Keith Smart's Rare But Attainable Goal: A Running Team That Rebounds
by Tom Ziller on Jan 6, 2012 11:07 AM PST
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PrintKeith Smart's Sacramento Kings head coaching career got off to a terrific start on Thursday with a spirited, improbable comeback win. Though the Milwaukee Bucks were without Andrew Bogut, the team is solid and was relatively rested. The Kings are not and were not. Sacramento struggled to shoot well, struggled to defend well and wasn't hot from really any spots. But they came back and won the game in the final minutes with timely points and a few staunch defensive possessions from Tyreke Evans and John Salmons.
As it turns out, while the game was an ugly win in the box score, it was exactly what Smart said he wants for this team.
In his introductory press conference, Smart actually got into Xs and Os, saying that his style is up-tempo, but that he feels the Kings have the size to rebound and run. That's important: most running teams are pegged as soft in the paint, unable to seal off the glass in critical moments or for sustained periods. That was certainly true of Mike D'Antoni Phoenix clubs, despite their success. It was certainly true of Don Nelson's Warriors clubs that Smart saw first-hand. The teams ran, but they weren't at all successful on the defensive glass. It appeared to be an either/or proposition.
But Smart said he thinks the Kings' combination of size and speed allows the ideal to survive. It's exactly what the Kings did on Thursday: they rebounded extremely well on both ends, and in the second half they ran quite a bit with a few stand-out fast breaks.
I wanted to see how often up-tempo teams thrive on the defensive glass. I set decently high benchmarks for each -- 95 or more possessions per game (which four teams beat last year) and a 75 percent or better defensive rebound rate (earned by about six teams a year). Excluding the short current season, the only team to match those criteria ever: last season's 50-win Denver Nuggets.
Drop it to a 74-percent defensive rebound rate, and you add a very interesting second team from last season: the Sacramento Kings. The 2008-09 Indiana Pacers and two clubs from the mid-70s also join the party.
So right off the bat, Smart's right, because this team has already played up-tempo while rebounding well on the defensive glass. The question is whether it can be successful and sustainable. And that's comes down to two players: Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins.
For Evans, it's about hitting the glass hard (as he did on Thursday); he's the one wing on this squad that can far outrebound his position. Even as a small forward he's at average. But when Evans gets those rebounds, it's on him to swing the ball upcort to Marcus Thornton, Jimmer Fredette, John Salmons or Isaiah Thomas, or to get on the run himself, depending on traffic, the state of the game and where the carom falls.
For Cousins, it's about continuing to own the glass and it's about hustling down the floor, straight into the paint. Making the opposing center work to get back down the court every time makes the most of Cousins' playing time, which will unfortunately be limited by conditioning (even this season, when he's in much better shape) and foul trouble. Get into position quickly and give the guards on option before running the old high pick and roll.
Jason Thompson and J.J. Hickson fit into this, so long as they are getting their touches inside of 10 feet and are rebounding hard. Travis Outlaw, if he finds his stroke, can be a rebounding weapon at the three or four, and has the added lure of being a deep threat on the secondary break. Thornton is the only wing getting playing time that looks like a poor passer; Evans and Salmons are maligned in that area, but that's mostly because Evans is playing point guard and Salmons is so methodical. They pass just fine, if not great. Fredette continues to look like a solid playmaker, though we haven't seen him run many breaks yet.
As far as rebounding from the wings, Salmons is a disaster -- I'm not sure if it's slow reaction times, the hefty defensive responsibility he's taken or what, but he's just not going to get you many rebounds -- and Fredette will have low numbers, I'm sure. Thornton can bang, Evans is (again) stupendous and Isaiah will earn a surprising number when he's out there. If Garcia continues to get minutes, he's not an aid there. But Evans should carry the load outside of the big men.
I look forward to seeing whether Smart gets his wish. The tools look to be in place.
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RUN DMC
No really; Run DMC!!!! Run!
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Jan 6, 2012 11:13 AM PST reply actions 18 recs
MAJOR points...
To whomever makes the Star Wars meme for this. It shall be used repeatedly.
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
by HarveySpecter on Jan 6, 2012 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Good analysis, Z.
It feels like this is doable, but I felt that way two weeks ago, too. Hopefully, KS will run their asses ragged, and sit them if they can’t do it.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen. And for a limited time, every third person who follows me on Twitter (andy_sims) gets a free ice cream cone.
Which I will eat.
Amazing.
There´s instantly a definition of style that I´m actually buying into. A running team that rebounds, sounds like a plan. Go Kings
We need a coach who gives X's and O's
This fan base has zero trust right now. A little transparency would go a long way right now.
Did you not see
Smart drawing up plays during the game? He’s told us a solid amount, he doesn’t need to share the game time strategy with us. Oh yeah! Let’s tell alllll the other teams how we’d plan to guard them.
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
by HarveySpecter on Jan 6, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Smart is that guy.
Peaches made a comment early in the game about probably not seeing much of a difference in the style of play because it was Smarts first day as head coach . To which Jerry Renolds replied " I see a difference already, that was a called play coming out of a time out , that resulted in a score ".
Exceptional breakdown.
I really think this offense is to our benefit. Even our slowest player (Cousins) is faster than most at his position.
Westphal offense was drive and kick, which should work for Tyreke but didn’t because everyone didn’t move. A faster break-driven offense should really open up the immediate passing lanes, and if the Kings are smart, they’ll start working on some wheel or motion style.
Tyreke drive up the floor, kick to Thornton, if not open pass to the top, if not open keep swinging it until someone is.
Really like Smart. Think he’ll do a fine job.
by LightningStrike5 on Jan 6, 2012 11:25 AM PST reply actions
We should know more by Sunday
with two days of practice, you’ve got to think Smart will get at least some of this worked in by then. Go kings!
Happier
The nice things about yesterdays performance in my opinion were that things looked different. Regardless if it had to do with Keith Smart being the coach or whatever, players were attempting to move the ball. I’m a Tyreke supporter but it drives me crazy when he gets tunnel vision on the fast break. For the first time in a long time, I saw him make the right plays and to take what the defense gave him. Hope this trend continues.
He even gave it up so early on a break one time
my thought at the time was he just gave it up so there was time that he could get it back. I don’t remember if we scored or not, but I remember he didn’t get it back.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Jan 6, 2012 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There was one time
he gave it up to Thornton, Thornton gave it back to Tyreke, and Tyreke gave it up to JJ who was trailing right down the lane and finished with a slam. Best FB of the season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 6, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I. Agree.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 6, 2012 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
If my history is correct,
Smart is the first Kings coach since Adelman to win his first game as the Kings coach.
Adelman: W on Nov 5th 1999
Mussleman: L on Nov 1st 2006
Theus: L on Oct 31st 2007
Natt: L on Dec 16th 2007
Westphal: L on Oct 28th 2009
Smart: W on Jan 5th 2012
I know there are contributing factors other than the coach himself, but I thought it was interesting.
أشهد أن لا جيمٌر إلا الجيمٌر والملوك رسل الجيمٌر
This can only mean
Smart will become the franchise’ winnest coach!
by LightningStrike5 on Jan 6, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
He's already this years only undefeated NBA coach.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 12 recs
He's gotta leave on a high note like George Costanza
“Alright folks, you’ve been great, goodnight!”
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
He already has the highest Winning % of all Kings coaches ever!
Should sign him to a lifetime deal.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Jan 6, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The amazing thing is who would have thought in a million years that we would come out with the W.
I know I sure didn’t.
Smart sounded very excited at the prospect of coaching a team that has “the size to rebound and run,” to the point of almost sounding giddy.
After five games in six nights I was amazed the team had anything left in the tank, but Tyreke looked great and Cousins, after trimming off a few pounds, looked very fit.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
You sure Kenny Natt lost his first game...
Going only by memory (so if I’m wrong, so be it), Wasn’t Kenny Natts first game, was during the trade deadline, because of so many moves, we were down to like 8 players, Donte got some burn and hit a few 3s and we actually won???
My bad if I am wrong on this.
The Kings suited 10 as Natt's first game was a month and a half prior to the trade line,
but you are correct in that he did win his first game.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 6, 2012 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I should have said they played 10 - they probably suited 12.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Fire Smart Hire Natt!
it sounded better than Hire smart, hire Smart
by betweentheeyes on Jan 6, 2012 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We eventually out-talented Milw last night
but we certainly didn’t out execute them. I dream of seeing the Kings successfully run sets like that with our talent.
Do we have the brains? The focus? The chemistry? (whatever the formula is?)
Please give me a sign.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 12:09 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Kings fans deserve this sign today...
...Watching DeMarcus Cousins’ transformation from large human to immortal kill beast...
by Sacto_J on Jan 6, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
This is one of the greatest things I have ever seen
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
But they rebounded well last season
The advanced stats I saw had them in the elite category as far as rebounds. How is this a new plan?
we'll see
I think at the very least the fact everyone is not ready to kill each other at a second’s notice is a nice first step but yeah definitely do not know if there is much of a plan at all yet passed just talking about wanting one
by wallywagon11 on Jan 6, 2012 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Someone new is saying it.
"He forced it to go in the net, and that's a good thing."
"Generally speaking, the ball is the only thing that can score."
-Jerry Reynolds
heads up Primo
the fanpost I plan on having done on Monday or Tuesday about the fantasy basketball league is likely going to have your team in the title. Don’t want you to be thrown off too much.
FIRST TIME EVER!!!
First time I heard a Kings player say that there were good plays drawn up.
This is great to hear!
by shoopuhman on Jan 6, 2012 12:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Total aside
but did you guys see that cut of Barkeley, Reggie, and Harlan talking about Weight Watchers and the Atlanta Hawks. That was kind of awesome.
I did see it
On Deadspin, which gave it a very misleading headline. Barkeley is a cool dude because he just don’t give a damn.
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
We have a plan
that might even be attainable with the players we have.
I don’t know what to think.
Is it just me, or......does anyone else not see this cast of Kings as a running team?
Quick aside, I want to give Evans some credit for actually passing the ball on the break some last night, it was nice to see.
What makes us good candiadtes to be a running team?
Tyreke Evans embarrasses people driving the lane at times, but essentially only for himself. At this point we hope he’ll make the obvious play in transition, he certainly isn’t a candidate to do anything creative in transition for anyone else. In addition, while Tyreke is absurdly quick, he doesn’t seem predisposed to pushing the ball up the floor fast, and when he does his decision making at this point isn’t anything to write home about unless there is a seam to the basket for himself. I love Tyreke, but vision / playmaking aren’t among his gifts. He might be pretty good at them someday but he doesn’t have a natural feel for them.
Our other ballhandling, frankly sucks. Can anyone imagine Thornton or Salmons pushing the ball leading a break? I can’t either. They also are competant finishers, but certainly not special. Neither are Rudy Gay filling the lane. Neither is anything special in terms of hustling up the floor fast to be in position to fill lanes either.
There is no Josh Smith, Blake Griffin or athletic type big guy that runs the floor like a gazelle and is a nightmarish threat to finish a break.
On the other side, we have the pieces to be a good defensive team. We also have most of the pieces to be a good half court team. Evans makes better decisions in halfcourt where he knows where people are supposed to be. Thornton will make open shots if we ever get him any. DMC/Hayes/Hickson/JT is a nice set of bigs with complementary skills. If we could find an athletic 3 to guard people make open shots and move the ball over the next year or two (the guy Tayshaun Prince used to be); that’s a traditionally Eastern Conference team with quite a bit of potential.
Anyone else see things this way, or what am I missing?
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
by Grasul on Jan 6, 2012 12:42 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much spot on
But we still need our starting PG. I see Thornton as more of a Jason Terry than James Harden.
by VenomySnicket on Jan 6, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Running the floor
Doesnt always mean finishing on a fast break. Just running the floor forces the defense to just get back and cover guys getting out on the break, even if who they end up defending isn’t ideal for them. So even if we get out on the break and end up pulling into a half court set, that doesn’t mean the defense is in an ideal half court defensive setup. Forcing the defense to get back quickly may likely result in defensive mismatches we can exploit – a big man covering Tyreke, a small forward on Cousins, etc.
by sactoreg on Jan 6, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
I also remember a Thorpe comment from 2 seasons ago, which was essentially that by walking the ball up the floor you give the other team 5 or 6 seconds of rest that they’re not entitled to. Pushing doesn’t have to mean constant fast breaks- just getting the ball up-court faster and initiating the offense sooner.
Standing around on the weak side for the entire shot clock gives them even more rest
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Easy baskets on quick run outs, cherry picking
Those things that burn the Kings can be used to up tempo the team when the opportunity arises and a weapon that has been sorely underutilzed by this current squad
by betweentheeyes on Jan 6, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
It's ridiculous sometimes
the ball isn’t near the 3 pt line until there’s 10-11 seconds left on the clock way too often.
That’s all rest and prep for the other team.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Ah, found it
Inefficient offensive units often have a tendency to squander a good 10 seconds before getting into their sets. Finding good shots against a defense as stingy as Cleveland’s is a tough business, and the more time you budget to generate those looks the better. By milking 10 seconds off the clock, you also let your opponent off the hook because it requires far less energy to defend for 14 seconds than 24 seconds.
Big frustration
It kills me when I see the guards walking the ball up. Tyreke does this habitually.
by boredwiththeUSA on Jan 6, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Last night Smart
was yelling at who ever had the ball to run it up every possession.
by ThomasGQ on Jan 6, 2012 5:37 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I agree on some point, but see it completely differently overall
You make some good points about different strengths and weaknesses, but there is a valid flip side.
Tyreke can be a nightmare for the other team when he drives and ’rekes havoc with their defense, but this works best in transition before the other team gets set. When the team runs and gets back before other team gets set they make easy buckets. Otherwise they end up taking tough shots almost every time.
How much of Tyreke not pushing the ball was PW’s emphasis on using his “system”? Also, just because Tyreke and Thornton seem to more like scorers than play makers does not mean we should give up on trying to run some transition and make plays. It means that we may need to use Jimmer to IT2 more, but I don’t think it a coincidence that Tyreke was passing more when they ran last night.
PW tried to invert the offense and have the ball going through the bigs up high with the guards driving, not passing, from the wings. This may be more about why Tyreke’s assists have been down than about Tyreke’s game or abilities. I don’t think we should assume much about the players’ abilities given that they were trying to run a system that did not best utilize their talents.
Further, our bigs are young and can run. This team can run other teams into the ground just with its youth. This is especially true for JT and Hickson. They are Energizer bunnies in terms of going and going.
I think this team should run and run and run. I see it completely differently.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
by CowbellKings on Jan 6, 2012 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If we're going to run...
We’re going to need JJ Hickson in the starting lineup. That’s a given with the Chuckwagon out for four weeks, but I think it needs to be consistently like that; Cuz’s conditioning is improving, but I’d like to see JJ as our main big man to run the floor and finish strong. Outside of Blake Griffin, Deandre Jordan, and Javale McGee, there’s no big man that’s better at getting up and down the floor than JJ. I understand that it gives our bench limited offensive ability (neither JT nor Chuck Hayes is really a Post option), but I might have an idea for that.
My Rotation:
Starters:
PG—Jimmer—Let’s throw him out there and let him learn. He runs the floor well, throws good passes, and has good court vision.
SG—Tyreke—excellent second option to run or primary option to finish the break.
SF—Salmons—still a better defender than Donte, though Donte has been performing better in his limited minutes than Salmons has in his starter minutes.
PF—JJ Hickson—see above.
C—Big Cuz—see above.
Bench (in the order they come on the court, not their position):
Marcus Thornton—Provides the offensive punch our second unit severely lacks.
Hayes—Defense and rebounding.
Thompson—see Hayes + the occasional jumper—also, he runs the floor and can finish strong at the rim, if he can catch a pass.
Isaiah—Because we need someone in the second unit that can pass.
Donte @ SF—playing better than Outlaw and Garcia. Please use him.
I'm @Magnego on Twitter.
I cannot agree with those who rank modesty among the virtues. To the logician all things should be seen exactly as they are, and to underestimate one’s self is as much a departure from truth as to exaggerate one’s own powers.
--Holmes, on Modesty
by Donovan Jeska on Jan 6, 2012 12:43 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think Jimmer is a long ways away from being able to handle this role. Let’s give him a few months to get a feel for the NBA before he gets this kind of responsibility. Its for his own good.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
I dunno
He doesn’t strike me as mentally fragile. Plus he’s older than Tyreke or DeMarcus.
I get the feeling he’s a guy that can handle some adversity without it breaking him. If that’s the case, the more work you give him early, the sooner you might be able to reap the rewards.
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" - Michael Scott
by otis29 on Jan 6, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree I haven't seen "fragility"
and I think he’s got the right tools (vision / passing ability / willingness); he just looks like things are happening very fast for him out there at this point.
Which isn’t a crime, its totally understandable, but it would be nice to ease him into the fire a little. Maybe we don’t have that luxury.
What we've got here is, failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
He has the willingness
I don’t know about the vision/passing ability. He’s thrown way more bad passes that have been deflected than good ones that lead to baskets. He looks comfortable when he is looking for his shot and unsure and slightly confused when he has no where to go or picks up his dribble. To me he is more of an instinctual scorer than passer. This may all be due to the lack of experience but his play so far has given me no reason to think he is a natural play runner.
It's looked to me, in what little I've seen of the season, that he needs a little more zip on his passes
The more obvious ones are sort of floating to their recipient and their defender, faster than those in college, are getting in front of them.
by lead_pipe on Jan 6, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%
Needs to break that habit.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Not sure I buy that
He’s thrown way more bad passes that have been deflected than good ones that lead to baskets.
Admittedly this season is young. But at the moment he is averaging the second highest assist per 36 minutes of our 4 guards (Behind Evans.) And he is averaging the second lowest turnovers per 36 of the guards. (Behind Thomas.) And this is with the lowest usage rate of all four guards.
He definitely has a ton of room to improve—I mean he’s a rookie. But all the talk about him being a bad passer appears to be more in people’s heads than on the court. I think Smart is seeing something which is why Jimmer is spending more time on the court. I expect to see a lot more of Jimmer and Thirnton playing the 1 and 2, with Evans playing the 3. That is really a tough match up for most teams to guard and gives us more of a run and gun type of feel. Thomas is the only other player on the team who would be better at pushing a fast pace up the floor and he doesn’t require the same defensive attention Jimmer does.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Jan 6, 2012 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree, but
I think Smart is seeing something which is why Jimmer is spending more time on the court.
We may have to check with the Small Sample Size Institute to see if 1 game is small enough to count this as a trend :)
But Smart explicitly stated his thoughts on this..
I can’t remember his exact words, but he addressed this in the post game interview. He said he put Jimmer in because he wanted better or more play making, something along those lines, and that is why he had Jimmer on the floor with MT and Evans.
You could draw an implication from his comments that he felt that Jimmer is a better play maker than either MT or Evans. Not sure that would be accurate, but you can definitely take away that Jimmer is a play maker in his mind.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Sure seems like he thinks Jimmer is a playmaker
until he starts him or explicitly states Tyreke is less of a playmaker, I wouldn’t bother with the inferences.
Yep, that is a definite takeaway.
Though I don’t know that seeing him getting starts would mean that either. I could see Jimmer, MT, and Evans all starting and it not meaning that.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Yeah I don't see him throwing the ball away at all
If anything he sometimes just seems to think a little too long and not react quick enough (I can’t see that lasting long). His turnovers seem to come from ball handling more than anything.
I think that's more of an indictment on Salmons
Offensive production thus far in the season. He’s been atrocious. However his on-ball defense is still as advertised.
Yet Salmons is not a true SF. His Defense has been almost as Bad as his Offense.
He was out-sized and outplayed by Gerald Wallace, Rudy Gay and Gallinari. His skill as on-ball position defender is negated if he is giving up so much height and weight it doesn’t matter that he has solid defensive fundamentals.
He did good job on Kobe in season opener and on Stephen Jackson, but these guys are SGs.
He will be giving up 4-5 inches in height to Hedo on Sunday.
I think the Grim Reaper of Coaching was so unhappy with his SF trio (Omri, Donte, Cisco), he was willing to trade for a veteran SG coming off his worst year with hopes he could get away with playing him out of position.
Geoff relented to this request and his culpable for the consequences. At the time I was OK with the deal to clear time for Jimmer, and balance the roster. But seeing it play out so far, I don’t see how Salmons can play as SF and be anything but below mediocre.
I guess the plan was Salmons would create mismatch offensively at SF, but that has yet to materialize, and given that he is 30 years and seems to have lost half of a step, I don’t think it ever will.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
Jimmer has never turned the ball over that I recollect
if he did, it would come right back to him.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he just needs
More confidence in those laserpoint passes. Some of those turnovers I see where he wants to go, and on other teams the PG will shovel it out strong. If he gets that confidence, that part of it might improve, but I definitely see him looking, at least.
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
by HarveySpecter on Jan 6, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Instead of things being too fast, which might be the case initially
Maybe it’s the fact that no one knew where they were supposed to be, or was moving to get open so he’s have a passing lane to pass out of the double team or in the lane.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Jan 6, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good god
I could talk for half an hour of the lack of passing lanes being created. Movement off the ball to create them is I think the biggest problem with our assist rate.
Feel free to shift a bit guys so we don’t constantly have ball handlers being trapped and / or big men with no options but to take a guarded 15 footer.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
I have my concerns but
after one day the team has been given an identity. Tha’ts awesome. They can now be on the same page.
jimmer not ready to start
Not a knock on his offense because that’s well documented. Its his ballhandling. His turnovers cancel out any assists he gets. Honestly, A run and rebound team is fine with me. That’s a better brand than the b.s. before it.
by kuhreem on Jan 6, 2012 12:53 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Ball movement is definitely an issue
Jimmer is open half the time out on the perimeter, but Salmons, Evans, and Thornton don’t even glance his way before barreling down the lane. Give the kid more chances.
by kslick on Jan 6, 2012 12:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Last night there was an actual Tyreke sighting!!!
Many folks here know that I have been BRUTAL toward Evans this year. I will state though, that last night gave me some renewed hope.
I already love Smart because he (mostly) did something that I have been clamoring for – he played Evans at PG. I have been saying that Evans isn’t very special at the two, but presents all sorts of problems as a one. Last night showed why. With the exception of one possession in the 2nd half (Tyreke had a 3 on 1 but out-ran his wings who were filling), I though Evans showed that he could handle being the PG. My only complaint was that Smart moved Fredette to the one when he came into the game. At this point I don’t agree with that. With Tyreke at the one, we can afford to play an undersized two. Tyreke should be kicking the ball out to Jimmer, not the other way around. Defensively they can cross cover as Jimmer will always need to take the lesser back court player.
Cousins was terrific. He WILL be the dominant player we want him to be. He is amongst the greatest rebounders in the NBA right NOW. When he slows down on offense, he will be a real load.
Thornton can be flat incredible. He was the best player on the court in the second half.
I don’t want to get too riled up after one home win against a poor team, but the on-court attitude was noticeably different. I was VERY happy to see it. Given time to implement some of his stuff, I think Smart will be very good. His pedigree is very impressive. I LOVED how he refused to address anything in the past in his presser. The dude is class.
by Hoops Mike on Jan 6, 2012 1:22 PM PST reply actions 9 recs
uhm
I don’t want to get too riled up after one home win against a poor team
- and I wouldn’t.
We have such superior physical talent that it finally won out. No credit (OK, just a bit) at all goes to our plays.
Hands down the Bucks ran much much better plays.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
I'M GONNA GET RILED UP WHENEVER WE WIN THIS SEASON
MY NAME'S AL HARRINGTON, I GET BUCKETS
by LLcoolRay on Jan 6, 2012 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
let's see if we can keep your rile up for another game or three
A win streak greater than one would be nice
by betweentheeyes on Jan 6, 2012 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
back-to-back-to-back rilings
"when young kids go to shootaround at the park, they shoot followay shots and buzzer beaters and pretend to be Kobe and Lebron…but what they don’t realize is that when they shoot more than 50 shots they are actually pretending to be John Salmons."
by TheFifthMookie on Jan 6, 2012 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Will you have to see a doctor
if you are riled up for 4 or more games?
by luckthefakers on Jan 7, 2012 8:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I think Tyreke and the rest of the team plays better when they have a set position and aren’t changing position every offensive possession. I also think that Smart can teach Reke and help him to develop into a difficult PG to deal with. He plays much better when he is told run too, as Smart did last night. Too big things I think Smart can teach him is how to control the tempo and how to benefit from controlling the tempo.
by ThomasGQ on Jan 6, 2012 5:54 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Evans will never be acceptable at the PG in my opinion
until he starts making smart decisions more than 20 percent of the time. That position is your floor general, you have to know better. Dribbling around aimlessly, letting the clock run out, worrying about his moves instead of reading the floor. His one-on-one mentality helps create that hapless look of other players standing around, watching.
Jimmer and Thomas, our least experienced, are the only ones getting other people involved. We have a lot of problems, but the priority in my mind should be 1) Team D; 2) Assists
simply can’t win games shooting like crap, then letting the other team run 3 on zero fastbreaks. Disgusting at this level.
Salmons has been a letdown for the most part, his heart just doesn’t seem in it most of the time. Why we have never experimented more with Reke at 3 is beyond me—let him be a slasher and focus on D. Start Isiah, Thornton, Reke, Hickson and Cousins. What can it hurt?
Rotation - my 2 cents
PG – Evans
SG – Thornton
SF – Salmons
PF – JJ Hickson
C – Cousins
1st – Chuck Hayes
2nd – Jimmer
3rd – J. Thompson
4th – Francisco Garcia
Deep Bench:
Outlaw
I. Thomas
Greene
Thomas has a future – just not this year. The other two are crap. Donte is USELESS. Outlaw was a terrible signing.
Garcia was great last night. He might be the best defender on this team. He can do some of everything. He is literally better than Outlaw at EVERYTHING. I have no idea why people are down on him.
cause cisco has a gypsy curse that reigns down injuries from above
by Brannigan's Law on Jan 6, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, you aren't wrong.
The strange season-ending Twister injury is right around the corner…..
Francisco Garcia out 6-8 weeks
After suffering a torn hand ligament while playing “Jenga” at his home today
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
by darooster on Jan 6, 2012 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Completely disagree on Greene & Outlaw, as well as your bench rotation
"Clowns hate how I lock this down, but if they think I'm obnoxious now, wait til I pop Cristal." - Copywrite
I think Donte has chance under new coach
Now that the Grim Reaper of Coaching has been cast aside, and because Salmons is not a true SF, Cisco is more of a SG too. Outlaw is more of a stretch PF…his competition has thinned.
To sum up, the current starting SF stinks, the backups are not true SFs. Tyreke can play there too, but there is opportunity for Donte to seize.
Can Donte step up? Doubtful.
Could he get into rotation, play well, save his career, become new starter at the ‘3’? Would love it if it could happen, but probably not. I do think Coach Smart will give him every chance where the former boss had pretty much given up on him.
At least he showed up in shape this year.
And there is a few more things to like: athleticism, size, defensive potential, gets garbage points, fills lane on break, catch and finish oops, too confident from ‘3’ land, but has streaky ability.
Unfortunately, no handles, board skills, or offensive ability between 3 point line and a dunk.
Now is put up or shut up time for Donte, and the coaching change could be the catalyst to something positive.
Spencer Hawes is #1 in NBA FG%, 3rd in rebounds and 5th in block shots.
Can Donte finally transform into a player too?
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
by bench_blob on Jan 6, 2012 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems like halftime changed our team
He said something very inspiring for our guys to come out in the third like that. I’ve never seem them that energetic to start a third quarter.
It doesn't seem
so far fetched, with winning 2 games under PW, that this team could easily have an above .500 record with Smart, right? RIGHT!? I mean he at least has a plan. With no offense what so ever we even won 2 games. First post btw.
by ThankgodwehaveWhiteside! on Jan 6, 2012 2:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to StR, Coach Smart.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 7, 2012 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
DMC could learn a thing or two about how D12 and Shaq ran the floor in transition.
I heard Shaq talk last night in the postgame after the Lakers/Blazers game. He was talking about running straight down the middle of the floor and planting himself right in front of the hoop and posting up immediately. I think he could definitely take advantage of this tactic. He also talked about not always posting up on the block because it is easier for a defender to get position on you and push you out of the lane.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
If… If we could somehow… HARNESS this lightning… CHANNEL it… into the flux capacitor… it just might work.
by doriank on Jan 6, 2012 3:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Two Weeks Later ...
(I kid, I kid)
by wallywagon11 on Jan 6, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It could be worse
The Knicks are losing to the 0-6 Wizards
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
I need you guys input here..
So now that we have a new coach and due to Hayes injuries, would you like to see Hassan get some burn coz I think he needs to be playing to have development on his very raw potential. I was watching the game between Heat and Hawks, there is one guy on the Hawks roster that was given the playing time and he responded, I thin the name was Ivan Johnson if I’m not mistaken.
"I did not demand a Trade, the Trade Machine did" - Awesome
The problem for Hassan seems to be that he has no idea how to exist in a professional basketball game, and no desire to figure it out
He doesn’t box out, fouls at an unprecedented rate, stands under the basket, and has no offensive touch whatsoever. I don’t want to count the kid out but he hasn’t impressed on the off chance that he’s sharing the court with NBA players.
My 2 cents.
Seems a bit unfair.
…no desire to figure it out.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
Based on his history
it seems pretty fair
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 6, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
What history are you referring to?
He led NCAA in blocks one year in school.
He got ripped in the off season, probably lived in the weight room, leading up to his rookie year, then got injured.
Is he immature and lacking in self-confidence? Yes. But to say he as no desire to figure out is to basically assassinate the guy’s character as a person and professional.
Tell me how thats fair?
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I actually think he has too much self confidence, not lacking
There are more stories about him goofing around than working on improving his game. Come to think of it, there haven’t been any stories of him working on his game that I can think of. He basically got kicked of the BigHorns last time around for being a whiner and messing around. When the organization is asked questions about him they sound less and less excited every time and just skirt around really saying anything about him. Him getting ripped in the offseason is cool I guess, but considering what he needed to work on, that doesn’t seem like it was a priority. I’m not trying to “assassinate his character as a person and professional.” I actually think he would be fun to be around, and seems to be a decent person, but I don’t think his head is in it for the long haul. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Jan 6, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
My opinion is this
We need what he specializes in (defense, blocks) in the front court. But he needs those skills buffed up (clearly) so he isnt fouling 1000x per quarter. However, I watched a Reno Big Horns game tonight, and he got zero minutes. ZERO. So this won’t be happening anytime soon, if at all. It really blows, being what he could be capable of.
by ThankgodwehaveWhiteside! on Jan 7, 2012 1:49 AM PST up reply actions
Players earn their shot by what they do in practice
Once they get their shot, they earn more playing time by making the most of their opportunity. Apparently Whiteside has not been able to earn his shot in practice.
The Kings did not draft Whiteside and give him up to a four year deal not to play him. But the fact that he has bee unable to earn his shot to this point either speaks to him still be incredibly raw, or it sheds some light on why he fell to #33 in the draft. Certainly, given the Kings needs for interior defense, I would have to think that he would be playing if it were in any way, shape or form feasible.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I don't think you watched the game they played last night
The game on comcast was a replay. The Bighorns actually played the LA Defenders last night and Hassan got 29 minutes was 5 for 10 for 10pts with 9 rebounds 3 blocks and 2 steals.
Honeycutt played 20 minutes was 1 of 5 for 4pts. 2 rbs and 2 asts as the starting 2.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
My apologies HighTops
The game I watched was with the “Jams”. It appearantly was a repeat. And that’s not a bad looking set of numbers for Whiteside.
by ThankgodwehaveWhiteside! on Jan 7, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
In the limited time
I saw him play this year, his offensive footwork looked atrocious.
by luckthefakers on Jan 7, 2012 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Keith Smart will be a slam dunk.
"If you don't like me, then trade me." -Demarcus Cousins (The Heart of a Lion)
by MitchRich2 on Jan 6, 2012 6:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent info....agree with philosophy
We have no elite (top 10 in league) offensive players for 1/2 court offense…Evans willmhave more room to get to rim. Think it fits MT and Fredette for open threes. Bigs are the key
smart
They ran plays with Westphal
Never hit the open shot. Didn’t hit the open shot until the 2nd half this game.
Although I agree they needed a coach who was more instructive. Tell Tyreke to go play defense and he’s trying to strip the ball from Derrick Rose in open court. Needed a coach to specifically tell him how to defend Derrick Rose. Like back off, and try to get up on him after the Bulls are running their half court.
Last year's team figures well in this hypothesis, but...
Last year we had Dalembert, who could rebound and run.
Still, I have hope for this team. They’re young enough, they should run, it is one big advantage they have over the older teams.
Keith is Just Polishing
This teams Cajones for success.
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
by Slam_Dunk on Jan 6, 2012 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Aw man
My gif vanished T_T.
Claremont Mckenna College
Forbes #3 in the West, #12 in the Nation
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
by HarveySpecter on Jan 7, 2012 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Off topic
But has anyone looked at Spencer Hawes stats? Holy crap, I can’t believe how well he is doing so far this season. Apparently we didn’t wait long enough. Happy for him though, I do really like him
MY NAME'S AL HARRINGTON, I GET BUCKETS
Spencer's skill set was never in question it was his drive and work ethic
kudos to Coach Doug Collins for bringing out those talents and the same to Hawes for producing.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 6, 2012 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Still early, but he seems to be having a breakout year. Good for him.
Turns out coaching matters. Who’d ’uh thunk it?
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 6, 2012 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
He's playing on a Qualifying Offer so next season he's a FA
and is working this season for his first post rookie, big contract.
As to your question, there have always been some of us that thought he’d get better.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I figured he'd get better as well. Unfortunately he didn't while he was here.
But he certainly seems to have under a real coach. We should think about getting one of those real coach things. Might come in handy.
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 6, 2012 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed, of course we have to remember his mentor was Miller
so he started out with 2 strikes against him.
It’s still going to be interesting to see who has the better career, Spencer or Noah.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Is it just me...
or did anyone else notice that after all the dust settled, we have a record that isn’t terrible? I mean, sure it is a losing record, but not a hole that we can’t climb out of. Getting blown out by 19 points a game gave these losses a much more damning feeling than 3-5 does.
And now, with Smart trying to install a running game…
This season could get fun again in a hurry.
Always put your right shoe on first, because if you put your left shoe on first then your right shoe will be left...and you will have two left shoes.
I pointed this out last night and HighTops slapped me with reality
We have a lot of road games ahead, so we might have some trouble coming up. Maybe if we can keep playing at the same level, we can stay at the same pace or even improve our winning percentage a little, but it’s going to be tough until the All Star break.
Maybe another advantage of focusing on being a "running" team and relying more on fast break points instead of jumpshots
would be less disparity between performance at home and on the road. I have no knowledge to back that up, but it seems to me like teams that rely heavily on three-pointers/jumpshots probably have a harder time on the road than teams that get more points in the paint. It sure seemed to me like this team shot a damn lot of jumpers under PW (and missed a damn lot). I guess one flip-side to that would be free throws- assuming that “running” teams shoot more free throws than half-court teams, and that teams probably tend to have a lower free throw percentage on the road, that could offset the “fast break vs. jumpers on the road” hypothesis.
Hell, I don’t know. Maybe Ziller will do some research for me and figure it out. Or, we can just wait until this team has more games under it’s belt and take a look at how it’s all working or not working.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 7, 2012 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
I think Natt tried to make us a running team and we ended up turning over the ball too much
Actually we could be one of the better teams at scoring in the paint. We’re already 5th in attempts but 27th in FG%. Which is explainable by the fact that we’re DEAD LAST in assists at the rim at 36% while the league average is 52%.
Thornton and Tyreke are two of the top guards in the league in shots at the rim. Evans is 3rd and Marcus is 20th and they average 60% on 10 attempts per game. Unfortunately their the 2nd and 3rd members of the team in attempts behind DeMarcus. Our other 3 bigs take and make fewer shots combined at the rim than Tyreke. And, unless we start running plays to get Chuck and JJ easy shots at the basket, they are never going to be consistent scorers down low.
Back to running, we’re not bad when we run we just don’t finish the fast break as well as we could and don’t share enough on the break and the spacing is off quite often. And, I don’t think we will ever really be a good fast break team until we fix the lack of Def Rebs and Steals. Currently we are DEAD LAST is Def Reb Rate, and only average in steals. If your ever going to get easy baskets off fast breaks you need to dominate the Defensive Boards so you can gamble on allow someone to leak out, or you’ve got to steal the ball so no one is able to get back on defense.
My personal hope is that Smart meant that the team was going to stop standing around in the half court when he said they’d be a running team. Until then I think the change of not having the offense run thru a big at the high post, will leave someone faster than Hayes out top to get back and defend fast breaks.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
pass this on to the new coach...
I did C zone training in past years-Jordon is or was a best example. it would help these young players ten fold.
"Now what" question / Half court offense
Drop it to a 74-percent defensive rebound rate, and you add a very interesting second team from last season: the Sacramento Kings.
So right off the bat, Smart’s right, because this team has already played up-tempo while rebounding well on the defensive glass. The question is whether it can be successful and sustainable.
It’s good to see a stat that backs up this rebounding and running idea, but, in my humble opinion, the problem is when the opposing team stops the run, and the Kings have to transition into a half court offense and then the counters (“Run the break…now what…”).
I thinks it’s important that everyone gets
into position quickly and give the guards on option before running the old high pick and roll.And if/when they do run the old pick and roll/pop…I hope Smart can help the team execute this better: better seals, harder rolls, feeding the roller, getting to the line. And the three throw shooting the last couple of nights….Yay!
I'm not sure how this will affect the team's play
but I thought I should point out that Keith Smart is also the Voodoo villain from “James Bond: Live and Let Die”:
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 7, 2012 9:20 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hide this quick.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
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