Kings 84, Timberwolves 86: Kings Dig a Deep Hole Early and Can't Get Out
by Aykis16 on Feb 7, 2012 8:29 PM PST
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PrintThere are many reasons Sacramento lost this game. Turnovers, bad calls, missed shots, terrible defense. But the biggest factor of all was yet another slow start to the game, as Minnesota jumped out to a 15 point lead to end the first quarter with the Kings only scoring 16 points. Sacramento would outscore Minnesota in each remaining quarter, but try as they might, they couldn't close it out. Donté Greene had an opportunity to win it with a three pointer at the buzzer, but it was just short, and thus the Kings three game winning streak was ended.
For the victorious Timberwolves, they needed someone to step up in the absence of Kevin Love. They found that person in Nikola Pekovic, who had a wonderful game on both ends of the court, scoring 23 points on 12 shots to go with 10 rebounds, 3 steals and 2 blocks. He also completely took DeMarcus Cousins out of the game, and while Cousins finished with another double-double at 10 points and 11 rebounds, he shot just 3-13 from the field. Rookie Derrick Williams started in Love's absence, and while he didn't have nearly the impact as Love would, he did have a big game, scoring 14 points, including a big three in the final minute. Williams also chipped in with 8 rebounds and 3 blocked shots.
Sacramento was led in scoring by Marcus Thornton with 22 points, 10 of which came in the 3rd quarter, but he missed a big free throw with 30 seconds left that would have made it a one point game. Thornton was the only one of the Kings "Big Three" to be on his game though. As mentioned above, DeMarcus had one of his worst nights in a long time, and Tyreke Evans was similarly awful. Tyreke ended with 11 points on 13 shots, with 3 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 turnovers. The turnovers don't tell the whole story with Tyreke however. Turnovers don't take into account the possessions where he is the only one to touch the ball for 10-15 seconds and then settles for a fadeaway jumper. Tyreke did not play well tonight.
Sacramento's bench had some good contributions tonight. J.J. Hickson was one of the few Kings in the first half that could get anything going and he finished with 8 points on 4-6 shooting to go with 11 rebounds and a block. Jimmer Fredette played sparingly in the first half, making some nice passes but being completely off on the couple of shots he took. He came back in the 4th quarter and looked like a different player. He started out by hitting three triples in a row, then found Donté Greene for a slam, and followed that up with a driving layup off a steal and another jumper on the next possession. Jimmer finished with 13 points (all in the 4th quarter), 3 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 17 minutes.
The first quarter that buried the Kings featured a lot of Ricky Rubio doing what he does best: finding the open man. Rubio ran the offense exceedingly well, and had 8 assists in the first quarter alone. In contrast, the Kings had 8 turnovers, mostly off of sloppy play and bad decisions. The spacing was absolutely terrible, and Sacramento telegraphed a lot of their passes. Rubio was a fiend in the passing lanes, coming up with 5 steals and giving Tyreke Evans a lot of problems on the defensive end. Ricky didn't shoot well, scoring just 6 points on 9 shots, but he did have 14 assists and 6 rebounds to go with the 5 steals.
Isaiah Thomas, coming off a big game in New Orleans, did a good job of getting the team into its offense, and finished with 4 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals. However he did not score, and went 0-5 from the field. It was made known before the game that he had a chip fracture on one of his knuckles on his shooting hand, so I don't know if that affected him at all.
Jason Thompson was a complete non-factor in the first half due to foul trouble, but played a good third quarter. He finished with 7 points, but just 3 rebounds, a disappointing game overall.
Let's deviate from statistics and talk about the officiating for a second. Yes, I realize it was bad and they missed several calls. The goaltend on Beasley, the multiple charges that knocked over DeMarcus but weren't called, and a few others. Regardless, the Kings should have won the game, and would have if they had played smarter, because some of the mistakes they made down the stretch were just flat out stupid or unforced.
Let's start with Chuck Hayes. I love the big guy, but the only thing he has proven to be good at so far is defense, rebounding, giving hard fouls and setting a mean screen. He's been awful on offense, and I hate it when he attempts to dribble drive and get something, because it usually misses. He also fumbled a very nice pass from Isaiah Thomas that should have been a layup, but ended up being a turnover. I'm not going to be too hard on Hayes, because his conditioning is clearly not there yet.
Donté Greene came in and played some very solid defense on Michael Beasley, but had a couple boneheaded plays down the stretch. The biggest was when he received the ball at the three point line from Jimmer and instead of kicking it back to Jimmer, the man who was on fire and has a reputation for hitting shots, he stepped in and took a long jumper himself, despite having a reputation of being a terribly inconsistent shooter.
DeMarcus Cousins also head a headscratcher down the stretch when he decided to intentionally foul Ricky Rubio with 33 seconds left and the Kings down two points. The foul sent Rubio to the line because the Kings were in the penalty, and Rubio is a good free throw shooter. Not sure I understood Cousins' logic there, and neither did Keith Smart. Fortunately Rubio missed one of two, keeping the Kings in the game.
The final possession was also unfortunate. The Kings got the stop on defense and Marcus Thornton rushed up the court, finally handing it off to DeMarcus. DeMarcus drove to the basket and made a nifty pass right to the wide open J.J. Hickson... who bobbled the pass. The ball went out to Greene for the missed game winner, but the game would have been tied had Hickson caught the ball cleanly as he had a clear layup or dunk.
It was good to see Sacramento fight back in this game and have a chance to win at the end. It was a welcome sight after seeing them give up early and often in other road games throughout the season. But it wasn't a complete game by any stretch of the imagination, and poor production from the two best players on the team (Evans and Cousins) is not going to win many games, even against a team missing their best player.
The Kings come back home on Thursday in what should be a great atmosphere as the arena will be decked in black in a probable sellout. The opponent will be exceedingly tough however, as the Thunder currently hold the NBA's best record at 19-5 and are 10-4 on the road. Sacramento will need to be on top of its game merely to be competitive.
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I'm not going to be hard on Donté for that last three
He really didn’t have much of a choice there, he had to shoot it. It was on line too, just short. Probably shouldn’t have shot the other three attempts though, considering his percentage this season and for his career.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
And I'm kind of glad the Kings lost
They didn’t deserve to win that one, need to learn they can’t keep getting off to bad starts and have to come out strong.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 7, 2012 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's an excellent point
As much as I loved the comeback against the Bucks earlier this year and the one against Hornets last night, I don’t want it to become a trend. The first and second quarters have given the Kings fits this year, hopefully they can find a way to remedy that. In the meantime, I have a suggestion: DO NOT START SALMONS!!!
I just get a frustrated with what the Kings have at the SF position for shooters
Who else would you want to shoot a 3 with the game on the line? Salmons? Garcia? Outlaw? Maybe Honeycutt?
It’s like picking between arsenic, cyanide, hemlock and ricin beans. Unfortunately, they are quick deaths to help prevent the agony. Forgive me, I am looking for a mercy death for the season then looking to be resurrected as the Kings pick up a starter on draft day.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Me too
I’d like a record that’s strong enough for the rest of the league to notice but bad enough to land Kidd-Gilchrist. Frankly, I think a first-round exit and JJ Hickson are much less valuable than a top-ten pick this summer.
This team isn't sniffing a first round exit
because the only first round they will have is just the start of a long night at the bar.
Yes, I have been singing that song for the last month and will continue for the rest of this season. I enjoy watching these guys get better every game but like I have said (and said and said and said) I put my faith in the ping pong ball gods with the odds in the Kings favor – don’t be not good enough to miss the playoffs and not lousy enough to get a good pick (or odds for a good pick)..
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
Nothing at all wrong with it
great look, no time, had to take it. Only problem is that it didn’t go in.
You got that up fast Akis,
the first qtr was so ugly, Ridenour looked like he was going to beat the Kings by himself. The Kings had runs in the 3 and 4th qtrs but could ever quite get it done. Jimmer had a huge game. He looked like a completely different player in the 2nd half compared to the fish out of water player he was in the 1st half. DMC gets props from me for not blowing up despite the way he was getting fouled in the paint throughout the game.
This was a game the Kings could have won despite their slow start if anybody had decided to take it seriously. You could chalk this loss up as a close loss to a better team on the road but I saw it and for the most part defined by lazy play on the King’s part and sloppy play on both team’s part. Forget it and on to the next one.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
by Bluejohn on Feb 7, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
omg i laughed so hard...
my coworker looked at me, like i was going to explode…
Einmal Kings-Fan, immer Kings-Fan.
by Schnuppermeister on Feb 8, 2012 4:52 AM PST up reply actions
Jimmer should have been in for the last shot.
Somebody would have been wide open.
I didn't mention it in my recap
But a bunch of credit to Barea for stepping up on D on Jimmer towards the end. He was a pest.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
He played good flopping defense
I can’t stand the guy. The moment he bodies up with a player they get called for an offensive foul because he’s small and knows the refs will call it. He has that fake head shot that he does all the time acting like he just got hit with an uppercut and the refs fall for it ALL THE TIME!!
But yes, he is a good body defender. I’d give him more props if it wasn’t for his over dramatic flopping (and yes, I love me some Vlade but since he was 7ft, his flopping was different).
I know we're gonna lose but I still think we're gonna win.
by LOUiECOG on Feb 7, 2012 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
wouldn't Vlade's flopping be worse if he was 7 feet?
plus don’t forget Hayes and Cousins
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
Everyone does the charge flop.
It’s a standard. Barea takes flopping to Manu’s level from three years ago.
I know we're gonna lose but I still think we're gonna win.
I understand it's a part of the game now
but how is it different when a 7 footer does it?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
DMC was flopping like a flounder tonight.
Of course, he was also getting abused by Pek, which made his pouty-face that much more . . . compelling?
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
Pek is going to be driving a lot of big men nuts in this league
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
I think, regardless of Pek's scoring potential
(which is huge), one of his biggest contributions will be in wearing down opponents’ centers. He’s a load no matter what’s going on. DMC is a beast, and he couldn’t cope with Pek. Couldn’t stop him from getting position, couldn’t get position on him. It was fun to see from a Wolves persPEKtive, but I imagine it was really aggravating from the Kings’ side.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
complete pain the ass
he is definitely one of those bull in the china shop “Best teammate ever folk hero” when he’s on your team but “Big thug punk” when an opponent.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
He got away with a lot tonight
Had the game been called evenly, you may not be singing the same tune.
by VenomySnicket on Feb 7, 2012 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
Did you catch Mark Jackson's post game comments about the officiating?
It was not angry as much as weary.
This may, or may not, have some influence on Thursday night’s contest.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
Every NBA game
contains more fouls than are called. The Kings got away with some fouls tonight, too (I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true). The game was called in a manner in line with how all NBA games are called. You see it as uneven, and that’s fine. The fouls called and free throw attempts weren’t that different between the two teams.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
This is kind of neither here nor there
The fouls called and free throw attempts weren’t that different between the two teams.
This right here is a huge reason why Jerry Sloan for years preached aggression aggression aggression. Over the course of a game, ref’s get concerned about perceived bias through things like free throw attempts and without even thinking about it they tend to officate that way. So, if you are a team that is incredibly aggressive early on and it’s a sport where so many calls are pure judgment calls, more likely than not you are going to get away with a lot more fouls in the end given the refs will likely subconsciously be trying to keep th foul totals as close to even as possible. This was actually all apart of Sloan’s strategy.
Just food for thought.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you,
and I was hoping that the Wolves’ strategy was going to be pound it inside early so the refs would get used to calling DMC for fouls, because Pek has a history of getting into foul trouble himself. The strategy just worked out for the Wolves.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
Couldn’t stop him from getting position, couldn’t get position on him.
This is because Pek constantly beat DMC up and down the court. On offense Cousins often trails, meaning his defender will be waiting for him. On Defense, Pek would beat him down and get early position (then dare the refs to call a 3 sec violation).
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
Jimmer should never have been taken out at the end of the game. Thomas neither. Simply no justification for taking out those who got the team back into the game. His weak explanation post game made it all the more offensive.
by ExPFCWintergreen on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
was it a defense/offense plan with a timeout?
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Regardless of your opinion, what was the "weak explanation" is what I was trying to figure out.
Just watched it and he specifically said it was a defense/offense plan where they might push it instead of calling a timeout if there is a mismatch. So … I dunno what to say.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
question
I did seem once Jimmer got rolling the T Wolves called a T and had someone in Jimmers jersey whenever he got anywhere near the ball. From that point the Kings and Jimmer struggled to adjust to that.
What's the question? Lol.
I think you are right. It’s the Peja treatment. Not necessarily a bad thing as it keeps that player from helping and playing team D. That’s also where we start giving Jimmer backscreens and hitting the heck out of his defender.
That will come in time. Was happy to see Jimmer play so well last night.
That one pass Donte should of made to Jimmer
woo, should of made the pass.
The nicest Lakers fan ever, Here we Stay! Er, I mean here you stay... I mean here Kings stay in Sacramento.
ya when he took the
Mid range jumper and had jimmer wide open in the corner? So f$&@ing annoying, why is dontes confidence so high?
by Since'89 on Feb 7, 2012 11:17 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I don't think that DMC's foul on Rubio was intentional
I really think he was trying to sneak in on him and it just failed miserably. Right after the foul, you could read his lips saying “I was going for the ball” to Tyreke. Either way, it was weird.
Knew it was going to be a tough game
So I can live with the loss. Loved seeing the guys fight to the finish. But man that fourth quarter was ugly. The one head-scratcher I had was didn’t we have a timeout at the end of the game? Was watching from a kind of bad connection, so not sure. But why not take the T.O. to call a set play?
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Sorry
Meant to say that first quarter was ugly
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
They had numbers for a moment
although yeah had time to still call a timeout regardless.
Having said that, it wasn’t like they got off an awful shot.
No
And with a more experienced team I’d say run it. But with a bunch of young guys, I’d rather see Smart setting something up. I know Donte had to take the shot. But the guys is shooting, what 17% or something from the three? I’d rather see Cousins shooting the three.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I finally got on the Game of Thrones bandwagon about a week ago
…And maaaaaan, I’m glad I finished the season before I saw this. It’s pretty much a solid fact that if Sean Bean is in chainmail and/or a fantasy setting, he’s going to die mercilessly.
If you want to see Sean Bean's history of death
and you don’t mind spoilers, watch this.
(I’m not trolling here, honest!)
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 9:32 PM PST up reply actions
I never knew about his history of dying so brutally in EVERYTHING
Haven’t seen him in a lot, but I did just watch Black Death, which is shown on this video.
He's one of the best at dying. It's crazy.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
I am really excited
to play the Wolves again. They are a lot better then people are giving them credit for. We are gonna battle them often in the regular season and in the future in the playoffs, should be a great rivalry soon enough
Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.
Who wears a Kings jersey and rhymes with "Nothing but net??"
Yep
Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a real playoff rivalry between these two teams down the road.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I'm not upset with Donte, there were plenty of other missed opportunities by others.
Putting themselves in a hole in the first quarter, having to work themselves back out gets old. The refs calls seemed to overly favor the Wolves, but the Kings had opportunities to win despite the calls. I’d be more upset if this game determined whether we made the playoffs.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
I'm shocked I have never noticed before
but on both the three he made and the one he missed, the ball did not rotate. I will watch this in the future to see if it was a fluke, but if not no wonder he is inconsistent
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Total aside
but look at the rotation of the ball out of Jimmer’s hands when he shoots. It’s not what you’d assume.
I'll take Isiah's skill at running the team offense over Reke
every time. How many times did he let the clock run down to take a contested fall away 3 pointer. His basketball IQ is weak.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
I agree with you.
Evans should play SF, or else come off the bench to replace IT / Fredette.
by ExPFCWintergreen on Feb 7, 2012 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
OK, SF or SG, provided he quits shooting fade-aways whether or not he needs to do so.
by ExPFCWintergreen on Feb 7, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
I can't begin to take this seriously
Sorry, but Evans is so far superior to Fredette or Thomas as a lead guard at this point that the mere comparison is laughable. Thomas is better at pushing the ball up court, but Evans does a much better job in the half court sets. And Fredette has his hands full worrying about himself at the moment – there is no way that he is ready to run this team.
Is Evans ultimately the lead guard for this team? I don’t know, though he’s looked a lot better under Smart. But on this team, with this roster, he is the lead guard, and it ain’t close.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 7, 2012 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree
I don’t think you can look strictly at the question “Who is our best lead guard?” and decide Tyreke should automatically be at the point guard. I mean, by that measure, Tyreke is our best PG, SG and SF.
To me it’s much more important to determine where Tyreke is best at and what’s the best combination of players. And it’s been abundantly clear to me over the past three years that Tyreke has done better when he’s not the primary playmaker than when he has to bring the ball up the floor. He was at his best, IMO, playing off of Beno, and even in the last couple of games he’s thrived when the ball was in IT’s and Cousin’s hands and he’s working off of an already-broken-down or elsewhere-focused defense.
This is borne out in the stats too. According to 82games.com:
Tyreke’s PER as a PG: 12.7
Tyreke’s PER as a SG: 19.7
And in the past few games, the major runs that brought the Kings back happened when IT and Jimmer were handling the point.
I would much rather see a starting lineup of Jimmer or IT and Evans/Salmons or Thornton/Evans, or at the very least that Tyreke plays as little PG as possible.
by nbrans on Feb 8, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Evans is still the one handling the ball the most in the halfcourt
Really doesn’t matter whether you call him PG or SG, since his role in the offense doesn’t change.
That’s why the 82 game numbers are misleading. Our offense didn’t run any differently, only the players around Evans.
If anything, this may imply that Evans has played better when Thronton hasn’t been in the lineup. But it’s not as if our offense shifted away from Evans when Thronton was hurt.
It also might simply reflect that our whole team was pretty putrid under PW and all the numbers started going up with that first Minnesota game.
Is he really the one handling the ball
I seem to see him bring the ball up slowly than pass it off, then have it swing around the arc. And, if it isn’t turned over or someone else take a contested shot, it ends up in his hands so he can go 1 on 4 as the clock expires.
The difference between IT, Jimmer and most other PG’s is they dribble in the paint looking to create a open shot or get a close in shot. Once Tyreke gets past the FT Line, he’s tucking the ball into his side and starts looking for a side of the basket that’s open for a layup.
In 30 mins, Tyreke had 4 assists and three were on passes out past the 3pt line and only one was in the paint. IT and Jimmer played 17 mins, and had 2 & 3 assists at the rim respectively. It Tyreke is going to get his assists from kickout, he might as well get them from the last 8 secs of the shot clock. That’s what we do at the end of quarters. We let the clock run down and Tyreke attacks and when he can’t get to the rim he kicks out.
Tyreke is great on the fast break as is Thornton, but neither should be the primary ball handler in any offense. Pek was 9 of 12 but 6 of those baskets where assisted by the guards. Once he got his position the ball got there before he got called for 3 secs. or he got the ball moving to the basket.
The problem with the Kings offense is the ball is forced into a player and then he has to make a play on his own. the good PG’s get the ball to the player on the move, or in position to score so that the defense doesn’t have time to get set or rotate.
In spite for some good assist numbers recently, Tyreke is producing fewer assists at the rim or in the paint than he ever has. We only make 1 out of 3 shots from beyond the arc, so if that’s where he’s going to try and get his assists forget about it. Any one on the floor can kick out once the ball gets down inside.
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by HighTops on Feb 8, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, the last two games have been poorer
But prior to that Evans was doing a better job of looking for the open man inside and out. This was actually a big part of the improvement for Evans. And it’s something that will have the opportunity to get better as his jumper improves and big men are forced to step out to stop him instead of sitting back and clogging the key.
In terms of where his assists are coming, during the ten game stretch I saw more diversity from where his passes were going. The problem is that aside from Evans’ own limitations as a shooter described above is that we have trouble finishing anywhere besides the three point line. Cousins is our only big who can hit the midranger with any consistency – and Evans had gotten assists giving the ball to him. Hayes can’t finish inside (or hasn’t this season). And Hickson has had trouble just catching passes recently. Hopefully that gets better.
I do agree with this point:
The difference between IT, Jimmer and most other PG’s is they dribble in the paint looking to create a open shot or get a close in shot.
But I would amend it slightly. Evans goes in with a full head of steam and always shoots or passes. Other PGs will dribble in and there isn’t a good seam to shoot or pass, they will continue dribbling or pull the ball back out. This can create mismatches and extra passing lanes. I have never seen Evans do this. Probably because he believes he can finish any shot inside, if there isn’t a lane he will always try to create one.
Agree that the inside out passinghas been better
But Tyreke is at his worst going at a set defense and trying to score one on five. When the defense has been broken down, either by a penetrating point guard or because a big is keying on stopping DMC from hitting a 15 footer, it opens up lanes for Tyreke to exploit.
Tyreke has also gotten a bit better at moving without the ball (he still has a long, long, long way to go there), and I’d much rather him trying to break down the defense when things are already a little disorderly than Tyreke setting other people up for a while and then deciding he hasn’t shot for a while and forcing a shot no matter what defense is in front of him.
I think this describes any NBA player
But Tyreke is at his worst going at a set defense and trying to score one on five.
Though I certainly agree with your points about where Evans needs to improve.
I’d much rather him trying to break down the defense when things are already a little disorderly than Tyreke setting other people up for a while and then deciding he hasn’t shot for a while and forcing a shot no matter what defense is in front of him.
He can break down the D, but he does need to improve his judgement. That is often true of young players. He has shown improved judgement, so I am hoping that Smart can continue to teach.
How does 82games determine when he is playing the 1 or 2?
Is Thomas the PG because he is shorter? Because I have not seen Evans not play lead guard since he has been here. Sure, there are times when he initiates and times that he does not, so is that the criteria? Does 82games keep similar stats for Nash and Kidd and CP3? I mean, even they don’t initiate 100% of the time. If Evans grabs a rebound and goes coast to coast, is he a center, a PG or a SG?
If you think that Thomas or Fredette can do a better job of running the halfcourt offense than Evans, more power to you. I sure have not seen it.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 8, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Watch again
When IT and Jimmer are in w/Tyreke they almost always bring the ball up the floor and initiate the offense and Tyreke plays off the ball. It’s obviously not 100%, but most of the time they
And yeah, I do actually think the offense flows better overall when Tyreke is off the ball. Again this is borne out in the numbers. According to 82games the Kings score 1.7 points per 48 more with Tyreke at SG than PG.
What I have seen is
IT (to a large extent) and Fredette (to less of an extent) pushing the ball up in transition, which I am 100% in favor of. I also see Fredette running the high pick and roll. But I still see Evans running the bulk of the halfcourt sets.
And I am not disagreeing that Evans could be more effective off the ball. I am saying that neither Thomas or Fredette have shown themselves as being anywhere near ready to run this team in the halfcourt set.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
You're making the same point here I was getting at in the above posts
Totally agree. The numbers on 82games are arbitrary in terms of position, because Evans role in the offense doesn’t change.
I disagree though
It does change who brings the ball up the floor and who initiates the offense. Tyreke’s usage numbers don’t change and he shoots as much no matter who brings the ball up, but my feeling is that the quality of Tyreke’s shots are better off the ball vs. bringing the ball up and initiating.
Half the time when Evans brings it up he dumps it off to someone else
to initiate the set.
Like Section said, I have no problem with Jimmer or IT in pushing the ball upcourt or bringing it up to initiate the set. But just don’t see it changing Evan’s role in the offense.
What?
No different than when Chris Paul or Dwayne Wade coming down court and then pass it to someone else to start a set play. That’s just basketball.
No team consistently isolates one person to drive into the teeth of the defense. That’s dumb basketball. Aka. the Paul Westphal offense :)
It sounds like your using the same defense for Tyreke that was used for keeping Westphal
Well, he’s not very good at running the team, but who can we use that would be better?
there comes a time where you need to change just because doing it the same way over and over and over again just doesn’t work. Tyreke even when he wasn’t healthy has been has run the bulk of the half court sets. Time for a change.
We have two young players that will be PG’s in this league. We have two guys starting that aren’t that good at running the offense. I just don’t see where giving Jimmer and IT more minutes is going to be all that much worse than what we’ve see from 40 minutes of Tyreke & Thornton.
I think Thornton who has a horrible assist rate needs IT, and Tyreke who has the worst outside jumper needs someone like Jimmer for the offense to fall back on in clutch time.
We gave Tyreke & Cuz major minutes in their rookie season, I don’t see why we shouldn’t do the same for Jimmer. He’s not going to lose so many games for us that we’ll lose the 8th playoff spot.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Big difference
We didn’t have the opportunity to see Smart run the team vs. Westphal. We’ve had the continued opportunity to see guys other than Evans run the offense in the halfcourt, and none of them have been nearly as good as Evans.
It’s as though people are closing their eyes and wishing ultra hard for Thomas or Fredette to morph into a point guard that is capable of running an NBA offense, but neither of them are there yet. None of them are within a mile of Evans, and that is the plain and simple truth.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And 1 -
Why is it pre-ordained that Fredette and Thomas will become NBA point guards, and why should they be handed the keys before they earn it? I like either/both of those guys sharing the backcourt duties with Evans, with all of them handling at times and playing off the ball at times. But having watched all but one game this year, I can’t recall watching either of the rookies and ever thinking that they were better point guards than Evans right now.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
See I feel the same about Evans, he hasn't played well enough to be our main guy
In fact if you look at Thornton’s sample of work at the end of last season, Marcus may deserve it more than Evans. Just because the owners favorite son has run things for 2 years doesn’t mean he’s the best man for the job. That’s an analogy and not a reference to Tyreke & the Maloofs, although that could be the case.
Yes, he’s talented and yes his number reflect that, but his numbers reflect that he’s a scorer and not necessarily the best leader. Tyreke got the job on day one, and given the same PT, I think Jimmer could do the job better. so, I guess we just have to disagree.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Seriously?
You’re intimating that Thumbs Thornton could do a better job of running the halfcourt sets? Finish this discussion on your own – I’m out.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Mr. Hayes
Let’s start with Chuck Hayes. I love the big guy, but the only thing he has proven to be good at so far is defense, rebounding, giving hard fouls and setting a mean screen. He’s been awful on offense, and I hate it when he attempts to dribble drive and get something, because it usually misses.
I was really pumped when we signed Hayes, but the more I watch him, the less enthused I am. Even before the shoulder injury he wasn’t playing to well. For a big man he is shooting a horrible 37% from the field. His defense has looked slightly above average, but nothing special. His conditioning looks pretty bad, but I don’t put that with the injury because it looked pretty bad before. I hope he improves, because right now he is a liability on offense. A lot of people on here say Jimmer doesn’t play as much because their are two parts of the game offense and defense, I think the same can be said for Hayes right now.
He is a career 57% shooter
So either he is still hurt or we are using him wrong.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I think his last year was a fluke.
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
Not just last year
Career 51% including this season. And his PER is the second lowest of his career. He will come around as he gets healthier and the team learns how to use him.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Hayes was not brought here to score
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
No problem ;)
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
Yep
Sorry missed the one. But my point is still valid. I’ll take a center shooting 51% any day of the week. Every day is even better.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I agree
Which is why I hope eventually he gets better this year, because right now his defense does not out weigh his offense in my mind.
Agree completely
It’s just tough to tell if he is still hurt or we just aren’t used to playing with him. Look how long it took to get Dally in the flow of the game. He missed most of the preseason with the heart thing. Then the shoulder injury. he is still really new to the team. But his career numbers give me confidence he will come around.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I agree and I'm not expecting him to make jump shots or anything
I do expect him to make lay ups and dunks and right now, he looks like he has a case of the Kwame Brown at the hoop
Where was he making his baskets?
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Exactly where you want your center taking them
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Then that explains his shooting percentage.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Yes and no
he takes the shots you want him to and he makes them. Which for this team is exactly what you need. man what I would pay to see Donte and JJ do the same thing. I could live happily if Donte never shot another three for the Kings.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
After tonight, Donte might agree with you.
JJ is a loose cannon. At least we know what we have with Chuck.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Yep
Actually kind of nice to have a center who has put up a total of 11 3’s in his career.
And missed them all.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
lol - he missed them all?
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
Career 57% on what a career 4 shots a game. Not many starters that aver 6ppg.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
There was a sequence
where Pekovic tried to back Hayes down in the post and he couldn’t do it. That never happens. Pek can move anyone—except, it seems, Chuck Hayes in that moment.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 7, 2012 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
Turnovers don’t take into account the possessions where he is the only one to touch the ball for 10-15 seconds and then settles for a fadeaway jumper.
I’ll remain one of Reke’s biggest defenders as long as he’s a King, but he didn’t just play bad tonight, he played selfish and bad. The coaching staff should compile replay footage and force these guys, especially our primary ball handlers, into watching concrete evidence of what iso basketball can do to a young team.
by Olde Greg on Feb 7, 2012 8:47 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
here here
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
by nothingbutnet on Feb 7, 2012 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I put on a post somewhere that Reke has All Star skills and a D League mind and I still think it's true
He makes some of the dumbest plays you will see anywhere. Cuz’s game if growing by leaps and bounds and Reke as yet to show he’s learned a thing since his rookie year.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
He's still only 22
Give him two more years and then if he does the same stupid stuff you might have a point. That saud there are plenty of guys that don’t get it until age 25 or later. In the days when kids wouldn’t leave school until 22 or 23 this wasn’t much of an issue. Now that kids leave at 18 and 18 years old we still want them to be as mature as the 23 year olds.
by Lotusprime on Feb 7, 2012 9:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
For example
Isiah thomas’ birthday was today he turned 23. Jimmer turns 23 on the 25th. Tyreke won’t be 23 until next season.
by Lotusprime on Feb 7, 2012 9:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
that is no excuse.
He has been in the NBA for more years than any of them.
by ExPFCWintergreen on Feb 7, 2012 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
He came into the league as an amazing rookie so there were a lot of high expectations
for him. His improvement has been at a more moderate rate than most expected. That said, he is beyond the D league mind, but still has a way to go to reach an all-star level. Give him time.
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
by Slam_Dunk on Feb 7, 2012 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Except Cousins made a supremely dumb play, in crunch time no less
Reke as yet to show he’s learned a thing since his rookie year.
I’m really not sure how you can state that. I think Reke’s improved plenty, especially since the arrival of Coach Smart. He’s not perfect, and he’s going to have clunkers – but one game doesn’t offset the strides he’s made in his game IMO.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
by otis29 on Feb 8, 2012 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Huh?
I disagree. The Wolves packed the paint against Reke and Cousins all night. Both took their shots but neither forced it in there killing the Kings chances to win this game.
I wasn't referring to bad shots in the paint
I was talking about the contested jumpshots and the bad three-point attempts.
Example? In the third quarter, when the game was starting to favor the Kings, Pek got a steal and a breakaway layup. Tyreke dribbled the ball up and immediately took a fadeaway three that resulted in a Rubio rebound and hail Mary pass to a cherry-picking Tpups player (can’t recall whom, I was burying my face in my palm by then).
I think we can all agree that when Reke isn’t hitting his jumpshots and the paint is being packed, he needs to look for the open man more often than go for the heroics.
The difference is
Thorton is by far more likely to make those shots. Reke’s game is driving into the paint and making a layup or passing it out to an open shooter. When he doesn’t do that and just keeps jacking up threes, it causes more problems than just a missed three.
I know we're gonna lose but I still think we're gonna win.
I don't see much of a difference
They were spit balling trying to figure out ways to create some offense out there. You have to give your best player some slack for creativity and give him a shot. They both missed their quick 3s, Smart called a timeout and the team moved on. They used the same exact strategy in the 4th Qtr with Jimmer.
I guess this can go on and on. After all success rate for an offensive position is around 50% in the NBA. One or two unfavorable results leaves plenty of room keep this bad basketball IQ narrative going.
for either Thornton and Tyreke, I don't think it is bad BBIQ, it is a lack of variety in their offensive repertoir thus far.
Thornton almost always does his “jab step, step back 3” move, and Tyreke has his “crossover right and get to the rim move”. When those moves work, they are very hard to beat, but on off-nights either when Thornton’s shot isn’t falling or when teams pack the paint on Tyreke, the offense gets stagnant.
As Smart’s offensive system becomes more imprinted in this team’s mind, these flaws will be less noticable and less predictable. Until then, there will be games like this, where Kings will struggle to score.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
I 100% agree with you
I love Evans and am one of his biggest advocates on this board, but the last two games have been a regression to me (compared to the previous 10).
I really liked the way he played the first quarter of the Hornets game (yes, we were getting blown out, but he was distributing) and the third quarter of the Wolves game (he only got one assist, but drove twice and dished to guys who missed layups).
Other than that, as we’ve fallen behind he has become very single-minded. The team has gotten better at not panicking when the other team makes a run. However, when that happens Evans suddenly goes from emerging play-maker into single-minded scorer and it’s bad for the team, especially on those nights his shot is off.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the big comebacks in both of the last two games have taken place with Evans on the bench. This does not mean I think we are better off without Evans or he is a bad player. He’s a jumper and a little more insight away from being a star. But the last two games have been disappointing after all of the growth we saw in the previous 10.
Fits and starts, a normal part of the learning process
I love Tyreke’s game, and can only echo your (and others’) comments that the great players are multidimensional: as scorers, facilitators, and even as decoys (remember how MJ passed off to Steve Kerr for the winning shot in the 1997 finals?).
Tyreke has never needed to be a star passer until the NBA, and I think PW hurt more than helped in this regard — Coach Smart seems to have him going the right direction, and with a few more years of NBA experience, I wouldn’t be surprised if Tyreke becomes a 20+pts-10assists-5rebounds machine on a nightly basis. Also, if we can place better shooters around him, everything should open up that much more.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
Largely agree
And I am fine with him being a scorer first. Friends recently asked me if I would rather have Rubio or Evans and I answered Evans. I really don’t know which one of them will wind up being the better player, but I want a championship. And most championships are won by star players who are scorers first, but who can also distribute.
Dirk
Bryant
Pierce
Wade
Billups
Duncan/Ginobili
Olajuwon
Jordan
Isaiah Thomas
You have to go back to Magic to find a pure PG who won a ring. And even Magic was a heck of a scorer for a PPG. In the playoffs, at the end of games, you need someone who can get that final bucket or draw so much attention to stop him that he can set someone else up with a wide open shot.
Evans can be that type of player, but he needs to keep growing in his ability to find his teammates and not panic when the game gets rough.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Feb 8, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree, but he doesn't have to be the primary ball handler to do that.
There is no reason why we can’t have a primary ball handler that probes the paint looking to create and then finding Tyreke as the last option. Or, as the first option, with Tyreke attacking the rim without the ball.
As long as we try to create open shots first, I have no problem with Tyreke trying to do it on his only as the shot clock expires.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Fully agree with this
As long as we try to create open shots first, I have no problem with Tyreke trying to do it on his only as the shot clock expires.
When our offense has been at it’s best this season we have ball movement & Evans is picking his spots well. At it’s worst, Evans is a single minded scorer, who can’t hit a jump shot and our O becomes very predictable.
Even Wade, Bryant, Rose, etc. don’t have the ball and create single-handedly on every possession. That’s a very inefficient offense.
and predictable and easily defensable
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Rookies are having a knack for clutch 4th quarter performances
IT going 0-5 is looks bad but he had to lob up a couple prayers to beat the clock, but he did everything else well, I imagine having a hurt shooting hand had a lot to do with his shot.
Jimmer came up big which is good to see and he did a nice job getting a couple steals, too.
I really think those two are going to be awesome next year
Can’t wait to see them in Vegas lighting up the other rooks.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
I'm not worried about Isiah at all.
Tough games happen. He’s tough as nails and it would not surprise me to see him play real well against OKC.
I hope whoever selects the pool for the rookie-sophomore game this year puts Isiah in the pool b/c he deserves it. Isiah has been one of the best rookies this year, IMO.
Its a travesty to me that Jeremy Lin plays a few good games, is an Asian kid in NYC and becomes a sensation. Nothing against Lin. Isiah been doing it all year, he’s the 60th pick and I don’t hear one peep about him. It’s a travesty.
Children, before you go to sleep check under your bed for the BOOGIE MAN!!
Definitely happy with Jimmer tonight
This was a performance that showed why our brass had so much, er, faith in him. He deserved more minutes tonight.
Yea, I was disappointed in Smart for taking him out and inserting Evans.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
More succinctly, this is how I feel about this game
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 7, 2012 8:59 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
They are
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Feb 7, 2012 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
It's a mad, mad, mad, mad, world?
Rooney, Ceaser, Hackett, Mermann , Bacfkus(?) and Johnny Winters? SB you look so young and what are you doing with young miss LPA if you are so old?
I so surprised you know this film, i am jibberish-ing (not Jimmerish-ing)
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
It's the manscara
Takes twenty years off my age.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
you and Rubio share cosmetologists?
Who knew?
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
It's why LPA wanted us to draft Rubio so bad
He looks just like me
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
In a
really, really, really, really, really, really older brother kind of way.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Not Jim Backus, that's Milton Berle, I remember seeing this movie when it came out.
(Now I’m dating myself)
Purveyor of Bull Plop
This team frustrates the hell out of me
You see so much potential then they lay a freakin egg. I wouldn’t have had a problem with a close loss as they were in the game from start to finish & the best players played well.
I have defended Tyreke all season on this site with a passion. I’m kinda tired of it to be honest. I just don’t understand what he’s doing sometimes.
He’s my favorite King & I will continue to stand by him but he has to be more consistent. Plain & simple. It’s not just Tyreke though. It’s Reke, MT23, & Cuz to a lesser extent this season. We need all 3 to play well if we we want to win on most nights.
by Allbenji on Feb 7, 2012 9:02 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Kings most glaring weakness
Remains the SF position. And its getting me really frustrated. When Salmons plays well the kings are a completely better team. There is no one to back him up either. Can’t wait till the trade talks start to heat up. Batum and his 9 threes the other night would look sexy on this team.
I can count all the good games Salmons had this season on one hand a still have a couple of digits left.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
We got nada help from Salmons tonight, if he could have chipped in 2 or 3 more baskets,
the Kings win tonight. Although he didn’t shoot too many times, still no help from our wing. The mistakes were frustrating tonight, this game was winnable, darn.
He couldn't guard Beasley
Greene did a decent job on him.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
nada and bad shots
think when you are shooting line drive 3s that hit the front rim, its time to look for a better shot or move the ball. Think in the third the Kings had back to back possessions and thats what the kinds got on offense
Good night gang
Gotta get my 5 hours of sleep before I jump on a plane back to SLC.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
Good night SB
Asked if the Kings had any intention of trading Cousins, basketball president Geoff Petrie said, "No."
That was a mean pick by Hayes
I wish our other bigs would learn how to pick like that.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
by Aykis16 on Feb 7, 2012 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I was surprised
The refs didn’t go for JJ’s head fake and call an offensive foul. They fall for it all the time.
I know we're gonna lose but I still think we're gonna win.
Someday this is what Jimmer's game will look like.
by DiegoKing on Feb 7, 2012 9:19 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
I feel like it's always Hickson that has the stone hands and looks suprised when someone passes him the ball.
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
Throw it around the back so it look fly when I pass//
Just to avoid the block go high off the glass//
I'm killing them out there they gon' have to bring caskets//
This all I hear after the baskets *swoosh*//
by HarveySpecter on Feb 7, 2012 9:27 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Great recap
Unfortunately, I think tonight is my last game thread here at StR but on the plus side these recaps by Aykis have been great this year and look forward to them every time.
Not that I post that much to begin with
but game threads have never been my thing. I like to focus on the game and the people I’m physically watching it with. Welcome to the club!
Well, we lost Pookey and miss him and now
we will miss you also. You two provided a lot of intellect and BB knowledge. Good luck in your future endeavors. Hope you change you mind.
I think wally is just bowing out of the game threads
Not StR as a whole.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I can understand and know what he is thinking. Forum posts have changed
this season . Not all, but some.
no no no
just the game threads is all
Sorry for the confusion.
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Oh sure you leave right when i start getting into them..I know its all mine and my Sake’s fault…
Founder of Isaiah as Mogwai..
hey now I know what type of Sake I need to try
hardly have had any other than the occasional Sake bomb in college but that doesn’t count
Can't blame you one bit. Love posting with other fans.
But those threads can be quite unbearable the second things aren’t going perfectly.
by SPTSJUNKIE on Feb 8, 2012 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Quality of the comments has taken a severe dive. I think I'm with you
Gonna stick to twitter.
by VenomySnicket on Feb 7, 2012 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
There are a lot more folks that participate in the game threads now with a pre-cooked agenda
Jimmer lovers/haters, Tyreke lovers/haters, and people being generally combative just to be generally combative. Comes with site growth, I suppose, but it’s frustrating to those that participated when the threads were more congenial, random, and funny.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Not to mention the overtly violent and sexual comments that have very little to do with the game.
CowboyRon was funny, but now there are 50 of him, and frankly, it’s trite.
by VenomySnicket on Feb 7, 2012 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Although I did enjoy the little argumetn SavageBeast and I had over Jimmer's contributions in the first half.
I ended up with a bit of egg on my face, but then again, I was lamenting everyone, not just Jimmer.
by VenomySnicket on Feb 7, 2012 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
This makes me sad
It is fun to watch bball, it is more fun to watch it with friends.Even internet friends.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
keyboards make me cry
But dub dub one one has a nice internet voice and him not sharing it on the game threads just makes the threads a little less fun.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
"nice internet voice"
never heard it put that way before. I like it.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
Wow is this why there were nearly 1800 comments tonight?
I had thought you all went into DMC beast-comment mode…I haven’t really had time to read the game threads recently. Tragic.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
And I was mostly arguing
Because it was you. And you are right way too often. :)
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Feb 7, 2012 11:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Is there any way to filter certain users on your particular thread?
That would be a creative and useful approach to preserving the quality of the experience.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not a big fan of totalitarianism, but maybe the banhammer has to come on a little bit stronger?
I trust the judgement of the mods, but would support any means necessary to preserve the site. Wally is right that it seems generally limited to the game threads, but I’d hate to see it start spreading around like a cancer.
You guys [the folks who run the show around here] are awesome.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
The public is, and will always be
The public. For better or worse.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
Section, having just quickly read through tonights game threads
There seem to be only about 3 people who repeatedly made overly negative (also profane, inappropriate, choose your adjective) comments, with another 2 borderline. If a pointed request for a bit more decorum fails, perhaps a threat will help them modify their commenting? If it’s damaging the quality of the site, I think action is warranted. The public is the public, but I think you can draw the line if they shit on your lawn.
時國王驕奢，不遵典憲。 《後漢書》
Had the same issue on the 49ers blog
Started geting a lot of people who never comment but would show to the game thread and fill it up with negative, agenda driven comments. It scared most of the regulars away but also once the regulars stopped showing up the game thread trolls also stopped coming by.
Damn...
Picked a bad time to join STR, it seems?
"Crescit cum comercio civicas"
Throw it around the back so it look fly when I pass//
Just to avoid the block go high off the glass//
I'm killing them out there they gon' have to bring caskets//
This all I hear after the baskets *swoosh*//
by HarveySpecter on Feb 8, 2012 12:18 AM PST up reply actions
It seems to be mostly concentrated to the game threads,
though there is certainly “leakage” into the other threads. And given your contributions, I would say that you couldn’t have picked a better time to join. You’re a quality poster (in my humble opinion) and your comments are a welcome addition.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 8, 2012 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't always agree with you Harvey
But I think your opinions are well thought out, and I look forward to reading what you have to say.
I'm feeling the same way
Never Turn Back - Crush 40
Being a Fan: 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name!
dumbest team in the NBA?
these guys have athletic talent coming out of their ears, but they are seriously deficient in the basketball IQ department. they run exactly two plays, a clearout and a half-assed pick and roll. the rest of the time they’re getting by on hops, speed, strength, and DMC’s weird Jedi abilities. the fact that they win as many games as they do is a testament to their physical gifts. it’s a bummer that the only guys who know how to play a team game, jimmer and hayes, have trouble keeping up athletically.
I love the Kings, but most of the time watching them is like watching five guys who don’t know each other playing a pickup game. I think Keith Smart is an excellent coach, and he’s succeeding in teaching them something… the team is finally moving in the right direction, but he’s having to build from literally zero, or possibly below ground level. Not easy to do in a lockout-shortened season with no practices or training camp.
Westphal has much to answer for. he’s the NBA equivalent of a third-world kleptocrat.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 7, 2012 10:11 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
First comment ever and you break out kleptocrat?
made me look it up, back in my day we just called them rat bastards.
Welcome.
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
by ElRonToro on Feb 7, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate the sentiment of your post
But I struggle with the notion that a player may only possess physical talent or mental talent, and not both. You may not be saying that exactly, but the post seems to hint at that.
I think that DMC has an underrated basketball IQ and is tremendously team-oriented. With Tyreke, I might agree with you…but he is fairly young yet AND was basically told by the franchise [my belief] that he needed to “be the man” pretty much as soon as K-Mart departed. So, it seems to me that he is still adjusting his game and mentality out there.
By the way…your screen name is fantastic :-)
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
thanks
I’m stuck here for a while in grad school, but I don’t have to be thrilled about it :)
You may be right about DMC in that he has a really high skill level already, as well as a sixth sense for the ball you simply can’t teach. And he’s most definitely a team player. But man, he makes a lot of stupid, mostly emotion-driven mistakes, and he’s rife with bad habits. That pointless foul on Rubio near half court made me yell “DAMMIT NO!” at the TV and throw up my hands… happens about seven or eight times a Kings game, and usually half are due to DMC. He is often befuddled by rival centers who take it to him physically, like Dalembert and Pekovic.
Tyreke I worry about, though. I agree that he got a headful of bullcrap about how he was the next Kobe Bryant from Westphal and the Maloofs as soon as he joined the team, and winning ROY sure didn’t help. The guy’s a physical marvel and he has amazing reflexes, but his technique sucks. He tries to do everything the hardest way possible, and he doesn’t really seem to make the game easier for his teammates, even when he’s in “assist mode.”
Case in point are the three-on-two fast breaks the Kings frequently earn. If Tyreke has the ball, there’s NO WAY he’s passing it for an easier two. He tries for the three-point play every single time and frequently ends up with one or none. I think the mathematical expectation when he’s in charge of a break is around 1.3 points when it should be 1.9 or so.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 7, 2012 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
I couldn't agree any more with you.
Tyreke possesses some absolutely incredible talents, but I worry about the sustainability of him running our offense. I’m inclined to at least give him the rest of the season to round into form. I do think that it is worth keeping our options open for a more veteran PG with better court vision and awareness…perhaps IT or Jimmer can one day be this guy, but I suspect it will be awhile.
Is Calderon for Reke a balanced trade on talent and upside? God, no. Could it result in an improved Kings team for the next ~5 years? I think that’s a tougher one to answer, and deserves some honest reflection.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
it very well could
although Calderon is a complete turnstile on defense, so I’d probably pass on that one.
but you’re right. PG’s the most important position in the NBA, and a good point guard is a force multiplier for your offense. Tyreke can accomplish a lot individually, and he can disrupt on defense, but he hasn’t yet shown much ability to facilitate. He does pass the rock, but that’s not the same thing as facilitating.
Watching him, one gets the sense that he’s had offenses built around his individual talents for his entire career. He hasn’t learned to involve others because he never had to. It worked out OK his rookie year because opponents weren’t familiar with him yet; now they are, and they have some of the world’s best athletes concentrating on taking away the two or three things he knows how to do really well.
He’s so physically gifted that he can overwhelm a lot of them and make a play anyway, but it clearly tires him out. He may never be a Ricky Rubio, but If Smart can help him develop his court vision, passing, and decision-making (and I think he can), it’ll make him vastly more efficient because he’ll be able to conserve his energy.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 7, 2012 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
Or, you get a PG that is already a good facilitator and develop 'Reke's dominance off-the-ball.
I’ve seen flashes of it this year when IT has it going good. The Toronto game, in particular, Isaiah was using his quickness to get into the lane and dishing it off to whichever of Cousins or Tyreke had an open lane to the basket and the Kings were getting more easy baskets than I can remember seeing since the Glory Years. IT was drawing the attention of the defense, and it was giving ‘Reke (and Cuz) just enough extra space that they could do their thing without the defense being set up to stop them. Clearly, IT isn’t ready to do that consistently, yet, and it depends a lot on how the defense is playing us, but I really like a lot of what I’ve seen of ‘Reke as a slasher instead of just a driver. I do think Evans has improved his facilitating a bit this season, and I’m not necessarily giving up on having him run this team, but I’m starting to think that the “answer” that the Kings need is to put ’Reke in better position to score instead of trying to get him to learn how to outsmart the defense.
"If you're going to lead the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience." -Geoff Petrie
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 8, 2012 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Great take
I like the Thunder and Lightning aspect of Evans/Thomas, inasmuch as Thomas does a better job of pushing the ball up court, while Evans does a better overall job initiating the halfcourt offense. Having Thomas (or a guard like him) bring the ball up would take some work and pressure off of Tyreke, and it would allow the Kings to run sets both with Evans at the point and as an off-ball cutter.
The question is whether Thomas or Fredette can develop into that consistent type of guard (I’m not writing either of them off). The more I see Thornton play, the more I am becoming convinced that he does not have the handles to be the yin to Tyreke’s yang, but his scoring punch still makes him a valuable guard rotation player.
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C'hai is the 18th letter in the Hebrew alphabet and signifies life,
which is why Casspi has worn #18. For whatever reason, he’s wearing #36 (double C’hai) here.
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by section214 on Feb 7, 2012 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stupid Catholic school taught me nothing!
Anthony Parker must not have been willing to give it up
by wallywagon11 on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
That's OK...
I’m not going to be too hard on Hayes…
Allow me. Chuck Hayes played like complete garbage. And he looks like fat tub of nacho cheese.
When he was on the court, the team was a train wreck, minus 15. His worst play was who-cares pass in the front court that turned into break away lay-up. In the last timeout Chuckwagon was staring off into space, acting like he wanted to be somewhere else. He looks lethargic and disinterested. This is our so-called glue and designated team captain? Dude needs to get his s*ht together. If you are not healthy or cardio ready, go back on the injured reserve. You’re of no help to the team playing at 60 to 70%.
Sucks for Donte with chance to be a hero, but I still want to see him to get more playing time. He has skills, size, leg speed, finishing ability.
Smart Era, y'all.
agreed on hayes, said the same thing earlier
I think hes scared to hurt his shoulder again. It also doesn’t look like he has full range of motion, like short arming shots and not going up and extending for rebounds. He needs the scrapiness and aggression I was expecting before the season.
definitely not 100%
no way is his separated shoulder better yet. that’s a painful injury and it takes a couple months of rest (which he’s not getting) to heal fully. I agree that he probably needs another week or two of conditioning and PT work.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 7, 2012 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
The beginning of this post was at the bottom of my screen
And so the only part of the post that I could see was the quote in purple, followed by the sentence that ends with fat tub of nacho cheese, and I thought to myself, Blob is weighing in on the Chuckwagon. Agree or disagree, Blob has style.
Personally, I have been very disappointed in Chuck this year. I don’t think he has been a bad player, but I do not think he has been a good player either. He does look thick, and slow, and I hate seeing the lockout as a reason for anyone being out of shape. We throw it around like it was only the Kings who did not have training camp. Chuck was not in shape at the beginning of the year, and he looks lost on offense. He does set the best screens on the team, and provides some decent man defense, but he certainly is not playing well enough to start. If JJ was not so god awful this year, Chuck would be our 4th big. He only played for Westphal for 7 games, I don’t know how all the life could be sucked out of him so quickly.
Council votes 5-4 to not put Arena on ballot
Whew…way closer than I thought
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Who were the "ayes"?
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Have not heard yet (wasn't there)
35 and 31. I'm calling it now. Reke and Cousins 1-2 in most improved award both All-stars. Jimmer leads rookies in scoring, passing and Ole's. Make 2nd round of playoffs and Salmons is not here by seasons end.
Thursday Night at PBP
Battle of the NaPG!
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Reinforced glass are being readied for the backboards
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
That clang you hear
Is the reverb off the hoop after DMC throws down on Perkins.
I miss Big Mike and his Arco Thunder monologue.
by RJinFairOaks on Feb 7, 2012 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
i cant wait till tyreke becomes as consistent as westbrook
their games are very similar, but i think westbrook is a better passer at this point tho.
Yet Evans has a significantly better assist/turnover ratio
1.8 for Evans, 1.4 for Westbrook.
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Westbrook is a better passer and has a much better jump shot that has improved in his time in the NBA
by Since'89 on Feb 7, 2012 11:09 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
The numbers do not support your passing claim,
though I would agree that Westbrook is the superior overall player.
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Today
though I would agree that Westbrook is the superior overall player.
by betweentheeyes on Feb 7, 2012 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
defense
Westbrook REALLY outshines Tyreke on the defensive side of the ball.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 7, 2012 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
I think this has to do with more of who each guard every night.
Tyreke mainly guards 2’s and 3’s because of the size of his backcourt mates, making Tyreke a more versatile defender, whereas Westbrook does not have to do that because of the size and length of Sefolosha and Harden. I do think Westbrook is the better on-the-ball defender.
"First we get jobs, then we get the khakis, then we get the chicks."
If you have ideas, there is a trade thread
If you are just trolling, please stop.
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I think this team is definitely moving in the right direction.
I haven’t been this excited over the Kings future in a long, long time. Coach Smart is going to be great for this ball club. I still really want Petrie replaced but tha is for another discussion.. None of the Kings star players (Cuz, Reke and Thornton) need to be traded, when I see this written all the time around here it bugs me for some reason, they just need time to grow together under Smart and his staff. Have patience, I know it’s very hard sometimes but you’re Kings fans it’s to be expected to be a tough cookie.
I know everything isn’t rainbows and sunshine with the Kings right now, but when Westphal was in charge earlier this season, I had absolutely no faith or hope that things were going to improve any time soon, I honestly wrote in a game thread a month and a half ago they would be lucky to win 10 games this season…now I see them winning over 20. Yay! Now that’s not a huge jump but it is a definite improvement.
The Kings are trending upwards even if the media is unaware of it… and it feels pretty damn good! A couple more pieces added and a couple pieces removed and the good times will be rolling again….maybe even make the playoffs next year if things go well. The Sac Kings are here to stay! (even though I’m in SD) ;)
Step up big men
None of the the bigs really got tough with Pekovic and made him catch the ball in uncomfortable spots. The first few minutes i was shocked to see how deep Pekovic was catching the ball against DMC. I was waiting for DMC to push his weight around against him but he never did. I know that guy is a bull, but c’mon, he’s not Shaq. I want to see DMC get nasty when other bigs try to push him around.
I thought it was funny that Jerry wasn’t hyping up Rubio like he does with other young, emerging players. The guy had 14 assists and 5 steals and they barely talked about his game. I remember Jerry said last year that he didn’t think Rubio would turn out to be a better player than Reke, I think he’ll be wrong on that prediction. Rubio’s is a classic lead guard whose got a lot of Steve Nash in him and someday could lead the league in assists and steals in the same season. But the Kings made the right pick in Reke, they couldn’t wait for someone for two years. Reke is flawed but has great skills.
Pek is a tough matchup for anyone
who wants to play a physical game. Cousins can muscle a lot of centers around, but Pek has 20 pounds on him, and he’s all muscle. I’m sure at some point Cousins will figure out how to deal with a guy like Pek, but last night was not that time.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 8, 2012 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
The way the game was being called greatly benefited Pekovic
He was essentially allowed to bully his way in the paint for most of the game. At times it worked both ways, Pekovic could mug the defender to get position in paint but would get slapped across the arm and no foul.
That certainly didn't happen on the other end.
The Kings were saints.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 8, 2012 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
Jerry on Rubio
Did had to laugh when Jerry said Rubio hadn’t had a good offensive game as he only had 6 points. While true he also had 13 assists which also accounts for offense too doesn’t it?
by Murf on Feb 8, 2012 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Jerry's sort of hamstrung himself with his naysaying on Rubio before the draft a few years ago
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Its just funny to read
some of the comments after a loss.
Lets trade Tyreke. He’s dumb. He’s this and that.
But when the Kings win, which in most cases is influenced by his production these naysayers are gone. He had a terrific week, nobody said a thing. He has one bad game, people will trade him for a bag of chips. Just gets old to be honest.
Let these guys develop under Smart. They had only a handful of games together. Its ok to criticize him, but I’d say its just ignorant to blame all the losses on one guy.
no way do I want to trade Tyreke
we wouldn’t get equal value and he’s definitely still learning. I do think he should shift to his more natural position at SG, though.
by EscapingLosAngeles on Feb 8, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
A bad matchup for Tyreke
Rubio is a pretty smart defender….REALLY sagged off Tyreke and is long enough to still contest pull-up jumper. Jiimer got no run when match-ups were not in his favor nor should he have…….Likewise Tyreke struggled vs Rubio’s length/brain. Here’s to hoping Tyreke really stresses defense Thursday night to try to slow down Westbrook
IMO lets dump Hickson and go talk to Pryzbilla…..We should be able to get a 1st from a contender for Hickson and maybe someone off the bottom of the roster, then we pick up Pryzbilla (who is healthy now, just relaxing at home).
Founder of Isaiah as Mogwai..
No GM is dumb enough to give a 1st for Hickson
…
…
…
by lchristmas on Feb 8, 2012 10:58 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Or did I step into your implication???!
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I doubt we were the only team
Last season who would have given up a lottery protected first round pick for a 22 year old PF with 2 straight seasons with a PER over 15.
I seem to recall there being other assets shipped out in that deal
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If you consider PER the be-all, end-all, I suppose you're right
If you believe however, that it overvalues rebounding a bit (as many people do), the numbers even out.
So, when the trade was made, here were the career numbers for the two players in question:
Those numbers are pretty close, outside of rebounding and PER. You could look at the advanced stats and say Hickson had been slightly better in his career to that point, but so much better you include a first round pick? Not really.
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I don't think PER is a be all, just an easy comparison
Especially since neither player is a very good defender (PER’s biggest blind spot).
I wish we hadn’t included the pick. But getting a big for a wing with Hickson’s career stats wasn’t a bad gamble. Wish we had the pick, but the lottery protection means it will still be another year or two before it comes into play.
It certainly makes it a bit more palatable
But, (and I know people are probably sick of me saying it) it doesn’t allow Petrie to have full control of the pick until we are officially eliminated from the playoffs – and doesn’t allow him any control of first rounders beyond next season.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I mean unlike the Salmons trade, most people were pretty happy with the Hickson trade
And IIRC, it was pretty well reviewed by the analysts as well.
Hasn’t worked out so far, but it certainly made sense.
I don't remember it that way at all, to be honest
I think Hickson for Casspi straight up would have been fair, or we could have added in another less valuable asset or taken on a bit of salary from Cleveland to even it out. But not a first rounder. The difference between the two players wasn’t that large.
I do remember being confused as to why a young rebuilding team was getting rid of a “22 year old PF with 2 straight seasons with a PER over 15” though. After this player’s interesting stay in Israel during the offseason, I started to wonder even more if we got fleeced on the deal.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
I forget the exact nature of that first round pick
But my impression at that time was that we would only have to pay up if Hickson significantly improved the team…or we do really well in the draft this year.
Look I agree. At the time I wished we could have avoided the 1st rounder
But it had good protections. I don’t think a protected first with a mediocre wing for a big is bad. If Hickson had kept his PER north of 15 instead of dropping to 10, we wouldn’t even be debating this.
But there may be a reason his PER has dropped to 10
Maybe it’s more his natural level of play and Cleveland figured that out.
Sacramento Kings - helping feed NBA fans across the country since 2011
Meh.
He’s been in the league 3 years and seen his PER progress from 12.5 to 15.2 to 15.6. He also did this on two very different Cavs teams. One with LeBron & Brown coaching. One without LeBron and Scott coaching.
The Cavs had supposedly turned down multiple offers for him previously. They were willing to part with him after drafting another player at his position with the 4th pick. I think they knew he would never be a star player (so did we).
But I don’t think they foresaw him dropping off a cliff. I think HT did a great job the other day pinpointing Hickson’s struggles this year versus last. He hasn’t become less talented. He’s being used differently and is likely struggling to adjust to fluctuating minutes as well.
Depends on your point of view
Taking Thompson with the #4 pick was a bit of a reach IMO.
So if you have JJ Hickson and you expect him to be a solid player, but maybe not a superstar, isn’t that a decent piece for the future? You pick Irving with the #1 and you take another position of need with the #4, keep Hickson (who is 22 and solid and under contract for another season or two). Or you deal the #4 and pick up a veteran player.
I doubt we’ll find agreement on this, because I suspect Cleveland saw something more about Hickson than just a guy who wouldn’t reach “star” status.
So I may just be a conspiracy theorist. ;)
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I don't think we are that far off
Hickson will never be a Go To player or a great defender. I think he can be a good rotation player (be it starter or bench player).
I just didn’t agree that they somehow anticipated him dropping below even his rookie level performance. I think he just wasn’t Scott’s type of player and they were willing to trade him.
From what I've seen of Hickson this year
After they made that trade, Cleveland’s front office probably started giggling uncontrollably.
Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.
I think you are probably correct Otis
But we were not going to get anything out of Casspi as long as Westphal was going to coach the Kings.
Don't worry
Hickson will be a new man after coach Westphal gets done coaching him up.
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rookie/soph game
hopin Cuz, IT and Jimmer get picked and are on same team. Wouldn’t be surprised if Barkley picked Jimmer…they golfed together in a charity tourney over the summer……Jimmer was the only one Barkley shot better than.
A bit off topic
but given I am a Justice fan and this recap is of a game against the Wolves, couldn’t help it
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