gall to say they did spend money this summer in some interviews even though they’re now just over the minimum salary. I’m not sure any GM would be able to do much with both hands tied behind their back. Petrie’s done a decent job of assembling young talent, Westphal has done a terrible job of making it work cohesively.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jan 4, 2012 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
We tried to spend money out there, nobody was listening..Kirlenko is staying is the motherland, Hayes we picked up, and I didn’t see Gasol coming here even for a max contract. Only person i could truly see was Sammy or Nene (Don’t get me wrong i would have thrown a lot at Nene to come here. I was irritated at the salmon’s signing.
Honestly at trade deadline I see a Hickson/Outlaw or Hickson/Salmons deal with a Kaman or Okafor coming back. I think only way this works is with a Hickson extension though
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Hickson doesn't need an extension
He’s a RFA, which is valuable.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
How do you reconcile this view point with giving Hayes an extra million?
Its easy to say well thats chicken feed but the fact is they upped their offer from 21 million to 22.4 million over 5 days to make sure Hayes signed. The Maloofs didn’t need to do this, but their generosity to Hayes helped to ensure his return.
If your portrayal were true, they would have offered the same contract, not a better one. Cheapskate and negligent owners would not hand out an extra million so readily.
I feel like fans yourself are ignoring the facts to fit your preconceived notions. I get disliking the Maloofs but they have shown willingness to spend. The Kings were approximately $2.5 million over the minimum floor, with an offer outstanding to AK47 that would have most likely taken the Kings all the way to the cap.
So unless you want to deny the Kings made a decent offer to AK47, ignore that the Kings upped their total money to Hayes, your portrayal of the Maloofs as penny-pinchers is off base.
With all due respect, spare me the I will believe it when I see it counterargument. We are piecing together facts to the best of our ability around here, and there is every reason to believe Kirilenko was on the Kings radar, and a legitimate offer was made.
It is not unreasonable assume that if AK47 was making $8 million in Russia, the Kings offer would be equal or in excess of this annual amount to lure him from his homeland. If you want to believe differently, OK, but your opinion is based on negative bias, not an objective analysis.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I have a hard time reconciling your viewpoint of the Maloofs against your normal "results oriented" postings
They got slightly over the cap minimum this year, but over time have basically strip mined this franchise.
And you call these guys “generous”? They need more than one offseason to change their perception in my eyes.
Fact is, they didn’t land Kirilenko. They didn’t land much of anyone they really wanted. Them’s the hard, cold facts.
Why shouldn’t I think that this lavish spending (ha!) is just an effort to appease Stern in appearing to make an effort, when they really want to just file for relocation in March?
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
The proof is in the pudding
This team currently has one of the lowest payrolls in the NBA, and is spending less on its front office than almost every NBA team, and is spending less on its coaching than almost every team in the NBA.
Talk is cheap. Where the rubber meets the road, the Malindas fall far, far short of the NBA median.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Breakout the cliches...
The proof is in the pudding.
Talk is cheap.
When the rubber meets the road…
When there is contrary evidence to challenge your preconceived notions. I would be the first person to slam the Maloofs if I felt they were not making good on their promise to spend. But I am not going to ignore their passion to win, which is genuine in my estimation, recently demonstrated by Joe’s hilarious chest thumping on opening night, and the subsequent extent of their actions financially consistent with that passion. And I am able to separate my disdain over their desire last spring to skip out of town like a bunch of low belly lizards from recent events and their efforts to put a competitive product on the floor. If no offer to Kirilenko was made, or if it was a low ball offer, if there was no increase in contract to Hayes, if the Kings were at or below the spending floor, instead of above it, I would not hesitate to join the Maloof Bash Bandwagon.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
by bench_blob on Jan 4, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure why you went all personal (yet again)
Probably because the facts that I stated refuted your claim that the Maloofs have somehow opened the vault.
Recapping, you feel that Joe’s chest thumping is enough of a display to earn your trust that the Maloofs are trying to do the right thing. Conversely, I am looking at the fact that they continue to spend pennies on the dollar. Based on that, it would appear that your opinion is based on the emotions displayed by the Maloofs, while mine is based on the money that they factually have not spent.
The moment that this team is spending anywhere near the league average on players, coaches and front office, I will reconsider my stance. But until then, Joe Maloof can chest bump his way through the season and it will not change my mind. But you are more than entitled to follow your and his emotions, as it is your right.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 4, 2012 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How about it just being the players' fault
for not improving. Or a combo of all three. Sure Tyreke excelled when he was option #1-3, but Casspi and Hawes have now had an opportunity to get out and produce without PW and haven’t done so yet. Actaully, Hawes might have something going so far, but history would bet against him keeping up the current level of play.
Point is, the coach doesn’t really look like he’s holding anyone back. The players were all good enough to get drafted, but maybe they were a little overhyped…
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, that could be part of it as well
Then that goes back to Petrie for drafting players with limited upside.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I know it may seem a little bit extreme
but I voted for “all of the above”. Not only the team isn’t improving, he threw a lot of his players under the bus, generating bad comments from many guys, from the marginal Udoka and Casspi to starters and team stars like Reke, DMC, Landry and Dalembert. All of this in 2 seasons….he simply isn’t good enough to coach in the NBA, and coaching a bad team is already harder than coaching a good one.
The sad thing is that many good coaches that were available in this 2 seasons found a job on other teams, so we basically lost the opportunity to interview and try to sell the job to excellent guys like Thibodeau, Adelman and Lawrence Frank.
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
Go Kings!
Adelman was not coming back here under the Maloof’s and he has said as much..Maybe if Burkle bought the team, he would have came..but not under the maloofs
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
The Maloofs...
Don’t get me started!
Musselman, Theus, Natt, Westphal…
We won’t be any good at all until the Maloofs are run out of town.
RIP Patrice O'Neal
Above all #1 the team has not improved
I don’t see a lot of improvement among the young players..everyone looks pretty much the same. I do not like the offense either and even if we did fire him there is no one out there that I can think of who could coach this team.
Let's wait until the team actually starts running an offense to condemn it
Every loss so far looks like the JV scrimmaging against the varsity. Perhaps an abreviated training camp wasn’t the best time to install a new system, but something had to be done to account for Tyreke’s lack of play-making ability.
The real problem is the lack of practice time to learn the new offense. I firmly believe we have yet to see it run correctly on the court.
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry I havent seen one thing about a new system in any game we played..If there’s a new system, then it isn’t showing itself at all
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Exactly
NBA players, even one-year-wonders, should at least know how to make a pass. Haven’t yet seen consistent evidence of that ability on this team.
Ponderous…
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
IMO, critical as it may seem,
I voted for #8. I know that my emotions may be running high at the moment, and that leveling all blame at PW’s feet is a little too easy, but at the moment, he has done nothing to make me feel better about him.
I had no problems with him, indeed was supportive of the idea of him finishing this year, and possibly with a good enough record, letting him extend his stay — but the timing of his spat with DMC could not have been any worse.
It was New Years Day (or the 2nd in my time zone) and to wake up to him publicly destroying someone I consider to be an extremely talented, if young and volatile, player is not the sign of a man who conducts himself in a gentlemanly manner.
It is not a sign of a man who indeed, acts like a man. You have a problem with somebody, you try to solve it with the individual, not whine about it to all & sundry. If you can’t solve it with that person, you deal with it via a third, hopefully impartial party, not air your dirty laundry to all your neighbors. At least, that’s what I was raised to believe.
If players are considered to be role models to us and/or our kids, shouldn’t coaches prove to be role models to players themselves? Their words and behavior as both NBA vets and coaches should be an example to the young men under their charge.
Instead, PW going off on DMC brought to light all of PW’s failings at the other aspects of the game, and this latest incident showed to me that he was incapable of solving those failings. Because to solve one’s failings (and here I’m talking about DMC too), one must first admit what that failure is.
If PW does not own up to his own failings / accountability, isn’t he, as the coach & veteran presence of this young team, passing that on to DMC?
This.
by elfboy_ on Jan 4, 2012 9:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I took #1
But right next would be “He has a record of 51/119 as Kings head coach and I don´t recall him taking responsibility for a bad performance. Ever.”
Just posted this in another thread, but..
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the all the talk of the coaches we could get if Westphal was fired futile?
I can not remember an instance where a new coach, not previously on a team’s staff, was hired after a midseason firing.
Don’t all indications point to Keith Smart if Westphal is fired, and waiting until the offseason to consider a new hire?
He is the worst basketball coach in the nba. Bottomline we need someone to step in ASAP, and even if its a jr. high coach. He needs to go now.
by hesabasketballplayer on Jan 4, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
We see guys like Evans or Cousins come into this league, with a fire
Then, as soon as this team starts losing hard, this team just kinda settles down, becomes apathetic, then just goes through the motions. This is all on the coach. There is supposed to be a level of professionalism, on good teams, where players come out to play, regardless of if they’re winning or losing, and the coaches’ job is to manage this.
Players are accountable (or should be) for their play
I don’t recall seeing a coach go 1-for-5…
Nothing is always anything.
Has no player ever played differently under one coach than another?
Fact is, these players are almost to a man underperforming to their career numbers. Look at Carl Landry. Look at Samuel Dalembert. Hell, look at Andres Nocioni.
Can you give me one player that Westphal has improved once they’ve arrived in Sacramento?
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
To be fair,
Hawes was pretty crappy last year. He’s had a good couple of weeks this year – I hope that he can maintain it. But I don’t see how you put Hawes on Westphal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Agreed
The only true talent to leave town in the last few years was Martin, and frankly I’d rather have Thornton.
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
I dont. I am more saying that he is also playing better with a different system- I think Westphal hampered Hawes more then most coaches would with the system he had in place..
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Well then,
Hawes would have also been hampered by the coaches that preceded Westphal, as well as Doug Collins (he struggled under DC last year, but is doing better this year).
But this is the key question: Is Westphal holding back talent, or is the talent just not there (or at the very least, still very young overall)?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
and some of what Hawes is doing is not sustainable
granted I think he did turn it around though (lowering your foul rate really helps)
by wallywagon11 on Jan 4, 2012 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
And not launching 3's
115 attempts in his next to last year here, 87 in his last year here, 37 last year in Philly, 1 so far this year.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
yeah it was crazy
I like doing trades and free agency pick ups early in basketball given everything is so topsy turvey and even if you screw up you have time to recover a bit. Out of all the fantasy sports (ok, pitchers in baseball is a little different) it’s definitely when I am the most active.
But Beno still stuck to the things he learned while being on the Spurs
and criticized PW as well. I think he just got better on his own, not by the coaching
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 4, 2012 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed on Landry
Dalembert was hurt most of the season, and in fact probably played the best ball of his career down the stretch last season. Nocioni? Really?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think he played fairly well down the stretch
The numbers don’t really back up him playing the “best ball of his career”.
So you disagree with me on two of the three – can you provide one or two who have improved? How about anyone who didn’t come from outside the organization? Tyreke had a great first year, and it’s been all downhill. Cousins is a disaster. We all know what happened with Hawes and Casspi.
Have the players, record, or production overall improved during Westphal’s tenure?
It feels like we can come up with a million excuses (young team, lockout, etc.), but shouldn’t there be SOME improvement over time?
I’m not asking for a lot here, to be honest.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
I agree with what you're saying here,
right up to the point where you lay it all at Westphal’s feet.
I don’t know how one sets about making mediocre players better when they are asked to play beyond their capabilities. To wit, guys like Chuck Hayes or J.J. Hickson or Jason Thompson or DeMarcus Cousins. These are all guys that have never produced at a level to be called good NBA starting material, yet they have all been pressed into starting duty.
Rick Adelman had a knack for getting the most out of his role players, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that he had the talent on the roster that allowed his role players to be role players. Westphal is having to ask a lot more of his role players, as that is mostly what he has throughout his roster.
I will agree 100% that I am frustrated by the lack of growth in Evans. It’s still too early to make the call on Cousins.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Is it possible that 6 games of a new season is too early to judge?
New players, new “system,” a few days of training camp… If these guys commit to figuring out what to do, is it possible they may improve this year?
Personally, I like the idea of Tyreke being more dedicated to defense. Given his abilities, I think he has a better chance doing that than making an offense work.
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Vinny Del Negro part 2
The more I watch Westphal the more I feel like the Kings got Vinny Del Negro on the sidelines. I’m less upset with Westphal’s treatment of Cousins and more upset with the play on the court. I’m probably just a huge homer, but I feel like the team has underperformed each year under Westphal’s tenure. The Kings have too much talent to be blown out of this many games so far.
by who betta than kanyon? on Jan 4, 2012 10:18 AM PST reply actions
Well, we've seen what this team can do when they are on it. This isn't like the Raptors, who will struggle to win even when they play well.
When this team plays well, they look frightening, ie the Lakers game. (Hornets game was mediocre and it’s not often that a team misses all their threes). In every loss sans the Blazers, the Kings have just looked bad. In all facets. If there is an offensive scheme, I couldn’t tell you what it is. Run high post for a few seconds, then hand off to a guard who dribbles out the clock?
by VenomySnicket on Jan 4, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Westphal might very well not be up to this challenge...
But I have seen time after time players dribbling into a double team and chucking up a prayer. In ANY system, basketball is about getting open.
Any inability to do so on a scale like this comes down to a lack of 1) effort, 2) ability or 3) understanding of the fundamentals of offensive play. All of these players know how to get open or get someone else open. They are failing to do so.
If they are between the lines, they are in a position to succeed.
Nothing is always anything.
I guess that I have to go with #10
I’m not against firing him, but I would either want a significant upgrade at the head coach position (I do not see Keith Smart as a “significant” upgrade), or I would have to see that Westphal has lost the team (this may or may not be happening – too soon to tell).
Westphal has his shortcomings, but he is “blessed” with a roster where his two highest paid players are John Salmons and Francisco Garcia. Chuck Hayes should be a super 3rd big man, not your best overall big man. The balance of the roster is still largely unproven.
The bottom line is that firing Westphal changes little, unless you’re bringing in a crapload more talent somewhere/somehow, whether it is at the coach or player level.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Should they not improve over time?
I think we could put someone in there just to halt the regression, even if it doesn’t result in a huge improvement.
Honestly, I wonder if he’s actually harming the future of this group of players. Getting someone in to stop the bleeding actually sounds promising to me at this point.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Like Kenny Natt?
Again, I agree that Westphal should go if he has lost the team, or if you can land an elite coach. If his philosophy is stunting the growth of the players, an interim coach will not be able to enact enough change in this compressed season to change that, as it would mean installing an entirely new offense and defense with virtually no practice time. I see that as counter-productive for such a young and inexperienced team. But if you are bringing in an elite coach that is going to use the rest of the season to evaluate talent so that he may properly implement change down the road, then I think that it is a positive move.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I don't recall Natt wrecking the little talent we had here at the time
granted don’t recall a heck of a lot of winning either
by wallywagon11 on Jan 4, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
are you upset the Kings fired Theus when they did?
by wallywagon11 on Jan 4, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
No, they had to fire Theus as he had lost the team
If Westphal loses the team, he has to go.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Aside from Kevin Martin,
what is this talent of which you speak?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
lol, have to admit I was thinking the same thing when I typed it
I guess I would have to use the term very loosely and say Beno, JT, and Hawes.
by wallywagon11 on Jan 4, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
I think we fundamentally disagree
I think you see Westphal as a guy that can keep the plane in a holding pattern until the right coach comes along. I see a guy who has the plane in a tailspin.
It doesn’t mean you need to hire a Kenny Natt (although I’m not sure he’d do worse). I’d much rather take a chance on Keith Smart to finish out the season.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Jan 4, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good assessment
You feel that he has lost this team to whatever extent. I’m not there yet.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yep, and I totally respect your opinion
It always helps to read your posts, as it reminds me to take the emotion (with the rare exception!) out of the argument. And I’ll confess that there is a bit of that included in my feelings towards PW.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
Yeah,
we’re definitely not watching fun basketball right now.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Larry Brown
Why not hire Larry Brown for a few seasons? He was able to work things out with Allen Iverson and has a history of turning around franchises.
by who betta than kanyon? on Jan 4, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Larry Brown probably costs $5m per season more than what the Malindas are willing to spend
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
It's shame
Because the one thing this team needs, is to learn to play “the right way.”
Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...
by The Crown Royal Gentleman on Jan 4, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Seen this movie already...
I won’t shed a tear if Westphal leaves, but how does an interim coach get/keep control of a bad team?
It’s a young team and one whose players don’t know each other very well yet. I think a little consistency is a good thing. The coaching carousel needs to stop at some point. Maybe it’s not yet, but if you make one switch now, you’ll need another in about 5 months.
Remember, adversity can also make a team improve. Don’t the Kings deserve that opportunity – both the good and bad of it?
Nothing is always anything.
If Westphal is just a bad coach for this group
Why would you want to give him more time to hinder their development? Didn’t they go through adversity last year? How much more do they need?
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
What team did he coach last year?
He has surely dug a hole by implementing a new offense, but this team is largely different than last year’s (at least those on the court). Tyreke’s injury changed his role last year, Thornton was brought in and told to hold on for dear life down the stretch. Cousin’s pounded one game, pouted the next…
I want proof that the team understands the new offense and is running it in games before I declare it won’t work. Right now they don’t get it. But after three weeks, that’s not much of a surprise.
We don’t know yet if it’s failing or not because the players can’t seem to run it yet. Once they get the nuances of it, if it still isn’t working, fire the coach. But why do so before he’s done what he is being paid to do?
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
So two years plus and we are basically starting over?
Isn’t that essentially a black mark against the coach?
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Jan 4, 2012 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
BTW...
What happened to the majority of last season’s coaching staff? Seems underreported.
Nothing is always anything.
by Docile Ocelot on Jan 4, 2012 10:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hey here’s an Idea, If KJ somehow loses his Mayoral Re-election, bring him in as your new Sacramento Kings head coach..If he can deal with Sheedy, i am sure DMC would be no problem!
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
he can multi-task
Mayor/Head Coach/Part-time Player
by who betta than kanyon? on Jan 4, 2012 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
not on the bandwagon... yet
I officially floccinaucinihilipilificate Drew Gooden, Gerald Wallace, DeJuan Blair, Scott Brooks, the Los Angeles Clippers, and the internet.
I voted for not liking his beard
I’m still convinced this is his evil twin.

by Rambaldi on Jan 4, 2012 3:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Just looked at the Poll running at SacBee on the Westphal and Cousins spat.
Results are dramatically different from results of this poll.
In this poll, 84% of respondents are in favor of firing Paul Westphal for one or more reasons, while only 11% are not in favor of firing him, and 5% don’t like his beard.
In the SacBee poll, posted today, currently 42% are in favor of Westphal over 23% in favor of Cousins, while 35% are split on the issue.
I would infer that the SacBee respondents are giving their endorsement to Paul Westphal, while the StR respondents clearly are not, although the polls questions are not the same.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
^polls' questions
Whose side do you take in the Paul Westphal – DeMarcus Cousins spat?
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."


















