Excusing Mistakes
by Tom Ziller on Feb 21, 2012 8:01 AM PST
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PrintI like to think that fans of Sacramento Kings basketball have learned over the past <checks calendar> six years to excuse losses and losing. We learned long ago that Rebuilding has a best friend named Defeat, and that they hang out all of the fricking time. Most of us accepted in 2007 that the team faced a dark future and needed to get worse in order to get better. So we hung on as the expensive pieces were pawned for basically nothing -- Mike Bibby and Brad Miller literally got the team nothing in return -- and the first set of building blocks (Kevin Martin, Quincy Douby, Spencer Hawes) were cast aside for newer, 'better' ones. We survived 2008-09, somehow. We came to terms with a long twilight, and prayed hard for a forthcoming dawn.
But one thing that's proven more difficult is excusing mistakes. It popped up Sunday when Tyreke Evans made a bad foul that essentially cost the Kings the game against Cleveland. Evans rapped Kyrie Irving with Sacramento up one and just seconds left. Irving hit his free throws, and the Kings didn't get a shot off on the other end. It was a bad, bad play from Tyreke.
... and it's easy for the next statement to be that it was an "inexcusable" mistake. But that's not true. We can excuse it. We excuse the loss, right? This team isn't ready to win consistently on the road, not with a shallow roster, potentially mismatched parts and so much youth. Detroit and Cleveland are iffy teams, but this isn't the Wizards and Bobcats. These teams that are beating the Kings are beating good teams, too. We can rationalize the loss itself, because the Kings are not good, because winning on the road is difficult, because the team is young.
Don't those carry over to the individual mistake as well? Tyreke is young, relatively inexperienced and was on the road. He's won games before on pluck and instinct ... he lost this one on misguided instinct, over-eager pluck. He's not a stupid player because he made that mistake. Hell, on the very same night, an NBA All-Star -- Andre Iguodala -- did the same exact thing. fouling Kevin Love with Philadelphia up one and just seconds left. The Sixers are a winning team, and so Iguodala's mistake is not held in higher esteem as a character flaw and an irredeemable avatar for that which is wrong with him. The Kings suck, so Tyreke comes to embody that failure for having lost the game.
It's not fair to Tyreke. When Isaiah or DeMarcus or Jimmer makes a similar mistake -- and they will -- they will deserve the opportunity to have made a mistake and to have learned from it. You can't accept the loses without accepting the mistakes that create the losses. You can't spin the atoms without acknowledging the quarks. The mistakes, no matter how egregious, are a part of deal, so deal with them.
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Does this mean
That TZ is not on the “Trade Tyreke for Marco Belinelli and a bag of potato chips” bandwagon? Hmmm… time to rethink things…
The devil is dryhumping the details - Tom Ziller
Do you really think we could get Marco AND a bag of potato chips??
I mean New Orleans probably does the deal if we ask for some basic Lay’s potato chips. They’ll laugh at us if we get ambitious and ask for some hot Cheetos or Ruffles sour cream and chedder.
by StevenG on Feb 21, 2012 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
No, go for the good Kettle chips
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Feb 21, 2012 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
My mom always told me I was a mistake
and she learned to live with it for the most part
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Feb 21, 2012 8:15 AM PST reply actions 9 recs
Do you know who your father is?
"Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup on Cousins.
Look into your heart, you know this to be true
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I believe it's more the "Rebuilding" aspect that people are tired of.
Now, I believe it was a bad move by Tyreke, but things like that I’ve seen happen to any other NBA player. Shit happens.
When it comes to things like not developing a jumpshot, or the fade away he still hasn’t corrected, things like that get my goat.
I think the nail on the head in this article was that we traded away players for essentially nothing. Mike Bibby and Brad Miller for nothing, trading away Kevin Martin, who, for all his streaky shooting, is doing pretty damn well on the Rockets (and still probably has a higher FG% than anyone on the Kings at the moment), for “new and improved versions”.
The front office needs to learn that it’s not always about “new and improved”. Older and seasoned can do the trick very well. And we need some people to give this team a veteran presence.
You can’t spend so many years rebuilding. At the least, rebuilding and losing so badly, and so much. Because then contracts like Evans and DMC will expire, and for their talk of sticking with a team, there is no way they’ll stick around if given a lucrative offer from a championship caliber or playoff team.
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
Throw it around the back so it look fly when I pass//
Just to avoid the block go high off the glass//
I'm killing them out there they gon' have to bring caskets//
This all I hear after the baskets *swoosh*//
Bibby was a none option
He was going to be a 20 million dollar player …something like 13 in contract and 7 over cap. There was no choice. You don’t pay 20 million for the level player he was when he was traded
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Sure, one play in isolation
Is tough to judge a guy by. But looking at his body of work this season, are we happy with his decision making?
I'm happy
I think there’s improvement – and coming from the second youngest player on the roster, I can accept that – for now.
Ultimately, Tyreke’s ability to become an upper tier NBA player lies in his jump shot. Him making a dumb foul at the end of the game (and only seconds after our local hero DMC did the exact same thing), doesn’t change that IMO.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Ultimately, Tyreke’s ability to become an upper tier NBA player lies in his jump shot.
Not if Tyreke is expected to be the primary ballhandler/playmaker. Then his ability to become an upper-tier NBA player lies in his decision making.
The good news is that we’re going away from that model, it would seem. The bad news is that his jumpshot still sucks.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Disagree
It’s not an either/or thing – he’s not going to become strictly a jump shooter if he improves his outside shot. But his shot has to be good enough for defenders to respect it.
That’s not the same as taking away his responsibilities as a ballhandler/playmaker.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I'm not sure I follow what you disagree with.
Of course Tyreke is never going to become strictly a jump shooter. I never said he would, and it would be an incredible waste of his strengths.
But since the ball is in his hands a lot, his poor decision making is a concern. And if we’re going to have him play off the ball more, his lack of a jump shot is also a concern.
Ultimately, Tyreke has some work to do on a lot of aspects of his game in order to be an upper-tier NBA player.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
A lot of work to do.
He waits too long in the clock and even then often fails to try to penetrate, his strength, his over all pace tends to slow down to much when a game is tight and ball movement becomes almost non-existant.
And that jumpshot, oooh me oh my, that jump shot is all over the place.
Show some intensity late, the ‘lazy Tiger’ strategy isn’t fooling opponents and it’s dulling his own ability.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Tyreke’s eFG% is 42.6%. Completely unacceptable. I wish we had a young point guard who was a better shooter. Someone like John Wall (42.4%), or even trade for someone more reliable like Ramon Sessions (41.4%). Or hell, Stuckey tore us apart, I’d love to have someone so much better than Reke. Stuckey’s a far superior shooter(45.1%).
LPA, this snark is not directed at you specifically. Just in general. Snark aside, he needs to improve, but the issue is overblown considering how young he still is.
Never forget, I'm a complete idiot.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
by Exhibit G on Feb 21, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And exactly what did I blow out of proportion?
According to 82games.com, Evans takes 56% of his shots as jumpers, with an eFG% of .293 on those shots. I see some room for improvement there. He should either improve his ability to make that shot, or he should take fewer jumpers.
And I would say that about any player in the league.
Save your snark for someone spouting hyperbole. All I said was that there are a few areas where Evans needs to improve in order to be considered elite.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
LPA, this snark is not directed at you specifically.
Never forget, I'm a complete idiot.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
No, but it was in general.
You replied to me. Something I said must have set you off.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 22, 2012 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
Your comments
Reminded me of other, more over the top comments. Basically, I feel that we should have concerns about his shooting, but those concerns are overblown considering his age and the shooting of several similar players. We see the problems with Reke because we look so closely, while lamenting that we don’t have other players who actually have the same issues.
Never forget, I'm a complete idiot.
Follow me on Twitter
Author of Inside-Out Game
I haven't named another player I'd rather have.
I haven’t compared Tyreke to anyone but Tyreke.
But just to point out something that you brought up, I have the same statistic (eFG% on jumpers) for the three players you mentioned.
Wall takes 58% of his shots as jump shots, eFG% .328
Sessions takes 72% jumpers, but his eFG% is .348
Stuckey takes 60% jumpers, eFG% is .419.
So Tyreke takes fewer jumpers than those three, but his eFG% is much lower.
So it’s good Tyreke isn’t a chucker. But he still needs to work on his jump shot. Among other things.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 22, 2012 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
We all better hope he dosn't become strictly a jump shooter.
82games has his eFG% at .293 from jump-shots and .598 from close. I don’t understand why Smart even lets the guy shoot at all. I really wish there was a stat that showed his shooting percentage when he fades as oppose to shooting straight up.
I'd let him shoot more - as long as he's doing it with proper form
There’s only so much improvement he can make working on his shot in the gym, or in practice. He has to get better in game situations against NBA defenses.
The only way to really do that is to take the shots during the actual games. If he shoots 30% for a while but is doing it with proper form, I’m ok with that. At least we’re going to find out one way or another if it’s realistic to expect long-term improvement.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
When he's using proper form yes, but that certainly hasn't been consistent
Is he going to get better by taking less jumpers during the game?
If you’re just willing to permanently write off his ability to hit a jumper, you might as well go ahead and trade him.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I agree with the form thing but his shot with proper form are pretty rare these days.
I still think that he could improve his shot in practice though. What makes you think he wouldn’t be able to get better with a shooting coach in practice?
He could and would
But two things, 1 they don’t really get a chance to practice, let alone have enough time to have a shooting coach come out and 2, practice is not a game.
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to get better
But hitting them in the gym isn’t the same as hitting them in the game.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I agree with that.
Would you agree that, from what you have seen, he is taking more improper form jumpers than proper form jumpers?
Yes, from what I've seen
He has gone back to fading more often than not.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
definitely, he has reverted
at the start of the year I thought 50-60% of his jumpers were ok, now maybe 20-30%.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
His form is still messed up
He said to let him shoot more with proper form
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
I think most of us agree that
we would be fine with seeing Reke shooting as much as he does and even more if he had proper form. But that is not what is happening. To me it seems like he is regressing into taking almost exclusively fading shots, which he is terrible at. Maybe it is because the weird season and reduced practice time. I don’t think the solution is to let him take more jumpers.
I think it is the timing of his jump shots in regards to the shot clock
a good portion of his jumpers are not in the flow of the offense. He takes them if the shot clock is winding down, or with 15 seconds left and nobody is moving around to get open. He also doesn’t seem to have any confidence in his jumper either, which further lessens the chance for it to go in.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Guys like Rose and Durant are the exception not the rule
and I understand that but that’s all the more reason Reke needs to work on his mental toughness and seeing the game as a team effort. I truly think he could be a very good point guard someday IF he REALLY wanted to, or maybe he’ll finally develop a jumper and flourish at the two.
That would be a no. He has a ton of upside when it comes to his athletic ability, but
his decision making and basketball IQ are terrible.
"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" Some bad ass dude.
Well-written.
There is probably no one in the world who feels more terribly about the mistake than Tyreke.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
I don't know about that.
He pretty much brushed it off his post game comments.
What do you want him to say to the media?
He knows he fucked up.
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
He put it partly on the refs
I want him to own it like a man and a leader.
I'm sure he's seen the replay by now...
Post game he probably hadn’t
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not so sur he doesn't feel
the REFS fucked up.
It's just one mistake
and he has awesome talent but the focus and maturity is not there yet. I’m not convinced he felt different about things after seeing the replay.
I love how people try to figure out what Tyreke is thinking based on his interviews
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
by otis29 on Feb 21, 2012 8:54 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Agree. He is not the kind of player (or person for that matter) who is going to wear weakness on his sleeve.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
He's also the type of player who doesn't interview well
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
To quote Tyreke,
“Um, definitely”
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Feb 21, 2012 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I love how people throw out a snarky non-sequitir to try to argue a point.
I take it all back. I was just making wild guesses. Reke is a mature wise decision maker beyond his years.
if it is in response to a statement you made
then its probably not a non-sequitur
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
I'm not trying to "guess" what Tyreke is thinking.
He’s not owning up to his mistake. Period. To accuse me of “trying to guess what he’s thinking” has no relation to my statements.
Yeah, you didn't follow me
Tyreke’s not a great public speaker. When he’s interviewed, I get the impression he’s just trying to say whatever he needs to say to get it over with.
So trying to decipher anything from a Tyreke interview is a waste of time, IMO. But more power to you, if that’s your thing.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
More power to you
If twisting people’s arguments is your thing.
So he's owning up to his mistake in his head
He’s just not saying it because he’s not eloquent enough. Okey Doke.
No, you're right. He should be friggin' Martin Luther King in front of a microphone
I want him to own it like a man and a leader.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Admitting a mistake and being a team leader =
being Martin Luther King in front of a microphone? WTF????
You seem mad
I want him to own it like a man and a leader.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I feel like you are just trying to bait him
It’s not uncanny to expect Tyreke to admit his mistake. Hell, DMC does it all the time and he’s the one with the red flags!
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Tyreke and Cousins are two completely different people.
To expect one to behave like the other one suggests you haven’t noticed the vast differences in their personalities.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
For Reke to admit a mistake in response to a reporter's question
he has to have the same personality as Cousins? Wait you mean they don’t have the exact same personality? Damn I’m going to have to rethink this now.
You are suggesting that it wouldn't be uncanny for Tyreke to admit a mistake because Cousins does it all the time.
I mentioned in another place some of my thoughts about Tyreke’s personality and why he might not want to publicly admit an error.
Apart from that, HL mentioned above that Tyreke may not have seen the replay at the time the interview was given.
Adding, onto Otis’ comments, public speaking is not one of Tyreke’s strengths, while it is one of Cousin’s strengths.
Cousins is very articulate in his communication, while Tyreke has a difficult time clearly expressing his thoughts. I find him hard to understand and I think a lot of other people do to. Tyreke is no doubt well-aware that a lot of people don’t understand what he is saying so has learned to say little.
So, no it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t admit a mistake to the media.
Why is it so important to you that he does?
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
If you were to name all the great point guards, quarterbacks, etc.
who were unwilling to admit mistakes you would have a very short list. And maybe that points to his natural position of being a two or a three. It’s about responsibility, and accountability, setting an example for your team, not retreating to your “vulnerabilities.”
So this situation
Has convinced you that Tyreke avoids responsibility and is afraid to admit mistakes.
I think you’re seeing what you want to see.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Dude I'm trying to talk sports here
Not semantics.
You are making a sweeping statement based on one interview
I’m not sure how that’s arguing semantics.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
No YOU said I based it on one interview
Not me. I responded to Slam_Dunk’s question about why should I care if he admitted a mistake and I answered the question. Then you ascribed “sweeping generalizations” to my answer and proceeded to attack me for something you yourself brought into the conversation.
Then there are other instances where Tyreke has deflected blame
It has to be one or the other right?
If it’s easier, we can just chalk it up to your irrational dislike of Tyreke in general and call it a day. Will that work?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
No that won't work
Because I actually like the young man as a person.
I think there is something else here
that merits mention. If someone has already mentioned this then I apologize.
In the post game interview, Smart slips that the refs made a bad call. It is possible he could receive a fine for his statement.
I don’t know whether Tyreke got wind of his coach’s slip before he was interviewed, but if he did, he sure wouldn’t want to say something which runs counter to what his coach said to reporters.
Along a similar line, it is probably best to keep one’s mouth shut in anything remotely involving controversial calls by the refs. It is possible the team members have been warned about making any statements about these calls or the circumstance in which they were given.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
Slam_Dunk if I ever get into a P.R. kerfluffle
I would want to hire you immediately.
by blknblu on Feb 21, 2012 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for use of the word kerfluffle.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
He probably felt like he got ball
They don’t have the luxury of instant replay while they are on the basketball court
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
It doesn't matter if he got ball
It was a dumb play. That’s not what you want to do in that situation. He was caught on his heels and didn’t move his feet. To blame that on the refs is a cop-out
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would have called the foul
probably even if the ball had come out.
It was quite a reach.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
I'm just going to put this out there,
cause I don’t really know the answer.
Seems like the refs are becoming very careful about what they call and don’t call in the last two minutes of the game, as they know there is a good chance it may all be reviewed, especially it one team or the other complains. I’m just wondering whether this may have made the refs more likely to make the call in this situation.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
It was too big a reach in against the home team
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Right, which is why they called it.
I’m just wondering if it would have happened at another point in the game, whether it would have been a non-call.
"Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup on Cousins.
Maybe
But in my opinion it would have objectively been a bad no-call.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I forgot to say "you didn't follow me"
I thoght we were talking about sports. And team leadership in the NBA.
Yes, I can see how you would equate Tyreke feeling he didn't commit a foul at the end of a game
To a problem with his leadership.
Doesn’t surprise me a bit.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Yes - team leaders should pass the buck and never admit they made a mistake
Whether he feels it was a proper call or not, since it didn’t result in a steal, it was a mistake. I wish Reke as a team leader would have verbally expressed a regret for said mistake. Enable much?
So Reke does this all the time?
Yes – team leaders should pass the buck and never admit they made a mistake
And you are privy to the conversations Tyreke has in the locker room with his teammates and coaches?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I was under the impression this team was currently missing a leader
We have a few players who have showed signs that they want to be the leader of this team, but none have really taken the helm. Cousins so far is the front-runner it seems
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
Yeesh.
Yes. Cousins and IT at this point. I look forward to seeing what their leadership can bring to the team.
I think we sell Reke short
there have been numerous (more than 2) times where Reke has run up to DMC to get him to refocus because something has bothered him on the court…each time DMC calmed down and left actually smiling. Reke may not like to talk to us, but he seems eager to help DMC
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Sure is Spy vs Spy in here...
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, so he made a mistake
Eh, we wouldn’t be saying this if he picked his pocket like he did Gilbert a few years ago
by shadowchicken on Feb 21, 2012 8:20 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Yeppers.
He has tried the same exact thing before, and it worked. Why not try it again?
Hopefully we have all, including Tyreke, learned something. Let’s move on.
How about that Anthony Davis, y’all?
"DeMarcus pounds, like the hammer. Tyreke slashes, like the sickle.
For the good of the proletariat!" - tomroadrunner
Reaching across the body
is a different play altogether. And a much more foul-prone play.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Everyone makes mistakes....
Unfortuneately, most people remember the last play of a game more then any other play in the game. There were about 20 or 30 other little mistakes that happened in the game, by just about ever player on the team, that are what really cost us the game; Not the last play by Tyreke.
I disagree
with the last part.
Crunch time is when it all counts for real, Tyreke looked unready for the last play, got beat and reached in. How can you not be ready for the last play?
I’d sure like to see a lot more urgency in his body in those situations at least. The whole relaxed act if fine . .
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
I agree that Tyreke looked unready to defend Irving on that play
Instead of moving his feet to get in front of him, he got caught standing instead of being in an athletic position and reached. It was a bonehead mistake, and I could tell right after he did it that he felt like crap about it. He stood with both hands on the back of his head throughout both of Irving’s free throws, disgusted in himself for his own mental lapse.
That said, it was only one play, and other than that play, he was pretty good on defense, being assigned to guard anyone from Casspi to Irving to Gee to even Jamison.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
crunch time man, crunch time
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Crunch time, true, but..
Tyreke still has done a lot more good things in crunch time than bad things in his career here so far.
Everyone has just focused on his latest blunder, and taking it too far in thinking Tyreke has fallen off his rocker or something. (not excusing the play at all, just not making it more than it is)
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
by Wonderchild on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
I think Tyreke's criticism goes beyond that horrible foul on Irving.
We’ve been watching a young and very talented player who hasn’t improved his game like we hoped he would. I think a lot of us are wondering whether he’s ever going to get a consistent jumper, or drive left, or run an offense. We haven’t seen any signs of improvement over the last two years other than 30 second Youtube clips of him nailing unguarded jumpers during the off-season.
Look, I think Tyreke has the talent to be a very good SG but he needs to improve his own game in order to do that. His weaknesses are correctable things with hard work but it’s on him to do it. For all of DMCs criticism, he took it upon himself to get better and we’re watching him improve every game. Tyreke needs to do the same.
On a side note, it’s also on management to surround him with better players and help ease the load.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Feb 21, 2012 8:38 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Tyreke was acting on instict and
the whistle was blown. I’m more frusterated with Salmos missed wide open corner three and Thorton’s rushed 3 ft missed put back.
by 13uppercut on Feb 21, 2012 8:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I agree with you but after watching salmons miss wide open 3s in the corner (and everywhere else for that matter) all season,
I’ve learned to just expect it. He sucks and should learn to refrain himself from shooting.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Tyreke missed time his reach... It's worked for him in the past on arenas, this time he missed and got the foul. Yes it was dumb, but it wasn't this....
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 AM PST reply actions
So many funny things in that clip...this made me feel better.
The analyst’s comments, Adelman’s face, Brad Miller chillin…LOL
Must’ve been his haircut.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Feb 21, 2012 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
I like Ridnour making a shooting motion, then pointing to the three-point line.
by unfair weather on Feb 21, 2012 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
That is hilarious.
Brad Miller’s expression is priceless. Kind of like, “I’m not even mad.” Takes Webster a bit to figure out that he blew it. This was definitely much worse.
"Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup on Cousins.
You know who can make us feel better...Javale McGee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieymkwx3wRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27-jM2NvBIc&feature=related
“He has a thought process problem” LOL
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Feb 21, 2012 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Tyreke Evans
Get’s the criticism because he is one of the “corner stones” for this franchise and generally a smart player. The majority of Kings fans blame Tyreke because they were already on a 3 game losing streak with an opportunity to halt it against a iffy team in the Cavs. If this would have happen against an above average team i don’t think the backlash would be as much as it was.
I love a team that never quits
by Howard Nevens IV on Feb 21, 2012 8:49 AM PST reply actions
10 point on 17 shots against a team without a goaltender
(sigh)
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Great write up,tom
But we do suck no.matter what this team does but they are our kings and I hope to god they stay.8 days to count down.
by cowboyron96@yahoo.com on Feb 21, 2012 8:56 AM PST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
If
Reke messes up, and comes out and says, “I made a mistake and I will try by best to not do it again”, that’s great.
If he comes out and says, “Man, the refs blew that call, I didn’t do anything wrong” … then I’d shake my head. Everyone makes mistakes in their field. It was unfortunate, but it happened. Just learn from your mistake, Reke, and all will be fine.
formerly what_the_crap
One of the things I love about Tyreke, which sets him apart from most NBA players is his persona of toughness.
He showed it to us in his rookie year, especially in that amazing 35-point comeback game against Chicago. He shocked some of us with his brazen demeanor, yelling “Our House” to the opposing team on their own court and doing his hand-cupping cojone celebratory dance down their court. I knew then we had something different on our team. The guy balls, guts, and bravado. He is a consummate competitor who knows not to put any weakness on display.
I believe he knows he messed up on that play.
I can understand how you feel, Dub. You would like to hear it from him, but some people just aren’t good at apologizing, because they view it as a sign of weakness. I don’t think Tyreke wants to show his vulnerabilities to the world. I’m okay with that.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 21, 2012 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
To be honest
even if he doesn’t come out and say anything … I don’t care. As long as he doesn’t make a mistake like that again, that’s all i want.
formerly what_the_crap
That goes on to another problem, which LPA touches on below.
Tyreke doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. He does not seem to be the quick study that Demarcus is. I think that he does learn from his mistakes, or else how could he have achieved the skills, which he currently possesses.
To your point, Dub, I hope he doesn’t make the mistake again, either.
On DeMarcus Cousins - "Should he just be renamed Player of the Week?" HeuristicLineup
Remind me
of any time in recent history that he has won a game, like he did a few times the rookie year, and I will easily excuse one of these now and then.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
You know those last minute wins are generally an aberration right?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
And the last-minute losses?
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
are like a thorn on a rose!
wtf?
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
So a rose would equate
to being still in the arena in the last minute?
What is it about my logic that troubles you?
To me, there are two approaches in basketball: 1) See if the ball happens to bounce your way, or 2) go get the ball. 1) See if a win happens to fall into your lap or, 2) go get the win.
I appreciate that Tyreke went after the ball. But I can’t apologize for not seeing him go after the win and take over in the final minutes the way he suggested he would during the rookie campaign; the way the other guards in an earlier comparison have progressed and continued to do.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Just saying the Kings are 5-4 in games won/lost <=5
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
i will take a loss like that over one of the westphal blowouts anyday.
just play hard and continue to watch DMC morph into a monster.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Agree
I think Reke got caught flat footed when Irving made the hard cut. Think he thought he was going to his (Reke’s) left. He reached for the ball across the body, bad foul.
I swear it looked like he thought we had a foul to give.
Does Miami have anybody that’ll be hard to guard?
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Nah. And fortunately
also no one that will be gift-wrapped foul calls every time they need one.
This could turn into an opportunity for a lot of minutes for Hickson and Jimmer. Or…maybe one of those amazing games from out of nowhere, like OKC, but on the road…in South Beach.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Westphal also consistently got out coached in close games
So we lost those too.
How many times did we see our closing play written up as just a Tyreke 1 v 5?
Read: Toblerone Jones
Point taken.
I appreciate that you are looking at the bigger ‘Kings’ picture, while I may be looking at the bigger ‘Tyreke’ picture.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Should I wait for the rest of the question?
Because I’m not following.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Sorry. Your point, in my humble opinion,
is about last-second wins. Half-court heave wins. Tyus Edney 3-second mad dash wins. Those are an aberration.
Last-minute wins, maybe not so much.
In any event, final moment wins and losses are a product of something more than the very last play. So, I can certainly excuse a play such as ended the Cleveland game, but more so if I more often saw end-of-game positives that told me, ‘Meh. Aberration.’ I’m speaking to an overall void of apparent progress, urgency, and accountability that makes it not so easy for me to more easily accept last-moment mistakes and not expect last-moment heroics.
See…now my head hurts.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
This debate has gotten down to a lot of parsing
so its probably no longer worth the effort from either side, but I will just repeat here what I said above…the King’s are 5-4 in games = or < 5 points. So they have actually made less mistakes than things they have done right.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
I looked up "parsing." Thanks.
Yep, there was momentary parsing on the part of the party of the second part. That is to say, I parsed. Excuse me (while in we’re in the excusing mood).
Let’s play math. I question 5-4 in close games equals “they have actually made less mistakes than things they have done right.” But I’ll take it, nevertheless.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Agree with your close game point
for all I know they could have been up 20 with 3 minutes to go and won by 5 or less.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
I just think the "layup with no time on the clock to win the game"
Is something he did a few times in his rookie season, but is an aberration. Most games come down to one team or the other having a small lead then trying to nurse it.
There’s no reason for me to think that Tyreke is any more capable of making a difficult shot with the score tied and two seconds left as it is to him doing it at any other point in the game. And that’s been a struggle for him all season.
Ultimately, this team is going to need their complete core of players to execute in important moments down the stretch, not just Tyreke.
Tyreke made a boneheaded play at the end of the game, and it stands out. DMC made a similar boneheaded play only a few seconds before that, and only played 26 minutes due to foul trouble (with a few dumb fouls included). John Salmons missed a couple of wide open shots.
All of these things make a difference in winning or losing. Tyreke’s stands out because of the amount of time on the clock, but they all significantly contributed to the loss.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
by otis29 on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I follow.
And I think we are agreeing much more than otherwise.
Still, as you point out, end of game situations stand out. Tyreke’s end of game used to stand out differently. Maybe an aberration, but end of game positives led some of us to think maybe we had greatness among us. Now…I’m just wondering.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
Sure, I get that as well
I don’t think he breaks down on defense in crunch time very often, so that was frustrating. On offense though, he has the same issues at crunch time as he has the rest of the game – not being able to finish at the rim consistently or make a jump shot.
Adding a left hand would be huge for him. Obviously, we talk about his jumper ad nauseum. But I’m still optimistic that he can improve in both of those areas, become a more complete player and be a piece of the puzzle long term.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Last thought:
Really, if he could just be a threat to effectively dish on the drive, he and DMC would become literally unstoppable.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
I would like DMC to hold his screen until contact
before he rolls, he has a tendency to leave early or not at all. Then Reke would be a big plus if it ended up a play for him but would still need a ton of polish on the actual roll half of it.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Yep, needs some work
But It has been looking like an actual pick and roll lately, something we saw only once a game most of last year.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
We need to realize that even Kobe
only shoots 30 something percent on end of game winning shots.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
It's a team game, a team loss
If they take care of business on the last-minute opportunities they had to go up by two possessions and didn’t, and if they then make their free throws, we’re not having this conversation.
Good teams close out games and win close games. We’re not there yet.
"His D was a difference at the end."
by NewEraKings on Feb 21, 2012 9:18 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Players shouldn't be vilified for mistakes
We all make them. I think, however, we are sick of seeing so many mistakes from this team. Over and over they seem to find a way to lose. What’s disconcerting is that there is so little basketball common sense employed by the Kings (they are getting better but still…). You know, feed the hot player, run the offense properly, don’t leave opponents best three point shooter wide open game after game, set a screen that actually accomplishes something, play straight up, solid, fundamental defense for 2.9 seconds. No need to make any player into the great Satan for a single mistake but it is time to expect the team to keep their heads out of their collective asses for a whole game.
by rstewartwest on Feb 21, 2012 9:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Thank you. Amen.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
It was a stupid, high risk play
I don’t fault lack of experience as much as I do lack of awareness of time and situation. Tyreke was too casual and flat-footed with a quick driving threat in Irving in front of him. Instead of getting into low defensive stance, and moving his feet, and forcing Irving to make a winning play, he swiped at the ball while being out of position.
Stupid!!!
Tyreke needs to honor players ability more than just thinking he could get by on his physical skills, i.e. long arms, superior size and strength.
I did not chalk up this game losing play to a being a 21-year old. I chalk it up to lack of basketball IQ, and making a high risk play (steal attempt) versus the low risk play (fundamental defense). Tyreke has played enough basketball to know the difference.
Tyreke makes the same error in judgment when he goes for high risk, low reward lay-up attempt at an impossible angle with defenders waiting, versus finding open man or circling out.
Ultimately, its an excusable mistake because Tyreke does more positive things than negative, and you hope he learns from it, but its the type of mistake that Tyreke should be well past. A junior high school player makes that type of play, not former ROY.
Smart Era, y'all.
by bench_blob on Feb 21, 2012 9:50 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agree.
Two of my biggest concerns with Tyreke Evans are that he coasts a lot on defense, and that he doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes or work to improve the glaring weaknesses in his game.
I think he’s talented, I’m just not sure he’s driven.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
I believe he thinks he's lulling the other team in somehow
That just doesn’t work in crunch time, everyone is ready, he’s really just lulling himself.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Totally what I wanted to say.
I just couldn’t put it all together as eloquently as Bench.
So many players in the NBA cheat on defense by going for the steal, it’s maddening. In this particular instance, it was essentially the last play of the game and all the Kings needed to do was focus on playing defense, not taking unnecessary risks.
I always hear, “Don’t foul! Don’t foul!” when the game is close and the clock is almost out. Where was that here?
Nasty cheese grating accident as a boy..
Sound the trumpets, Raise the drawbridge, and drop the Oldsmobile
by Balky Needs on Feb 21, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
My problem with Tyreke on the last play is
that he wasn’t even in a defensive position. Can you imagine Kobe standing, basically, straight up and down with his feet together has he tried to defend a game winning drive.
Hell no, Kobe would be in a defensive crouch with his hand up with a desire to die first before giving up a game winner to a rookie.
I DON’T think Tyreke “doesn’t care”…..I just think he simply doesn’t care enough.
Norm
Don't know about the caring part
But you’re dead on regarding defensive basics/athletic stance, etc. We are tought that as a cardinal rule in jr. high. I see way, way too much of a disregard for basketball fundamentals from this Kings team. It gets them into trouble time and time again and it’s absolutely maddening.
by rstewartwest on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Let's stop settling people
We should expect more from our star…and if our star messes up then we should be able to critisize. I really don’t want to hear about him being the second youngest player on the roster or any other excuse. This is his third year in the league and we should be seeing considerable improvements.
I am not ok with mental mistakes at critical times. Missing the game winning shot, I get it. Not staying in front of your man and bailing out a rookie on a game winning shot is not something I am ok with.
You have to take the goat with the hero…the citisism with the praise. I agree that he needs to own up to his mistakes. If he wants to be the man and be the one we depend on in critical situations then he needs to man up when he comes up short. Owning up to your mistakes is what leaders do…it doesn’t take a very eloquent person to say, “Put that loss on my shoulders, I will not make that mistake next time.”
by khoganso on Feb 21, 2012 10:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Pretty tough to call him a star
if he is going to have to start being replaced on defensive in late game situations because he can’t even bother himself with getting into a defensive stance.
Norm
Don't you remember the marketing campaign sourounding Reke his rookie year?
We have been told that Reke is a star from day one. Mr. 20-5-5…we as fans ate it up and I defintely didn’t see him shy away from taking the spotlight and living in that moment.
I know by NBA standards he is not a “star” but in Sacramento he is one of our two stars and if he so easily embraces that roll when he is winning rookie of the year and hitting game winning shots, then he needs to own up to mistakes and lack of consistency. I also want to know what happened to that much improved jump shot that I heard about so much during the offseason.
I guess I was calling him a star because thats what we as fans have been told…but I agree with you completely.
Lots of long term damage
done to Tyreke with 2 years running amok under Westphal not being held accountable for anything. Not completely blaming Westphal because it seemed like the “Organization” from the top desperately needed Tyreke to be a star.
Norm
Agreed with everything
but your spelling of “citisism”.
Honestly, he needs to acknowledge it was stupid play and not blame the refs. Also, didn’t Smart say it was a bad call too? If so, that’s terrible. The coach needs to make his guys accountable.
I don't care if he acknowledges the mistake.
I just want him to stop making it.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm okay with Smart having his player's back
at least in front of the reporter’s microphone.
Not sure its good for the team
If I was the ref who made that call (an obvious foul) and then I hear a non-superstar and his coach bashing me for making the call, I don’t forget that. I think that sort of thing gets noticed by all NBA refs.
Yeah it's a fine line with the refs
but I think Smart was pretty diplomatic about it, I don’t think he was really “bashing the refs.” I know some of the refs are tools but I like that Smart had Reke’s back there.
What I didn't like about Smart's take
was that he wasn’t mad about the call per se, but was mad that it was on the last play, basically saying Tyreke should have been allowed to foul him, not that he didn’t foul him
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Detroit vs. Cleveland
I have more of a problem with Tyreke dribbling out most of the shot clock before jacking up a contested, fall-away 3 point attempt that missed badly in the final minutes of the Detroit game than one play that lasted 2.9 seconds in Cleveland. Tyreke had a full 24 seconds to make that bad decision in Detroit.
by #12Pick...who? on Feb 21, 2012 10:40 AM PST reply actions
interesting comparison
I get the feeling that no matter Reke’s flaws (jumpshot, decision making handling the ball, hero complex), I know that if we traded him or let him go after his rookie contract we would always see him as the one we should have stuck with longer. He is special a special talent on both sides of the ball.
Westphal was piss poor in the player development category (my opinion) and I’m 100% confident that we’ll see his good game to crappy game ratio get better and better over the course of the rest of this season.
Has Westphal developed even 1 player?
by HeuristicLineup on Feb 21, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Beno
I felt like he is the only one who really developed a better feel for the game and grew as a player under Westphal…haha how sad is that?!
The one I’m the most sour about is Donte for some reason. The rest of the guys who were under-developed under Westphal (Thompson, Cuz, Reke…) will resume progress as normal now and will see most of their potential realized with Smart. But Donte I feel was really screwed with and will likely never bounce back and become the player he should have been.
Tyreke is a talented kid.
No doubt about it. He has a lot of skill, and at times he can be an absolute monster on both ends of the court.
But nobody is doing him any favors by making excuses for his mistakes. “Look at all the other players who have done exactly the same thing” or “The refs made a bad call” are simply different ways of saying, “It’s ok, Tyreke. No matter what mistakes you make, it’s not your fault. You’re doing just fine.”
And it’s the same for any other player on this extremely young squad. They will not correct the mistakes they make unless those mistakes are pointed out and the players held accountable.
Otis is about to point out that I am not in the locker room after games and have no idea of what is said there. But with a young squad playing yet another throw-away season, a new coach trying to implement a system on the fly should be, during games, correcting those mistakes as they happen, first by yelling from the sidelines, or during a FT or time out, and then if the player makes the same mental mistake again, sit his butt down, either to punish or to clarify. Which I am not seeing happen.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 11:47 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
But wasn't the Westphal short hook one of the things Smart was trying to change?
Giving Cuz more wiggle room has been pretty effective.
Think he’s still in the trying to gain the player’s trust phase, so he can get them to completely buy into his philosophy.
We’ve seen some growth from Tyreke under Smart and we’ve seen some regression over the past few games. It’s a process.
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2012 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Good call
The short hook does nothing but destroy confidence. Also, Smart has been doing exacly what LPA mentions above regarding coaching on the fly during the game. He is constantly talking to his players and teaching during the game. It’s great to see.
by rstewartwest on Feb 21, 2012 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Reke has never had the short hook treatment from anyone
maybe he shoud get a taste.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Feb 21, 2012 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
"still in the trying to gain the player’s trust phase"
Maybe it will come, soon. Maybe Smart doesn’t agree with you. Maybe you’re right and he’s wrong.
But again, we have seen some improvement in Reke, we’ve also seen some regression recently. Will be interesting to see what Smart does going forward, and how it works.
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
What improvement have you seen?
It’s a serious question. What can you point to that he’s doing better now than he did in his rookie season?
I’d like to hear your perspective, because my own might be a little skewed.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2012 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
Under Smart he's seemed to be looking to pass much more
He’s not looking to be the main or only offensive option nearly as much as his first two seasons. That’s what I was getting at. I feel like he was making some good strides towards being a viable point guard. It hasn’t been consistent, but it’s been better than his first two seasons.
I do want to start seeing some payoff for the work he’s been rumored to have put in on his jumper over the off seasons. But sometimes that takes time.
Has he made a third year leap ala Rose or Westbrook? No, not at all and it’s a bit concerning. Is this as good as he’s ever going to get? I don’t think so.
I’m pleased with what Smart has been able to accomplish and appalled when I compare the progress of some of our players under Smart to the long term under Westphal.
Am looking forward to what next season will look like, with everyone putting in a summer of work, based on input from Smart and a full training camp. Especially Tyreke and DeMarcus.
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 22, 2012 1:18 AM PST up reply actions
The numbers reflect it as well
Assist % is up, turnover % and usage rate are down.
Still much to work on, but there’s been improvement.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Thanks for the reply
But I see those as a product of coaching, not actual improvements in what he is capable of doing.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 22, 2012 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
How does one not tie into the other?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
He hasn't developed a new skill
Or even improved an existing one.
He is being used differently by this coach. That’s why his usage rate is down but assist rate is up.
I’ll give you the turnovers, though. Evidently he has improved in not turning the ball over. Though still, that might just be because his usage is down.
Even though the voices aren't real, they have some pretty good ideas!
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 22, 2012 6:40 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think every Tyreke defender is making excuses for his mistakes
Maybe they just aren’t overreacting to them?
He’s a very young player being asked to play big minutes while both modifying his game and running the offense of a team with very little talent on it. I think at times this season he’s played great and horribly. I think he’s improved in decision making and running the offense for the most part, although he lapses back into some of the same issues we’ve seen in the past.
I don’t consider that I’m making excuses for him, moreso just keeping in mind the reality of the situation.
It’s fair to be critical of Tyreke’s play, and even the team’s handling of him. But it gets exasperating to see how many people are ready to trade him every time he has a poor run of play (not to say you’re doing that, but in general).
IMO, it’s worth staying patient and not freaking out every time he screws the pooch, because that is going to continue to happen from time to time. But the NBA is about talent – and in the long run I see Tyreke’s vast amount of talent, and if the team is patient, a one-two combo of Reke and DeMarcus that could be exceptional.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
by otis29 on Feb 21, 2012 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
At least for me
I don’t care if the "Tyreke defenders’ make excuses for him, but I don’t like that Tyreke is making excuses
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Is it really that big of a deal?
I don’t remember this being an issue with him in the past. Seems like it’s much ado about nothing.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
What I didn't like was the postgame interview
where Smart said it was a bad call on the foul. Even the announcers were wondering if Evans thought we had a foul to give it was such an obvious thing. Just say, “Hey it was a mistake and he’ll learn from it.”
As far as the short hook thing, PW’s problem wasn’t just a short hook. It was a short hook for some players and no accountability at all for others. And Evans was one of the players who seemed to be able to get away with anything. Smart has said that if players do certain things they go to the bench. That isn’t a bad thing if used right.
I’ve seen some changes that I account to this philosophy and it’s one of the tings I like about Smart. You have to have consistency. I can tell you if it was Jimmer that made that bonehead play, 90% of the people on STR would be calling to have him traded. So I hope Smart talked to him about it and I hope Evans learns from it.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Didn't he say that then quickly correct it to say it was a "bad defensive call"?
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Only because you get in trouble for criticizing the refs
He made it pretty clear that he didn’t like the call, and was fine with the play
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
I can tell you if it was Jimmer that made that bonehead play, 90% of the people on STR would be calling to have him traded.
I find this funny and sad, because, I’d still be here arguing overreaction.
It sucks to ride the patient/lowered expectation train while so many others fly up and down on the euphoria/despair roller coaster.
Jimmer sucks! IT! Trade Reke!
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
not a big deal
It’s not like he pulled a Martell Webster or called for a time out with none remaining — sorry, Webber! haha
by who betta than kanyon? on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 AM PST reply actions
Remember the last few games where they let Diogu actually play some minutes?
And then he dominated in those games? Have to admit, I was a little disappointed they didn’t go for a 1yr deal with him. But alas it seems he’s disappeared again so maybe it wasn’t a bad idea to let him go
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
I think the real lesson
is just how little Westphal taught his players.
It’s all WESTPHAL’S FAULT!!!
Yeah, Westpahl should have taught them don't foul with 0.4 second left
because that’s not something you learn in high school…
You didn't learn till high school?
Someone failed you in middle school…
Sanka....you dead? Ya Man
by prowseinthehouse on Feb 21, 2012 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't excuse it but I don't blow it out of proportion either
Veterans make these kind of isolated stupid mistakes too. Raheed Wallace probably cost the pistons game 5 of the 2005 finals and probably another championship with a similar mistake. So yeah, I can give Tyreke a pass on he foul. What I can’t give him a pass on is his overall inconsistent play, lack of any real improvement, and frequent low basketball IQ plays in general.
this is off the subject
I hate to say this, but we have to trade or bench Marcus T. We have to get bigger and longer. The DEF is horrible. Love Thomas at the PT. But Reke is too short to play SF. WE cannot keep this small line up. It will be proven again when Reke Guards LJ tonight or LJ guarding Reke. Too many 6’8+ SF’s in the league. Hate Reke at SF, he loses his size advantage. With that said Thomas has to stay in starting line up. Which means Donte must start at sf and reke moves to SG position. it has too happen. MT will have to accept the roll until he is traded. We can still play him 25+ mins and late in the 4th quarter were he is dangerous. if he begins to suck like he did in New Orleans once he was BENCHED, then a trade has to happen for a SF….I do not see this working any other way. I’m the guy who has been begging for Thomas to be put in the staring line up. Also the guy who hated losing Bur for Chuck.
PUHD!
ksh
Not buying that at all
If you start Thomas, Evans, and Greene, you have no one to stretch the floor. Thomas is your best 3pt shooter in that line-up and that isn’t saying much. If your point is that Evans can’t play SF because he can’t guard LBJ, than no one in the league is a small forward. Andre Iguodala who a lot of us would love to have at the small forward is the same height as Evans.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
It's not an unforgivable mistake
But it does seem to be an “inexcusable” one. If that make any sense, although that probably just means we have a different connotative definition of the term.
The loss is excusable, and forgettable, and I’ll forgive the mistakes that went into the loss. But Tyreke still has to be held accountable for what was a terrible mistake. That doesn’t me we trade him or throw him under a bus. But that does mean that we have to acknowledge it was a terrible play and we have to expect more. I’m sure Smart does, and I think the fans should to.
I was disappointed in Tyreke. I was disappointed in Reke because I know he can do better, and I expect him to do better. I’ll forgive him, but he has no excuse for that.
Read: Toblerone Jones
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