New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury Trade

by Ziller on Nov 15, 2007 9:59 AM PST in Free Agency/Trades Comment 30 comments

Despite the usual qualms with using the New York tabloids as references on trade rumors, The Sun actually has a nice basketball page. (They also employ John Hollinger with bi-weekly columns.) The Sun's Martin Johnson thinks Sacramento is the best fit for a Stephon Marbury trade.

The most obvious trade partner for the Knicks is the Sacramento Kings, their opponent tomorrow night. The Kings are in disarray and would like to move some bodies to get closer to a new start. I'm sure the Kings' management would like to trade guard Mike Bibby and forward Ron Artest, but I doubt either will enter the conversation in a trade for Marbury. Both Bibby and Artest have contracts that expire in the summer of '09 already, so there's no advantage gained in moving them for another contract with the same end point. But the Kings are in no short supply of underperforming players with big contracts, and they would be happy to move some combination of center Brad Miller or forwards Kenny Thomas and Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Each is on the books until 2010. So moving them for a deal that ends sooner should be attractive to Kings' GM Geoff Petrie.

That'd be something, losing all that contract without sending out Bibby or Artest. Miller and Thomas would get it done on paper... but you certainly wouldn't be getting any sort of prospect back. It also doesn't make any sense for the Knicks, who need a point guard.

But hey, the Knicks are coming to town. Expect to hear much more of this type of thing.

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Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury Trade

I understand the logic in wanting to unload Miller's contract; but, beware, if Brad were traded we'd be in big, big trouble offensively. He is by far the best facilitator we have. The floor shrinks when Brad is on the bench. Somehow or another, he's able to help spread the floor for us. With Miller, Bibby, and Ron all healthy we are probably a 35 - 40 win team. With Mike out and Miller traded, I'll bet we are a 25 win team....maybe.

But, like Kingme has been preaching, we may have to get a whole bunch worse to get better.

by Kusian on Nov 15, 2007 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

35 wins doesn't help the franchise

What good will 35 wins do for the franchise? They'd miss the playoffs, get a worse draft pick, and it could be argued that they're "just a player or two away from contending" . . . which we all know is false.

I agree completely that you have to get worse before you can get better. Get some more young talent in, free up some cap space, and make a run at a superstar when you have a supporting cast for one.

The ideal is to dump contracts and pick up Prospects/Draft Picks in the process, but sometimes beggars can't be choosers.

by smgmatt on Nov 15, 2007 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

I dunno, I think it's always dangerous to play the "dump the season and get a better draft pick" scenario. There are teams out there that have been doing that for years (the Hawks come immediately to mind). Not every franchise can pull that off, as a top-5 pick isn't necessarily a sure-fire superstar.

Isn't there also a danger that you're ingraining a losing attitude within your team?

Plus, with the attendance figures the way they are at this point, I'm not sure the Maloofs really wants to field a 55 loss squad.

Honestly, the team stinks so far - no doubt about it. But if the first couple of weeks have shown anything, it's that our young backcourt is pretty damn good. This is something to build around, the pieces just have to be added around that talent.

Most teams that show up in the lottery need help everywhere. That's not the case with this team, at least not in my opinion. They need to develop some frontcourt help, and if getting Artest, Hawes and Justin into the mix with Brad Miller and letting Mikki, KT and Reef wave towels on the sideline improves that frontcourt tangibly, I think the team is really on the right track.

Maybe they wouldn't be able to raise this team to the level of playoff caliber, but they could certainly be close. They'd be developing their young talent as well. I could just be the eternal optimist, but I don't think wholesale changes are really the way to go here...they are a few pieces away IMO (although one of those pieces could be our coach - remains to be seen).

by otis29 on Nov 15, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

There's always a flip side to every scenario. And the flip side you present is well said sir.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Nov 15, 2007 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

I think some has-beens make great bench players, others don't. And sometimes circumstance dictates their patience, like when one plays on a really good team and thinks he may walk away at the end of the season with a championship ring. Those guys love to say things like, "I'm here to do whatever I can for this team, whatever is asked of me." No kidding. You'd probably grovel to not get traded. Then there are those guys, like Big Nasty, who have their ring and all the experience and confidence that comes along with being a winner, who can play ten minutes a night, coach forty, and feel real godfather like about the whole thing. The Kings now have a bunch of vets who've never won anything in their pro career. They feel the creakiness of age taking them, their professonal aspirations drifting away, and a desperation to be a winner so fierce they are becoming surly and disgruntled. They've developed a misplaced sense of entitlement. If I were to define a losing attitude it would be that. To not win does not necessarily develop a losing attitude--it can develop a hunger to win just as easily.

by NYCFan on Nov 15, 2007 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

That was damn near poetic, NYC...

Thanks for the contribution.

by Kusian on Nov 15, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

That was nice. Thank you.

by NYCFan on Nov 15, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

I agree with Kusian. Fantastic response NYCFan.

That was hands-down the best counterpoint to the "losing breeds a losing attitude" argument that I've ever heard.

by smgmatt on Nov 15, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: 35 wins doesn't help the franchise

Fantastic points NYC! I agree. It seems like the first two veteran types are the ones you see getting 10 minutes a game and spending the other 40 or so cheering on their teammates, "waving the towels" as you say. We saw that with Vlade too. While the last group of veterans you speak of do end up with a fierce desire to win, they often times seem to focus internally on their own plight and react in a detrimental fashion instead of trying to figure out how to maximize the roles they do have.

He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Nov 15, 2007 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury Trade

I'm with Kingme on that one.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Nov 15, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury Trade

I hope Petrie has more sense than to make this trade. It would only set the rebuilding process back. This is a bad deal and about a cancer of a player.

by KingsFan on Nov 15, 2007 10:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

How does it set the process back?

How exactly does dropping almost $22M (in the example of Miller & Thomas) off the books a year early push back the rebuilding process?

Do you mean because Hawes & Williams would get more playing time? Or because Miller/Thomas are part of the rebuild?

If Marbury is a cancer here you send him home and keep paying him (so that you can use his ending contract in a deal next year) or simply wait out his contract and free up that cap room . . . which is usually PART of the rebuilding process.

I'm no fan of "Starbury", AT ALL, but if Petrie could void the 3rd year on the Miller & Thomas contracts right now you think he WOULDN'T?

by smgmatt on Nov 15, 2007 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: How does it set the process back?

I may be wrong here, but I highly doubt that you can just trade for a player and then keep him away from the team.
I think you can buyout his contract or he's a part of the team (unless he doesn't want to be on the team, but that's another story)

by cwebb on Nov 15, 2007 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Inactive Roster?

I don't know what the rules are, but the Pacers put Ron Artest on the Inactive Roster when they decided they were done with him, and he played when he got to Sacramento, so I don't think it was an injury related placement.

I'm also not sure if he was still getting paid (although I'm pretty sure he was), and I don't know what the requirements are for putting a player on the Inactive Roster, but it certainly seems possible.

by smgmatt on Nov 15, 2007 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

Now that my splitting headache has receded, marginally, I thought I would point this out. Moving Reef for long term cap relief (pat garrity would be fine with me) would help the franchise. Who really wants Kenny Thomas? So keep his bitching serial killer ass and don't cut him. After all he does take a roster spot. And last I checked you aren't breaking the bank for Mookey or J-Will, and again nobody cares about K-9's feelings anyway, so what does Theus have to lose? This is one big stinky sickly mess and it's Petrie's to clean up. He needs to start small, and not big.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Nov 15, 2007 11:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

Maybe Marbury gives us a cheap buyout. I dunno, 30 million of his 42 million dollar deal?

The Sacramento Kings: Where Amazing Happens!

by kingme18 on Nov 15, 2007 12:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

What was the purpose of the Chris Webber deal for Philly's standpoint? To save three years on Kenny Thomas' contract.

The Sacramento Kings: Where Amazing Happens!

by kingme18 on Nov 15, 2007 12:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

I thought it was to roll three bad deals into one payment, kind of like one of those debt consolidation loans.

"Yankees Giants Giants Yankees Giants Giants Giants. Yankees."

by Grant Napears Taint on Nov 15, 2007 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

That's really funny.

by NYCFan on Nov 15, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

That's why I didn't criticize Billy King for making that deal either.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Nov 15, 2007 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

Any news on Webber? Is he even playing this year? Probably holding out until a contender wants to pick him up later in the year.

by Kusian on Nov 15, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade Bibby, Thomas, & Rahim

Heres a trade that would work beautifully: Mike Bibby, Kenny Thomas, & Shareef Abdur-Rahim in exchange for Stephon Marbury, Fred Jones, & Randolph Morris. Salaries match & in less than 2 years kings will be 30 million under the cap. Fred jones & Randolph Morris are thrown to make the numbers work & player count the same & they are both free agents after this year. This trade is great because its gets rid of our 2 biggest & most over-paid under-achievers in Thomas & Rahim. Our front line would consist of Miller, Moore, Hawes, & Justin Williams. Beno can run the point.

by ac6953 on Nov 15, 2007 2:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense in Marbury

Of course, that's 30 million under the cap BEFORE Petrie signs a couple of scrubs to the mid-level exception.

Visit sunny and beautiful Movie City USA.

by DB on Nov 15, 2007 3:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Orien Greene

Bee's reporting that Orien Greene was waived today. Anyone have anything else on that (aside from the fact that it seemed inevitable)?

by Snakes in the Trees on Nov 15, 2007 3:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Orien Greene

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7452636
Godspeed, Orien.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 15, 2007 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Marbury

what's so bad about having SAR, moore, williams, watkins, and hawes for a ton of minutes once miller and thomas are gone?

///

the brad miller being the key to the teams success act has been getting quite tired for a long time and we all have our like-minded opinions about kenny "the poodle" "ham hands" or whatever else you want to call him thomas. if i'm mr. petrie i jump at the opportunity of unloading two liabilities for one

Whether your dominating the playground, the last one to leave the gym, or your big time like Mike Bibby...

by CrownUs93 on Nov 15, 2007 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Marbury

I don't know if Brad is the key to any type of "success." However, with the current group, he's a key - though certainly not the only - to watching anything resembling a decent offense. I realize that his list of negatives is long and distinguished. So, I'm not disagreeing with your post so much as looking at things from a slightly different perspective.

by Kusian on Nov 15, 2007 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Greene

I think Greene was under-used, and not put into situations were he could be most effected.

He should have had a bigger role coming off the bench, and told to just Pass the ball, and defend.
Same with Mustafa Shakur, We don't need Beno, we need the guys we had, who had the ability to defend.

This team is upsetting me more by the day.

by dkons21 on Nov 15, 2007 7:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Greene

On an unrelated note, www.firetheus.com is still available for anyone to take...

by moproblemz on Nov 15, 2007 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: New York Sun: Kings Make Most Sense

As much as I'd like to see the rebuilding plan accelerated, I think it's better to keep Miller. Shawes needs a mentor, Brad provides some organizational continuity, he represents a link to good years and a "Kings Tradition" that is important to cultivate, and slimmed down, he's actually a net-positive out on the floor.

Artest is good to have around because he brings a sense of urgency, toughness and work ethic.

Bibby...frankly doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on anyone else's game, preparation, attitude or mindset and so I think he's good to go.

by Brother Hedo on Nov 15, 2007 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs