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You Won't Have Billy King To Kick Around Anymore

Philadelphia has been wrestled from the wretched hands of Billy King. There will be plenty of time for celebration for fans of the 76ers and fans of sanity in basketball. For now, we discuss Billy King's greatest achievement with regards to we Sacramento fans: He took Chris Webber off our hands.

The Webber trade was before most sportsblogs existed -- there were some (Blog-a-Bull's predecessor comes to mind), but it was land of the message boards. As such, few schools of thought erupted in any defined form online in the wake. Of course, fans all made up their own minds, and columnists became the flag bearers. Ailene Voisin wishes Webber were traded in 1999, I'm sure; Marty McNeal has hated this team since a) Brad Miller came to town, and b) Webber left. There are definitely folks on each side of the aisle here at Sactown Royalty; as such, I expect a thrilling thread though I request extra attention to respecting other opinions.

I've been on the fence about the deal since February 24, 2005. Immediately, I was shocked. "It's over! The run is over." Then relieved. "God, that contract was atrocious. We have flexibility now." Then worried. "Oh my god, Kenny Thomas? Brian Skinner? Corliss Williamson?" Then consoled. "Wow, K-9 can pass and rebound; Skinner can play defense!" Then frustrated. "First round? FIRST round?" Then excited "Sha-reef Abdur-Rahim!" Now? I've forgotten about it, for the most part.

It is impossible to measure what the Webber trade did to our psyche as Kings fans. Yes, the Doug Christie trade and the Vlade Divac abandonment marked a certain end of the era. But the team was still good... quite good. Since the trade, the team has only been 'quite good' during Ron Artest's magic carpet ride. That's a long time to wind down, when you think about it. As such, there should be plenty of data in order to measure the real basketball impact of the trade.

I'm going to assume that if Billy King didn't take Webber, no one would have. I'm also going to assume the signing of Shareef Abdur-Rahim would not have happened without the Webber trade. I think these are fair assumptions.

Let's compare the production:


PHILADELPHIA
Player     G   Min  Pts  Reb  Ast   FG%  PER  WS   $$$
Webber   114  4138 2044 1055  383  .421 16.7  21  $62M
---------------------------------------------------------------
PER 48M   --  48.0 23.7 12.2  4.4  .421 16.7 .24  $.7M

SACRAMENTO
Player     G   Min  Pts  Reb  Ast   FG%  PER  WS   $$$
Thomas   170  4527 1457 1222  319  .496 13.8  27  $17M
Skinner   63  1124  272  319   37  .553 13.1   8  $10M
Corliss  129  1844  969  369   88  .489 11.9   9  $15M
Shareef  152  3975 1680  755  258  .499 15.0  25  $10M
---------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS   514 11470 4378 2665  702  .500 13.5  69  $52M
PER 48M   --  48.0 18.3 11.2  2.9  .500 13.5 .29  $.2M

WS = Win Shares


Webber had better overall and per-minute production for the 76ers than any of the pieces did for the Kings. Taken in total, the Kings side of the Webber deal performed below average but decently considering the gross (double-meaning there) salary paid. The 76ers, obviously, paid a premium for the somewhat better production -- because Billy King chose to exile Webber two years into his stay, the cost ended up being about $3 million per Win Share, which is outrageous... especially when you consider the Kings -- with those four unattractive contracts of their own -- paid about $750,000 per Win Share. Also, include the fact the Kings got many more minutes for their money -- almost three times as many minutes played for 16% less overall salary. If you are of the opinion you can't find Shareef '06/Kenny '05 level players in the D-League (you can't), then this is an added bonus: The Kings got rougly three slightly below average but well-above replacement level players for less than the price of one above average player (Webber). These factors tell me this: Geoff Petrie won this deal outright.

But there's another factor at play: Webber's contract is finished -- that $62 million is all the 76ers lose in this deal. The Kings? They owe another $42 million to Thomas and Abdur-Rahim. Later today, we'll look at how well the pair would have to play over the life of their contracts to save this deal for Petrie's win column.

0 recs | Comment 16 comments

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Re: You Won't Have Billy King
This trade would have worked out great if K-9 play hadn't gone into a death spiral.  He actually played really well for the half season after the trade putting up about a double double a game and was at least a viable power forward.  Not sure what has happened to his game since but basically this trade has turned getting out from the Webber contract into a slow bandaid peel.    
Damn you Robert Horry!!!

by chupacabra on Dec 4, 2007 11:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: You Won't Have Billy King
At the time I thought it was a brilliant trade brought on by unfortunate circumstances. Post injury Webber was never going to come close to being worth his contract, and we were getting three smaller contracts that would be easier to deal out of. And it would have worked if not for K9(woof!). Man's best friend my ass!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2007 11:45 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: You Won't Have Billy King
I would have been content if K9's play had always been terrible, and not spurts of good rebounding games and good defense (which is what he offers and what we lack). Because had he just been bad all the time then I wouldn't have had to watch him at all. His form on a free throw shot makes me want to throw up, its something I could have done without and now I might remember that 'till I die. How in Beejesus's name can a player have a free throw shot that ugly and call themselves a professional basketball player? Its not like hes shaq and has an excuse, he's 6'6".

by CAB on Dec 4, 2007 2:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: You Won't Have Billy King
You try shooting free throw with paws.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: You Won't Have Billy King
Mikki seems to do okay with lobster claws.

by Ball in Cup on Dec 4, 2007 4:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:
We traded Webber, a frontcourt player who (especially post-injury) often made poor decisions when he touched the ball, for a bunch of frontcourt players who often make poor decisions when they touch the ball.  The crucial difference is that Webber touched the ball much more often.

by Michael Beasley on Dec 4, 2007 4:40 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:
Simply, we never compete for the conference title without Chris Webber. It's as though people want to blame him for the knee injury. If anyone hits a free throw in game 7 we are probably erecting a C-Webb statue outside the new arena, which would probably already be built. Fate's a bitch sometimes.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2007 9:15 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:
I can't argue with that.  He was the best player on the best team in franchise history, and it's not his fault he got injured.  Webber's talent was always incredible--in his prime he was one of the 3 best players in the league--but it was his decision-making that always bothered me.  Before the injury, he was too athletic for it to make much difference.  After the injury his mental weaknesses became manifest.  

A lot of the things we say about Artest now were said about Webber then.  Both players always seem to be trying to figure out what it means to be a leader and then trying to do that.  They don't have the intuitive grasp of the role that defines greater players.  Leaders don't see themselves in other people's eyes; they have one-track, unreflective minds.  Webber always looked a little bit like a kid on the first day of Kindergarten.

by Michael Beasley on Dec 4, 2007 10:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:
I never thought Chris was a franchise player. Which is why I don't put him on the level of a Garnett or Duncan.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 5, 2007 1:58 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: You Won't Have Billy King To Kick Around Anymo
I'm going to say this about Billy King. I thought the Chris Webber trade didn't do him in. I do think he was done in by Ed Snider's dick licking of Larry Brown. Gee, Larry Brown back stabbed Billy King to get his reputation back? What a shock.

As far as Billy King goes I think his resume wasn't stellar to be sure. But I never agreed Chris made him look bad. I also think saying that King spent 10 years as the GM forgets that Larry Brown signed many of those contracts (including Thomas and McKie and King was essentially a guy with a title)and had input over everything King did.

I still believe the Webber trade's biggest negative impact was sending Matt Barnes out of town. I still feel negative about sending Matty out after he essentially put his career on the line coming here without a guaranteed contract. Other than that I felt at the time, and still do, that it was swapping of each team's problem. What people forget, and seem to take for granted now several years later, is that had Brad Miller not gotten hurt 3 GAMES LATER that trade might have worked better. It might not have but it's hard to say what would have happened with Miller since it never happened. I just feel that Billy King isn't the end all be all terrible GM that many make him to be. Garry St. Jean he isn't.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 5, 2007 2:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Billy King
I think the trade would have been perfect, had Geoff not gone out afterwards and signed Shareef for way more than he's worth.

The summer Geoff signed him, the Nets had expressed a strong interest in Shareef and were about to sign him when his knee issue came up.  They decided he was too risky, and the Kings decided to sign him, and at a high price.  

Then Geoff followed this up with the recent signing of Mikki Moore, who was also involved in discussions with New Jersey - whom, again, decided it wasn't worth it.  Then Geoff comes lumbering over and decides to save Moore from would likely have been a mid-level exception deal.

Geoff obviously has an inability to learn from mistakes.

When your team is picking up on the Nets backcourt leftovers, it's a bad sign.

by thelettere on Dec 5, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Billy King
Ummmm, here's the thing. Mikki was signed to 'THE' Mid Level Exception (MLE).
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 5, 2007 6:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Billy King
Got me on that - I didn't realize the mid level exception was that high.

Still, my point stands.  Mikki was overpaid.  For a second opinion, see

http://www.nysun.com/article/58122

by thelettere on Dec 7, 2007 8:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2nd opinion?
There were at least 20 people on this blog alone who thought it was stupid. Why would I read some article from some new york writer?
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 8, 2007 2:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: 2nd opinion?
I dare you to find 20 people (outside of Mikki's family) that thought it was a good signing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 8, 2007 12:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: 2nd opinion?
I have a better chance of seeing sunshine for a day in Seattle today.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 8, 2007 12:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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