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Can Ron Artest Fix the Defense?

(This is incredibly long. Je suis desole a l'avance.)

We joked last night about Mike Bibby's inability (through little fault of his own, actually) to fix the Kings' whoa-ful defense. (As in, 'whoa, that's a bad defense!')

But can even Ron Artest fix it?

Let's look at the three wings who have started most often for the Kings this season: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, and Artest. Is Artest's defense truly an upgrade?

Here is the total season-to-date defensive on-off for each.

           Min   %Min   DRtg-ON    DRtg-OFF    Net
Artest     747    43%     106.3       111.5   +5.2
Martin     702    40%     112.8       106.7   -6.1
Salmons   1298    75%     109.8       107.5   -2.3

Based on raw defense on-off numbers, Artest makes a difference. The defense has been league-average when he's in the game and absolutely terrible when he's out. Conversely, these numbers say the opposite of Martin. Salmons (likely by virtue of so many minutes) has bad numbers when he's playing and when he's not.

But this is just the surface. Let's dive deeper.

Where are Sacramento's main defensive deficiencies? We can look at this two ways: Through the four factors (which will show which specific ways in which the Kings suck on defense) and through positional analysis (which will show at what positions the Kings' defense sucks most).

First, the four factors:

Defensive eFG:    .508 (#25 of 30)
Defensive TO-r:   17.5 (# 5 of 30)
Defensive Reb%:  70.7% (#26 of 30)
Defensive FT-r:   24.9 (#21 of 30)

So, in order, the problems are: Defensive rebounding, opponent shooting, fouling. Turnover creation is a big plus for this team.

Let's see which players' defensive rebounding is worse (per-40 minutes) than the league average for their position. (And we'll omit Justin Williams and Mike Bibby since they've barely played.)

Player    DReb/Min   lgAvg     Net
Miller         7.0     7.6    -0.6
Hawes          6.4     7.6    -1.2
Moore          5.2     6.9    -1.7
Thomas         6.1     6.9    -0.8
Artest         4.6     4.8    -0.2
Salmons        4.1     4.8    -0.7
Garcia         4.2     3.9    +0.3
Martin         4.4     3.9    +0.5
Jones          5.4     3.9    +1.5
Douby          3.2     3.2    +0.0
Udrih          3.3     3.2    +0.1

Clearly, the rebounding problem is in the frontcourt, particularly with Mikki Moore and Spencer Hawes. Really, only Dahntay Jones (in street clothes last night) and Martin are plus-rebounders at their positions. (I have Salmons listed as a small forward and Francisco Garcia as a shooting guard; 82games lists them the opposite due to a one-inch height advantage for Garcia. Clearly Salmons is a SF in the Kings system, though.)

Now, let's look to shot defense, the second major problem area for the Kings. By position:

Pos    D-eFG   LgAvg      Net
C       .532    .506    +.026
PF      .500    .490    +.010
SF      .506    .496    +.010
SG      .505    .487    +.018
PG      .489    .486    +.003

The Kings boast defensive strength at no position. Point guard is the most promising, and duties there are shared between Udrih, Quincy Douby, Martin and Garcia (in that order).

We've established the team's centers and power forwards hurt the defense more than the wings/backcourt, due to a combination of rebounding issues and shot defense. So what in the world does this have to do with our judgments on Artest's defensive impact?

This is a look which poor-defending teammates (based on the above) our three top-flight wings play with the most. (These numbers omit the past week, but should translate well nonetheless.)

Player      %+Brad   %+Mikki   %+Hawes
Artest         80%       61%       12%
Martin         75%       60%       10%
Salmons        73%       57%       14%

Basically, all three have played about equal time with the team's worst defenders (Hawes, Miller and Moore, in order). The marked difference in the wings' defensive on-off cannot be explained by disparities in the defensive talent level of teammates... because they're basically playing with the same teammates.

There's one more avenue to consider: Strength of opponents. Martin and Artest have only shared the court for 274 minutes this season (not counting last night), which is about 40% of each's total minutes. Martin had eight games without Artest, and Artest had 10 games without Martin. By looking at those mutually exclusive games, we can judge whether one's faced better offenses on the whole.

           Games       Avg Opp-ORtg
Artest        10              106.6
Martin         8              108.7

Sacramento faced teams which were two points per 100 possessions better in Martin's no-Artest games than in Artest's no-Martin games. So if Martin and Artest were defensive equals (which they are not), we'd expect Martin's on-off to be skewed by some portion of 4.2 points per 100 possessions (Martin's disadvantage + Artest's advantage) in the bad direction. That portion should be about 50% -- roughly Martin's total games came without Artest and vice versa. So Martin's defensive on-off should be adjusted 2.1 points per 100 possessions towards equilibrium based just on the schedule differences their injuries/suspension caused. Salmons, who has played the whole season, would have an average opponent offensive rating near Artest's (which is roughly league average). Salmons' defensive numbers, thus, have not been effected by a schedule disparity.

When you add it all up, Artest is a much better overall defender than Salmons or Martin (and Salmons would seem to be slightly better than Martin). However, the issue is nearly moot: Wing defense isn't the problem here. Frontcourt rebounding and frontcourt shot defense are the central issues holding the Kings back for being a better defensive team. The difference between Artest and the other wing on the defensive end is smaller than the difference between Sacramento's bigs' defense and league average. In other words, Artest is not so good defensively he can make up for the frontcourt's faults.

This team, as presently constructed, cannot be a good defensive team, Ron or not. The difference between Ron's defense and the defense of his would-be replacements is not as large as we think. Consider this a vote to let Ron-Ron fly... somewhere else.

(All statistics from 82games, Knickerblogger, and Doug Steele.)

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What kind of bear is best?

Ok, just kidding. But before we let Ron-Ron fly away...

In other words, Artest is not so good defensively he can make up for the frontcourt's faults.
What if Artest was part of the frontcourt? Do we have any decent statistical analysis available of Ron's work at the 4 defensively?

I dunno, if he is an adequate defender at the 4, and you aren't losing a lot by moving him from the 3, AND he is forced to work offensively in the post more as a 4...well, could that make him a piece of the puzzle long-term?

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Jan 17, 2008 2:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This is a good question
I was surprised that Artest is a slightly below avg. rebounder at the 3. Would he be even worse at the 4? Of course Moore is worse at the 4 than Artest is at the 3, so if he could match Moore's rebounding at the 4 and defend better it'd be a plus.

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 17, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing
The "Artest at the 4" idea would be better if he was paired with a big-time shotblocker/rebounder at the 5. Brad has been decent this year, but I'm not sure he fits the bill long-term.
Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Jan 17, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not Enough Basket Balls To Go Around
Artest at the 4 doesn't work unless he is ready to be a guy who just works the top of the key pick and roll, sets picks and gets offensive rebounds. In Reggie's system, that is what the PF does on offense. Moore is not handling the ball all night. If Artest is the PF, then that takes the ball out of Martin's, Miller's, Salmon's and Udrih's/Bibby's hands. It won't work that way. Artest is better at the SF. You could put someone else into the PF position on offense in that case such as Salmons or Martin but again, they are not out there to be just setting picks and looking for open spots in the paint. There's only one basketball to go around. I don't think Ron Ron is willing to be a PF on offense in Theus' system.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Jan 18, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay my quick thoughts (after others were deleted)
Okay I think the point that Artest isn't holding this team back is an important one. After all this team is essentially any better where it's lacking: frontcourt defense & rebounding. I would argue he helps improve the rebounding marginally, but not to make this team a championship contender.

Where this team needs to move forward is in their salary structure. Trading Bibby & Artest. Moving Mikki Moore if possible. Exploring Brad Miller being moved. And of course giving more time to Hawes and Williams to see what kind of impact they could bring potentially. It's above & beyond to break this team apart. Petrie may have been waiting for the right kind of deal, but that's only sidebar covering a mistake on Petrie's part. He doesn't have impact stars to trade, and thus won't receive that in return. It's about time he makes trades that helps the team financially, and for the future. Get to it Geoff.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 17, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Blowing up the team
I would agree if all you had to worry about was the long term success of the team. Trade the guys who won't be here five years from now, give the young guys more time, and see what happens down the road with cash and picks.

The problem is this is also a business for the owners. How many people are going to come watch a team with Shawes as the starting center and no one backing him up? If I owned the Kings . . . well actually if I owned the Kings, I'd sell them and buy a mansion in Cabo, but that's beside the point. If owned the Kings, I'd trade Artest as soon as possible for the best PF I could get. I'd trade Bibby for cap space/picks/a young but unproven PG. I would not trade Miller until I knew whether or not Shawes could give me quality minutes.

Artest needs to go, because he seems nearly uncoachable--unless Theus is telling him, "Every time you touch the ball do your best Kobe impersonation. Especially if there is a triple tem on you." His ball hogging behavior kills the flow of the team on offense.

I would trade Bibby because I need the cash and I need to know if Beno is my point guard of the future or a very good backup.

I would not trade Miller because I need to put butts in seats, which requires either a competitive team or at least one that is fun to watch. Shawes has got another year or two to reach that. Plus, if Shawes is going to be a good player we could ruin him by bringing him in too soon and having him lose confidence. Based on what we've seen from Garcia, K-Mart, Douby, etc, it is not realistic to expect someone like Shawes to succeed this year.

by SavageBeast on Jan 17, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cont.
Also, why trade Mikki? Do you really want K-9 on the floor that badly. If we move Mikki we have Williams and . . . at power forward? K-9? Please no. The ghost of Reef past? Every time I see Mikki drop a pass or a rebound, I think. At least I'm not watching K-9.

by SavageBeast on Jan 17, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Power Forwards
I don't get why everyone is so high on Williams. What exactly has he done in a game situation that makes you all think that giving him more minutes will be a good thing for this team? He's a guy that has never found his niche on the court and has never racked up many minutes as he bounced around the league.

To me, he's just another head on the Hydra. He can replace Brad Miller there, because at least Brad is showing a lot of effort and heart this season, and his numbers are decent.

I'd like us to get a power forward who can rebound, defend, and post up down low. Then Mikki can come off the bench as an energy guy.

I don't think getting rid of Mikki is any kind of solution, at least until we can manage a serious upgrade at his postition. And I don't think Williams is it.

Don't make me come in there!

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 17, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Answer
I'm not sure so many people are "high" on Justin Williams, as they would like to see him get a bit more PT to make a decision.

I mean, the guy averaged 16.5 rebounds per 48 last season, which was 10th in the league amongst all players.  This season, he's at 20.5 rebounds per 48, which is second best.

For a team that needs rebounding and athleticism in the post, those are numbers that look somewhat appealing.  And maybe it's just anecdotal evidence with no basis in fact, but when Williams plays, he always seems to play well.

I'd just rather get a feel for what he can bring to the team on a regular basis than from a retread like Mikki Moore.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Jan 17, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yup.
agreed. you beat me to it otis.

by kingsfaninjapan on Jan 17, 2008 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally we agree on something Otis.
Lots of teams find playing time for high energy guys who rebound, block shots and create their own offense off of dunks and put-backs. I still don't understand the reluctance of both Musselman and Theus to make the move to Williams when they are getting out rebounded and out hustled in the paint.

Mikki Moore put up 2 point, 2 rebounds and 2 steals in 30 minutes of play last night. Now I know Chris Bosh is good but 11-12 from the field for 32 points and 9 rebounds is ridiculous. Did Moore even try to play defense? And what happened every time the Kings doubled Bosh? Toronto buried a three. I can't imagine that Williams would have allowed 32 points and I KNOW that Williams would have had double digit rebound numbers if he played 30 minutes. Give the kid a shot.    

We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Jan 17, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We agree occasionally
I think our quota is twice per NBA season. :)

This is really a no-brainer. Mikki Moore is a known quantity, Justin is not.  So why not give the kid a bit more run? If we were fighting for a playoff spot, maybe it's a different story.

I'd have to think there is something going on in practice that's driving Theus crazy, similar to Muss last year, to keep Justin off the court.  Maybe it's the free throws, maybe he just can't grasp Theus' offensive concept, I don't know.

Disclaimer: I am anti-Bibby.

by otis29 on Jan 18, 2008 6:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

3-Wil
For one, he hasn't bounced around the league. This is only his second year, and he was a rookie with the Kings last year. And as a rookie, he put up 15 PPG, 14 RPG, 1.8 BPG per 40 minutes. For me, I wouldn't say I was high on him. But I would like to see him get some type of substantial minutes. Just to see what he can do. His strengths are our weaknesses. Rebounding and shot blocking. That was what he was in college, and based on his per 40 minute average (that's all we can go off at this point), he's still that type of player. Yet he still doesn't get any PT. In the PT he does get, he cleans up the glass like Windex. He can't be a hydra head until he gets significant minutes and puts out insignificant production. It's like saying Kevin Martin would be junk based on his stats from his rookie season when he averaged 10 MPG. Giving him playing time exposed him as one of the leagues next great pure scorers. Maybe 3-Wil is one of the next great rebounders in the NBA. All you need to do is take a look at the progression of Ben Wallace.  

by kingsfaninjapan on Jan 17, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My bad
So, yeah, he hasn't bounced. But he had minutes in pre-season, he's been in practices, and Theus still isn't playing him, which tells me, at least, that he's not going to be an upgrade at the position over who's already playing.

He's had garbage minutes recently, and I don't remember ever saying, "hey, wow, this kid can play."

Right now, I think Theus is actually trying to win games and he's using the pieces that he believes will get him there. If he's not giving Williams minutes, I would strongly suspect that there's something the coach is seeing every day in practice that might not be evident to us.

So, I still don't see why you guys are lobbying for him to get more minutes. I've watched every game this season, including pre-season, and I don't see much but potential.

Of course, I'm not that thrilled about Douby, either, but I can be won over if he stops turning over the ball and starts hitting his shot more consistently.

Don't make me come in there!

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 17, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you live in Sacramento
Because I didn't see any pre-season games (and wasn't aware of any way to see them) and I too have League Pass because I don't live in Sac.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 17, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope
I live in Utah. I have DirecTV. Last year when I had League Pass on Comcast, I didn't get the pre-season games, and I was pretty hot about it because my in-laws who have Dish were getting them and I had them before when I had DirecTV before.

So, yeah, I saw all the pre-season games except I think there was one not televised.

Next Friday when the Kings play the Jazz here, I'll be at the game in my purple Kings sweatshirt. I might even have a sign or two. We do this every year, and have even been to a few play-off games back in the day. The Kings have won every game I've attended here. I'm hoping they can keep the streak alive.

Don't make me come in there!

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 17, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
I got comcast so I guess im SOL there.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 17, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep
Comcast's DVRs suck, too. But the Kings don't broadcast in HD. The only HD games we get don't have the Dynamic Duo calling the games.

So if Napear's nickname is Peaches, should we call Jerry Reynolds Herb or Cream?

Don't make me come in there!

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 17, 2008 7:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cream
Cuz the country bumpkin is lighter than a snowflake.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 17, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It Probably Won't Change Your Opinion
But 3-Wil did miss almost the entire preseason due to the police investigation that brought him his nickname. He has been playing catch up since. When your game is as raw as his, missing the preseason is huge.

If we had one, ONE guy on the front line that was athletic and could rebound and block shots then no one would care that Williams is buried at the end of the bench. It is because we so sorely lack in that area that people would like to see him in the game.

It's not about 3-Wil. It's about being tired of watching slow footed guys with no hops man the front line. Can you think of anyone since pre-injury Webber that has had above average athleticism up front? Was Keon Clark our last true shot blocker? That's the cry for Justin Williams. It is a cry of desperation.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 17, 2008 8:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the list
these are the guys who had the best games for their respective teams in all of the kings losses. the only PGs on the list are nash and paul. it's almost all SFs and PFs.

bosh
dunleavy
nocioni
lebron(duh)
stoudemire
dalembert(wow)
KG
carmelo
stevenson
pierce
kenyon martin
kaman
stephen jackson
aldridge
nash
stoudemire
mccants
boozer
lebron
josh howard
duncan
paul

by kingsfaninjapan on Jan 17, 2008 4:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dude
Dude.  Mark Cuban pays people to do statistical analysis full time.  The Kings need to take a hint.  Seriously.

by Carl on Jan 17, 2008 5:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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