How about a return for White Chocolate?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 30, 2007 9:44 AM PST Comment 29 comments

(From the diaries: a proposal to revisit the White Chocolate Era. Could Petrie go for another salary dump? Kenny Thomas gets involved in the comments. -TZ)

Vescey:

Williams is being shopped. During the offseason he underwent knee surgery and has yet to make a full recovery. That and his contract ($8.2M and $8.9M) make him a tough sell. Payton, meanwhile, is rapidly approaching retirement, the only thing he's doing quickly most evenings. "That's not all Miami is in the hunt for," a west coast exec reveals. "A lot of calls are being made in hopes of landing a legit scorer, someone like Ricky Davis."
I suggested before that the Heat likely wouldn't mind taking Bibby if it was in exchange for just expiring deals...but would Kings fans rather have another season of Williams (as opposed to 2 more (and more expensive) years with Bibby)?

http://tinyurl.com/ytuc62

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Obviously I'm sure you'd rather try and get them to take Kenny Thomas (him for Posey works out) too...but I doubt that's possible.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 30, 2007 9:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

The Kings need an incentive in this, more than one less year of overpaid point guard. Losing KT for Posey's expiring might do that. That's a net savings of $12 million next year and $22 million in 2008, assuming Bibby doesn't opt out (which is the assumption at this point).

That's enough to do it. The Kings would have to throw in Potapenko to make Bibby-Williams work. That's a net savings of $1.5 million for 2008, which clearly isn't enough incentive.

Could Miami possibly justify taking back KT's contract in order to land Bibby, the point guard they need who also serves as the #3 scorer they need? Would they turn into the prohibitive favorite in the East with Bibby? By taking Thomas, they essentially concede the 2009 and 2010 seasons (though they might have already done this by extending Shaq through 2010).

Also, Petrie has not hesitated to make bold salary-based (as opposed to talent-based) moves in the past. Sending Chris Webber's $20 million to Philly for an era worth of Kenny Thomas wasn't exactly popular here, but has probably worked out for the best, all things considered. (And yes, I know I'm going to get flamed for this comment. My fire-retardant has been applied. Blast away.)

I'd say no to Bibby&PotapenkoforWilliams, but a cautious yes to Bibby&ThomasforWilliams&Posey. I could see a third team get involved here, too, because I assume Petrie would be pleased to get this done without watching Williams run the offense for a year and a half.

(Also, have two players ever been traded for each other twice, with one GM involved in both trades?)

by Ziller on Jan 30, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

It was the right move, because it is easier to move three guys making 20 mil, than 1 guy making 20 mil.

by Chris The Greek on Jan 30, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Yep. Next year, Sacramento is paying a guy $8.5 million for 8 pts, 6 rebs. Philly is paying a guy $20 million to play for a different team.

I know some in our community disagree greatly with this suggestion, though, so I await the sulfur.

by Ziller on Jan 30, 2007 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

I fudged things up a bit. BibbyforWilliams wouldn't include Potapenko, it'd include Michael Doleac, which is $3 million of expiring contract. It makes BibbyforWilliams slightly more palatable, but not nearly as much as Bibby&ThomasforWilliams&Posey.

by Ziller on Jan 30, 2007 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

In answer to your final question, yes, TZ. Scott Layden (w/ the Jazz) traded Blue Edwards and Eric Murdock to the Bucks in 1992 or 1993 for Jay Humprhies and Larry Krystkowiak. Layden traded Humprhies back to the Bucks for Edwards in February of 1995.

I think this deal makes the most sense:

Sacramento receives:
Jason Williams
Dorell Wright
Michael Doleac
James Posey
1st Round pick in 2007 draft

Miami receives:
Mike Bibby
Kenny Thomas
Jason Hart
A Sacramento 1st round draft pick that is lottery protected through 2011.

At least with Jason back, if Muss gives him the green light to be himself, our team can be exciting again. Lately it's been downright freakin' boring, whether we win or not. Posey's contract expires this year, Doleac and Jason's after next year. We get Wright and another pick for this season.

Although, if I'm Pat Riley I'm asking for Ron Artest, not Kenny Thomas. I'd still do that deal as long as we get some cap relief by 2008-2009, and Wright and the pick this year.

by bballblog on Jan 30, 2007 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

There is no way Miami would give up Wright especially since they would give us Williams and Posey. Wright is their Kevin Martin (e.g. Detroit's Maxiell, Golden State's Biedrins, etc.)

by kingme on Jan 30, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

I disagree. Riley is all about winning now. Riley would look at Bibby & Artest and automatically think championship (and rightfully so). If it took Wright to get the deal done, especially if they're going to sign Eddie Jones anyways, he'd do it.

Riley has never played young guys much, with the exception of Wade. Now he might not do the same deal for KT, but you can bet your ass he would for Bibby and Artest.

by bballblog on Jan 30, 2007 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

But he did not give Wade to the Lakers when they were asking for him. Why would they give up Wright when they are already going to give us posey and Jwil plus they would also have to should Thomas' contract?

by kingme on Jan 30, 2007 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

As I said, if I'm Pat Riley, I'm asking for Ron Artest, not Kenny Thomas. Riley is about championships and winning now. I don't think Riles would trade Wright/Jason/James/Doleac/pick for Bibby/Thomas/Hart/pick. But I do think he would give up those same guys and the draft pick for Bibby/Artest. Bibby would alleviate some pressure off Wade in crunch time and Artest would guard guys like LeBron, Kobe, McGrady, and Vince so Wade wouldn't have to.

Check out Riley's history - most of his stars have either already been established as such (even Wade was a star before Riley started coaching again, although Riley did draft him), or he caught lightning in a bottle and they became a star instantly. Wright is still a few years away. He's had a couple of good games this year.

If all Riley has to give up to get Bibby and Artest to ensure they have the best possible chance to win a championship this year, he's going to sacrifice Wright for that. He sacrificed Lamar Odom (a player he absolutely LOVES) and Caron Butler to get Shaq and it's a move that paid off in the end. Two years later they won a championship.

If Riley were to pull the trigger on this deal to get Artest/Bibby it'd once again no doubt make them the favorites in the East again. Musselman might not be able to get Bibby/Artest to co-exist but I guarantee you Shaq and Riley could.

by bballblog on Jan 30, 2007 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

I agree with TZ... not staightup MB for JW but if we can get rid of K9 then perhaps. James Posey is a talented player and could do well in Sac, but where does he play? SFs are not scarce on this team. My gut says no.

by Mityt on Jan 30, 2007 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Ron has been playing lots of PF, and Salmons/Garcia/Artest has been a not uncommon lineup of late. Luckily, our SFs are really versatile. That's been a feature of this roster. Hasn't translated to wins, but it does allow you the flexibility to bring a guy like Posey in for a few months. And if you trade Artest...

The Posey inclusion is almost straight cap relief. He'd get minutes, but he's not a building block or anything.

by Ziller on Jan 30, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Eddie Jones is reportedly going back to the Heat

Perhaps making Posey even more expendable?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2748259

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 30, 2007 12:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Just beat me to the punch on that one. Just read about EJones. Doesn't make sense for Grizz if they plan to move Gasol...or anyone. Wouldn't $15 million of expiring contract be quite a bargaining chip?

by Mityt on Jan 30, 2007 12:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

it's only valuable if you want to take on more salary, which the Grizz don't.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 30, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

They arent going to get Eddie Jones for anything anyways, ya might as well. Like Mo Taylor or a Jalen Rose.

by kingme18 on Jan 30, 2007 12:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Bibby is better than Williams but I'd like J-Dub backon this team because

of his contract
he has matured
he is fun to watch
he has a ring
unlike Bibby, he does not want to be the main man

by kingme on Jan 30, 2007 5:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

i like the deal that has to include bibby and thomas for posey and williams plus whatever spare pairs. i'll do this deal in an instant as it looks like joakim noah might be a future king (no oden or durrant as it looks like the top 3 picks will be from the east).

by dun on Jan 30, 2007 5:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Isn't Noah projected to be picked #3?

by kingme on Jan 30, 2007 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

he is? i thought he was slipping... i don't keep up as i'm a bruin; so right now he's the enemy.

by dun on Jan 30, 2007 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hi, dun!I'm a Bruin too....

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/rhondda

by Rhondda Nunes on Jan 31, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

Maybe if UCLA wins the NCAA tournie instead of Florida; Noah falls lower a bit?

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/rhondda

by Rhondda Nunes on Jan 30, 2007 7:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

I would like to see J.W. back. Not sure he could help this squad though. Lets bring back Gerald Wallace too, so that Williams would have someone to throw alley oops to.

by dccamp on Jan 30, 2007 7:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

yea... a gerald wallace and emeka for brad and artest. won't happen but dreaming is good

by dun on Jan 30, 2007 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

once charlotte gets used to winning games and adam morrison starts playing better, they have potential to be a good team, as built.

by CrownUs93 on Jan 30, 2007 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How about a return for White Chocolate?

follow up via hoopshype.com:

One NBA general manager said Tuesday that even though there is a market for James Posey's expiring contract, there's little quality available among point guards on the trade market. The Heat always has liked Mike Bibby, but Sacramento has no interest in Miami's available commodities.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 31, 2007 8:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs