Give Me Hibbert
by Tom Ziller on Mar 29, 2007 8:29 AM PDT
in NBA Draft
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There's a lot of time between now and the NBA draft. Like, three months. Hell, there's two months before we know what draft pick the Kings will have in the first round.
But I know who I'm going to beg for if the Kings don't miraculously earn a top three choice. And that's Roy Hibbert.
Hibbert is the 7'2 20-year-old monster anchoring Georgetown into the Final Four. I think everyone who cares about basketball saw UNC-GU last Sunday, and I'm pretty sure everyone will be watching him take on Greg Oden's Ohio State this weekend. So you already know something about dude's game.
Let me argue the case on why he'd be a perfect fit for Sacramento, then.
He's a big man. The Kings need a big man. This is a given. Brad Miller's basketball apoptosis is on the calendar. Kenny Thomas is one of the most limited offensive players in the league. Shareef Abdur-Rahim is good for 25 minutes of silky iso offense a night, and nothing more. Corliss Williamson is a veteran's exception for a contender. Justin Williams is so raw offensively it's difficult to advocate serious November and December playing time. The best reasonably priced big this summer will be Mikki Moore.
Unless he pulls a major trade for an athletic or otherwise terrific frontcourt, Geoff Petrie must draft a big. This season was a failure for a couple reasons: poor shooting, poor rebounding, poor defense. Why is this all a problem? There's no center on this team. Miller hasn't been a decent rebounder, defender, or inside scorer for a couple years. Shockingly, most teams depend on a center to rebound the ball, anchor the defense and provide shotblocking, and score at a high percentage. Miller's calling card to All-Star status was money shooting and incredible passing/playmaking. (The passing was there this season, even if the turnovers have escalated. But the shot is gone. His eFG% is .444, and his eFG is .385 on jumpers. Last season, those numbers were .513 and .475. That is a magnificent drop.)
Miller is still a positive force on the team as a whole - his net on/off is the best among rotation players. The team's offense is about 2.7% better when he's on the floor, and this season the team defense has even been about 3.4% better (because there is no backup center). He's clearly valuable with respect to his passing, his table-setting, his screens, his somewhat clever team defense, and his unhoggish offense.
But he can't be a winning team's starting center, I'm convinced, unless he has an incredibly studtastic frontcourt running mate who can rebound and block shots and man up on opposing bigs and score down low.
Enter Roy Hibbert.
He's one of the most efficient offensive players in the nation. He knows when to take shots, and he doesn't play out of his element. He's shooting .670 this season (!), he gets to the line frequently, where he hits about 70% of his foul shots. (Good for a big.) He's not a turnover machine. He passes the ball well enough. He plays on the second-best offensive team in college basketball, which suggests he's fairly good at the little things, as well. He's a tremendous offensive rebounder. And he does it all in the Princeton offense.
On defense, he's one of the top shotblockers in the nation. He's a strong defensive rebounder. he takes up a ton of space. Georgetown has a top 20 defense, and he's the anchor. He fouls a bit much, which wouldn't be as big an issue in the unNazi NBA.
He's not going to take his defender out on the floor. He's not going to sling backdoor bounce passes to Kevin Martin. He's not going to take one three-pointer, let alone two a game.
He's the polar opposite of Brad Miller.
So imagine a Miller/Hibbert frontcourt - Brad back to his more natural PF position and Hibbert in the middle. Hibbert knows the Princeton, so whatever new coach (?) came in could rely heavily on it with other Carril vets like Mike Bibby, Miller, and Martin. If the pairing doesn't work as planned, you've got a stud center for the next 10 years, a guy whose post game is still developing despite being one of the best centers in college.
Yes, I'd love to have Greg Oden. But Hibbert is a more realistic dream, and one that can bring glory just the same. DraftExpress and NBADraft.net have Hibbert going at #8, ESPN's Chad Ford has him at #12.
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Re: Give Me Hibbert
Hibbert's a tough call, he could be a real find or a complete bustola. You can't teach 7-2 but I don't think you can teach aggression at the NBA level (see Brendon Hayward).
by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Mar 29, 2007 10:03 AM PDT reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
If Hibbert does decide to go the lazy route, though - yes, he could be a bust.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Re: Give Me Hibbert
I still feel bad for the Clippers and the Wizards.
With the no. 1 pick in the NBA Draft the Los Angeles Clippers select... MICHAEL OLOWOKANDI!!!
With the no. 1 pick in the NBA Draft the Washington Wizards select... KWAME BROWN!!!
Gives me the shudders.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Oden grabs 9.5 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.
Can we do a profile on Yi Jianlian as well? He played quite well for the Guandong Tigers but he may be a power forward rather than a true center.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
He's top 20 in offensive rebounding, and among the top 25% in the nation in defensive rebounding. Oden is higher, but not by a ton.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Mar 29, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
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Re: Give Me Hibbert
by chupacabra on Mar 29, 2007 12:43 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
P.S. I think julian wright (if you believe chad ford) may determine how high guys like hibbert go. If he returns to UK and I dont think anybody knows what he will do till he announces then i think alot of GM's will take a risk on a guy like hibbert without Wright available. Plus personal workouts will impress as the Orlando Camp and a few other things.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by chupacabra on Mar 29, 2007 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
May i point out two of the upcoming Centers in the nba. Andris Biedrins of the Dubs & Andrew Bynum of the lake show. Biedrins could play from the first tip that much was obvious. Even thought the warriors have done a historically bad job drafting and developing talent. Biedrins has serious talent and displayed it from the opening tip. He's the type of kid who succeeds anywhere.
Bynum is different by contrast. His game was very raw and he was very young. I remember every pundit on draft day laughting @ the lakers. 2 years later not a single person who thought the lakers passed up getting a more ready available player has commented on that. It's funny how organizations like the lakers are hated on because they took risks nobody else was willing to take.
Anyway my point is simple. Talent is talent is talent. The draft lottery will determine alot of who goes where. It's a given oden & durant will come out. Durant because of the shoe deal and Oden because he might not get a chance to make that kind of money if he gets hurt continuously in college. You are correct that the kings will probably get a pick in the 8-11 range. This will probably keep hibbert from dropping to them. However it never hurt anybody to dream. Discussing what this team needs & finding the player to actually fill a void are 2 entirely different things.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by chupacabra on Mar 29, 2007 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Your point about age is correct. Biedrins is only a year older (he was 18 when he entered the league hardly an old man) but he seems much more mature. Last but not least we agree that Tall Talent is better than Small Talent. It's why Dallas has 60 wins & San Antone/Phoenix have 50 +. But great talent isnt replacable. No amount of mike bibby's can replace a Steve Nash for instance.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by chupacabra on Mar 29, 2007 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
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Re: Give Me Hibbert
When LeBron shoots 199 times (including 3 games of 35 or more IN A ROW) in a six game period all with the intent of "getting his" while dishing out a meager 16 assists during the same period, let me know.
The most points LeBron has scored this year is 41 in a win over Detroit. The most points Kobe has scored this year is 65 against a young Portland team that is still another year or two away from making the playoffs; barring the acquisition of some veterans that will help the youngsters.
Kobe has had many games of 40 or more this year including two 60 point games, five 50 point games, and seven 40 point games. Kobe has taken 1,449 shots this season. LeBron has taken 1,436 shots this season, but has played 3 more games than Kobe. The same Kobe who can jack up 109 shots in a 3 game period.
Kobe's reputation of being selfish comes from years of battling with Shaq as being the number one offensive presence on the Lakers. Not to mention all the games where he's tried to "get his" much like this season.
What pisses me off is that Kobe has those great scoring games the last two weeks and everyone goes crazy over it like it's some sort of accomplishment without even looking at the fact that not one of the teams he scored those points against are a lock for the playoffs.
Meanwhile you have a player like Allen Iverson who's had to deal with the same selfish stigma his entire career (without people thinking - hey, maybe he HAS to score that many points or jack up that many shots because management has done a PISS POOR job of building talent around him) who's had to deal with being traded to a new system with Denver, dealing with a new coach, dealing with co-existing (as they like to call it) with Carmelo Anthony and two weeks ago he goes out and drops 44 points and 15 assists (one assist less than what Kobe garners during his six game shooting rampage) against one of the best teams in the league (Phoenix) and the Nuggets win by 20+. Not one mention of it anywhere. 44 points (6 shy of the great 50 plataeu which Iverson has reached a couple of times himself in his career) and FIFTEEN ASSISTS against one of the league's best teams.
This is completely off topic, but if somebody can't see how selfish Kobe is they are either a) completely blind, b) in denial or c) a Kobe fanboy who worships Kobe.
Kobe is a great player. I'm not taking anything away from him. But he's more selfish than any player in the league. On some nights, that can be a great thing. But on most nights, it can be a bad thing.
In the playoffs, it'll be a bad thing. Kobe (and Lamar) are one more good to great player away from the Lakers being a contender again (and would be right now had they retained Caron Butler instead of trading him for Kwame Brown). And as someone who cannot stand the Lakers, that scares me.
But they won't be a contender if Kobe keeps playing the way he has been. Teams are eventually going to figure out ways to slow him down (like Memphis did, ask Kobe, the defense threw him off), and beat the Lakers. There's no way Kobe can get away with scoring 50 or even 40 plus over a 5-6 game period in the playoffs. He's going to have to start playing team ball again.
Will he? We'll see.
by bballblog on Mar 30, 2007 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
The most points LeBron has scored this year is 41 in a win over Detroit. The most points Kobe has scored this year is 65 against a young Portland team that is still another year or two away from making the playoffs; barring the acquisition of some veterans that will help the youngsters.
Ok 1st off when lebron scores 65 let me know. 2nd when mike brown asks lebron publicly to score more points let me know. 3rd who else scores consistently for the lakers? Lamar Odom only scored 3 pts vs the grizzlies. But he had 16 boards & 13 assists. Kobe was off but he wasnt the only 1 vs the grizz.
Look you like iverson & that's fine. He didnt get enough credit for that game. But you gotta be kidding me? Allen Iverson wasnt selfish? Isnt this the same iverson who couldnt play with stackhouse hughes webber and a host of role players because he needed the ball for 16 seconds every possession? Also i dont remember iverson hitting 50% of his shots for those 50 pt games. You dont shoot a career 41% if you arent clanging a few every now & again.
Well i dont care if the caron butler trade worked out or against LA. I know 1 thing. The way he played there was 1 reason he was traded. I'm always amused @ ppl who say 'look he's an all star in DC.' Just cuz he's an all star in DC dont mean he was in LA. He played like crap all year long. But thats ok too. It's not like anybody remembers that year for the lakers except me. Butler played like shit and Kobe had a typical Kobe year. Odom was beat up from playing the 4 which was probably the reason they traded butler in the 1st place. The trade may have been unequal but that doesnt mean they got fleeced. If the lakers were winning 50 games with a healthier roster I doubt this would be brought up all the time. But they arent & ill leave laker fans to cry about that.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Let you know what? LeBron scored 56 two years ago. That's not that far off.
LeBron plays team ball. Why? Because it's the only way he knows how to play. He only scores that many if he HAS to. Does he force up some bad shots? Yeah, but not nearly as many as Kobe. Not even close.
[[2nd when mike brown asks lebron publicly to score more points let me know.]]
Mike Brown has asked LeBron to be more aggressive on offense. That's why LeBron has scored more since the All-Star break. There's a HUGE difference between "score more points" and what Kobe has been doing.
[[3rd who else scores consistently for the lakers? Lamar Odom only scored 3 pts vs the grizzlies. But he had 16 boards & 13 assists. Kobe was off but he wasnt the only 1 vs the grizz.]]
Lamar Odom is the Lakers' 2nd best option offensively for the Lakers. But when the Lakers were winning (remember they were 13 games over .500 in the middle of January) their players were healthy, Kobe was playing team ball and EVERYONE was contributing. Some nights Bynum would have a great offensive game, some nights Lamar would, it was a team effort.
But the Lakers have all their players back now and that's how they should be playing. Instead, it's become the Kobe show. Even when Larry Hughes was out for awhile LeBron didn't take over like Kobe has. And now the Lakers are healthy and have all their pieces back and Kobe is shooting like the world will end if he doesn't. That's not selfish?
[[Look you like iverson & that's fine. He didnt get enough credit for that game. But you gotta be kidding me? Allen Iverson wasnt selfish? Isnt this the same iverson who couldnt play with stackhouse hughes webber and a host of role players because he needed the ball for 16 seconds every possession?]]
Iverson played with Stackhouse when Stackhouse was a young punk and was drafted the year prior to Iverson and wanted to be "the man". That duo was NEVER going to work out. Iverson with a healthy Webber would have been SCARY to watch but they still would need more pieces to the puzzle. Iguodola, Korver and Dalembeart alone weren't going to cut it. As far as Iverson and Hughes goes, they spent 100 games on the same team together. Hughes wasn't the same player that garnered that huge contract from the Cavaliers in 2005. Philadelphia management didn't give that duo enough time to gel. Larry Brown is on record saying they built the team around Iverson offensively for a reason - they got a bunch of roleplayers (Snow, Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutombo, etc.) so Iverson could be the star offensively and the other players would do the dirty work defensively.
Let me know when Mitch Kupchak or Phil Jackon is on record saying the same thing about Kobe. Because clearly that team isn't built around Kobe jacking up 35+ shots a game. And if it is it's completely flawed because they were playing team ball before and the Lakers were THIRTEEN games over .500, like I said.
[[Also i dont remember iverson hitting 50% of his shots for those 50 pt games. You dont shoot a career 41% if you arent clanging a few every now & again.]]
But his shooting percentage goes UP if he doesn't have to take so many. It's common knowledge.
Give Iverson a full year alongside Carmelo Anthony and I guarantee you it'll be the best season he's ever had, in his prime or not.
If Iverson was all about himself he would have gotten himself traded to a defensive minded team like the Bulls where he could have been the #1 option every game and not have to defer to another superstar. No, he got traded to Denver because he wanted to play alongside another player who was capable of picking up the scoring load.
Meanwhile, Kobe got Shaq traded out of LA while Shaq still had a few good years left in the tank (and Shaq STILL could have coasted in LA and let Kobe do everything and been fine for the playoffs), and you don't think Kobe is selfish?
Please.
by bballblog on Mar 30, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Dont think Kobe had the power to make the lakers do that. 1 he was a free agent and 2 shaq was under contract. THE LAKERS CHOSE TO TRADE SHAQ FOR WHATEVER REASON. That was Jerry Buss' decision not kobe's. This is what I dont get. How can kobe make the lakers trade shaq? Saying he wont return? Maybe im wrong but i doubt Kobe needed the extra 40 mil from the lakers if he was going to get 95 mil from the clippers. To me that's an idle threat kobe haters often use to gloss over the reality of the situation. Shaq had burned his bridges within the laker organization. After all they traded him not kobe. I cant find a single laker fan who actually misses shaq. Which i find ironic in a way. Oh, apparently you missed the 8 billion articles that have talked about Phil telling kobe to shoot more after that 7 game losing streak.
The reality is that Shaq is a big baby when he feels his power threatened. He knew he wasnt going to get a big deal after the contract that expired 2 seasons ago in Miami. Not in LA anyway. Only a fool would have payed Shaq 20 mil for 5 seasons the way Mickey Arison and Pat Riley chose to. Then Pat Riley in his infinite wisdom chose to compare Shaq to Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Right a man who @ least dedicated himself to staying in shape vs a man who has ALWAYS relied on his natural talent. The same man who said training camp was to get into shape. What a great comparison that was. The only comparison I see to shaq is charles barkley. An immensely talented big talking know it all who is loved by many reporters.
Anyway i wont defend kobe or the lakers anymore in this. I feel that ppl who dislike kobe will use whatever rationale they feel is appropriate to discredit his accomplishments. Which is fine dont like him. Dont claim to me ,however, that he got shaq traded as a fact. Thats an opinion and not necessarily an accurate one.
The whole larry hughes situation i think had as much to do with LB as it did with Bubba Chuck. Jerry Stackhouse is not a punk. And if jerry stackhouse was a young punk what did that make Bubba? His younger godfather? He may not have gotten along with Bubba but he isnt a punk. Among other things anyway. At least we arent talking about pwactiss anymore. I dont know if iverson can make that adjustment long term. He says he can and @ times he shows he is willing. Who knows over the long term if it will work with melo. What i know is that everybody has different criteria of what works. You choose to say kobe is selfish and I dont.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Yep, wouldn't want any unsubstantiated opinions floating around the site eh? Well, unless it's regarding the Maloofs involvement in personnel decisions...
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by chupacabra on Mar 30, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Probably cause at the time they'd risk losing Kobe?
[[That was Jerry Buss' decision not kobe's. This is what I dont get.]]
Whether Kobe went to Jerry and said "Look, Jerry, you trade Shaq or I'm gone." or he didn't, do you honestly think after the blow up in 03-04 that Kobe was going to stay with the Lakers anymore if Shaq was retained? Jerry knew - much like most of the observing sports world - that if he kept Shaq, there was a great chance Kobe would leave. Whether Kobe came out and said it is a moot point - Shaq is gone and you can bet your ass it's cause Jerry knew what he risked if he didn't trade Shaq.
Again, it's quite possible Kobe never even said a word to Jerry. But sometimes words don't need to be spoken.
Anyone can see that if Jerry doesn't trade Shaq there's a good chance Kobe leaves. And there's quite a few credible sources on record that Kobe was serious about signing with the Clippers.
Ask yourself this: Would Kobe remain with the Lakers had Buss decided to keep Shaq as well? If you can honestly, 100% say yes, you're lying.
[[To me that's an idle threat kobe haters often use to gloss over the reality of the situation. Shaq had burned his bridges within the laker organization. After all they traded him not kobe. I cant find a single laker fan who actually misses shaq. Which i find ironic in a way.]]
It's quite ironic since Shaq was so washed up and overrated he went on to win a title while Kobe has scored a bunch of points. So far, the Lakers have been on the losing end of that deal.
[[Oh, apparently you missed the 8 billion articles that have talked about Phil telling kobe to shoot more after that 7 game losing streak.]]
I'd like to see one of those where Phil said "Please shoot 30+ a game, alienate your young teammates and make sure you get at least 50". Like I said, there's a big difference between "score more" and "get yours". But apparently you aren't seeing it.
[[The reality is that Shaq is a big baby when he feels his power threatened. He knew he wasnt going to get a big deal after the contract that expired 2 seasons ago in Miami.]]
I don't think it was about getting a "big deal". It's funny how you paint this picture that Kobe isn't desperate for money yet Shaq is? What facts do you have to back this up?
[[Not in LA anyway. Only a fool would have payed Shaq 20 mil for 5 seasons the way Mickey Arison and Pat Riley chose to.]]
And they WON A CHAMPIONSHIP. And lord knows how much money they've made as a result of that championship since then.
And please don't say Shaq only won one because of Wade. Wade has been out what, the last 18 games? What's their record since then? 13-5? Surely, Shaq is contributing to some of those wins.
[[Then Pat Riley in his infinite wisdom chose to compare Shaq to Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Right a man who @ least dedicated himself to staying in shape vs a man who has ALWAYS relied on his natural talent. The same man who said training camp was to get into shape. What a great comparison that was.]]
What the fuck does Shaq staying in shape have to do with anything? Shaq is one of those players that can just turn it on and dominate on any single given night. And if him resting and coasting the whole season and turning it on in the playoffs wins championships, why mess with that success?
[[Anyway i wont defend kobe or the lakers anymore in this. I feel that ppl who dislike kobe will use whatever rationale they feel is appropriate to discredit his accomplishments. Which is fine dont like him.]]
You're the one who has assumed that I don't like Kobe. It's just to me, I'm NOT impressed by him scoring 50 in a row against medicore competition. I'm sorry. I'm just not. If he does that against the Suns, Spurs, Mavericks and Pistons in a row, I'll call him one of the best of all time. If he does that against the Cavaliers, Heat, Jazz and Nuggets in a row, I'll at the very least be impressed.
Forcing shots to get 50 or 60 isn't impressive, especially against medicore competition. If Kobe comes out and drops 50 and dishes out 12-15 dimes against a top team, I'll recognize that as a great accomplishment whether I "like" him or not.
[[Dont claim to me ,however, that he got shaq traded as a fact. Thats an opinion and not necessarily an accurate one.]]
Ah, so clearly, after all this, you fall into the "C" part of the category I mentioned earlier. Remind me why you're a Kings fan again?
[[The whole larry hughes situation i think had as much to do with LB as it did with Bubba Chuck.]]
Hughes was only around for 100 games. That's hardly enough time to judge whether it would have worked out or not. And I'm a Hughes fan as well.
[[Jerry Stackhouse is not a punk.]]
He isn't now. He's grown up. He was.
[[What i know is that everybody has different criteria of what works. You choose to say kobe is selfish and I dont.]]
I've yet to see any really evidence from your end that he's not. But you're not the first and you won't be the last. Instead, people choose to talk about how I hate Kobe. Whether I hate or like Kobe has nothing to do with it. I think he's one of the top 5, if not top 3 players in the game today. But there's no denying he's selfish in my eyes.
by bballblog on Mar 30, 2007 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
This is where we disagree among other things. I think kobe would have walked regardless if he really wanted to walk. Ultimately he had to decide where he wanted to make his legacy. That whole 'laker for life' nonsense was just 1 example.
Thats an interesting point. Neither guy 'needs' money. Both really got most of what they need by the end of their 1st contracts. Of course they live better than that so their 2nd contract set them for life. Here's the deal though. Kobe is a much more driven guy and when you read/sift through all the fine print it's pretty evident. After kobe's 50 game vs new orleans Byron Scott spent time talking to some LA paper about how kobe would ask questions about the Showtime team in the 80's. That @ 18 he could see how driven kobe was. Now Shaq may love the game like that but I dont remember reading anything like that about him. If i did i would read it. That's just part of what & who kobe is i guess.
Well he didnt. He did it vs the 'crappy' teams so to speak. Well if you liked kobe you wouldnt spend this much time arguing about the validity of his accomplishments. You wouldnt feel the need to compare them to LBJ or Alley I. Like everyone else i think doing better against better competition is important.
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by Chris The Greek on Mar 29, 2007 12:56 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
by PissedOffGorilla on Mar 29, 2007 1:25 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Bibby, Martin...hopefully we get to keep our pick and get lucky.
Championships any one??
Re: Give Me Hibbert
Chad Ford: He's a good fit for the Bulls. He can score in the paint and is a good passer out of the post. At 7-foot-2, he also will be disruptive defensively. However, he's not a dominant low-post scorer or rebounder, and I don't think he's ready to play right away, so he's not a cure-all for the Bulls. I think most of the guys who would be will be off the board before the Bulls pick.
Interesting take on hibbert.
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