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Keep Artest?

I've been surprised at some of the sentiment -- not the 'blow it up' sentiment, which has hung in the Sactown air for about four years now. Of course that sentiment is present when the team's best offensive weapon goes down for possibly two months while the team's three games under .500. The sentiment which has surprised me by sheer presence: The Kings should re-sign Ron Artest this summer.

I'd never considered the possibility after last season. But hey, his nose has been clean since last spring. And it's not like he isn't one of the top players in the league -- the #7 small forward in the league and a better defender than all above him in the PER rankings.

It's certainly a tricky question, made trickier by how well he's played in the Beno Udrih offense. (The Udrih/Martin/Artest/Moore/Miller unit is basically break-even according to basketballvalue.com. Line-ups without Artest and/or Udrih are not good, expect for the surprising Douby/Martin/Salmons/Moore/Miller line, which has performed very well in 28 minutes of time, most of which came against the Spurs and Sonics. I digress.)

The argument you have to decide on, in the end: Do you trust this season? Or do you trust the last two [demanding a trade from the Pacers, the dog abuse thing, the spousal abuse thing, the 'retirement' thing]? We'll know more as we get closer to June; I, however, can't imagine taking that sort of risk on another five years of uncertainty. He makes you a better team, yes. But he's already destroyed one franchise. I don't want the Kings to be next.

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Re: Keep Artest?
If you had to make the decison right now it would have to be no. Dude is going to command probably $70 million plus and as of this moment he still has not gone a full year without getting into trouble.

If by the end of the year Ron has (1) stayed out of trouble and (2) continued to play as he is right now you have to at least consider it.

But here's the rub. If he does stay clean and plays out of his mind his trade value is going to be very high. Given that we're a team that is deep at the swing position could you sign and trade him (I'm figuring that he is going to opt out) to a team that could solve our low post and/or up front athleticism issues? Get some young talent and draft picks?

Me thinkst perhaps this is why Mr. Petrie did not give Ron-Ron away over the summer?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 6, 2007 7:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Agreed. Artest is the best asset the Kings have right now (besides Martin) and it would be foolhardy to give him away or let him walk away for nothing. I am of the mindset that you should try to resign him as he can do things physically which other players simply cannot do. He SEEMS to have turned the corner in his life. Regardless of where Ron ends up lets hope that trend continues.

by Mityt on Dec 6, 2007 8:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Destroyed an entire franchise?  That's a lot of credit to give one man. Especially a franchise that had Isiah Thomas, Rick Carlisle Larry Bird, and Steven Jackson in its fold. Isiah Thomas was convicted of sexual harrassment, has helped Jim Dolan destroy the Knicks franchise, and is about to lose his job. Rick Carlisle is out of work, Larry Bird is regularly ranked as one of the worst GMs in the league. And Steven Jackson most recently unloaded his 9 mm during a fight at a strip club.

i hope for Ron's sake, as much as I enjoy watching him play basketball, that he signs a contract with a team located closer to his family.  Actually, given that his wife likes to throw frying pans, maybe he is better off playing at a distance.

by NYCFan on Dec 6, 2007 8:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
I wrote a series of posts on Artest yesterday when TZ, Section, Otis, and I were debating the issue.  I won't repeat my arguments.  At this point, I am a Ron Ron fan and lean towards keeping him as he is a truly unique talent.  However, one point I did not think about yesterday was what Section mentioned above: the sign and trade for a talented big man. I didn't consider that option yesterday.  It would certainly have to be considered.  More than anything we need an upgrade at the 4/5.

by Kusian on Dec 6, 2007 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Agreed. Ron's ability to bull his way to the basket is unique because he's a small forward.  

by NYCFan on Dec 6, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
I'm not quite sure you and I were debating about Ron-Ron, as we tend to agree that he's a crucial part of the team's turnaround. He is a supremely talented guy, and at the age of 28, could certainly be a part of the rebuilding process instead of a trade chip to move that process along.

Signing him to a 4 or 5 year deal is pretty scary though, and I'd imagine it would scare off a lot of trade partners as well.

by otis29 on Dec 6, 2007 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Not debating - you are right - I meant discussing. And I thought you were part of that string with Section, TZ, and me.

Yes, the 4 to 5 year contract is going to make it more difficult.  Unfortunately, he probably needs to build up more than one year of good-will.

by Kusian on Dec 6, 2007 2:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Signing Artest to a long term deal would be insanely stupid.  He's liable to go nuts at any time, and you're on the hook for five years guaranteed money.  

by Carl on Dec 6, 2007 9:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
I say we trade Ron for a young talent at the 4 or 5 spot, draft picks, or/and cap space.  I just think there are too many questions around Ron's frame of mind to consider signing him to a long term contract unless it is part of a sign and trade.  Besides, we all known that the team is rebuilding and an unfocused Ron + a bad team = trouble.  Another consideration is that small forward is one of the easier positions to find talent later on in the draft ie. Josh Howard, Shawn Marrion, Ron Artest, Peja, Richard Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Tayshaun Prince etc..
Damn you Robert Horry!!!

by chupacabra on Dec 6, 2007 10:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Yeah, it all depends on how the year plays out, as well as Artest's behavior. If they (everyone else besides Artest) play hard nightly for the whole season, I think Artest might be one of those players that would come back for cheaper money than he could get elsewhere. He just seems like that type of dude to me. I say keep him. Dude is gonna be a mismatch every game. Sometimes on O, sometimes on D and sometimes both. Not too many players that bring it at both ends. Lebron, Kobe, Dwight Howard, KG and Artest. Not too many more besides that.

by kingsfaninjapan on Dec 6, 2007 10:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
There are several possibilities and scenarios at work here. First is that you trade him for less than he's worth. Or you keep him and run the risk of his personal issues rearing it's ugly head again. The problem for the Kings as I see it is essentially this: You have a center who creates shots when he's playing well (key word: when)in Miller, 2 swingmen who do a good job creating shots for themselves and no one else (Garcia & Salmons), a great off the ball slasher who essentially is boosting an already good advantage at the FT line (Martin), a young shooter in Douby that is still an unknown quantity, a young Center in Shawes who is essentially in the same boat (but with better standing at this moment in time), and Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur Rahim and Justin Williams. This isn't a team that isn't anything but en flux. (I purposely left off Mikki Moore Ron Artest and Mike Bibby).

I wonder if Mikki would be a better fit for Charlotte (especially as Dec 15 creeps closer and Sam Vincent mouths off again about needing another big) than even Anderson Varejao as Mikki does have offensive skills that Varejao doesn't. Oh well, I've beat this drum before.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 6, 2007 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
Dude is a liability. Although he is playing out of his gourd right now, he's in a contract year. He's going to be on his best behavior because he has to be - his financial future depends on it.
    Although he is a friggin beast, and it'll hurt watching him tear apart our team in the future -- Re-sign him and you're lighting a fuse.
"I am the law." - Sylvester Stallone 1995

by somebunchgrass on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
For me, it comes down to the question of your priorities for the future.

If your goal is try and make the playoffs as soon as possible, then try and keep Artest, hell keep Bibby too then keep 'em all. Sign more mid-level guys. Maybe make the post season as a 7 or 8 seed next year. My problem with this approach is we end up drafting in the mid teens for the next 3-4 years.

The other approach is identify who on your team is/hopefully will be a key piece in 3-4 years when you plan to make a serious title run, then dump everyone else for young talent(key pieces or trade value), draft picks and/or cap space.

I'd much rather be very bad for a couple of years and make a serious run than linger on in mediocrity.

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Playoffs, or Championship?
I think that this is the point that gets lost too easily.  What is the goal of this franchise?

If the goal is to GET to the playoffs annually, for whatever reason (validating ticket prices, getting support for a new arena, etc.) then you pretty much have to stay the course.

But if the ultimate goal is to win a Championship, then some hard decisions have to be made.  More likely than not, the franchise will have to take a step BACKWARD before taking two steps FORWARD.

If New York offers Lee, the Kings would HAVE to trade Artest, right?  If you don't agree with that, then you probably fall into the "just make it to the playoffs" category, and won't be swayed by less than a SUPERSTAR in return.  I don't know what to say, I can't help you.

I'm ALL for blowing up this team, and have been for 2 years now, but a D.Lee-type trade aside, Artest's value will probably be maximized in a S&T this off-season.

I also don't see the point in trading Bibby for $0.50 on the dollar, unless you're getting that value elsewhere (i.e. dumping hydra-salary in the process), because he may also have more value next year when he's an ending contract AS WELL AS a playoff-proven scorer.

The craziest part of this post, for me personally, is that I'm been looking at trade scenarios for the better part of two years, and yet when I think about it I'd rather do pretty much what GP is doing, even though I've been going crazy waiting for something to happen.

Here's hoping that the right trade comes up sooner rather than later.

by smgmatt on Dec 6, 2007 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
I think the main question is, if Martin is a part of the Kings future(which we all agree yes), is Artest a good fit together him to be the centerpieces of this team? What type of team would you try to build around Martin and Artest? Are those two alone enough to be your franchise players are do you have to find a way to bring in another second-tier star?  

by Ball in Cup on Dec 6, 2007 11:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
i'd like to see martin and artest become the best iron fist/velvet glove combo in the league. there aren't many teams that have two players that bring it how they each respectively do

this team is a consistent double double big + maturity away from doing damage as it stands, so we're not in that much trouble, right?

Whether your dominating the playground, the last one to leave the gym, or your big time like Mike Bibby...

by CrownUs93 on Dec 6, 2007 7:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Keep Artest?
In a perfect world I would agree Crown. The problem this isn't a perfect world and their games, despite the potential for it to mesh better, just doesn't. I'm not sure what the Kings could do about that. I'm not so sure that you wait it to out to make sure that it should either.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 6, 2007 8:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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