Shaky Ankles: Breaking Down Jason Thompson Vs. Thunder
Great stat in here I'd missed: Kings are 6-1 with Evans-Thornton-Salmons-Thompson-Cousins as starters. The only loss is the 2-point defeat at Minnesota last week.
4 months ago
Tom Ziller
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What was my first clue this was going to be a delightful read?
Three of his first four shots of the game came at the rim, but were in different variations of speed and serenity,
Did he mean to use “intensity” instead of “serenity,” I wonder?
Michael Pina has an interesting writing style. Each possession has a little story to it with a beginning, middle, and end. There is nice use of description with a touch of drama (he fumbled away a slippery drop pass) to delight the reader with clever visual imagery.
JT has played well this season, no doubt through a lot of personal hard work. It is great to see his talents being rewarded as a starter. I prefer him to JJ. I agree with Pina, he should continue to get minutes over JJ.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 11, 2012 9:24 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe JT's ascribed to a new psychological philosophy that has helped many great thinkers before him
by SPTSJUNKIE on Feb 11, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Arms straight up!
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
by jjham15 on Feb 11, 2012 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
These are great!
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Now that is what I have talked about with JT’s potential i have seen from him. He really has been working on putting it down, and doing so without the dribble, and I think his game is taking a huge corner this year
Founder of Isaiah as Mogwai..
I wish we'd just extend him already.
I had high hopes for Hickson, but he’s been pretty bad. Thompson deserves starter minutes on this team, and he should have some reassurance from the franchise that he’s a part of our long-term plans.
With all this talk of our young players developing, seems like when one finally does we ignore it.
The thing about camping is... Its intense.
It's too late now.
Thompson will be a restricted free agent at the end of the season, but the deadline to extend him has passed. The Kings made a mistake here. They probably could have signed JT for around 4yr/$18-$20 mill. It will cost a lot more now.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
I'm not sure if it was a mistake or not
He has more trade value as a player that has no long term contract, and if the right offer came along (say that Memphis offered its #1 for him), I’d still consider dealing him.
Make no mistake, Thompson has been very good since being inserted into the starting lineup. But this team needs an NBA small forward, and Hayes and Thompson are kind of redundant (not in theirs skills but in their rightful spot in a rotation) as guys that should be your first big off the bench.
Worst case scenario is that Thompson continues to impress and you have to overpay a little to retain him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I wouldn't trade Thompson for a 20's pick.
You can’t replace him in that range. Also, small forward is the easiest position to fill in the NBA IMO. The Kings don’t even need a great one, they just need someone that can defend and play within himself. Salmons hasn’t worked out as planned, but there is no way the Maloofs buy him out anytime soon. He plays solid D and his offense is coming around slowly. He is the fifth option on this team now, so we shouldn’t read too much into his numbers going forward. The Kings need him to be solid on the corner three and they need him to find another gear when either Evans or Thornton are having a rough night.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
I agree
And if JT can stay at the level he is playing now, I do not think his minutes are so easily replaceable, whether by Chuck nor JJ. I would rather look for a SF, and keep a good, with the probability of it being very good, core of DMC/JT/Chuck.
by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
The JJ trade is looking horrible now.
Personally, I thought we got JJ because he was better than JT (Based on youtube atleast). Now, I don’t see anyway to look at this besides us wasting a future #1 and dumping Casspi (who looks a lot better than the fish and for less).
by SharkKings49 on Feb 11, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
The difference here
is that you are assigning a lot more to value to JT than I am. I am still not convinced that he is a starter for a good NBA team, unless you are excelling at at least three other positions.
And if the thought process is that the Kings will not address their situation at small forward due to their current investment, we’re wasting our time. We are perhaps the worst team in the NBA at the 3. We would have to improve greatly just to become considerably below average.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
It really depends on the team as far as being a starter.
I can see more than a few quality teams that Thompson would start for but without seeing him in those systems, you don’t know.
The Kings need to address the small forward position in the near future. I’m not going to say something silly like let’s hope Honeycutt can be that guy. It is a weakness. Unfortunately, the way the Kings are structured, Evans is going to get paid, Cousins is going to get paid, Thornton makes decent money. Is there ever going to be a moment where the Kings have an elite small forward? They are going to have to luck out in the draft with a high pick that pans out and is affordable until other contracts expire.
It’s not a pretty situation, but it’s the situation the Kings are in and I don’t see it getting a whole lot better without a little luck.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
Not sure they made a mistake
Given how he was playing at the time and his agent has no motivation to sign a deal at the time unless the Kings give a no-brainer offer.
But he will definitely cost more this summer.
They made a mistake....
because he could have been had for much less. The Kings had already limited his value on the open market by decreasing his minutes substantially last season.
There are a lot of players in the league that can do some of the things that Thompson can do. High motor, rebounding, solid all around game etc. I think fair comparisons to JT coming into this season were players like Jason Maxiel, Brandon Bass and maybe a poor mans Paul Milsap. The difference is, Thompson is 6’-11". So if he can grow into his body (which apparently he has), he is very valuable.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
I don't disagree with him being valuable now
My only qualm is with calling it a mistake. I like JT, but there wasn’t a ton of support on this board at the time for giving him an extension. He wasn’t playing very well.
And I don’t think his agent would jump at anything that wasn’t a no-brainer.
Definitely agree he has value going forward though. I’ve said for awhile I thought he could become a taller Kurt Thomas. Good defender, takes advantage of mismatches, good rebounder, hits the 15-17 footer.
I always hoped JT would be the guy to put next to DeMarcus.
They seem like a pretty potent combo, and with a few numbers to back my theory up now as well. I liked the Chuck Hayes signing, but to be honest we shouldn’t have spent money unless it was going to be a big upgrade at a position. Chuck brings some great things to the table, unfortunately not much has happened this season.
The thing about camping is... Its intense.
Let's give Chuck some time
He’s had the same handicap as all of our other players this season, plus has had to deal with a shoulder injury.
Really the Thunder game was the first I’ve seen from him where he looked comfortable on both sides of the ball and was hitting the shots he hit with the Rockets last year. And it’s understandable that adjusting to a shoulder brace would cause that.
Even if he’s just our backup PF/C, I don’t think 4 mil per season is an unreasonable amount for a 3rd big.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Feb 11, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Chuck is best off bench and isn’t overpaid there either
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Feb 11, 2012 10:45 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I thought he was getting MLE money, $21M over 4 years?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think it is 21.9 mill total
But I think he really is best as the first big off the bench, and I don’t think that is overpaying if he rebounds and plays great defense.
by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Chuck, JT, and DMC might be a nice rotation to keep around though
by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
remember, there are 96 minutes at the PF and C spots
by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Most of my annoyance is with JJ.
I understand that Chuck has had a hard time adjusting with injuries and lack of a training camp. I really hope he pans out though, I liked him with the Rockets.
The thing about camping is... Its intense.
JJ could be such a great player
really unfortunate it’s not really working out as planned here
by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Not to worry, we have Whiteside
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
by HighTops on Feb 11, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly,
I’d rather see Whiteside play over JJ
by SharkKings49 on Feb 11, 2012 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't mind seeing Whiteside a little here and there I suppose
but let’s ease up a little on JJ. He had a pretty good game against the Wolves this past week (although yes far from perfect).
by wallywagon11 on Feb 11, 2012 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
JJ is finding it tough to fit in on this Kings team
In the past he was either the main big, (last season when he was forced to play center due to injuries for Cleveland) or as the reciprient of teams having to choose between guarding him and doubling LeBron.
The Kings lack of a structured half-court offense and a play-making main guard, makes his inability to create his own shot stand out. But, defensively I can’t find an excuse for his mediocre rebounding and non-existent shot-blocking. You’d think someone with his supposed athletic ability would be better. Hayes is a much better rebounder and Donte and Garcia are much better shot blockers. Donte is about equal in defensive rebounds when you take into account that he’s played half JJ’s minutes and a large part of Donte’s minutes come while defending out near the 3pt line.
Whiteside is getting practice minutes based on this article on CowBell by JJHam, http://www.cowbellkingdom.com/2012/02/11/kings-bench-gets-extra-work-in-friday-practice/#more-10158
If Smart likes what he sees, we could get a look at Hassan very soon.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I think he has the tools
But if I recall correctly, his basketball IQ was always deemed as non-existent in Cleveland.
The thing about camping is... Its intense.
JT developing a left and right mini hook
seems to have made him at ease around the basket. Its made all the difference .
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Absolutely
He’s so much more patient. I’m now happy to see him get the ball in the low post. I think this is the year that JT becomes the player he’s been trying to become the past few years.
by rstewartwest on Feb 11, 2012 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Our frontcourt has played so well and is getting even better
If John Tyreke and Marcus get consistent we could start a march to .500
Can't wait for October
by KingsFanInPortland on Feb 11, 2012 10:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not only is Thompson more patient, he is more agressive.
That sounds strange, but Thompson is finishing at the rim with a variety of moves and one of those moves is to hammer the ball through with two hands in traffic. This is not the same player we saw in the previous three seasons. Thompson has found a balance between touch and power which is nothing short of amazing.
Thompson still brings the ball too low and gets it smacked away on occasion, but he has made massive improvements. He no longer fouls at an alarming rate. He no longer turns the ball over with crazy offensive charges.
What really excites me, is that Smart and Co. still haven’t been able to use two of Thompson’s best talents yet – his passing skills and his 18-foot jumper. Once the coaching staff is able to insert the entire offense, Thompson will be running a lot more high post plays as well as pick-and-roll sequences. He’s not Vlade Divac, but he can do a few of the things that Vlade did very well. Hopefully JT’s development will lead to massive development in Cousins. If the Kings can get these two young guys to be interchangeable at the high post and low block, the sky is the limits.
As for Hayes, he makes a nice solid rotational big. If the Kings happen to luck out in the draft and stumble upon someone amazing, Hayes is easily moveable or even a great fourth big.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
by jjham15 on Feb 11, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Loving JT's left hand
Until recently, I did not even know that he even possessed the appendage.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hopefully he lets Tyreke know.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2012 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He may have
Tyreke used his left on a lay-up from the left side during the Thunder game. It did go completely over to the other side of the rim, but fortunately one of the Kings bigs was there to rebound it for a easy put back.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
It makes me wonder how much progress JT could have made
without playing for PW for two years. I do not think our young players were well served by his style, or lack thereof. This might be a very different looking team at years end, and I am very excited to see DMC and JT play so well side by side. They compliment each other very well.
by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think this is on Westphal.
I watched JT at the Goon Squad classic and reported that he looked like a changed player. He has redefined his body from head to toe. He is more athletic and even he has said that he finally thinks he has grown into his size 20+ feet.
This is the age when bigs take a huge leap. We just have just never seen something like this in Sacramento. I love it. He is a great guy and he has worked very hard to be in this position.
Remember late last season that Westphal went to JT and he responded. That seemed to open up Thompson’s eyes as to what type of player he was going to be in the NBA and he worked hard to try and be that player. Not giving PW all the credit here, just saying that the 8 pt, 6 rb player we see today is twice the player that averaged 11-7 or 12-8 as a rookie and second year player. Thompson had a lot of growing to do and I hope the Kings are the team that get to take advantage of that growth.
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
Really agreee with you on this one
If his progress were really related to PW, then JT would have worked on his 3pt shooting so he could play the 3, instead of working on his left hand. ;)
Coming out of Rider delayed JT’s development, because he didn’t need those skills. He could get by with his size advantage. Now at the ripe old age of 25, with a new found body that allows him the leaping ability to kept him playing below the rim in the past. He is well on his way to be a solid player for many years. The level to which he can perfect those post skills and his long range jumper, will eventually determine if that career is as a starter or a bench player.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Well said
Completely agree.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
by CowbellKings on Feb 11, 2012 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Draft(offs)? Are we talking about draft(offs)?
We’re not officially in the lottery yet! 30-10 the rest of the way makes us 40-26! Playoffs baby! Playoffs? We talking about playoffs?
by Allbenji on Feb 11, 2012 12:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think in the last couple of games
We’ve seen more and more use of JT’s passing skills. There is a play the team has run a few times where they get the ball to JT in the mid post and Cousins comes close by and then begins a cut to the basket, and JT throws a nice little pass right to him for a dunk or a layup.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 11, 2012 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He does have decent passing skills
and I love how he and DMC seem to compliment each other. I hope Smart can get his JT’s confidence to the point where he is taking the 15-16 foot jumper, if he can have that and his more refined post moves, I think he is a solid starter.
by MichaelMack on Feb 11, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I fully support that starting five
and I’m also encouraged by our bench depth. I think that Chuckwagon is an ideal situational starter and late-game defensive stopper, as the need warrants.
JT has perhaps been our most improved player this season (with DMC giving him a solid run for that title), and I credit his conditioning and generally-positive attitude.
If Tyreke and Salmons can get their jump-shooting percentages up maybe 6-8 percentage points, I’m really excited about where this team is at RIGHT NOW. All of the other intangibles seem to be there, largely thanks for Coach Smart.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 11, 2012 10:56 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Tyreke's eFG% on jumpers is only 30%, and that gives him a little bonus for his 3 pointers
He really needs to bring his Jumper FG% up about 15%, and the only way he’ll be able to do that is if he starts hitting some short and mid range jumpers. and, stop falling away.
John could use that 8 or even 9% boast, but I’m not sure he’ll manage that in this shortened season. In years where he’s had his best numbers he took about 12 FGA’s per game and hit his 3’s at a high percentage. He’s only taking 8 FGA’s with the Kings and missing a lot of his 3’s. He’s going to have to attack the rim more and be selective on his 3’s.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Thank you for translating my quasi-qualitative analysis
Into quantitative goodness. You can always be counted on to bring the numbers to the table!
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 11, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
I'm a little ignorant about the situation...
So Kings missed their opportunity to sign an early extension with JT. Is there still time to extend him? Or is it one of those situations where teams can offer an amount on him and Kings have a certain amount of days to respond or they lose that player?
"You Are Free To Sever The Chains of Fate That Bind You..."
He will be a restricted FA this offseason
The time line to extend him has passed. Basically you’re right, teams will have a chance to sign him to an offer sheet this offseason, kings will have a chance to match that offer.
The deadline for offering an extention is Oct 31st
With the lockout, no one knew by then that he would make a huge jump in his productivity, so the Kings didn’t make the offer. Now, they have until the FA signing period next season (July 1st) to make him a contract offer of $4.1M for next season.
He can look to get a better offer, and if he does, the Kings have the right to match the offer. If he accepts the offer which is for one year, he becomes an unrestricted FA at the end of next year and can sign anywhere just like LeBron, and the Kings get nothing.
But, once he accepts the Qualifying Offer for next season, the Kings have the entire season to work out a new contract.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
JT has been great this year
But I suspect that teams are not planning their defense for him at all and he’s reaping the benefits.
I wonder if his productivity will change after he gets his contract…
by Sacramental on Feb 11, 2012 11:24 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I don't really see him as a guy that's going to quit once he gets paid.
Of course teams aren’t planning their defense around him, and as long as Tyreke and Cousins are on the team they probably never will. And it’s not like he’s being ignored and scoring 20 pts a game. But he’s doing the things he needs to do in rebounding, setting screens, finishing around the basket with both hands, playing defense, finding cutters, ext…
You can call it reaping the benefits, I call it emerging into a legitmate starting PF in the NBA.
by Crocoduck on Feb 11, 2012 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope you're right
I’d been crying for JT to be a starter ever since he posterized Kaman, so when JJ was getting the nod after Hayes went out I was baffled.
Right now, take the offer that was going to go to JJ and stick it on JT’s offer; he’s been that much better.
by Sacramental on Feb 11, 2012 12:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's been a while since I've jumped in a thread like this.
Thanks guys!
The world is not your Trade Machine.
-Ziller
@James_Ham
www.cowbellkingdom.com
James
Saw you on television the other night, you did great! Keep up the good work…
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
All I know is
I’ve been frustrated by every single player on this team at least once & most multiple times. JT I can’t remember really being frustrated once. That’s a good thing.
by Allbenji on Feb 11, 2012 2:28 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree that JT has been a more effective player. He is using his experience to his advantage
JT has not had great hands (now DMC, that dude has amazing hands) but he had a tendency to rush and fumble (his footwork didn’t help there). I am seeing JT anticipating the ball and positioning himself sooner and better. He is reading the game better. This has lead to him playing within the game rather than spending his time reacting and doing so poorly (particularly on defense but in the low post as well).
I felt at the Thunder game JT limited himself a few times by looking to pass too much rather than use that very dependable high post jumper that he has.
Some of the credit to JT’s improvement can also go to DMC. With DMC garnering so much attention this has opened up JT for a bit more freedom. I hope that as JT continues to improve and rely on his skills (like that mid range jump shot) that he will in turn help free up Cousins and a synergy will continue to blossom, and that benefits them both.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 12, 2012 12:24 AM PST reply actions
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